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Jag, Vengeance, Hawk + AS 4th bonus!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.13 16:34:00 - [211] Originally by: Weirda Edited by: Weirda on 13/01/2006 16:21:32 Originally by: Sarmaul bumping again, because we're never going to let you forget about this until it's done :) bless you my child, you have seen the light. no, I've seen the evil things I can do with a jag + 4th midslot that I can't do with a wolf. on the other hands, the jag still wouldn't be able to do the things the wolf can, i.e. load up with 280mms and 2-volley everything
Aba Tor	Posted - 2006.01.13 16:40:00 - [212] WE NEED A MISSILE AF!!!! (no the hawk is not one....but could be with more missile slots)...oh an no "u got one it's called the manticore"... every race has a sb.. The gals have a drone af why can't the caldari have a missile af? I for one don't like guns..yukky yukky guns..iiiic...but love the smell of rocket fuel in the EVEning
Bbllaarrgg	Posted - 2006.01.13 17:24:00 - [213] Edited by: Bbllaarrgg on 13/01/2006 17:24:28 I fanally bothered training up amarr frig 5 so i could check out their t2 frigs. So i can fly all AF's now, some are ok, some of em are just a joke with a special mention for the vengeance. I think i spent a good 20mins laughing at the vengeance, in fact, just thinking about the ship starts me giggling, i mean wtf? they all need those poxy resistance bonuses taken away, and possibly bring then more in line with the t1 variants of the ship that got changed with the mark2 project. I cant help thinking the punisher gets a better bonus than either of the amarr AF's. Oh and the rifter does more damage than the jag... i like the gallente ones tho _________________________ Insert fnord here.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.01.13 18:39:00 - [214] Originally by: Weirda otherwise, Tuxford is the new benefactor of the Minmatar race for what he did for the rifter. <bevis n' butthead> heheheheheheehehe... you said... benefactor... yeah yeah! </bevis n' butthead> /free and deserving bump Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Trelennen	Posted - 2006.01.13 23:16:00 - [215] Edited by: Trelennen on 13/01/2006 23:17:06 Originally by: Bbllaarrgg Oh and the rifter does more damage than the jag... Not more, exactly the same. At closer range with artys though. The "funny" thing, is that jaguar description says it's a versatile ship, but it has same slots layout than the rifter, minus a launcher hardpoint I've been quite astonished looking at AFs bonus when I saw that none of them had a dual damage bonus. Then I understood why wolf + ACs + 1 gyro = 140 DPS while harpy with blaster + 1 MFS = 200 DPS, with much better tank , Jag having the prize for being the lowest damagin AF, dealing less damage than the claw, which is an inty edit: all put a link in your sig to support this thread! It worked for named large blasters and named 800 plate, maybe it'll work again for our AFs! ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2006.01.15 23:11:00 - [216] CCP, the Jaguar is a Rifter with slightly better base resists, which gets negated by its slower base speed and agility. (Less transversal = more damage) Boost the Jaguar. You know you want to.
CardboardSword42	Posted - 2006.01.16 01:43:00 - [217] This thread doesn't deserve to be on the second page. Come on CCP, the Hawk needs more love. And what better love is there than more missiles and a bonus to missiles. Fleshreaper Inc. Representative
Ante	Posted - 2006.01.16 03:48:00 - [218] Vengeance does OK with a small energy neutraliser because of it's cap bonus. Chuck two cap power relays on with a small rep II, tracking disruptor + guns tends to do ok.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.16 05:10:00 - [219] The day the Devs realize the Hawk being called a 'missile' AF makes as much sense as inties with damage and not tackling bonuses, will be a good day. Anyone who says we have the manticore needs to kill themself for not knowing the difference between an AF and SB. Seriously, get it together CCP. At the very least the Harpy and Hawk should have the Merlin resists added to theirs, and the hawk should be a 2/3(or 4) layout with pg/cpu changes to compensate. Kali needs some Mk2 changes to t2 items at the very least. AFs need reworked, and inties sure as hell shouldn't have damage bonuses unless you plan to give a tackler bonus to some AFs. I'm sure I could find a use for some +web power/range, or scram range. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.16 20:17:00 - [220] bumpety bump. come tux, we'll even forgive you touching the thorax
Garrick Amorr	Posted - 2006.01.16 22:26:00 - [221] Bump! This isn't going to go away! Closing your eyes and Lalalalaing is gonna work ;)
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.16 22:27:00 - [222] Originally by: Garrick Amorr Bump! This isn't going to go away! Closing your eyes and Lalalalaing is gonna work ;) ISN'T
Shin Ra	Posted - 2006.01.16 22:31:00 - [223] Give the Jaguar a speed bonus. Give the vengeance a nos bonus. Good to go.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.16 22:34:00 - [224] Originally by: Shin Ra Give the Jaguar a speed bonus. Give the vengeance a nos bonus. Good to go. and give the jaguar it's missing slot (preferably in the mid).
