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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Just Another Toon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
90
   |
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:52:00 -
[361] - Quote
Cedille Mureau wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:Cedille Mureau wrote:Tippia wrote:Please post the official rule saying that the CSM is somehow magically different from all other elected representative bodies in the history of mankind and that they must uphold your rather unrealistic idealGǪ Damn, how many times do I have to post this? "The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the GÇ£greatest good for the greater player baseGÇ¥. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis. Please note: This document was originally created by P+¬tur J+¦hannes +ôskarsson on behalf of CCP. The CSM is not a vehicle for massaging the egos of its members notr is it the means whereby a minority of the game gets an unfair advantage. Sorry about the long delay in replying to Tippia's post, but timezones are a nuisance. So whats the point? The point being that CCP set up the CSM to represent the whole of the EVE players base and not as has happened to further the aims of a minority who happen to get most of the CSM members elected. Don't know about the USA but in the UK no matter what party the MP belongs to it is their duty to represent the WHOLE of their consitiuents' interests not just those voters of the party to which they belong.
I think you may find that in the UK, we have local councils which represent the constituents, and we have national government that represents the WHOLE of the UK
The CSM are not local they are in these terms national...
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Xython
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:52:00 -
[362] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:Xython wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:So whats the point? The point of the CSM? To represent the player base and bring things up in an orderly fashion. (If I recall correctly, wasn't the CSM founded after some CCP Dev got caught leaking information to Band of Brothers, or somesuch nonsense? I'm not fully versed in my ancient New Eden history.) No your point... and yes to REPRESENT THE PLAYERBASE.... think about that for the moment. also 'for the greater good of the playerbase' are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?
Yes, absolutely. He's killing ice miner bots. That is by definition the best possible thing people can do if they love EVE and want to see it continue.
A close second is creating "user content" -- and by god, the Gallente Ice fields haven't been this exciting in 3+ years. He's getting people to talk. He's getting people to login. He's shaking up the markets. He's making the game interesting again.
So yes, Mittani's most recent actions have been very, VERY good for the game. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
616
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:52:00 -
[363] - Quote
Cedille Mureau wrote:Tippia wrote:Please post the official rule saying that the CSM is somehow magically different from all other elected representative bodies in the history of mankind and that they must uphold your rather unrealistic idealGǪ Damn, how many times do I have to post this? "The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the GÇ£greatest good for the greater player baseGÇ¥. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis. Please note: This document was originally created by P+¬tur J+¦hannes +ôskarsson on behalf of CCP. The CSM is not a vehicle for massaging the egos of its members nor should it be the means whereby a minority of the game gets an unfair advantage. Sorry about the long delay in replying to Tippia's post, but timezones are a nuisance.
But that describes his activities as a CSM, not his activities in-game.
How, specifcally, have his actions within the CSM contravened that mandate?
I'm not asking what he's said (mittens loves to troll), but what he's actually DONE in the CSM that you think is so bad?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group
DarkCorp Imperium
46
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:52:00 -
[364] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?
Yes, or at the very least neutral.
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Xython
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:54:00 -
[365] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I'm not asking what he's said (mittens loves to troll), but what he's actually DONE in the CSM that you think is so bad?
None of them have an answer for you.
Hell, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they don't even know one thing he's done good OR bad in the CSM.
They're just mad that Goons have switched to pirating ice miners, killed their ice miner bots, and The Mittani is the most easily talked about name involved. That's it. They have no complaints about his activities as CSM, they're just desperately trying to use it as a wedge to control and/or punish him. |
Just Another Toon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
90
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:54:00 -
[366] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Cedille Mureau wrote:Tippia wrote:Please post the official rule saying that the CSM is somehow magically different from all other elected representative bodies in the history of mankind and that they must uphold your rather unrealistic idealGǪ Damn, how many times do I have to post this? "The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the GÇ£greatest good for the greater player baseGÇ¥. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis. Please note: This document was originally created by P+¬tur J+¦hannes +ôskarsson on behalf of CCP. The CSM is not a vehicle for massaging the egos of its members nor should it be the means whereby a minority of the game gets an unfair advantage. Sorry about the long delay in replying to Tippia's post, but timezones are a nuisance. But that describes his activities as a CSM, not his activities in-game. How, specifcally, have his actions within the CSM contravened that mandate? I'm not asking what he's said (mittens loves to troll), but what he's actually DONE in the CSM that you think is so bad?
