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Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 07:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Again a "kill all farmers thread".
FW is still broken like hell. I changed militia from amarr to caldari. I really got sick with farmatar militia. And what do I see in cal/gal fw? Farmatars everywhere. And do not tell me that are all alts. There are enough farmatar from well known minnie (sometimes even pvp!) corps (epta, true horde). I know CCP give a damn f... about fw actually. But the system is so broken that it really hurts. Everywhere are stabbed runaway minmatars farming the hell out of the warzone. Yes I mean the cal/gal warzone! Because these nasty cicadas have alredy farmed amarr/minmatar warzone down. PVP has almost absolutely NO influence on warzone control So CCP made fw like a war you win the best without fighting and where the best solution is to run away. That is damn /&%"&/-º
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
144
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 07:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Let the hate FLOW your path to the Damar side is almost complete.
Farmers follow the Tiers so we are at Tier 4 and there are less Amarr systems so farmers go to Caldari, Which also shows that it's pointless to blame this faction or that faction, Farmers have no loyalty or affiliation with anyone.
**Murientor Tribe** a capsuleer organization composed of radical Minmatar. Since YC107 http://www.defiant-legacy.com/ |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 08:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:Let the hate FLOW your path to the Damar side is almost complete.
I am prolly already on the damar side since I chased all those stabbed minnie slashers in august2012 ^^ |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
443
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 08:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
This isn't a Minmatar only issue - especially around T3, there were never ending waves of stabbed Caldari plexers coming down from Tama into the Nisuwa area. And it doesn't end at stabs either - stabs, cloaks, ecm all in one.
Farmers gonna farm :( |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
397
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 09:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
chatgris wrote:This isn't a Minmatar only issue - especially around T3, there were never ending waves of stabbed Caldari plexers coming down from Tama into the Nisuwa area. And it doesn't end at stabs either - stabs, cloaks, ecm all in one.
Farmers gonna farm :(
says farmer |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
541
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 09:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:chatgris wrote:This isn't a Minmatar only issue - especially around T3, there were never ending waves of stabbed Caldari plexers coming down from Tama into the Nisuwa area. And it doesn't end at stabs either - stabs, cloaks, ecm all in one.
Farmers gonna farm :( says farmer
says farmer |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
217
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 10:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
*poasting in amarrtard weeping thread*
Didn't see you complaining about farming when amarrs held most of metro and the whole auga/dal constellation due to the farmarr alt horde.
Maybe your shoes have strategically placed spikes so they make you weep piteously only when you put them on the other foot or something.
Hypocrite. |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 10:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:*poasting in amarrtard weeping thread*
Didn't see you complaining about farming when amarrs held most of metro and the whole auga/dal constellation due to the farmarr alt horde.
Maybe your shoes have strategically placed spikes so they make you weep piteously only when you put them on the other foot or something.
Hypocrite.
It was never meant to hold that T3 longer than some hours. But what we didn-¦t know is that the whole farming armada would join us. I am more complaining here how worthless pvp has become concerning tier status. PVP influence on tier status is maybe not even 5%. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
152
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 11:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Again a "kill all farmers thread".
FW is still broken like hell. I changed militia from amarr to caldari. I really got sick with farmatar militia. And what do I see in cal/gal fw? Farmatars everywhere. And do not tell me that are all alts. There are enough farmatar from well known minnie (sometimes even pvp!) corps (epta, true horde). I know CCP give a damn f... about fw actually. But the system is so broken that it really hurts. Everywhere are stabbed runaway minmatars farming the hell out of the warzone. Yes I mean the cal/gal warzone! Because these nasty cicadas have alredy farmed amarr/minmatar warzone down. PVP has almost absolutely NO influence on warzone control So CCP made fw like a war you win the best without fighting and where the best solution is to run away. That is damn /&%"&/-º
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
Edit: YES I AM RAGING!!!! I see here sometimes more minnies than gals in cal/gal fw. The difference is the gals somtimes fight and the minnies run away.
Edit2: To Mnemic: Next gate camp you can make in cal/gal wz. There are more minnies here than in amarr wz^^
U mad?
I think you might need to see a Doctor about that pain in your butt too |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 11:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:
U mad?
I think you might need to see a Doctor about that pain in your butt too
grow up^^ |
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
541
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
The way i see ii, you have 2 options.
1. Decouple ISK from plexing, this being the cause of and the fix for farming. Low sec population dies off again.
2. Slightly tweak the current systems tier rewards, add timer rollbacks, no stabs in plexes, something addressing evasion cloaking. This does not stop farming, just makes it slightly less passive. But those of us wanting to maintain a target rich environment are happy.
I think the curent system is ok. Bt it is scary how caldari, wit their own fair share of farmers are hitting 35k VP per day yet make little hadway into the occupancy. I wouldnt b surprised if matar farmers were hitting twce that VP, which is approaching inferno levels. Though their rewards are nothing like inferno, so its hard to say its aas serious a problem |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
397
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 12:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
FW will be broken as long as attacker and defender are interested about different things and different plexes.
If both have reason to take same plex fight for it may occur.
Docking denial does not work fully because farmers who mostly make systems flip are not really interested about docking at all.
so farmers farm systems that no one else is interested and defender defend systems where they want to dock.
things will come to point where FW people mostly base out of FW area on stations that can not be locked down and farmers can almost freely farm lp where they want.
i do not mind if we get totally rid of target rich environment where only challenge is to instapop stabbed farmers before they warp. Killing farmers is as boring as farming plexes, that is why i do not bother to even kill farmers anymore. |
Shadow Adanza
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
60
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
You want a fight? Come to Nisuwa during US TZ late evenings/early nights and ask for a 1v1 in local. I'm sure someone will oblige. Or if you want, you can open a plex and see how many stir. Kedama is a good place for fights, as well. Quite a few pirates as well as Gallente and Caldari are all active there for what seems like most of the day.
This game is what you make of it. You can spend your time complaining about farmers, you can chase/kill them, or you can go and find fights and not even worry about the farmers not in your home system. Hey! You're no zombie! |
Yogsoloth
Percussive Diplomacy Samurai Pizza Cats
121
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
The biggest issue is that there are several easy fixes to this problem that could be implemented overnight, we shouldn't have to wait 4+ months for these issues to get addressed.
Get on it already. |
Garan Nardieu
Moira. Villore Accords
16
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yogsoloth wrote: The biggest issue is that there are several easy fixes to this problem that could be implemented overnight, we shouldn't have to wait 4+ months for these issues to get addressed.
Get on it already.
Not to mention most of those fixes were discussed during pre-retribution fw changes talk. Unfortunatelly, I guess we'll have to wait for two more months (Odyssey) for any changes to be implemented |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1225
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote: Edit: The difference is the gals somtimes fight and the minnies run away.
That certainly explains when the Minnie/Amarr warzone is almost ENTIRELY Minmatar controlled. Yup, Minmatar just run. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
219
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote: Edit: The difference is the gals somtimes fight and the minnies run away.
That certainly explains when the Minnie/Amarr warzone is almost ENTIRELY Minmatar controlled. Yup, Minmatar just run.
Amarr just cry endlessly regardless of what's actually going on.
I remember not too long ago Colt died in a plex to our scout, the fight was over a good 20 seconds before any of the rest of the fleet arrived and he still managed to spend a good few minutes crying about blobs and dishonour in local.
Broken whinebot is broken.
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1187
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
The sovereignty warfare part of FW is not ideal (to say the least), but it has a few benefits: 1. Steady isk income for pvp habit 2. Leads to massive numbers of fights for players actually looking for fights 3. Sovereignty in "home systems" are determined by pvp'ers, not farmers.
So, not "completely broken." And yeah, I was preaching the same thing when Gallente were at Tier 1. Farmers are gonna farm, but their influence on our daily activities in FW can be managed.
|
Akai Kvaesir
In Exile.
124
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
It shouldn't be possible for farmers to jump militias, or at least, it shouldn't be as easy as it is.
Edit: farming has nothing to do with a specific militia, it is a FW-wide problem, and the swarm of locusts only follows the most lucrative harvest. Frogblast the Vent Core! When the W'rkncacnter came, Pthia was killed, and Yrro in anger, flung the W'rkncacnter into the sun. The sun burned them, but they swam on its surface. |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
88
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Akai Kvaesir wrote:
Edit: farming has nothing to do with a specific militia, it is a FW-wide problem, and the swarm of locusts only follows the most lucrative harvest.
Once you understand the locust analogy, it really isn't that bad. If you want the locusts on your side, you need to feed them (ie provide Tier-3 or Tier-4). If the locusts are against you, you need to deny them food. That can be done by crushing the other sides tier level or by losing all your non-defended systems. . |
|
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1108
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Prices in the Amarr LP store are on the rise again. |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
92
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seems a lot of these locusts is posting here^^ Especially from a slave militia where 85% of the members don-¦t know how to fight without blob, ogb, falcons and 2 b pods. Well Blobtechncally the amarr were better now :P
I simply want he following: I want that pvp for a faction makes sense. POINT. Actually it doesn-¦t make sense. Of course I have fun but sys occupancy is a joke with that. I remember when once a horde of stabbed gals jumped into lamaa. A whole fleet. Some 8 gals maybe. Everyone only running away and plexing like hell. Stabbed comets, slicers, vexors. Stabbed vexors running away from my little hookbill^^. We wanted to defend that system at that time. But we couldn-¦t. We simply hadn-¦t the nerves and numbers to place a pvper 24/7 in every plex to prevent the system form being farmed to hell. That is simply crazy. If I want sys occupancy--------->Grabbing a stabbed ship makes more sense than pvping with a 400mil cynabal!!! Ridigulous.
I left amarr militia when it was at a status where the first time I saw that they really were able to kick the minnies in the c...jones. But still T1. Because of the farmer armada. Yeah they get fights but you can get these fights also as a pirate. No difference. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1226
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote: We wanted to defend that system at that time. But we couldn-¦t. We simply hadn-¦t the nerves and numbers to place a pvper 24/7 in every plex to prevent the system form being farmed to hell.
OK, so let me get this straight: According to evewho.com, your corp (Nasranite) has 43 members, and your alliance (Bloody Ronin) has 105 members, adn you couldn't find one person per plex for a single system--- let's assume, at most, 10 active plexes in that system--- to help keep hold on your home system? Really? All of your alliance members are in a single time zone? You can't actively recruit outside your TZ for other people to join the Alliance to keep sov?
Help me understand here. :) "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
92
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 18:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Quote:OK, so let me get this straight: According to evewho.com, your corp (Nasranite) has 43 members, and your alliance (Bloody Ronin) has 105 members, adn you couldn't find one person per plex for a single system--- let's assume, at most, 10 active plexes in that system--- to help keep hold on your home system? Really? All of your alliance members are in a single time zone? You can't actively recruit outside your TZ for other people to join the Alliance to keep sov?
Help me understand here. :)
At that moment I was in an amarr mili alliance with almost 400 members and active 24/7. And sorry but it is no fun "guarding" a plex 24/7. Especially amarr are very pvp orientated so tell a bigger corp to plex some days and you will get mutiny. I remember when Greygal from agony said she (Maud on TS: "**** Gregal is a chick!") didn-¦t want Kourm any more because all this def plexing was simply no fun.
And there we have the problem: FW is actually a plex in a stabbed ship tournament instead of shoot your enemy tournament. All this pvp around is maybe important for 5% of the systems. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
259
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 19:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Seems a lot of these locusts are posting here^^ Especially from a slave militia where 85% of the members don-¦t know how to fight without blob, ogb, falcons and 2b pods.
I get it. It's funny because you're being ironic.
Oh, wait. You were being serious. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1108
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 19:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
He's gone rabid! Everyone back up slowly. |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
92
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 19:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:He's gone rabid! Everyone back up slowly.
Who? |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
811
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
still think the docking thing is stupid, adds needless logistical and chronological complications to a feature that already takes best part of a week to make a system vulnerable - thats if the enemy doesnt push it back ofc!
About the farmers? Thats purely the isk earning potentials fault and how completely broken the ratio of isk vs. time invested in the character.
Also the lack of need to actually fight anything other than the NPC in the plex to get your reward. Farmers farm available systems, they do not take systems to farm them or pvp/deplex to keep them -> huge issue. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Dark Lightstrong
Asset Reclamation Services LLC
8
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Wouldn't something like a decrease in LP (-50%) gained from plexes and a huge increase from when you destroy an enemy militia player (150-250%) help, like alot? |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
445
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dark Lightstrong wrote:Wouldn't something like a decrease in LP (-50%) gained from plexes and a huge increase from when you destroy an enemy militia player (150-250%) help, like alot?
No because then people would just blow up their alts for profit. |
|
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1108
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 21:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
There are a slew of threads whining about suicide ganking. There are these threads about farmers. Do you want to know what both have in common? Bored Nullbears.
I'm hoping that the resource revamp gives them something to do. Honestly - if I could make my living in my own space I sure as hell would not want to create an alt to circle buttons. |
Makavelia
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 21:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Change the stealth bomber back to cruise missiles. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1228
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 22:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:still think the docking thing is stupid, adds needless logistical and chronological complications to a feature that already takes best part of a week to make a system vulnerable - thats if the enemy doesnt push it back ofc!
About the farmers? Thats purely the isk earning potentials fault and how completely broken the ratio of isk vs. time invested in the character.
Also the lack of need to actually fight anything other than the NPC in the plex to get your reward. Farmers farm available systems, they do not take systems to farm them or pvp/deplex to keep them -> huge issue.
Add difficulty to take systems time wise and logisticly - to farmers with little to no interest in keeping or flipping vulnerable systems and you have FW players who RP (not actual RP), people that want to take systems for glory and honor of their race etc and you have people on the same side working against each other more than together. If that isk runs too low, the farmer switches to another alt or changes militia. No wonder players like colt are raging :)
also: in before "told you so, before inferno."
Playing Devil's Advocate, even the farmers are contributing to the war effort, so why all the hate? Just because they run from a 1v5 (frigate vs FW toon + four neutrals) dropping into a plex? I will *almost* always fight a 1v1 that looks like it'll be a good fight, but I'll run every single time from a gang of neuts and a single FW player. The intent is obvious, and I choose not to take part in that bad, one sided fight. ("Learn to choose your fights" is the mantra, no?)
So I guess that makes me one of the bad guys. So be it. I'll adjust my tactics accordingly (already have, actually). "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Lin Suizei
126
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 23:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Playing Devil's Advocate, even the farmers are contributing to the war effort, so why all the hate?
Personally, I don't think there's much hate towards the farmers themselves - they've identified a clearly broken system and are exploiting it hard and fast before CCP looks at faction war again (maybe in 2016), as they rightfully should.
Now, if only plex mechanics didn't strongly incentivize sitting 29km from the button with a cloak and stabs. Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
Pax Thar
Sovereign Front
53
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 23:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
The current system does promote more activity in low sec over the old one. More people is more PvP. Care bears will care bear... learn to kill them, stop whining. |
Dash Bishop
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 00:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:There are a slew of threads whining about suicide ganking. There are these threads about farmers. Do you want to know what both have in common? Bored Nullbears.
I'm hoping that the resource revamp gives them something to do. Honestly - if I could make my living in my own space I sure as hell would not want to create an alt to circle buttons.
AMEN. The null bear influence on this game is overwheleming when you look at how much they really have their grubby fingers into. Caldari Militia-áGÿ£G£½GÿP |
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
58
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 09:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Just get rid of plex LP, if you want to farm, farm missions.
Once you get a system flipped, maybe it could spawn local missions to the benefit of the system holders (maybe even based on their base faction or size, ie a base Minnie system held by Minnies would spawn more profitable sites than an Amarr system held by Minnies). This would then give a reason to hold the system. |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
400
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 10:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
Philpip wrote:Just get rid of plex LP, if you want to farm, farm missions.
Except you can't run missions in proper pvp fits, so this is a non-runner. The genius of FW plexes is that you're farming and waiting for pvp action at the same time. |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
92
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 11:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Philpip wrote:Just get rid of plex LP, if you want to farm, farm missions.
Except you can't run missions in proper pvp fits, so this is a non-runner. The genius of FW plexes is that you're farming and waiting for pvp action at the same time.
The genius is that 90% of people running these plexes are cloaky and stabbed and don-¦t want pvp but simply crazy easy amounts of isk. With doing that they make people who really fight for the warzone feel like idiotic clowns.
|
Apelacja
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 11:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
yea smthing should be done in FW as long as the current mechanism support to much the wining site. however its hard to find a way where farmers and farming macroes wouldnt win. And u cant leave only pvp parts bcs one side can avoid it and then what?
How to force people to fight - it is a good question.
|
|
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
400
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 11:15:00 -
[41] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
The genius is that 90% of people running these plexes are cloaky and stabbed and don-¦t want pvp but simply crazy easy amounts of isk. With doing that they make people who really fight for the warzone feel like idiotic clowns.
So this is just a hurt feelings issue? I can understand your frustration since you've got both the Minmatar and the Gallente farmers in your plexes at the moment. I wouldn't mind personally if they disabled cloaks and warp stabs in plexes, but it'd still be trivial for a farmer to watch dscan and warp out as soon as something lands on grid. But I don't want to be pigeonholed into having to run missions to earn ISK, that's why I left highsec in the first place.
Plenty of fights are still happening, everything else just seems like sour grapes over people earning ISK. |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
400
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 11:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Apelacja wrote:yea smthing should be done in FW as long as the current mechanism support to much the wining site. however its hard to find a way where farmers and farming macroes wouldnt win. And u cant leave only pvp parts bcs one side can avoid it and then what?
How to force people to fight - it is a good question.
Plexing their staging system is a good start. People care about docking rights. I've got about 600m worth of ships in Nenn at the moment. If the IHub upgrades gave better economic benefits, this would matter even more.
|
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
58
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 12:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Philpip wrote:Just get rid of plex LP, if you want to farm, farm missions.
Except you can't run missions in proper pvp fits, so this is a non-runner. The genius of FW plexes is that you're farming and waiting for pvp action at the same time.
This is my exact point, farmers don't fight, they cloak or warp off (stabbed). If they won't 'fight' then they are not in the 'war', so their pve (as this is technically what they are doing) should not influence the warzone.
At least for fw missions they will have to think beyond "how to I escape?". |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
159
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 12:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Markius TheShed wrote:Let the hate FLOW your path to the Damar side is almost complete.
Farmers follow the Tiers so we are at Tier 4 and there are less Amarr systems so farmers go to Caldari, Which also shows that it's pointless to blame this faction or that faction, Farmers have no loyalty or affiliation with anyone.
tryd to come up with something better but this is best post iv read in a long time GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance 24eme Legion Etrangere
57
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 13:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
It'd be nice if the button structure locked you up and put an infinite point on you.
Just sayin'. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1228
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 15:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Playing Devil's Advocate, even the farmers are contributing to the war effort, so why all the hate? Personally, I don't think there's much hate towards the farmers themselves - they've identified a clearly broken system and are exploiting it hard and fast before CCP looks at faction war again (maybe in 2016), as they rightfully should. Now, if only plex mechanics didn't strongly incentivize sitting 29km from the button with a cloak and stabs.
Personally, I've got no problem with a new mechanic that prevents cloaks from working in plexes. No stabs just means someone is whining about not being able to kill someone that's actually there to participate in the game. To do that is just giving in to the whiners.
I come back to my main suggestion for FW: only allow FW members into plexes. If you have to ambush someone for your thrills and kills, you're doing it wrong. And no, I really don't care who disagrees with me on that idea.
Oh, and to the complete MORON that posted:
Quote:Farmers have no loyalty or affiliation with anyone.
... you just demonstrated your complete ignorance by making the blanket statement you just did. Good job. You just invalidated any other comments you've ever made. Everyone should OF COURSE play YOUR game, not their own. Obviously. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 17:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Well, need to create ways to keep people from jumping from militia to militia; or make the farming even harder. Maybe Increase the standings gain from plexing, so that they gain ranks and lock themselves out of their opposing factions. Or make it so that players leaving FW cannot immediately jump into another FW until a certain time limit is reached. Say 2 weeks? Maybe more? |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1228
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 18:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Well, need to create ways to keep people from jumping from militia to militia; or make the farming even harder. Maybe Increase the standings gain from plexing, so that they gain ranks and lock themselves out of their opposing factions. Or make it so that players leaving FW cannot immediately jump into another FW until a certain time limit is reached. Say 2 weeks? Maybe more?
I'd be fine with that, too... Even go so far as to say you can't hop into another faction without a 6 month (180 day) cool-down period. There is absolutely no reasonable excuse for needing to hop other than farming.
My big problem at this point is that "farmer" is being applied to anyone that plexes or run missions in FW. I know I'm not a farmer (no patience for all that sit-on-my-arse time), but I like taking an FW toon and a neutral booster out there, watching traffic, chatting up others in system, and so on. Just like I don't like sitting on button for hours on end, I also despise roaming for hours on end, running from blobs, and blobbing on single ships with other folks. That's not my idea of fun. "Carebear" is anyone that doesn't peeveepee, and "farmer" is anyone that doesn't peeveepee. That really shows the idiocy that seems to be growing in this game for the last could years. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
93
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 18:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
The only solution I know of is timer rollback (even when wt cloaks in plex----> timer rollback) and that stabbed ships can-¦t enter. The nullbears tbh mostly run missions. Saw enough neutrals in bombers doing missions with fw alts in amarr space when amarr had T3.
And yeah I know that amarr had many many farmers when they had T3. Lots of cloaky caldaris everywhere. Really wasn-¦t proud of it^^ Simply give the faction pvpers a sense to do pvp for their faction. Actually there is almost none. |
Grayson Cole
R.A.V.E.N.
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 18:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
Are there any actual dedicated FW players? Seriously.
It seems FW is mostly made up of farmers, null alts, and players just looking for a place to pad killboards. Caldari Militia Gÿ£G£½GÿP |
|
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
89
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 18:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:The only solution I know of, is timer rollback (even when wt cloaks in plex----> timer rollback) and that stabbed ships can-¦t enter. The nullbears tbh mostly run missions. Saw enough neutrals in bombers doing missions with fw alts in amarr space when amarr had T3.
And yeah I know that amarr had many many farmers when they had T3. Lots of cloaky plexers everywhere. Really wasn-¦t proud of it^^ Simply give the faction pvpers a sense to do pvp for their faction. Actually there is almost none.
Somebody else already said it, but the "fix" is to fix 0.0 so that we don't have 0.0 alts in FW to make isk. 0.0 should be more profitable than lowsec, which it isn't for the average grunt. This is the root of the problem. Once 0.0 is fixed, all the 0.0 alts should go away which will only leave the highsec alts which isn't a bad thing. . |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1228
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 18:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Grayson Cole wrote:Are there any actual dedicated FW players? Seriously.
It seems FW is mostly made up of farmers, null alts, and players just looking for a place to pad killboards.
I'm not dedicated, no. If I had to break down my playtime across my accounts, I'd say I was 45% industrial (R&D, manufacturing, market), 30% missioning (Caldari, Minnie, & Gallente), and the rest FW. Doing any one thing too long begins to bore me. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
405
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 19:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:It'd be nice if the button structure locked you up and put an infinite point on you.
Just sayin'.
Which in practice would mean fleets going around killing any people foolishly trying to soloplex. Which would hurt the actual pvpers who put some ISK into their ships more than the farmers in a T1 frig with nothing but warp stabs and t1 guns.
Picking your fights is what Eve is all about. |
Shadow Adanza
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
62
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 19:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
Grayson Cole wrote:Are there any actual dedicated FW players? Seriously.
It seems FW is mostly made up of farmers, null alts, and players just looking for a place to pad killboards. One would argue that killing enemies of the Federation was the most important job as a member of the Gallente militia.
Hey! You're no zombie! |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
74
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 23:47:00 -
[55] - Quote
Maybe CCP needs to create an infinite point mod for interceptors. That way farmers would be limited to only operating in the novices.
Also, I don't think null alts come to FW for the isk, I think the pvp situation in null has gotten tired; and nullies are coming to FW for the fights. Let's face it, HBC/CFC/TEST/PL and all the nullsec alliances have gotten bored with grinding sov mechanics to the point they actually arrange fleet fights. Pretty sad in my opinion. |
Lin Suizei
127
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 00:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Maybe CCP needs to create an infinite point mod for interceptors. That way farmers would be limited to only operating in the novices.
Not really - when farmers are already sitting in unfit executioners not even bothering to react to losses, I doubt this will change much. Also, cloaking - can't infnipoint what's not lockable. Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1246
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 01:33:00 -
[57] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:Hypocrite.
You are the reason the "hide posts" button was invented.
Live Events are neither. |
Pax Thar
Sovereign Front
54
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 02:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
In fw you can make tons of isk, hunt farmers, fight pvpers, rp... what else do y'all want? It could improve yes, but what we have now is a buffet of things to choose from. Fit to kill farmers and hunt them if it bothers you... want a fight, go out and find one they are everywhere.... want to farm, do it. Someone will be out looking for you. Farmers provide the predators with prey, don't hate the gazelle foe not putting up a fight... just eat it. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
330
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 03:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:
Somebody else already said it, but the "fix" is to fix 0.0 so that we don't have 0.0 alts in FW to make isk. 0.0 should be more profitable than lowsec, which it isn't for the average grunt. This is the root of the problem. Once 0.0 is fixed, all the 0.0 alts should go away which will only leave the highsec alts which isn't a bad thing.
Fixing 0.0 only works if you 're-work' low sec and high sec.
Currently FW is proabbly the place that is the easiest casual isk generation of all areas of space. Far greater than non FW low sec (you can make billions in exploration but that requires lots of effort) You can grind lvl'4 or incursions but once again effort... You can do the moon goo thing and stuff out in null but why spend the 'effort'
FW is easy.
Unless the null 'fix' mkaes it way more profitable or easier isk then it won't actually do anyhting about the farmer issue. All sections of space need balancing.
The FW mechanics would be fine if space was balanced (risk v reward v sec) That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
330
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 03:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
Pax Thar wrote:In fw you can make tons of isk, hunt farmers, fight pvpers, rp... what else do y'all want? It could improve yes, but what we have now is a buffet of things to choose from. Fit to kill farmers and hunt them if it bothers you... want a fight, go out and find one they are everywhere.... want to farm, do it. Someone will be out looking for you. Farmers provide the predators with prey, don't hate the gazelle foe not putting up a fight... just eat it.
By far the best attitude to take to FW.
EAT EVERYTHING! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
|
Commissar Veldt
Progressive State State Section 9
34
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 06:56:00 -
[61] - Quote
Grayson Cole wrote:Are there any actual dedicated FW players? Seriously.
It seems FW is mostly made up of farmers, null alts, and players just looking for a place to pad killboards.
I know loads in Caldari and Gallente, plenty out there, plenty of us p*ssed off with current FW mechanic which has killed our baby and turned it into farmville. Once you start getting stuck into PVP/plexing out in Black Rise you will get to know the local corps on both sides, who fights, who runs, who is the farmers etc...
Think timer rollbacks is a good idea but lets say I find a farmer, warp into plex and he cloaks or warps off. , as soon as I leave because I cant get a fight hes straight back on the button, timer rollback of about 1 minute (because im not patient enough to try camp/chase farmers anymore). Best Idea I have heard recently is a few more spawns of NPC's, not many, but make it so one new NPC spawns every few minutes or so, causing farmers to have to do more than kill one NPC then sit on button. Everyone used to b*tch and whine about FW being PVE and NPC's but if you had NPC spawns even at half of what they used to be I think it would reduce LP farming) |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
93
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 11:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1527982 That is fw actually^^ This guy prolly conquered several systems alone^^ |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
410
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 11:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1527982 That is fw actually^^ This guy prolly conquered several systems alone^^
Ah yes. The vital Gallente staging system of Immuri. I live right next door, it gets farmed fairly regularly by both sides. Gives me something to do while waiting for a fleet to join.
Edit : Also note that this guy fits neither cloaks nor warp core stabs. So removing both is only a partial fix to the perceived problem. |
Lin Suizei
127
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 11:17:00 -
[64] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1527982 That is fw actually^^ This guy prolly conquered several systems alone^^
These guys should get medals for truly winning at faction war. Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
94
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 11:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
Quote:Ah yes. The vital Gallente staging system of Immuri. I live right next door, it gets farmed fairly regularly by both sides. Gives me something to do while waiting for a fleet to join.
Edit : Also note that this guy fits neither cloaks nor warp core stabs. So removing both is only a partial fix to the perceived problem.
Okay you are right. But actually I would be even happy with a partial fix. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1228
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1527982 That is fw actually^^ This guy prolly conquered several systems alone^^
He's doing something. How many of you are just sitting in high sec spinning? "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
855
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 20:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
chatgris wrote:This isn't a Minmatar only issue - especially around T3, there were never ending waves of stabbed Caldari plexers coming down from Tama into the Nisuwa area. And it doesn't end at stabs either - stabs, cloaks, ecm all in one.
Farmers gonna farm :(
I don't mind pve in general. I don't mind people runnning level 4 missions, cosmos missions, epic arcs, or belt ratting, or sleeper sites, or fw missions, or incursions etc.
I just think its too bad they had to make fw sov yet another pve mechanic. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
334
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 21:08:00 -
[68] - Quote
Cearain wrote:chatgris wrote:This isn't a Minmatar only issue - especially around T3, there were never ending waves of stabbed Caldari plexers coming down from Tama into the Nisuwa area. And it doesn't end at stabs either - stabs, cloaks, ecm all in one.
Farmers gonna farm :( I don't mind pve in general. I don't mind people runnning level 4 missions, cosmos missions, epic arcs, or belt ratting, or sleeper sites, or fw missions, or incursions etc. I just think its too bad they had to make fw sov yet another pve mechanic.
I too would love to see FW sov a pvp mechanic.
However I can't see it ever being so without either a: massive structure bashing grinds or b: hugely exploitable by alt farming.
In reality EVE doesn't really have the playerbase to make any form of sov a completely pvp mechanic without some form of timer watching, structure bashing mechanic. If eve had 10x the number spread out across all TZ then I'd say there would be enough players to actually make a completly pvp mechanic at least viable. But then it would probably be exploitable by alt farming of some kind.
TBH I'd like to see the Teired WZ gone and have standard LP values for plex's regard less of how much of the WZ you control.
Keep the lockout mechanic and system upgrades so you can upgrade your home etc. This way it is still valuable to capture space.
This would stop the farm horde from militia hopping to whatever militia is at highest teir for bonussed LP but still allow the actual FW players to make enough LP to support their playstyle.
Do this and you pretty much remove the biggest farm factor for most farmers - bonussed LP. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Grayson Cole
R.A.V.E.N.
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 21:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
Best fix IMHO is that you can only have 1 character in FW at any time. In addition, it has to be your main, the character with the most skill points. There should also be a fairly long lockout if you decide to drop from FW, perhaps a week.
This wouldn't eliminate 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, etc) accounts from being involved, but would be a serious blow to alts and LP farmers. Caldari Militia Gÿ£G£½GÿP |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
334
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 21:37:00 -
[70] - Quote
Grayson Cole wrote:Best fix IMHO is that you can only have 1 character in FW at any time. In addition, it has to be your main, the character with the most skill points. There should also be a fairly long lockout if you decide to drop from FW, perhaps a week.
This wouldn't eliminate 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, etc) accounts from being involved, but would be a serious blow to alts and LP farmers.
Not really a workable fix IMO this would be an account wide restriction which kinda goes against the sandbox feel of eve. In doing this you might as well just say that from now on each account can only have 1 toon. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
|
Grayson Cole
R.A.V.E.N.
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 22:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Not really a workable fix IMO this would be an account wide restriction which kinda goes against the sandbox feel of eve.
In doing this you might as well just say that from now on each account can only have 1 toon.
There's never going to be a workable fix that fits within the sandbox element. Players will always find a way around it. The only way to truly get rid of this kind of stuff is to nerf it at the account level. Caldari Militia Gÿ£G£½GÿP |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
334
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 22:12:00 -
[72] - Quote
Grayson Cole wrote:
There's never going to be a workable fix that fits within the sandbox element. Players will always find a way around it. The only way to truly get rid of this kind of stuff is to nerf it at the account level.
Anything requiring an account nerf is very bad for eve. got nothing to do the sandbox element now that I think about it.
Mucking about with mechanics is one thing but mucking about with account is a whole other can of worms.
One toon in FW - pretty easy from a coding pov but how would you determine 'mains'? not practicable..... That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Major Killz
163
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 22:21:00 -
[73] - Quote
Why does factional warfare seem to break after every patch?
- killz |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
856
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 22:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Cearain wrote:chatgris wrote:This isn't a Minmatar only issue - especially around T3, there were never ending waves of stabbed Caldari plexers coming down from Tama into the Nisuwa area. And it doesn't end at stabs either - stabs, cloaks, ecm all in one.
Farmers gonna farm :( I don't mind pve in general. I don't mind people runnning level 4 missions, cosmos missions, epic arcs, or belt ratting, or sleeper sites, or fw missions, or incursions etc. I just think its too bad they had to make fw sov yet another pve mechanic. I too would love to see FW sov a pvp mechanic. However I can't see it ever being so without either a: massive structure bashing grinds or b: hugely exploitable by alt farming. In reality EVE doesn't really have the playerbase to make any form of sov a completely pvp mechanic without some form of timer watching, structure bashing mechanic. If eve had 10x the number spread out across all TZ then I'd say there would be enough players to actually make a completly pvp mechanic at least viable. But then it would probably be exploitable by alt farming of some kind..
You are right that if there were a huge increase in numbers the current system might work. That is why ccp needs to implement mechanics such that each pvp has a much bigger impact on the warzone than the pve-ers.
If they implement a form or timer rollback, and notifications it would be a pvp mechanic. These changes have been proposed by players for years.
CCP focused on lockouts and lp rewards instead.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
856
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 22:44:00 -
[75] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Why does factional warfare seem to break after every patch?
- killz
CCP never fixes it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Grendel Sickswitch
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 23:35:00 -
[76] - Quote
it's one of the best ways of making isk atm and rightly so given the amount of ships you lose.
how many ships do mission runners lose? miners?
|
Lin Suizei
127
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 01:33:00 -
[77] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Do this and you pretty much remove the biggest farm factor for most farmers - bonussed LP.
Someone on these forums got it right a few weeks ago - ultimately, as long as undocking a non-combat ship is preferrable to undocking a PvP ship, faction war will never be good. Even if LP rewards are reduced, farmers will still farm, because it's so easy, safe, and requires next to zero investment.
With regards to all the suggestions of timer countdowns if people warp out our people cloak, don't forget there also needs to be some kind of measure to deal with people (i.e. Walter Islands) in nano condors who keep range, simply waiting for pirates and wartargets to leave before they finish the plex - otherwise, farmers just do that instead. Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
159
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 03:13:00 -
[78] - Quote
Cearain wrote: and notifications it would be a pvp mechanic. These changes have been proposed by players for years.
only you on that one matey wondered how many posts it would take you to get that in there GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1623
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 04:53:00 -
[79] - Quote
implementing a timer reset is probably 30min effort for somebody who never looked at the code before (not counting testing effort). Something tells me CCP deliberately doesn't want to change that for some reason otherwise we would have it already since retribution.
Would farmers adapt? Possibly. The thing is that every feature needs maintenance in a dynamic world like we have it in eve. The first few weeks after inferno where awesome, something similar happened after retribution. Maybe we can repeat that just by adding timer resets. But as i said for some reason ccp doesn't want to do it. The situation right now is much better as we had it with the cashout strategies after inferno but I really believe it could be even better with minor tweaks to the mechanics.
why i think CCP does not want to change it? Since there was not a single dev comment on a FW topic since retribution. This makes me a bit sad since FW could be so much more as it is now just by continuing to adjust a few things here and there from time to time. a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
416
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 10:33:00 -
[80] - Quote
Grayson Cole wrote:Best fix IMHO is that you can only have 1 character in FW at any time. In addition, it has to be your main, the character with the most skill points. There should also be a fairly long lockout if you decide to drop from FW, perhaps a week.
This wouldn't eliminate 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, etc) accounts from being involved, but would be a serious blow to alts and LP farmers.
This is a terrible idea on multiple levels. -former carebears can't test the waters with a FW alt -if your highest SP character isn't a combat character, its even worse |
|
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 17:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Maybe CCP needs to create an infinite point mod for interceptors. That way farmers would be limited to only operating in the novices. Not really - when farmers are already sitting in unfit executioners not even bothering to react to losses, I doubt this will change much. Also, cloaking - can't infnipoint what's not lockable.
If they are cloaked then they aren't running the site. Stay in there and complete it. Will **** them off, especially if they can't warp while cloaked; then they will either have to risk uncloaking and getting caught. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
553
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 19:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Cloaked inside plexes are solved by *NEW* mechanic: - Interact with beacon like one does with iHubs and deposit 2000LP for a decloaking field with a 30km radius to be deployed and remain in place until plex closes.
There sorted. Can we get on to the heavy stuff? |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
98
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 20:01:00 -
[83] - Quote
Quote:Cloaked inside plexes are solved by *NEW* mechanic: - Interact with beacon like one does with iHubs and deposit 2000LP for a decloaking field with a 30km radius to be deployed and remain in place until plex closes.
There sorted. Can we get on to the heavy stuff?
Would like to. But you forget the following: CCP gives a f... about how they broke fw and won-¦t change anything. |
Zircon Dasher
181
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 21:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote: Would like to. But you forget the following: CCP gives a f... about how they broke fw and won-¦t change anything.
