Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

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Tux, Tackling Frigates:

I was thinking.. to make these frigates actually be used as tech 1 tacklers, why not give them a bonus more relating to their box their being put in?

Thoughts:

Increased warp speed (aking to interceptors, but not as much obviously)

% per level decrease in warp scrambler/web cap usage

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Originally by: Ithildin

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Many ships with 2 types of weapons systems are useless because thier damage output is so pathetic. Consider changing the bonus to cover both weapon systems.
Examples:

5% Damage Per level Small Hybrid Turret"

is changed to "5% Damage per level Small Hybrid Turret and Missiles"

The only thing you have to watch is rof bonuses. Perhaps instead of an rof bonus to the missile systems a damage bonus to both missiles and turrets. This would keep the Hawk and Sacriledge in check.

Nyxus

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Even though I carry great recentments against anyone voicing that the Caldari should be of any damage type (rather than limited to two types like the other two and a half races are (MOST Minnie ammo is exp/kin, however, those who aren't stand out greatly)) I support this.

I have longed for the Ares to become good, and a bonus such as this would end the Ares suckage. (On a similar note, 5% damage to missiles should ALSO be changed to missile and turret)
This should aply only to the bastards*, not to those genuinly favouring one of the weapon systems.

* Examples of "bastards": Raptor, Ares, Malediction, Hawk. That is, ships with a 50/50 weapon system and bonus.
* Examples of ships that AREN'T "bastards": Raven, Celestis, Rupture, etc.

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Well tbh I think the idea of getting a bonus to all 4 types of missiles is overpowered as well. But I am desperate at this point to bring life to some of the crappier ships.

It's easy to see what ships are useful - invariably they are the ships where the weapon bonuses apply to most of the weapons. "Half and Half" ships just suck. Period. Please make the weapon bonuses apply to ALL the weapons on a ship and give those ships a point to existing.

Nyxus

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Originally by: Ithildin

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Originally by: Ithildin

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Many ships with 2 types of weapons systems are useless because thier damage output is so pathetic. Consider changing the bonus to cover both weapon systems.
Examples:

5% Damage Per level Small Hybrid Turret"

is changed to "5% Damage per level Small Hybrid Turret and Missiles"

The only thing you have to watch is rof bonuses. Perhaps instead of an rof bonus to the missile systems a damage bonus to both missiles and turrets. This would keep the Hawk and Sacriledge in check.

Nyxus

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Even though I carry great recentments against anyone voicing that the Caldari should be of any damage type (rather than limited to two types like the other two and a half races are (MOST Minnie ammo is exp/kin, however, those who aren't stand out greatly)) I support this.

I have longed for the Ares to become good, and a bonus such as this would end the Ares suckage. (On a similar note, 5% damage to missiles should ALSO be changed to missile and turret)
This should aply only to the bastards*, not to those genuinly favouring one of the weapon systems.

* Examples of "bastards": Raptor, Ares, Malediction, Hawk. That is, ships with a 50/50 weapon system and bonus.
* Examples of ships that AREN'T "bastards": Raven, Celestis, Rupture, etc.

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Well tbh I think the idea of getting a bonus to all 4 types of missiles is overpowered as well. But I am desperate at this point to bring life to some of the crappier ships.

It's easy to see what ships are useful - invariably they are the ships where the weapon bonuses apply to most of the weapons. "Half and Half" ships just suck. Period. Please make the weapon bonuses apply to ALL the weapons on a ship and give those ships a point to existing.

Nyxus

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Hmm, a few examples of what could/should be done:

Ares
Ship: 5% to small hybrid turret, light missile and rocket damage per level and 5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
Interceptor: 5% reduced signature radius and 5% small hybrid turret and thermal missile damage per level.
- Effectively giving double boost to hybrid turrets and thermal missiles, but a single boost to regular missiles

Hawk
Hardpoints: -3 turrets, +2 launchers. It has 4 high slots.
Ship: <empty bonus slot>, and 5% missile launcher rate of fire
Assault Ship: +5% Shield Resistance, +10% missile velocity (ALL AFs have an AF-skill range bonus)
- Plain and simple removing turrets all together.

Heron*:
+5% Kinetic missile -> +10% missile velocity and small hybrid turret optimal range (it's a long range, 2 high slot 50/50 frigate, not a damage dealer... and widely proclaimed useless anyway)

Typhoon*:
+10% Large Projectile Turret optimal and missile velocity, and +5% large projectile turret and explosive missile damage.
- This is where things *might* get out of hand, though it certainly would stop the Typhoon from... sucking...

* The only two T1 Gemini ships I found that can be classified as "bastards"

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Originally by: JoCool

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Edited by: JoCool on 05/10/2005 17:26:55
Tuxford, don't discuss with french about ammo or anything else military related. Here for more French bashing

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Originally by: Ithildin

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Many ships with 2 types of weapons systems are useless because thier damage output is so pathetic. Consider changing the bonus to cover both weapon systems.
Examples:

5% Damage Per level Small Hybrid Turret"

is changed to "5% Damage per level Small Hybrid Turret and Missiles"

The only thing you have to watch is rof bonuses. Perhaps instead of an rof bonus to the missile systems a damage bonus to both missiles and turrets. This would keep the Hawk and Sacriledge in check.

