Tax rate is available to you while you are in system but you can see them all on the overview so you don't need to actually fly up to each one. I will cite technical complexity as the reason it isn't initially available to everyone / everywhere but I can also see an argument for exploration as being part of the PI gameplay anyway.

Re comments about not responding, give us some time, today has been a particularly rough day at CCP. We did have a meeting this morning to discuss the many ideas and comments in this thread and some points are being acting on already so hang tight.

POCOs need to be nameable - just like POS towers.

(They also need the ability to base taxes on standings, as has been suggested multiple times.)

Here is the problem I see, at first the low sec peeps will have a shortage of POCOs, then they will spend the next few weeks struggling to get some up only to have some pirate blow it up and put a high tax rate in place just for the tears. Then the real nightmare begins.

Some null sec alliance is going to figure out CCP has just offered them free isk to the extent not seen since the early moon goo days. The mechanic will look like this, find a few systems that offer good planets and then rush that solar system and its neighboring systems. The force will be well beyond the capabilities of local pirates and within two days all good planets and most others will have the official Goonswarm approved version of the POCO. THey will then set the taxes at such a point to extract most of the profit from PI, leaving just enough to keep their little PI slaves thinking hey have a chance.

Base a few hundred BS, HACS, etc. in the center system and anyone who messes with them dies, tell your null sec friends and enemies that this is your area, but you can have the next set of systems and BOOM free money. Amusingly the null sec alliances may able to manipulae prices of some PI materials by messing with tax rates on specific POCOs, pull bait and switches, by lowering a rate on a set of planets then raising them when people invest in them etc.

So basically we are all going to be working for our nullsec overlords. Guess the CSM is earning their paychecks.

One last thing if you go through with this, make low sec THE place for PI give it the highest rates of PI, basically flipping it with null sec so may at least you can create the LO SEC PI WARS.

POCOs need to be nameable - just like POS towers.

(They also need the ability to base taxes on standings, as has been suggested multiple times.)

1: Consider making rocket payloads a bit larger as an alternative.

Why not: Okay it's like this EVE Community - even though we should have started PI this way in the first place, we did it backwards and are now trying to fix it. And we need your help. We have a working code, but need additional input so that we just 'fracture' your game a little, instead of breaking it and further decrease our subscriber base... and do so just after one of the largest population drops in the games running history - which was so bad it caused Hilmar to openly appologize to all of you [[which was appreciated btw]]


CCP and Team Pi we know you need to address Planteary Interaction... but DO NOT give us a beta for you to tweak - I have no problem with increased risk... so long as I have the additional search/ informational tools to determine if that risk is worth taking.

Risk Is Good - but it needs the be coupled with knowledge to make it work right!!!

I wish there was a way to vote for you to be in charge of PI. All excellent points that would drastically improve PI (and use it as a template for fixing other stuff, like S&I).

Here is the problem I see, at first the low sec peeps will have a shortage of POCOs, then they will spend the next few weeks struggling to get some up only to have some pirate blow it up and put a high tax rate in place just for the tears. Then the real nightmare begins.

Some null sec alliance is going to figure out CCP has just offered them free isk to the extent not seen since the early moon goo days. The mechanic will look like this, find a few systems that offer good planets and then rush that solar system and its neighboring systems. The force will be well beyond the capabilities of local pirates and within two days all good planets and most others will have the official Goonswarm approved version of the POCO. THey will then set the taxes at such a point to extract most of the profit from PI, leaving just enough to keep their little PI slaves thinking hey have a chance.

Base a few hundred BS, HACS, etc. in the center system and anyone who messes with them dies, tell your null sec friends and enemies that this is your area, but you can have the next set of systems and BOOM free money. Amusingly the null sec alliances may able to manipulae prices of some PI materials by messing with tax rates on specific POCOs, pull bait and switches, by lowering a rate on a set of planets then raising them when people invest in them etc.

So basically we are all going to be working for our nullsec overlords. Guess the CSM is earning their paychecks.

One last thing if you go through with this, make low sec THE place for PI give it the highest rates of PI, basically flipping it with null sec so may at least you can create the LO SEC PI WARS.

1. WH space - I don't see PI done in WH space with the intention of selling it on the market. It's used for POS fuel and manufacturing in the WH. PI goods made in WH's have no significant effect on the market. PITA to get a CO installed, but once done, business as usual, and no change to income.

2. Null sec - I think, don't know, that much of the PI in null space is intended for the use by the corps/alliances in null sec, also for POS fuel and manufacturing. Certainly more gets to the market than in WH, but I really question how significant it is. Gut feeling is that it's not real significant. I think it discourages ninja PI, since it's pretty much agreed that few would allow non blue to use a CO. It makes low sec more attractive than null sec, since you can't launch all you produce.

3. PCO's in low sec - very poor return on investment, especially given the risk of loss. They are not worth putting up, not worth attacking, and not worth defending if they were. Launch stuff from your command center, haul it to high sec and produce the higher tier stuff on a production planet. If you disagree about the return on investment, do the math.

4. High sec - basically unchanged. Tax rates are currently insignificant, and doubling them doesn't change that much, especially since it's pretty universally agreed that the PI prices will go up.


The stated goal of allowing getting income from CO taxation - don't see how the implementation as described achieves this goal, in any sec status system.

