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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
450
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:i think he's suggesting ccp should ban people from political parties who conducted a program of industrial murder to kill around twelve milion people, also people who openly espouse the principle that other races are inferior So 12 million bad, 120,000 good? but besides that. But yes his personal views may make him come undone once elected but to refuse him the ability is to discriminate against him, just as he would discriminate against others. could you please point to the program of industrialized murder that you believe equates to the holocaust from any of your examples
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Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1714
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:15:00 -
[92] - Quote
Also he has repeatedly made his "views" relevant to in-game beliefs on these forums, and did so repeatedly until CCP removed them. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Frying Doom
2023
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:15:00 -
[93] - Quote
Axis Raikkonen wrote:Frying Doom wrote: So your suggesting that CCP should ban people in political parties guilty of starting wars of aggression?
Well I suppose that will annoy members of the US republican party, The Australian Liberal Party and UK labour party.
This just in, the war in Iraq is literally the Holocaust. A war of aggression makes the victims as dead as any other. Yes the Holocaust was 100 times larger.
And as usual for Humans we didn't learn the first time so just repeated our mistakes. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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Womyn Power
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
52
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:15:00 -
[94] - Quote
Oy vei if fon gets elected it will be worse then the shoah!! |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
450
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:16:00 -
[95] - Quote
also please identify the precise law you believe makes it illegal to discriminate against someone for espousing neo-nazi views and racist views
any law from anywhere besides the third reich will do |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
741
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:17:00 -
[96] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Either way around it is illegal to discriminate against someone for their political views and frankly even though this may let nut jobs run for things like this it also means that companies like CCP cannot just chose to exclude for instance members of political parties such as labour and conservative while allowing members of Official Monster Raving Loony Party to run.
In many countries, or at least the US, yes, it may be illegal to discriminate against someone for their political views... if you're a business, looking to hire someone. It happens anyway, but that's beside the point. "A business looking to hire someone" is not what's happening here - it's a gathering of players looking to vote for 14 other players to represent them to CCP. If those players decide that the political views of one of the candidates is reason for them to not serve, they're well within their rights to do so.
e: I'm wrong, "political affiliation" is apparently absolutely something a business can discriminate against you for. Doesn't change my point in the slightest. Mynnna for CSM 8 |
Frying Doom
2023
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:18:00 -
[97] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Frying Doom wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:i think he's suggesting ccp should ban people from political parties who conducted a program of industrial murder to kill around twelve milion people, also people who openly espouse the principle that other races are inferior So 12 million bad, 120,000 good? but besides that. But yes his personal views may make him come undone once elected but to refuse him the ability is to discriminate against him, just as he would discriminate against others. could you please point to the program of industrialized murder that you believe equates to the holocaust from any of your examples I am sorry I thought The US, Australian and British Military were classed as industrial institutions, I missed the fact it was a few guys with a couple of beers.
Did they start an illegal war of aggression yes, did 120,000+ people die so far due to that war, yes. Anything else is just adding candy to it so the reality doesn't slap you in the face. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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Frying Doom
2023
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:20:00 -
[98] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Either way around it is illegal to discriminate against someone for their political views and frankly even though this may let nut jobs run for things like this it also means that companies like CCP cannot just chose to exclude for instance members of political parties such as labour and conservative while allowing members of Official Monster Raving Loony Party to run. In many countries, or at least the US, yes, it may be illegal to discriminate against someone for their political views... if you're a business, looking to hire someone. It happens anyway, but that's beside the point. "A business looking to hire someone" is not what's happening here - it's a gathering of players looking to vote for 14 other players to represent them to CCP. If those players decide that the political views of one of the candidates is reason for them to not serve, they're well within their rights to do so. The players yes, VERY yes. If the players don't like it hell yeah we don't vote for the neo-**** scum.
But CCP no. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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Axis Raikkonen
EXPCS Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
52
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:20:00 -
[99] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Either way around it is illegal to discriminate against someone for their political views. Either way around it is illegal to discriminate against someone for their skin color. Either way around it is illegal to discriminate against someone for their ethnicity. Either way around it is illegal to discriminate against someone for their nationality. Either way around it is illegal to discriminate against someone for their sexual orientation. Either way around it is illegal to discriminate against someone for their marital status. Either way around it is illegal to discriminate against someone for their religion.
Political views? Eh, sorry, no. Stupidity isn't a protected characteristic when it comes to discrimination.
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Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1101
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:21:00 -
[100] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:I am sorry I thought The US, Australian and British Military were classed as industrial institutions, I missed the fact it was a few guys with a couple of beers..
If you don't know what he means by "industrialized murder" then you should probably do yourself a favour and stop talking about the Holocaust. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
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Frying Doom
2023
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:21:00 -
[101] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:also please identify the precise law you believe makes it illegal to discriminate against someone for espousing neo-nazi views and racist views
any law from anywhere besides the third reich will do You mean besides, EU law, US law, AU law? We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
741
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:22:00 -
[102] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:also please identify the precise law you believe makes it illegal to discriminate against someone for espousing neo-nazi views and racist views
any law from anywhere besides the third reich will do You mean besides, EU law, US law, AU law?
