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Official Protest - Mittani should be removed from CSM

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Lord Zim Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 546	Posted - 2012.01.24 13:31:00 - [961] - Quote I'd say being disorganized and then whining about it is worse.
Dream Five Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate 133	Posted - 2012.01.24 13:46:00 - [962] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: Dream Five wrote: I don't see anything wrong here other than the fact that voting is much better coordinated in big alliances (ok that's wrong) Why is being organized wrong? I suspect fractured hisec people, newbies and smaller losec alliances have their interests they'd want to be represented, but are not in a huge alliance that centralizes their interests with the same power as big nullsec alliances. The biggest thing here is Alliance Mail, where you send one mail and get 3k votes. That's a little unfair and also is not in CCP's or majority's interests since (i suspect) the current election process simply does not represent the majority vote.
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 433	Posted - 2012.01.24 14:15:00 - [963] - Quote Elane010 wrote: Tallian Saotome wrote: I didn't realize the 10% of the population who live in nullsec were the majority of eve's population Oh, woe unto my terrible elementary school teachers, lying to me about how math works, and falsely claiming that 10% was no where near a majority! Just further proof of how terrible the modern education system is, I tell ya. Yeah I agree, your teachers wasn't to bright. Might want to try to understand what you read. I never said Null had a majority, but goonswarm has the most players in its alliance compared to other alliances. Let me know if I am typing too fast for ya? I can spread it out more for ya. Tallians' math teacher probably didn't do him any favors, but your ENGLISH teacher flat out screwed you. We'll take you more seriously when you learn how to spell correctly. You want to get a coherent thought out, learn to spell and use proper sentence structures. Just sayin'. If you want to bash someone on C&P, you had better bring your A game, cuz right now you're pulling a strong C. Just sayin' Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Killer Gandry Shadow of the Pain 31	Posted - 2012.01.24 15:54:00 - [964] - Quote Mortis vonShadow wrote: Tallians' math teacher probably didn't do him any favors, but your ENGLISH teacher flat out screwed you. We'll take you more seriously when you learn how to spell correctly. Attacking someone on his inability to type flawless english is a sign of weakness. Instead you should discuss the matter at hand. The person you attack on their flawed ability to express themselves in a "maybe for them foreign language' might be more fluent in his or her own language and would beat you to death with it if you were able to go into discussion with them in their native language. I bet if I were to discuss in my own language and you would have to google your replies I could burn you all over your mistakes. So please try to not be a teacher in language untill you learned yourself to talk several languages flawless. Untill then stay on topic if you can. Mortis vonShadow wrote: cuz right now you're pulling a strong C. Just sayin'. Or do you want people to look at that part and talk about the propper useage of the english language aswel?
Blatant Forum Alt Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.01.24 17:07:00 - [965] - Quote So much butthurt in a single thread... We need more tear farmers!
Killer Gandry Shadow of the Pain 32	Posted - 2012.01.24 18:45:00 - [966] - Quote Blatant Forum Alt wrote: So much butthurt in a single thread... We need more tear farmers! Let's see. You talk about balls, about butthurt etc... Do you want to confess to something? Or perhaps show us on this doll where teh nasty man touched you? Well. I have balls because I post with my main. You on the other hand prove that you lack balls. I am not butthurt because I don't feel the need to hide behind an alt to troll and flame. You on the other hand seem to have developed more hemeroids than anyone else.
