Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Callyuk
Thundercats The Initiative.
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 12:52:00 -
[241] - Quote
I got more tears for you today . ;) since im not logging in anymore for now i have time to stay on this forum 24/7 How Freighters are ganked with new flagging system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y |

Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
164
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:16:00 -
[242] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:1. Very highrisk LMAO no. If it were, they'd be dying all over the place. They aren't. So we'll put that down as very low to no risk as well. BALANCE! They die in high a lot. Undocking and using jumpdrive is safe but piloting them around high is very dangerous due to epeen gankers in cheap dessies.
To the poster before you the gank ship is not put at risk - its purpose is to die. |

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
554
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:18:00 -
[243] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Tippia wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:1. Very highrisk LMAO no. If it were, they'd be dying all over the place. They aren't. So we'll put that down as very low to no risk as well. BALANCE! They die in high a lot. Undocking and using jumpdrive is safe but piloting them around high is very dangerous due to epeen gankers in cheap dessies. To the poster before you the gank ship is not put at risk - its purpose is to die.
I might be stupid, in fact assume I am but
Please describe the strategy used to suicide gank a Jump Freighter in High Sec " Ramona McCandless, you're my hero." - Domanique Altares, Rifterlings, Point Blank Alliance
Tell The Others |

Elecktra Blue
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
19
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:21:00 -
[244] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Tippia wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:1. Very highrisk LMAO no. If it were, they'd be dying all over the place. They aren't. So we'll put that down as very low to no risk as well. BALANCE! They die in high a lot. Undocking and using jumpdrive is safe but piloting them around high is very dangerous due to epeen gankers in cheap dessies. To the poster before you the gank ship is not put at risk - its purpose is to die. I might be stupid, in fact assume I am but Please describe the strategy used to suicide gank a Jump Freighter in High Sec
For a live demonstration, please undock in a freighter with valuable cargo, and a Minister will be there shortly to assist you with educational material regarding this phenomenon. Miniluv Minister |

Thugnificent Gangstalicio
Nigerian Drug Manufactory co. xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:24:00 -
[245] - Quote
Callyuk wrote:I got more tears for you today . ;) since im not logging in anymore for now i have time to stay on this forum 24/7
Cool. Go play WoW or something. |

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
554
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:27:00 -
[246] - Quote
Elecktra Blue wrote:
For a live demonstration, please undock in a freighter with valuable cargo, and a Minister will be there shortly to assist you with educational material regarding this phenomenon.
I have no doubt that your experienced operatives are more than capable of conducting such a mission
But I doubt the person I asked has the first clue about it
Which is what I was asking " Ramona McCandless, you're my hero." - Domanique Altares, Rifterlings, Point Blank Alliance
Tell The Others |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15359
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:32:00 -
[247] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Dying at all means it's very risky to autopilot to Jita with a hold of stuff.
VERY RISKY (to autopilot to Jita with a hold of stuff) In other words, very low to no risk (unless you press the suicide button).
Infinity Ziona wrote:They die in high a lot. The gates leading to Jita says otherwise, as do every pipeline between the main hubs. If they died a lot, why on earth is space full of them? Do you have any kind of statistic to show this mass slaughter?
Quote:To the poster before you the gank ship is not put at risk - its purpose is to die. GǪwhich makes it a very very high risk.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
358
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:44:00 -
[248] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪwhich makes it a very very high risk.
What is it with you, arguing black is white all the time. Fact is, it's very low risk, because the chance of losing your ship needs to be multiplied by the cost of the stuff you're going to lose. It's stupid to say it's "very high risk". It isn't. It's forthelolz risk.
Yes, it is a broken mechanic. No, there's nothing you can do about it. The only way I know to move value to Jita (not from it), is to take your high value stuff in a warpy/cloaky. Highly unlikely you're going to get caught unless you get stuck on a clusterfail gate at peak time.
|