Phelan Lore	Posted - 2006.01.16 22:41:00 - [225] Jaguar should be the assault frig version of the vagabond. Extra mid, more CPU, and a speed bonus perhaps. It needs more cap too, if you fit it with a MWD it can't even make it across a lot of 0.0 systems. Give the wolf a double damage bonus like the tempest, rupture, claw, munnin, vagabond. ________________ ~Phelan Lore Your isk has become my isk, by way of my actions...
Trelennen	Posted - 2006.01.16 23:03:00 - [226] Originally by: Phelan Lore Jaguar should be the assault frig version of the vagabond. Extra mid, more CPU, and a speed bonus perhaps. It needs more cap too, if you fit it with a MWD it can't even make it across a lot of 0.0 systems. Give the wolf a double damage bonus like the tempest, rupture, claw, munnin, vagabond. I guess rather than the speed bonus, the jag would need to do more damage. It currently doesn't do more damage than the rifter (same amount of turrets, one damage bonus like the rifter), and is outdamaged by the claw! Considering that with the speed it already has, it'd be better off being a close range ship, the range bonus could be changed to an other 5% damage bonus (not rof, AC chew already fast enough through ammo), and let the wolf be the arty plateform, with double damage bonus like pest, rupture, etc. I've been quite surprised that neither wolf nor jag have double damage bonus, while proj are more or less balanced with 2 damage bonus to be on par with hybrids with one and lasers with none ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Kai Lae	Posted - 2006.01.16 23:57:00 - [227] Originally by: Phelan Lore Jaguar should be the assault frig version of the vagabond. Extra mid, more CPU, and a speed bonus perhaps. It needs more cap too, if you fit it with a MWD it can't even make it across a lot of 0.0 systems. Give the wolf a double damage bonus like the tempest, rupture, claw, munnin, vagabond. Tracking. More damage is useless if you can't hit the target.
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2006.01.17 00:23:00 - [228] Originally by: Kai Lae Tracking. More damage is useless if you can't hit the target. Given the choice of 4 bonuses for a Jaguar i'd go for Falloff/Damage/RoF/Speed. Its not like you want to go uber close with autocannons anyway, they're not blasters. Keep your distance and they track just fine.
Kai Lae	Posted - 2006.01.17 00:49:00 - [229] Originally by: Trelennen I guess rather than the speed bonus, the jag would need to do more damage. It currently doesn't do more damage than the rifter (same amount of turrets, one damage bonus like the rifter), and is outdamaged by the claw! Considering that with the speed it already has, it'd be better off being a close range ship, the range bonus could be changed to an other 5% damage bonus (not rof, AC chew already fast enough through ammo), and let the wolf be the arty plateform, with double damage bonus like pest, rupture, etc. I've been quite surprised that neither wolf nor jag have double damage bonus, while proj are more or less balanced with 2 damage bonus to be on par with hybrids with one and lasers with none Jaguar needs: 4 Mid slots More cap (same as rifter currently) More CPU. Not more to fit something in that 4th mid slot, but more beyond this. Frankly I'd trade grid for more CPU, I never use it all anyway. Replace optimal range bonus with falloff range bonus Add 5% speed per level. Result - Mini vagabond. Enjoy all. Difference is vaga has 5% ROF bonus and the proposed jag has 5% tracking, considering that the Jag is a faster ship trying to engage other faster ships I'd keep the tracking. As for damage and "it does the same as the rifter" this ship isn't the damage dealing one of the minnie AF pair, that's a wolf. However, the real problem with damage is the lack of CPU. Autos/Rockets/shield tank + gyros is a no go, you don't have enough CPU. If the CPU was increased it would be possible to mount some damage mods and then you'd have something going. In general, I'm thinking that each AF should be a smaller version of the HAC in that family, except where it makes no sense because the HAC itself needs a change. I've kind of changed my mind a little bit here: Harpy: 5% shield resist per level Hawk: +1 mid, +2 launcher hardpoint, -2 turret hardpoint, 5% missile damage per level, replace turret optimal range and shield boost amount with 10% bonus to missile velocity per level and 10% light and rocket missile flight time (don't really like this one, but rockets could be an interesting option here). Wolf: Add 5% ROF to small projectiles, replace 5% falloff with 5% tracking. Retribution: 5% small energy turret ROF per level, -1 high slot, +1 mid slot. Vengeance: 5% armor resist per level, 10% danage per level (need testing on that might be too much), +1 low slot. While you're at it try the sac out with +10% med energy turret damage instead of optimal range as well. As for the gallente AF not sure what to do with these however. Ishkur becomes overpowered by trading the useless optimal range bonus for drone damage, and the drone control range bonus is not useful very much either. Side issues that relate to these ships: 1. Speed, most are slower than there base ships and there seems to be no reason. 2. Medium Beam laser grid. Takes WAY too much grid. If the gun does too much damage/has too good tracking, adjust these and reduce the grid requirements to something sane. 3. Small arty, with regards to size of the ammo magazine and 250mm ROF. Since the patch the magazine size is too small for both 280mm/250mm and the 250mm (and 650mm, and 1200mm) have always been poor weapons, since they do smaller damage and the ROF difference is not enough to compensate for the ease in fitting them when compared to the damage loss. Look at increasing the ROF of these weapons somewhat to compensate.