You mean like how they made it profitable? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
98
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 21:21:00 -
[85] - Quote
Quote:You mean like how they made it profitable?
I mean how they made it farmville |
Zircon Dasher
181
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 21:41:00 -
[86] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Quote:You mean like how they made it profitable? I mean how they made it farmville
You say potato, I say multi-billion dollar snack industry.
Same referent different vocalization. vOv
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
417
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 22:02:00 -
[87] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Quote:You mean like how they made it profitable? I mean how they made it farmville
If you got 236 kills in March in farmville, I'd hate to see how many you'd get if they fixed it. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1623
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 23:35:00 -
[88] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:Quote:You mean like how they made it profitable? I mean how they made it farmville If you got 236 kills in March in farmville, I'd hate to see how many you'd get if they fixed it.
like the pure number of kills would matter. Nobody wants to fight pve ships, pve ships don't want to fight too, still they influence where you can dock and where not. Thats a conflict of interests. I would trade all those pve ships against a few pvp ships any time.
but CCP probably looked at the statistics and said, hey FW is growing on popularity, and hey even the number of kills grows. But they don't look at the value of the killed ships or what the situation was as the fight happened. like a farmer who did not alt-tab to the right window fast enough.
whats even more funny but a bit off topic: they did the same mistake again. The orbital bombardment destroyers are all pve ships with meta 1 guns + cloak. No mods or skills influence OB. So people simply use 0 risk ships with trial alts for that. Wait till they add some form of rewards and we are in the same situation. a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
856
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 23:47:00 -
[89] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote: and notifications it would be a pvp mechanic. These changes have been proposed by players for years.
only you on that one matey wondered how many posts it would take you to get that in there
It wasn't even my idea.
And yes I will keep proposing the same solution since its the same problem that is ignored and needs to be fixed.
I am well aware that there are allot of gallente who have recently been coming on these forums that hate that idea that pvpers would know where their alts are hiding and running pelxes. But that doesn't change the fact that this idea was proposed by pvpers for years, and in combination with a timer rollback would make fw sov a pvp game.
Just becasue many of the pvpers have long since abandoned fw and no longer post here doesn't mean their ideas won't work.
Bottom line: we will forever get threads like this one where people realize fw sov is a carebear race - untill ccp actually does what they need to do to fix it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
545
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 00:01:00 -
[90] - Quote
Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote: and notifications it would be a pvp mechanic. These changes have been proposed by players for years.
only you on that one matey wondered how many posts it would take you to get that in there It wasn't even my idea. And yes I will keep proposing the same solution since its the same problem that is ignored and needs to be fixed. I am well aware that there are allot of gallente who have recently been coming on these forums that hate that idea that pvpers would know where their alts are hiding and running pelxes. But that doesn't change the fact that this idea was proposed by pvpers for years, and in combination with a timer rollback would make fw sov a pvp game. Just becasue many of the pvpers have long since abandoned fw and no longer post here doesn't mean their ideas won't work. Bottom line: we will forever get threads like this one where people realize fw sov is a carebear race - untill ccp actually does what they need to do to fix it.
PvP'ers are not looking for stabbed cloaky evasion farmers. So your proposed 'fix' is a complete waste of time and forum space. PvP'ers have no problem finding PvP. They also have no problem finding stabbed cloaky evasion farmers either for that matter.
I just think you lack the faculties to comprehend what people want, though as always feel free to post your inane ideas. Theres no IQ restrictions here. I for one have the patience to keep explaining to you why its a complete waste of time. |
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
448
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 00:21:00 -
[91] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I am well aware that there are allot of gallente who have recently been coming on these forums that hate that idea that pvpers would know where their alts are hiding and running pelxes. But that doesn't change the fact that this idea was proposed by pvpers for years, and in combination with a timer rollback would make fw sov a pvp game.
If I am online, my alt is in Nisuwa or Notoras defensive plexing. It doesn't bother leaving that area, and I'm not trying to hide my alt. I'll come fight for the plex if anyone shows up to harrass my alt. So that's not why i oppose it.
I just oppose NPC generated intel, and think that scouting/intel channels are a good thing.
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
856
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 02:42:00 -
[92] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Cearain wrote: I am well aware that there are allot of gallente who have recently been coming on these forums that hate that idea that pvpers would know where their alts are hiding and running pelxes. But that doesn't change the fact that this idea was proposed by pvpers for years, and in combination with a timer rollback would make fw sov a pvp game.
If I am online, my alt is in Nisuwa or Notoras defensive plexing. It doesn't bother leaving that area, and I'm not trying to hide my alt. I'll come fight for the plex if anyone shows up to harrass my alt. So that's not why i oppose it.
Maybe that is the case for you but you are the rare exception. Most of the alts having the largest impact on the warzone are not keen on having their whereabouts announced to the enemy.
chatgris wrote: I just oppose NPC generated intel, and think that scouting/intel channels are a good thing.
Sure intel channels are a good thing. But they are obviously not enough - unless you are fine with 90% of the warzone being determined by alts in pve fits. You and most of the gallente posters seem fine with that. The vast majority have given up on caring about this broken system.
The intel channels would still have a purpose and indeed would be used allot more than the current ones. They would be used to send pilots into actual pvp combat instead of to chase stabbed ships.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Lin Suizei
129
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 03:13:00 -
[93] - Quote
Cearain wrote:The vast majority have given up on caring about this broken system.
Not even a coordinated Gallente push to Tier 5, with the clearly stated intention of getting CCP to fix faction war, can get CCP to act: what hope do we badposters have?
That said, no system survives the players - ban warp stabs and cloaking in plexes, and farmers will simply take the Walter Islands approach, avoiding fights by parking at 29km from the entrance and mwd'ing away as soon as you land on grid*. Modify plexes to address that, and it will be a matter of days until someone works out how to exploit the system and faction war returns to farmville status. This is a cat and mouse game that CCP can't win, so I'm not surprised they aren't trying.
*: Before anyone says "but you can fit a faster ship", you can already use manual de-cloaking, smartbomb gatecamps and multiple scrams to catch cloaky stabbed ships - it's the same core problem: farmers still don't want to fight.
Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
336
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 03:32:00 -
[94] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:Cearain wrote:The vast majority have given up on caring about this broken system. Not even a coordinated Gallente push to Tier 5, with the clearly stated intention of getting CCP to fix faction war, can get CCP to act: what hope do we badposters have? That said, no system survives the players - ban warp stabs and cloaking in plexes, and farmers will simply take the Walter Islands approach, avoiding fights by parking at 29km from the entrance and mwd'ing away as soon as you land on grid*. Modify plexes to address that, and it will be a matter of days until someone works out how to exploit the system and faction war returns to farmville status. This is a cat and mouse game that CCP can't win, so I'm not surprised they aren't trying. *: Before anyone says "but you can fit a faster ship", you can already use manual de-cloaking, smartbomb gatecamps and multiple scrams to catch cloaky stabbed ships - it's the same core problem: farmers still don't want to fight.
There is no way of forcing players to want to fight.
Simple as that.
Sov is a pve system and it needs to be because any pvp only sov mechinc will be horiibly exploited to a level that will make inferno seem like pocket change and CCP would probably kill it off altogther. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Shadow Adanza
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
64
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 03:37:00 -
[95] - Quote
Cearain wrote: You and most of the gallente posters seem fine with that. The vast majority have given up on caring about this broken system.
I don't think most Gallente posters cared to begin with, tbh.
The station lock-out system sucked for a bit, but I'm growing rather fond of that... watching Caldari militia members warp to station in their pods is now rewarding, you know there's a pod kill coming soon. Hey! You're no zombie! |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
417
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 10:17:00 -
[96] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:
like the pure number of kills would matter. Nobody wants to fight pve ships, pve ships don't want to fight too, still they influence where you can dock and where not. Thats a conflict of interests. I would trade all those pve ships against a few pvp ships any time. but CCP probably looked at the statistics and said, hey FW is growing on popularity, and hey even the number of kills grows. But they don't look at the value of the killed ships or what the situation was as the fight happened. like a farmer who did not alt-tab to the right window fast enough. whats even more funny but a bit off topic: they did the same mistake again. The orbital bombardment destroyers are all pve ships with meta 1 guns + cloak. No mods or skills influence OB. So people simply use 0 risk ships with trial alts for that. Wait till they add some form of rewards and we are in the same situation.
Eh? Pure numbers matters a lot. None of the first 10 kills of his I checked were pve ship, so its logical to assume the same for the rest. And the vast majority of plex farming occurs in backwaters with no stations, precisely because few people care to defend them. If you're letting farmers flip your staging systems, you may be doing something wrong. If OB becomes important, they could just restrict it from trial accounts. But as with current plexing, no one will care about DUST matches fought in backwater systems. |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 10:22:00 -
[97] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Bienator II wrote:
like the pure number of kills would matter. Nobody wants to fight pve ships, pve ships don't want to fight too, still they influence where you can dock and where not. Thats a conflict of interests. I would trade all those pve ships against a few pvp ships any time. but CCP probably looked at the statistics and said, hey FW is growing on popularity, and hey even the number of kills grows. But they don't look at the value of the killed ships or what the situation was as the fight happened. like a farmer who did not alt-tab to the right window fast enough. whats even more funny but a bit off topic: they did the same mistake again. The orbital bombardment destroyers are all pve ships with meta 1 guns + cloak. No mods or skills influence OB. So people simply use 0 risk ships with trial alts for that. Wait till they add some form of rewards and we are in the same situation.
Eh? Pure numbers matters a lot. None of the first 10 kills of his I checked were pve ship, so its logical to assume the same for the rest. And the vast majority of plex farming occurs in backwaters with no stations, precisely because few people care to defend them. If you're letting farmers flip your staging systems, you may be doing something wrong. If OB becomes important, they could just restrict it from trial accounts. But as with current plexing, no one will care about DUST matches fought in backwater systems.
1.) Because I am not fitted to scram triplestabbed farmers. 2.) The only systems where pvp matters are staging systems. That is maybe 5% of the warzone. Rest is farmerama. I am maybe 95% of my time in staging systems. 3.) Even in staging systems I see farmers. I would mostly need 2 points to grab them. That would disable my ship for pvp activity. So again a no go. |
Lin Suizei
129
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 10:50:00 -
[98] - Quote
Takseen wrote:And the vast majority of plex farming occurs in backwaters with no stations, precisely because few people care to defend them.
This is absolutely true, but I don't think the problem is any less severe. Everyone who lives in these backwater systems feels the impact on a day-to-day basis, and while we are indeed fewer in number than the "core" faction war players, I don't feel that makes the problem (faction war mechanics actively encouraging avoiding PvP) any less serious.
That said, if the logic for not fixing poses is "but only a few people use them", I can see why faction war is being left leaking LP everywhere. Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
856
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 13:04:00 -
[99] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Lin Suizei wrote:Cearain wrote:The vast majority have given up on caring about this broken system. Not even a coordinated Gallente push to Tier 5, with the clearly stated intention of getting CCP to fix faction war, can get CCP to act: what hope do we badposters have? That said, no system survives the players - ban warp stabs and cloaking in plexes, and farmers will simply take the Walter Islands approach, avoiding fights by parking at 29km from the entrance and mwd'ing away as soon as you land on grid*. Modify plexes to address that, and it will be a matter of days until someone works out how to exploit the system and faction war returns to farmville status. This is a cat and mouse game that CCP can't win, so I'm not surprised they aren't trying. *: Before anyone says "but you can fit a faster ship", you can already use manual de-cloaking, smartbomb gatecamps and multiple scrams to catch cloaky stabbed ships - it's the same core problem: farmers still don't want to fight. There is no way of forcing players to want to fight. Simple as that..
But you can make the mechanics such that they attract carebears (or pvpers.) The same changes changes that have been proposed for years (notifications and timer rollback) but ignored by ccp would make fw sov a fun pvp mechanic.
Taoist Dragon wrote: Sov is a pve system and it needs to be because any pvp only sov mechinc will be horiibly exploited to a level that will make inferno seem like pocket change and CCP would probably kill it off altogther.
I'm not sure how adding notifications and a timer rollback woudl make fw sov exploited.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
856
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 13:10:00 -
[100] - Quote
Takseen wrote:And the vast majority of plex farming occurs in backwaters with no stations, precisely because few people care to defend them.
Most systems have stations so its wrong to say the vast majority of plexing occurs in systems with no stations.
But again the amin reason no one cares about the sov game is because its a bad game. If the fw sov were a good game then people would do it and care about it.
They don't want to defend them because it is pretty much an impossible and boring task with these mechanics. Change the mechanics and we have lots of pvp, fighting for sov thoughout the warzone. It would be a good game that people would care about. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
228
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 13:17:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Takseen wrote:And the vast majority of plex farming occurs in backwaters with no stations, precisely because few people care to defend them. Most systems have stations so its wrong to say the vast majority of plexing occurs in systems with no stations. But again the amin reason no one cares about the sov game is because its a bad game. If the fw sov were a good game then people would do it and care about it. They don't want to defend them because it is pretty much an impossible and boring task with these mechanics. Change the mechanics and we have lots of pvp, fighting for sov thoughout the warzone. It would be a good game that people would care about.
Depends where you live. Near us there's a ton of worthless systems that just flip back and forth because they aren't worth defending.
Look at Semou, only two stations in the entire constellation; ezzara, sif, raa and oyeman are just wastelands.
And that entire constellation between roush and tara. Virtually no one lives there so even though there are a few station systems there's no point looking after them.
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2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 13:28:00 -
[102] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote: Edit: The difference is the gals somtimes fight and the minnies run away.
That certainly explains when the Minnie/Amarr warzone is almost ENTIRELY Minmatar controlled. Yup, Minmatar just run. Amarr just cry endlessly regardless of what's actually going on. I remember not too long ago Colt died in a plex to our scout, the fight was over a good 20 seconds before any of the rest of the fleet arrived and he still managed to spend a good few minutes crying about blobs and dishonour in local. Broken whinebot is broken.
and whiny butthurt players endlessly paint 3,900+ members of a militia with the color of just one.
broken whinebot truly is broken. |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
228
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 13:30:00 -
[103] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote: Edit: The difference is the gals somtimes fight and the minnies run away.
That certainly explains when the Minnie/Amarr warzone is almost ENTIRELY Minmatar controlled. Yup, Minmatar just run. Amarr just cry endlessly regardless of what's actually going on. I remember not too long ago Colt died in a plex to our scout, the fight was over a good 20 seconds before any of the rest of the fleet arrived and he still managed to spend a good few minutes crying about blobs and dishonour in local. Broken whinebot is broken. and whiny butthurt players endlessly paint 3,900+ members of a militia with the color of just one. broken whinebot truly is broken.
"Unlike ostension, which is the act of showing or pointing to a sample, exemplification is possession of a property plus reference to its label (Goodman, 1976). For example, if a color sample has the property labelled 'green', then the color sample exemplifies green. Basically, possession of a property amounts to being referred to by its label.
Exemplification means using examples to explain, convince, or amuse. Lending interest and information to writing, exemplification is one of the most common and effective ways to developing ideas. Examples may be developed in a sentence or more, or they may be only phrases or even single words, as in the following sentence: "Children like packaged breakfast foods, such as Wheaties, Cheerios, and Rice Krispies.""
|
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
99
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 13:51:00 -
[104] - Quote
FW is really total broken sh... 30minutes gaming. 4 targets engaged in total. Every target was stabbed and minmatar^^ Have given it up for today. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1198
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 14:05:00 -
[105] - Quote
Posting in another "I'm too much of a ***** to look for fights where pvp'ers live and am complaining that there are farmers in backwater systems" thread. |
Mehashi 'Kho
Idiot with a gun
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 14:34:00 -
[106] - Quote
I don't think it's broken I just think some people have difficulties accepting the realities of the situation. IE - people have different motives at different times for their actions.
There are 3 ways I plex, depending on my objective. I am not alone in this.
Situation 1 - I have just lost a ship and have no replacement / account needs a plex / sudden monetary need.
I will use a ridiculously fast aligning ship, I will position myself at a safe distance from the warpin, and should anything appear that I don't believe has a geniune interest in contesting the plex I will leave, and run another plex or return as soon as possible. You can feel free to say that this should be nerfed but here is my angle. I don't enjoy long periods of pve, I need to replace X, to replace X will take me say 1 hour if I run 3 plexes. If I have a fight there is a chance I will die, if I die it takes me 20 mins to go reship, and now i'm looking at an hour and a half of pve before I can get back to what I want to be doing. Ergo, having a fight when I have a higher objective only delays my objective, result - evasive playstyle for that period.
Situation 2 - I care about the system and intend to (de)contest it. More common.
Here I use a 2 ship combo to speed the influence up, I will have my main in a pvp ship ready to fight for plexes if needed, but I will also have an alt running down timers while I am not under threat. If something appears on short scan to my alt I warp him out and bring in my main from wherever he was to have the fight, when I replace my gfx card this will change but only in as much as the alt will fight his own fights, while my main continues to run his own beacon (I currently have to tab one out). The key thing here that is relevant to the farmers not being active participants is - I run the plex with my main, but because there is no way to trade LP in this game and I am a pirate (making it hard to cash in LP), I WARP MY ALT IN TO COLLECT THE PAYOUT. I have capitalised the important part. This character is very active in fighting the warzone but I doubt you'll ever see him on the top VP board because LP logged on this character is hard to use.
Situation 3 - The most common, I'm just out in a cheap ship looking for 1v1s or small scale pewpew.
More or less speaks for itself, I'll take a ship and run up and down pipes, sometimes i'll open a plex and wait for something to come to me, more often I invade open plexes (people tend to take fights more if you let them set up first). If i'm setting up inside I either snuggle the beacon or pull range, as is appropriate for the ship i've decided to lose that day.
My point here is that the fuss about farming invokes a false dichotomy. IE you are either a pvper or a farmer. I see myself every day - squids in the warzone, who I KNOW are active pvpers - and they run when I land on scans. You know why I don't b*tch about that? Because I know they are probably replacing a ship or saving for a new pod, and there is a fair chance i'll see them in space when they have it. Of course there are alt's of people out of fw, and yeah some of them have an influence on a few systems no-one lives in, but the benefit to pvp in fw low sec as a whole radically obscures that in my opinion.
I agree the system isn't perfect, but it's pretty bloody awesome if you ask me. Timer rollbacks seem like a pretty sound idea, multiple spawns have had a good argument too. I can't say I agree though that a non player owned entity with no investment should be supplying intel (quite different from a player owned asset like a POCO or POS), so I can't support the notification for plexes idea. Either way, if I log on and decide I want to make ISK, that is available to me, and if as last night I log on and want a fight, I had to fly for no more than 3 or 4 minutes before I got one. If I want to fight no-one can force me to pve, and if I want to make isk, no-one can force me to fight. FW is awesome, even if it's not the utopia you had in mind. |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 14:46:00 -
[107] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:2manno Asp wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote: Edit: The difference is the gals somtimes fight and the minnies run away.
That certainly explains when the Minnie/Amarr warzone is almost ENTIRELY Minmatar controlled. Yup, Minmatar just run. Amarr just cry endlessly regardless of what's actually going on. I remember not too long ago Colt died in a plex to our scout, the fight was over a good 20 seconds before any of the rest of the fleet arrived and he still managed to spend a good few minutes crying about blobs and dishonour in local. Broken whinebot is broken. and whiny butthurt players endlessly paint 3,900+ members of a militia with the color of just one. broken whinebot truly is broken. "Unlike ostension, which is the act of showing or pointing to a sample, exemplification is possession of a property plus reference to its label (Goodman, 1976). For example, if a color sample has the property labelled 'green', then the color sample exemplifies green. Basically, possession of a property amounts to being referred to by its label. Exemplification means using examples to explain, convince, or amuse. Lending interest and information to writing, exemplification is one of the most common and effective ways to developing ideas. Examples may be developed in a sentence or more, or they may be only phrases or even single words, as in the following sentence: "Children like packaged breakfast foods, such as Wheaties, Cheerios, and Rice Krispies.""
or more simply, you're old fashioned prejudiced.
Prejudice: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics. - Mirriam Webster, m-w.com.
pretty much exemplifies the whiny butthurt players that endlessy paint 3,900+ members of a milita with the color of just one. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
856
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 14:56:00 -
[108] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:Cearain wrote:Takseen wrote:And the vast majority of plex farming occurs in backwaters with no stations, precisely because few people care to defend them. Most systems have stations so its wrong to say the vast majority of plexing occurs in systems with no stations. But again the amin reason no one cares about the sov game is because its a bad game. If the fw sov were a good game then people would do it and care about it. They don't want to defend them because it is pretty much an impossible and boring task with these mechanics. Change the mechanics and we have lots of pvp, fighting for sov thoughout the warzone. It would be a good game that people would care about. Depends where you live. Near us there's a ton of worthless systems that just flip back and forth because they aren't worth defending. Look at Semou, only two stations in the entire constellation; ezzara, sif, raa and oyeman are just wastelands. And that entire constellation between roush and tara. Virtually no one lives there so even though there are a few station systems there's no point looking after them.
I was just pointing out that most systems in fw space have a station, so the no station excuse doesn't really work.
Its true that fw players do not inhabit as many systems as they used to. This is due largely to station lockouts. So yes large swaths of fw space are relatively uninhabited by fw players.
But my point is that if fighting for sov throughout the war zone was fun, people would do it, and they would care about it. But the main reason no one cares now is because it is broken. People care about winning good games. People don't care about winning bad games.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
229
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 15:02:00 -
[109] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:or more simply, you're old fashioned prejudiced.
Prejudice: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics. - Mirriam Webster, m-w.com.
pretty much exemplifies the whiny butthurt players that endlessy paint 3,900+ members of a milita with the color of just one.
I've been shooting amarrs for going on 4 years. At this point you're all just orange buttons that cause hilarious crying in local when i press them.
I'm fairly sure most of you aren't even sentient.
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
857
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 15:06:00 -
[110] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Posting in another "I'm too much of a ***** to look for fights where pvp'ers live and am complaining that there are farmers in backwater systems" thread.
Its another thread about carebear's, hide and seek plexing, deciding sov in 90% of fw systems. You clearly don't mind this. We know, as long as gallente can outblob the enemy in your base system, you don't care.
But there are allot of players who disagree with you, and so the threads will no doubt continue.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1198
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 15:42:00 -
[111] - Quote
Cearain wrote:posting ignorance again... You complain about people not wanting to have fun fighting for sov, and yet there were 600 kills in the Nenna, Enaluri, Akidagi cluster in the past 24 hours - most of which was plex fighting.
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2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 16:05:00 -
[112] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:2manno Asp wrote:or more simply, you're old fashioned prejudiced.
Prejudice: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics. - Mirriam Webster, m-w.com.
pretty much exemplifies the whiny butthurt players that endlessy paint 3,900+ members of a milita with the color of just one. I've been shooting amarrs for going on 4 years. At this point you're all just orange buttons that cause hilarious crying in local when i press them. I'm fairly sure most of you aren't even sentient.
well i can't speak for most of them. i don't know most of them.
but i can tell you aren't. |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
230
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 16:23:00 -
[113] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:2manno Asp wrote:or more simply, you're old fashioned prejudiced.
Prejudice: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics. - Mirriam Webster, m-w.com.
pretty much exemplifies the whiny butthurt players that endlessy paint 3,900+ members of a milita with the color of just one. I've been shooting amarrs for going on 4 years. At this point you're all just orange buttons that cause hilarious crying in local when i press them. I'm fairly sure most of you aren't even sentient. well i can't speak for most of them. i don't know most of them. but i can tell you aren't.
Ooooh, a response. This gives me a chance to try out my new prototype Amarrian Response Generator.
*shakes amarrbot3000*
"all signs point to banana"?
Hmmm, that doesn't seem to work so well.
*shakes amarrbot3000 again*
"HERP U CANT FIET U JUST FARM IN BLOB LOLOL"
that's a bit better. Petulant, whiny and basically irrelevant to the subject at hand. Perfect amarr insult :)
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Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 17:21:00 -
[114] - Quote
Quote:Posting in another "I'm too much of a ***** to look for fights where pvp'ers live and am complaining that there are farmers in backwater systems" thread.
Yes because Enaluri+ Nennamalia and all systems 1 jump around are backwater systems^^ Congrats. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1198
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 17:31:00 -
[115] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Quote:Posting in another "I'm too much of a ***** to look for fights where pvp'ers live and am complaining that there are farmers in backwater systems" thread. Yes because Enaluri+ Nennamalia and all systems 1 jump around are backwater systems^^ Congrats. I guess we agree that you know where to find fights while you are online. Your issue is that you don't enjoy chasing minimum skill alts all across the map.
So, perhaps you should spend time where people pvp and have fun while you are in-game. (?)
Edit: I guess you are saying that you're the only person in Eve that can't find a fight in a three system cluster where there have been 600 kills in the past 24 hours. |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 17:39:00 -
[116] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:2manno Asp wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:2manno Asp wrote:or more simply, you're old fashioned prejudiced.
Prejudice: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics. - Mirriam Webster, m-w.com.
pretty much exemplifies the whiny butthurt players that endlessy paint 3,900+ members of a milita with the color of just one. I've been shooting amarrs for going on 4 years. At this point you're all just orange buttons that cause hilarious crying in local when i press them. I'm fairly sure most of you aren't even sentient. well i can't speak for most of them. i don't know most of them. but i can tell you aren't. Ooooh, a response. This gives me a chance to try out my new prototype Amarrian Response Generator. *shakes amarrbot3000* "all signs point to banana"? Hmmm, that doesn't seem to work so well. *shakes amarrbot3000 again* "HERP U CANT FIET U JUST FARM IN BLOB LOLOL" that's a bit better. Petulant, whiny and basically irrelevant to the subject at hand. Perfect amarr insult :)
lol, not getting your way, so the lower level insults come out eh? what's next? you banged my mom jokes? is this is you showing how you can dish out insults, but not take them?
or is it more like, one minmater pilot insults the entire amarr milita and he's lauded a conqueror, one amarr pilot stands up to him, and he's an idiot (or was it not sentient)?
and you talk about whining, whiny man. your perfect hypocrisy is perfect. not that i expect you to get it, or stop insulting people, or to quit whining. wouldn't you have to be sentient for that? i fully expect some new insults to drive home the frustration of how ugly it is to look in your mirror.
"HERP U CANT FIET U JUST FARM IN BLOB LOLOL". whiny tears of prejudiced, post wasters are my food. |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
231
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 17:43:00 -
[117] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:2manno Asp wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:2manno Asp wrote:or more simply, you're old fashioned prejudiced.
Prejudice: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics. - Mirriam Webster, m-w.com.
pretty much exemplifies the whiny butthurt players that endlessy paint 3,900+ members of a milita with the color of just one. I've been shooting amarrs for going on 4 years. At this point you're all just orange buttons that cause hilarious crying in local when i press them. I'm fairly sure most of you aren't even sentient. well i can't speak for most of them. i don't know most of them. but i can tell you aren't. Ooooh, a response. This gives me a chance to try out my new prototype Amarrian Response Generator. *shakes amarrbot3000* "all signs point to banana"? Hmmm, that doesn't seem to work so well. *shakes amarrbot3000 again* "HERP U CANT FIET U JUST FARM IN BLOB LOLOL" that's a bit better. Petulant, whiny and basically irrelevant to the subject at hand. Perfect amarr insult :) lol, not getting your way, so the lower level insults come out eh? what's next? you banged my mom jokes? is this is you showing how you can dish out insults, but not take them? or is it more like, one minmater pilot insults the entire amarr milita and he's lauded a conqueror, one amarr pilot stands up to him, and he's an idiot (or was it not sentient)? and you talk about whining, whiny man. your perfect hypocrisy is perfect. not that i expect you to get it, or stop insulting people, or to quit whining. wouldn't you have to be sentient for that? i fully expect some new insults to drive home the frustration of how ugly it is to look in your mirror. "HERP U CANT FIET U JUST FARM IN BLOB LOLOL". whiny tears of prejudiced, post wasters are my food.
Once again, thank you for neatly encapsulating my point. :)
|
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 17:59:00 -
[118] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:Once again, thank you for neatly encapsulating my point. :)
putting you in your place is what i do.
think of me as your savior, sweetie. |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
232
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 18:10:00 -
[119] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:Once again, thank you for neatly encapsulating my point. :)
putting you in your place is what i do. think of me as your savior, sweetie.
^_^
Keep telling yourself that. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
|
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
419
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 18:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Exploration is really total broken sh... 30minutes gaming. 4 unknown sigs scanned down in total. Every sig was a wormhole to a C5. Have given it up for today.
Seriously though, you will get dry spells now and then. And its not like if you made FW bunkers uncloak and infinipoint anyone who landed on them while personally sending a text message alert to every member of the opposing miltia with their ship type and fitting that they'd be full of targets. I suppose no targets would be less frustrating than targets that turn out to be false leads. But it'd also ruin things for people who use the LP to fund their pvp. |
|
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 18:21:00 -
[121] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:2manno Asp wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:Once again, thank you for neatly encapsulating my point. :)
putting you in your place is what i do. think of me as your savior, sweetie. ^_^ Keep telling yourself that. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
at least that's not hypocritical of you. playing delusional is consistent with pretending how you like to be mentally spanked.
hey, i might make stuff up too if it started to hurt that much. everyone has a breaking point. |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
232
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 18:38:00 -
[122] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:hey, i might make stuff up too if it started to hurt that much. everyone has a breaking point.
Interesting you should bring up breaking points. How many stabbed farming frigates do amarrs have to fail to catch before something snaps in their likkle brains and they start leaving weepy threads about how FW is howwibly bwoken and CCP are teh ebul minmatarz and everything is a massive conspiracy?
It's like you all have a broken hive mind thingy going on...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=221355&find=unread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=218860&find=unread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=218479&find=unread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=217155&find=unread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213296&find=unread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213388&find=unread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206666&find=unread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=215614&find=unread
and that's just the first couple of pages.
Even threads only tangentially connected to FW turn into amarr cryathons. Maybe you should start a charity drive and you could monetise your tears a bit. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance 24eme Legion Etrangere
98
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 19:36:00 -
[123] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:*poasting in amarrtard weeping thread*
Didn't see you complaining about farming when amarrs held most of metro and the whole auga/dal constellation due to the farmarr alt horde.
Maybe your shoes have strategically placed spikes so they make you weep piteously only when you put them on the other foot or something.
Hypocrite.
i know you meant to say "when amarr held metro due to minmatar giving up on plexing for a few weeks" |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
857
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 20:51:00 -
[124] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:
Should it be any surprise that the militia that always has the most kills per player wants fw sov to be more about pvp?
And the faction that has the most lp per player wants it to remain carebear heaven.
Everyone who isn't interested in joining the carebear race, called fw sov, is just a crybaby according to you? Ok whatever. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
339
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 21:08:00 -
[125] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:
Mach you have way too much time on your hands That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Perkin Warbeck
Amarrian Space Poodles 24eme Legion Etrangere
123
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 00:47:00 -
[126] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Farmers gonna farm :(
This. Farmers are going to farm irresepective of what instalocking, webbifying, decloaking, NPC boosting, timer reducing gismos you put in a plex to try and stop them entering or leaving ever again (unless it's in a capsule after being forced to fight that off grid boosted 'leet' PvPer who has been playing since EvE began).
The only thing that will stop a farmer farming FW is to reduce the amount of LP rewards available for plexing. Period. No other solution will prevent them because, as we have seen, they will just circumvent whatever 'fix' CCP implements if, god forbid, they actually listens to the suggestions in some of these threads.
Reduce the amount of LP you recieve when completing any plex to that received for completing a level 1 or 2 security mission and then see how many farmers are left in the warzone. Not many I would think.
But then ask yourselves the question - do you actually want that? Should everyone in FW have to find an alternative source of income to sustain themselves? It's no skin off my back but what about the new/casual player that may be attracted to FW and then leaves after a month because they have lost 20+ ships and can't afford to continue?
I hate farmers. They make a mockery of the sovereignty mechanism that attracted me to FW in the first place. But actually addressing the root of the problem may mean that FW becomes, once again, a backwater of EvE that noone really cares about. And then there will be even less targets. |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
187
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:09:00 -
[127] - Quote
i think the simplest thing to do is pursue a solution that trades the payout amounts of plex rewards & pvp kills.
so a 20k LP kill instead of a 1.5k LP kill. a 1.5k LP plex instead of a 20k LP plex.
make it so people can farm LP by pvp'ing, instead of plexing.
or is this too easly gamed? |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
263
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:17:00 -
[128] - Quote
Remember when Goons made grillions on Faction Warfare?
It's a bit like that. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
857
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:25:00 -
[129] - Quote
Perkin Warbeck wrote:chatgris wrote:Farmers gonna farm :( This. Farmers are going to farm irresepective of what instalocking, webbifying, decloaking, NPC boosting, timer reducing gismos you put in a plex to try and stop them entering or leaving ever again (unless it's in a capsule after being forced to fight that off grid boosted 'leet' PvPer who has been playing since EvE began). The only thing that will stop a farmer farming FW is to reduce the amount of LP rewards available for plexing. Period. No other solution will prevent them because, as we have seen, they will just circumvent whatever 'fix' CCP implements if, god forbid, they actually listens to the suggestions in some of these threads. Reduce the amount of LP you recieve when completing any plex to that received for completing a level 1 or 2 security mission and then see how many farmers are left in the warzone. Not many I would think..
The issue is technically not farming. The alts running defensive plexes in empty hulls aren't really making much isk. The problem is, that the most effective way to gain sov for your faction is to avoid pvp and use a pve ship.
This was the same problem before inferno when people got no lp for plexing at all. This was the core of the problem for fw sov and it was never addressed.
You seem to think taking away isk will make fw sov a pvp game. I can tell you there were people who were saying the opposite. They were saying just give us isk consequences and it will make it a pvp game. Basically you are both wrong. Fiddling with isk payouts didn't really change a thing.
They need to make the game such that the most effective way to win sov for your militia is to stand and fight instead of always running and hiding. The timer rollbacks and notifications will do that. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
GavinGoodrich
Okkamas Razor Southern Renegades
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 01:36:00 -
[130] - Quote
There's too many systems for the # of people living out here to handle like it's WW2 or a game of risk or something. There are plenty of areas in the "warzone" during any major war where a single shot was never fired, a life was never taken. Even in a gaming environment, hell *especially* in a gaming environment, it's no different! Expect areas to be quiet, expect other areas to be hot. Who cares if 17 backwater systems never see a shot fired? That's part of war, and that's a part of this game too! Everybody wins if we can all make isk and get pvp in the areas we actually care about.
Hell...post-retribution has seen more lowsec pew pew than i've seen when FW first came out and there were hundreds fighting hundreds. It's GREAT right now. Maybe a tweak here and there like a timer rollback, but overall this is way way better than it was |
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
857
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 02:32:00 -
[131] - Quote
GavinGoodrich wrote:There's too many systems for the # of people living out here to handle like it's WW2 or a game of risk or something.
there are 170 systems and about 1900 fw players. The rpoblem isn't too few players but its too few pvpers.
GavinGoodrich wrote: There are plenty of areas in the "warzone" during any major war where a single shot was never fired, a life was never taken. Even in a gaming environment, hell *especially* in a gaming environment, it's no different! Expect areas to be quiet, expect other areas to be hot. Who cares if 17 backwater systems never see a shot fired? That's part of war, and that's a part of this game too! Everybody wins if we can all make isk and get pvp in the areas we actually care about.
Hell...post-retribution has seen more lowsec pew pew than i've seen when FW first came out and there were hundreds fighting hundreds. It's GREAT right now. Maybe a tweak here and there like a timer rollback, but overall this is way way better than it was
Its really more like 10 base systems and no one cares about the other 160 systems.
Yes I agree that low sec is much better now than it was before. But fw sov is still broken. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
299
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 04:25:00 -
[132] - Quote
Cearain wrote:GavinGoodrich wrote:There's too many systems for the # of people living out here to handle like it's WW2 or a game of risk or something. there are 170 systems and about 1900 fw players. The problem isn't too few players but its too few pvpers. GavinGoodrich wrote: There are plenty of areas in the "warzone" during any major war where a single shot was never fired, a life was never taken. Even in a gaming environment, hell *especially* in a gaming environment, it's no different! Expect areas to be quiet, expect other areas to be hot. Who cares if 17 backwater systems never see a shot fired? That's part of war, and that's a part of this game too! Everybody wins if we can all make isk and get pvp in the areas we actually care about.
Hell...post-retribution has seen more lowsec pew pew than i've seen when FW first came out and there were hundreds fighting hundreds. It's GREAT right now. Maybe a tweak here and there like a timer rollback, but overall this is way way better than it was
Its really more like 10 base systems and no one cares about the other 160 systems. Yes I agree that low sec is much better now than it was before. But fw sov is still broken.
Sov is only broken in places.
The Cal/Gal warzone is way too big. It's hard to care about a FW system that's so far away you might only go there once a year.
However - in the main base systems - the sov war is fought by pvpers. So FW sov does work if the conditions are right.
It's just how do you get it to work that way everywhere?
I personally don't think FW can ever be balanced with the 2 different sized war zones.
Amarr/Derpmatar war zone is about the right size.
Tier5 for Cal/Gal is not really possible. Just the LP needed into the Hubs + dplexing is double.
Caldari were tier 3 and advancing a few weeks ago but due to the smaller wz - it's was faster, easier and cheaper for the farmers to go to Minny and push a tier 5 than keep pushing Caldari to 4.