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
554
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:47:00 -
[249] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪwhich makes it a very very high risk.
Fact is, it's very low risk
As much as I do want Tippia to be my mom in real life
Im afraid I agree with Victoria on this one, sorry " Ramona McCandless, you're my hero." - Domanique Altares, Rifterlings, Point Blank Alliance
Tell The Others |

Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
162
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:59:00 -
[250] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:They die in high a lot. The gates leading to Jita says otherwise, as do every pipeline between the main hubs. If they died a lot, why on earth is space full of them? Do you have any kind of statistic to show this mass slaughter?
I bet it's all about safety in numbers, if 1000 freighters travel to jita every day, and 2 of them get ganked on the way (every day) then Your average risk to loos a freighter is at 0,002% (every day). :)
Or, if You carry 2bil worth of stuff in Your hold You can calculate an average risk of 400m isk. Cost for the freighter not included ofc. 
Now I wish I had numbers not pulled out of my arse so we could do some risk calculation.  There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
|

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
364
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:01:00 -
[251] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪwhich makes it a very very high risk.
Fact is, it's very low risk As much as I do want Tippia to be my mom in real life Im afraid I agree with Victoria on this one, sorry
I disagree.
It's actually 100% risk, because you will definitely, without question, lose your ship. You might lose your pod too.
But the risk is taken into account by the ganker, and the effects of this risk minimized. Pure planning and preparation. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
358
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:08:00 -
[252] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: It's actually 100% risk, because you will definitely, without question, lose your ship. You might lose your pod too.
Like ganking barges, please multiply the "risk" by the cost of what you're risking to come up with a fairer metric for what is actually being "risked" here.
Regardless, one lesson the OP needs to learn early in Eve is that people like ganking expensive stuff and just because it didn't get ganked the first 99 times you did it, doesn't mean it won't be the 100th time. You just kept rolling that 100 sided dice. |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1173
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:09:00 -
[253] - Quote
yo regarding the 'losing the ganking ship is a high/low risk' horseshit
risk is more like the chance of an undesired outcome. gankers pretty obviously always lose their ship to succeed, it's not a risk because it's an inevitable outcome, success or failure. saying the loss of the gank ship is high or low risk (this happens every damned argument on the subject) is stupid because it's not a risk at all, it's a guaranteed event and foreseen expense or penalty
a risk, as i see it, is the chance of an event or circumstance leading to the failure of the venture. in this case, it is any circumstance or event leading to the outcome of the loss of the ganking fleet without securing the cargo of the freighter over the desired outcome of the loss of the ganking fleet and securing the value of the freighter
it is not correct to say 'the loss of the brutix is a risk', it is only correct to say 'the value of the brutix is put at risk'
there are actual risks associated with ganking for profit, like failing the gank, hitting an empty ship, the ship not dropping anything, the cargo being stolen, the fleet being disorganised, whatev. which are all mitigated by preparation, knowledge and effort, so the idea there is no or little risk is still ridiculous - the risk is there and minimised by the effort of competent, organised and patient gankers
an organised, considered team effort versus the effort and forethought of the lone freighter pilot. the gankers put up the value of their fleet, the freighter puts up the value of their ship and cargo |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15359
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:13:00 -
[254] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪwhich makes it a very very high risk. What is it with you, arguing black is white all the time. No, I'm merely arguing that black is the absence of (visible) light.
Risk = cost +ù probability. If the probability of loss is high, then so is the risk.
Fact is, it's almost a 100% risk (there's always the slim chance that the target just insta-dies before you get the chance to activate your guns). What you're talking about is the ability to mitigate this risk: pick a low cost; pick a high-value target; adjust the spawn timers to give you a greater chance of a successful kill; sacrifice a goat to the Random Number God to get a good drop.
None of it removes or chances the fact that the ship is at risk GÇö very very high risk.
Quote:Yes, it is a broken mechanic. In what way is it broken? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1173
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:16:00 -
[255] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:there are actual risks associated with ganking for profit, like failing the gank, hitting an empty ship, the ship not dropping anything, the cargo being stolen, the fleet being disorganised, whatev. which are all mitigated by preparation, knowledge and effort, correction: not even goon sorcery can mitigate the wrath of the loot fairy |