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 355	Posted - 2012.01.24 19:49:00 - [967] - Quote Mortis vonShadow wrote: Elane010 wrote: Tallian Saotome wrote: I didn't realize the 10% of the population who live in nullsec were the majority of eve's population Oh, woe unto my terrible elementary school teachers, lying to me about how math works, and falsely claiming that 10% was no where near a majority! Just further proof of how terrible the modern education system is, I tell ya. Yeah I agree, your teachers wasn't to bright. Might want to try to understand what you read. I never said Null had a majority, but goonswarm has the most players in its alliance compared to other alliances. Let me know if I am typing too fast for ya? I can spread it out more for ya. Tallians' math teacher probably didn't do him any favors, but your ENGLISH teacher flat out screwed you. We'll take you more seriously when you learn how to spell correctly. You want to get a coherent thought out, learn to spell and use proper sentence structures. Just sayin'. If you want to bash someone on C&P, you had better bring your A game, cuz right now you're pulling a strong C. Just sayin' Thanks for the defense, but this isn't C&P. Its Jita Park o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
Mortis vonShadow Balanaz Mining and Development Inc. 435	Posted - 2012.01.24 19:54:00 - [968] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: Thanks for the defense, but this isn't C&P. Its Jita Park Its all good, I stand by those that can think for themselves and not get all emotional because someone upset the apple cart. You're a good egg, so I got your back. The others naysayers are just scrubs. Just sayin'. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 355	Posted - 2012.01.24 19:59:00 - [969] - Quote Mortis vonShadow wrote: Tallian Saotome wrote: Thanks for the defense, but this isn't C&P. Its Jita Park Its all good, I stand by those that can think for themselves and not get all emotional because someone upset the apple cart. You're a good egg, so I got your back. The others naysayers are just scrubs. Just sayin'. I actually understand the point. I just disagree. Dream Five up there thinks that people who organize to have a say have an unfair advantage over those who can't be bothered or just don't understand the political nature of this game. Namely, that reputation is EVERYTHING in New Eden, and the more you have, the more influence you have over the game. Perhaps some people should ask Chribba why he doesn't run. Pretty sure he would be elected, but afaik he will not volunteer. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/`
Zirse Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 209	Posted - 2012.01.24 22:42:00 - [970] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: I didn't realize the 10% of the population who live in nullsec were the majority of eve's population Oh, woe unto my terrible elementary school teachers, lying to me about how math works, and falsely claiming that 10% was no where near a majority! Just further proof of how terrible the modern education system is, I tell ya. Haha. The only data we have on % of players in nullsec vs highsec is character-based. As it stands, 67% of characters with SP>5m are located in highsec. However, using a character based metric is misleading, most if not all players keep multiple characters in highsec, regardless of where they play. I'm sure CCP has a number linked to accounts or even credit cards with a better picture of population breakdown. Given that the last 6 months they've been running around trying to put out fires and appease the non-highsec crowd, and given that both faction warfare and sov-warfare are two major tasks on their to-do list I think it's pretty clear just how the population is actually broken down. But please continue running around thinking that CCP is just willfully neglecting their largest revenue driver.
Signal11th 409	Posted - 2012.01.25 08:06:00 - [971] - Quote Gotta love EVE the only game where the more organized you are the more people hate you and think you're up to no good. The fact that some of the CSM have access to a ready 1000+ votes is moot, they have probably worked fairly hard to get to that position. As with all things in life there are easy answers to problems, you just have to get off your a rse stop complaining and get things done. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster.
Mintrolio Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 60	Posted - 2012.01.28 07:33:00 - [972] - Quote CONFRIMIGN ALL YOU LIKES IN PAOST NEED VOTIGN FUR ME. ALSO HEAR: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12443&find=unread ALSO DOWN WITH MITANI
rodyas Tie Fighters Inc 239	Posted - 2012.02.01 19:55:00 - [973] - Quote You are a strong candidate mintrolio, your goat can carry a heavy load more then most CSM are able to. Also I trust your goat to put a strong hoof down when hilmar and CCP gang want to go to far. And when sadly your goat cannot talk or communicate, your excellent posts will carry the message forward. Threads like this generally result in anything positive. Locked.
Little Brat The Mighty 0	Posted - 2012.02.16 04:13:00 - [974] - Quote Have spent a couple of days now poring over the CSM election process, readings everybody's thoughts,views. This post about getting rid of CSM who in game scams and plays darkly. The posters main complaint is that the player elected to a CSM position gets a flag on their charachter portrait that says "CSM", which she believes to be a badge of honor and rerspect. She believes the player wearing the badge is using it to lure unsuspecting players into a scam. The simple answer is remove the flag from a players portrait. What possible purpose does it serve?