So no matter what happens in Cal/Gal - at about the Tier3 mark - the farmers will bail and push the other warzone.
So a minmatar T5 isn't that impressive when it means they plexed and dumped about the same LP the Caldari or Gallente have to do/dump just for T3. Farmers gonna farm and swap sides until the Minny/Amarr wz takes the same effort to obtain a high tier in as the Caldari/SmellyFrog one. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
339
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 06:15:00 -
[133] - Quote
reduce incentive for people to diagonal plex.
If you plex in cal space as a minnie player you get Gal LP at the rate of the Gal teirs not their home teirs. Simple. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
David Devant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
54
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 09:59:00 -
[134] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:*poasting in amarrtard weeping thread*
Didn't see you complaining about farming when amarrs held most of metro and the whole auga/dal constellation due to the farmarr alt horde.
Maybe your shoes have strategically placed spikes so they make you weep piteously only when you put them on the other foot or something.
Hypocrite. i know you meant to say "when amarr held metro due to minmatar giving up on plexing for a few weeks"
http://rust-in-pieces.org/kills/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=31905
Proof that you are the werst |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
557
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 10:41:00 -
[135] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Sov is only broken in places.... Simplistic evaluation, but fairly accurate nonetheless. It all comes back to farmers vs. PvP'ers, outside of the HQ spheres (HQ plus 1-2 jumps) there really is not much in the way of action .. "out there" it is whack-a-mole .. and PvP centrics just don't have the patience or indeed time (gotta meet ones quota!) to chase around after stabbed, gunless cloaking alts. = Autorun timers to alleviate. Will help make the invested time a little more worth it.
Another way (just came to me .. gotta love the brain smellies) to condense the action and hamstring farming is a variation of the frontline concept, reduce the LP gained the farther one gets from a 'friendly' system when O-plexing and the reverse when D-plexing .. say -33% per gate, so three jumps deep and you are plexing for glory (and future LP plexing) only. Obviously a huge disadvantage to a steam-rolled militia so combine with a reversed tier (ie. +225% when at tier1) increase in VP (not LP!) gain from plexing .. it is the kind of diminishing return that should been introduced rather than the silly iHub-LP tax increase.
Taoist Dragon wrote:reduce incentive for people to diagonal plex.
If you plex in cal space as a minnie player you get Gal LP at the rate of the Gal teirs not their home teirs. Simple. Would certainly help with migration pattern of the farming swarm, but why not just remove diagonal LP entirely and be done with it? We have been crossing the zones from the beginning but up until LP-for-everything it was to actually assist the ally, with bodies in combat first and on buttons second, not for personal gain (well, apart from the funzor). |
Perkin Warbeck
Amarrian Space Poodles 24eme Legion Etrangere
124
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 12:22:00 -
[136] - Quote
Cearain wrote: They need to make the game such that the most effective way to win sov for your militia is to stand and fight instead of always running and hiding. The timer rollbacks and notifications will do that.
Timer rollbacks and notifications won't make anyone care about sovereignty and they will not stop farmers. No one is going to rush from Arzad to Avenod because Farmer X has opened a novice plex and I know that most PvPers will never stick around in a system to chase cloaky, stabbed alts out of every plex let alone run them all down. Timer rollbacks just delays the farmers job a little.
The fact is most people in the militias only care about warzone control because it directly affects the amount of LP they earn and many will only defend the systems they live in because they are afraid of station lock outs. You only have to smell the mass hysteria in militia when Kamela reaches 50% contested to see that.
I actually think Veshtas' proposal is not bad. Introducing the concept of a 'front line' in the warzone and reducing the tiered benefits does resolve a lot of problems with farming in quiet systems (although the amount of camping and blobbing in those front line systems would be horrendous). But i still think that to remove farming you have to remove the motivation for doing it and a farmers only motivation is LP. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
558
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 12:56:00 -
[137] - Quote
Perkin Warbeck wrote:...I actually think Veshtas' proposal is not bad. Introducing the concept of a 'front line' in the warzone and reducing the tiered benefits does resolve a lot of problems with farming in quiet systems (although the amount of camping and blobbing in those front line systems would be horrendous). But i still think that to remove farming you have to remove the motivation for doing it and a farmers only motivation is LP. Clarifications: - Tier benefits will still be in full effect, it will just add a downside to being big and fat .. Empires fall when they overextend .. except in Eve By doing a reverse type thing it will be almost impossible to get and maintain a tier 4-5 without a round the clock superiority both on button and in space. - "Blobbing" will not happen as such as the die-hard farmers will accept the LP hit and plex away from the 'front' (in my example they'd prob. be doing it at -66%, or in other words two systems over). - Plexing for control would remain viable in all of the warzone but at reduced/zero LP if a deep system, so the old FW cadre can still play their drama games and get some chest thumping done. If one manages to go deep it opens up a whole new plexing ground so there'd be value in a plexing push for 0 LP.
Hub/HQ systems and the connecting lanes have always been the most active, no reason for the farmers to be denied the pleasure that activity brings
|
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1127
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:08:00 -
[138] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Remember when Goons made grillions on Faction Warfare?
It's a bit like that.
And yet your group still can't invest in a booster alt. |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:20:00 -
[139] - Quote
Quote:And yet your group still can't invest in a booster alt.
Maybe because they want to get a good fight instead simply pwn someone with 5k m/s merlins?
On topic: Perkin is quite right but something like a frontline would mean only permablobs. Additional guerilla tactics for factions with less numbers would be impossible. We shouldn-¦t forget that amarr until january only survived because of guerilla tactics. The minnies blobbed amarr simply away. Most people in militia agreed we may not give them a direct target for their blobs and were doing good with it. Don-¦t know how many systems they lost during that time they concentrated on Kam. But it were many. A frontline IS a direct target for the BLOB. FW would get like 0.0 and I hate killmails with 30+ people. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
292
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:45:00 -
[140] - Quote
GavinGoodrich wrote:There's too many systems for the # of people living out here to handle like it's WW2 or a game of risk or something. There are plenty of areas in the "warzone" during any major war where a single shot was never fired, a life was never taken. Even in a gaming environment, hell *especially* in a gaming environment, it's no different! Expect areas to be quiet, expect other areas to be hot. Who cares if 17 backwater systems never see a shot fired? That's part of war, and that's a part of this game too! Everybody wins if we can all make isk and get pvp in the areas we actually care about.
Hell...post-retribution has seen more lowsec pew pew than i've seen when FW first came out and there were hundreds fighting hundreds. It's GREAT right now. Maybe a tweak here and there like a timer rollback, but overall this is way way better than it was
Completely agree. The main issue with the impact of famers is that WZC is determined by all systems equally and that they're bloody annoying to fight. Granted, you can't force people to fight and everyone capable of using Dscan will be able to run, stabs or not. I'd think about lowering the differences between the WZC levels and try to put them on a sliding scale and not just 5 absolute tiers, weigh active systems (kills/isk destroyed) over backwater systems regarding their WZC points or decouple defensive plexing and PvP kill LP from the warzone control LP modifier. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:45:00 -
[141] - Quote
Perkin Warbeck wrote:Cearain wrote: They need to make the game such that the most effective way to win sov for your militia is to stand and fight instead of always running and hiding. The timer rollbacks and notifications will do that. Timer rollbacks and notifications won't make anyone care about sovereignty and they will not stop farmers.
Yes it will because fw soveriegnty will no longer be the broken carebear race it is now. No one cares about fw sov because it is broken. Once it is fixed and it becomes a fun/good game more people will want to win it.
If you ever roam you will find that only about 1/3-1/5 of systems have someone plexing in them at any given time. That means that a notfication system would make policing your space at least 3-5xs as efficient. Combined with the effect of timer rollbacks means that it will become more efficient to stay and fight for a plex than it is to run and hide in a different plex.
Perkin Warbeck wrote: No one is going to rush from Arzad to Avenod because Farmer X has opened a novice plex and I know that most PvPers will never stick around in a system to chase cloaky, stabbed alts out of every plex let alone run them all down.
Nice strawman. Why would someone from Arzad go to avenod? Avenod is indeed pretty out of the way but even so it is only 1or2 jumps from 7 other systems. So if a militia had a single pvper in any of those 7 systems they could make sure that the rabbits don't capture that system.
The guy in arzad would be 1-2 jumps from 9 systems so he would likely have his hands full pvping for sov in that area.
The notifications (combined with a rollback mechanic) would give the plexers in each militia enough efficincy that they would only need about 10 active pvpers spread out in the warzone to effecively stop all hide and seek plexing.
Perkin Warbeck wrote: Timer rollbacks just delays the farmers job a little..
Its unclear how much of an impact this will have. Its possible that delay in farming will turn the tide such that fw sov will be most efficiently done in a pvp ship. I tend to doubt that and think they will also need to do notifications. But we shall see.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance 24eme Legion Etrangere
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 13:56:00 -
[142] - Quote
David Devant wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:*poasting in amarrtard weeping thread*
Didn't see you complaining about farming when amarrs held most of metro and the whole auga/dal constellation due to the farmarr alt horde.
Maybe your shoes have strategically placed spikes so they make you weep piteously only when you put them on the other foot or something.
Hypocrite. i know you meant to say "when amarr held metro due to minmatar giving up on plexing for a few weeks" http://rust-in-pieces.org/kills/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=31905Proof that you are the werst
only 10 people on my lossmail im the werst |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 14:00:00 -
[143] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain wrote:GavinGoodrich wrote:There's too many systems for the # of people living out here to handle like it's WW2 or a game of risk or something. there are 170 systems and about 1900 fw players. The problem isn't too few players but its too few pvpers. GavinGoodrich wrote: There are plenty of areas in the "warzone" during any major war where a single shot was never fired, a life was never taken. Even in a gaming environment, hell *especially* in a gaming environment, it's no different! Expect areas to be quiet, expect other areas to be hot. Who cares if 17 backwater systems never see a shot fired? That's part of war, and that's a part of this game too! Everybody wins if we can all make isk and get pvp in the areas we actually care about.
Hell...post-retribution has seen more lowsec pew pew than i've seen when FW first came out and there were hundreds fighting hundreds. It's GREAT right now. Maybe a tweak here and there like a timer rollback, but overall this is way way better than it was
Its really more like 10 base systems and no one cares about the other 160 systems. Yes I agree that low sec is much better now than it was before. But fw sov is still broken. Sov is only broken in places. The Cal/Gal warzone is way too big. It's hard to care about a FW system that's so far away you might only go there once a year.
Notifications would make pvpers about 3-5xs as efficient as they are now. Combined with the added inefficncy carebears would get from a timer rollback and we would have what we need. Namely fw sov would be more efficiently done if you can stay and fight for your plex instead of constantly running and hiding.
About 10 pvpers could prevent rabbits from flipping systems in the entire caldari gallente front, if they had notifications and a timer rollback mechanic. They could spread out and would generally be only 3 jumps from any system. Hence they could effectively shut down any rabbits that are not willing to stay and fight.
IbanezLaney wrote: However - in the main base systems - the sov war is fought by pvpers. So FW sov does work if the conditions are right.
Even in the base systems there are players defensive plexing with alts. Even in the main base systems you can run a plex and never get a fight. They will just wait until you leave and get their defensive plexers out there. I posted the killmails of the stabbed ships in these systems people supposedly care about but that appearantly violates the rules.
Faction war used to have players who liked the sov system because the side that didn't have enough players to outblob the other side could spread out in the warzone and do some damage.
Now we only hear that there are 3-5 systems that everyone trys to outblob the other in and the other 90% of space is farmville. Null sec lite has arrived.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Princess Nexxala
quantum cats syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
338
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 14:47:00 -
[144] - Quote
No it wouldn't, most people would just turn the notifications off to prevent the constant annoyance. FYI people don't give a **** about sov unless they live there. A notification system will not change that.
Cearain wrote: Notifications would make pvpers about 3-5xs as efficient as they are now. Combined with the added inefficncy carebears would get from a timer rollback and we would have what we need. Namely fw sov would be more efficiently done if you can stay and fight for your plex instead of constantly running and hiding.
About 10 pvpers could prevent rabbits from flipping systems in the entire caldari gallente front, if they had notifications and a timer rollback mechanic. They could spread out and would generally be only 3 jumps from any system. Hence they could effectively shut down any rabbits that are not willing to stay and fight.
derp? |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
194
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 14:54:00 -
[145] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Again a "kill all farmers thread".
FW is still broken like hell. I changed militia from amarr to caldari. I really got sick with farmatar militia. And what do I see in cal/gal fw? Farmatars everywhere. And do not tell me that are all alts. There are enough farmatar from well known minnie (sometimes even pvp!) corps (epta, true horde). I know CCP give a damn f... about fw actually. But the system is so broken that it really hurts. Everywhere are stabbed runaway minmatars farming the hell out of the warzone. Yes I mean the cal/gal warzone! Because these nasty cicadas have alredy farmed amarr/minmatar warzone down. PVP has almost absolutely NO influence on warzone control So CCP made fw like a war you win the best without fighting and where the best solution is to run away. That is damn /&%"&/-º
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
Edit: YES I AM RAGING!!!! I see here sometimes more minnies than gals in cal/gal fw. The difference is the gals somtimes fight and the minnies run away.
Edit2: To Mnemic: Next gate camp you can make in cal/gal wz. There are more minnies here than in amarr wz^^
I told you. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:02:00 -
[146] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:No it wouldn't, most people would just turn the notifications off to prevent the constant annoyance. FYI people don't give a **** about sov unless they live there. A notification system will not change that. Cearain wrote: Notifications would make pvpers about 3-5xs as efficient as they are now. Combined with the added inefficncy carebears would get from a timer rollback and we would have what we need. Namely fw sov would be more efficiently done if you can stay and fight for your plex instead of constantly running and hiding.
About 10 pvpers could prevent rabbits from flipping systems in the entire caldari gallente front, if they had notifications and a timer rollback mechanic. They could spread out and would generally be only 3 jumps from any system. Hence they could effectively shut down any rabbits that are not willing to stay and fight.
Again the reason people don't care about winning sov in fw is because it's broken. If it were fun and a good game people would try to win it.
Even if most people turned the notifications off that wouldn't matter. We don't need 10 thousand people. As long as about 10 people on each side kept them on and spread out in an organized way the rabbit plexing would end. If you could filter the notifications to give you notices of say 3-5 jumps then there would likely be many times that number keeping them on. They would be the ones getting the most frequent and best pvp.
You could continue to camp gates in sensor boosted thrashers, or whatever, so there is no need to be so negative. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1235
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:04:00 -
[147] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:No it wouldn't, most people would just turn the notifications off to prevent the constant annoyance. FYI people don't give a **** about sov unless they live there. A notification system will not change that. Cearain wrote: Notifications would make pvpers about 3-5xs as efficient as they are now. Combined with the added inefficncy carebears would get from a timer rollback and we would have what we need. Namely fw sov would be more efficiently done if you can stay and fight for your plex instead of constantly running and hiding.
About 10 pvpers could prevent rabbits from flipping systems in the entire caldari gallente front, if they had notifications and a timer rollback mechanic. They could spread out and would generally be only 3 jumps from any system. Hence they could effectively shut down any rabbits that are not willing to stay and fight.
I don't think Cearain quite gets the fact that those notifications will, indeed, just be shut off (just llike that Safety nonsense). More efficient? Not in the slightest. There are some who INTENTIONALLY light up every plex in surrounding systems before they start plexing, just to keep the hunters, FW or not, busy for a while. Find enough empty plexes and they either just move on or break out the probes (in which case they can be seen). Light 'em all up, and you NEED a crap-ton of people in systems with more than two plexes. You guys want Easy Button boolsh!te (like notifications and such) to make your work easier, people like me will INTENTIONALLY do what we can just to spite you. While I don't farm, your whining to CCP for Easy Button crap just makes me want to scream the opposite. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:15:00 -
[148] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:No it wouldn't, most people would just turn the notifications off to prevent the constant annoyance. FYI people don't give a **** about sov unless they live there. A notification system will not change that. Cearain wrote: Notifications would make pvpers about 3-5xs as efficient as they are now. Combined with the added inefficncy carebears would get from a timer rollback and we would have what we need. Namely fw sov would be more efficiently done if you can stay and fight for your plex instead of constantly running and hiding.
About 10 pvpers could prevent rabbits from flipping systems in the entire caldari gallente front, if they had notifications and a timer rollback mechanic. They could spread out and would generally be only 3 jumps from any system. Hence they could effectively shut down any rabbits that are not willing to stay and fight.
I don't think Cearain quite gets the fact that those notifications will, indeed, just be shut off (just llike that Safety nonsense). More efficient? Not in the slightest. There are some who INTENTIONALLY light up every plex in surrounding systems before they start plexing, just to keep the hunters, FW or not, busy for a while. Find enough empty plexes and they either just move on or break out the probes (in which case they can be seen). Light 'em all up, and you NEED a crap-ton of people in systems with more than two plexes. You guys want Easy Button boolsh!te (like notifications and such) to make your work easier, people like me will INTENTIONALLY do what we can just to spite you. While I don't farm, your whining to CCP for Easy Button crap just makes me want to scream the opposite.
You misunderstand how notifications would work. They would work to tell you where timers are running not just where plexes are open.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1199
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:22:00 -
[149] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Again the reason people don't care about winning sov in fw is because it's broken. If it were fun and a good game people would try to win it. Chasing rabbits is not fun. So, how do any of your proposals make chasing rabbits fun? |
Princess Nexxala
quantum cats syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
338
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:23:00 -
[150] - Quote
Best Pvp from farmers? How so?
There would be no pvp, just noobs chasing farmers out of plexes. That "fixes" nothing. I could see systems nobody cares about not flipping every week, but how is that even a problem? Not to mention it's entirely dependent on some dense idiot willing to spend hours chasing farmers around.
Cearain wrote:Again the reason people don't care about winning sov in fw is because it's broken. If it were fun and a good game people would try to win it. Even if most people turned the notifications off that wouldn't matter. We don't need 10 thousand people. As long as about 10 people on each side kept them on and spread out in an organized way the rabbit plexing would end. If you could filter the notifications to give you notices of say 3-5 jumps then there would likely be many times that number keeping them on. They would be the ones getting the most frequent and best pvp. You could continue to camp gates in sensor boosted thrashers, or whatever, so there is no need to be so negative.
You seem awfully concerned (and woefully incorrect) about how I pvp . You should really focus on getting more experience yourself. I think if you whined less and pvp'd more you wouldn't be constantly trying to ruin what is a fairly good system with mechanics that just take more and more out of the player's hand. Just because you have no ability to adapt, doesn't mean the rest of us are that dense as well does it?
derp? |
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:42:00 -
[151] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Best Pvp from farmers? How so?
There would be no pvp, just noobs chasing farmers out of plexes. That "fixes" nothing. I could see systems nobody cares about not flipping every week, but how is that even a problem? Not to mention it's entirely dependent on some dense idiot willing to spend hours chasing farmers around.
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: Again the reason people don't care about winning sov in fw is because it's broken. If it were fun and a good game people would try to win it. Chasing rabbits is not fun. So, how do any of your proposals make chasing rabbits fun?
No more chasing. Just fighting in plexes a jump or 2 away. Given the increase in efficiency pvpers would have the farming would end. Why don't you both read what I wrote about why it would end farming and respond to that, instead of back tracking points that were already addressed?
I actually gave an analysis of why it would end farming and you guys keep ignoring it.
Let people know where they need to go to contest the capture of a plex through pvp, and there will be more people contesting the capture of plexes through pvp.
I feel like the guy in Idiocracy telling people to put water on their plants instead of gatorade in order to get a higher yield. You guys just ignore what I write and keep claiming it won't work.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1235
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:50:00 -
[152] - Quote
Cearain wrote:You misunderstand how notifications would work. They would work to tell you where timers are running not just where plexes are open.
Thanks for confirming your desire for more Easy Button mechanics.
Work--- like math--- is hard. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 15:56:00 -
[153] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Cearain wrote:You misunderstand how notifications would work. They would work to tell you where timers are running not just where plexes are open. Thanks for confirming your desire for more Easy Button mechanics. Work--- like math--- is hard.
Because I want people to fight for plexes instead of just orbitting buttons with no resistance, I am labeled as the one wanting an easy button?
Winning sov through pvp is a much harder task than winning by rabbit plexxing. Its also more fun and rewarding.
BTW: I love the way people shift from saying this change will not change anything. To this change will make it too easy to find pvp. Both positions can't be true. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Princess Nexxala
quantum cats syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
338
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 16:03:00 -
[154] - Quote
But it has electrolytes man!
Cearain wrote:
I feel like the guy in Idiocracy telling people to put water on their plants instead of gatorade in order to get a higher yield. You guys just ignore what I write and keep claiming it won't work.
Personally I have not ignored anything you have wrote, I just disagree with it and find no logic in what you assume (and they are some pretty big assumptions). I can only go on my experience which is fairly extensive.
derp? |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1235
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 16:04:00 -
[155] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Cearain wrote:You misunderstand how notifications would work. They would work to tell you where timers are running not just where plexes are open. Thanks for confirming your desire for more Easy Button mechanics. Work--- like math--- is hard. Because I want people to fight for plexes instead of just orbitting buttons with no resistance, I am labeled as the one wanting an easy button? Winning sov through pvp is a much harder task than winning by rabbit plexxing. Its also more fun and rewarding.
So... why exactly are you involved in FW and it's fake "sov" race with all its bad things and horrible mechanics, when you could be safely hidden away in null, fighting the good fight for REAL sov, with all the awesome 'leet battles and rewards?!?!? FW "sov" clearly isn't about just popping ships, but you want the failed null mechanics foisted on FW, too?
And why exactly do you insist on people playing YOUR game, instead of theirs? You clearly still don't get it, do you, Cearain: the game you want exists in null. Quit trying to impose your idea of nullspace on FW space. If you want null sov mechanics, go to null. Quit trying to screw up the game for the rest of us, m'kay? "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 16:05:00 -
[156] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:But it has electrolytes man! Cearain wrote:
I feel like the guy in Idiocracy telling people to put water on their plants instead of gatorade in order to get a higher yield. You guys just ignore what I write and keep claiming it won't work.
Personally I have not ignored anything you have wrote, I just disagree with it and find no logic in what you assume (and they are some pretty big assumptions). I can only go on my experience which is fairly extensive.
Its what they crave!
What assumptions are you challenging? That on average 1/3 to 1/5 of systems will have no one running a plex? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Princess Nexxala
quantum cats syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
338
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 16:15:00 -
[157] - Quote
That farmers control sov, they have a marginal effect at best because the systems they plex typically do not matter. Also that you will get fights using this notification system, if someone wants a fight, they go to a system that matters and they run a plex. No one who wants pvp is going to run a plex in an empty system. If someone shows up, they will run as per usual.
Cearain wrote:
Its what they crave!
What assumptions are you challenging? That on average 1/3 to 1/5 of systems will have no one running a plex?
I guess the disconnect is, I already think mechanics exist to control the farming hoard, you do not. derp? |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
240
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 16:40:00 -
[158] - Quote
Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote:*poasting in amarrtard weeping thread*
Didn't see you complaining about farming when amarrs held most of metro and the whole auga/dal constellation due to the farmarr alt horde.
Maybe your shoes have strategically placed spikes so they make you weep piteously only when you put them on the other foot or something.
Hypocrite.
this is very hard for someone of your limited cognitive abilties to understand, but daddy will try to explain it for you. now sit down be quiet and listen:
this thread is about a change for fw, not about amarr whining. you see, a change to plexing for instance, is a change for both sides. sort of like when mommy buys gerber formula for you and your brother. both of you have to drink gerber formula.
daddy would draw a pretty picture for you if i could. instead do you want a binky to make it all better?
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1199
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 17:17:00 -
[159] - Quote
Cearain wrote:No more chasing. Just fighting in plexes a jump or 2 away. How are you going to fight them if they run?
|
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
240
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 17:50:00 -
[160] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:That farmers control sov, they have a marginal effect at best because the systems they plex typically do not matter. Also that you will get fights using this notification system, if someone wants a fight, they go to a system that matters and they run a plex. No one who wants pvp is going to run a plex in an empty system. If someone shows up, they will run as per usual. Cearain wrote:
Its what they crave!
What assumptions are you challenging? That on average 1/3 to 1/5 of systems will have no one running a plex?
I guess the disconnect is, I already think mechanics exist to control the farming hoard, you do not.
it's funny you say that. would you say the farming hoard is currently ouut of control, as many people believe?
as it was before.
and when amarr were briefly in the lead.
how many times does it get like it currently is, before you at least start to think that maybe the controls you feel are there, aren't very good? |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:49:00 -
[161] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:That farmers control sov, they have a marginal effect at best because the systems they plex typically do not matter. .
Why do you say they do not matter?
And any way its not technically farmers that are the problem its more accurately rabbits. The defensive plexing rabbits might not make isk but they still help win the sov war by running and hiding from any pvp.
Princess Nexxala wrote: Also that you will get fights using this notification system, if someone wants a fight, they go to a system that matters and they run a plex. No one who wants pvp is going to run a plex in an empty system. If someone shows up, they will run as per usual.
If you go to the 3-6 systems "that matter" then you will likely get blobbed. Like I said fw used to have allot of pilots that appreciated the fact that the sov war would not just be decided by whoever has the biggest blob. After the no docking rule it seems the type of player it attracts has changed.
Cearain wrote:
Its what they crave!
What assumptions are you challenging? That on average 1/3 to 1/5 of systems will have no one running a plex?
I guess the disconnect is, I already think mechanics exist to control the farming hoard, you do not.[/quote]
Well if you are going to decide that only 10% of the systems "matter" then ok. I think that is where the disconnect is. You seem fine that 90% of systems are determined by rabbits and the other 10% is determined by who can outblob the other. I think this can be much better.
I messed my quote above up. I should have said 1/3 to 1/5 of systems have someone running a plex.
Do you agree? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:52:00 -
[162] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:No more chasing. Just fighting in plexes a jump or 2 away. How are you going to fight them if they run?
I won't I will let someone else fight them and keep fighting people within 1 - 3 jumps of me. The rabbits will be run off the map and the only people left doing plexes will be pvpers. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Princess Nexxala
quantum cats syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
338
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:52:00 -
[163] - Quote
Na, farmers gonna farm. If anything it's just another aspect of this game that provides content. When the caldari had all the farmers on their side we murdered them in droves and our home system was never threatened. There is absolutely no reason they can't do the same when the tide turns and they switch back to our side. It's a cycle. Can the system be improved? Probably. Is it fine the way it is? Probably. Has anyone suggested a better way? No, at least IMO.
Primarily I am against anything that makes this game easier for people who are lazy, unmotivated, and expect to have their PvP delivered to them. In spite of what most of my victims think, I work very hard to get my pew. It's what makes it rewarding and satisfying.
Too many people lately rely on others to get their PvP fix, and if that fails they blame mechanics...bah
2manno Asp wrote: it's funny you say that. would you say the farming hoard is currently ouut of control, as many people believe?
as it was before.
and when amarr were briefly in the lead.
how many times does it get like it currently is, before you at least start to think that maybe the controls you feel are there, aren't very good?
derp? |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 19:05:00 -
[164] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Na, farmers gonna farm.
Let me guess, they crave the electrolytes.
Princess Nexxala wrote: If anything it's just another aspect of this game that provides content. When the caldari had all the farmers on their side we murdered them in droves and our home system was never threatened. There is absolutely no reason they can't do the same when the tide turns and they switch back to our side. It's a cycle. Can the system be improved? Probably. Is it fine the way it is? Probably. Has anyone suggested a better way? No, at least IMO.
Primarily I am against anything that makes this game easier for people who are lazy, unmotivated, and expect to have their PvP delivered to them. In spite of what most of my victims think, I work very hard to get my pew. It's what makes it rewarding and satisfying. Too many people lately rely on others to get their PvP fix, and if that fails they blame mechanics...bah
Here it is! Now we are getting at how we think different.
1) You do not want sov control to be easier for the pvpers than the rabbits. I want fw sov to be geared more for the pvpers than the rabbits.
2) You are happy for the content the rabbits provide in fw, I am not.
3) You say I am lazy and unmotivated because I do not spend more time playing a computer game. I think spending more time at a computer game would be lazy and show lack of motivation.
Yes then it makes sense for you to be against notifications. Because notifications would mean that pvpers become more efficient at sov warfare than the rabbits.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Dan Carter Murray
398
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 19:09:00 -
[165] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Na, farmers gonna farm. Let me guess, they crave the electrolytes. Princess Nexxala wrote: If anything it's just another aspect of this game that provides content. When the caldari had all the farmers on their side we murdered them in droves and our home system was never threatened. There is absolutely no reason they can't do the same when the tide turns and they switch back to our side. It's a cycle. Can the system be improved? Probably. Is it fine the way it is? Probably. Has anyone suggested a better way? No, at least IMO.
Primarily I am against anything that makes this game easier for people who are lazy, unmotivated, and expect to have their PvP delivered to them. In spite of what most of my victims think, I work very hard to get my pew. It's what makes it rewarding and satisfying. Too many people lately rely on others to get their PvP fix, and if that fails they blame mechanics...bah
Here it is! Now we are getting at how we think different. 1) You do not want sov control to be easier for the pvpers than the rabbits. I want fw sov to be geared more for the pvpers than the rabbits. 2) You are happy for the content the rabbits provide in fw, I am not. 3) You say I am lazy and unmotivated because I do not spend more time playing a computer game. I think spending more time at a computer game would be lazy and show lack of motivation. Yes then it makes sense for you to be against notifications. Because notifications would mean that pvpers become more efficient at sov warfare than the rabbits.
4) your time spent on forums is probably double what most people spend playing a computer game. we're both lazy. you're just lazier.
IF YOU DON'T FLY AMARR THEN YOU DON'T LIKE A CHALLENGE SO GET ******
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 19:14:00 -
[166] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:Cearain wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Na, farmers gonna farm. Let me guess, they crave the electrolytes. Princess Nexxala wrote: If anything it's just another aspect of this game that provides content. When the caldari had all the farmers on their side we murdered them in droves and our home system was never threatened. There is absolutely no reason they can't do the same when the tide turns and they switch back to our side. It's a cycle. Can the system be improved? Probably. Is it fine the way it is? Probably. Has anyone suggested a better way? No, at least IMO.
Primarily I am against anything that makes this game easier for people who are lazy, unmotivated, and expect to have their PvP delivered to them. In spite of what most of my victims think, I work very hard to get my pew. It's what makes it rewarding and satisfying. Too many people lately rely on others to get their PvP fix, and if that fails they blame mechanics...bah
Here it is! Now we are getting at how we think different. 1) You do not want sov control to be easier for the pvpers than the rabbits. I want fw sov to be geared more for the pvpers than the rabbits. 2) You are happy for the content the rabbits provide in fw, I am not. 3) You say I am lazy and unmotivated because I do not spend more time playing a computer game. I think spending more time at a computer game would be lazy and show lack of motivation. Yes then it makes sense for you to be against notifications. Because notifications would mean that pvpers become more efficient at sov warfare than the rabbits. 4) your time spent on forums is probably double what most people spend playing a computer game. we're both lazy. you're just lazier.
Playing more of a broken computer game will not demonstrate I am less lazy or better motivated. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
159
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 19:42:00 -
[167] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
4) your time spent on forums is probably double what most people spend playing a computer game. we're both lazy. you're just lazier.
+ 1 .......wow im actually agreeing with a DCM post...... Sometimes i really do wonder if cearains playing the same game as us GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
547
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 20:01:00 -
[168] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Na, farmers gonna farm. Let me guess, they crave the electrolytes. Princess Nexxala wrote: If anything it's just another aspect of this game that provides content. When the caldari had all the farmers on their side we murdered them in droves and our home system was never threatened. There is absolutely no reason they can't do the same when the tide turns and they switch back to our side. It's a cycle. Can the system be improved? Probably. Is it fine the way it is? Probably. Has anyone suggested a better way? No, at least IMO.
Primarily I am against anything that makes this game easier for people who are lazy, unmotivated, and expect to have their PvP delivered to them. In spite of what most of my victims think, I work very hard to get my pew. It's what makes it rewarding and satisfying. Too many people lately rely on others to get their PvP fix, and if that fails they blame mechanics...bah
Here it is! Now we are getting at how we think different. 1) You do not want sov control to be easier for the pvpers than the rabbits. I want fw sov to be geared more for the pvpers than the rabbits. 2) You are happy for the content the rabbits provide in fw, I am not. 3) You say I am lazy and unmotivated because I do not spend more time playing a computer game. I think spending more time at a computer game would be lazy and show lack of motivation. Yes then it makes sense for you to be against notifications. Because notifications would mean that pvpers become more efficient at sov warfare than the rabbits.
I want world peace, But i would sound like a ****** if i just kept saying it over and over again on political forums offering no practical solution to what is likely an impossibility. Get over yourself, a pure pvp mechanic to control sov is not possible because you cannot make people fight. There is no other level to explore here, that is the be all and end all. Sorry, your ideology is based on a faulty presumption of possibility. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
858
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 20:30:00 -
[169] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:Na, farmers gonna farm. Let me guess, they crave the electrolytes. Princess Nexxala wrote: If anything it's just another aspect of this game that provides content. When the caldari had all the farmers on their side we murdered them in droves and our home system was never threatened. There is absolutely no reason they can't do the same when the tide turns and they switch back to our side. It's a cycle. Can the system be improved? Probably. Is it fine the way it is? Probably. Has anyone suggested a better way? No, at least IMO.
Primarily I am against anything that makes this game easier for people who are lazy, unmotivated, and expect to have their PvP delivered to them. In spite of what most of my victims think, I work very hard to get my pew. It's what makes it rewarding and satisfying. Too many people lately rely on others to get their PvP fix, and if that fails they blame mechanics...bah
Here it is! Now we are getting at how we think different. 1) You do not want sov control to be easier for the pvpers than the rabbits. I want fw sov to be geared more for the pvpers than the rabbits. 2) You are happy for the content the rabbits provide in fw, I am not. 3) You say I am lazy and unmotivated because I do not spend more time playing a computer game. I think spending more time at a computer game would be lazy and show lack of motivation. Yes then it makes sense for you to be against notifications. Because notifications would mean that pvpers become more efficient at sov warfare than the rabbits. I want world peace, But i would sound like a ****** if i just kept saying it over and over again on political forums offering no practical solution to what is likely an impossibility. Get over yourself, a pure pvp mechanic to control sov is not possible because you cannot make people fight. There is no other level to explore here, that is the be all and end all. Sorry, your ideology is based on a faulty presumption of possibility.
The solution has been clear for years. CCP just needs to implement it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
341
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 20:43:00 -
[170] - Quote
FW SOv is a PVE mechanic.
The playerbase CANNOT support a pure pvp mechanic at all. Sov needs to be PVE based. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
547
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 20:44:00 -
[171] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
The solution has been clear for years. CCP just needs to implement it.
There hasnt even been LP for plexing in FW for years. As well all know, the solution to remove farming is removal of LP for plexing...
I have a feeling that you are going to tout a much derided notification system at this point. A system that will be ignored since it no one has a single iota of difficulty finding evasion farmers, They just dont stick round to counter them beyond home systems because that is a boring activity. Notifications do nothing to change that. I know you have some sort of condition that makes retention of simple facts and ideas a problem, but perhaps repeating the same bad idea over and over again isnt the best course of action from a therapeutic point of view. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1200
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 20:46:00 -
[172] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:No more chasing. Just fighting in plexes a jump or 2 away. How are you going to fight them if they run? I won't I will let someone else fight them and keep fighting people within 1 - 3 jumps of me. The rabbits will be run off the map and the only people left doing plexes will be pvpers. Until you leave. Then they will be back. Just like now. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
859
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 21:29:00 -
[173] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:No more chasing. Just fighting in plexes a jump or 2 away. How are you going to fight them if they run? I won't I will let someone else fight them and keep fighting people within 1 - 3 jumps of me. The rabbits will be run off the map and the only people left doing plexes will be pvpers. Until you leave. Then they will be back. Just like now.
I anticipate there will be at least 10 people in each militia that like pvp and therefore will continue to fight for plexes when I am not online.
Again you seem to think no one in eve actually likes pvp and therefore no one will come to fight for the plexes. I think you are wrong. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
859
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 21:37:00 -
[174] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:
The solution has been clear for years. CCP just needs to implement it.
There hasnt even been LP for plexing in FW for years. As we all know, the solution to remove farming is removal of LP for plexing... ...
That is why I say its somewhat inaccurate to say the problem is farming. The problem is really rabbits people who run and hide in a different system when pvpers come to fight for the plex. That fw sov is a carebear race has been the problem since it first came out.
Here is an example of it:
"It took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), GǪ.111 faction warfare complexes were captured GǪ I did not kill anyone in the process..Gǥ Ankhesentapemkah Posted - 2008.06.18 02:29:00
If you track down that thread I believe you will find people suggesting that this sort of hide and seek plexing should be addressed, by a notification system. It won't be me because I didn't even start playing at that time.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
859
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 21:40:00 -
[175] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:FW SOv is a PVE mechanic.
The playerbase CANNOT support a pure pvp mechanic at all. Sov needs to be PVE based.
No one is looking for purity.
But having rabbits decide sov in 90% of the warzone is broken. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1201
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 23:46:00 -
[176] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I anticipate there will be at least 10 people in each militia that like pvp and therefore will continue to fight for plexes when I am not online. If these fictional people actually existed, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
If they do exist, then I suggest you join FW, form a corporation with these people, and then go out and dominate FW. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
550
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 08:44:00 -
[177] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:FW SOv is a PVE mechanic.
