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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1433
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Posted - 2013.05.09 11:44:00 -
[91] - Quote
Looks fantastic, and I love being able to run it continuously.
However, I think having it run every time you enter a system or undock really detracts from the feature. I was only on the test server for about 30 minutes and it got old really really fast. Besides, I don't think that information should be spoon fed to anyone. If they're not consciously turning the scanner on, they shouldn't be getting the information. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
114
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Posted - 2013.05.09 11:48:00 -
[92] - Quote
Tanaka Aiko wrote:Someone asked me an interesting question ; with this new scanner, as it can check new things every seconds, you should be able to know when a new wormhole appear on your system without doing anything (I can't test that, but on theory it should from what I understand). This seems a bit OP (but on the same level as the grav -> ano change... on the other side), did CCP though about it?
Well you also have to remember that you would need to be looking in the direction the new hole would open in order to see it appear in space, unless you happen to be spinning your camera the whole time :) I think thats a good balance to it though is that you can only see new ids pop up in view on the camera.
If you are on the last planet in the system this may be easier to do though. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
273
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Overall, I like the overlay. I do, however, have two complaints:
1. I'm on my way through null, looking for a specific site, say, only Hubs and Heavens. Whenever I enter the system, the scanner runs, popping up all the anomalies and signatures. If there's 10-20 of them in the system, it's a royal pain in the behind to find the one I'm looking for. I should either be able to filter out unwanted results (say, only displaying hubs, ice sites, signatures) or get all the results on a list like we did with ship scanner now.
2. I'm scanning signatures, get a 100% hit on wormhole, yet the scanner still shows 5% signal strength. The overlay should display the site as 100%.
Other than that, I'm only slightly annoyed by the radial menu, but I guess I'll get used to it. |
ChaseTheLasers
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
48
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:15:00 -
[94] - Quote
Please don't remove the list of results - it's the only sane way of bookmarking and warping to sites at any sort of reasonable speed. Moving the camera around constantly to find a site just brings us back to fighting the UI which you've been working so hard to improve over the years.
A few things:
All results from the on-board scanner should show on the list. Currently I can see things in space that are not on the list. This includes anything that is not at 100%
I can't see an obvious way to arrange the list results like before. I should be able to click a header for the sig IDs for example, and have them ascend / descend for all the sections.
Has there been any tests on how this is going to alter wormhole mechanics? I've done a few tests and some areas are quite different now (finding ships in sites for example). I know the main goal here is to improve the scanner, but the knock on effect isn't as small as you'd think.
Some sites appear 'together' on the 3D scanner and selecting them is hard.
Selecting multiple results on the list by shift clicking barely changes the colour - it's hard to know if they're actually selected. The only obvious change is the arrow on the right hand side and its background colour.
You can't right click + align to a site from the list. Really needed for when taking fleets into wormhold sites and the alpha can be high.
The solar system map view only shows anoms / sigs when they're clicked in the list, otherwise they're hidden. They should all show but the selected one should be highlighted.
You can't interact with known sites on the solar system map - no right click + warp to / bookmark and so on...
I can't speak for nullsec, but some of these changes are a bit detrimental to how things currently are in wormholes. And we all saw at Fanfest how much we like wormholes ;) |
Raxlaa
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:23:00 -
[95] - Quote
Is there any reason the list of signatures found during the system scan isn't then displayed on the system map screen with the same info for each site as can be seen in space? |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
869
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:31:00 -
[96] - Quote
giving a rough direction of where to look for stuff is cool, but its mostly useless once i am in the scanning interface itself, because the second i click to get in the map, that information is gone We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
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Aprudena Gist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:36:00 -
[97] - Quote
The current d-scan is about 10 times more useful and friendly then this **** get rid of it. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1097
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:54:00 -
[98] - Quote
Faulx wrote:*moves his hands together as though they're trying to put two pieces of a puzzle together that just wont fit* The handwavium answer for everything: Magnets.... or Probes... or Magnetic Probes... also see... Jumping the Shark
You're an immortal clone pilot in a universe that features, among other things, FTL travel and instant communication across any distance. Try not to think too hard about it. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession
160
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
Octoven wrote: You CAN still use the list view after they remove it, you will just need probes out to do it and anoms and sigs will only show on the list if they are in scan range of a probe. He is talking about removing the anoms from the list view without probes out.