Mu'ad Diib The Mighty 35	Posted - 2012.02.16 04:40:00 - [975] - Quote Just Another Toon wrote: ... not sure if i am happy playing a game where corruption and vote rigging is rife. The current voting system is open to abuse and is being abused. Having 2000+ and 3000+ alts of YOUR OWN people voting for you guarantees your in the CSM. This is the normal world is called vote rigging. Also a CSM that feels they only represent their own voters (their alliance) and not the entire playerbase is a problem, and this is not what CSM was about. Your feelings on this very much echo my own. I think ultimately the democratic representation of player views should be about truth, honesty and integrity. Sadly with some of the massive block voting that seems to go on this is not the case. The only way that this will change however is for player to take on the block vote and this can only be achieved by the election of truly independent candidates. I definitely fall into this category. If you, or anyone else who finds the sectarian block vote unacceptable felt able to support me with a 'like' for my election post, I'd be very grateful. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Grumpy Owly Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 179	Posted - 2012.02.16 04:41:00 - [976] - Quote To be honest irrespective of a democratic process afforded to the CSM I personally believe that Punktani is offfering no respect to principles of what democracy actually means. Nor is he in anyway fullfilling the outlined obligations as set out in the CSM guidelines. His very selfish interest reflects this of which he is farily transparent about. I would not confuse this with honesty about a stance however, just that he is manipulating and working a certain stance for his own ends. And then we get the ridiculous claims that he is soley responsible in driving CCP development from his "bar bill". He also supports gaming stances that are clearly against CCP guidelines (e.g. griefing, Botting for his own alliance). He also prefers to apply his own juvenille use of expletives (some disfavouring disadvantaged groups) in communication with others and generally shows little respect to other players or their interests when in conflict with his own. He works for a lack of transparency on issues and affords him self the lack of accountability in his position. And somehow CCP sees it as fitting to retain this individual as an "ambassador" for the game. Other than having an alliance capable of getting the votes, there are really no admirable qualities. His continual self acclaimed ego confusing "manipulation" with real leadership qualities is just hilarious in my view and shows a lack of understanding towards real social empowerment. As such to some extent I do wonder why CCP affords to put up with this influence, as for me it reflects badly on them that they entertain some of the stupid behavoural aspects when representing EvE as a council member. I have also thought that it might be due to the fact that CCP don't want the drama that could be engulfed on the community if they did take steps to correct this influence. Interestingly I'm unsure what the outcome would be from that, and to some extent I would suspect the income from Goons is still very relevant to them. Should CCP take the view to remove him I would not see it as a dismissal of "freedom of expression" as the Mittani gives no respect to the meaning of this unless it coincides with his own stance. So personally if a ceratin portion of the community is offending the game principles then It might be more healthy in the long run to remove it. To be honest if the head of the Goons were to be "lanced" like a boil from the face of EvE politics I would imagine there might be uproar for a short term, but I'd imagine a number of the Goons and affliates would still continue to play and press for a similar candidate to further the stupidity. So ultimatley it would be ineffective if the behavoural aspects are not corrected. As a result it might be be a case of "better the devil you know" and trying to accomodate. There is of course one useful way to remove unwanted interests from the Council. Encourage voting in alternative candidacies and try to remove apathy and ignorance. How you would in any way do this within the Goon community is a different matter. But I think if you want to achieve something you have to work towards it in a number of different platforms. And simply don't give up due to intolerance or predjudice. "All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems."
Woo Glin GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 390	Posted - 2012.02.16 04:57:00 - [977] - Quote He's going to get re-elected and there's quite literally nothing you can do about it. Sorry about your representation. :((((
Mu'ad Diib The Mighty 35	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:04:00 - [978] - Quote Little Brat wrote: ... The posters main complaint is that the player elected to a CSM position gets a flag on their charachter portrait that says "CSM", which she believes to be a badge of honor and rerspect. She believes the player wearing the badge is using it to lure unsuspecting players into a scam. The simple answer is remove the flag from a players portrait. What possible purpose does it serve? I think Little Brat makes a very good point here. Personally, I think that there are pros and cons for both retaining it and for removing it. My feeling is that the CSM tag is good from the point of view that it makes members of the CSM identifiable to all other players. If I get voted in, (which would be a great honour) then I would want to be identifiably accessible to the maximum number of players so that I can act as a conduit for their views. I also realise that by being readily identifiable in this way, other players have an absolute right to expect, from me, or for that matter any representative of the CSM, the highest and most ethical in game and RL behaviour. If a member of the CSM tacitly supports, either publicly or covertly, behaviour or gaming stances that are against CCP guidelines there should be some kind of proper response to this and ultimately this should include, for serious abuse of office immediate removal from office. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Doctor Eezee GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:06:00 - [979] - Quote Mu'ad Diib wrote: [quote=Little Brat] [i]. I also realise that by being readily identifiable in this way, other players have an absolute right to expect, from me, or for that matter any representative of the CSM, the highest and most ethical in game and RL behaviour. Why?