The playerbase CANNOT support a pure pvp mechanic at all. Sov needs to be PVE based. No one is looking for purity. But having rabbits decide sov in 90% of the warzone is broken.
TBH i like the cyclical nature of the current mechanics. It means that the militia with simply the most no life multiboxing rp plexers doesnt stay on top forever. Admittedly, this is in my best interests because we all know which militia has most of those lol.
Though the cycle is stalled at the moment because of gallentes reluctance to bash bunkers and/or amarrs failure to recruit another large null sec entitiy. Though its stalled in the gal/cal warzone in a fairly even state, caldari could easily push for tier 2 and make isk while they plex and pew. Though i suspect they are going the smarter route of letting the lp they have already accrued rise in value before offloading it.
Would be nice if amarr could inherit a portion of the farming horde to get the cycle started again.
Sure, now you whine about 'meaningful sov war', which is a joke. CCP already provides a meaningful sov war with permanent consequences. Its called dull sec. Your postings would find a happy home in COAD, so long. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
558
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 09:25:00 -
[178] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:TBH i like the cyclical nature of the current mechanics. It means that the militia with simply the most no life multiboxing rp plexers doesnt stay on top forever... That particular issue was fixed long ago, when plexes were made to spawn perpetually throughout the day thus axing the post-DT plexing bonanza .. FW was actually in a good place, occupancy wise, after that change as PvP suddenly had a much larger say in the state of thing and we saw Gallente being able to push back which in turn fostered more Caldari fighters to emerge. Similar happened on Amarr/Shakorite front albeit on a smaller scale as both sides had post-DT (thus being equally hit) presence with Amarr having slightly more .. Siseide/Lantorn .. nothing more needs to be said
And all that without any incentives.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Though the cycle is stalled at the moment because of gallentes reluctance to bash bunkers and/or amarrs failure to recruit another large null sec entitiy.... And that is the glaring flaw with the current system. Why should a militia have to bring in ringers to make any sort of headway, the whole idea that 'numbers trump all' makes for tedious and laggy time-dilated gameplay and is one of the major contributors to the moronic TZ condensing that has occurred, made "sense" in null due to reinforcement timers .. but in FW?
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Would be nice if amarr could inherit a portion of the farming horde to get the cycle started again. They will. They are on the/a clock and I suspect trying to balance their standings which is why they swap colours every two months or so .. but waging a proxy war through alts is kind of a big deflater and they can't be eradicated fast enough. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
550
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 09:29:00 -
[179] - Quote
Cant argue with numbers. There is no sensible mechanic to equalise the smaller force. You work with what you have.
Also, even at tier 1 caldari are scoring significantly more VP than gallente. Only the glorious minmatar, after crushing their once strong masters, save the gallente from very low occupancy with diagonal plexing. I was not referring to the DT advantage, just the fact that caldari have more bodies on buttons at most times of day. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
558
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 09:47:00 -
[180] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cant argue with numbers. There is no sensible mechanic to equalise the smaller force. You work with what you have. Sure there is, make the small guys time more valuable than the fat guys.
Suggested elsewhere/earlier that a reverse tier modifier be applied to VP as part of the diminishing return downside of steamrolling .. if one side is raking in +150-225% LP then they have to contend with enemy getting same bonus to VP making systems fall rather quickly unless guarded. You'd still see fluctuations in the zones, but they wouldn't be nearly as erratic or severe .. dropping from tier 4-5 to 1 in a few weeks would not be possible unless everyone went on vacation for instance. There was a week or two not long ago where both Amarr and Shakorites had tier3 and combat was rampant as plexing crews needed protection just to maintain the tier .. but then farmers got settled in (was while they were changing sides I suspect) and it got skewed again ... that is what is needed for constant bloodshed, an equilibrium with fluctuations never being so great that one side stays in port while waiting for the winds to change.
Sheer numbers would obviously still matter, but you'd need a lot to do what is done on a whim now (ie. flip entire warzone in a fortnight).
In short: I am Danish. I can argue with anything dammit, even numbers! |
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
860
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 16:44:00 -
[181] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:I anticipate there will be at least 10 people in each militia that like pvp and therefore will continue to fight for plexes when I am not online. If these fictional people actually existed, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. If they do exist, then I suggest you join FW, form a corporation with these people, and then go out and dominate FW.
Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
421
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 16:54:00 -
[182] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.
They can, you just need more of them under the current system. An average of 2 pvp pilots per contested system should suffice.
In essence it requires a large number of warm bodies spread over a very large area. Instead of nullsec Sov, which requires a large number of warm bodies shoved into a very small area... |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1204
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 17:00:00 -
[183] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote: Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.
They can, you just need more of them under the current system. An average of 2 pvp pilots per contested system should suffice. In essence it requires a large number of warm bodies spread over a very large area. Instead of nullsec Sov, which requires a large number of warm bodies shoved into a very small area... Correction: Null Sec - Large number of cold bodies shoved into a very small area.
They only come out of their slumber when there is a capital fight to be had. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
860
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 17:54:00 -
[184] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote: Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.
They can, you just need more of them under the current system. An average of 2 pvp pilots per contested system should suffice. In essence it requires a large number of warm bodies spread over a very large area. Instead of nullsec Sov, which requires a large number of warm bodies shoved into a very small area...
Well you just increased the numbers needed to about 150 pvp pilots online and active at one time for each militia. There simply aren't that many pvp pilots attracted to the current fw sov mechanics.
I actually think we would see that many pilots in fw doing pvp in plexes - if they made it a good game that was pvp based. Like I said with notifications and a rollback system about 10 pilots could at least shut out the rabbits. Then as word spread how much pvp everyone could get in fw I think you would start to see those numbers growing to the point that almost every small gang pvp corp in eve wanted in. The lp we make from plexes could keep us in ships but with the numbers of ships exploding its not like you would be rolling in isk like the plexers are now.
But it just aint happening under the current mechanics.
I would love if there were at least 2 pvpers ready to fight for a plex in every system I entered. Others seem to be partial to this current hide and seek rabbit plexing system we have. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
551
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 18:29:00 -
[185] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Takseen wrote:Cearain wrote: Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.
They can, you just need more of them under the current system. An average of 2 pvp pilots per contested system should suffice. In essence it requires a large number of warm bodies spread over a very large area. Instead of nullsec Sov, which requires a large number of warm bodies shoved into a very small area... Well you just increased the numbers needed to about 150 pvp pilots online and active at one time for each militia. There simply aren't that many pvp pilots attracted to the current fw sov mechanics. I actually think we would see that many pilots in fw doing pvp in plexes - if they made it a good game that was pvp based. Like I said with notifications and a rollback system about 10 pilots could at least shut out the rabbits. Then as word spread how much pvp everyone could get in fw I think you would start to see those numbers growing to the point that almost every small gang pvp corp in eve wanted in. The lp we make from plexes could keep us in ships but with the numbers of ships exploding its not like you would be rolling in isk like the plexers are now. But it just aint happening under the current mechanics. I would love if there were at least 2 pvpers ready to fight for a plex in every system I entered. Others seem to be partial to this current hide and seek rabbit plexing system we have.
Your posts are the most broken part of FW.. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1624
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 20:07:00 -
[186] - Quote
just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.
thrasher cloaked. first firetail was stabbed second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)
i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently. a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Grayson Cole
R.A.V.E.N.
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 21:27:00 -
[187] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Under the current mechanics pvpers can't dominate fw.
Because most PvPers can't be bothered to plex down systems. They'd rather be blobbing.
There's a happy medium here somewhere. I think the LP offered for destroying WT's should be much higher. Bonuses should be given if you shoot down a WT in a system controlled by their faction. Rollback timers seem like a good thing. LP bonuses for systems with stations, and perhaps even bonuses depending on how long it takes to reach certain contested percentages.
As is, there's not much real strategy involved in controlling systems. It's mostly left up to whoever has the most farmers. Maybe the timers and LP payouts of plexes just need to be reduced so that PvPers don't feel like they're just circling buttons all the time to encourage the PvE aspect of FW. Caldari Militia Gÿ£G£½GÿP |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
554
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 21:28:00 -
[188] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.
thrasher cloaked. first firetail was stabbed second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)
i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently.
How did you find them in the first place with no notification system??????????????????? hax?
If there was a notification system, no doubt you would have stayed in the plex to finish it off?
/massive sarcasm.
1. no stabs inside plex 2. address evasion cloaking, while allowing strategic / deception cloaking (somehow) 3. timers roll back to zero 4. slightly adjust rat tank in small and med plexes (not sure i like having to use a particular class, though coupled with no stabs in plexes might work.) 5. ban Cearain from forum |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
160
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 22:58:00 -
[189] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote: 5. ban Cearain from forum
+ 1
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Pax Thar
Sovereign Front
57
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 23:06:00 -
[190] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bienator II wrote:just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.
thrasher cloaked. first firetail was stabbed second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)
i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently. How did you find them in the first place with no notification system??????????????????? hax? If there was a notification system, no doubt you would have stayed in the plex to finish it off? /massive sarcasm. 1. no stabs inside plex 2. address evasion cloaking, while allowing strategic / deception cloaking (somehow) 3. timers roll back to zero 4. slightly adjust rat tank in small and med plexes (not sure i like having to use a particular class, though coupled with no stabs in plexes might work.) 5. ban Cearain from forum
1. Stabs are in game for a reason, whether or not you like them. 2. Cloaking is also a mechanic, deal with it. Besides you can't stop evasive cloaking without removing cloaks. 3. This would allow those not willing to plex the ability to shut down plexing, and systems would never flip. 4. Why? People cried about rats before... they cry now. |
|
Lin Suizei
130
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 01:01:00 -
[191] - Quote
Pax Thar wrote:3. This would allow those not willing to plex the ability to shut down plexing, and systems would never flip.
It would only allow us to shut down plex farming by cloaky stabbed alts. Plexing with normal PvP ships is mostly unaffected by this change. Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 02:53:00 -
[192] - Quote
Pax Thar wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bienator II wrote:just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.
thrasher cloaked. first firetail was stabbed second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)
i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently. How did you find them in the first place with no notification system??????????????????? hax? If there was a notification system, no doubt you would have stayed in the plex to finish it off? /massive sarcasm. 1. no stabs inside plex 2. address evasion cloaking, while allowing strategic / deception cloaking (somehow) 3. timers roll back to zero 4. slightly adjust rat tank in small and med plexes (not sure i like having to use a particular class, though coupled with no stabs in plexes might work.) 5. ban Cearain from forum 1. Stabs are in game for a reason, whether or not you like them. 2. Cloaking is also a mechanic, deal with it. Besides you can't stop evasive cloaking without removing cloaks. 3. This would allow those not willing to plex the ability to shut down plexing, and systems would never flip. 4. Why? People cried about rats before... they cry now.
1. not a pvp reason. 2. theres lots of mechanics that dont work as intended and/or are abused to exploit levels to the detriment of the game. 3. spinning buttons is not the goal of FW. 4. income for low sp chars in fw is spiking out of all proportion to all other areas of eve at any time in the game. (outside scamming) |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1206
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 04:50:00 -
[193] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote: If there was a notification system, no doubt you would have stayed in the plex to finish it off?
When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP! |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
300
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 05:51:00 -
[194] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote: When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP!
I FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
300
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 06:17:00 -
[195] - Quote
Pax Thar wrote:
1. Stabs are in game for a reason, whether or not you like them. 2. Cloaking is also a mechanic, deal with it. Besides you can't stop evasive cloaking without removing cloaks. 3. This would allow those not willing to plex the ability to shut down plexing, and systems would never flip. 4. Why? People cried about rats before... they cry now.
1. So people can haul pvp ships to their homes. You think CCP said - 'Oh lets make a module for shlt players to farm LP risk free?' 2. Cloaking is ok by me. Not very tricky to decloak them. 3. If you don't shoot a wt to defend a plex - then it isn't your plex - is it? So it's none of your business if they run it or not, because you were unwilling to defend it. Sometimes you just have to admit defeat and let the enemy have a plex. Happens to us all. 4. No ones crying about rats. People just would like them to be a bit tougher. How is this a problem if you fit your ship properly?
The rest of us will still manage to kill the rats if buffed so if you won't be able to - then you are a faulty unit.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 12:06:00 -
[196] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.
thrasher cloaked. first firetail was stabbed second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)
i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently.
You should consider not to fly ships which are clearly OP if you want fights against farmers. Those guys are there to make ISK... so if they think they have no chance then they will run. Bring something which gives them at least the feeling of having a chance to survive. E.g. if they fly a Caracal and you come with a frigate then you have good chances they will engage you if they are not complete cowards. But Hookbill is currently the absolute king of the hill with regards to 1 vs. 1 frigate fights. |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
422
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 12:54:00 -
[197] - Quote
Meditril wrote:
You should consider not to fly ships which are clearly OP if you want fights against farmers. Those guys are there to make ISK... so if they think they have no chance then they will run. Bring something which gives them at least the feeling of having a chance to survive. E.g. if they fly a Caracal and you come with a frigate then you have good chances they will engage you if they are not complete cowards. But Hookbill is currently the absolute king of the hill with regards to 1 vs. 1 frigate fights.
Glad its not just me that thinks Hookbills are really really strong. Double webs and rockets are a tough combo. But any faction frigate is just a "run away" signal when I was still flying Rifters on my alt. Faction frig usually means expensive fit, pilot with good skills, and maybe an OGB for good measure. Typically I'd engage and die before knocking more than a pinch of shields off.
On the flip side, remember that just because there's 3 WTs in the system doesn't mean they're in any way affiliated. I've been stung before because I was sitting in a plex with a militia ally. A hostile enters and I engage and die while the other guy cloaks or runs.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1208
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:34:00 -
[198] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:X Gallentius wrote: When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP!
I FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. Don't feel bad. It took me 2 years to understand Cearain's genius. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
860
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:39:00 -
[199] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.
thrasher cloaked. first firetail was stabbed second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)
i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently.
This is refered to as "content" and we should be happy for it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
860
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:46:00 -
[200] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:X Gallentius wrote: When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP!
I FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. Don't feel bad. It took me 2 years to understand Cearain's genius.
XG I know you are very upset about the idea that players will actually know where their military complexes are being attacked so that they can defend them in an organized way.
But there really is no genius involved. If you want people to be able to defend plexes in pvp then letting them know where their military complexes are being attacked, is the first step.
Its not that the idea is so hard to grasp. Your failure to get it is more of a "you" problem.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
860
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:49:00 -
[201] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Bienator II wrote:just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.
thrasher cloaked. first firetail was stabbed second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)
i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently. You should consider not to fly ships which are clearly OP if you want fights against farmers. Those guys are there to make ISK... so if they think they have no chance then they will run. Bring something which gives them at least the feeling of having a chance to survive. E.g. if they fly a Caracal and you come with a frigate then you have good chances they will engage you if they are not complete cowards. But Hookbill is currently the absolute king of the hill with regards to 1 vs. 1 frigate fights.
He said they were all in the plex. If they were fit for pvp they should have somehow managed to be able to take down a lone hookbill.
The problem is that under these mechanics they will win more sov by doing what they did instead of fighting. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
860
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:55:00 -
[202] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:4. slightly adjust rat tank in small and med plexes (not sure i like having to use a particular class, though coupled with no stabs in plexes might work.) 5. ban Cearain from forum
4. Yes instead of letting players know where they need to go to defend plexes, in pvp, lets try to have the npcs cover that for us. Good idea.
But then again you are one of the gallente who likes the "content" rabbits bring so what else should I expect?
5. I'm glad the guy likes the "content" rabbit plexers bring, and wants to solve fw sov issues with npcs, wants me banned from the forums. It means I am at least clear that I want fw sov to be more of a pvp mechanic.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1625
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 14:42:00 -
[203] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Bienator II wrote:just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.
thrasher cloaked. first firetail was stabbed second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)
i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently. You should consider not to fly ships which are clearly OP if you want fights against farmers. Those guys are there to make ISK... so if they think they have no chance then they will run. Bring something which gives them at least the feeling of having a chance to survive. E.g. if they fly a Caracal and you come with a frigate then you have good chances they will engage you if they are not complete cowards. But Hookbill is currently the absolute king of the hill with regards to 1 vs. 1 frigate fights. it was 3 vs 1. One thrasher, two firetails, vs one brawling hookbill. This is already certain death for me if they would be all willing to fight. All what they would have needed to do is spawncamping, oh wait its called waprin camping in eve - its a new feature since the plex layout changes. a eve-style bounty system (done)-á dust boarding parties You fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 14:46:00 -
[204] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Meditril wrote:Bienator II wrote:just entered a small plex in lamaa with a brawling hookbill with 3 wts in it.
thrasher cloaked. first firetail was stabbed second firetail burned in one direction with 5.5km/s (was already 50k away as i entered)
i docked and logged out after updating market orders. It feels like wasted time recently. You should consider not to fly ships which are clearly OP if you want fights against farmers. Those guys are there to make ISK... so if they think they have no chance then they will run. Bring something which gives them at least the feeling of having a chance to survive. E.g. if they fly a Caracal and you come with a frigate then you have good chances they will engage you if they are not complete cowards. But Hookbill is currently the absolute king of the hill with regards to 1 vs. 1 frigate fights. He said they were all in the plex. If they were fit for pvp they should have somehow managed to be able to take down a lone hookbill. The problem is that under these mechanics they will win more sov by doing what they did instead of fighting.
Yes, but not all are that much of a coward and PVP averse. Some of the LP farmers engage if they see a chance to win. But once again, if I am flying defensively and I am in a Thresher I would also not engage a solo hookbill, because I would expect him to double tracking disrupt me and just kite me. In case of a Firetail you are also just dead if he is using double webs and kites you from 9km range with his missiles. This is the old story, people are flying ships which are completely over the top (in the past this was Dramiel, currently these are Daredevil and Hookbill) and are wondering why they do not get fights or why they are baited and blobbed. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1210
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 14:56:00 -
[205] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:X Gallentius wrote: When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP!
I FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. Don't feel bad. It took me 2 years to understand Cearain's genius. XG I know you are very upset about the idea that players will actually know where their military complexes are being attacked so that they can defend them in an organized way. But there really is no genius involved. If you want people to be able to defend plexes in pvp then letting them know where their military complexes are being attacked, is the first step. Its not that the idea is so hard to grasp. Your failure to get it is more of a "you" problem. You're right, there is no genius involved. Saying "No notification = PvE mechanic, Notification = PvP mechanic" requires no intelligence whatsoever. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
411
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 15:14:00 -
[206] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:X Gallentius wrote: When you find a rabbit on your own and chase off, then it's PvE. If you find him using a notification system, then it's PvP!
I FINALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. Don't feel bad. It took me 2 years to understand Cearain's genius. XG I know you are very upset about the idea that players will actually know where their military complexes are being attacked so that they can defend them in an organized way. But there really is no genius involved. If you want people to be able to defend plexes in pvp then letting them know where their military complexes are being attacked, is the first step. Its not that the idea is so hard to grasp. Your failure to get it is more of a "you" problem. You're right, there is no genius involved. Saying "No notification = PvE mechanic, Notification = PvP mechanic" requires no intelligence whatsoever.
i do not know how it is problem to find where plexes are attacked. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
160
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 15:19:00 -
[207] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote: i do not know how it is problem to find where plexes are attacked.
Noone else knows how its a problem either weve just put it down to cerain being lazy or ******** havnt decided yet
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 15:51:00 -
[208] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Bad Messenger wrote: i do not know how it is problem to find where plexes are attacked.
Noone else knows how its a problem either weve just put it down to cerain being lazy or ******** havnt decided yet
First, you don't speak for everyone. Lots of people understand this.
Its a matter of efficiency.
If pvper knows immediately which his military complexes within 3 jumps are under attack he can respond in time. If however he has to go randomly looking through 20 systems to see this he is wasting his time.
Roaming through systems last night I found about 1 in 5 systems had someone running a plex. Accordingly it would be at least 5xs more efficient for a pvp to fight for space if we had a notification system.
But the main thing is once you had a notification system (and rollbacks) militias would see that they have an effective tool to try to fight the farm hordes and they would be more organized in doing that. It wouldn't take one hundred pilots really just 10 or so from each milita.
Amarr already did this to a limitted extent. They generally would have 4-5 people a few jumps from siseide. The problem is that without the notifications they basically need someone in each and every system. If we had notifciations those 4-5 people could spread out and each cover a constellation.
Notifications basically = multiplying the effect each pvper can have on the warzone. Likewise cutting the effect of the rabbits by a fraction.
I know I have explained this to you before. But you and the other gallente seem impervious to reason. So I am sure you will just respond to this post with "farmers gonna farm" or some other brain dead mantra. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1210
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:13:00 -
[209] - Quote
Cearain wrote: But the main thing is once you had a notification system (and rollbacks) militias would see that they have an effective tool to try to fight the farm hordes and they would be more organized in doing that. It wouldn't take one hundred pilots really just 10 or so from each milita.
1. Rollbacks first. (Quit punishing a player for "winning" a plex fight, encourage others to stay and fight (yes, farmers will cloak up) 2. Then timer restrictions - only a T1/T2 cruiser can run a medium, for example. Bring the right ship for the plex you farmers! 3. Then go to notification. We're too lazy to do our job, but what the hell let's give those few guys who live to plex a better intel tool to work with.
Fair enough? |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 18:11:00 -
[210] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: But the main thing is once you had a notification system (and rollbacks) militias would see that they have an effective tool to try to fight the farm hordes and they would be more organized in doing that. It wouldn't take one hundred pilots really just 10 or so from each milita.
1. Rollbacks first. (Quit punishing a player for "winning" a plex fight, encourage others to stay and fight (yes, farmers will cloak up) 2. Then timer restrictions - only a T1/T2 cruiser can run a medium, for example. Bring the right ship for the plex you farmers! 3. Then go to notification. We're too lazy to do our job, but what the hell let's give those few guys who live to plex a better intel tool to work with. Fair enough?
I think the rollbacks and the notificatins should happen at the same time so they can be tweaked as a total package. Lots of problems is one fix causes some other thing to break. But what you suggest is not horrible.
If for whatever reason ccp could get the timer rollback out immediately, it definitely should not be delayed until they also figure out notifications. I also think the opposite is true. If they could get a form of notifications going now but the timer rollback was a technical headache they shouldn't delay the notifications either.
As far as your second request I think that is overall a bad change that will not hinder rabbits:
-Amarr always had to bring in large ships to do medium or major plexes and it was still more efficient to do that in pve ships.
-Its easier to fit stabs on a cruiser/bc/bs than it is on a frigate.
-Forcing larger ships tends to make people more risk adverse. I think the main reason people are flying smaller ships is that they are finding they can have just about as much fin flying 10-20 mill dessies and frigates as they have flying 50-200 mill cruisers and up. Plus the fact that people can bring in the newly buffed logistic ships and falcons tends to discourage the more casual players from messing with medium plexes. Finally there has been an increase in gate camps and cruisers cant even make it past the vanilla bc gate camps. If people are forced to fly cruisers they will have even more pressure to fit a few stabs and a cloak so they can do the mwd cloak trick past these gate camps.
-Plus I think fights where several smaller ships are fighting larger ships are fun.
But really I don't care very much about the second point. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
160
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 21:12:00 -
[211] - Quote
Cearain wrote:But you and the other gallente seem impervious to reason..
it isnt just gallente rubbishing this everyone is GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Mirana Niranne
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc. Monkeys with Guns.
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 22:03:00 -
[212] - Quote
Any activity in eve that has a lucrative way to make isk is going to attract farmers. In FW you really need a good solid way to pull in money while still engaging in activities in the warzone because you don't want people leaving fw to go make money just to lose it pew pewing in FW. So you have plexing.
You don't need a cloak OR a stab to farm effectively, you just need to be paying attention. I plex to PvP myself, but when something shows up on short I know I can't deal with, I align out. If it lands and is blinky, I'm in warp before he's even fully landed.... Except this one time when I was paying too much attention to eye bleach.
Something that may help a little bit though, is increasing the tank on the NPCs to something reasonable. A stabbed frig should in no way be able to break the tank on a medium... And probably not a small either. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 01:30:00 -
[213] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:But you and the other gallente seem impervious to reason.. it isnt just gallente rubbishing this everyone is
Sorry but the idea has been supported for years. Just because the latest batch of farmers to enter fw don't like it, doesn't mean its not supported. Hans actually had this idea in his platform when he ran for csm 8. You just display more ignorrnace when you suggest no one likes the idea.
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
what i dont understand why we should be given this information instead of finding out for ourselves it doesnt seem very sandboxy notifications telling you were people are......
Why shouldn't military complexes notify the rest of the militia when they are attacked. Can you think of a militiary complex anywhere in the world that would not notify its army if it was attacked by the enemy?
Plus from a gameplay perspective the fact is that if pvpers do not have this tool then 90% of the warzone will be determined by rabbits. You may like the "content" that delivers but you and your fellow gallente posters are pretty much allone on that.
ALUCARD 1208 wrote: or in the case of backwaters even care that their even there, just bcos i have something telling me were they are doesnt make me care any more than usual
First just to be clear - what you call backwater is 90% of the warzone.
Second most people don't care because the game play involved with doing something about what happens in sov under the current mechanics is ridiculously boring. But if the mechanics changed so that doing something about sov in the other 90% of systens involved lots of great pvp - they would start caring. They would care because the fw sov game would become a good game that is worth playing and caring about. Right now no one cares because the game is broken.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Juan Rayo
Justified Chaos
48
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 01:38:00 -
[214] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Right now no one cares because the game is broken.
First, you don't speak for everyone. Lots of people understand this.
Second, tons of people are actually IN faction warfare, fighting, having fun. You are not in FW and yet to keep on going and going and going with your ridiculous idea. Those people IN faction warfare keep telling you how wrong you are, but you, NOT being in fw, continue to think we are the ones impervious to reason.
One thing for you tho: you-¦ve manage to make both gallente AND caldari agree on one thing: making fun of your notification crap. That-¦s something I guess. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 04:16:00 -
[215] - Quote
Juan Rayo wrote:Cearain wrote: Right now no one cares because the game is broken. First, you don't speak for everyone. Lots of people understand this. Second, tons of people are actually IN faction warfare, fighting, having fun. You are not in FW and yet to keep on going and going and going with your ridiculous idea. Those people IN faction warfare keep telling you how wrong you are, but you, NOT being in fw, continue to think we are the ones impervious to reason. One thing for you tho: you-¦ve manage to make both gallente AND caldari agree on one thing: making fun of your notification crap. That-¦s something I guess.
Your right a few people do care about the other 90% of systems. But that number is dwindling as the reality of these mechanics sinks in.
Its not my idea to have the notifications. It was suggested years ago by someone who thought fw shoud be a pvp mechanic. Whether people in fw farmville today still think that way or not is none of my concern. Maybe they all like the content rabbits provide. You can join them. But there are plenty of people who think its broken. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
560
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 06:31:00 -
[216] - Quote
Mirana Niranne wrote:Any activity in eve that has a lucrative way to make isk is going to attract farmers. In FW you really need a good solid way to pull in money while still engaging in activities in the warzone because you don't want people leaving fw to go make money just to lose it pew pewing in FW. So you have plexing... We've had missions tailored (and exclusive) to FW from the beginning, getting ISK was never an issue. The problem in those days was that it is a bonafide PvE activity and as we all know that is beneath the leet population, never mind the fact that spending twice as long getting only half the LP (at tier3) orbiting a button is also really PvE.
Notifications if done 'wrong' will result in people begging CCP for a way to turn them off in settings, at which point you have effectively wasted what precious Dev time was allotted to include it, thankfully there are other ways to go about it.
What I want/desire/need/crave (in no particular order, numbers are to differentiate): 1. Plex NPC's getting their promised tweak. Too easily killed and the time one has to stop all future spawns is way too generous, one or the other has to change. Frig fights rarely exceed 20-30s, so use that for Novice's, Smalls can be double that (45-60s), Mediums double again (90-120s) and Large a flat five minutes. Forces the issue of appropriate ships without much further work needed in that area, might tweak the rat tanks to account for tiericide bump in dps but other than that .. Reason: Gunless frigs were bad enough, stabbed cloaking sometimes gunless (if main used to clear a system) is not better .. 'nuff said.
2a. Missions to be the primary source of LP once again or people given a choice of "LP or VP" after a few seconds of nothing happening on a button. 2b. Missions could (and always should!) have been part of the war were they only given a poison pill system, so I'd look into that as well .. increase rewards if need be (currently using generic calcs). Rebalance them to force the issue of reward appropriate ships (a bomber does not 'deserve' 30k LP for 2 mins work, especially when it is allowed to use non-militia alts as speed tanks). 2c. Either a new set of 'defence' missions be deployed or missions only spawn in hostile space .. makes no sense for a military to launch an attack into already occupied space .. repeatedly! Reason: Missions are more often than not overlooked, but they have been part of the equation (initial market depression came from missions) since day one and as such should be included.
3. Notifications through the Militia Interface. Either on a tab of its own, it was redesigned to allow for extensions to be added so do it goddamnit or as a flashing/marking of the systems on the systems list page to indicate how many plexes are currently being rotated (ie. in process of respawning). Any further info must come from trawling space (ie. scouting). Reason: With 70+ systems in play and the update of their contested status in militia interface being delayed it is nigh impossible to determine which, if any, is being targeted before a plexing crew has moved on.
4. Reduce offensive LP by 25-33% for every jump away from a friendly harbour, reduce defensive LP by 25-33% for every jump away from a hostile harbour. Severely watered down 'front line' system that I championed unsuccessfully 4 years ago, four jumps is on the Amarr/Shakorite front half the warzone so blobbing as feared by some will not happen. Reason: Way too much farming being done in remote, out of the way systems .. force the choice of an intact hull or a fatter wallet.
5. Unattended timers automatically count towards 'reset' after being tagged/contested through normal operations. Will never 'run on its own' but merely help with reducing the extra time added by an enemy, more fun chasing the random guy around than watch a countdown for the umpteenth time. Reason: The hunters time is as valuable as the preys, but by rotating plexing the prey can effectively make its worthless.
6. Provided the tier system stays in place, then an actual diminishing returns system needs to be put in, the LP tax has no impact whatsoever since LP is infinite. Increase the VP acquired by a factor equal to whatever LP gains the opposition has (reverse tier), increase VP needed appropriately (if both are at tier3 both would get +75% VP). Reason: The wounded/cornered animal fights harder and it will counteract the "flip and hold entire warzones for a month with minimal effort" that has been part of FW since FarmVilleGäó.
May be more, but still working on my first pot of coffee so brain not fully online yet .. but those should be the big'uns. |
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
102
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 07:29:00 -
[217] - Quote
Page 11 of this thread now. Seems that A LOT of people think the same and even present us fixes. Only one who doesn-¦t care a sh.... is..... Oh it is CCP! Oh wonder^^ |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
414
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 10:14:00 -
[218] - Quote
lets face the facts,
CCP do not want to get rid of farming hoards because those brings $ to CCP.
Notification system does not change the fact that farmer run anyway when you come to plex. And you can see farmers in almost every non vulnerable systems that is not on some main route people use.
Rollback timers do not prevent farming maybe delay it bit, but those do not make farmers pvp because farmer is not for pvp he is for farming isk.
SO no matter how you want to change plexing, things will be same again, you will get bored running after farmers who escape because CCP will not make system that prevents farming totally. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 13:33:00 -
[219] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:lets face the facts,
CCP do not want to get rid of farming hoards because those brings $ to CCP.
No sensible company is going to make a change that will cost them profits. And ccp would be no different. But fixing faction war sov will not cost them profits. Every pvper likely has at least 1 other account.
I would love to know how many characters enrolled in fw have another character on that account that has more skill points. I would predict that at least 6000 of the 19000 in fw are characters that have another character on that account that has more sp. In other words allot of the people in fw are not really the main character. It is just a place to dump a alt and make isk. If sov plexing were no longer to be the route to isk they would find another. FW missions are already likely more profitable even though it takes a bit more time to train for them.
There are numerous other pve activities in eve so dropping one will not kill as many accounts as fixing a very rare pvp mechanic will gain.
I wish they would understand this with respect to the booster alts.
Bad Messenger wrote: Notification system does not change the fact that farmer run anyway when you come to plex. And you can see farmers in almost every non vulnerable systems that is not on some main route people use..
I see someone doing a plex in 1 in every 5 ssytems.
Notifications will dramatically increase the efficiency of pvpers who want to participate in the sov game - and coorrespondingly decrease the efficiency of the rabbits. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 14:12:00 -
[220] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Mirana Niranne wrote:Any activity in eve that has a lucrative way to make isk is going to attract farmers. In FW you really need a good solid way to pull in money while still engaging in activities in the warzone because you don't want people leaving fw to go make money just to lose it pew pewing in FW. So you have plexing... We've had missions tailored (and exclusive) to FW from the beginning, getting ISK was never an issue. The problem in those days was that it is a bonafide PvE activity and as we all know that is beneath the leet population, never mind the fact that spending twice as long getting only half the LP (at tier3) orbiting a button is also really PvE. Notifications if done 'wrong' will result in people begging CCP for a way to turn them off in settings, at which point you have effectively wasted what precious Dev time was allotted to include it, thankfully there are other ways to go about it.
Why should they do it wrong? Sure if people's pvp consists of just camping a gate then they should be able to minimize the notification window or map or whatever they use. They should be able to keep doing their thing. But people who want to effecitively fight for sov should have a better option than stabs and cloaks.
Veshta Yoshida wrote: What I want/desire/need/crave (in no particular order, numbers are to differentiate): 1. Plex NPC's getting their promised tweak. Too easily killed and the time one has to stop all future spawns is way too generous, one or the other has to change..
CCP did already fix npcs. Continuing to tweak npcs will at best be a waste of time and at worse bring us back to the time when npcs actually discouraged people from pvping in plexes.
Bottom line give players tools to defend their own space don't keep trying to make it so the npcs do that job.
Veshta Yoshida wrote: 2a. Missions to be the primary source of LP once again or people given a choice of "LP or VP" after a few seconds of nothing happening on a button. 2b. Missions could (and always should!) have been part of the war were they only given a poison pill system, so I'd look into that as well .. increase rewards if need be (currently using generic calcs). Rebalance them to force the issue of reward appropriate ships (a bomber does not 'deserve' 30k LP for 2 mins work, especially when it is allowed to use non-militia alts as speed tanks). 2c. Either a new set of 'defence' missions be deployed or missions only spawn in hostile space .. makes no sense for a military to launch an attack into already occupied space .. repeatedly! Reason: Missions are more often than not overlooked, but they have been part of the equation (initial market depression came from missions) since day one and as such should be included..
Whoever runs more missions gains sov the fastest? Not really a fan. The current system is enough of a carebear race I don't think we need to sink deeper.
Veshta Yoshida wrote: 3. Notifications through the Militia Interface. Either on a tab of its own, it was redesigned to allow for extensions to be added so do it goddamnit or as a flashing/marking of the systems on the systems list page to indicate how many plexes are currently being rotated (ie. in process of respawning). Any further info must come from trawling space (ie. scouting). Reason: With 70+ systems in play and the update of their contested status in militia interface being delayed it is nigh impossible to determine which, if any, is being targeted before a plexing crew has moved on.
Very few care about 90% of the systems. Systems sit vulnerable for ages. A general indicator that says "yep korasen is still vulnerable" is not going to change much. It will still be the fwaction war wabbits that decide sov in 90% of systems.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
560
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 14:58:00 -
[221] - Quote
You need to read that which you reply, preferably before replying my dear
Cearain wrote:Why should they do it wrong?... Because it is CCP and they tend to use trial and error when it comes to anything remotely related to human behaviour modifications. That paragraph was the introduction to the rest by the way.
Cearain wrote:CCP did already fix npcs Yes I know, they went with my idea after all .. the plex specific sub set so that they could be changed at will as needs arose without breaking stuff all over the place. But they launched an infuriatingly watered down rat (singular!) which when killed within an eon prevents all subsequent spawns = stabbed/cloaked frigs/dessies with minimal dps able to do just about all plexes. Quite obviously not enough tank on the things or there is too much time .. as written in the text you replied to.
Cearain wrote:Whoever runs more missions gains sov the fastest? Not really a fan. The current system is enough of a carebear race I don't think we need to sink deeper. With missions only to hostile space, poison pills and size appropriate rats/objectives .. again, written in the text you replied to.
Cearain wrote:Very few care about 90% of the systems. Systems sit vulnerable for ages. A general indicator that says "yep korasen is still vulnerable" is not going to change much. It will still be the fwaction war wabbits that decide sov in 90% of systems. That is the way it is now, with interface telling you (with delay) what is contested and by how much. I propose adding data on how many plexes in a given system is in rotation/respawning, that is which systems are being actively plexed. No one I know would ever go for or indeed support free information about ships and numbers involved, and it is quite frankly not needed as long as people are urged to hunt off the beaten paths .. think of it as a slender plume of smoke rising from the forest, you know someone has a fire going but not much else without having a look see .. again, explained in the text you replied to.