Gee, would be swell if I had probes on all my ships but I don't. You went from stateing that they aren't taking the list view away to now saying this. Just admit when you are wrong. |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
228
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:31:00 -
[100] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Does the overlay change once I scanned stuff to 100 percent?
Not in the version on SISI now. It's possible that feature may make it into Odyssey but we cannot promise that at this time. Gilbaron wrote: Do I still get a list?
The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.
Can we at least get the scan results added to the overview? This is a tool that users must already learn.
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Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
163
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:32:00 -
[101] - Quote
mynnna wrote:You're an immortal clone pilot in a universe that features, among other things, FTL travel and instant communication across any distance. Try not to think too hard about it. Throughout the history of this game, there has been a great deal of effort spent making things at least sound plausible. The notion that someday technology might advance enough for FTL travel and communication is not beyond the realm of believability. The notion that people who make their living among the stars would use a complicated system of probes to "locate" something they have, practically, already found is ludicrous.
The minute CCP lets basic mathematics like this slide is the minute I know this game is no longer about science fiction. For me, this is as ill an omen for the future of Eve as "Pay to WIn". *shrugs* Science Amongst the Stars: Project Compass http://truestories.eveonline.com/ideas/908-science-amongst-the-stars-project-compass |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1828
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
Issues
I logged in while in space. The scanner did run. I saw no sites in space. But when I opened the scanner there were some shown in the list.
If I have the system scanner open and jump, upon arriving in the new system the list does not populate despite sites showing in space. I got to close and open it to get the list to populate.
Signatures do not show on the list at all.
The list columns cannot be re-sized.
Note: If you get rid of the list players will start keeping their own lists on a piece of paper. That way as you look around you can write down the identifier of each site, and reference the list as you go to insure you get them all. If players do start using pencil and paper to keep track of in-game information, will you consider the feature to be a success?
When I went to the solar system map there was a line extending from my ship through the sun and out the the other side extending away from the sun to a distance equal to my distance from the sun.
I launched a probe focus formation. I wanted to resize the range but their size in the list did not change. I had to hit "analyze" to see the new size. We need to see the size when we change it, not after we set it wrong.
Warning to everyone: When moving probes the function of "shift" has been reversed. Holding it down allows you to move one probe. No shift held down: you move or resize them all.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
16
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:58:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.
NO!
Jumping jimmy jehosepheth NO!
Look, I like this new system. I think you all have done a great job so far. Some things need to be polished a bit, but overall two big thumbs up from me. However, if I'm in a higher class wormhole and there are two dozen anoms, I want to be able to count them without panning around and not being sure if I got that one that's 15ish degrees above planet 7 or not after spinning the camera around. Human beings make lists for a reason. They make it easy to sort and process information. |
Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
76
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:59:00 -
[104] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Does the overlay change once I scanned stuff to 100 percent?
Not in the version on SISI now. It's possible that feature may make it into Odyssey but we cannot promise that at this time. Gilbaron wrote: Do I still get a list?
The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it. Can we at least get the scan results added to the overview? This is a tool that users must already learn.
Results should have an info pane, imo.
This would be an obvious feature for new players, make use of more graphical presentation, could be hidden for people not wanting to use it, and would not clutter up the overview.
Also, system scan sweeps can dobe in a pod. Not sure if intended. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
434
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 14:05:00 -
[105] - Quote
The effect and feature is nice in general, but the scanner should not scan automatically after jumping or undocking, only if you have the sensor overlay enabled. Most people are not interested in sigs or anomalies most of the time and it gets annoying quickly. . |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
971
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 14:22:00 -
[106] - Quote
It would be nice if after you log in it remembered weather or not you had it set to perma run. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Ethan Revenant
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
57
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:23:00 -
[107] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.