Lets put this question to you.
Do you think its right that the chair of the CSM, who is supposed to represent the playerbase, and act for the 'greater good' of the playerbase, uses his position to scam people in game?
Do you?
just a simple yes or no.. if you vote yes then this is everything that is wrong about eve and the CSM...
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Just Another Toon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
90
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:55:00 -
[367] - Quote
Xython wrote:Malcanis wrote:I'm not asking what he's said (mittens loves to troll), but what he's actually DONE in the CSM that you think is so bad? None of them have an answer for you. Hell, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they don't even know one thing he's done good OR bad in the CSM. They're just mad that Goons have switched to pirating ice miners, killed their ice miner bots, and The Mittani is the most easily talked about name involved. That's it. They have no complaints about his activities as CSM, they're just desperately trying to use it as a wedge to control and/or punish him.
Sorry goon posts dont interest me, infact this is the last one i shall reply to...
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Just Another Toon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
90
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:57:00 -
[368] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really? Yes, or at the very least neutral.
Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit ....
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Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:57:00 -
[369] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:Sorry goon posts dont interest me, infact this is the last one i shall reply to...
Ah so you don't want an actual discussion...you just want to rant and hear back from your sock puppets.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
617
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:58:00 -
[370] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:Malcanis wrote:The Apostle wrote:Malcanis wrote:
"OK so one group of EVE players is fighting another group of EVE players, why should we see this as a problem?"
Fight? Where? Oh... Sorry. You mean the massive highly funded 0.0 alliances bashing individual players senseless and using "bots" and "economics" as justification? Sorry. Yes. That "fight". My bad. Yeah, sounds pretty much like the majority of 0.0 campaigns, tbh. So again where's the problem. You're in a boat, I want to violence it; I stay within the rules of the game and you make no effectual response. Where do the CSM come into this gap between my competence and your lack of it? You seem to be completely missing the point..As always Malcanis.. The issue isnt wth the scamming or attacking whatever, its about players seeing these people as people they can trust! But they use this position of trust to abuse the game, such as scamming. If a person contacts a CSM about anything in game, most players would expect to be treat with honesty. Then they get scammed, how can that be good for the game, and what the CSM represents? Seriously
Do you have any actual evidence of any CSM member using a CSM query made by another player to scam them or is it something you just dreamed up that they MIGHT do?
Contrariwise, since when were the CSM members supposed to be of purest virtue within their normal in-game play? The CSM chair of the previous CSM, Mynxee, was a ruthless and implacable pirate, for instance.
You're inventing a restriction on the in-game activity of CSM members that simply doesn't exist. It's like saying that the President isn't allowed to bluff when he plays his buddies at poker on a saturday night, because bluffing is nothing more than lying and scamming and that's not what a president should do!!!!!!11111 oneone
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Just Another Toon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
122
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:58:00 -
[371] - Quote
Goddess Ishtar wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:Sorry goon posts dont interest me, infact this is the last one i shall reply to... Ah so you don't want an actual discussion...you just want to rant and hear back from your sock puppets.
I must reply, i would like a NON BIASED discussion, sadly you cant do that...
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Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group
DarkCorp Imperium
47
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 07:59:00 -
[372] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit ....
Scamming, ganking, etc, within the rules is competition. Competition creates content. Content creates the game.
I don't think you ~get~ Eve. |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group
DarkCorp Imperium
47
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:00:00 -
[373] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:You're inventing a restriction on the in-game activity of CSM members that simply doesn't exist. It's like saying that the President isn't allowed to bluff when he plays his buddies at poker on a saturday night, because bluffing is nothing more than lying and scamming and that's not what a president should do!!!!!!11111 oneone
Excellent analogy. I wish I had thought of it.
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Just Another Toon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
122
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:00:00 -
[374] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:Malcanis wrote:The Apostle wrote:Malcanis wrote:
"OK so one group of EVE players is fighting another group of EVE players, why should we see this as a problem?"