The stated goal of increasing player interaction - in WH and null, don't see much change here from the current system. In high sec, player interaction is irrelevant, I don't see the risk nor reward changing much in high sec. Low sec - since I don't see CO's being put up much, the player interaction goes down. You can't camp a CO that doesn't exist. Not that many people camp CO's currently, never seen a CO camp in months of doing PI. So I think player interaction is either unchanged or decreased depending on the sec status of the system.

Tax rate is available to you while you are in system but you can see them all on the overview so you don't need to actually fly up to each one. I will cite technical complexity as the reason it isn't initially available to everyone / everywhere but I can also see an argument for exploration as being part of the PI gameplay anyway.

Re comments about not responding, give us some time, today has been a particularly rough day at CCP. We did have a meeting this morning to discuss the many ideas and comments in this thread and some points are being acting on already so hang tight.

I agree with the majority of your points, but i gotta be honest....

If they take your advice and design their features your way, they'll never make it out of forum discussions ever. They will design, implement, and iterate around in circles endlessly as sentiments give and tug, and we all hem and haw.

Sooner or later, you gotta put that new swingset down in the sand box to see what your monkeys are going to do with it.

This, this, and this. Doesn't need to be a huge expansion. There still needs to be an overwhelming advantage for space ports / customs. But CC should be able to hold and launch, say, 2000m3. Even 1500 would be nice. 500 is just silly.

It seems to me that this is indeed a better system and one that definitely fits better with EVE's universe, but that it should have been implemented when PI was introduced. Now that the economy and the player base are used to the current system, simply removing all the custom offices in low, null, and WH space strikes me as a terrible idea. I like the idea of player controlled custom offices. I just tend to agree with many posts here that at this point it should be a gradual shift towards that and that simply removing all the existing NPC custom offices would make the switch more painful then it needed to be.

I read through the first 10 pages of comments or so and didn't see anything about a question that has been eating at me:
How many customs offices would each corporation be able to control? Would there even be a limit?
My apologies if this was answered somewhere and I missed it.

i cant belive this is something you have worked on for a while CCP owen. this is a badly thought out structure driven boring activity, rather than just a boring activity. started offlining pos's already cos theres no way currently to absorb the extra costs involved. glad i have 3 months worth of fuel stored for 6 towers. i now have 18months for the 1 that will stay.

i just dont see why you at ccp are always trying to **** over the smaller guys/corps/alliances. this is directly what your doing here, have no doubt about it.

Tax rate is available to you while you are in system but you can see them all on the overview so you don't need to actually fly up to each one. I will cite technical complexity as the reason it isn't initially available to everyone / everywhere but I can also see an argument for exploration as being part of the PI gameplay anyway.

Re comments about not responding, give us some time, today has been a particularly rough day at CCP. We did have a meeting this morning to discuss the many ideas and comments in this thread and some points are being acting on already so hang tight.

It should be possible to search for them through the Science and Industry window - but you should only be able to see POCOs that you are allowed to use.

By limiting the S&I window searching to only the POCOs that you qualify for, an organization that wishes to "fly by night" and keep a low profile could simply restrict usage of the POCO to their closest friends (or just their corp members). Their POCO would not show up on the S&I screen and in order for someone to find the POCO they would have to fly out to the planet's customs office location and look (just like a modern POS). This would give security to the POCO similar to that of existing POS towers in that you would have to survey the system regularly to find POCOs that don't show up in the S&I window.

I don't believe that POCOs should show up on the overview unless on-grid, but their warp-in points should (just like moons - the moons are on the overview, but the towers are not unless you are on-grid).

The S&I window would need a filter for "current solar system", "current constellation", "current region" - just like when you search for lab slots.

This idea make low sec even worse, ruins an activity a lot of Eve players enjoyed, risks messing up a lot of the Eve ecconomy and shows how little CCP actually accepts the nature of the players in its own game. The profit motive and alturistic nature that CCP expects to be present in the wasteland of low sec doesn't exist! The folks there are going to blow up anything not defended and drive the few remaining residents of low sec out (maybe entirely out of Eve).

I'd certainly consider setting up POCO structures as a means of generating an income. I think others will too.

C.

So to the critics that say I am just being negative here is how you fix this idea.

1. Null sec and WH's work as planned.
2. Structures have to be "serviced" every 30 days by the owners or the shields and structure drop to 0 and be single shot popped.
3. High sec taxes can rise but only after the correct numbers have been determined after real study, not just a lazy doubling.
4. Low sec CO belong to the pirate faction dominant in the system they are in. To access them you have to work out your NPC pirate issues.
5. Rockets get a lot bigger and you are allowed to drop supplies to the planet.
6. Rocket launches and orbital deliveres happen at the launch facilities, not the command center.
7. I can hack a CO and steal whats inside in WH and Null, I can in low sec but I have to fight off an NPC pirate spawn to do it.

Do that and I think I can endorse your product or service.

Issler

Like POS's it will be unlimited - though with POS's there is a maintenance element that does not exist with POCO's

So POCO spamming will supplant the POS Spamming of old.

By "POS spamming of old", are you referring to when POS count was married to sov mechanics? I don't see your connection.

This is exactly why I've continued to run for the CSM to try and make CCP consider the "little guy". The solo player, the little indy corp or alliance. Clearly someone in the CSM needs to advocating for that segement of the pilots of Eve because this is another example of how CCP just doesn't get it!