This is a bad plan. Replacing a simple list with spinning around in space noting things down as you see them might look pretty, but it's a huge functionality downgrade. |
Belautis
Millard Innovation Inc The 20 Minuters
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:30:00 -
[108] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:So no more sneaking into wormholes anymore since the new sigs will be visable without probes out. Also make sure you check the new overlay with a w-space system with 40+ anoms and 30+ sigs. Will be fun finding stuff there without a list.
I guess whoever came up with this one, hardly every used the old system tbh. Or has ever set foot in a wormhole ;).
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
435
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 14:44:00 -
[109] - Quote
Ethan Revenant wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it. This is a bad plan. Replacing a simple list with spinning around in space noting things down as you see them might look pretty, but it's a huge functionality downgrade.
This. The in-space display is completely useless for getting an overview of everything that is in the system. We absolutely need the list! . |
Surumi Fujikawa
Helghast Industries
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 14:59:00 -
[110] - Quote
The overlay is awesome looking and sounding and adds even more sci fi feel.
There is no reason to have convoluted tools, the best scanners can get their probes into the formations they need in seconds anyway, just now 95% of us can use the various types of scanners without having to watch 15 tutorial videos and learning a whole bunch of mathy stuff. People who are practiced will still be faster than noobs anyways.
But about the overlay, The only problem i have with it is having to scan the sky looking for the icons that represent the places i'd like to go. With the Old system scanner i have a list and i just read the list. Its boring but i can see everything in less than a second. With the overlay i have to slowly pan the camera around in a search pattern to find the anomalies or signatures. It gets more complicated when the icon colors match the background nebula colors, like in minmatar or gallente space.
I was thinking you could just have the icons kind of hug the edge of the screen when not directly on it, but that might be a bit cluttery. As long as you could toggle them off when you arent interested it should be fine. |
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Tilly Delnero
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:00:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it. Please don't, this system is extremely cumbersome so far. Taking the easy to sort list out seems like overcomplicating things by trying to make them simpler, if you catch my meaning.
Also, please stop the scanner from running every single undock and jump. It is exceptionally annoying that this horrible 'feature' can't be completely disabled for those of us that don't do exploration 23/7. |
Ritsum
Ubiquitous Hurt
185
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 15:07:00 -
[112] - Quote
I enjoy the skybox and such for basic ship scanner anoms. But I think it should not show the anoms that you would normally have to use probes to even take a look at. I know it just shows a rough location and nothing else, but it removes a big part of the scanning process.
Enter system. Warp to safe/unsafe. Drop Probe/probes. Cloak/align. Scan for sigs.
That whole process is now removed just by showing the sigs that are in system through that system scan when you enter system.
Sure it removes a bit of the hassle but it also removes a lot of risk since now you don't have to risk it just to check if there are sigs in system.
I believe for now it should only show the things that you can find now through the ship scanner without probes. Play EvE how you want to play it and do not let others dictate how you play. Evolve your playstyle to protect yourself from others! Even in "PVE", "PVP" is there, lurking in the shadows. |
Skawl
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
34
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:36:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Does the overlay change once I scanned stuff to 100 percent?
Not in the version on SISI now. It's possible that feature may make it into Odyssey but we cannot promise that at this time. Gilbaron wrote: Do I still get a list?
The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.
While an admirable goal, removing the list is a really bad idea unless you can find a way of overcoming these hurdles:
1) With the map closed (normal space view) I only have about 1/3 of my screen actually available for looking at space by the time local, intel, fleet, overview, watchlist etc are accounted for.
2) With the map open it wont give us enough feedback about the scan results. Hovering over the blips we get in the map view is unreliable (hard to hover the right object in a cluster without zooming, sometimes doesn't display tool tip at all) and, if I remember correctly, doesn't show information about the sig ID making co-ordination with other probers difficult without constantly switching in and out of map view to hover over the sig in space view.