Mu'ad Diib The Mighty 35	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:09:00 - [980] - Quote Woo Glin wrote: He's going to get re-elected and there's quite literally nothing you can do about it. You're right that this may be a likely scenario due to the amount of support that he has, however what you can do is support and vote for independent candidates like myself who are committed to behaving with integrity. Ultimately the power is truly in our own hands on this one. If the collective of players wants a better CSM we just have to support better candidates. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Mu'ad Diib The Mighty 35	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:20:00 - [981] - Quote Doctor Eezee wrote: Mu'ad Diib wrote: [quote=Little Brat] [i]. I also realise that by being readily identifiable in this way, other players have an absolute right to expect, from me, or for that matter any representative of the CSM, the highest and most ethical in game and RL behaviour. Why? Firstly, as a democratically elected representative there is a lot of responsibility on you to have the best interest of the people who gave you a mandate at heart and to act in a way that means that you are respected by others, so that in turn what you say is respected (as this will enable your constituency's views to be properly represented). Secondly, since you are a democratically elected representative it's my feeling that you should act in a way that is consummate with the responsibility that you hold. Acting in a way that is unethical or that lacks integrity makes anything that you advance as a view slightly suspect. Are they raising this because they really care? Or is this another ploy? Put simply, to be respected I think you have to respect others. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
OrangeRed Viziam Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:25:00 - [982] - Quote ~~Anybody~~ Nobody but Mittani!
Doctor Eezee GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 49	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:30:00 - [983] - Quote Mu'ad Diib wrote: Doctor Eezee wrote: Mu'ad Diib wrote: [quote=Little Brat] [i]. I also realise that by being readily identifiable in this way, other players have an absolute right to expect, from me, or for that matter any representative of the CSM, the highest and most ethical in game and RL behaviour. Why? Firstly, as a democratically elected representative there is a lot of responsibility on you to have the best interest of the people who gave you a mandate at heart and to act in a way that means that you are respected by others, so that in turn what you say is respected (as this will enable your constituency's views to be properly represented). Secondly, since you are a democratically elected representative it's my feeling that you should act in a way that is consummate with the responsibility that you hold. Acting in a way that is unethical or that lacks integrity makes anything that you advance as a view slightly suspect. Are they raising this because they really care? Or is this another ploy? Put simply, to be respected I think you have to respect others. I don't really think so. Clinton cheated on his wife, but was probably the best president in recent times. I couldn't care less about the personal lifes of politicians. I don't care if you order 10 whores to your house every night, as long as you do your job properly.
Grumpy Owly Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 180	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:39:00 - [984] - Quote Doctor Eezee wrote: Mu'ad Diib wrote: Doctor Eezee wrote: Mu'ad Diib wrote: [quote=Little Brat] [i]. I also realise that by being readily identifiable in this way, other players have an absolute right to expect, from me, or for that matter any representative of the CSM, the highest and most ethical in game and RL behaviour. Why? Firstly, as a democratically elected representative there is a lot of responsibility on you to have the best interest of the people who gave you a mandate at heart and to act in a way that means that you are respected by others, so that in turn what you say is respected (as this will enable your constituency's views to be properly represented). Secondly, since you are a democratically elected representative it's my feeling that you should act in a way that is consummate with the responsibility that you hold. Acting in a way that is unethical or that lacks integrity makes anything that you advance as a view slightly suspect. Are they raising this because they really care? Or is this another ploy? Put simply, to be respected I think you have to respect others. I don't really think so. Clinton cheated on his wife, but was probably the best president in recent times. I couldn't care less about the personal lifes of politicians. I don't care if you order 10 whores to your house every night, as long as you do your job properly. Actually that argument is just equatting similary to what Punktani does in game as player to what he does when operating in the capacity of a council member. As such I think you are simply misconstruing that Mu'ad is talking about his political integrity as a Council member. "All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems."