Fight? Where? Oh... Sorry. You mean the massive highly funded 0.0 alliances bashing individual players senseless and using "bots" and "economics" as justification? Sorry. Yes. That "fight". My bad. Yeah, sounds pretty much like the majority of 0.0 campaigns, tbh. So again where's the problem. You're in a boat, I want to violence it; I stay within the rules of the game and you make no effectual response. Where do the CSM come into this gap between my competence and your lack of it? You seem to be completely missing the point..As always Malcanis.. The issue isnt wth the scamming or attacking whatever, its about players seeing these people as people they can trust! But they use this position of trust to abuse the game, such as scamming. If a person contacts a CSM about anything in game, most players would expect to be treat with honesty. Then they get scammed, how can that be good for the game, and what the CSM represents? Seriously Do you have any actual evidence of any CSM member using a CSM query made by another player to scam them or is it something you just dreamed up that they MIGHT do? Contrariwise, since when were the CSM members supposed to be of purest virtue within their normal in-game play? The CSM chair of the previous CSM, Mynxee, was a ruthless and implacable pirate, for instance. You're inventing a restriction on the in-game activity of CSM members that simply doesn't exist. It's like saying that the President isn't allowed to bluff when he plays his buddies at poker on a saturday night, because bluffing is nothing more than lying and scamming and that's not what a president should do!!!!!!11111 oneone
Hang on piracy and scamming is not the same thing... and president scamming his MATES and a President scamming his people is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, if he was found to be abusing his power, he would be removed from office.. The people would demand it..Simple...
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
617
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:01:00 -
[375] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:Elise DarkStar wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really? Yes, or at the very least neutral. Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit ....
Well for everyone one hurt-butte forum whiner like you, there are ten readers laughing their ass off at your foolishness, so the calculus felix is in effect.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Just Another Toon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
122
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:01:00 -
[376] - Quote
Elise DarkStar wrote:Malcanis wrote:You're inventing a restriction on the in-game activity of CSM members that simply doesn't exist. It's like saying that the President isn't allowed to bluff when he plays his buddies at poker on a saturday night, because bluffing is nothing more than lying and scamming and that's not what a president should do!!!!!!11111 oneone Excellent analogy. I wish I had thought of it.
Errr no its not, see my response..are you alt liking your own post Mal?
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Just Another Toon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
122
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:02:00 -
[377] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:Elise DarkStar wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really? Yes, or at the very least neutral. Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit .... Well for everyone one hurt-butte forum whiner like you, there are ten readers laughing their ass off at your foolishness, so the calculus felix is in effect.
Yeah great answer...oh dear...
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Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:03:00 -
[378] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
A real fighter... Not some dimwit standing on the street shooting his mouth off with 100 mates to back him up (analogy G&&ns).
Meh, I'll take my bushrangers like Captain Thunderbolt, a gentleman who left a life of ease (high sec) for thrills n spills (0.0).
If I recall correctly, his dying words were his beloved's name.
The Kellys had more excuses than a pregnant nun.
Just sayin'.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
88
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:03:00 -
[379] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:Elise DarkStar wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really? Yes, or at the very least neutral. Wtf please explain the 'greater good' bit .... Well for everyone one hurt-butte forum whiner like you, there are ten readers laughing their ass off at your foolishness, so the calculus felix is in effect. Yeah great answer...oh dear...
Well, yes. I am not seeing you coming up anything greater.
GÖ½ When your ship gets blown to bits
GÖ½ And you lose your Faction fits
\Gÿ+/ Don't worry GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½
GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ Be Happy \Gÿ+/ |
Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:04:00 -
[380] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:Goddess Ishtar wrote:Just Another Toon wrote:Sorry goon posts dont interest me, infact this is the last one i shall reply to... Ah so you don't want an actual discussion...you just want to rant and hear back from your sock puppets. I must reply, i would like a NON BIASED discussion, sadly you cant do that...
No you want a biased discussion as long as the bias is towards your loony theories
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Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
215
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:05:00 -
[381] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:Feligast wrote:I guarantee the OP one thing.. if he were to physically drag Mittens into Hilmar's office and lay out his grievances and charges of scamming and ganking, Hilmar would look at Mittens, laugh, and throw the OP out of the building.
Mittens, and the CSM, don't make the game. They just play it. Well maybe hilmar should step down as CEO as well then...
Okay, now I know this is all a troll. Well played, good sir, you've got 19 pages and growing. I applaud you.
EDIT: 20 pages! |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
170
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:06:00 -
[382] - Quote
Can CCP close a thread where a person uses two hand puppets to have an argument with himself?
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
617
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:08:00 -
[383] - Quote
Just Another Toon wrote:
Hang on piracy and scamming is not the same thing... and president scamming his MATES and a President scamming his people is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, if he was found to be abusing his power, he would be removed from office.. The people would demand it..Simple...