3) The list view is really useful for heavy use probers (i.e. living in a WH) as it allows copy + paste out to a 3rd party tool to share info among corp members. Removing this ability won't stop people sharing scan results but would make it even more of a PITA than it already is.
I love the aesthetic of the new look scanner but in it's current state I don't think it can replace the list. |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction. Transmission Lost
430
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 15:43:00 -
[114] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Ueberlisk wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: The sensor overlay finds cosmic anomalies with 100% accuracy (just like the onboard scanner) and shows you the rough location of cosmic signatures so you know to drop your probes.
Can you confirm that system scanner shows or does not show SHIP signatures? Screw the pve :). It does not show ship signatures or similar. Only PVE sites are being shown.
I'd like to see how this could be elaborated on to show pings of ships.
Maybe even to replace local eventually (yes I said it) Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Texty
State War Academy Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 15:58:00 -
[115] - Quote
Signatures often cluster around the sun and it's too bright there. I'd really appreciate it if we could just manage stuff via lists and map view.
Why is CCP all of a sudden denying list UIs? I also remember CCP Soundwave saying at Fanfest, "... an expansion based on lists would be something like EVE online tax returns". Well, that's actually what EVE is imo and many of us like it that way.
IIRC at Alliance Tournament 9, a player commentator named Ravy? or Revi? or... I'm not sure but that guy said something like (not exactly but almost) "If I could play the whole game through spreadsheets, I'd be perfectly fine with it." Of course not all players are like that but I'm pretty sure he isn't a rare exception. The new overlay is nice but many players are just comfortable with the efficiency those lists provide. Please don't take them away. |
Shiuri
1
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:58:00 -
[116] - Quote
The in-space "signatures" are insanely large compared to other in-space items (planets, belts, etc...) and so are their tooltips, please reduce the size of both.
Signature tooltips should instantly hide when I click somewhere else. They should also try to avoid overlaying other items in space, perhaps displaying on the opposite side of the signature, although this wouldn't be that much of an issue if they instantly hid.
Having "probe-able" signatures show up in the scan definitely seems to be an "easy-mode" feature. It will be much easier to pinpoint and probe down those items, and it makes exploration trivial since you can simply warp into a system to see what's available.
As many others have said, please do not remove the signature list if at all possible, it is quite useful. |
Ammzi
Boob Heads Test Alliance Please Ignore
1350
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:05:00 -
[117] - Quote
So I probe down a site to 100 % and it remains not-warpable on my scan overlay:
http://i.imgur.com/wuzHRS1.jpg (notice CGY signature)
is this intended? quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Senji Vuran
4 You Blueprints Lensmen of the Galactic Patrol
3
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:11:00 -
[118] - Quote
I like it!
I agree with additional/consistant settings (ideally persisted server-side per-character): - [checkbox] Continuously scan? If un-checked, the on-board scanner to trigger it would be required. - [checkbox] Automatically scan when entering a system? - [checkbox] Show full scan graphics? If un-checked either no sweep graphics, or reduced.
Durzel wrote:In addition to signatures not staying at 100% once scanned down, the in-space overlay does not update as you scan the signature out - so you end up with an unknown signature in space that you warp to, and you end up some distance off of where it is shown in-space.
It should update to reflect the current scan strength as you scan it down with probes, and move accordingly so that when you warp to it you actually do go to that signature (like you do with 100% anomolies).
+1 for updating the overlay dynamically +1 for fixing the regression.
IMO it seems odd that my ships on-board computer wouldn't remember ALL of the sigs, (even if they aren't 100%), but I can understand balance >> reality for this.
Ethan Revenant wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it. This is a bad plan. Replacing a simple list with spinning around in space noting things down as you see them might look pretty, but it's a huge functionality downgrade.
+1. |
Contik Ardman
xell network seven V.e.G.A.
2
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:13:00 -
[119] - Quote
- An option for saving the On/Off state of the Sensor Overlay perma-scan across logins would be nice. I'd like Eve to remember that I want to run it permanently and have it enabled when I log in the next time. Currently I have to manually enable perma-scanning.
- An option to turn Sensor Overlay off altogether would be nice, too.
- I'd like off-screen anomalies to show up with an icon, for example at the screen's border. Just because I'm looking this way shouldn't mean that I miss an anomaly.
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jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
196
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:39:00 -
[120] - Quote
Disclaimer before I get nasty: I think this is cool and about 80% of the way to being an AWESOME feature.
There are some issues in how it works and some issues CCP needs to think about.
1. The animation does get old, and as a w-space resident I'm going to have it going constantly. It would be nice if I could get the info without the perpetual sweep effect. It started to make me a little motion-sick after a while, and I'm not particularly prone to motion sickness.
2. The list is a tricky issue, but we should have one for the reasons that everyone has already said. We NEED a list for anoms, as the old onboard scanner gave us. I'm torn as to whether the list should include the sigs as well, because on one hand it makes constructing a signature list very convenient (and yes this matters a lot in w-space) but on the other hand it makes it in some ways too convenient, especially with the sig-naming-convention thing where sigs that spawn after DT have noticeably different letter codes. Also see (3)
3. Updating and sigwatch and ganks. This is going to be long, but I implore you to read it.
Right now, one of the primary methods of finding PvP in W-space is to chain-roll your static. This finds you PvP in two critical ways:
a. You cycle through many systems very rapidly, so if a system is dead you don't have to waste time scanning your way down a chain to find something that may or may not be there.
b. Your prey may not notice that you have opened into their system, giving you a crucial element of surprise. The primary mechanics of w-space rotate around denial of intel. No local, dscan dependance, etc. The ideal way (from an attacker's perspective) for someone to notice your presence in a w-space system is when you tackle them as the fleet lands. Ideally, they shouldn't even know that your wormhole is in their system until they've already been podded.
As the overlay is right now, in the current sisi build, (b) still works most of the time. Sure, if they happen to see it spawn in space that's annoying, but they have to have the camera pointing at it or notice that it's new and stuff. It makes it easier for someone who is vigilant, but someone who isn't will probably get caught all the same. Fine. It will probably cost us maybe one out of three surprise attacks and that's not ideal, but I can see the logic and I'm willing to accept that someone will occasionally see us coming by sheer dumb luck.
Potential problem 1: The list. If the list produced by the continuous scan includes signatures, then it will be VERY easy to spot a new one. Just ignoring all existing signatures would be enough, which is of course what we do now but with probes, which we have to manually cycle. Automating the process makes it too easy. I think the list needs to include anoms, but for this reason alone I think it's worth NOT having signatures in that list.
Potential problem 2: The relationship between the overlay and scan results. Let me give you a hypothetical. You scan out every sig in a system, and every result on the overlay is a nice green diamond. Then you warp to some convenient outer planet or deep-safe and point your camera towards the nice cluster of green diamonds at the core. Then you see something orange. Sure, you might not know immediately that it's a WH, but you know SOMETHING spawned and you need to react to it. I'm actually in favor of NOT linking the two, and similarly not allowing us to "ignore" overlay hits from space. I think that would completely obliterate this particular element of surprise, and that would be detrimental to w-space gameplay. Yes, there are other elements of surprise, but right now, in an era when most w-space residents are relatively cautious and often try to crash every link to their system before engaging in any PvE, this could reduce risk by too much.
4. It would be nice if the anom hits also showed up in your solar system map. You can right now do this manually by initiating and cancelling warp to each one, so having it just do it automatically seems reasonable.
5. Ending on a positive note, I just wanted to say that this is going to be a tremendous boost to finding out where potential targets are in space, if you are already adept with d-scan. It will take me mere seconds to find targets when I jump into a new system now. This partially offsets some of the things I noted above, but I would say that my cautions are still very much valid. If they know that a new wormhole has spawned instantly when I jump through it (or when I scan it down to 100%, never totally clear on what causes the K162 to spawn), even if it only takes me ten seconds to track them down, they will probably have initiated warp already. |
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