Nyxus

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Hmm, a few examples of what could/should be done:

Ares
Ship: 5% to small hybrid turret, light missile and rocket damage per level and 5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
Interceptor: 5% reduced signature radius and 5% small hybrid turret and thermal missile damage per level.
- Effectively giving double boost to hybrid turrets and thermal missiles, but a single boost to regular missiles

Hawk
Hardpoints: -3 turrets, +2 launchers. It has 4 high slots.
Ship: <empty bonus slot>, and 5% missile launcher rate of fire
Assault Ship: +5% Shield Resistance, +10% missile velocity (ALL AFs have an AF-skill range bonus)
- Plain and simple removing turrets all together.

Heron*:
+5% Kinetic missile -> +10% missile velocity and small hybrid turret optimal range (it's a long range, 2 high slot 50/50 frigate, not a damage dealer... and widely proclaimed useless anyway)

Typhoon*:
+10% Large Projectile Turret optimal and missile velocity, and +5% large projectile turret and explosive missile damage.
- This is where things *might* get out of hand, though it certainly would stop the Typhoon from... sucking...

* The only two T1 Gemini ships I found that can be classified as "bastards"

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Originally by: Ithildin

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Many ships with 2 types of weapons systems are useless because thier damage output is so pathetic. Consider changing the bonus to cover both weapon systems.
Examples:

5% Damage Per level Small Hybrid Turret"

is changed to "5% Damage per level Small Hybrid Turret and Missiles"

The only thing you have to watch is rof bonuses. Perhaps instead of an rof bonus to the missile systems a damage bonus to both missiles and turrets. This would keep the Hawk and Sacriledge in check.

Nyxus

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Even though I carry great recentments against anyone voicing that the Caldari should be of any damage type (rather than limited to two types like the other two and a half races are (MOST Minnie ammo is exp/kin, however, those who aren't stand out greatly)) I support this.

I have longed for the Ares to become good, and a bonus such as this would end the Ares suckage. (On a similar note, 5% damage to missiles should ALSO be changed to missile and turret)
This should aply only to the bastards*, not to those genuinly favouring one of the weapon systems.

* Examples of "bastards": Raptor, Ares, Malediction, Hawk. That is, ships with a 50/50 weapon system and bonus.
* Examples of ships that AREN'T "bastards": Raven, Celestis, Rupture, etc.

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Originally by: JoCool

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Edited by: JoCool on 05/10/2005 17:26:55
Tuxford, don't discuss with french about ammo or anything else military related. Here for more French bashing

Now, on topic.

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Originally by: Forsch

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If giving more than 2 boni to a ship is an option, then I see no problem for the omen getting a +% dmg or optimal to pulse lasers. :)

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Originally by: Nafri

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Originally by: Forsch

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If giving more than 2 boni to a ship is an option, then I see no problem for the omen getting a +% dmg or optimal to pulse lasers. :)

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Ehh, wait yeah give it zealot damage

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Originally by: Nafri

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Ehh, wait yeah give it zealot damage

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Originally by: Tuxford

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I kind of want to see the Omen as the damage dealing ship and the Maller as the tanking ship. The problem is as you have, and many more have pointed out that Maller does everything better than Omen. Well the Omen should with good skills and the extra launcher slot do more damage than Maller but it just doesn¦t go far enough.

I haven¦t been really happy with how the Omen turned out. The other tier 2 combat cruisers all have a special gimmick. Caracal has it¦s missiles, and you might not like that they have no close range missiles or launchers but it makes it pretty unique. Vexor has it¦s drones and Stabber has it¦s speed. Omen is pretty much worse than Maller in every way except speed, mass and it¦s recently acquired only launcher slot Wink

I want to see Omen more suited for pulse lasers and damage but Maller for long range Beams. Keep in mind that I can't add a turret hp to the Omen.

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Originally by: Khaldorn Murino

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If you give the Omen 3 bonuses, then every other cruiser will have to have one to balance it out, will it not?

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Originally by: Nafri

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Omen is noway weaker then a caracal or stabber, so its balanced...

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Originally by: Clavius XIV

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Instead of adding a 3rd bonus to the Omen, why not just adjust its RoF bonus until the damage it does makes it different enough from the Maller? Make it 6% or 7% per level or whatever is needed so that folks who want damage pick Omen and those who want Tank pick Maller.

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Originally by: Nafri

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Omen is noway weaker then a caracal or stabber, so its balanced...

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Originally by: Tuxford

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I kind of want to see the Omen as the damage dealing ship and the Maller as the tanking ship. The problem is as you have, and many more have pointed out that Maller does everything better than Omen. Well the Omen should with good skills and the extra launcher slot do more damage than Maller but it just doesn¦t go far enough.

I haven¦t been really happy with how the Omen turned out. The other tier 2 combat cruisers all have a special gimmick. Caracal has it¦s missiles, and you might not like that they have no close range missiles or launchers but it makes it pretty unique. Vexor has it¦s drones and Stabber has it¦s speed. Omen is pretty much worse than Maller in every way except speed, mass and it¦s recently acquired only launcher slot

I want to see Omen more suited for pulse lasers and damage but Maller for long range Beams. Keep in mind that I can't add a turret hp to the Omen.

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Originally by: Nyxus

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Originally by: Nafri

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Omen is noway weaker then a caracal or stabber, so its balanced...

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Then why do I see Caracals used EVERYWHERE for low end NPCing and Stabbers for fast tackling in pvp?

Where do you see Omens? And what are they doing?

Omen needs to be differentiated from the Maller. An optimal bonus to pulses/beams or a tweaking upwards of the rof bonus would do this.

Nyxus

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