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
555
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:16:00 -
[256] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
As much as I do want Tippia to be my mom in real life
I disagree.
Sorry but this is a scientifically provable fact
" Ramona McCandless, you're my hero." - Domanique Altares, Rifterlings, Point Blank Alliance
Tell The Others |

Nox Solitudo
Space Ants
22
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:21:00 -
[257] - Quote
Verunae Caseti wrote:Quote:and i don-¦t want a discussion about these... This is a discussion forum. If you don't want a dicussion, you're in the wrong place.
Seriously, now how am I supposed to explain my colleagues why I'm laying helplessly on a desk trying to stop my uncontrollable burst of laughter? :( :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D |

baltec1
Bat Country
7182
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:27:00 -
[258] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Tippia wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:They die in high a lot. The gates leading to Jita says otherwise, as do every pipeline between the main hubs. If they died a lot, why on earth is space full of them? Do you have any kind of statistic to show this mass slaughter? I bet it's all about safety in numbers, if 1000 freighters travel to jita every day, and 2 of them get ganked on the way (every day) then Your average risk to loos a freighter is at 0,002% (every day). :) Or, if You carry 2bil worth of stuff in Your hold You can calculate an average risk of 400m isk. Cost for the freighter not included ofc.  Now I wish I had numbers not pulled out of my arse so we could do some risk calculation. 
We did (because we love numbers and facts) and the risk of losing a freighter with a cargo that is not profitable to gank is around the same as being involved in a fatal car crash.
Its most likely much lower as we calculated using the average number of freighters to pass through jita in a day vs EVE wide freighter/JF kills over a month. If you work out freighters killed vs freighter trips EVE wide chances are you will be struck by lightning first unless you do something daft. |

Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
419
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:31:00 -
[259] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Callyuk wrote:The point is bubbles worked just like they were designed to But the designer didnt intend for them to pull people through there POS. GǪin other words, the shields were not working as intended, which makes it completely unlike bumping or aggression flagging, and which made it an exploit (again completely unlike bumping or aggression flagging). You're still trying to equate using something that's working as intended with exploiting something that wasn't, so no. Still as bad since the comparison is still the same.
Well no. By your own logic a warp bubble should be able to drag into a pos based on the fact when you are in warp you can go through planets.
But it created an unfair advantage and wrongful manipulation of the sandbox tools at our disposal, so CCP did away with that element. Because it wasn't "meant to be used in that way".
/shrug "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
|

Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:32:00 -
[260] - Quote
*sigh*
Isn't the whole point of EVE online that "someone is going to blow you up, so look out"? |
|

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
555
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:34:00 -
[261] - Quote
Inokuma Yawara wrote:*sigh*
Isn't the whole point of EVE online that "someone is going to blow you up, so look out"?
THIS " Ramona McCandless, you're my hero." - Domanique Altares, Rifterlings, Point Blank Alliance
Tell The Others |

Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
419
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:34:00 -
[262] - Quote
Phish wrote:Honestly it is a very stupid mechanic. To let a bunch of ships that total less then 30M kill a freighter. There needs to be a way to fight back on the freighters side, so if your AFK your dead but if your active and there you can so something with at least a chance of saving your ship. (a chance, doesn't have to be 100%, but at least 50% would be nice)
Whereas the value of a hull should have an idea of how well it can perform... the value of the ships don't really have anything to do with its' roles (in other fields-edit-).
A sentinel can ewar a helluva lot better than an Abaddon for instance.
My pilgrim I use as a fun hostile territory blockade runner can never freight my pi better than a freighter, but it can transverse my movements better and safer, at the cost of more trips.
Point being... cost doesn't have anything to do with this scenario. "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
|