Please quote exact passages of said laws rather than vague implications that said passages may or may not exist, tia.
Also you'll note that Mr Revedhort has made it onto the final ballot, so CCP is clearly not discriminating against him anyway. Mynnna for CSM 8 |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
450
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:23:00 -
[103] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: The players yes, VERY yes. If the players don't like it hell yeah we don't vote for the neo-**** scum.
But CCP no.
wrong
go ahead, try to find one law in any country anywhere that would support this very dumb idea
i would, of course, start with iceland since that's the one that matters but anywhere will do |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1101
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:23:00 -
[104] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:You mean besides, EU law, US law, AU law?
Specific laws, Frying Doom. You don't get away that easily (also loooooooooool at thinking the EU would protect neonazi anything ever) "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2023
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:24:00 -
[105] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I am sorry I thought The US, Australian and British Military were classed as industrial institutions, I missed the fact it was a few guys with a couple of beers.. If you don't know what he means by "industrialized murder" then you should probably do yourself a favour and stop talking about the Holocaust. You are literally hiding behind scale.
Yes the lets call it old german party as it censors it, went out of their way to exterminate, Jews, Gays, Intellectuals, Communists, and the list goes on, using their military might. The current war is killing a race of people en-mass by going well we want those guys so we will just kill everyone in the area with smart bombs and drones.
The reason may be different an smaller scale but the effect is just the same. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
453
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:26:00 -
[106] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:also please identify the precise law you believe makes it illegal to discriminate against someone for espousing neo-nazi views and racist views
any law from anywhere besides the third reich will do You mean besides, EU law, US law, AU law? us law doesn't at all, EU law doesn't exist in the same sense but many countries in the EU criminalize neo-nazi speech
au law i guarantee doesn't either
go ahead, try to find anything that supports this dumb idea |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
453
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:27:00 -
[107] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: You are literally hiding behind scale.
no
no he's not
there's a reason the holocaust is a much bigger deal than the people who died in combat in wwII
Frying Doom wrote: Yes the lets call it old german party as it censors it, went out of their way to exterminate, Jews, Gays, Intellectuals, Communists, and the list goes on, using their military might. The current war is killing a race of people en-mass by going well we want those guys so we will just kill everyone in the area with smart bombs and drones.
The reason may be different an smaller scale but the effect is just the same.
the holocaust is no different than uncle jim drunkenly falling into the wheat thrasher, just writ large
this is a thing frying doom apparently believes |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1101
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:28:00 -
[108] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:You are literally hiding behind scale.
Yes the lets call it old german party as it censors it, went out of their way to exterminate, Jews, Gays, Intellectuals, Communists, and the list goes on, using their military might. The current war is killing a race of people en-mass by going well we want those guys so we will just kill everyone in the area with smart bombs and drones.
The reason may be different an smaller scale but the effect is just the same.
I'm just going to pretend/hope that you're not such a complete and pathetic waste of oxygen that you're actually devil's advocate trolling in favour of an actual neonazi for a moment.
When "industrialized murder" is used, it's not referring to the "what", it's referring to the "how". Figure that out and you'll figure out why the Holocaust is particularly horrifying even as far as genocides go. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2023
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:28:00 -
[109] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:You mean besides, EU law, US law, AU law? Specific laws, Frying Doom. You don't get away that easily (also loooooooooool at thinking the EU would protect neonazi anything ever) You could have saved me the hassle of re typing, it is in GD atm
But check out the Handbook on European non-discrimination law section 3.5.2 page 81 "The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level of protection against interference.
Similarly, as noted in Chapter 4.11., any interference with the right to free speech in the context of political debate is scrutinised very closely."
So yes the neo-bloody-**** party is protected under EU law. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
453
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:30:00 -
[110] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:You mean besides, EU law, US law, AU law? Specific laws, Frying Doom. You don't get away that easily (also loooooooooool at thinking the EU would protect neonazi anything ever) You could have saved me the hassle of re typing, it is in GD atm But check out the Handbook on European non-discrimination law section 3.5.2 page 81 "The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level of protection against interference. Similarly, as noted in Chapter 4.11., any interference with the right to free speech in the context of political debate is scrutinised very closely." So yes the neo-bloody-**** party is protected under EU law. the government is not allowed to interfere (generally, with neonazis being one glaring exception) with the formation of political parties
organizations, however, are absolutely free to refuse to hire neonazis and racists
try again |
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
453
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:31:00 -
[111] - Quote
you probably can figure out that neonazi parties are not protected from employers discriminating against them under EU law because it's a criminal offense to be a member of the party or espouse its views in most european countries
good work captain laws |
Frying Doom
2023
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:32:00 -
[112] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:You are literally hiding behind scale.
Yes the lets call it old german party as it censors it, went out of their way to exterminate, Jews, Gays, Intellectuals, Communists, and the list goes on, using their military might. The current war is killing a race of people en-mass by going well we want those guys so we will just kill everyone in the area with smart bombs and drones.
The reason may be different an smaller scale but the effect is just the same. I'm just going to pretend/hope that you're not such a complete and pathetic waste of oxygen that you're actually devil's advocate trolling in favour of an actual neonazi for a moment. When "industrialized murder" is used, it's not referring to the "what", it's referring to the "how". Figure that out and you'll figure out why the Holocaust is particularly horrifying even as far as genocides go. No actually I think they are scum and I would happily elbow a few teeth out of a member of that party but I am against discrimination of any variety, so I can hardly say yes people have the right to non-discrimination, except him.
As to the current and past genocides... Well frankly they all suck, it is only the scale that differs and treating any death over any other just because it was a bigger list is just glossing over the fact that a century later we still have learned nothing. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
453
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:33:00 -
[113] - Quote
you're actively defending genocide as no worse than people dying as a result of a war
genocide doesn't "suck", bad posting "sucks" genocide is "an unforgivable crime against humanity" |
Reppyk
Yarrbear Inc. BricK sQuAD.
378
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:35:00 -
[114] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Please quote exact passages of said laws rather than vague implications that said passages may or may not exist, tia. HS but : We have specific French laws about that. The English wikipedia article about it is poorly written but that's a good example : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayssot_Act
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Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1715
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:36:00 -
[115] - Quote
Frying Doom,
If you can't see the difference between a war that was started to attempt to liberate a country from a dictator (and people dying in the process) and a dictator who wanted to kill people to kill people on a mass scale, then I don't know what to tell you.
I might point out the irony here is that the Iraq war was started to release a country from a dictator who had performed acts of genocide in the past, but I think it would be lost on you.
You are unbelievably stupid. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Frying Doom
2023
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:36:00 -
[116] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:You mean besides, EU law, US law, AU law? Specific laws, Frying Doom. You don't get away that easily (also loooooooooool at thinking the EU would protect neonazi anything ever) You could have saved me the hassle of re typing, it is in GD atm But check out the Handbook on European non-discrimination law section 3.5.2 page 81 "The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level of protection against interference. Similarly, as noted in Chapter 4.11., any interference with the right to free speech in the context of political debate is scrutinised very closely." So yes the neo-bloody-**** party is protected under EU law. the government is not allowed to interfere (generally, with neonazis being one glaring exception) with the formation of political parties organizations, however, are absolutely free to refuse to hire neonazis and racists try again Well how about you show me these lovely laws that allow organizations, excluding other political and religious organizations to discriminate? Or you might want to read further down in that document I told you to look up as it says exactly the opossite.
But I am happy to see your references. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
453
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:38:00 -
[117] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Well how about you show me these lovely laws that allow organizations, excluding other political and religious organizations to discriminate? Or you might want to read further down in that document I told you to look up as it says exactly the opossite.
But I am happy to see your references.
you don't need a law to legalize things
all things not banned by law are legal
it's like asking me what law permits me to eat a sandwich |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1715
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:39:00 -
[118] - Quote
"Look, it doesn't matter if the guy literally thinks genocide is OK and we should all probably get back to doing that ASAP, its wrong to discriminate"
- Frying Doom, 2013 - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1715
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:39:00 -
[119] - Quote
Like, how are you not seeing the irony here jesus ******* christ - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Father Snuggles
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
145
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Posted - 2013.03.28 15:40:00 -
[120] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Father Snuggles wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Honestly does the fact he follows a political movement that is almost about to celebrate its 100th anniversary, really matter?
So the creator of that movement and leader of that country was classified as a war criminal. You would be lucky to find many people that were adults during that war.
We have had war criminals leading countries since then and we presumably have followers of their parties in the CSM.
So does his RL political views matter to a Games Politics? This just in: Worshipping Hi tler is no longer a no-no because the holocaust is sooo last century. So your suggesting that CCP should ban people in political parties guilty of starting wars of aggression? Well I suppose that will annoy members of the US republican party, The Australian Liberal Party and UK labour party.
You're (you see, it's a contraction of "you are") missing my point, mostly because I didn't suggest CCP take any action based on his campaigning efforts. In fact, I did not suggest any form of action be taken whatsoever. My sole motivation in this thread thus far was to ridicule both the efforts of a nazi whitewashing himself in public and the mindless nazi-apologists pretending there is no problem at all.
On a somewhat-related note, I do believe CCP should both draw-up and enact policies to suppress and/or punish the posting of content related to the support and/or glorification of parties instrumental to the holocaust. But that's just my personal opinion. But this isn't as relevant to this thread as my second opinion:
I do believe that CCP should not suppress or censor people calling nazis out on the forums like they did in the very same campaign thread one "Revedhort, Fon" posted a year ago.
Finally, if you believe that worshipping Hitler, supporting and voicing racial supremacist theories or disseminating content that does so "is a political view", you need to seek professional help.
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