Scevvin Tri-gun Psychotic Tendencies. 4	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:53:00 - [985] - Quote First off, "Just Another Toon," you realize the irony of calling out an election of alt votes from an alt, right? Secondly, I would agree with you about the fact of his scamming and ganking are grounds of dismissal, if he were to push CCP to develop the game to make those mechanics easier and more widespread. As I see it, nothing of what he has proposed or done, as well as the rest of the CSM, have advocated or even hinted at providing gankers and scamming an easier way to carry about. Just because you probably got scammed by some goons does not mean you come and wtfrage. Hopefully you are familiar with the term "HTFU;" if not, google is your friend.
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 384	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:57:00 - [986] - Quote This thread still lives? And all because one person won't drop it I see. At this point there is only one obvious reason for it. He Mad Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Mu'ad Diib The Mighty 41	Posted - 2012.02.16 05:59:00 - [987] - Quote Doctor Eezee wrote: I don't care if you order 10 whores to your house every night, as long as you do your job properly. For me on a fundamental level it's about respect for the people who place their trust in me. You made the point that it's about doing your job properly. You're absolutely right. However if someone acts unethically or without integrity, then how can you trust them to act ethically and with integrity when advancing your views at the CSM? The fact is that you can't. I have a strong belief in the fact that if your life, (either within Eve or in RL) or your psyche generally is full of dark or negative influences and behaviours, some of this inevitably makes it through into other areas of your existence. Personally I act within the game in an ethical and responsible way. This mirrors how I live my life generally and how I am as a RL individual. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Grumpy Owly Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 181	Posted - 2012.02.16 06:03:00 - [988] - Quote Scevvin wrote: First off, "Just Another Toon," you realize the irony of calling out an election of alt votes from an alt, right? Secondly, I would agree with you about the fact of his scamming and ganking are grounds of dismissal, if he were to push CCP to develop the game to make those mechanics easier and more widespread. As I see it, nothing of what he has proposed or done, as well as the rest of the CSM, have advocated or even hinted at providing gankers and scamming an easier way to carry about. Just because you probably got scammed by some goons does not mean you come and wtfrage. Hopefully you are familiar with the term "HTFU;" if not, google is your friend. In defence of my own statements: Personally I said that it was his griefing and tolerance of botting in his own alliance that were at fault and reprehensable. I did not mention anything about valid game mechanics such as ganking or scamming. "All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems."
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 53	Posted - 2012.02.16 06:07:00 - [989] - Quote Mu'ad Diib wrote: Doctor Eezee wrote: I don't care if you order 10 whores to your house every night, as long as you do your job properly. For me on a fundamental level it's about respect for the people who place their trust in me. You made the point that it's about doing your job properly. You're absolutely right. However if someone acts unethically or without integrity, then how can you trust them to act ethically and with integrity when advancing your views at the CSM? The fact is that you can't.. The only "fact" is that you're unable to separate an in-game persona from a real, actual person. That's far more unhealthy and frightening than anything.
Mu'ad Diib The Mighty 44	Posted - 2012.02.16 07:02:00 - [990] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: The only "fact" is that you're unable to separate an in-game persona from a real, actual person. That's far more unhealthy and frightening than anything. With respect, that's not really the point I was making. I'm very clear about the difference. However what I was trying to say was that if someone plays the role within the game in an unethical way, how can be trusted to act ethically as part of the CSM? In terms of the difference between RL and the game, what I would say is that for someone to feel that unethical game play is acceptable, some aspect of their RL personality drives this, to a extent. The degree of this extent is the issue that we might disagree on. I'd happily concede that it might be as little as 5% or even 1% but the fact is when actors assume roles in films and theatre in RL, some aspect of them is present within the role. I feel this is probably also true in EVE. This is the point I was trying to get across. I hope that makes it clearer. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

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