Nox Solitudo
Space Ants
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:39:00 -
[263] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: I believe that EvE should be a difficult game. It should take effort to kill a multi-billion isk ship. Being able to kill freighters and other high value targets in high sec in seconds, with a bunch of low skilled alts for giggles devalues EvE. Why put in effort and pay 50 - 500 mill wardecs to hunt targets, or pirate in low or null and hunt targets and in turn be hunted when you can just sit safely and immune in high ganking multi billion isk freighters / jump freighters risk free.
Then do something and don't be vulnerable?
I believe that EVE should be a difficult game. It should be dangerous to transport anything very valuable in a multi-billion isk ship.
 |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15359
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:43:00 -
[264] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Well no. By your own my logic a warp bubble should be able to drag into a pos based on the fact when you are in warp you can go through planets. No, based on your logic, it should be able to drag through a POS, not into it GÇö the shields should keep you out. In the case of overlap, you should arrive just outside the shield.
Also, fixed your attribution error.
Quote:But it created an unfair advantage and wrongful manipulation of the sandbox tools at our disposal, so CCP did away with that element. Because it wasn't "meant to be used in that way". WeeeellGǪ It created a situation where one tool completely obliterated one of the key points of another: POS shields were meant to protect the people and stuff inside until the POS was brought down; bubbles circumvented this. Yes, we could get into a semantic argument about the minute differences between GÇ£circumventGÇ¥ and GÇ£counterGÇ¥, but let's not. The counter to POS shields were Dreadnoughts, and they did exactly that: they provided a tool to counter the other side's tool GÇö they did not circumvent it and render it pointless.
Bubbles were not meant to be a circumvention tool for the POS tool, because circumvention is just overall bad GÇö had they merely countered the POS shields in some odd way, it's possible that the tactic could have stayed in. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Maximillian German
Spectres Syndicate
8
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 15:47:00 -
[265] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Tippia wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:1. Very highrisk LMAO no. If it were, they'd be dying all over the place. They aren't. So we'll put that down as very low to no risk as well. BALANCE! They die in high a lot. Undocking and using jumpdrive is safe but piloting them around high is very dangerous due to epeen gankers in cheap dessies. To the poster before you the gank ship is not put at risk - its purpose is to die.
Your definition of risk is so ****** ******* subjective that it physically pains me to read your idiotic posts.
risk [risk] noun 1. exposure to the chance of injury or loss; a hazard or dangerous chance
Just because you plan to suicide you ship when you gank, doesn't mean there is no risk. Allow me to count the ways:
1. You lose your ship. Is it intended? yea. Does it expose you the the chance of injury of loss? No ****, of course it does
2. You lose standing. "B-b-but Max", you whine, "can't you avoid letting your standing drop to a level that will harm you?" Why of course I can, but to do so I must invoke the ancient art of 'Planning' to mitigate my risk. More on that later.
3. Someone gains killrights on you that can be activated at any time. This risk follows you around even after the gank. Can't alts mitigate some of this risk? yes, but you would have to once again invoke the ancient art of 'planning'. Plus, the train to get a new character into a freighter ganking ship(brutix, nado, etc) will cost you in plex
4. And finally, there is the very real risk that the target will escape and you will have lost ships for nothing. This, too, can be mitigated via proper planning.
Now, I know many people say that carebears have lost their ability to invoke the ritual of planning, but I say NAY! I believe in you, carebears! I believe that you can find a friend or an alt to create an escape cyno! I believe that you can scout ahead for gank gangs! I BELIEVE that you can web your freighters to get them off of the gate quicker. I believe. I know that gangers have it easy. After all, all they have to do is put together a fleet of bumpers and gankers, and coordinate them such that they run through the entirety of your hp in the span of about 20 seconds. Easy right? Compared to them, yours is a monumental task. Yet I believe in your ingenuity. YOU CAN DO IT CAREBEARS! I BELIEVE IN YOU! /sarcasm |

Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
420
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 15:50:00 -
[266] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Well no. By your own my logic a warp bubble should be able to drag into a pos based on the fact when you are in warp you can go through planets. No, based on your logic, it should be able to drag through a POS, not into it GÇö the shields should keep you out. In the case of overlap, you should arrive just outside the shield. Also, fixed your attribution error. Quote:But it created an unfair advantage and wrongful manipulation of the sandbox tools at our disposal, so CCP did away with that element. Because it wasn't "meant to be used in that way". WeeeellGǪ It created a situation where one tool completely obliterated one of the key points of another: POS shields were meant to protect the people and stuff inside until the POS was brought down; bubbles circumvented this. Yes, we could get into a semantic argument about the minute differences between GÇ£circumventGÇ¥ and GÇ£counterGÇ¥, but let's not. The counter to POS shields were Dreadnoughts, and they did exactly that: they provided a tool to counter the other side's tool GÇö they did not circumvent it and render it pointless. Bubbles were not meant to be a circumvention tool for the POS tool, because circumvention is just overall bad GÇö had they merely countered the POS shields in some odd way, it's possible that the tactic could have stayed in.
Almost sounds like you don't like the term sandbox...
Hard for you to admit to anything isn't it?
I simply used your own theories against you and you take them seriously.
You don't need to argue, or even worry about semantics, I'm glad they fixed it. "Never rub another man's rhubarb." -Joker in Batman (Jack Nicholson) Just get a catalyst, blow him up and the post in local "Just a friendly reminder that I'm mining here and not you." -Abrazzar
|

darmwand
Repo.
156
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:11:00 -
[267] - Quote
I have to admit that I don't care enough to read the whole 14 pages but I would imagine a JF to be pretty much impossible to gank if flown right, i.e. cyno to a low-sec station near your destination and contract the cargo to Black Frog. Of course flying one through ordinary jump gates is very much missing the point of having a JF in the first place.
Also, if you don't think this is "acceptable PvP", what is? The ability to lose your transport ship, mining barge etc. is the "risk" in the whole "risk vs. reward" thing. After all, if there were no risk, why should areas where Jump Freighters make sense come with more / better rewards than high-sec? darmwand Repossession Agent http://www.repo-corp.net/ Recruitment is OPEN |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15361
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:15:00 -
[268] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Almost sounds like you don't like the term sandbox... How so?
Quote:Hard for you to admit to anything isn't it? Not particularly, no.
Quote:I simply used your own theories against you and you take them seriously. GǪexcept that it wasn't my theory. I pointed out that POS shields were meant to keep people out and that clever bubble placement circumvented this, which they were not meant to do. You added some oddball theory of your own based on the unconnected fact that you can warp through planets (which isn't particularly strange GÇö you can fly through them too). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
165
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:04:00 -
[269] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Phish wrote:Honestly it is a very stupid mechanic. To let a bunch of ships that total less then 30M kill a freighter. There needs to be a way to fight back on the freighters side, so if your AFK your dead but if your active and there you can so something with at least a chance of saving your ship. (a chance, doesn't have to be 100%, but at least 50% would be nice) Whereas the value of a hull should have an idea of how well it can perform... the value of the ships don't really have anything to do with its' roles (in other fields-edit-). A sentinel can ewar a helluva lot better than an Abaddon for instance. My pilgrim I use as a fun hostile territory blockade runner can never freight my pi better than a freighter, but it can transverse my movements better and safer, at the cost of more trips. Point being... cost doesn't have anything to do with this scenario. Cost is a big factor in MMOs because it balances the game. Theres a reason freighters were introduced in game with huge (at the time) EHP. They were expensive ships and so to gank one one needed to sacrifice a large number of expensive battleships. If cost wasnt a factor they would have had 10000 EHP and you could have ganked then with a couple of cruisers.
Since they were introduced changes have made them gankable with a lot less ships than originally intended. Changes have also made their contents scannable where before with containers they couldnt be. The cost has been drastically reduced and an imbalance makes them quite pointless to use to transport valusble bulk cargo - the role they are intended to perform. |

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
567
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:05:00 -
[270] - Quote
Any chance you can explain how you gank a freighter without risk please?
" Ramona McCandless, you're my hero." - Domanique Altares, Rifterlings, Point Blank Alliance
Tell The Others |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 .. 14 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |