dumbing down eve one patch at a time :\

dumbing down eve one patch at a time :\

The sensor overlay finds cosmic anomalies with 100% accuracy (just like the onboard scanner) and shows you the rough location of cosmic signatures so you know to drop your probes.

dumbing down eve one patch at a time :\

Oh no, they removed annoying busywork, Eve is being dumbed down!

I guess you guys are the same kind of people that opposed warp to zero as well.

The sensor overlay finds cosmic anomalies with 100% accuracy (just like the onboard scanner) and shows you the rough location of cosmic signatures so you know to drop your probes.

i have to reluctantly agree. not that i was a big fan of the old scan mechanics, but anyone who denies that complexity is a major appeal of EVE is delusional. can we try and uphold this complexity somehow? i feel like we're two add-ons away from the proverbial I WIN button...

Can you confirm that system scanner shows or does not show SHIP signatures? Screw the pve :).

Now maybe you could argue for dumbing down if it removes more experienced players (or players who look on the deep space probe scanning site) being able to make educated guesses and prioritize signature scanning based on the base sensor strength, but somehow I doubt that.

Call me elitist or not but I've always thought that experienced players in sandbox environment should get advantage in these kinds of things that require at least some ground work to get advantage of.

Does it label what group the signatures belong to or is it just a rough pointer to show there are at least some kind of sites in the system?

Can you confirm that system scanner shows or does not show SHIP signatures? Screw the pve :).

It just shows anoms and signatures, not ships. However you can use it to find what people are in those anoms much faster than was possible with the old system.

Does the overlay change once I scanned stuff to 100 percent?

Do I still get a list?

Not in the version on SISI now. It's possible that feature may make it into Odyssey but we cannot promise that at this time.


The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

As seen at Fanfest!

Does this mean it will show new WH sigs as well?

Great.... Now for all of us who couldn't make it to Iceland (and were working during the live streams, including Saturday) could somebody please please upload at least the keynote to youtube.

Thanks

Soden

Since it shows all sigs, I'd say yes.

So, if I'm understanding this right, we'll have to move the camera around to spot all the sites once the old list is removed? That could be a bit awkward, particularly for the all of us who have a screen covered in windows. ;)

I kinda agree that this does sound rather awkward, the list presented info at a single glance. If I have yaw and pitch my ship camera around to find what I am looking for then, that seems a little daft.

I can only pray that the real reason for removing the list is to hinder bottling, rather that implying that we can't handle both an overlay view and a list view of the same data.

EVE should be hard. Some people suck at scanning. That is actually a good thing. All the scanning changes are removing the difference between a competent player and a pathetic one. Call it busy work if you will, but a competent player can do it fast, and the difference in player skill makes EVE a better place.

I have the feeling that this is to cater to the blue donut nullbears who don't bother learning anything about EVE other than farming sites (in loadouts assembled by their alliance) and pushing whatever buttons their FC tells them to (also in free loadouts.) Wouldn't want to strain their poor poor brains.

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

As seen at Fanfest!

It runs once automatically every time you enter a system (undocking, jumping, bridging, whatever) so that you can get a glimpse of what's out there to find.

OP says it'll show you where the sites are. If you're in map mode, you'll see them all in space with their rough locations. No more messing with spheres, circles, double-results. Worrying about not having a list making this too hard is the last thing to worry about. I seem to recall something about sites showing on the overview as well? Maybe from fanfest?

So now it no longer takes probes to find out whether or not a wormhole has spawned in a system because it'll just pop up on your scanning overlay. That's an awful shame. I can't say I'm looking forward to that terrain change.

You won't know it's a wormhole if it shares the same % strength as other sigs. You will know something spawned, as long as you keep spinning your ship in space to see new ones.

Is there any plans to have your scan filter apply to your discovery scanner? If I am just after signatures then a system with a ton of anomalies is making it rather difficult to see where I need to probe down.

Just me or is it a PITA if there are multiple Anomalies behind each other?
There is allways one i can't select.
http://i.imgur.com/RVvuoRx.png

In this example i can't select the hidden site. I allways get the mouse over effect from the Ano.

You can.

http://i.imgur.com/zqZJc2S.png

Click the top button on the radial and it'll go away.

First problem: its suppose to show us what is in the system, but in reality only shows us info about what direction the camera is focusing on, we have to look 360 to see whats out there, so i basically have to spin my view 360-¦ every time I jump to system to see whats there, like you do with targets. shows us some small symbols of the anomalies we can't see, in the edges of my screen and if I press them move the focus of the camera to them or something

You'll need to drop probes and start scanning to get the signature type, the results in the sensor overlay work much like the results from a single deep space probe.

what are the factors for the initial signal strength , and the range of signal done by on-board scanner??

For DSP, the signal strength helps us to pre-determined the type of signals.
How the new on board scanner can facilitate this function?

Cross posting cus the features cross...
-I can no longer center the camera on celestials by clicking on them in the map view. This makes getting the camera to work they way I want difficult.

I kinda agree that this does sound rather awkward, the list presented info at a single glance. If I have to yaw and pitch my ship camera around to find what I am looking for then, that seems a little daft.

I can only pray that the real reason for removing the list is to hinder bottling, rather than implying that we can't handle both an overlay view and a list view of the same data.

The scanner has not changed as you no it now. You CAN still open your ship scanner and hit analyze and get a list of all anomalies (and if you have probes out) Cosmic signatures too like you can now. The discovery scanner allows people to choose a visual way of doing that instead of a list. You can still do either or though depending on how you like to scan. Nothing is being taken away, only added.

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay.

Most ******** plan in the known universe. A list of signatures is much preferred over waggling my camera around in circles to see where sigs are visually. I quite honestly could not care any less what direction the sig is in I only need to know what it is and whether i can warp to it or not and that info is much more easily shown in a list.

That is not what Fozzie said..

Why would anyone complain about them removing the list scanner? This is obviously a much faster and easier way to find what you need:

http://i.imgur.com/M0OPipD.png

Good luck finding anyone before they warp out!

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

Here's a few things you may not have thought of:

From a mathematical perspective, our ships "knowing" the position in the sky of a signature would allow us to pinpoint the position of a signature simply by warping from one side of the solar system to the other (using parallax). Even just dropping one probe and getting a "distance to target" would pinpoint the signature. The whole idea behind probes is that they use Trilateration which uses distance only. Once you have a pair of angles to go with a distance, pinpointing is very easy. Basically, you're breaking "Verisimilitude" by allowing us to see the sigs before we've pinpointed them, because no one in their right mind would use 7 probes do what 1 probe and a ship scanner can.


Furthermore, the "Signal strength" values in the tool-tips are too truncated, you need to show precision out to at least 2 decimal places (the lowest being 1.25%). Also it should be called "Signature Strength". "Signal Strength" is what % your at while scanning.



If you remove the list view of the scanner window, you will be making it unbelievably difficult to use. The list should still be there, and clicking on an element of the list should cause the "tracking" behavior currently avaible in the directional scanner. Sometimes more things to learn is more ways to learn, which is a good thing, not a bad one.

If you remove the list view of the scanner window, you will be making it unbelievably difficult to use. The list should still be there, and clicking on an element of the list should cause the "tracking" behavior currently avaible in the directional scanner. Sometimes more things to learn is more ways to learn, which is a good thing, not a bad one.

Its the same overwhelming amount of information its just being displayed in a 3D way instead of a 2D way. I fail to see how having this information compiled in a list helps you to find who is where any faster.

Scanner:
Looks cool, but a lot of the 'hits' are hard to spot, I'd like to see some sort of arrows on the edges of the screen if something was found but is off-screen.

Someone asked me an interesting question ; with this new scanner, as it can check new things every seconds, you should be able to know when a new wormhole appear on your system without doing anything (I can't test that, but on theory it should from what I understand). This seems a bit OP (but on the same level as the grav -> ano change... on the other side), did CCP though about it?

*moves his hands together as though they're trying to put two pieces of a puzzle together that just wont fit*

The handwavium answer for everything:

Magnets....

or Probes...

or Magnetic Probes...

also see... Jumping the Shark

You CAN still use the list view after they remove it, you will just need probes out to do it and anoms and sigs will only show on the list if they are in scan range of a probe. He is talking about removing the anoms from the list view without probes out.

Not in the version on SISI now. It's possible that feature may make it into Odyssey but we cannot promise that at this time.


The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

You're an immortal clone pilot in a universe that features, among other things, FTL travel and instant communication across any distance. Try not to think too hard about it.

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

Can we at least get the scan results added to the overview? This is a tool that users must already learn.

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

So no more sneaking into wormholes anymore since the new sigs will be visable without probes out.
Also make sure you check the new overlay with a w-space system with 40+ anoms and 30+ sigs. Will be fun finding stuff there without a list.

This is a bad plan. Replacing a simple list with spinning around in space noting things down as you see them might look pretty, but it's a huge functionality downgrade.

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

Not in the version on SISI now. It's possible that feature may make it into Odyssey but we cannot promise that at this time.


The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

It does not show ship signatures or similar. Only PVE sites are being shown.

In addition to signatures not staying at 100% once scanned down, the in-space overlay does not update as you scan the signature out - so you end up with an unknown signature in space that you warp to, and you end up some distance off of where it is shown in-space.

It should update to reflect the current scan strength as you scan it down with probes, and move accordingly so that when you warp to it you actually do go to that signature (like you do with 100% anomolies).

This is a bad plan. Replacing a simple list with spinning around in space noting things down as you see them might look pretty, but it's a huge functionality downgrade.

Not a fan of taking the old ice belts, removing them, then putting them essentially back in the same place, as a "hidden" public beacon that every. single. ship. can warp to with NO effort in locating it.

How is that even "exploring"?

since there is no thread to get the new jump gate feedback, I will leave this here...

now that these new gate jump effects give the notion of space travel continuity, please keep my modules running after the jump, if they are running before

thank you

1) After jump, you are cloaked. No modules can be on while cloaked (except cloak).
2) Very hard to do. The running modules are entires in a queue of events on a solar system's virtual machine. Easy to have your ship say "System 1, I'm leaving" and "System 2, I'm jumping in". Much more work to have system 1 then transfer all the queued up events from server 1 to server 2. Much easier to have you jump into a system with no queued up events.

Someone asked me an interesting question ; with this new scanner, as it can check new things every seconds, you should be able to know when a new wormhole appear on your system without doing anything (I can't test that, but on theory it should from what I understand). This seems a bit OP (but on the same level as the grav -> ano change... on the other side), did CCP though about it?

Right now, one of the primary methods of finding PvP in W-space is to chain-roll your static. This finds you PvP in two critical ways:

a. You cycle through many systems very rapidly, so if a system is dead you don't have to waste time scanning your way down a chain to find something that may or may not be there.

b. Your prey may not notice that you have opened into their system, giving you a crucial element of surprise. The primary mechanics of w-space rotate around denial of intel. No local, dscan dependance, etc. The ideal way (from an attacker's perspective) for someone to notice your presence in a w-space system is when you tackle them as the fleet lands. Ideally, they shouldn't even know that your wormhole is in their system until they've already been podded.

Potential problem 1: The list. If the list produced by the continuous scan includes signatures, then it will be VERY easy to spot a new one. Just ignoring all existing signatures would be enough, which is of course what we do now but with probes, which we have to manually cycle. Automating the process makes it too easy. I think the list needs to include anoms, but for this reason alone I think it's worth NOT having signatures in that list.

Regarding the scan overlay visuals: I think the residual grid effect that's currently present is, perhaps, a bit overbearing in contrast to the space environment. My preference is something more among the lines of DRADIS from a visual standpoint. It's simple, but effective. Making the visuals of the scanner simpler and more neutral could definitely reduce the potential annoyance of its persistence substantially.

I've noticed that, while the overlay is active, if you decide to look around with the right-click camera function, a glitch will occur and the overlay will disappear.

Please don't include signatures on the list (or put in some sort of delay). It turns the Discovery Scanner into a limited form of local in wormholes.

Real time intel should have to be tediously worked for (through DSPs, probe coverage, alts and/or friends, constantly scanning) not just handed out to anyone passing by (or swinging their camera around the screen).

The absolute best thing about wormholes is the hunt and the threat of being hunted. Signatures appearing on the overlay will gut these two things.

Downvote.

It looks cool, and offers the same feature but with less Spreadsheets: Online

Can that be turned off?

no it does not by any means

Another thought about this would be to have it show only 100% anomalies, and only show sigs when a DSP has been launched and scanned.

Please don't include signatures on the list (or put in some sort of delay). It turns the Discovery Scanner into a limited form of local in wormholes.

Real time intel should have to be tediously worked for (through DSPs, probe coverage, alts and/or friends, constantly scanning) not just handed out to anyone passing by (or swinging their camera around the screen).

The absolute best thing about wormholes is the hunt and the threat of being hunted. Signatures appearing on the overlay will gut these two things.

Not in the version on SISI now. It's possible that feature may make it into Odyssey but we cannot promise that at this time.


The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

When the sensor overlay is disabled, the mouse-over popups for anoms and sigs still display in space when you mouse-over their location (even though no icon is seen). This would be infuriating during a battle.

Tell me I can disconnect this.

When I'm running around jumping gates going from point a to point b I might not be interesting at all on what is out there or care.

Tell me I can disconnect this.

When I'm jumping a gate or from a titan into the middle of a combat the last thing I need is more stuff to fill my screen with effects and information I don't need to see at that moment.

Tell me I can disconnect this.

When I'm running around taking care of my poses or planets (PI) I don't want to see this

Tell me I can disconnect the auto run and have full control of when and how many times it runs, if needed. Thank you.

This I like (although with cores or combats, assuming that DSPs get the boot). It preserves the sense of discovery from finding something that was previously completely hidden (yes, having every sig ever show up does kill the mystery) and integrates it with something that encourages you to look at the pretty space around you instead of a black and white map made of lines and dots.

First Impressions:

1) I hated scanning and think that it is a lot easier to scan the signatures but still needs enough effort to make it a bit of a chore.

2) WHY are ore sites instantly warp-to-able when it would realistically take less than 10 mins to scan every signature in a system now? Is this done to aid miners or hulk hunters?

3) Do ore anoms restock every 4hrs or is that just ice?

4) Anyone else think hi sec belts will get slightly quieter now?

"2) WHY are ore sites instantly warp-to-able when it would realistically take less than 10 mins to scan every signature in a system now? Is this done to aid miners or hulk hunters?"

When was the last time you or anyone else you know fitted a core probe launcher to a Hulk?
That should answer your question.

Tell me I can disconnect this.

When I'm running around jumping gates going from point a to point b I might not be interesting at all on what is out there or care.

Tell me I can disconnect this.

When I'm jumping a gate or from a titan into the middle of a combat the last thing I need is more stuff to fill my screen with effects and information I don't need to see at that moment.

Tell me I can disconnect this.

When I'm running around taking care of my poses or planets (PI) I don't want to see this

Tell me I can disconnect the auto run and have full control of when and how many times it runs, if needed. Thank you.

Your opinion. For many others the best thing about wormholes is the loot. Hunting is well down the list.

The need for probes to be used to find people at grav sites is going away. For balance the system scanner should list signatures that you see in on the in-space scan. Also its sort of silly: My ship has a mult-gigaflop computer, and it cannot make a list?

Can you ditch the sensor overlay animation that now appears as part of station undock. I understand it's function as part of the scanning changes but can't see why it's been added as an undock affect. Any affects that you adding that are cosmetic should be made optional so I can turn them all off after the expansion

Not in the version on SISI now. It's possible that feature may make it into Odyssey but we cannot promise that at this time.


The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

On to usability.

This new system scanner HAS to integrate with the rest of the scanning functions. Otherwise it is basically eye candy.

1. If I ignore something in my scan window, it should disappear from the overlay.
2. If I scan a signature to 100% it should change green in the overlay.

The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it.

+«s it intended that you can't see the tags at the edge of the screen? (as indication that they are behind the cam)

Hey guys, I'm all caught up with the thread now, after yesterday's national holiday here in Iceland. We've also had a meeting with team Five O and the new CSM to talk about what we've been working on, and they are also giving us some good feedback.

We're working now on getting a more polished version ready for testing taking some of the feedback here into account.

can you give us an idea of what feedback your going to act on, and how?

tyvm

Just confirming that the people from K162 and Adhocracy that have posted previously are right on the money. Talk to James and Cipreh as promised and things should turn out fine.

Also have you considered making the system scanner results a form of delayed mode scanning ? Brand new signatures would start showing up after a random amount of time, this would allow gank fleets to still do their thing and remove the EZ-mode from this system.

People bothering to throw scanner probes out for safety should have an advantage over this system imho.

You'll need to drop probes and start scanning to get the signature type, the results in the sensor overlay work much like the results from a single deep space probe.

What is the range of the sensor overlay 256AU from my position?

Range is infinite

I think it would make a lot more sense to move the results from the initial auto-scan directly in the scanner. Now I see them in space, but need to scan manualy to have them in the scanner window.

Yes that makes sense, but Fozzie wants to remove that list. In truth I think he means he wants to remove the analyze button on the scanner list since that list is also used for probes. The basic idea of moving away from spreadsheets in space sounds good, but the implementation here is insufficient and removing the list at this point would cripple game play.

Range is infinite

LOL, no its not, infinite denotes that every where in the whole eve universe would appear.
return to reality please

Please biomass and unsubscribe.

he should have said the range encompasses everything within the system

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/infinite

and take your own advice, it might make you realise how much of a nice person you are

Apart from the fact that this bean counting is very unconstructive while there are more important issues and annoying devs doesnt really help with that..
Systems are (quasi) infinite. Pick some fast ship and try to find it's border, there is none. When there were still exploits that made Deep Safes possible, you could be thousands of AU from the sun and still be in the system.
(I would assume you are in fact only limited by the datatype that stores your position in system)

My first impression:

I'm confused to how the new changes and the old directional scanner relate. The old directional scanner could be set to 14au and 360 degrees and scanned manually. I was assuming that the new sensor overlay was just a graphical adaption to the old directional overlay, but from playing around with it its confusing.

-The new sensor overlay has infinite range whereas the old directional has just 14au range right?
-When I 'turn on' the sensor overlay its auto-updating correct? Doesn't seem like it on the actual signiture list on the directional -scan... or is the sensor overlay more a reflection of the old scanning system, not the directional scan?
- Does it make sense for these to be seperated?... why the seperation of the two types of scans? One scans for anoms and the others ships, but realistically, why can't a scan just be a scan? Its weird that the scanner is autoupdated and the directional scan is still manual...

yk

The new "Discovery Scanner" replaces your old Onboard Scanner. The Directional Scanner is unrelated and remains untouched.