Why? The main problem is artynado and rail naga fleets

Why do you think that mass in itself is a meaningful statistic? Try looking at speeds and align times.

How are they problems?

Do you realize that the most overpowered rig in eve history was the POlycarbon that used to do what? REDUCE mass!!

MAss affects exponentially the gain of speed under MWD .

What fleets of tr3s do you see? You see artynados and railnagas. They can kill stuff from 200km away. They have extremely high alpha. 2 nagas on a gatecamp make it pretty much non-engageble in a cruiser, since they will kill a well tanked cruiser in about 30s (maybe up to 60s if they dont trust their tackle and do it from 200km instead of 100km), and can do this from almost anywhere on grid.

Is your argument that because people fly it, it needs nerfing? And that battlecruisers can kill cruisers?

Well hot damn son, colour me shocked.

spoiler: you might need to learn how to do things other than just burn at things with your mwd on

Are you trying to demonstrate what hyperbole is?

Im saying people fly them because they are overpowered and take far more effort to deal with than to use.

And bcs killing cruisers is fine. Killing them in seconds from 200k is not.

If their scan res were reduced, it would give lighter fleets the opportunity to warp off when a sniper tier 3 BC fleets landed at range. Other than that, I don't see a big deal. Attack BCs sniping BSs and/or caps from long range looks like working as intended to me.

So your proposed counter to a rail naga blob is "run"?

So your proposed counter to a rail naga blob is "run"?

Seriously, you appear to be arguing that a Naga shouldn't be able to hit a cruiser as it approaches from 200 km. Actually it probably can't if you'd bothered to bring the right tool for the job - TDs or RSDs.

Single T1 cruiser 200 km off a Naga gang? Yes, run like hell.

Seriously, you appear to be arguing that a Naga shouldn't be able to hit a cruiser as it approaches from 200 km. Actually it probably can't if you'd bothered to bring the right tool for the job - TDs or RSDs.

A caracal cant damp or TD a naga from 100km

Try fitting a sensor booster. Gives ~50% chance of a TD hit, or ~78% of a RSD hit, at 110 km.

@CCP Rise, I'm curious to see if you feel there is any need to bring the power levels on these down at all to make the other BC's more ....whats the word i'm looking for? Used?

Used doesn't feel right but its kind of in the spirit of what I'm looking for, as right now theres no real reason to use any other BC over the Talos except for not being trained enough to use its guns.

I am completely unimpressed to be honest. This change will hurt close range fits of Tier3 BCs that overwhelmed other BC in this role and it is good. But it will have almost non-existent impact on most popular sniper formats where they completely removed BS from roaming gangs and midscale PVP. It is just not right when Tier 3 BC will have larger Range and DPS than corresponding BS,

I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree here. In my experience you have several metrics that are all really important to what a ship is good at, and all the ships you mention have completely different allocation of those metrics. Combat BC EHP makes them a lot more ideal as tacklers/bait ships than attack BCs. So having a drake alongside your talos to hold points without getting killed is very valuable. HACs like the vaga generally are much more capable of dealing with small support. So having vaga (or deimos or zealot or even rupture) to support an attack BC by protecting it from tacklers is very valuable. Attack BC have the highest damage/projection so they are generally going to have a lot of value based on that.

The prevalence of each role shifts based on a lot of things, but I don't see a direct tension between them. You don't get read for a roam and say - which ship has the most damage, lets take only those. At least thats been my experience.

Talos just does outclass every BC in a gang situation full stop.