Why is piracy different from scamming? Both are wholly legitimate, game-legal forms of PvP, not only permitted by CCP, but actively endorsed and even included in their public advertising for the game. Scamming is no worse than bluffing in poker; both are an attempt to play on your opponent's greed to make him think that he's going to trick you, when in fact it is he who is being tricked. It's very difficult to scam someone who doesn't secretly think that he's getting the best of the deal.
But even if scamming were somehow "worse" than piracy, so what? In-game play means nothing to someone's CSM position as long as they stay within the rules. What rules has mittens broken? None. What abuse has he made of his CSM position? From the actual evidence you've presented: NONE
If mittens has been misbehaving within the CSM, then produce your evidence.
So far all you've shown us is "Mittens is a goon; I hate goons; therefore mittens should not be on the CSM".
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Jen'Dar
Shodan Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:10:00 -
[384] - Quote
[/quote]
You just dont get it do you...
[/quote]
Best thread ever.
You, OP, seem to be the only one here that is missing the point. EVE is pain and misery, wrapped up in scams and lawlessness.
It doesn't take very long to realise that the game is full of people, like Mittens, who enjoy these aspects of the game. Just because i dont go around scamming and ganking ice bots, doesn't mean it doesn't make me smile when it happens 
I think you need to take a long hard look at what EVE means to you. are you here to have fun? are you still having fun? if not, perhaps you should be looking at other games that suit your playstyle better? may i suggest LEGO universe?
Those of us who love EVE, Love it for what it is.
Including the Mittani. do you think he would still be playing if he didn't love it? only a fool would say that he hasn't achieved anything while being on the CSM. the proof is there if you want to find it.
I fully support the Mittani, since all he is doing is continuing to make eve an interesting, evolving sandbox. and i do it without hiding behind an alt.
I may not trust him (you're an idiot if you do  ), but i gotta give him full props for everything he has managed to achieve in EVE and as a member of CSM!
Long live Mittens, long live the CSM! |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group
DarkCorp Imperium
47
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:11:00 -
[385] - Quote
The fact that someone elected to represent me can do so both in spite of and by the very act of scamming me is what makes Eve so ******* great.
His scamming me in no way precludes him from representing my specific interests to CCP, and he is in fact representing my general interests by competing with me through scamming, killing, griefing, extorting (etc) me.
Again, if this doesn't make sense to you, then you don't understand this game.
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
170
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:11:00 -
[386] - Quote
Jen'Dar wrote:Quote:
You just dont get it do you...
Best thread ever. You, OP, seem to be the only one here that is missing the point. EVE is pain and misery, wrapped up in scams and lawlessness. It doesn't take very long to realise that the game is full of people, like Mittens, who enjoy these aspects of the game. Just because i dont go around scamming and ganking ice bots, doesn't mean it doesn't make me smile when it happens I think you need to take a long hard look at what EVE means to you. are you here to have fun? are you still having fun? if not, perhaps you should be looking at other games that suit your playstyle better? may i suggest LEGO universe? Those of us who love EVE, Love it for what it is. Including the Mittani. do you think he would still be playing if he didn't love it? only a fool would say that he hasn't achieved anything while being on the CSM. the proof is there if you want to find it. I fully support the Mittani, since all he is doing is continuing to make eve an interesting, evolving sandbox. and i do it without hiding behind an alt. I may not trust him (you're an idiot if you do ), but i gotta give him full props for everything he has managed to achieve in EVE and as a member of CSM! Long live Mittens, long live the CSM!
You are the one missing the point the op is an alt and you have just been trolled.
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
69
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:12:00 -
[387] - Quote
Darn it's true..
Just Another Toon a Goon alt.
I bet you guys troll each other all the time on your own forums. I think a few Goons just got bored of doing this on your own forums and started this thread just to see how long you could keep it going. |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:13:00 -
[388] - Quote
I'm 95% convinced this whole thing is a troll by someone with too much time.
At this point, you are really only trolling yourself. |
Shadako
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:19:00 -
[389] - Quote
Dalloway Jones wrote:What are CSM supposed to do? Sit in a throne room in a station all day waving politely to the public?
Yes and reading Futa hentai. Anything else has no E HONORS. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
170
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 08:23:00 -
[390] - Quote
baby pigs are so cute why do they have to grow up
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
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