imbalance makes them quite pointless to use to transport valusble bulk cargo - the role they are intended to perform.

Cost is a big factor in MMOs because it balances the game.

The cost has been drastically reduced and an imbalance makes them quite pointless to use to transport valusble bulk cargo - the role they are intended to perform.

Your definition of risk is so ****** ******* subjective that it physically pains me to read your idiotic posts.

risk [risk]
noun
1.
exposure to the chance of injury or loss; a hazard or dangerous chance


Just because you plan to suicide you ship when you gank, doesn't mean there is no risk. Allow me to count the ways:

1. You lose your ship. Is it intended? yea. Does it expose you the the chance of injury of loss? No ****, of course it does

2. You lose standing. "B-b-but Max", you whine, "can't you avoid letting your standing drop to a level that will harm you?" Why of course I can, but to do so I must invoke the ancient art of 'Planning' to mitigate my risk. More on that later.

3. Someone gains killrights on you that can be activated at any time. This risk follows you around even after the gank. Can't alts mitigate some of this risk? yes, but you would have to once again invoke the ancient art of 'planning'. Plus, the train to get a new character into a freighter ganking ship(brutix, nado, etc) will cost you in plex

4. And finally, there is the very real risk that the target will escape and you will have lost ships for nothing. This, too, can be mitigated via proper planning.

Now, I know many people say that carebears have lost their ability to invoke the ritual of planning, but I say NAY! I believe in you, carebears! I believe that you can find a friend or an alt to create an escape cyno! I believe that you can scout ahead for gank gangs! I BELIEVE that you can web your freighters to get them off of the gate quicker. I believe. I know that gangers have it easy. After all, all they have to do is put together a fleet of bumpers and gankers, and coordinate them such that they run through the entirety of your hp in the span of about 20 seconds. Easy right? Compared to them, yours is a monumental task. Yet I believe in your ingenuity. YOU CAN DO IT CAREBEARS! I BELIEVE IN YOU!
/sarcasm

When you use a tool (the gank ship in this instance) intending to destroy it, and you accept the resulting sec loss as a given then it becomes an expense, not a risk. Risk is the possibility of, not expense of.

citation needed on developer intention of need of battleships to gank freighters due to cost of freighter at release, intention of number and type of ships to gank freighter at release, intention of cargo containers to be unscannable (especially since they were either always or have been changed to be scannable)

Expenses are still risks.

Risk is cost +ù probability. Just because the probability happens to be 1 doesn't mean it's not a risk.

GǪoh, and the probability isn't 1.

Since these ganks cannot fail,

A risk is only a risk if it has chance in it.

Since these ganks cannot fail

no i'm pretty sure claims need to be backed up. i'm not only asking for an indication bs were needed but intention of bs to be needed and intention of bs requirement to gank due to respective costs of the ships.

and the fact that cargo containers were changed to be scannable indicates that the unscannability of cargo containers was considered to be unbalanced.

They're not "claims" they're historical facts. As for the devs the intention can be reached by the fact the system of EHP vs DPS has existed since EvE first launched. Again reached by the EHP buff the devs made because ships were popping to quickly in combat. Its not rocket science.

Since these ganks cannot fail

Nope. A risk is any cost (including negative ones) that can have a probaility value attached to it. If that probability happens to come out as 1, it just makes it a very high risk. The only way for it to be no risk is if we equate zero risk (cost = 0 or probability = 0) with GÇ£noGÇ¥ risk, but strictly speaking, that's still a risk at a value of zero.

GǪexcept that they can. So: since these ganks can fail, and since there's even the chance that you won't lose your ship in the process, the probability isn't 1 to begin with, so even with a limited definition of risk where p<1, it's still a risk.

For the third bloody time



PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THIS IS SO

NEXT sensless Jumpfreighter was ganked by Goons

Cargovalue: 1.2 bil

CCP you want this kind of "pvp"....if yes, you will lost all old players
which gave your game the chance to grow 10 years ago!


I play now over 8 years Eve....but now its over for me....

and all other players who want to tell me: "why you re so dump and fly in highsec with your Jumpfreighter"

It was not my, it was only a good friend in my corporation....the second one in the last 2 month....

we will quit now....


THANKYOU CCP
Regards
Tom

I explained it above. If you do it right the freighter will pop every time. If you do it wrong you can bump till people reship.

I explained it above. If you do it right the freighter will pop every time. If you do it wrong you can bump till people reship.

if we're balancing on the idea that everyone always does everything perfectly

let's hypothetically give the freighter pilot as many perfectly competent friends in rookie ships as the gankers do taloses and brutixes and catalysts and scouts and bumpers

and balance from there

ps the velators have webs

We're discussing a gank of a single jump freighter in high sec. Not metagaming fleet freighter warfare.

As for your previous comment on fact - what I described is historical EvE fact. Been playing since 2003 and know this to be accurate. Look up the very first freighter ganks and read corresponding threads comments.

Probability and chance are the same thing.

They cant fail if you bring enough ships.

We're discussing a gank of a single jump freighter in high sec. Not metagaming fleet freighter warfare.

Cost is a big factor in MMOs because it balances the game. Theres a reason freighters were introduced in game with huge (at the time) EHP. They were expensive ships and so to gank one one needed to sacrifice a large number of expensive battleships. If cost wasnt a factor they would have had 10000 EHP and you could have ganked then with a couple of cruisers.

Since they were introduced changes have made them gankable with a lot less ships than originally intended. Changes have also made their contents scannable where before with containers they couldnt be. The cost has been drastically reduced and an imbalance makes them quite pointless to use to transport valusble bulk cargo - the role they are intended to perform.

Just a quick thought:

The logic here is apparently that given enough gankers the outcome is inevitable if I'm reading this correctly. Because of this attribute, the outcome is certain. Given this logic, we should be playing in a game where all things are happening simultaneously because of unlimited participants? All freighters are being ganked, all materials are being hauled, all TCUs are being shot, etc.

I mean, given enough gankers, a freighter will die.
Given enough freighters, a load will get moved.
Given enough shooters, a TCU will be shot.

Thoughts on this?

You know that a jump freighter is worse than a normal freighter for hauling, right?

Just a quick thought:

The logic here is apparently that given enough gankers the outcome is inevitable if I'm reading this correctly. Because of this attribute, the outcome is certain. Given this logic, we should be playing in a game where all things are happening simultaneously because of unlimited participants? All freighters are being ganked, all materials are being hauled, all TCUs are being shot, etc.

I mean, given enough gankers, a freighter will die.
Given enough freighters, a load will get moved.
Given enough shooters, a TCU will be shot.

Thoughts on this?

No. Chance is the (indeterministic) result of the application of probabilities. Even if you were the equate the two, it doesn't particularly change anything. Just because the probability|chance is 1 doesn't mean that there is no risk GÇö just that the risk is the full value of the cost.

Sure they can. Everyone rolls a 100 on their to-hit rolls, miss completely, and keep doing enough times to not do enough damage before they get shot to pieces themslves. Probability of gank success <1.

Conversely, everyone might roll 1 on their to-hit rolls, getting 3+ù damage crits and miraculously alpha the poor thing with their DPS ships, so by the time the last guy is firing, the target is gone and he has nothing to shoot at. Probability of ship loss <1.