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.01.17 01:50:00 - [230] good posts - keep them coming! we need to grow the fire! one quote from Dylan come to mind over the Assault Ships: "The Pumps don't work cuz the Vandals took the Handles!" Hammer... fix these ship! you know you want to!! __ Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Shin Ra	Posted - 2006.01.17 01:51:00 - [231] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Shin Ra Give the Jaguar a speed bonus. Give the vengeance a nos bonus. Good to go. and give the jaguar it's missing slot (preferably in the mid). not really necessary.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.17 02:53:00 - [232] Some forum mod should sticky this. It's quite important and we really need CCP to address this. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.01.17 04:43:00 - [233] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Some forum mod should sticky this. It's quite important and we really need CCP to address this. that would be the day... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Antic	Posted - 2006.01.17 04:58:00 - [234] guess someone got to notice the issue someday. perhaps when the thread reaches 30 pages? :/
Weirda	Posted - 2006.01.17 05:03:00 - [235] Originally by: Antic guess someone got to notice the issue someday. perhaps when the thread reaches 30 pages? :/ aye - and no one really whining either. this is one of the longest 'asking for a boost' thread where there isn't a bunch of 'stfu adapt' stuff... that is a true sign that it is something that is universally wrong. (weirda thinking one of the next three post will be 'stfu adapt') __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2006.01.17 07:22:00 - [236] I can only show my support for the af's by posting . false bonuses got to go... personally I think the weapons on af's could use more bonuses to make em more... well assaulty, as in good damage but not so able to keep the target around, while inty's should be the ones holding the targets down but lacking in damage or so. Just a thought, sucks lollypop ... just a thought. ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.17 10:24:00 - [237] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 17/01/2006 10:24:21 Alright, lets play a game, we'll call it "if you could 'fix' the AFs". Post your ideal, balanced (as far as you know) version of AFs you'd like to see fixed. As for me... Hawk Model type is changed from a Merlin to a Kestrel base, and the mass/shields/hull/hold..etc would change with it (naturally). Slot layout would be 4/4/3, CPU/grid would be slightly boosted because CCP hates to see launchers fit. Bonuses: Caldari Frigate skill: 10% missile/rocket velocity, 15%* increase to kinetic missile damage per level Assault Ship skill: 5% bonus to launcher rate of fire, 5%** increase to misile/rocket damage per level. keep in mind this is just a 5% boost from Kestrels normal damage. Could replace with a flat 10% to all dmg types and make us all happy people. * would be for all types, not just kinetic. could bump it up to 10% and drop the frig skill's 15% to 10% to make it a 10/10 bonus instead of 15/5. Either way you'd have the same kinetic damage, one way would make all types slightly better. Harpy Drop the fake resistance bonus and give us the Merlin 5% to all resists per level bonus and I'd be happy. Or a 5% rof bonus to small hybrids. Really any bonus that would make sense would be nice. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.17 10:46:00 - [238] Jaguar Resistances not considered a bonus but part of the ships design (like hacs, command ships, etc). More CPU Higher base speed An extra midslot to give it the correct number of slots Minmatar Frigate bonus changed to 5% ROF and 5% tracking per level (i.e. same as the rifter) Assault Ships bonus changed to 5% damage and 10% falloff per level
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.01.17 12:51:00 - [239] Originally by: Sarmaul Jaguar Resistances not considered a bonus but part of the ships design (like hacs, command ships, etc). More CPU Higher base speed An extra midslot to give it the correct number of slots Minmatar Frigate bonus changed to 5% ROF and 5% tracking per level (i.e. same as the rifter) Assault Ships bonus changed to 5% damage and 10% falloff per level /signed Wolf More grid (+10 - no other 'tier 2' AF has any problems fitting whatever it wants) Minmatar Frigate bonus changed to 5% damage and 5% rof per level ( Min ships with no double bonus are generally gimped) Assault ships bonus unchanged Harpy +1 missile hardpoint, -1 launcher hardpoint (doesnt need 4 missile slots, no other 'tier 1' AF gets to fit 4 of its main gun) Caldari Frigate bonus changed to 5% missile RoF and 5% flight time Assault Ships bonus changed to 5% kinetic damage and 5% shield boost per level Testy's Eve Blog
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.01.17 13:13:00 - [240] Originally by: Testy Mctest Harpy +1 missile hardpoint, -1 turret hardpoint (doesnt need 4 missile slots, no other 'tier 1' AF gets to fit 4 of its main gun) 4 launchers would be nice tbh. I still think that the jaguar should be proficient in both long and short range, and the hawk needs another slot (5th med) PS: corrected launcher for turret =P ---------------- Originally by: Abdalion Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.

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