I haven't given up on you Cearain, just trying to help you get you out of the groove you seem to be stuck in. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 16:16:00 -
[222] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:You need to read that which you reply, preferably before replying my dear Cearain wrote:Why should they do it wrong?... Because it is CCP and they tend to use trial and error when it comes to anything remotely related to human behaviour modifications. That paragraph was the introduction to the rest by the way. Cearain wrote:CCP did already fix npcs Yes I know, they went with my idea after all .. the plex specific sub set so that they could be changed at will as needs arose without breaking stuff all over the place. But they launched an infuriatingly watered down rat (singular!) which when killed within an eon prevents all subsequent spawns = stabbed/cloaked frigs/dessies with minimal dps able to do just about all plexes. Quite obviously not enough tank on the things or there is too much time .. as written in the text you replied to. Cearain wrote:Whoever runs more missions gains sov the fastest? Not really a fan. The current system is enough of a carebear race I don't think we need to sink deeper. With missions only to hostile space, poison pills and size appropriate rats/objectives .. again, written in the text you replied to. Cearain wrote:Very few care about 90% of the systems. Systems sit vulnerable for ages. A general indicator that says "yep korasen is still vulnerable" is not going to change much. It will still be the fwaction war wabbits that decide sov in 90% of systems. That is the way it is now, with interface telling you (with delay) what is contested and by how much. I propose adding data on how many plexes in a given system is in rotation/respawning, that is which systems are being actively plexed. No one I know would ever go for or indeed support free information about ships and numbers involved, and it is quite frankly not needed as long as people are urged to hunt off the beaten paths .. think of it as a slender plume of smoke rising from the forest, you know someone has a fire going but not much else without having a look see .. again, explained in the text you replied to. I haven't given up on you Cearain, just trying to help you get you out of the groove you seem to be stuck in.
Well veshta I think we just need to agree to disagree. You want lots of npc involvement in the sov war. You want them boosted and (poison pill or not) having mission rats bombard you while you try to pvp is just the same sort of bad idea ccp finally did away with. Changing the npcs is the best thing ccp ever did for fw sov. Its a way waste of time to mess with it further. Forcing bigger ships to fight npcs will not mean more pvp. It will just mean bigger pve ships running plexes. We know this from the past when the rats where stronger and spawned more often. Yet Ank captured over 111 plexes in under a week without a single pvp kill.
As was said earlier plexes are the new top belt. Thanks to the nerf of the rats plexes are now the best place to pvp in all of eve. Lets not undo that. And looking for solutions to farming in npcs is counterintuitive. Wormholes and incursions all have harder npcs but that is still farming. And the harder npcs just make it less likely that those players will be able to pvp.
As far as your complaint that the militia would give "free information" to others in the militia, that is a bit silly. But whatever, how about we pay 5 mill per month to our own militia so that they will tell us when we are being attacked? That way it won't be "free."
Lots of people supported the notification idea - considering it was a fw idea. Its notoriously hard to get support for specific fw proposals. In fact few other specific fw proposal that had as much support. We still see notification proposals popping up for example with respect to bunker busts.
As to what specific information is given that can be tweaked. We should at least know where our military complexes are currently being attacked. Beyond that: -size of the plex -Numbers in the plex -numbers from each militia or neutrals in plex -names of people in the plex -what ship class is in the plex - what ship type is in the plex -what militia is in the plex -how much time is left on the timer -how we find out whether from a map or by a seperate channel for that purpose whatever etc etc is all information that can be debated and tweaked. But just letting us know where our military complexes are under attack, so we can defend them in pvp, is an obvious first step.
My groove is the same groove I have been in for years. I want fw sov to be a pvp activity not a pve one. The way to do that hasn't changed. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1213
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:03:00 -
[223] - Quote
Cearain wrote:In fact few other specific fw proposal that had as much support. There has been universal support for timer rollbacks. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
160
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:23:00 -
[224] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
We still see notification proposals popping up for example with respect to bunker busts.
i only ever see them "Pop Up" in your posts
Cearain wrote: -Numbers in the plex -numbers from each militia or neutrals in plex -names of people in the plex -what ship class is in the plex - what ship type is in the plex -what militia is in the plex -how much time is left on the timer
You have got to be kidding me... I serously mean this cerain why dont u ask ccp to magically teleport you into an occupied plex in the perfect counter ship everytime you log in .......... You say your not lazy i beg to differ with that shi.... u posted right there GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 17:54:00 -
[225] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:
We still see notification proposals popping up for example with respect to bunker busts.
i only ever see them "Pop Up" in your posts Cearain wrote: -Numbers in the plex -numbers from each militia or neutrals in plex -names of people in the plex -what ship class is in the plex - what ship type is in the plex -what militia is in the plex -how much time is left on the timer
You have got to be kidding me... I serously mean this cerain why dont u ask ccp to magically teleport you into an occupied plex in the perfect counter ship everytime you log in .......... You say your not lazy i beg to differ with that shi.... u posted right there
If you openly attack a military complex do you not think that you will be reported??
What sort of bizarro world is it where you attack a military complex and no one from your own military tells anyone else?
I know you like to defend fwaction war wabbits for all the content they bring but this is going a bit far don't you think?
And again I love how some people on these forums are so out of touch with reality, that they say someone is lazy because they don't spend more time playing computer games. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
344
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:16:00 -
[226] - Quote
Seriously?
Cearain wrote: -names of people in the plex -what ship class is in the plex
Why not make it an instanced arena that you can use your summoning stone to magically teleport to? Then you really don't have to anything at all but log in and hit F1. derp? |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
160
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:18:00 -
[227] - Quote
Cearain wrote:=
If you openly attack a military complex do you not think that you will be reported??
What sort of bizarro world is it where you attack a military complex and no one from your own military tells anyone else?
It does get reported .... in our intel channels omfg we actually play the game for how its meant to be played... its a cat and mouse game not something that spoon feeds you kills....so yes lazy GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
160
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:20:00 -
[228] - Quote
Only way id ever see it not having some sort of pve element to the sov mechanic would be for onlining of sbus and tcus like null sec imo GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
415
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:47:00 -
[229] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Notifications will dramatically increase the efficiency of pvpers who want to participate in the sov game - and coorrespondingly decrease the efficiency of the rabbits.
my efficiency killing farmers is pretty good and i do not need any notification system for it, only thing is that there is no point to kill farmers or even to try to hold systems, so you do not see me hunting farmers.
Problems in FW mechanics are somewhere else and your ideas do not solve those. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
560
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:57:00 -
[230] - Quote
This is XG`s fault. Conceding the thin edge of the npc intel wedge set off a new terrifying wave of bad ideas.
The guy is terrible, i saw him presumably out looking for pvp. Plexes in the system all had single targets in them, I watched for where he wss gonna go play. 30 seconds after he arrived, he was gone again. Not eve enough time to dscan all the plexes. Dude couldnt find pvp in rvb.
Maybe he needs his own kiddy server with notifications and and an instant action button for the adhd, |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 23:08:00 -
[231] - Quote
Wow I suggest the wereabouts of fwaction war wabbits will be disclosed by the military complex they are capturing, and the gallente are very upset.
Lets summarize their concerns:
-Fear it will now be too easy to kill off the wabbits, - Fear that pvp will be too easy to find, -That I am bad at eve, based on observing me for 30 seconds warping out of a system. -and, of course, accusing me of being lazy because I don't spend more time playing a computer game.
Nice round of posts guys.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
161
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 23:26:00 -
[232] - Quote
Cearain wrote:capturing, and the gallente are very upset.
Lets summarize their concerns:
-Fear it will now be too easy to kill off the wabbits, - Fear that pvp will be too easy to find, -That I am bad at eve, based on observing me for 30 seconds warping out of a system. -and, of course, accusing me of being lazy because I don't spend more time playing a computer game.
-Fear it will now be too easy to kill off the wabbits, <---------- dont care about farmers there not worth time/ effort if people want pvp they know where to go
- Fear that pvp will be too easy to find,<---------- PVP is easy to find everyone else apart from you seems to find it
-That I am bad at eve, based on observing me for 30 seconds warping out of a system. <--------- cant comment on that
-and, of course, accusing me of being lazy because I don't spend more time playing a computer game. <---------- no ur not lazy cos u dont spend more time playing it, your lazy for how you want to play it having things gifted to you for no effort GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1215
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 23:40:00 -
[233] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:This is XG`s fault. I apologize. I sincerely apologize. I really, really apologize. I regret any comments that caused this problem. I am truly sorry.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
560
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 00:01:00 -
[234] - Quote
OK. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 00:04:00 -
[235] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:capturing, and the gallente are very upset.
Lets summarize their concerns:
-Fear it will now be too easy to kill off the wabbits, - Fear that pvp will be too easy to find, -That I am bad at eve, based on observing me for 30 seconds warping out of a system. -and, of course, accusing me of being lazy because I don't spend more time playing a computer game.
-Fear it will now be too easy to kill off the wabbits, <---------- dont care about farmers there not worth time/ effort if people want pvp they know where to go
You don't care about fw sov in 90% of systems then.
ALUCARD 1208 wrote: - Fear that pvp will be too easy to find,<---------- PVP is easy to find everyone else apart from you seems to find it
No I am not the only one. Plenty of people indicate that eve takes too long to find pvp action for the amount of time spent. Look in this thread and other current threads in this forum. Its currently better than it was before inferno but its not always so action packed, that it couldn't possibly improve.
ALUCARD 1208 wrote: -That I am bad at eve, based on observing me for 30 seconds warping out of a system. <--------- cant comment on that
-and, of course, accusing me of being lazy because I don't spend more time playing a computer game. <---------- no ur not lazy cos u dont spend more time playing it, your lazy for how you want to play it having things gifted to you for no effort
I want the game to be challenging not time consuming or tedious. Having sov determined by constant pvp is challenging. Having sov determined by alts orbiting buttons and running and hiding from pvp is just tedious and boring.
I also don't think rabbit plexing takes more "effort" than having to win plexes through pvp. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Phox Jorkarzul
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 00:23:00 -
[236] - Quote
I would like to keep this at the top, by stating that Crosi is right it is XG's fault Blasters for life
https://neverpheedthetroll.blogspot.com |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
560
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 00:35:00 -
[237] - Quote
I think were playing 2 different games. last time i played, i undocked, found a caldari gang of 7 talwars, an arbitrator and an atron in my home system. So i undocked a cane and baited them into a fight. I had 3 talwar an arbitrator and atron kills within 5 minutes of logging on. Bit later got into a BC small gang brawl with squids. Though i was logi and didnt ***** on many kills :(
Not played for a couple of days, but logged on today, squids in plexes in my home system, just leroyed a maulus into them. Coincidently, SPCA were leroying a couple dessies into them as well, so got on several kills within 5 minutes of logging on. Went 1 jump, found an enyo and hb, leroyed into them, hb bailed enyo died. 2 jumps later tacked a neutral moa in a medium. Was gonna take him by myself but some rainbow dash guys pissed on my parade, i tackled the rainbow noman with my maulus forcing them to bring in 8 other guys and logi to support him. My backup arrived but just as i was going back in for a point they bailed.
So in about 50 minutes i had been involved in 8 kills. This is pretty typical. If i dont go out scouting, nothing happens. If i do, pvp keeps happens very frequently.
If you want pvp without doing the groundwork, WoW ----> |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 01:43:00 -
[238] - Quote
We have now heard from Moe Larry Curly and Shemp.
But what is interesting is how the argument against revealing where the farmers are keeps shifting.
At first the gang of four has been arguing that notifications will effect nothing. It won't make sov war involve any more of a pvp mechanic than it is now.
But now the arguments are doing an about face. Curly now says it will make pvp too easy to find. Larry now say we already have so much pvp no one could possibly want more. Moe just apologizes. And Shemp admits he really doesn't mind that 90% of the warzone sov is determined by rabbits. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
560
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 02:19:00 -
[239] - Quote
Cearain wrote:We have now heard from Moe Larry Curly and Shemp.
But what is interesting is how the argument against revealing where the farmers are keeps shifting.
At first the gang of four has been arguing that notifications will effect nothing. It won't make sov war involve any more of a pvp mechanic than it is now.
But now the arguments are doing an about face. Curly now says it will make pvp too easy to find. Larry now says we already have so much pvp no one could possibly want more. Moe just apologizes. And Shemp admits he really doesn't mind that 90% of the warzone sov is determined by rabbits.
Ah, a post from the school of "i said it so its true".
Curly and larry are being misconstrued in your post, moe was joking and very few people really cares about the state of the greater warzone outside of strategic systems and accepts their swinging status as a practical way to enable all militias to exist and at some point, in the upswing, be profitable. More isk = more pvp.
Im mostly interest in which if the handful of events will start the pendulum swinging away from gallente in the gallente and caldari warzone. If this doesnt happen in the next 3-4 weeks, THEN i will accept something is broken, but using indicators that are exactly opposite to yours. As in, no gallente system is more than 60% contested, and their contested rates are falling. This indicates that caldari farmers are having little or no impact on the overall state of any system, even backwaters. Your wet dream.
This will lead to a stagnant warzone which is the antitheses of the sov-light principal of FW.
You want sov to be the pinnacle, its not, and no one outside some brain damaged roleplayers want it to be.
Nullsec = Sov > PvP FW = PvP > Sov |
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
46
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 07:08:00 -
[240] - Quote
Cearain wrote:We have now heard from Moe Larry Curly and Shemp.
But what is interesting is how the argument, against revealing where the farmers are, keeps shifting.
At first the gang of four has been arguing that notifications will effect nothing. It won't make sov war involve any more of a pvp mechanic than it is now.
But now the arguments are doing an about face. Curly now says it will make pvp too easy to find. Larry now says we already have so much pvp no one could possibly want more. Moe just apologizes. And Shemp admits he really doesn't mind that 90% of the warzone sov is determined by rabbits.
Aren't you no longer in FW? Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven. |
|
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
104
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:04:00 -
[241] - Quote
Wow. Twelve pages now. Seems there are many many many people unhappy. I bet no one in CCP has read this thread :P They probably run away actually when they only hear "fw".
Edit: Page 13 :D |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
197
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:07:00 -
[242] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Wow. Twelve pages now. Seems there are many many many people unhappy. I bet no one in CCP has read this thread :P They probably run away actually when they only hear "fw".
Edit: Page 13 :D
You must realize how lot of people are actually happy (including some of the greatest FW players (as in ForumWarrior). The unhappy 50-100 people (most of them never post) are 50-100 paying customers, who are negligible to the 1000-2000 paying customers with a noobsec main and a farmatar alt who are extremely happy. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 12:40:00 -
[243] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:Wow. Twelve pages now. Seems there are many many many people unhappy. I bet no one in CCP has read this thread :P They probably run away actually when they only hear "fw".
Edit: Page 13 :D You must realize how lot of people are actually happy (including some of the greatest FW players (as in ForumWarrior). The unhappy 50-100 people (most of them never post) are 50-100 paying customers, who are negligible to the 1000-2000 paying customers with a noobsec main and a farmatar alt who are extremely happy.
I think there is an important distinction between Faction war as a whole (and generally low sec pvp) and Faction war sov in particular.
Faction war as a whole and the pvp you can get in low sec I think people are generally are glad for great improvements ccp made. Myself included. The changes to the rats in plexes have made pvping in them better and the changes to gcc has greatly increased the targets.
But when it comes to fw sov there is a divide between a handfull of systems that are major bases for militias and the other 90% of systems. There has no doubt been large fights and much pvp in the handfull of base systems. But if you not interested in the larger fleet fights of those base systems and look to the other 90% well thats very disappointing.
Its the vast majority of people who have given up caring about sov in the other 90% of systems because the mechanics are horrible. They are horrible because the way to win involves horribly boring and tedious gameplay instead of challenging and exciting game play. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 12:57:00 -
[244] - Quote
Davion Falcon wrote:Cearain wrote:We have now heard from Moe Larry Curly and Shemp.
But what is interesting is how the argument, against revealing where the farmers are, keeps shifting.
At first the gang of four has been arguing that notifications will effect nothing. It won't make sov war involve any more of a pvp mechanic than it is now.
But now the arguments are doing an about face. Curly now says it will make pvp too easy to find. Larry now says we already have so much pvp no one could possibly want more. Moe just apologizes. And Shemp admits he really doesn't mind that 90% of the warzone sov is determined by rabbits. Aren't you no longer in FW?
I have alts in fw.
I just took my pvp characters out because I can get more pvp without being blue to 1/3 of the players in plexes. Plus I get more pvp because i can dock/reship where I want without being forced to spend eve time rabbit plexing. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
560
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:23:00 -
[245] - Quote
There is a pattern here. The sov rp'ers are all unhappy. All the pvp'ers i know consider this a growing golden age of pvp. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
562
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 14:37:00 -
[246] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:There is a pattern here. The sov rp'ers are all unhappy. All the pvp'ers i know consider this a growing golden age of pvp. Says more about the quality of modern day PvP'ers if hunting/euthanizing stab monkeys is what gets them off ..
Must be said that the unlimited ISK/LP in FW has brought a certain laissez-faire attitude to the table so people no longer grind their teeth and bash their heads against walls when faction goes pop .. perhaps that is why PvP'ers are having a good time, lots of high value mails with only minimal tantrums .. just an observation. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 17:52:00 -
[247] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:There is a pattern here. The sov rp'ers are all unhappy. All the pvp'ers i know consider this a growing golden age of pvp.
I don't really rp. I fight for the faction that I am in, and don't awox or spy, but thats about it. I never really could get into the whole race backstory. You and xg are much more rpers with your constant gallente are better than squids schtick. Most people on the minmatar amarr front strike me as a bit more mature/sane than that.
To be clear, I am not saying that rpers are insane, but you guys seem to go beyond that. You seem to take the rp into real life. I have seen innumerable non-rp fw threads degenerate into you guys insulting eachother. Its pretty crazy actually. The rpers at least seem to understand that they are playing a fictional role, and don't make the insults personal.
I just think fixing the 90% of sov that is broken would make the game allot more fun. It would add depth/context to the otherwise meaningless pvp. And yes it would increase the amount of pvp involved in the sov war. If you don't care abotu the other 90% of the systems, and supposedly don't support the farmers, then I don't see why you are so against proposals to make the other 90% of system's sov determined by pvp. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1217
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 18:29:00 -
[248] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Says more about the quality of modern day PvP'ers if hunting/euthanizing stab monkeys is what gets them off .. Point missed. The pvp'ers are making enough isk while fighting for plexes against real pvp'ers. Win/win for them.
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
562
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 19:28:00 -
[249] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:...Edit: And I think everybody cares that farmers are farming too much, but the first step is timer rollbacks - something that is universally accepted by everybody as a good idea that should be implemented. True, but as we are not even sure that CCP reads our goings on, making tons of demands/suggestions for changes is a way to position ourselves for when/if CCP notices .. at that point it becomes a negotiation and with CCP having the power of a god (being the developer), giving them a bunch of stuff to shake their head and scream NO! at allows them to feel like the mighty entity they are while still serving us something we want/need - a face-saving exercise basically. All we need do is make sure that the auto-run timer is placed front and center so that is the thing we end up getting.
Fake Edit: Oops, mightily dumb of me to spill the beans where the manipulation/negotiation target can read it! |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1217
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 22:42:00 -
[250] - Quote
Well if they aren't reading it and you are upset enough about it, then I guess you should run for CSM or quit FW. |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 14:06:00 -
[251] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Says more about the quality of modern day PvP'ers if hunting/euthanizing stab monkeys is what gets them off .. Point missed. The pvp'ers are making enough isk while fighting for plexes against real pvp'ers. Win/win for them. Edit: And I think everybody cares that farmers are farming too much, but the first step is timer rollbacks - something that is universally accepted by everybody as a good idea that should be implemented.
While I am in favor of timer rollbacks and agree that it seems to be the most popular proposal right now. It is inaccurate to say that it is universally accepted by everyone.
Several people are not in favor of this change based on the arguments that "farmers gonna farm", and "stop whining" and "it won't really change anything"
If the person suggesting it is in fw you will also see arguments like "If you don't like fw why don't you quit"
If the person posting is in fw you will see the argument "you aren't even in fw."
Bottom line is ccp has to make up their mind whether they want fw sov to coninue to be a carebear race. If they decide they want to change it to a pvp mechanic, then they need to look at the reasons people have for or against proposals. They need to cut through the stupid arguments and look at the posts that actually make sense to reasonable people.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1217
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 16:07:00 -
[252] - Quote
Cearain wrote: While I am in favor of timer rollbacks and agree that it seems to be the most popular proposal right now. It is inaccurate to say that it is universally accepted by everyone.
In statistics > 95% is considered "certain". Sorry for the misunderstanding. This is different from the numbers on "notification system" which is less than 10%.
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Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
421
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 17:55:00 -
[253] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:Wow. Twelve pages now. Seems there are many many many people unhappy. I bet no one in CCP has read this thread :P They probably run away actually when they only hear "fw".
Edit: Page 13 :D You must realize how lot of people are actually happy (including some of the greatest FW players (as in ForumWarrior). The unhappy 50-100 people (most of them never post) are 50-100 paying customers, who are negligible to the 1000-2000 paying customers with a noobsec main and a farmatar alt who are extremely happy.
weird thing is that those same people still whine after ccp made almost all changes they wanted. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 19:53:00 -
[254] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: While I am in favor of timer rollbacks and agree that it seems to be the most popular proposal right now. It is inaccurate to say that it is universally accepted by everyone.
In statistics > 95% is considered "certain". Sorry for the misunderstanding. This is different from the numbers on "notification system" which is less than 10%.
Why am I not surprised your math is terrible.
25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Basically looking back at the threads when this proposal was made it was mainly just you, bad messenger, super chair, and veshta against it. Same 4 guys always so vocal against giving pvpers the tools they need to fight for plexes.
Anyway keep making up numbers. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 20:03:00 -
[255] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:We have now heard from Moe Larry Curly and Shemp. But what is interesting is how the argument against revealing where the farmers are keeps shifting. At first the gang of four has been arguing that notifications will effect nothing. It won't make sov war involve any more of a pvp mechanic than it is now. But now the arguments are doing an about face. Curly now says it will make pvp too easy to find. Larry now says we already have so much pvp no one could possibly want more. Moe just apologizes. And Shemp admits he really doesn't mind that 90% of the warzone sov is determined by rabbits. .... Im mostly interested in which of the handful of possible events will start the pendulum swinging away from gallente in the gallente and caldari warzone. If this doesnt happen in the next 3-4 weeks, THEN i will accept something is broken, but using indicators that are exactly opposite to yours. As in, no gallente system is more than 60% contested, and their contested rates are falling. This indicates that caldari farmers are having little or no impact on the overall state of any system, even backwaters. Your wet dream. This will lead to a stagnant warzone which is the antitheses of the sov-light principal of FW. You want sov to be the pinnacle, its not, and no one outside some brain damaged roleplayers want it to be. Nullsec = Sov > PvP FW = PvP > Sov
You think that farmers are having no impact because the caldari are still losing? Is your reasoning is that farmers don't defensive plex because they don't make isk and therefore because the gallente are holding systems that must mean the farming isn't so bad?
If so that may be technically true about "farming" but the problem isn't so much "farmers" as it is "rabbits." Rabbits are fw plexers who run from all pvp because that is the most efficient way to plex. That is the main problem I see and that is even more rampant in defensive plexes.
The best indicator of whether fw sov is pvp is to look at the highest vp gainers for that day and then look at the killboard for the day they earned the highest amount of vp. The rest are just unreliable indicators. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1218
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:03:00 -
[256] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Why am I not surprised your math is terrible. 25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Every single person I've talked to has stated that notifications is moronic and dumbs down the game. This is coming from pvp'ers who participate in occupancy warfare, not the farmers. I apologize for not looking at your up-votes. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 21:27:00 -
[257] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Why am I not surprised your math is terrible. 25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Every single person I've talked to has stated that notifications is moronic and dumbs down the game. This is coming from pvp'ers who participate in occupancy warfare, not the farmers. I apologize for not looking at your up-votes.
Ill go with actual data instead of your claims.
Dumbs down the game? So the current mechanic where the best plexers fit stabs and run from all pvp requires more cleverness than pvping for the plex.
Great conclusion to reach. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
267
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:20:00 -
[258] - Quote
People against notifications may be too busy actually playing the game and fighting instead of running after defenseless farmers and crying on the forums ?
Also, if farmers are so important, why isn't caldari militia crushing gallente militia ? |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:46:00 -
[259] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:People against notifications may be too busy actually playing the game and fighting instead of running after defenseless farmers and crying on the forums ?
Also, if farmers are so important, why isn't caldari militia crushing gallente militia ?
Because gallente/minmatar have as many or more rabbits as the caldari/amarr. Minmatar and Gallente have about 10,000 pilots the amarr caldari have just under 9000.
Anyway I am finding more and more of the people who actually fight in the plexes are in neither militia. Its just basically a replacement for the top belt. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1219
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:48:00 -
[260] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Why am I not surprised your math is terrible. 25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Every single person I've talked to has stated that notifications is moronic and dumbs down the game. This is coming from pvp'ers who participate in occupancy warfare, not the farmers. I apologize for not looking at your up-votes. Ill go with actual data instead of your claims. Dumbs down the game? So the current mechanic where the best plexers fit stabs and run from all pvp requires more cleverness than pvping for the plex. Great conclusion to reach. Would you care to link the post with 25 upvotes? I can't find it in this thread. Maybe it is in some other thread somewhere? In fact you are the ONLY person in this thread that I have seen in favor of notifications. I could be wrong. There might be one more person in favor (with everybody else opposed), but the actual data in this thread is clear. The community is opposed to notifications.
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:49:00 -
[261] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Why am I not surprised your math is terrible. 25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Every single person I've talked to has stated that notifications is moronic and dumbs down the game. This is coming from pvp'ers who participate in occupancy warfare, not the farmers. I apologize for not looking at your up-votes. Ill go with actual data instead of your claims. Dumbs down the game? So the current mechanic where the best plexers fit stabs and run from all pvp requires more cleverness than pvping for the plex. Great conclusion to reach. Would you care to link the post with 25 upvotes? I can't find it in this thread. Maybe it is in some other thread somewhere? In fact you are the ONLY person in this thread that I have seen in favor of notifications. I could be wrong. There might be one more person in favor (with everybody else opposed), but the actual data in this thread is clear. The community is opposed to notifications.
Check my sig and the thread that is linked in that thread. That gives the actual proposal. Its more reliable than your claim that 250 people are against the idea. it was mainly just you, bm, super chair and veshta. And you guys are still trying to argue against it with varying contradictory arguments like: "It won't effect pvp in plexes" "It will make pvp too easy to find" etc.
But anyway ccp needs to look at the reasons given. The only arguments against the idea is "farmers are gonna farm" or "your not even in fw" or "if you don't like fw then quit"
I think they have enough sense to draw a reasonable conclusion. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
162
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:00:00 -
[262] - Quote
yes but that proposals over 2 years old a whole lot has changed since then and pvp has gone up without the notification... 2 yrs later ur still banging on bout it..... get outa the basement for ur own sanity man GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:06:00 -
[263] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:yes but that proposals over 2 years old a whole lot has changed since then and pvp has gone up without the notification... 2 yrs later ur still banging on bout it..... get outa the basement for ur own sanity man.
Ans when that other guy proposed it was wen plexes spawned randomly and was pushed around he wa proposing to make the plexes easier to find so others could get there to pvp... but now we know were all plexes are there in all fw systems
The top vp gainers still avoid pvp.
However you are right that they added lots of lp to plexing. So now we have allot of people with alts in fw that don't care about the actual sov game but don't want their easy isk removed by making it an actual pvp game.
edit that is why I don't really care what the current crop of players say. The only questions are whether ccp wants to make a sov a pvp game. And what are the reasons pro and con for timer rollback and notifications. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
162
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:09:00 -
[264] - Quote
Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:yes but that proposals over 2 years old a whole lot has changed since then and pvp has gone up without the notification... 2 yrs later ur still banging on bout it..... get outa the basement for ur own sanity man.
Ans when that other guy proposed it was wen plexes spawned randomly and was pushed around he wa proposing to make the plexes easier to find so others could get there to pvp... but now we know were all plexes are there in all fw systems The top vp gainers still avoid pvp. However you are right that they added lots of lp to plexing. So now we have allot of people with alts in fw that don't care about the actual sov game but don't want their easy isk removed by making it an actual pvp game. edit that is why I don't really care what the current crop of players say. The only questions are whether ccp wants to make a sov a pvp game. And what are the reasons pro and con for timer rollback and notifications.
hold on a minute dont u openly admit to having fw alts for isk is that u not really contradicitng urself im confused i mean your dogpiling the situation but also moaning about it
And yes there is alot of alts but the bulk of the militia that are interested in fights know exactly were to go to find them GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:16:00 -
[265] - Quote
The way i see it is really how many of those people that backed your proposal are still in militia today? including yourself. The people who your arguing with have stayed in militia through thick and thin and are mainly happy with the current iteration of fw but would like to see timer rollbacks as the next big step. These guys really know what feature will work and what wont.
as iv said before the only way to make sov realy a pvp game is do away with plexes and add sbus and tcus like in null sec but that would blow big time GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:19:00 -
[266] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:yes but that proposals over 2 years old a whole lot has changed since then and pvp has gone up without the notification... 2 yrs later ur still banging on bout it..... get outa the basement for ur own sanity man.
Ans when that other guy proposed it was wen plexes spawned randomly and was pushed around he wa proposing to make the plexes easier to find so others could get there to pvp... but now we know were all plexes are there in all fw systems The top vp gainers still avoid pvp. However you are right that they added lots of lp to plexing. So now we have allot of people with alts in fw that don't care about the actual sov game but don't want their easy isk removed by making it an actual pvp game. edit that is why I don't really care what the current crop of players say. The only questions are whether ccp wants to make a sov a pvp game. And what are the reasons pro and con for timer rollback and notifications. hold on a minute dont u openly admit to having fw alts for isk is that u not really contradicitng urself im confused i mean your dogpiling the situation but also moaning about it .....
Why shouldn't I cash in on broken mechanics like the rest? At least I point out its broken. But really I have enough isk to last me a long time so I rarely use the alts anymore. I do however use the plexes for fights. The plex mechanics always were a good venue for pvp thats the main reasons I mourn the fact that ccp doesn't fix fw sov. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:25:00 -
[267] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I do however use the plexes for fights. The plex mechanics always were a good venue for pvp
But according to you theres no pvp in plexes just stabbed farmer alts and you need a notification to find pvp
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:36:00 -
[268] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:The way i see it is really how many of those people that backed your proposal are still in militia today? including yourself. The people who your arguing with have stayed in militia through thick and thin and are mainly happy with the current iteration of fw but would like to see timer rollbacks as the next big step. These guys really know what feature will work and what wont.
as iv said before the only way to make sov realy a pvp game is do away with plexes and add sbus and tcus like in null sec but that would blow big time
No you really don't know much history of fw or the views of the players posting on these forums.
XG basically said fw was fixed after they did away with the downtime spawn mechanic.
Super chair pushed for better pay for plexing in the form of ships.
Bad messenger basically said it was fine even before the downtime spawn change.
And veshta can hardly be described was more disappointed in the changes than I was.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:39:00 -
[269] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote: I do however use the plexes for fights. The plex mechanics always were a good venue for pvp But according to you theres no pvp in plexes just stabbed farmer alts and you need a notification to find pvp
Again you are wrong. My problem is that the most efficient way to plex is to avoid pvp.
If we had a notification and timer rollback that would change. You would see the killboards of the people who got the most vp that day and you would see they are good pvpers instead of stabbed rabbits.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1219
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 03:08:00 -
[270] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Check my sig and the thread that is linked in that thread. . Edit: Misread. But I'm glad there are 13 people who gave you a thumbs up a long time ago. |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1219
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 03:18:00 -
[271] - Quote
Cearain wrote:XG basically said fw was fixed after they did away with the downtime spawn mechanic. They have never gotten rid of the after downtime mechanic. But I was happy with FW when they introduced the perpetual respawning plexes that minimized the effect of the after dt plexes. And with all the other iterations of FW, the current version is the best.
Of all the potential modifications in this thread, the notification system has received the least support.
Timer rollbacks is almost universally accepted as a good thing.
Removing warp core stabs and cloaks has received more support than the notification system.
Reducing isk/payouts or removing the Tier levels (the main cause of farmers - just notice how many show up once a side reached Tier 3) has received more support than the notification system.
More difficult to kill rats/only appropriately sized ships can run timers has received more support than a notification system.
Interesting data, don't you think?
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
310
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 03:44:00 -
[272] - Quote
Cearain - Not very fair of you to quote Super Chair from 18 months ago regarding a completely different fw system to what we have now. The thread you mention linked in you sig is so old and before so many fw changes that it's irrelevant now.
The fw we have now isn't too bad - yeah we all want it better but not if it breaks the game. Notifications are too much easy intel and will not provide organized alliances with any extra information. We usually know who, what and where the enemy are in the plexes without a notification system.
Forum Likes mean nothing - I have 310 at this time and I have posted one good idea ever. (Flame thrower Modules. They're an awesome idea + I'd wanna hear your drones scream as they burn)
Would also like to say gf to the froggies since we moved the alliance to Enaluri. It's been good fun fights most nights I log in and bother to undock.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 03:55:00 -
[273] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Check my sig and the thread that is linked in that thread. . Edit: Misread. But I'm glad there are 13 people who gave you a thumbs up a long time ago.
Not me a thumbs up they gave the idea of notifications a thumbs up. There were also and 12 more who did before ccp changed the forums. 25 is not allot in general but specific fw ideas traditionally do not get allot of support.
So for your 10% claim to work you would need 250 people saying they want to keep the current carebear race. Thats why I am more interested in the actual data than your claims.
I don't doubt you could get it with the current crop of rabbit alts. But I am just more interested in people with a brain who address the actual reasons for the proposals as opposed to those that just repeat your bad arguments like "farmers gonna farm" and "hey! yer not even in faction War." Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1219
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 04:07:00 -
[274] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Not me a thumbs up they gave the idea of notifications a thumbs up.
I'm glad 13 people gave notifications (not you) a thumbs up years ago. And I'm sorry that your notifications proposal is frowned upon by the majority of people in this thread. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 04:07:00 -
[275] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain - Not very fair of you to quote Super Chair from 18 months ago regarding a completely different fw system to what we have now. The thread you mention linked in you sig is so old and before so many fw changes that it's irrelevant now.
The problem is exactly the same. Its still most efficient to plex by avoiding pvp.
As far as super chair I don't know what his views are now. The only thing I know is he seems to have been butthurt about some post or other that I made so he tends to occassionally follow me around in the forums and make insults at me. Thats my impression of him.
Never met him in game, and I don't really care one way or another about him.
IbanezLaney wrote: The fw we have now isn't too bad - yeah we all want it better but not if it breaks the game. Notifications are too much easy intel and will not provide organized alliances with any extra information. We usually know who, what and where the enemy are in the plexes without a notification system.
With the current mechanics the pvpers can't control the rabbits. Look at the top vp gainers for a day and then look at their killboard for that day. That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. But if players want to protect the rabbits because they are too worried about free intel well that is their choice. But lets make it clear what the choice is. Its either pvpers winning sov or its rabbits winning sov.
IbanezLaney wrote: Forum Likes mean nothing - I have 310 at this time and I have posted one good idea ever. (Flame thrower Modules. They're an awesome idea + I'd wanna hear your drones scream as they burn)
Would also like to say gf to the froggies since we moved the alliance to Enaluri. It's been good fun fights most nights I log in and bother to undock.
The likes are for the post not for the person. I have no idea why the likes actually attach to the person.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
267
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 09:07:00 -
[276] - Quote
Notification would not prevent farmers from farming. They would still have cloak and WCS, and they would still cloak when you enter.
Notification though would prevent some pvper from pvping, because they would receive a blob each time they open a plex to attempt a not so unfair fight.
Also, it's impossible to make a system where farmers earn less than pvper, because pvper lose ships, because they fight, whereas farmers farm. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
826
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 09:36:00 -
[277] - Quote
Why is it still so very easy to do plex while fitting stabs and cloaks?
If i try to mine in a frig i get a low income, if i rat in 0.0 i get a low income and if i haul....
FW - do everything in a stabbed frig get paid just the same as anyone in any ship no matter how much better than the bare minimum.
Then you can layer on other stupid complications all you like, such as sov or bunker busting etc While the core is pve heaven doable on alts worth nothing to replace in low sec, its always going to be broken!
at least in incursions or WH there is some teamwork, skillpoints and focused ship fittings to get paid, of course that's too much work and few bother... but you know, its your game ccp, balance it. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 11:03:00 -
[278] - Quote
cearain wrote: No you really don't know much history of fw or the views of the players posting on these forums.
the guy who has all four races arguing with him says this to me hahahahahaha
cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia.
hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate
cearain wrote: Not me a thumbs up they gave the idea of notifications a thumbs up. There were also and 12 more who did before ccp changed the forums. 25 is not allot
that was 2-3 years ago and for a different stystem why dont you get that.. how many are around to vote today or even in fw if they ever was? GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Gorski Car
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
58
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 11:27:00 -
[279] - Quote
As honorable leader of the coalition of farmer pigs I laugh at ye poor peasant. Why would you ever join FW for anything other then the isk?
420 smoke lp erry day #implantcartel #young&rich #thuglifeswagger http://i.imgur.com/T814nFe.png |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 11:42:00 -
[280] - Quote
Gorski Car wrote:As honorable leader of the coalition of farmer pigs I laugh at ye poor peasant. Why would you ever join FW for anything other then the isk? 420 smoke lp erry day #implantcartel #young&rich #thuglifeswagger http://i.imgur.com/T814nFe.png
Then ull maybe able to afford a large pos next time you get a super/titan from ur farming and maybe shadow cartel wouldnt bump ur a55 out and rap3 it GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 12:02:00 -
[281] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Notification would not prevent farmers from farming. They would still have cloak and WCS, and they would still cloak when you enter.
Notification though would prevent some pvper from pvping, because they would receive a blob each time they open a plex to attempt a not so unfair fight.
Also, it's impossible to make a system where farmers earn less than pvper, because pvper lose ships, because they fight, whereas farmers farm.
A blob can't cover all 170 systems and all 4 different plex sizes. So it would need to split up and fight.
Notifications and timer rollback would mean its more efficient to stay and fight than constantly trying to run and hide. Hence it would end rabbit plexing. But some people think it would make pvp too easy to find. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Angelina Joliee
Project Stealth Squad The Initiative.
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 13:27:00 -
[282] - Quote
I am not a fw-guy. But i always asked myself why fw-plexes are so easy that they can be done in stealth-bombers and other frigs? If a plex would be more difficult - so that i need at least a battlecruiser to complete them, then the pvp-guys would have easier targets and more fun dont they?
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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 13:29:00 -
[283] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:Notification would not prevent farmers from farming. They would still have cloak and WCS, and they would still cloak when you enter.
Notification though would prevent some pvper from pvping, because they would receive a blob each time they open a plex to attempt a not so unfair fight.
Also, it's impossible to make a system where farmers earn less than pvper, because pvper lose ships, because they fight, whereas farmers farm. A blob can't cover all 170 systems and all 4 different plex sizes. So it would need to split up and fight. Notifications and timer rollback would mean its more efficient to stay and fight than constantly trying to run and hide. Hence it would end rabbit plexing. But some people think it would make pvp too easy to find.
A blob can easily cover 4 different plex sizes and in case of Amarr there are significantly less plexes to cover than 170. The result would be that solo in FW (which is already hard) would get impossible. Every time you enter a plex the next nearby blob would appear on scene. This would then also force offenders to blob up and as result we would get the same blob-crap as in 0.0. No thank you. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 13:33:00 -
[284] - Quote
Angelina Joliee wrote:I am not a fw-guy. But i always asked myself why fw-plexes are so easy that they can be done in stealth-bombers and other frigs? If a plex would be more difficult - so that i need at least a battlecruiser to complete them, then the pvp-guys would have easier targets and more fun dont they?
I can tell you why plexes are so easy: In the past they where hard, the result was that everybody running a plex did run immediatelly when a WT entered it, because he knew that having rat aggro + fighting one PVP player means instant death. For this reason CCP made plexing easy so that players can stay and fight inside the plex. Unfortunatelly CCP has not considered that WCS and clocking up inside the plex will get so common because of farmers. |
Darkinbad the Brightdayler
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:19:00 -
[285] - Quote
In a world where the masses eagerly blob and blap the weak and feed on their tears, it amuses me to see so much crying when the prey proves harder to catch.
Is it so terrible that new capsuleers can make a space living doing something no one else wants to do? The same people who complain about farmers are generally hunters who look for fights and have no interest in sitting on buttons for 20 minutes at a time.
Farmers don't actually decrease the amount of fights these people get; they are merely an additional population in FW systems that occasionally give the combat oriented pilots free kills. Will empty systems be somehow more interesting than farmer filled systems if warfare changes so that farming is no longer profitable?
Most farmers I know fall under one of two groups: new pilots making a living while they accumulate the skills to move on to something more interesting or surrogates who fund space battles for other pilots. In the first case, at least it's keeping people in space while they scale the learning cliff. In the second case, it's actively aiding in creating combat for people to find.
There is a third type of farmer. The kind who enjoys the cat and mouse game of plexing in a system full of pirates and WTs and the thrill of bouncing between celestials at varying warp-to distances, hoping not to accidentally land on top of hostiles or to get caught from behind. The type of pilots who relish every cry of "filthy farmer!" in local and who feed on the disappointment of every blood thirsty hack begging for a fight so they can pad their insignificant kill stats. For us, their tears are sweet sweet nectar.
And if you don't like it, stop being soft and, well, you know the saying. |
Anva Dante
Bunch of Noobs Logistics
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 14:33:00 -
[286] - Quote
I think the key to FW is silmply this:
T1 LP rewards are not worth doing. So people simply don't do them and FW becomes stale and people jump to higher tier FW.
If T1 was removed and T2,T3,T4,T5 rewards were dropped to T1,T2,T3,T4 then people would still want to fight/farm when they are T1.
As it stands as soon as factions hit T1 then no one can be bothered so the higher tier farmers farm uncontested. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:11:00 -
[287] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Cearain wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:Notification would not prevent farmers from farming. They would still have cloak and WCS, and they would still cloak when you enter.
Notification though would prevent some pvper from pvping, because they would receive a blob each time they open a plex to attempt a not so unfair fight.
Also, it's impossible to make a system where farmers earn less than pvper, because pvper lose ships, because they fight, whereas farmers farm. A blob can't cover all 170 systems and all 4 different plex sizes. So it would need to split up and fight. Notifications and timer rollback would mean its more efficient to stay and fight than constantly trying to run and hide. Hence it would end rabbit plexing. But some people think it would make pvp too easy to find. A blob can easily cover 4 different plex sizes and in case of Amarr there are significantly less plexes to cover than 170. The result would be that solo in FW (which is already hard) would get impossible. Every time you enter a plex the next nearby blob would appear on scene. This would then also force offenders to blob up and as result we would get the same blob-crap as in 0.0. No thank you.
I would first like to point out that different people are disagreeing with this proposal by claiming it will have completely opposite effects.
A) Some are claiming it will have no effect on rabbits because everyone will just ignore the notifications and no one will come to fight.
B) Others argue too many will come to fight and blobs will win.
Both can't be true.
My view is in between these 2 opposing positions.
Most major fleets will not respond to solo pilot running a small plex several jumps away, in fact most large fleets ignore plexers in the system they are currently in. Since they can't get the entire blob in, they usually won't send anyone in since they don't want to lose their tackle.
Smaller gangs that are set up to plex will likely respond. And yes I anticipate the warzone will be divided up so that militias can have people in all areas of the zone fighting for sov. There will of course still be gate camps for those who like that etc. But there will also be a great venue for small scale pvp.
I believe there are 70 systems in the amarr minmatar zone and 100 (or 101) in the gallente caldari. That is how I got the 170 systems. Each system can spawn 4 different sized plexes that will have different ship limits. If you want to win the sov war a miltiia will have to spread out.
If we find that fw plexing becomes too blobby then ccp can tweak things such as how the timer rollbacks and the notifications work. Moreover ccp may have to tweak the number of plexes that spawn etc. But these sorts of tweaks should be part of the ongoing process anyway.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:21:00 -
[288] - Quote
Darkinbad the Brightdayler wrote:In a world where the masses eagerly blob and blap the weak and feed on their tears, it amuses me to see so much crying when the prey proves harder to catch.
Is it so terrible that new capsuleers can make a space living doing something no one else wants to do? The same people who complain about farmers are generally hunters who look for fights and have no interest in sitting on buttons for 20 minutes at a time.
Farmers don't actually decrease the amount of fights these people get; they are merely an additional population in FW systems that occasionally give the combat oriented pilots free kills. Will empty systems be somehow more interesting than farmer filled systems if warfare changes so that farming is no longer profitable?
Most farmers I know fall under one of two groups: new pilots making a living while they accumulate the skills to move on to something more interesting or surrogates who fund space battles for other pilots. In the first case, at least it's keeping people in space while they scale the learning cliff. In the second case, it's actively aiding in creating combat for people to find.
There is also a third type of farmer. The kind who enjoys the cat and mouse game of plexing in a system full of pirates and WTs and the thrill of bouncing between celestials at varying warp-to distances, hoping not to accidentally land on top of hostiles or to get caught from behind. The type of pilots who relish every cry of "filthy farmer!" in local and who feed on the disappointment of every blood thirsty hack begging for a fight so they can pad their insignificant kill stats. For us, their tears are sweet sweet nectar.
And if you don't like it, stop being soft and, well, you know the saying.
I actually don't have anything against farming or pve in general.
People can farm epic missions, cosmos missions, fw missions, high sec low sec null sec missions, they can farm rats in low and null sec, they can farm incursions in high low and null sec, they can farm sleepers in wormholes etc etc, Leave it all I am fine with it.
Null sec sov can have their blob pvp. I don't care, if people like that then good for them.
All I ask is that we have just one quality pvp mechanic. FW sov can easilly fill that role. Does it also need to be yet another pve mechanic? How about a little more variety in eve?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
249
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 15:38:00 -
[289] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I would first like to point out that different people are disagreeing with this proposal by claiming it will have completely opposite effects.
A) Some are claiming it will have no effect on rabbits because everyone will just ignore the notifications and no one will come to fight.
B) Others argue too many will come to fight and blobs will win.
Both can't be true.
Yes it can. It can be true for different points in time. E.g. at the beginning when they introduce it B) will be true, because everybody will be eager to use the new tool. After some time rabbits will adapt to it by bouncing between many plexes for a short time to confuse the hunter. So hunters will find out that notifications are not reliable or they will find out they come too often too late and this will result in A) being true for some time. This will then swing forth and back like a pendulum over time. You always have to keep in mind that this is a dynamic game, things which work today might not work tomorrow just because people learn and start to adapt to it.
Cearain wrote: Most major fleets will not respond to solo pilot running a small plex several jumps away, in fact most large fleets ignore plexers in the system they are currently in. Since they can't get the entire blob in, they usually won't send anyone in since they don't want to lose their tackle.
Here is the point you overlook. If you blob consists out of 20 ships 5 of each size then even 5 ships are usually more then enough to kill any solo player especially in a Novice Plex. Considering that most FW-blobs are usually of Frigate of Dessy size even a small blob of 5 to 10 Frigs/Dessies can easily kill a Battleship if it is a well organized group.
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 16:12:00 -
[290] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Cearain wrote: I would first like to point out that different people are disagreeing with this proposal by claiming it will have completely opposite effects.
A) Some are claiming it will have no effect on rabbits because everyone will just ignore the notifications and no one will come to fight.
B) Others argue too many will come to fight and blobs will win.
Both can't be true.
Yes it can. It can be true for different points in time. E.g. at the beginning when they introduce it B) will be true, because everybody will be eager to use the new tool. After some time rabbits will adapt to it by bouncing between many plexes for a short time to confuse the hunter. So hunters will find out that notifications are not reliable or they will find out they come too often too late and this will result in A) being true for some time. This will then swing forth and back like a pendulum over time. You always have to keep in mind that this is a dynamic game, things which work today might not work tomorrow just because people learn and start to adapt to it.
So you are predicting that notifications will cause too many people (blobs) to go in a plex, and then all of sudden they will be ignored and no one will go in the plex, and then all of a sudden it will go back to too many people (blobs) again.
If it swings back and forth won't there be times when it is just right? Why are you so sure these times won't be the general rule. Right now rabbits are determining sov in 90% of the systems. They have been doing this pretty much since fw came out. Isn't it time we pushed this pendulum toward the pvpers?
Why do you think its impossible that adapting to it will mean dividing your pvp ships to cover the different areas of fw and actually fighting for the plexes?
If one militia is clearly outgunned for a time they will have to try to hit distant sections of the map all at once. If the enemy blob comes at top speed there may be traps. Also they will be leaving that section behind. So unless they leave some of their pvpers the smaller side can then start plexing there. If they try to take their time and scout everything out they will lose plexes. Finally there will be some strategic assignment of pilots, other than "everyone get in the blob." The side with better mobility, organization and pvp skill will be better than the side that can simply form the largest blob.
Cearain wrote: Most major fleets will not respond to solo pilot running a small plex several jumps away, in fact most large fleets ignore plexers in the system they are currently in. Since they can't get the entire blob in, they usually won't send anyone in since they don't want to lose their tackle.
Here is the point you overlook. If you blob consists out of 20 ships 5 of each size then even 5 ships are usually more then enough to kill any solo player especially in a Novice Plex. Considering that most FW-blobs are usually of Frigate of Dessy size even a small blob of 5 to 10 Frigs/Dessies can easily kill a Battleship if it is a well organized group. [/quote]
In my experience fcs of 20+ man fleets will rarely send all their tackle in to kill a single plexer. Because if they do they may miss tackle on something that the whole fleet could fight. Even if they lose just a ship or two it tends to hold up the fleet while those people reship. Generally fcs of large fw blobs are trying to just keep everyone together and firing at the primary.
Believe me. I have been in plenty of plexes and when I see large blobs of ships its really rare for them to go in the plex. But if they divide up their blob to fight I think that is a good thing. If I warp out will the blob stay there and wait for the timer? Will part of the blob stay? If so we just divided the blob.
The thing is, fw sov already has allot of safeguards against blobs winning the sov war in all the systems. Yes a blob will win in 10% of the systems. That is what we have now. But if the game improved where the factions cared about sov in the other 90% of systems then you would see blobs getting divided into smaller groups.
Also as a solo pilot I love fights where my one larger ship fights several smaller ships. Sometimes I make out well sometimes I get blanked but they are typically good fights. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1220
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 16:15:00 -
[291] - Quote
Cearain wrote:for them. All I ask is that we have just one quality pvp mechanic. Look into FW plexes lately? Great quality pvp mechanic. In fact, you yourself use them all the time to get fights.
Great debate. Thanks everybody for participating. We're done here! Let's move on to another topic.
Would you like to restate your request?
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:20:00 -
[292] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: All I ask is that we have just one quality pvp mechanic.
Look into FW plexes lately? Great quality pvp mechanic. In fact, you yourself use them all the time to get fights. Great debate. Thanks everybody for participating. We're done here! Let's move on to another topic. Would you like to restate your request?
Thats like saying ccp developed top astroid belts as a pvp mechanic.
Edit: sorry XG but threads like this will continue to pop up as long as fw sov is a carebear race. CCP might as well fix it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1239
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:39:00 -
[293] - Quote
Cearain wrote:[
Thats like saying ccp developed top astroid belts as a pvp mechanic.
Edit: sorry XG but threads like this will continue to pop up as long as fw sov is a carebear race. CCP might as well fix it.
Given all the rage against carebears, maybe you should consider that it's the carebears that actually run the show, and not the peeveepee'ers... Everyone needs the military to be the hammer, but anyone with any intelligence knows it's the EHM's that actually make stuff happen.
But you stick with your big hammer. I'll keep lurking behind the curtain with my alts. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:54:00 -
[294] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Cearain wrote:[
Thats like saying ccp developed top astroid belts as a pvp mechanic.
Edit: sorry XG but threads like this will continue to pop up as long as fw sov is a carebear race. CCP might as well fix it. Given all the rage against carebears, maybe you should consider that it's the carebears that actually run the show, and not the peeveepee'ers... Everyone needs the military to be the hammer, but anyone with any intelligence knows it's the EHM's that actually make stuff happen. But you stick with your big hammer. I'll keep lurking behind the curtain with my alts.
I have no rage against carebears. I gave lots of ways players can carebear in eve. I don't have an issue with any of them. Even in faction war they can run missions. Its fine with me.
I just wish fw sov didn't have to be yet another carebear mechanic. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 18:28:00 -
[295] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Why am I not surprised your math is terrible. 25 people upvoted notifications and you think that is less than 10% of people who have voiced an opinion on it. Every single person I've talked to has stated that notifications is moronic and dumbs down the game. This is coming from pvp'ers who participate in occupancy warfare, not the farmers. I apologize for not looking at your up-votes. Ill go with actual data instead of your claims. Dumbs down the game? So the current mechanic where the best plexers fit stabs and run from all pvp requires more cleverness than pvping for the plex. Great conclusion to reach. Would you care to link the post with 25 upvotes? I can't find it in this thread. Maybe it is in some other thread somewhere? In fact you are the ONLY person in this thread that I have seen in favor of notifications. I could be wrong. There might be one more person in favor (with everybody else opposed), but the actual data in this thread is clear. The community is opposed to notifications.
Look at my sig for the proposal with 13 and then in that you will see the link with the proposal before the forums changed. There will you see the 12 upvotes from the people posting.
Not that it will or should make a difference to you. You should consider the reasons that are given for or against it.
If you agree with the people you spoke with and think pvping to win plexes instead of rabbit plexing would dumb down the game, then you should continue to object to the proposal.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1228
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 20:34:00 -
[296] - Quote
Dude, you're answering the same things multiple times now. And again, I'm glad 13 people gave you an upvote years ago and are somewhat disappointed nearly everybody today puts a notification system at the bottom of a list of potential modifications to occupancy warfare plexing mechanics. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 21:13:00 -
[297] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Dude, you're answering the same things multiple times now. And again, I'm glad 13 people gave you an upvote years ago and are somewhat disappointed nearly everybody today puts a notification system at the bottom of a list of potential modifications to occupancy warfare plexing mechanics.
You kept asking how I figured the 25 upvotes. So I kept giving the same answer, because the math was the same. You still appearantly can't count. But I am going to stop trying to help you with that.
The rest of your post is not really intelligible, but thats ok. I don't care how popular you think the proposal is. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1228
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 21:18:00 -
[298] - Quote
Cearain wrote:The rest of your post is not really intelligible, but thats ok. I don't care how popular you think the proposal is. I'll make it easy for you. Your notifications proposal has received less support than almost every other proposal out there. |
raven666wings
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 21:31:00 -
[299] - Quote
http://frabz.com/3lq3 |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 21:55:00 -
[300] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:The rest of your post is not really intelligible, but thats ok. I don't care how popular you think the proposal is. I'll make it easy for you. Your notifications proposal has received less support than almost every other proposal out there.
Then it should be easy to provide links to 5 other specific assembly hall fw proposals in the last 3 years that had/have over 25 upvotes.
Until you post them, I think I will believe my own eyes, rather than your posts.
BTW: I am only asking for 5 so you can use your fingers to help you count. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1229
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:03:00 -
[301] - Quote
Just look at this thread and start counting how much support your proposal has and compare it to any number of other suggestions.
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
164
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:14:00 -
[302] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: All I ask is that we have just one quality pvp mechanic.
Look into FW plexes lately? Great quality pvp mechanic. In fact, you yourself use them all the time to get fights. Great debate. Thanks everybody for participating. We're done here! Let's move on to another topic. Would you like to restate your request? Thats like saying ccp developed top astroid belts as a pvp mechanic. Edit: sorry XG but threads like this will continue to pop up as long as fw sov is a carebear race. CCP might as well fix it.
threads like this its you who keeps sh!tting them up and only you making them pop up.... also were are all these people that upvoted you on your proposal i dont see any of them defending it here or in the other 20 threads youve sh!tted up GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
164
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:16:00 -
[303] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
Look at my sig for the proposal with 13 and then in that you will see the link with the proposal before the forums changed. There will you see the 12 upvotes from the people posting.
that was 3 years ago things was different why dont you get that?
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
861
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:17:00 -
[304] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:The rest of your post is not really intelligible, but thats ok. I don't care how popular you think the proposal is. I'll make it easy for you. Your notifications proposal has received less support than almost every other proposal out there. Then it should be easy to provide links to 5 other specific assembly hall fw proposals in the last 3 years that had/have over 25 upvotes. Until you post them, I think I will believe my own eyes, rather than your posts. BTW: I am only asking for 5 so you can use your fingers to help you count.
X Gallentius wrote:Just look at this thread and start counting how much support your proposal has and compare it to any number of other suggestions.
There seems to be 2 patterns here.
1) I make a claim. You ask for links to back it up. I give the links.
2) You make a claim. I ask for links to back it up. You just keep talking with no links to back up what you claim. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1229
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:26:00 -
[305] - Quote
The pattern is clear in this thread. Timer rollbacks have near universal support. Proposed notifications are nearly universally rejected.
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Gorski Car
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
58
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:55:00 -
[306] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:http://frabz.com/3lq3
The hero FW needs now. Keep farming farmer pigs. |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
244
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 23:02:00 -
[307] - Quote
Cearain wrote: There seems to be 2 patterns here.
1) I make a claim. You ask for links to back it up. I give the links.
2) You make a claim. I ask for links to back it up. You just keep talking with no links to back up what you claim.
well, at least he's got alts to like his unsupported claims. sort of like ogb for forums.
nerf alt likes!
PS - i'd like to see a notification system of sorts. |
Ak'athra J'ador
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 23:07:00 -
[308] - Quote
I'm in FW space, but not in FW and I think a notification system makes sense. In fact, it may make sense elsewhere in EVE as part of the solution for that SOV system overhaul... |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1232
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 23:10:00 -
[309] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:well, at least he's got alts to like his unsupported claims. sort of like ogb for forums. nerf alt likes! PS - i'd like to see a notification system of sorts. That's one. Who's next?
Seriously, I (quickly, could have missed somebody) went through this thread and didn't find anybody else in support of notifications. There was universal support for timer rollbacks and many more posters agreeing with other suggestions than the notifications.
Edit: Two now. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
356
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 00:35:00 -
[310] - Quote
We already have a notification system in FW.
The FW page tells you if a system is contected. Also the outpost themselves shout for help thats why they appear on your overview for easy warpage.....
Timer roll backs just make sense.
oh bugger! I just realised I agreed with a frog I need to go scrub those nasty thoughts out of my head now!! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 02:14:00 -
[311] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate
Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve.
Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
313
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 08:43:00 -
[312] - Quote
Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve. Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers.
Cearain - notifications won't change that.
Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri'
2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example)
PvP is now all blob warfare.
So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well.
and guess what....
After we drive him out or if lucky kill him, we all leave for the next 'notification'
The PvPers still have not and will not run the plex.
WHY?? Cause we now have a system feeding us intel and we can just pew pew 23/7 and never need to sit in a plex running it down waiting for a fight.
Your system will provide the opposite effect of what you intend.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
165
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:23:00 -
[313] - Quote
The huge blob is not the problem i see this is were im at with the notification idea :-
Say for instance im running a plex solo, in the surrounding systems theres 3-4 pilots all solo and in no communication with each other with the notification system set to say 4 jumps, now all of these pilots get the same notification and rush there for a nice fight (in the perfect counter ship) and unintentionally theyve all turned up in system together and turned into a mini blob, Now i know in my t1 frig i cant fight all 4 at once maybe 1-2 and id try and fight but not 4 therefore id fly away and safe up.
So cearain ur proposal that makes it a pvp mechanic could actually be flawed GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
165
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 11:31:00 -
[314] - Quote
Cearain wrote:A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers.
Maybe just maybe the pvper isnt bothered about the LP from a plex and just uses it for fights and then just moves on after hes had his fight, he would be active in pvp but not have high VP.. GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
829
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:41:00 -
[315] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well.
Not just the other militias, you have to remember any tom dique or harry can roll an alt and plop it into FW, which means any random active gang in low sec (or even from anywhere) can just look on their alt and be lead directly to the FW gang - this would be a terrible TERRIBLE situation - esp for bunker busting!
Definitely a chance to break FW even more, need to be careful with this people! http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D
220
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 12:59:00 -
[316] - Quote
In case of Muad, that would mean everyone in lowsec would come running, hoping to catch something shiny ;) |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
90
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:34:00 -
[317] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve. Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers. Cearain - notifications won't change that. Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well. and guess what.... After we drive him out or if lucky kill him, we all leave for the next 'notification' The PvPers still have not and will not run the plex. WHY?? Cause we now have a system feeding us intel and we can just pew pew 23/7 and never need to sit in a plex running it down waiting for a fight. Your system will provide the opposite effect of what you intend.
Everybody is missing the point. The current sov system is decided by PVPers. This is a fact. If I want to take a plex and the other sides wants to defend it, there will be a fight. The problem is people don't care about defending 95% of the systems. This PVP only happens in home systems where the incentive to defend exists because the defenders want to continue to dock there.
If I learn about a plexer in a system I don't care about, why should I care? I know he's probably a cloaky/stabbed plexer, so there won't be a fight. Why bother? Even if I do chase him out of the plex and "win", I now have to spend up to 2x more time running the button and then will most likely get crap LP. The problem is there is no point to defend meaningless systems.
This FW sov system is actually almost the perfect sov system. It is so much better than 0.0. If nobody defends the system for more than 12 hours a day, it will easily fall. This is perfect, we should not be asking for this to change. What we should be asking for is a reason to defend systems that we don't care if we can dock in or not. Oh yeah, we also need to make sure we don't break the never ending concept of FW such that we create a natural pendulum that swings back and forth such that the winning side cannot ever truly win. I don't see how we can both ensure the winner never truly wins and provide an incentive for defending every system, as these two ideas seem to be mutually exclusive. . |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 13:59:00 -
[318] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve. Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers. Cearain - notifications won't change that. Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well.
Ok I would just ask that you at least acknowledge that you have a directly contradictory position from many others that object to the proposal.
You are claiming too many people will respond to the notifications. While many others are claiming no one will respond.
But lets look at your scenario. XG is in an atron. You said he was in a novice plex and a blob comes. Is the entire blob in t1 frigates so they can enter the plex? If not XG may get a fight right there in his atron.
Now lets say that they are all in frigates that can enter the plex. Well then XG can ship up to something like a dessie or cruiser and run a larger plex. (I know this may be tough with the bad station lockout mechanic, but even with them he should have a non-fw ssytem within a few jumps that he can keep ships in) He will then get a fight.
The other thing he can do is communicate with others and instead of blobbing up spread out. Is the entire group following him? If so then others in his miltia can run plexes right next door. If they don't spread out and keep several pilots on one pilot they will lose the plexing war. But now when they lose it will be because they do not have good enough pvpers to match up even odds with the enemy. In other words the best pvpers win.
IbanezLaney wrote:[ and guess what....
After we drive him out or if lucky kill him, we all leave for the next 'notification'
The PvPers still have not and will not run the plex.
WHY?? Cause we now have a system feeding us intel and we can just pew pew 23/7 and never need to sit in a plex running it down waiting for a fight.
Actually that intel is a reason why pvpers will stay in the plex and run them. They know that the enemy will be notified of their whereabouts and will likely respond. All the militias have people who like to pvp. As much as people like to think their own miltia is the only one with pvpers that view is simply not true.
The best sov militias will be the ones that can best spread out and use use their pilots. And have the best pvpers. If every pilot in one militia requires a blob to come and dislodge him from a plex then either the other militia will need to have several times the number of active pilots or they will lose.
At first there will be somewhat of an exodus from militia as the plex farmers leave. But over time I think the number of pvpers will keep growing. In fact this will be such a great pvp venue the number of people playing eve as a whole will grow. Eve will no longer be the boring game where it takes forever to get a bit of pvp action. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:17:00 -
[319] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:
Everybody is missing the point. The current sov system is decided by PVPers. This is a fact. If I want to take a plex and the other sides wants to defend it, there will be a fight. The problem is people don't care about defending 95% of the systems.
We agree on the bolded part. But we disagree as to why they don't care. I think they don't care because the game is no fun and horrible. If the game was fun and involved pvp then people woudl care. But if you go in these systems and plex there are very few enemies that will even know you are there let alone fight you. Since they don't know you are there you are looking at a boring night of orbitting buttons. So my view is to make the game a good game and fun and people will care.
You on the other hand seem to focus on consequences. You take the approach that well if we give or take something then they will do it even if it is boring. Station lockouts is a good example. They are why corps are requiring people to waste their eve time orbitting a button everyday. If a game is so boring people don't want to play it, then forcing people to play the boring game will not improve it.
After inferno the isk consequences where huge. But many pvpers still didn't want to get their alts all orbiting buttons. Why? Because eve is just a game and people have better things to do with their time than play a boring game like that.
Make it a game where you sign on and get tons of exciting pvp action, instead of rabbit alt plexing. And then people will care about winning.
Andre Vauban wrote: This PVP only happens in home systems where the incentive to defend exists because the defenders want to continue to dock there.
If I learn about a plexer in a system I don't care about, why should I care? I know he's probably a cloaky/stabbed plexer, so there won't be a fight. Why bother? Even if I do chase him out of the plex and "win", I now have to spend up to 2x more time running the button and then will most likely get crap LP. The problem is there is no point to defend meaningless systems.
This FW sov system is actually almost the perfect sov system. It is so much better than 0.0. If nobody defends the system for more than 12 hours a day, it will easily fall. This is perfect, we should not be asking for this to change. What we should be asking for is a reason to defend systems that we don't care if we can dock in or not. Oh yeah, we also need to make sure we don't break the never ending concept of FW such that we create a natural pendulum that swings back and forth such that the winning side cannot ever truly win. I don't see how we can both ensure the winner never truly wins and provide an incentive for defending every system, as these two ideas seem to be mutually exclusive.
No its not perfect. In fact fw sov is so bad most people don't care about it. Its allot like null sec sov where people get in blobs in a select few systems and the rest of zone is just farmed. FW can offer an alternative to blob null sec, where people are spread out fighting throughout the warzone. But ccp has to decide to implement the changes. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
833
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:34:00 -
[320] - Quote
Funny how all the benefits of FW seem to be enjoyed by those not in it, or those that farm with a low skilled alt and all the bad things and downsides are avoided while the serious FW players that want to play and enjoy a balanced feature have to deal with them!
addicted to failure?
JOIN THE ARMY FACTION WAR http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:54:00 -
[321] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Funny how all the benefits of FW seem to be enjoyed by those not in it, or those that farm with a low skilled alt and all the bad things and downsides are avoided while the serious FW players that want to play and enjoy a balanced feature have ot deal with them!
I am getting allot more fights as a neutral fighting in plexes than I ever did in faction war.
GCC is gone!
I have 10s of billions of isk in ships and fittings throughout the 2 warzones that I can access regardless of what the farmers do. Being able to reship quickly is a huge advantage.
I do not have anyone in corp telling me I need to run a defensive plex everyday. (not that my old corp did that, but I understand a gallente corp is doing that.)
I don't get lp but I already have allot of it. Since its so depreciated I really don't know whatto buy with it. If I did want more of it I have alts for that.
From a pvpers perspective there is no reason to join faction war. The timer rollbacks won't make being in militia (as opposed to a neutral pvping in plexes) any better either. I am looking forward to that change. Becasue right now I finding that the number of plexers in fw that stay and fight is rapidly dropping compared to the number of neutrals that use plexes as the new top belt.
Now notifciations or plexes, or a map that indicated where people were running them..... that would be a reason for a pvper to join fw. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 14:59:00 -
[322] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well. Not just the other militias, you have to remember any tom dique or harry can roll an alt and plop it into FW, which means any random active gang in low sec (or even from anywhere) can just look on their alt and be lead directly to the FW gang - this would be a terrible TERRIBLE situation - esp for bunker busting! Definitely a chance to break FW even more, need to be careful with this people!
It would be great for plexes, to have more people fighting in them. If its bad for bunker busting, then don't give notifications on bunker busting. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1239
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:00:00 -
[323] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: That would change if we had notifications. The best pvpers in eve would be the most sought after for each militia. hahaha and the roads are paved with gold and houses are made of candy..... stop dreaming mate Again we think different. I think that fw already has many of the best small gang pvpers in eve. Unfortunately, their pvp abilities don't really contribute to the sov war effort under these mechanics. A 2 day alt can, and usually will, capture more plexes than the best pvpers. Cearain - notifications won't change that. Lets say we had your system: I get a notification saying 'X Gal is in a T1 derp Atron in the Novice Outpost in Enaluri' 2 min later a [PLEX] blob hits that plex. (Pretending we blob for the example) PvP is now all blob warfare. So what does X Gal need to do next time ??? He has no choice but to form up and bring the blob as well. and guess what.... After we drive him out or if lucky kill him, we all leave for the next 'notification' The PvPers still have not and will not run the plex. WHY?? Cause we now have a system feeding us intel and we can just pew pew 23/7 and never need to sit in a plex running it down waiting for a fight. Your system will provide the opposite effect of what you intend. XG warps into plex all alone.... and then has blob waiting on other side of gate, in safe spot, or camping in-gate to system with arty thrashers waiting for your blob. So, in one sense it's good for pvp because we don't have to scout around looking for trouble. In another sense, it's bad because we'll all just sit in station playing DUST until we get a notification that a plex is under attack. Then we'll undock and go at it.
However, what I don't think will happen is me (one of the more occupancy warfare centric players out there) caring whether or not some alt in the opposing faction is farming in Uphallant. Maybe Aldranette - if it is highly contested. I'll run over there and push him out, but I'm still not going to sit on the button after he leave just because there's a notification system.
I think Cearain puts too much hope in people using their gaming time to chase alts in far off systems. I don't think he'll do it. I don't think anybody in favor of a Notification System will do it. I think (I could be wrong) that they all hope SOMEBODY ELSE will do it for them. Maybe somebody will, but probably not. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1239
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:13:00 -
[324] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote: This FW sov system is actually almost the perfect sov system. It is so much better than 0.0. If nobody defends the system for more than 12 hours a day, it will easily fall. This is perfect, we should not be asking for this to change. What we should be asking for is a reason to defend systems that we don't care if we can dock in or not.
I think the Tier system is supposed to provide the motivation. However, it's the Tier system that provides the motivation for alts to come out in force.
I don't think there's a great answer for this other than bending the rules to provide real consequences to those who aren't willing to defend the plex they are running (Timer rollback, or perhaps amplified timer rollback (2x pace).), or reducing payouts for plexes so that there is still a decent income for us to replace ships but not enough for others to farm. What I've experiences on the Gallente side is that the limit is somewhere above Tier 1 payouts and just slightly below Tier 2. (Tier 3 = farmers, definitely)
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 16:58:00 -
[325] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:XG warps into plex all alone.... and then has blob waiting on other side of gate, in safe spot, or camping in-gate to system with arty thrashers waiting for your blob. So, in one sense it's good for pvp because we don't have to scout around looking for trouble. In another sense, it's bad because we'll all just sit in station playing DUST until we get a notification that a plex is under attack. Then we'll undock and go at it.
First, thanks for using a more civil tone. I will try to do the same.
I think you see that just because you know someone is in a plex - even if you know their name, ship type, number of skill points, and mothers maiden name, there can still be surprises and reasons for larger fleets to scout.
I think there would be lots of plexes being run pretty much everywhere and all the time.
But lets assume I am wrong, and no plexes are being run. At any time anyone could get the pvp ball rolling by simply opening a plex.
When I was in fw I too did some sov stuff. But if I killed someone in a plex and didn't see that anyone else in system was coming in, I would leave before the timer ran. There was a much greater chance that I would find a fight by moving on rather than sitting there.
However, if the enemy knew I was there capping a plex, I might be more inclined to stay and actually capture the plex. After all if I leave then I may leave right before someone was going to come in.
X Gallentius wrote: However, what I don't think will happen is me (one of the more occupancy warfare centric players out there) caring whether or not some alt in the opposing faction is farming in Uphallant. Maybe Aldranette - if it is highly contested. I'll run over there and push him out, but I'm still not going to sit on the button after he leave just because there's a notification system.
I think Cearain puts too much hope in people using their gaming time to chase alts in far off systems. I don't think he'll do it. I don't think anybody in favor of a Notification System will do it. I think (I could be wrong) that they all hope SOMEBODY ELSE will do it for them. Maybe somebody will, but probably not.
I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. That is actually, often allot of systems. I think militia players interested in sov would spread out and prevent plexes being taken by rabbits. The idea would be that you need to react fast before plexes are taken. I also think it would be a very fluid and dynamic system - to say the least. More likely it would be a chaotic mass of explosions. So many explosions, that players would actually need that lp from plexes they manage to capture just to keep their head above water.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
90
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 17:43:00 -
[326] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. That is actually, often allot of systems. I think militia players interested in sov would spread out and prevent plexes being taken by rabbits. The idea would be that you need to react fast before plexes are taken. I also think it would be a very fluid and dynamic system - to say the least. More likely it would be a chaotic mass of explosions. So many explosions, that players would actually need that lp from plexes they manage to capture just to keep their head above water.
We already kind of do this. Every night when QCATS runs our not-a-fleet fleet, we have an alt (or QCATS toon) in every single system within 2-4 jumps from Nisuwa. We know when a plex is being run. When we see its a farmer, we ignore them (unless it is Nisuwa or Notoras, in which case we blob them). If it looks like the plex is being run because the person wants a fight, we try to not blob them to take the fight.
The problem with your statement is there is no motivation for chasing the rabbits. There is no killmail to be had, it is not fun, there is no financial reward, and it doesn't help the sov war in any way shape or form as you must spend more time than the farmer to undo the damage (ie the farmer wins because they waste more man-hours of the enemies time).
Maybe I just have a warped sense of what FW is. FW for me and most of QCATS is simply the best place to find small gang combat and make some isk on the side when there isn't a planned fleet or operation. As long as we can get PVP and enough LP to cover our losses at the same time and continue to dock, we're mostly happy. We've also made quite a large number of friends in Gallente Militia that we just couldn't shoot, so we stay. As an example, Loren Gallen posted in local something like "It's weird to see you guys not blue" the other night. Right after he posted that, a few flashy reds uncloaked on the gate and we quickly ganked them. After that several of us were said "Oh my God, did we just gank Loren? Check the killmails, I hope we didn't just gank Loren". It's hard to actively try and kill people in Eve with whom you've literally been flying with for 5+ years. . |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1241
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 18:04:00 -
[327] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Cearain wrote:I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. We already kind of do this. Every night when QCATS runs our not-a-fleet fleet, we have an alt (or QCATS toon) in every single system within 2-4 jumps from Nisuwa. The problem with your statement is there is no motivation for chasing the rabbits. There is no killmail to be had, it is not fun, there is no financial reward, and it doesn't help the sov war in any way shape or form as you must spend more time than the farmer to undo the damage (ie the farmer wins because they waste more man-hours of the enemies time). This pretty much nails the "objection" to the notification system. To us, it seems like it will miss on achieving it's stated purpose of "turning backwater system plex warfare into a pvp mechanic."
Another option to "make people care about the entire theater" is to remove several constellations nobody cares about from the FW arena.
Gallente/Caldari FW View as Constellations
The first six constellations in the following list could easily be removed from the map and nobody would care, tbh. 1. Fislepsisnes 2. Otasawa 3. Ieyama 4. Serthoulde 5. Obrey 6. Urpiken 7. Kurala (I think one Caldari corporation likes Okkamon) 8. Woencke (a Caldari corporation actually lives in Loes right now, so this is where the list ends) |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 19:30:00 -
[328] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Cearain wrote:
I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. That is actually, often allot of systems. I think militia players interested in sov would spread out and prevent plexes being taken by rabbits. The idea would be that you need to react fast before plexes are taken. I also think it would be a very fluid and dynamic system - to say the least. More likely it would be a chaotic mass of explosions. So many explosions, that players would actually need that lp from plexes they manage to capture just to keep their head above water.
We already kind of do this. Every night when QCATS runs our not-a-fleet fleet, we have an alt (or QCATS toon) in every single system within 2-4 jumps from Nisuwa. We know when a plex is being run. When we see its a farmer, we ignore them (unless it is Nisuwa or Notoras, in which case we blob them). If it looks like the plex is being run because the person wants a fight, we try to not blob them to take the fight. The problem with your statement is there is no motivation for chasing the rabbits. There is no killmail to be had, it is not fun, there is no financial reward, and it doesn't help the sov war in any way shape or form as you must spend more time than the farmer to undo the damage (ie the farmer wins because they waste more man-hours of the enemies time).
Believe it or not we are thinking on the same track. In terms of man hours wasted for pvpers versus farmers we want changes that cost the farmers more man hours and saves the pvpers. This is really what I beleive must happen for sov to be fixed. Notifications would make it less efficient for the rabbits and more efficient for the pvpers.
What you guys do with alts could be done without them, with notifications. I'll admit I am not a big fan of playing multiple characters in a game at the same time - it really ruins the immersion and turns it into work for me. That might be a problem unique to me. But wouldn't you ever just rather run with your pvp character in a gang and fight in this war? Focus on other things besides your alts screen? If you had notifications you could use those alts for something else or focus all your time on your pvp character.
BTW Amarr does the same thing (or at least they used to) in and around sisiede. They don't need to dock in sisiede since egg is right there but its a good way to find fights in this current mechanic. Its a good system under these mechanics but it doesn't reach very far. Those 5 or so pilots could each be covering a seperate constellation.
Why prevent the farmers from winning space? So you can win it. Sure eve is a sandbox and fw is too so you can make what you want of it. But really the game is to win space. Thats why caldari and gallente got medals from ccp and no other action in fw warranted a medal. The game is supposed to be about winning sov.
Just a question. If you get tired of chasing rabbits and dplexing why don't you just move to a low sec system outside fw? That is what amarr did. The area orriginally wasn't really populated but the pvp moved to where they moved. The same would happen for you guys. Personally I would have left fw long ago if my corp chose to stay in fw space and required that I do defensive plexing to counter the rabbits.
Andre Vauban wrote: .... We've also made quite a large number of friends in Gallente Militia that we just couldn't shoot, so we stay. As an example, Loren Gallen posted in local something like "It's weird to see you guys not blue" the other night. Right after he posted that, a few flashy reds uncloaked on the gate and we quickly ganked them. After that several of us were said "Oh my God, did we just gank Loren? Check the killmails, I hope we didn't just gank Loren". It's hard to actively try and kill people in Eve with whom you've literally been flying with for 5+ years.
Yeah I agree. This is the worst part of leaving fw. I avoid allot of the systems my old corpmates are from. I, of course, don't mind if they attack me (and I will of course defend myself) but I don't feel entirely comfortable shooting them either.
If I had to do it all over again, with these current mechanics, I would have pvped in plexes as a neutral and never joined faction war. Thats why I tell new players interested in pvp not to join faction war.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
361
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 20:57:00 -
[329] - Quote
Attacking former corp mates is fine as long as you are both aware that it's not a personal attack.
When I was in the rebels we used to attack each other all the time. Even now I'll happy engage any of my former corps in pvp because they know I'm doing it for a GF. And of course they know how crap I am and will happy engage me back That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
166
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 22:21:00 -
[330] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:The huge blob is not the problem i see, this is were im at with the notification idea :- Say for instance im running a plex solo, in the surrounding systems theres 3-4 pilots all solo and in no communication with each other with the notification system set to say 4 jumps, now all of these pilots get the same notification and rush there for a nice fight (in the perfect counter ship) and unintentionally theyve all turned up in system together and turned into a mini blob, Now i know in my t1 frig/dessie/cruiser i cant fight all 4 at once maybe 1-2 and id try and fight but not 4 therefore id fly away and safe up. So Cearain ur proposal that makes it a pvp mechanic could actually be flawed Forcing someone out is not PvP or having a fun time its just boring for all and even more time wasted than if theyd stumbled across me on there own
so come on then cearain enlighten us how to change this situation i have been @ work all day and expected an answer when i got bk GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
562
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 23:04:00 -
[331] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:The huge blob is not the problem i see, this is were im at with the notification idea :- Say for instance im running a plex solo, in the surrounding systems theres 3-4 pilots all solo and in no communication with each other with the notification system set to say 4 jumps, now all of these pilots get the same notification and rush there for a nice fight (in the perfect counter ship) and unintentionally theyve all turned up in system together and turned into a mini blob, Now i know in my t1 frig/dessie/cruiser i cant fight all 4 at once maybe 1-2 and id try and fight but not 4 therefore id fly away and safe up. So Cearain ur proposal that makes it a pvp mechanic could actually be flawed Forcing someone out is not PvP or having a fun time its just boring for all and even more time wasted than if theyd stumbled across me on there own so come on then cearain enlighten us how to change this situation i have been @ work all day and expected an answer when i got bk
For all his bluster, cearain isnt really interested in pvp, he just cares about sov. You can tell this by the way only his farmer alts are in fw and his pvp alts get barely any kills. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
166
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 00:22:00 -
[332] - Quote
cearain wrote: But if I killed someone in a plex and didn't see that anyone else in system was coming in, I would leave before the timer ran. There was a much greater chance that I would find a fight by moving on rather than sitting there.
I also missed this .. hmmmm most pvpers do this, but then they dont build up vps so then the farmer/defensive alt will always be the top vp winner...............
seems like you killed your own argument right there GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 03:28:00 -
[333] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:The huge blob is not the problem i see, this is were im at with the notification idea :- Say for instance im running a plex solo, in the surrounding systems theres 3-4 pilots all solo and in no communication with each other with the notification system set to say 4 jumps, now all of these pilots get the same notification and rush there for a nice fight (in the perfect counter ship) and unintentionally theyve all turned up in system together and turned into a mini blob, Now i know in my t1 frig/dessie/cruiser i cant fight all 4 at once maybe 1-2 and id try and fight but not 4 therefore id fly away and safe up. So Cearain ur proposal that makes it a pvp mechanic could actually be flawed Forcing someone out is not PvP or having a fun time its just boring for all and even more time wasted than if theyd stumbled across me on there own so come on then cearain enlighten us how to change this situation i have been @ work all day and expected an answer when i got bk
Ok I will give what I would do based on my experience on the amarr minmatar front.
If they came in staggered I would get 4 fights. If they just happened to land at the same time I would burn away from the warp in. If not all warp in I would warp out and back to the gate to see if I could get a fight there. If all 4 warp in and stay together I would keep my distance and be sure to get 1 cycle of a td on each of them. Then just wait a bit. Since the minmatar were not together they will soon start arguing about who is stealing lp from whom. This will soon turn to combat and maybe even wardecs. After 3 of the 4 are dead I would burn back and kill the last. Then I would post the battle report that shows me along with 4 dead war targets in my corp or alliance chat.
But anyway you don't have to fly away and "safe up." Warp away and back to the gate. Keep the short scan on. If 3 warp away, you warp in. If one or 2 warp away wait to see if they warp back and fight outside the gate. Also you could get in a larger ship and and see if they will want to fight in a larger plex. Maybe even open another plex the same size and see if they all come in that plex. If only 3 come go back to the first plex to see if one is still there.
Also you can get on your coms to see if anyone can come to help and even up the odds. Your militia will also see them come in and perhaps come into system. These sorts of fights are really great when they happen. People just rolling in and fortunes changing back and forth. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 03:30:00 -
[334] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: But if I killed someone in a plex and didn't see that anyone else in system was coming in, I would leave before the timer ran. There was a much greater chance that I would find a fight by moving on rather than sitting there.
I also missed this .. hmmmm most pvpers do this, but then they dont build up vps so then the farmer/defensive alt will always be the top vp winner............... seems like you killed your own argument right there
Not sure what you mean. If I knew the enemy at least knew I was there, I would be more likely to stay and finish the plex. Therefore the pvpers would get more vp, and have a larger impact on the war then they currently do. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Juan Rayo
Justified Chaos
53
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 04:09:00 -
[335] - Quote
Join FW. Log in. Roam OR: Ask in corp / militia / intel channels "Any caldari/gallente/minmatar/slaver plexing around?" Get responses, go pew or ignore, it-¦s up to you.
This is also known as "Notification system" .
Works great and it-¦s ALL the players. Want to know about enemy plexing in backwater systems? go there. Or convince more pilots/people to join and live on those systems. Also works. And again, it-¦s ALL about the players. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
562
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 07:59:00 -
[336] - Quote
Cearain wrote:If all 4 warp in and stay together I would keep my distance and be sure to get 1 cycle of a td on each of them. Then just wait a bit. Since the minmatar were not together they will soon start arguing about who is stealing lp from whom. This will soon turn to combat and maybe even wardecs.
Wow, you even pvp like a farmer. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
167
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 09:45:00 -
[337] - Quote
cearain wrote: . Then just wait a bit. Since the minmatar were not together they will soon start arguing about who is stealing lp from whom. This will soon turn to combat and maybe even wardecs.
tbh i expected a real answer not a troll this isnt what is like on the gal/cal war id suggest before u start making these posts for fw fixes you should experience being in the militia in both warzone the culture is so much different.
cearain wrote: Not sure what you mean. If I knew the enemy at least knew I was there, I would be more likely to stay and finish the plex. Therefore the pvpers would get more vp, and have a larger impact on the war then they currently do.
please dont play dumb your contradicting urself ur original statement says u kill a guy but noone else in system looked like they was coming in so ud move on for a fight.. but then you say ud stay if they knew you was there ud stay. ofc they know your there u just killed one of them and probably even GFd in local GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Andiedeath
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
159
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 09:49:00 -
[338] - Quote
If your after PVP just leave FW and stay in FW space... You will find PVP... |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 13:05:00 -
[339] - Quote
Juan Rayo wrote:Join FW. Log in. Roam OR: Ask in corp / militia / intel channels "Any caldari/gallente/minmatar/slaver plexing around?" Get responses, go pew or ignore, it-¦s up to you.
This is also known as "Notification system" .
Works great and it-¦s ALL the players. Want to know about enemy plexing in backwater systems? go there. Or convince more pilots/people to join and live on those systems. Also works. And again, it-¦s ALL about the players.
By "backwater systems" you mean 90% of the warzone right?
You will have trouble convincing others to care about 90% of the warzone because the game is very boring and needs improvement. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 13:22:00 -
[340] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: . Then just wait a bit. Since the minmatar were not together they will soon start arguing about who is stealing lp from whom. This will soon turn to combat and maybe even wardecs. tbh i expected a real answer not a troll this isnt what is like in the gal/cal war id suggest before u start making these posts for fw fixes you should experience being in the militia in both warzone the culture is so much different.
Every good story is 30% bs. The rest of what I wrote is valid.
Your scenario of haivng 4 different pvp pilots showing up to fight would be fantastic. Much better than sitting in a plex where noone comes to fight at all and only 2 or 3 enemies even know you're there.
cearain wrote: Not sure what you mean. If I knew the enemy at least knew I was there, I would be more likely to stay and finish the plex. Therefore the pvpers would get more vp, and have a larger impact on the war then they currently do.
please dont play dumb your contradicting urself ur original statement says u kill a guy but noone else in system looked like they was coming in so ud move on for a fight.. but then you say ud stay if they knew you was there, ofc they know your there u just killed one of them and probably even GFd in local[/quote]
I doubt he woudl tell the entire miltiia i was there. Its unlikely he would tell anyone tbh.
there is no contradiction in saying that I would be more likely to stay and finish a plex if I at least knew other enemy pvpers knew I was there. There would be a much greater chance that I would find pvp by staying in the plex - therefore more incentive to stay. I really don't think you have thought this through from a pvpers perspective.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
838
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 13:28:00 -
[341] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Just a question. If you get tired of chasing rabbits and dplexing why don't you just move to a low sec system outside fw? That is what amarr did.
This is the very definition of a broken feature/mechanic.
If you are serious enough play FW, even to/from the point where you are trying to save a dieing side, you have to play from outside the FW systems. Surely this sounds as silly to everyone else?
Thats why i was against the lock outs from the start, just makes the snow ball of failure grow faster and gain more speed. It hurts the bored "winning" side, as much as the "losing" but trying very hard side.
"Losing the sov war? well now its even harder to fight back!" \o/ http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 13:36:00 -
[342] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:If all 4 warp in and stay together I would keep my distance and be sure to get 1 cycle of a td on each of them. Then just wait a bit. Since the minmatar were not together they will soon start arguing about who is stealing lp from whom. This will soon turn to combat and maybe even wardecs. Wow, you even pvp like a farmer.
You and alu should lighten up. This is faction war.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
564
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 13:38:00 -
[343] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Cearain wrote: Just a question. If you get tired of chasing rabbits and dplexing why don't you just move to a low sec system outside fw? That is what amarr did.
This is the very definition of a broken feature/mechanic. To play FW to the point where you are trying to save a dieing side, you have to play from outside the FW systems. Surely this sounds as silly to everyone else? Thats why i was against the lock outs from the start, just makes the snow ball of failure grow faster and gain more speed. "Losing the sov war? well now its even harder to fight back!" \o/
Unfortunately, camping a station undock is probably not a great stratrgy in any fw mechanic. Feel free to keep pointing fingers though. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
838
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 13:41:00 -
[344] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote: Unfortunately, camping a station undock is probably not a great stratrgy in any fw mechanic. Feel free to keep pointing fingers though.
wasn't pointing fingers and said nothing about station camping... http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 13:44:00 -
[345] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:Cearain wrote: Just a question. If you get tired of chasing rabbits and dplexing why don't you just move to a low sec system outside fw? That is what amarr did.
This is the very definition of a broken feature/mechanic. To play FW to the point where you are trying to save a dieing side, you have to play from outside the FW systems. Surely this sounds as silly to everyone else? Thats why i was against the lock outs from the start, just makes the snow ball of failure grow faster and gain more speed. "Losing the sov war? well now its even harder to fight back!" \o/ Unfortunately, camping a station undock is probably not a great stratrgy in any fw mechanic. Feel free to keep pointing fingers though.
As if that was ever a big problem for anyone with half a brain. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
565
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 15:52:00 -
[346] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:Cearain wrote: Just a question. If you get tired of chasing rabbits and dplexing why don't you just move to a low sec system outside fw? That is what amarr did.
This is the very definition of a broken feature/mechanic. To play FW to the point where you are trying to save a dieing side, you have to play from outside the FW systems. Surely this sounds as silly to everyone else? Thats why i was against the lock outs from the start, just makes the snow ball of failure grow faster and gain more speed. "Losing the sov war? well now its even harder to fight back!" \o/ Unfortunately, camping a station undock is probably not a great stratrgy in any fw mechanic. Feel free to keep pointing fingers though. As if that was ever a big problem for anyone with half a brain.
Thats not the point. The point im making is that no mechanic is effective if people dont participate. Maud spent the months leading up to losing his system camping a station.
I think, short of a few tweaks to make farming less effective when there is opposition, the current system is the lesser of many evils and offers many merits too. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
842
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 16:14:00 -
[347] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote: Thats not the point. The point im making is that no mechanic is effective if people dont participate. Maud spent the months leading up to losing his system camping a station. In the same respect, no pvp'er is going to chase a farmer around just because of a notification.
actually i didnt in the run up to inferno. The very small number of amarr fw players at the time, after the inferno announcement spent the last weeks plexing and flipping systems back and forth.
Since minnies already had a majority of systems when the inferno changes were announced many left amarr (due to assets and logistics) making the situation worse and many more randoms joined the strongest sides. If we didnt like being the underdog a bit and had standing issues we may have done the same too which would have ruined FW faster (perhaps we should have done this to prove the point).
I remember auga being flipped many many times. back then, 4 hours to flip then the other side wait till DT before they have a chance to flip it back.
I sure did camp the crap out of stations in dal and auga before because thats how you REALLY took control of a system, actually be there and be the dominant force. Then inferno hit and its all PVE alts doing all the 'work' while any attempt to hold a presence in any system is instantly made a billion times harder because you cant dock in it, or near it. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Cosmic signature detected. . . . |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 16:21:00 -
[348] - Quote
Now we have lots more militia gate camps and not as many station camps. Personally I prefer the station camps. At least you can do things like make insta undocks and/or keep some assets in a different station.
The instalock gate camps with the proliferation of ogb have made it so no casual player in low sec wants to risk anything larger than a dessie. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1252
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:18:00 -
[349] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Now we have lots more militia gate camps and not as many station camps. Personally I prefer the station camps. At least you can do things like make insta undocks and/or keep some assets in a different station.
The instalock gate camps with the proliferation of ogb have made it so no casual player in low sec wants to risk anything larger than a dessie. Gatecamps are part of low sec. If there are more gate camps it's because there are more people in low sec. Also, instalocking gatecamps pwn dessies.
What doesn't make sense is for the enemy to be able to dock up in a system that they have lost.
Roundabout arguments aside, station lockouts are here to stay.
|
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:28:00 -
[350] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Now we have lots more militia gate camps and not as many station camps. Personally I prefer the station camps. At least you can do things like make insta undocks and/or keep some assets in a different station.
The instalock gate camps with the proliferation of ogb have made it so no casual player in low sec wants to risk anything larger than a dessie. Gatecamps are part of low sec. If there are more gate camps it's because there are more people in low sec. Also, instalocking gatecamps pwn dessies.
Gate camps and station camps are part of low sec. So what? That doesn't mean they are good. Gate camps pwn everything. Thats why so few pilots fly anything more expensive than a dessie.
X Gallentius wrote: What doesn't make sense is for the enemy to be able to dock up in a system that they have lost.
Roundabout arguments aside, station lockouts are here to stay.
What doesn't make sense is that a 24th Imperial Crusade station won't let its own members dock.
Lock outs may be here to stay, they might not. They are still horrible. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1252
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 17:31:00 -
[351] - Quote
Cearain wrote:What doesn't make sense is that a 24th Imperial Crusade station won't let its own members dock. I'm surprised the Minmatar haven't alreaday spray painted "Former" in front of the sign at the entrance of the station. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
862
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:01:00 -
[352] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:
I sure did camp the crap out of stations in dal and auga before because thats how you REALLY took control of a system, actually be there and be the dominant force. Then inferno hit and its all PVE alts doing all the 'work' while any attempt to hold a presence in any system is instantly made a billion times harder because you cant dock in it, or near it.
Oh you mean the players actually prevented the enemy from using a station instead of having ccp do it for them?
It seems a few gallente are for requiring players to do all the boring work trying to track down rabbit plexers, but they want ccp to prevent enemy pvpers from living in the same system with them.
Thats really where the divide is. Some people want mechanics that help pvpers and hurt the pve plexers. Others want the opposite. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1252
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:12:00 -
[353] - Quote
There's nothing stopping anybody from camping stations in FW systems. Put up the POS. Move your ships in. Have at it.
Oh wait, you meant "play station docking games". Yeah, can't do that any more. Sorry. |
Major Killz
182
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:55:00 -
[354] - Quote
Tried to join monkeys (gall mil alliance) with my 1 man corp and they rejected my app. I wanted to shoot from the other side for bit out of boredom. Sucks that CCP doesnt make that easier to do.
The whole faction standing mechanic thing is annoying. CCP should get rid of that. Now im forced to join amarr or caldari mil again because im to lazy to even ask to join someone else again. I DEMAND CUSTORMER SERVICE CCP!
- killz |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
459
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 20:01:00 -
[355] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Tried to join monkeys (gall mil alliance) with my 1 man corp and they rejected my app. I wanted to shoot from the other side for bit out of boredom. Sucks that CCP doesnt make that easier to do.
The whole faction standing mechanic thing is annoying. CCP should get rid of that. Now im forced to join amarr or caldari mil again because im to lazy to even ask to join someone else again. I DEMAND CUSTORMER SERVICE CCP!
- killz
Your one map corp won't have the standings required to be in the gal mil - therefore if they accepted you the entire alliance would be kicked out of the gallente militia.
Average standings only apply to corp, not alliances. |
Major Killz
185
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 20:51:00 -
[356] - Quote
chatgris wrote:Major Killz wrote:Tried to join monkeys (gall mil alliance) with my 1 man corp and they rejected my app. I wanted to shoot from the other side for bit out of boredom. Sucks that CCP doesnt make that easier to do.
The whole faction standing mechanic thing is annoying. CCP should get rid of that. Now im forced to join amarr or caldari mil again because im to lazy to even ask to join someone else again. I DEMAND CUSTORMER SERVICE CCP!
- killz Your one map corp won't have the standings required to be in the gal mil - therefore if they accepted you the entire alliance would be kicked out of the gallente militia. Average standings only apply to corp, not alliances.
Interesting. I would ask about the whole averaging thing and how one person and a neutral character could hurt the overall average but I have no idea how it works and I dont really care. If it is like that then CCP needs to change that sh!t.
- killz |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1253
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 21:01:00 -
[357] - Quote
"Summary of Entire Thread" by Juan Rayo: Link |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
863
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 22:45:00 -
[358] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:"Summary of Entire Thread" by Juan Rayo: Link
Yeah right, the intel channels are working great. We all agree that sov in over 90% of systems is decided by rabbits. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1256
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 23:34:00 -
[359] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:"Summary of Entire Thread" by Juan Rayo: Link Yeah right, the intel channels are working great. We all agree that sov in over 90% of systems is decided by rabbits. We need to convince the FW generals to implement a "clear and hold" strategy. This "clear and bail" strategy clearly isn't working. We must learn to constantly patrol these lightly populated areas and get to know the locals. Only then will be we able to wipe out these terrorist cells! |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
565
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 23:54:00 -
[360] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:"Summary of Entire Thread" by Juan Rayo: Link Yeah right, the intel channels are working great. We all agree that sov in over 90% of systems is decided by rabbits.
We all agree that no one cares about those 90% of systems. Working as intended. |
|
Lin Suizei
131
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 01:22:00 -
[361] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:We all agree that four or five extremely vocal forum warriors don't care about those 90% of systems. Working as intended.
FTFY.
Not that it matters, not like it's getting fixed. Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1256
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 01:29:00 -
[362] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:We all agree that four or five extremely vocal forum warriors don't care about those 90% of systems. Working as intended. If only the other 15,000 players in factional warfare stopped caring so much about those backwater systems... It's like there's 250 people logged into each militia at all times of the day, and they are all spread out over each system fighting non-stop. It's so much fun to run the plexes in these backwater systems that "Gallente Militia Plexing Command" channel is bursting with players. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
863
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 01:40:00 -
[363] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:"Summary of Entire Thread" by Juan Rayo: Link Yeah right, the intel channels are working great. We all agree that sov in over 90% of systems is decided by rabbits. We all agree that no one cares about those 90% of systems. Working as intended.
We all agree no one cares about those systems. the difference is Why we think people don't care. I think most people dont' care because the sov warfare game is a horrible carebear race. No one cares about winning horrible games. So no one cares.
You and a few others think the game is just about perfect and its working as intended that sov in 90% of the war zone is determined by rabbits.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
863
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 01:52:00 -
[364] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:We all agree that four or five extremely vocal forum warriors don't care about those 90% of systems. Working as intended. If only the other 15,000 players in factional warfare stopped caring so much about those backwater systems... It's like there's 250 people logged into each militia at all times of the day, and they are all spread out over each system fighting non-stop. It's so much fun to run the plexes in these 90% of systems that "Gallente Militia Plexing Command" channel is bursting with players. What are these people thinking??!!! They should listen to these four forum warriors who are completely out of touch with FW reality.
Yay! The pvp in fw is mainly players who never leave their blobs and boosters in their base systems! How dare anyone expect more pvp opportunities than that?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1256
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 02:18:00 -
[365] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Yay! The pvp in fw is mainly players who never leave their blobs and boosters in their base systems! How dare anyone expect more pvp opportunities than that?
The notification system will solve this! |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
318
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 02:57:00 -
[366] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Andre Vauban wrote:Cearain wrote:I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. We already kind of do this. Every night when QCATS runs our not-a-fleet fleet, we have an alt (or QCATS toon) in every single system within 2-4 jumps from Nisuwa. The problem with your statement is there is no motivation for chasing the rabbits. There is no killmail to be had, it is not fun, there is no financial reward, and it doesn't help the sov war in any way shape or form as you must spend more time than the farmer to undo the damage (ie the farmer wins because they waste more man-hours of the enemies time). This pretty much nails the "objection" to the notification system. To us, it seems like it will miss on achieving it's stated purpose of "turning backwater system plex warfare into a pvp mechanic." Another option to "make people care about the entire theater" is to remove several constellations from FW that nobody cares about. Gallente/Caldari FWView as ConstellationsThe first six constellations in the following list could easily be removed from the map and nobody would notice, tbh. 1. Fislepsisnes 2. Otasawa 3. Ieyama 4. Serthoulde 5. Obrey 6. Urpiken 7. Kurala (I think one Caldari corporation likes Okkamon) 8. Woencke (a Caldari corporation actually lives in Loes right now, so this is where the list ends)
^^
The real issue is that the warzone is far too big.
But if they made so small that only pvpers effected sov - FW would be destroyed by large alliance coming to the 'pvp arena systems' which is what fw space would become.
I wouldn't mind the Cal/Gal wz being shrunk to the same amount of systems as the Amarr/Minnie warzone. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
215
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 03:12:00 -
[367] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Andre Vauban wrote:Cearain wrote:I would be most interested in plexes that are being run within 3 jumps of me. We already kind of do this. Every night when QCATS runs our not-a-fleet fleet, we have an alt (or QCATS toon) in every single system within 2-4 jumps from Nisuwa. The problem with your statement is there is no motivation for chasing the rabbits. There is no killmail to be had, it is not fun, there is no financial reward, and it doesn't help the sov war in any way shape or form as you must spend more time than the farmer to undo the damage (ie the farmer wins because they waste more man-hours of the enemies time). This pretty much nails the "objection" to the notification system. To us, it seems like it will miss on achieving it's stated purpose of "turning backwater system plex warfare into a pvp mechanic." Another option to "make people care about the entire theater" is to remove several constellations from FW that nobody cares about. Gallente/Caldari FWView as ConstellationsThe first six constellations in the following list could easily be removed from the map and nobody would notice, tbh. 1. Fislepsisnes 2. Otasawa 3. Ieyama 4. Serthoulde 5. Obrey 6. Urpiken 7. Kurala (I think one Caldari corporation likes Okkamon) 8. Woencke (a Caldari corporation actually lives in Loes right now, so this is where the list ends) ^^ The real issue is that the warzone is far too big. But if they made so small that only pvpers effected sov - FW would be destroyed by large alliance coming to the 'pvp arena systems' which is what fw space would become. I wouldn't mind the Cal/Gal wz being shrunk to the same amount of systems as the Amarr/Minnie warzone.
I third this suggestion. It i a real pain to have to jump my booster alt across the entire war zone just so I can finish a novice.
In all seriousness, I do agree the WZ needs to be shrunk a tad
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
490
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 04:18:00 -
[368] - Quote
Warzone does not need to be shrunken at all. Warzone just needs more brave newbies who want to claim ownership of their own system.
You need organizations on both sides who have the balls to live in their own system without piggy backing off the work of others. As it stands now, all Caldari lowsec corps move into Enaluri. And I believe Ronin live in OMS? Gallente do a little better by occupying Nisuwa, Essesier, Vlillirier, Eugales, and Nenn.
Whatever happened to the pride of system ownership and carving out your own identity for your corp?
I remember my first FW corp that I joined - Screaming War Eagles. A corp full of newbs and eager PVPers. We initially lived in Heyd but it was too quiet and we wanted more action. We realized alot of the stronger corps lived in Nenn. However, my CEO and I didn't want to piggy back off the work of the established organizations like GMVA and QCATS. We wanted our own identity.
So I did some extra researching and learned about a system that was a couple jumps away, was still close to the warzone, and had the right amenities for us to call home. We were the only militia corp to settle down in that system. Two jumps away was an established Caldari militia alliance who gave us plenty of fights and had more experienced fighters than my small corp of 20 did. And in our home system, was a small nuisance of a pirate alliance, Exodus, who pestered us every night in the plexes causing a triple threat match between them, us, and Caldari State Capturing. I still recall some crazy battle royals that all three corps had.
We took our beatings, learned from it and almost lost our system to the enemy on one occasion. Though, this was just before Inferno hit so station lockout was not a reality. However, we had too much pride and didn't want to lose the system even if there were no real consequences.
Months passed, our pilots became better, our corp developed a name for itself, and a local market started to develop because of my seeding the system with mods and ammo. My initial FW corp eventually became inactive and we all moved on.
And while that corp is no longer around, the remnants of what we built in those early days are still here today but stronger. The system has most ammo, ships, and mods stocked in multiple stations. It is the crossroads for all lowsec traffic coming from Blackrise, Nullsec Syndicate, and Placid. Solo pvpers and gangs would stop by and loiter hoping to get a fight out of the current residents of this system. Several Gallente militia corps base out of this system now. Because the system sees alot of traffic, it has become a key factor in intelligence as well.
That system is called Vlillirier. And it was built because some newbie corp wanted to carve out its own identity rather than piggyback off of someone elses. No need to shrink the warzone. Just expand your vision.
Deen Wispa, Architect of Modern day Vlillirier. High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve . |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
863
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 04:19:00 -
[369] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: Yay! The pvp in fw is mainly players who never leave their blobs and boosters in their base systems! How dare anyone expect more pvp opportunities than that?
The notification system will solve this!
Yes that is the point. Pvpers will know exactly where they need to go so they can fight for plexes.
No the war zone doesn't need to be shrunk to match the blobs current stomping grounds. CCP needs to supply tools, so players can branch out and have a chance against the rabbit swarm. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
863
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 04:27:00 -
[370] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:We took our beatings, learned from it and almost lost our system to the enemy on one occasion. Though, this was just before Inferno hit so station lockout was not a reality. However, we had too much pride and didn't want to lose the system even if there were no real consequences.,.
This!
If fw sov were something to be proud of then people would fight for it. Tiers, lockouts, idustrial slots etc does not make winning the sov war something to be proud of. It's only if you think the game is worth playing that people care about winning it. Otherwise it is all farming.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1257
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 04:29:00 -
[371] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Yes that is the point. Pvpers will know exactly where they need to go so they can fight for plexes. They're already out there! It's only those four "crazy" posters who say people don't care about backwater systems. Everybody else CARES. And since they CARE, they are out there every day fighting for those systems that they CARE about!
Really! ..... Honest! No, really!
|
Colt Blackhawk
Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
106
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 05:03:00 -
[372] - Quote
+1 for warzone shrinking. Main problem is: CCP really (NO JOKE!!!) thinks it is all okay with fw. So how to proceed?
Proposal: Every fw CEO gets his people to bomb CCP with "shrink the wz" petitions down?! |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
318
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 05:45:00 -
[373] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Warzone does not need to be shrunken at all. Warzone just needs more brave newbies who want to claim ownership of their own system.
You need organizations on both sides who have the balls to live in their own system without piggy backing off the work of others. As it stands now, all Caldari lowsec corps move into Enaluri. And I believe Ronin live in OMS? Gallente do a little better by occupying Nisuwa, Essesier, Vlillirier, Eugales, and Nenn.
Whatever happened to the pride of system ownership and carving out your own identity for your corp?
I remember my first FW corp that I joined - Screaming War Eagles. A corp full of newbs and eager PVPers. We initially lived in Heyd but it was too quiet and we wanted more action. We realized alot of the stronger corps lived in Nenn. However, my CEO and I didn't want to piggy back off the work of the established organizations like GMVA and QCATS. We wanted our own identity.
So I did some extra researching and learned about a system that was a couple jumps away, was still close to the warzone, and had the right amenities for us to call home. We were the only militia corp to settle down in that system. Two jumps away was an established Caldari militia alliance who gave us plenty of fights and had more experienced fighters than my small corp of 20 did. And in our home system, was a small nuisance of a pirate alliance, Exodus, who pestered us every night in the plexes causing a triple threat match between them, us, and Caldari State Capturing. I still recall some crazy battle royals that all three corps had.
We took our beatings, learned from it and almost lost our system to the enemy on one occasion. Though, this was just before Inferno hit so station lockout was not a reality. However, we had too much pride and didn't want to lose the system even if there were no real consequences.
Months passed, our pilots became better, our corp developed a name for itself, and a local market started to develop because of my seeding the system with mods and ammo. My initial FW corp eventually became inactive and we all moved on.
And while that corp is no longer around, the remnants of what we built in those early days are still here today but stronger. The system has most ammo, ships, and mods stocked in multiple stations. It is the crossroads for all lowsec traffic coming from Blackrise, Nullsec Syndicate, and Placid. Solo pvpers and gangs would stop by and loiter hoping to get a fight out of the current residents of this system. Several Gallente militia corps base out of this system now. Because the system sees alot of traffic, it has become a key factor in intelligence as well.
That system is called Vlillirier. And it was built because some newbie corp wanted to carve out its own identity rather than piggyback off of someone elses. No need to shrink the warzone. Just expand your vision.
Deen Wispa, Architect of Modern day Vlillirier.
Having a corp per system works well until the Farmers strike in force.
We did it successfully for ages but it got to the point where we spent every minute we were logged in doing dplexes. After 2 weeks of solid dplexing and only ONE wt entering system while I was there (They just waited till we were asleep/working and farmed - we log on - they'd go)
So while I agree with you - We still needed to have some fun playing and not grind dplexes all day.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
318
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 05:59:00 -
[374] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:We took our beatings, learned from it and almost lost our system to the enemy on one occasion. Though, this was just before Inferno hit so station lockout was not a reality. However, we had too much pride and didn't want to lose the system even if there were no real consequences.,. This! If fw sov were something to be proud of then people would fight for it. Tiers, lockouts, idustrial slots etc does not make winning the sov war something to be proud of. It's only if you think the game is worth playing that people care about winning it. Otherwise it is all farming.
Cearain - you should join FW - find a base and practice what you preach. After spending every online minute undoing the farmers work you might see why it's a waste of time (unless you like dplexing).
I've been there and done it for long enough to know it's not a fun way to play eve. It is ok while the farm isn't your backyard - but eventually the farmers work out when you are not online and strike.
Why do you think I gave up Hykanima and moved the entire Alliance to Enaluri?
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
865
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:37:00 -
[375] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Yes that is the point. Pvpers will know exactly where they need to go so they can fight for plexes. They're already out there! It's only those four "crazy" posters who say people don't care about backwater systems. Everybody else CARES. And since they CARE, they are out there every day fighting for those systems that they CARE about! Really! ..... Honest! No, really!
Please try to keep your story straight. Either you care about the 90% of systems (you refer to as "backwater") or you don't.
I like how you keep trying present those who want to be able to actually defend their plexes as some vocal minority.
I posted links to 25 people who upvoted the proposal. Maybe not a huge amount but actually larger than any specific assembly hall idea dealing with fw that you could find. Are you still looking for those links??
Hans, the last csm member to actually run a platform that really dealt with fw supported it.
And even ccp, the actual developers of this game, indicated they liked the idea.
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/107405-1/page/6#178
"Q: LET'S GET BETTER NOTIFICATION/INTEL TOOLS WITH SYSTEM UPGRADES MR. HOLMES! A: Interesting argument Dr. Watson. More water Sir? We definitely agree having better notification tools should be part of the whole package, but it should maybe be independent of Factional Warfare and something you need in all cases. After all, Starbase, corporation, war declaration notifications also need love too, let's not be selfish here. Such revamp is in the pipeline, even not for immediate release. Better intel tools for system upgrades however is definitely something we are thinking about." CCP Ytterbium
So we can either believe your claims about how much support the idea has or our own eyes. You constantly fill these forums with your claims and never provide support for them.
After CCP posted the above, I expressed that I thought it was too bad, that they were leaving this out and as a result the fw sov system would continue to be a pve system. Was I right?
1) Look at the top plexer based on vp per day. Then look at those pilots killboards for the day. I posted this before and it showed 95% pve ships flown with no kills.
2) we all agree that sov in over 90% of systems is determined by rabbits.
Those 2 things are facts.
But you and a handfull of others (mostly gallente) don't mind. You think that the rabbits add "content" and think the system near "perfect."
You guys are so concerned with protecting the plex rabbits you are contradicting yourself and eachother as to why letting the pvpers know where people are plexing would be bad.
1) First - no one cares about the 90% of systems. Now - we all already care.
2) First - no one will respond to the notifications. Then - too many people will respond. Then - first too many than nobody then too many again will respond.
3) First - it won't make finding pvp easier. Then - it will make finding pvp too easy people who want it are just lazy.
Seriously, people can draw their own conclusions about your arguments xg. I numbered some of the contractions. Why don't you tell me which side you are taking on each of these contradictory statements?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
865
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:48:00 -
[376] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Cearain wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:We took our beatings, learned from it and almost lost our system to the enemy on one occasion. Though, this was just before Inferno hit so station lockout was not a reality. However, we had too much pride and didn't want to lose the system even if there were no real consequences.,. This! If fw sov were something to be proud of then people would fight for it. Tiers, lockouts, idustrial slots etc does not make winning the sov war something to be proud of. It's only if you think the game is worth playing that people care about winning it. Otherwise it is all farming. Cearain - you should join FW - find a base and practice what you preach. After spending every online minute undoing the farmers work you might see why it's a waste of time (unless you like dplexing). I've been there and done it for long enough to know it's not a fun way to play eve. It is ok while the farm isn't your backyard - but eventually the farmers work out when you are not online and strike. Why do you think I gave up Hykanima and moved the entire Alliance to Enaluri?
I do practice what I preach.
I preach that under the current mechanics the sov war is an extremely boring pve mechanic. And that we do not have the tools to adequately deal with the rabbits. So I, and the vast majority of fw players, don't care about sov in over 90% of the systems. I preach that people should only have alts in fw and if they want pvp to stay outside of it. So thats what I do. (But I was in fw for a few years and was in it under the current mechanics so I know what its like to be in fw)
I preach that I like the quality pvp that plexes provide and just wish it was a bit more frequent. So 99% of my pvp is in and around plexes. I left the militias so that I am not blue to 40% of the people in plexes.
I preach that I am not a fan of the sort of blob warfare or having my ship blown up by a boosted condor that can point me past 30k. So I tend to pvp outside of the "home systems."
We actually both agree that the sov war under these mechanics is a horriblly boring game not worth caring about. I think it can be fixed.
I would bet that if ccp implemented a decent notification system and timer rollbacks that after about 6 months the typical top daily vp gainers would have several kills for the day. It would be a much more pvp centered game than we have now. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
865
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:52:00 -
[377] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:+1 for warzone shrinking. Main problem is: CCP really (NO JOKE!!!) thinks it is all okay with fw. So how to proceed?
Proposal: Every fw CEO gets his people to bomb CCP with "shrink the wz" petitions down?!
All the blobs and boosted elite pvpers are in the same 5 systems. If that is all you want, then just fight there and ignore the rest of the war zone.
Why delete the rest of the space for those of us who like solo and small gang pvp? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Seraph Castillon
Justified Chaos
46
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:01:00 -
[378] - Quote
I'm still not going to do 6 jumps to chase a stabbed plexer out of his plex in backwater placid, even if I get a nice mail telling me exactly where he is and even if his timer resets when I chase him out.
If you want people to defend systems that aren't their home system or directly linked to the safety of their home system there will need to be incentive to holding sovereignty AND to not all be in the same system. We can hope to get something when they overhaul nullsec, but likely we won't for years to come. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
865
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:06:00 -
[379] - Quote
Seraph Castillon wrote:I'm still not going to do 6 jumps to chase a stabbed plexer out of his plex in backwater placid, even if I get a nice mail telling me exactly where he is and even if his timer resets when I chase him out....
No one is suggesting you would. You will be plenty busy with pvp within 3 jumps of where ever you are. And you won't need to limit your pvp to blob and booster "home" systems.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1258
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:12:00 -
[380] - Quote
Seraph Castillon wrote:I'm still not going to do 6 jumps to chase a stabbed plexer out of his plex in backwater placid, even if I get a nice mail telling me exactly where he is and even if his timer resets when I chase him out.
But if there is a notification system, then it's a pvp mechanic. Therefore, you will sit in the plex after you chase the rabbit out. Really. You will. And there will be many more players just like you who will do it as well. Trust me on this. |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
865
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:21:00 -
[381] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Seraph Castillon wrote:I'm still not going to do 6 jumps to chase a stabbed plexer out of his plex in backwater placid, even if I get a nice mail telling me exactly where he is and even if his timer resets when I chase him out.
But if there is a notification system, then it's a pvp mechanic. Therefore, you will sit in the plex after you chase the rabbit out. Really. You will. And there will be many more players just like you who will do it as well. Trust me on this.
Since entire enemy militia will know where I am, and knowing where I am, is the first requirment of my getting pvp I will, of course, be more likely to stay in the plex.
When I was in fw I might stay if there was under 4 minutes left and 5 or more wts in local. With the notifications I might stay if there is 6 minutes left and 3 or more wts in local.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1258
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:32:00 -
[382] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Since entire enemy militia will know where I am, and knowing where I am, is the first requirment of my getting pvp I will, of course, be more likely to stay in the plex.
When I was in fw I might stay if there was under 4 minutes left and 5 or more wts in local. With the notifications I might stay if there is 6 minutes left and 3 or more wts in local.
That's a really good point, tbh. But why bother chasing the rabbit in the first place? Just open a plex anywhere, and have at it.
BTW, you're not really fighting the occupancy war are you? You're just using the plex for fights. And, you aren't really interested in chasing the rabbits out at all. It's kind of a strawman argument, isn't it?
|
Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
18
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:41:00 -
[383] - Quote
I like how one sided things are in favor of the minmatar. Farm moar LP! |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
865
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 15:47:00 -
[384] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:Since entire enemy militia will know where I am, and knowing where I am, is the first requirment of my getting pvp I will, of course, be more likely to stay in the plex.
When I was in fw I might stay if there was under 4 minutes left and 5 or more wts in local. With the notifications I might stay if there is 6 minutes left and 3 or more wts in local.
That's a really good point, tbh. But why bother chasing the rabbit in the first place? Just open a plex anywhere, and have at it. BTW, you're not really fighting the occupancy war are you? You're just using the plex for fights. And, you aren't really interested in chasing the rabbits out at all. It's kind of a strawman argument, isn't it?
I could just open a plex and wait. That would be an option. But I think if they had a timer rollback and notifications my time would be more efficiently spent by attacking enemy plexer (assuming he was only 1-3 jumps away) killing him or forcing him out and then running a different plex next to it. That way I essentially have 2 timers running for my militia (his timer would be counting back down to neutral and my plex would be counting toward capture)
It's hard to say for sure, but it might be that by killing several people I could essentially have even 4 timers running for my militia in addition to a new plex I would could start. I really don't know what the most efficient approach will be without knowing the specific mechanics and actually testing them out.
It may depend on the design of the notifications and the timer rollback. If the notifications told us how much time was on the enemy plex then it would make the most sense to try to go for plexes that the enemy had plexed up more time with. That way it will run down automatically for a longer period of time while you are doing something else such as running a new plex. If the timer rollbacks only rolled back if an enemy or neutral was on grid or on grid with the accell gate of your plex it may be more beneficial to leave the plex and go fight someone nearby.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
167
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 22:58:00 -
[385] - Quote
cearain wrote: If this was implemented the militias that wanted to win would have seperate coms for different sections of the war zone.
Really cearain ur only looking from whatever side you was on and the mustve been poor, most militias do this already and we have good intel channels too. When i was a minmatar they also did this and had gd intel channels. This is the reason most of us are against the notification idea we see it as "NOT NEEDED".
You should try other militias and see the different cultures and way of doing things it may open your eyes a little GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
866
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 00:47:00 -
[386] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: If this was implemented the militias that wanted to win would have seperate coms for different sections of the war zone. Really cearain ur only looking from whatever side you was on and the mustve been poor, most militias do this already and we have good intel channels too. When i was a minmatar they also did this and had gd intel channels. This is the reason most of us are against the notification idea we see it as "NOT NEEDED". You should try other militias and see the different cultures and way of doing things it may open your eyes a little
If you don't mind that sov in 90% of systems is determined by rabbits and like the "content" rabbits add, then I guess you would think the player intel channels are sufficient.
However plenty of people think fw sov is still broken and therefore don't even bother with it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
167
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:06:00 -
[387] - Quote
No our intel channels tell us were actual pvp is not rabbit hunting GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
866
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:01:00 -
[388] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:No our intel channels tell us were actual pvp is not rabbit hunting
Whatever.
Like I said, if you are happy with 90% of systems having sov determined by rabbits, like the content rabbits bring to the game, and are happy that the most effective way to plex is to get a pve ship and avoid all pvp, then your intel channels seem to be doing great. Because these are the actual facts of the current situation.
If ccp wants to just continue to make fw sov yet another pve mechanic for alts, and don't care that they offer no contextual background for small scale pvpers then they will stick with the current iteration of fw. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:33:00 -
[389] - Quote
Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:No our intel channels tell us were actual pvp is not rabbit hunting Whatever. Like I said, if you are happy with 90% of systems having sov determined by rabbits, like the content rabbits bring to the game, and are happy that the most effective way to plex is to get a pve ship and avoid all pvp, then your intel channels seem to be doing great. Because these are the actual facts of the current situation. If ccp wants to just continue to make fw sov yet another pve mechanic for alts, and don't care that they offer no contextual background for small scale pvpers, then they will stick with the current iteration of fw.
Whatever.
The tools are already in the game both the map and player made intel channels 90% of PvP players use them (see i can pull numbers out my arse too!). You do not have any facts just your laughable opinions. There is more pvp in the warzone now then ever before. These are the actual facts of the current situation.
From looking at the live stream CCP are sticking with the current iteration of facwar.
Roll backs.. agreed.
/end thread. |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
251
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:39:00 -
[390] - Quote
btw - the notification system that's been thrown around is a bit overdone in terms of scope/reach imo.
as we all know, there's a notification system already in place in the FW window which tells you if a system is stable, contested or even vulnerable.
i think in the ideal world we take it just one step further by using the same FW map interface thingy, to let FW players know if someone is actually plexing in a given system. nothing more. not the actual plex, not the player name, not the ship type.
just let them know if system x has an enemy(s) in one of it's plexes - a simple distress signal. the rest is up to the players to figure out and decide what to do.
also, if there's a notification sytem in place, i think the plex timers should be shortened a tbd amount to compensate for the increase in informational efficiency.
rollbacks agreed. |
|
Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:45:00 -
[391] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:btw - the notification system that's been thrown around is a bit overdone in terms of scope/reach imo.
as we all know, there's a notification system already in place in the FW window which tells you if a system is stable, contested or even vulnerable.
i think in the ideal world we take it just one step further by using the same FW map interface thingy, to let FW players know if someone is actually plexing in a given system. nothing more. not the actual plex, not the player name, not the ship type.
just let them know if system x has an enemy(s) in one of it's plexes - a simple distress signal. the rest is up to the players to figure out and decide what to do.
also, if there's a notification sytem in place, i think the plex timers should be shortened a tbd amount to compensate for the increase in informational efficiency.
rollbacks agreed.
Why not simply send someone to scout it? |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
866
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:53:00 -
[392] - Quote
Whisperen wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:No our intel channels tell us were actual pvp is not rabbit hunting Whatever. Like I said, if you are happy with 90% of systems having sov determined by rabbits, like the content rabbits bring to the game, and are happy that the most effective way to plex is to get a pve ship and avoid all pvp, then your intel channels seem to be doing great. Because these are the actual facts of the current situation. If ccp wants to just continue to make fw sov yet another pve mechanic for alts, and don't care that they offer no contextual background for small scale pvpers, then they will stick with the current iteration of fw. Whatever. The tools are already in the game both the map and player made intel channels 90% of PvP players use them (see i can pull numbers out my arse too!).
The ninety percent number was based on several peoples conclusions that they only care about their home base system and so they don't mind that the rest of the "back water" systems have their sov determined by rabbits. When we add up the home base fw sytems that people care about we get fewer than 17. There are 170 systems. So either you can list more than 17 homebase fw systems that people really care about, or you are arguing against arithmetic.
And I may agree that 90% of pvpers use the channels. That actually supports my view that we need more tools. Because despite player channesl we still have the game I descirbed above. Why don't you look at the top 5 vp gainers for the day and tell us how many kills they got that day? You know, get some actual data.
Whisperen wrote: You do not have any facts just your laughable opinions. There is more pvp in the warzone now then ever before. These are the actual facts of the current situation.
From looking at the live stream CCP are sticking with the current iteration of facwar.
Roll backs.. agreed.
/end thread.
More pvp in general in the fw low sec space does not mean the actual fw sov mechanic isn't a broken carebear race. A larger and large number of people who actually fight in plexes are not even in fw. Its the new top belt. Most pvpers don't care about sov because it is most efficiently done in pve fits by avoiding pvp.
I didn't see the live stream. Is ccp going to do the rolbacks? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
866
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 14:55:00 -
[393] - Quote
Whisperen wrote:2manno Asp wrote:btw - the notification system that's been thrown around is a bit overdone in terms of scope/reach imo.
as we all know, there's a notification system already in place in the FW window which tells you if a system is stable, contested or even vulnerable.
i think in the ideal world we take it just one step further by using the same FW map interface thingy, to let FW players know if someone is actually plexing in a given system. nothing more. not the actual plex, not the player name, not the ship type.
just let them know if system x has an enemy(s) in one of it's plexes - a simple distress signal. the rest is up to the players to figure out and decide what to do.
also, if there's a notification sytem in place, i think the plex timers should be shortened a tbd amount to compensate for the increase in informational efficiency.
rollbacks agreed. Why not simply send someone to scout it?
What do you mean by "it"? Why not have someone keep scouting the entire fw map? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
252
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:04:00 -
[394] - Quote
Whisperen wrote: Why not simply send someone to scout it?
Why not simply have a distress signal? |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1261
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:28:00 -
[395] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:just let them know if system x has an enemy(s) in one of it's plexes - a simple distress signal. the rest is up to the players to figure out and decide what to do. Fair enough. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
566
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 16:25:00 -
[396] - Quote
My point is, there are other suggestions here that tweak things to mitigate some of the effectiveness of farming. If you are looking for pvp and cant find any potentials after 4-5 jumps, chances are you are living in the wrong place. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
847
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 17:34:00 -
[397] - Quote
Instead of an instant per-plex notification.
What about a + or - on the system with a % value that its changed in the past hour?
Then its useful still but not directly aimed at getting all the plexers ganked by everyone the second they tick any timers! because the misuse of the notifications by bored pirates (or anyone) with alts/spys in FW, is a serious issue for the genuine continuity of FW.
FW already gets a good kick in the balls when it comes to lock outs, farming alts system flips by out side influences. While FW space in general low sec and alts are easy any extra information thats made available needs to be carefully thought out. We dont want another ccp knee jerk OTT change to shut 5 forum warriors up while ruining 10,000 fw players year. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Cosmic signature detected. . . . |
Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:21:00 -
[398] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Instead of an instant per-plex notification.
What about a + or - on the system with a % value that its changed in the past hour?
Then its useful still but not directly aimed at getting all the plexers ganked by everyone the second they tick any timers! because the misuse of the notifications by bored pirates (or anyone) with alts/spys in FW, is a serious issue for the genuine continuity of FW.
FW already gets a good kick in the balls when it comes to lock outs, farming alts system flips by out side influences. While FW space in general low sec and alts are easy any extra information thats made available needs to be carefully thought out. We dont want another ccp knee jerk OTT change to shut 5 forum warriors up while ruining 10,000 fw players year.
By "It" i mean the systems that are changing %captured status if you notice a lot of change send someone to scout.
I use the in game notepad look at the areas i am going to roam for the night record the %captured then check the map for pvp kills and number of jumps. Now as i move around and hit safes to scan a system i can check the current %captured compared to my log hey presto i know when and where plex's are being run. (Placing a bounty on all the known enemy FC's in your timezone is a handy way of knowing if they are out and about. When they die you get a notification).
And it dosnt make any difference at all that is in the plex is a stabbed cloaky merlin. Rollbacks may help here but if your prey is just going to run when you land on grid all your doing is decreasing the 'pain' of deplexing a useless system. (For which you are rewarded LP).
If Cearain wants to make the rest of the warzone matter to more then farmers then he needs to address the logistical challenges of living (huge numbers of militia live in non-facwar lowsec or hisec for the convenience of shopping, refitting, clones etc) or using (no resources other then plex's a few sigs and bad roids that nobody in their right mind would mine) and therefore caring about those systems. Ive yet to see a proposal that's not going to provoke howls of outrage that facwar will turn into more of a 0.0-lite structure grind. Hmm sounds familiar.
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
848
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:30:00 -
[399] - Quote
I wouldnt mind seeing ALL fw systems tick down by them selves to a nuetral state after a few days or so. Maybe make it drop 1% an hour (4 days ish to 0). Of course if something like this comes in flipping the bunker will need to change, like a bunker becomes vaun at a lower % level than a 100%. but at least the "who cares" systems will get more attention from farmers and pvpers when they drop to neut status - also enabling temporary station games. Then give neut systems 50% lp gain over an offensive system, to either side for control, then systems that matter will keep the FW presence in the area and isk potential more level.
- just a random idea not really thought out fully! http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Cosmic signature detected. . . . |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
868
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 14:47:00 -
[400] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Instead of an instant per-plex notification.
What about a + or - on the system with a % value that its changed in the past hour?
...
I don't think that would change anything.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
566
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 17:16:00 -
[401] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:Instead of an instant per-plex notification.
What about a + or - on the system with a % value that its changed in the past hour?
... I don't think that would change anything.
Though, it shouldnt stop him from repeating the same bad idea for the next year or two, right? |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
868
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 18:22:00 -
[402] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:Instead of an instant per-plex notification.
What about a + or - on the system with a % value that its changed in the past hour?
Then its useful still but not directly aimed at getting all the plexers ganked by everyone the second they tick any timers! because the misuse of the notifications by bored pirates (or anyone) with alts/spys in FW, is a serious issue for the genuine continuity of FW.
FW already gets a good kick in the balls when it comes to lock outs, farming alts system flips by out side influences. While FW space in general low sec and alts are easy any extra information thats made available needs to be carefully thought out. We dont want another ccp knee jerk OTT change to shut 5 forum warriors up while ruining 10,000 fw players year.
It depends who you want to attract to fw sov plexing.
If you want to attract people who want to fly pve ships and avoid pvp then an instant notification proposal will not be good.
Personally I don't mind it if people want to join fw for pve. They can do missions all day and night if they want, and make billions of isk.
But I do think fw sov should be a pvp mechanic. I don't really think the current situation where carebearing is how sov is determined in over 90% of systems is good. Right now there are only drawbacks for pvpers to join faction war.
For people who like to pvp instant notifications will be a great change. If you are afraid of hotdrops during bunker busts then don't give notifications for bunker busts. Will pirates and neutrals also come to fight in plexes? I hope so. They can help with the rabbits too.
of course several week old alt characters will leave fw. This will definitely ruin fw for that 10,000 or so alt characters.
Even so I think most alts will just run the missions instead. But those who leave will be more than replaced with pvpers. And it won't just be players from other parts of eve that come to farm isk. Many new players to eve will stay longer becasue eve will finally have something that provides frequent quality pvp. Thats something it sorely lacks now. Each new pvper will likely bring in 2 accounts. And I wouldnt' be surprised if eve had another 100k subscriptions in 2 years. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
168
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 22:16:00 -
[403] - Quote
So now notifications will boost ccps subscriber base......... sign him up guys here comes CCP_Cearain GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á ----------RIVERINI FOR CSM 8---------- |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
869
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 16:01:00 -
[404] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:So now notifications will boost ccps subscriber base......... sign him up guys here comes CCP_Cearain
Faction war can certainly be a major feature. There are about 500,000 subscribers to eve. That is likely at least 1 million characters. Yet fw doesn't even bring in 20,000 characters. Yes fixing faction war has allot of potential for helping eve. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour Caldari State Capturing
376
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 02:38:00 -
[405] - Quote
This thread not been locked yet?! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
853
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 09:06:00 -
[406] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:This thread not been locked yet?!
CCP dont even have the resources to lock a thread about FW much less fix anything.
They are probably busy working on giving the domi model extra green lumps or somthing
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Cosmic signature detected. . . . |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
921
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:17:00 -
[407] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:This thread not been locked yet?!
Its unlikely that locking these threads will do much. CCP needs to just do the things they originally planned on doing - Notifications and rollbacks. Until then carebearing will be the best way to win sov, and we will have threads like this popping up. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1359
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:32:00 -
[408] - Quote
It's Necro day in FW! |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
922
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:42:00 -
[409] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:It's Necro day in FW!
Same problem of rabbit plexing keeps coming up again and again. So rather than repeat the same solutions in different threads maybe ccp should just sticky a thread to deal with this issue. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:47:00 -
[410] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:It's Necro day in FW! Same problem of rabbit plexing keeps coming up again and again. So rather than repeat the same solutions in different threads maybe ccp should just sticky a thread to deal with this issue.
Beacause ccp dont see it as broken its not on the same level as it was pre ninja patch and doesnt get the publicity it got for it on well known eve related sites that practically said go here print LPs make lots of isk
On that fanfest link i posted for you they mentioned it was a mess before the changes and now its at something there happy with. GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
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Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
922
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:55:00 -
[411] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:It's Necro day in FW! Same problem of rabbit plexing keeps coming up again and again. So rather than repeat the same solutions in different threads maybe ccp should just sticky a thread to deal with this issue. Beacause ccp dont see it as broken its not on the same level as it was pre ninja patch and doesnt get the publicity it got for it on well known eve related sites that practically said go here print LPs make lots of isk On that fanfest link i posted for you they mentioned it was a mess before the changes and now its at something there happy with.
Oh you mean the link that proved you lied about what CCP said?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 14:58:00 -
[412] - Quote
Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:It's Necro day in FW! Same problem of rabbit plexing keeps coming up again and again. So rather than repeat the same solutions in different threads maybe ccp should just sticky a thread to deal with this issue. Beacause ccp dont see it as broken its not on the same level as it was pre ninja patch and doesnt get the publicity it got for it on well known eve related sites that practically said go here print LPs make lots of isk On that fanfest link i posted for you they mentioned it was a mess before the changes and now its at something there happy with. Oh you mean the link that proved you lied about what CCP said?
huh did u even watch it at all?
Your whiney posts even went from CCP wants to do this to they planned to but didnt :( sad panda GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
922
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 15:09:00 -
[413] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote: On that fanfest link i posted for you they mentioned it was a mess before the changes and now its at something there happy with.
Oh you mean the link that proved you lied about what CCP said? huh did u even watch it at all? Your whiney posts even went from CCP wants to do this to they planned to but didnt :( sad panda
At 24:50 he said they simply had time constraints so didn't add it. I gave you a link were ccp said they wanted a notification systems or at least better intel tools. Its earlier in this thread as well.
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:cearain wrote: Thats just it. CCP has already said they would like to do notifications
No they didnt as i said watch retribution round up of this years fanfest the dev says they had a notification system ready but yanked it cos its not in the essence of the sandbox..
Please give the point in the talk where the dev said this. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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greg01
Inglorious-Basterds Southern Renegades
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:41:00 -
[414] - Quote
As always some good ideas from all sides of the war zone. One thing is certain, CCP has made faction warfare much more interesting. You can now be a farmer or a pvp'r or both.
Would there be more complaining about cloaky/stabbed farmers if they were all on the Caldari/Amarr side?? Maybe? We'll never know at this time.
Low sec FW was relatively taken up by a select few in the past. Now it is busier than ever. This IS a good thing for everyone. I think ppl need to realise there is always a side(s) that will have the upper hand (no high five joke intended here) in FW. The fun comes from seeing the challenge in this!
What I would like to see is all four militias separate from each other. Separate the Amarr from Caldari and the Minmatar from Gallente. Let's see what happens afterwards?
Also, timer rollbacks. Just make things a wee bit harder for them pesky farmers.
Regards
tbm |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
356
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:49:00 -
[415] - Quote
greg01 wrote:
What I would like to see is all four militias separate from each other. Separate the Amarr from Caldari and the Minmatar from Gallente. Let's see what happens afterwards?
This would be great - but they need to put the 0.5 faction standing requirement to join FW back in place too.
The removal of the standing requirement is a major cause of the farmer alt invasion.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
927
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 09:01:00 -
[416] - Quote
ccp have many active account in fw therefore fw works just fine.
They should be more concerned about the tremendous isk they are creating here for little effort iwth a brand new char with no skills, which i thought they didnt like to do - perhaps thats a good angle of attack to get some attention?
Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg CCP Hilmar CEO > "why am i sweating, why is the game doing this to me"
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Colt Blackhawk
The Amarrian Expendables
125
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 09:46:00 -
[417] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:ccp have many active account in fw therefore fw works just fine.
They should be more concerned about the tremendous isk they are creating here for little effort iwth a brand new char with no skills, which i thought they didnt like to do - perhaps thats a good angle of attack to get some attention?
Maybe that is the point. A brandnew 3day old char can still make easily 1b isk/day simply for joining farmatar. Completely crazy.
Btw we really need a fix for fw missions. 50% of all minmatards I see fly a cloaky bomber to make 50b/month. CCP is flooding eve with isk again. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
652
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 10:12:00 -
[418] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Maybe that is the point. A brandnew 3day old char can still make easily 1b isk/day simply for joining farmatar. Completely crazy.
Btw we really need a fix for fw missions. 50% of all minmatards I see fly a cloaky bomber to make 50b/month. CCP is flooding eve with isk again. - Tier modifier's at least halved with lowest tier changed to 0 (ie. neither positive nor negative modifier) .. Fixed.
- Missions to hostile space only ... Fixed. - Poison pills in missions .. Fixed.
Anything else? |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:06:00 -
[419] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote: CCP is flooding eve with isk again.
Altough i get the sentiment of this...... Fw is actually an isk sink u may get a few mill from the bonus to mission but u have to put isk into the store to convert your lp the reason why we are getting rich is that were the bottleneck for faction goods, not because ccp are creating piles of isk like say what happened with incursions all our isk is from other players.
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
653
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:26:00 -
[420] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Altough i get the sentiment of this...... Fw is actually an isk sink u may get a few mill from the bonus to mission but u have to put isk into the store to convert your lp the reason why we are getting rich is that were the bottleneck for faction goods, not because ccp are creating piles of isk like say what happened with incursions all our isk is from other players.
They are not doing it directly, that much is true. But between encouraging alt use and gametime from marketable plex they end up doing it indirectly .. person buys GTC -> redeems into plex -> sells to characters/alts generating ISK through missions/incursions/ratting .. so while FW is not the origin point of the ISK, it is a contributor to peoples willingness to buy GTCs and thus infuse more money into game and CCP's coffers.
Anything that does not remove ISK from game outright is participating in the circle of inflation by incentivizing the GTC - Plex trade (ISK is used when available).
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
180
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:35:00 -
[421] - Quote
veshta wrote: so while FW is not the origin point of the ISK, it is a contributor to peoples willingness to buy GTCs and thus infuse more money into game and CCP's coffers.
the same can be said for isk making aspects of the game people who cant be arsed to grind ingame isk will always buy plex and sell them on the market. and while neone who has the ingame isk and drive to grind the isk or just cant afford to pay for subs with irl cash will always buy them ingame imo... so there will always be a market for this.... Since plex were introduced to the game ccp have been lining there pockets from the proceeds its a great money spinner for them but i dont think they intentionally keep a feature onesided or broken with the sole purpose to generate more income for the company (this is just my opinion before the flames start lololol) GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1361
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:41:00 -
[422] - Quote
GTC don't create isk either, and therefore don't increase the in-game isk supply. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
181
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 14:44:00 -
[423] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:GTC don't create isk either, and therefore don't increase the in-game isk supply.
I had that in my head but it didnt make the post even after editing the post 3 times....... Damn weed GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
930
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 17:35:00 -
[424] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:ccp have many active account in fw therefore fw works just fine.
They should be more concerned about the tremendous isk they are creating here for little effort iwth a brand new char with no skills, which i thought they didnt like to do - perhaps thats a good angle of attack to get some attention?
Maybe that is the point. A brandnew 3day old char can still make easily 1b isk/day simply for joining farmatar. Completely crazy. Btw we really need a fix for fw missions. 50% of all minmatards I see fly a cloaky bomber to make 50b/month. CCP is flooding eve with isk again.
If ccp ever manages to make plexing a pvp mechanic then the profitability of missions will outstrip plexing even further. Hopefully the risk involved with plexing will drastically increase after ccp finishes the changes they originally intended for fw. Since missions and plexing are both dependant on the value of lp reducing mission, lp pay, will in effect increase the pay for plexing.
But trying to balance the rewards before the risk involved in the activity is established, is going to be wasted effort. Before ccp does anything in fw they need to make plexing the pvp activity it was always intended to be. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
257
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 23:24:00 -
[425] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:ccp have many active account in fw therefore fw works just fine.
They should be more concerned about the tremendous isk they are creating here for little effort iwth a brand new char with no skills, which i thought they didnt like to do - perhaps thats a good angle of attack to get some attention?
Maybe that is the point. A brandnew 3day old char can still make easily 1b isk/day simply for joining farmatar. Completely crazy. Btw we really need a fix for fw missions. 50% of all minmatards I see fly a cloaky bomber to make 50b/month. CCP is flooding eve with isk again.
You amarr need to ask CCP to fix your warp drives first, they seem to activate automatically in the presence of reds.
Seriously, you didn't even put up a fight when we came calling today. I landed on grid, got jammed and by the time the jam cycle ended you were all running away.
We were 8 to your 16 and you had all the ewar and you still chickened out. Maybe your bleating about every little thing in FW would carry more weight if you had a spine or a *******. |
Typherian
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 00:12:00 -
[426] - Quote
I havn't been in FW in a long while but when I was there 8 minmatar landing on grid was called "bait" for the 20+ SFIs on the closest gate. Don't really care just felt like commenting on that shameless smacktalk. |
Ryun Thar
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 15:21:00 -
[427] - Quote
meh.. just leave FW. worked for me. |
Cosmo Raata
No Moar Tears I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 16:51:00 -
[428] - Quote
Love how ISD Dorrim Barstorlode just closed our newer thread on this subject and we have to necro this one to keep posting our complaints.
Way to ignore us CCP. Lock the thread and hope it goes away. |
Typherian
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
39
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 23:44:00 -
[429] - Quote
lock the thread with the slightly word filtered title? Why would they ever do that? |
Cosmo Raata
No Moar Tears I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:21:00 -
[430] - Quote
Typherian wrote:lock the thread with the slightly word filtered title? Why would they ever do that?
Yeah, cause the words, "This thread has run its course" has anything to do with their disdain of the title. Not to mention it has been up for a week+
But whatever, keep supporting CCP at every corner. Pushing back always gets you......nowhere? I forgot, we are afraid to push back for fear of them having to actually come up with better solutions I suppose. |
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Colt Blackhawk
The Amarrian Expendables
126
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 09:50:00 -
[431] - Quote
So let us wait how long it takes until this thread will be closed too. CCP doesn-¦t like it when someone tells them fw is not fine :D |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:15:00 -
[432] - Quote
Cosmo Raata wrote:Love how ISD Dorrim Barstorlode just closed our newer thread on this subject and we have to necro this one to keep posting our complaints.
Way to ignore us CCP. Lock the thread and hope it goes away. But why, FW is fine. I really can't see the problems you guys pretend to have.
Seems you need to adjust that corp title of yours. Remove the "NO", you seem to whining quite a lot.
/edit To be slightly more serious, if you want FW to work, make it work. Stop being mad on the forums, log in and do something about it. Whining doesn't change things. And whining about closed whine threads changes even less.
/edit #2 Heh, you actually whined about a whine thread that you opened after they closed your other whine thread. WE MUST GO DEEPER. pew pew |
Cosmo Raata
No Moar Tears I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
64
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 18:58:00 -
[433] - Quote
Zen Guerrilla wrote:Cosmo Raata wrote:Love how ISD Dorrim Barstorlode just closed our newer thread on this subject and we have to necro this one to keep posting our complaints.
Way to ignore us CCP. Lock the thread and hope it goes away. But why, FW is fine. I really can't see the problems you guys pretend to have. Seems you need to adjust that corp title of yours. Remove the "NO", you seem to whining quite a lot. /edit To be slightly more serious, if you want FW to work, make it work. Stop being mad on the forums, log in and do something about it. Whining doesn't change things. And whining about closed whine threads changes even less. /edit #2 Heh, you actually whined about a whine thread that you opened after they closed your other whine thread. WE MUST GO DEEPER.
Yes, and petition is now opened for that thread, which broke no rules except disagreeing with CCP. In fact, you talking about that thread being locked IS against the rules so if they do indeed follow their own rules they should automatically delete your post and mine regarding that decision. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
466
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 21:25:00 -
[434] - Quote
Cosmo Raata wrote:Zen Guerrilla wrote:Cosmo Raata wrote:Love how ISD Dorrim Barstorlode just closed our newer thread on this subject and we have to necro this one to keep posting our complaints.
Way to ignore us CCP. Lock the thread and hope it goes away. But why, FW is fine. I really can't see the problems you guys pretend to have. Seems you need to adjust that corp title of yours. Remove the "NO", you seem to whining quite a lot. /edit To be slightly more serious, if you want FW to work, make it work. Stop being mad on the forums, log in and do something about it. Whining doesn't change things. And whining about closed whine threads changes even less. /edit #2 Heh, you actually whined about a whine thread that you opened after they closed your other whine thread. WE MUST GO DEEPER. Yes, and petition is now opened for that thread, which broke no rules except disagreeing with CCP. In fact, you talking about that thread being locked IS against the rules so if they do indeed follow their own rules they should automatically delete your post and mine regarding that decision.
FW does not need veterans , FW needs just new players who want to get killed over and over again for nothing and without any good reason except that they have fun when ships explode. |
Cosmo Raata
No Moar Tears I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
64
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 22:15:00 -
[435] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Cosmo Raata wrote:Zen Guerrilla wrote:Cosmo Raata wrote:Love how ISD Dorrim Barstorlode just closed our newer thread on this subject and we have to necro this one to keep posting our complaints.
Way to ignore us CCP. Lock the thread and hope it goes away. But why, FW is fine. I really can't see the problems you guys pretend to have. Seems you need to adjust that corp title of yours. Remove the "NO", you seem to whining quite a lot. /edit To be slightly more serious, if you want FW to work, make it work. Stop being mad on the forums, log in and do something about it. Whining doesn't change things. And whining about closed whine threads changes even less. /edit #2 Heh, you actually whined about a whine thread that you opened after they closed your other whine thread. WE MUST GO DEEPER. Yes, and petition is now opened for that thread, which broke no rules except disagreeing with CCP. In fact, you talking about that thread being locked IS against the rules so if they do indeed follow their own rules they should automatically delete your post and mine regarding that decision. FW does not need veterans , FW needs just new players who want to get killed over and over again for nothing and without any good reason except that they have fun when ships explode.
And that has something to do with what I posted how? |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
182
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 11:40:00 -
[436] - Quote
Cosmo Raata wrote:Love how ISD Dorrim Barstorlode just closed our newer thread on this subject and we have to necro this one to keep posting our complaints.
Way to ignore us CCP. Lock the thread and hope it goes away.
As i said in that thread if you wanted ccp to recognise ur thread u should have moved it to features. Isds arnt ccp there volunteers to keep the forums and stuff running and moderated.
Also necroing this thread?This thread wasnt dead just because yours was newer, We were still commenting in here neway we didnt drag it up just cos your thread as locked either. GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
668
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 12:13:00 -
[437] - Quote
Typherian wrote:I havn't been in FW in a long while but when I was there 8 minmatar landing on grid was called "bait" for the 20+ SFIs on the closest gate. Don't really care just felt like commenting on that shameless smacktalk. even if these 20+ SFI was there... In 16 (EWAR included) vs 8 you can simply kill this bait and then leave battlefield. Leaving "just because it can be bait" can lead to very bad consequences.... |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 15:03:00 -
[438] - Quote
Cosmo Raata wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Cosmo Raata wrote:Zen Guerrilla wrote:Cosmo Raata wrote:Love how ISD Dorrim Barstorlode just closed our newer thread on this subject and we have to necro this one to keep posting our complaints.
Way to ignore us CCP. Lock the thread and hope it goes away. But why, FW is fine. I really can't see the problems you guys pretend to have. Seems you need to adjust that corp title of yours. Remove the "NO", you seem to whining quite a lot. /edit To be slightly more serious, if you want FW to work, make it work. Stop being mad on the forums, log in and do something about it. Whining doesn't change things. And whining about closed whine threads changes even less. /edit #2 Heh, you actually whined about a whine thread that you opened after they closed your other whine thread. WE MUST GO DEEPER. Yes, and petition is now opened for that thread, which broke no rules except disagreeing with CCP. In fact, you talking about that thread being locked IS against the rules so if they do indeed follow their own rules they should automatically delete your post and mine regarding that decision. FW does not need veterans , FW needs just new players who want to get killed over and over again for nothing and without any good reason except that they have fun when ships explode. And that has something to do with what I posted how? I'd say it has nothing to do with what you posted because what you post just isn't relevant. At all.
pew pew |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
255
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 20:31:00 -
[439] - Quote
I have removed some posts regarding forum moderation. If you feel a moderation error has been made on this forum please file a petition and do not post about it on the forum.
11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.
30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
ISD Ezwal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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