i did not mean tank vrs tracking... you said that tracking does not affect blasters and only rails... that was the wtf moment.

personally i would switch falloff for tracking and give it some sort of armor per level bonus for the mwd bonus.

This is what I would like to see, from the last thread.

Gallente Cruiser
+5% Armor HP per Level
+5% Medium Hybrid Damage per level.
Heavy Assault Ships
+7.5% medium hybrid tracking per level
+7.5% medium hybrid rate of fire per level.

Seriously, you view 25% more range (with the same flight time) for your high damage short range weapons system as a useless bonus?

Now, I'll agree I'd prefer perhaps a bonus that allowed them to apply that damage better... especially since a range bonus would be of more benefit to a faster hull.... but I don't find that bonus to be useless. Sometimes getting in range with a Sac can be problematic.

Wow ! I'm realizing people are complaining about the Deimos losing a utility high slot for a mid slot...

Then, I understand why CCP is rather conservative in these changes. The ships are mostly only better than before in a lot of ways, and yet people cry, and often for no real reason, like the Sacrilege capacitor or the Vagabond shield boost bonus.

I'm losing hope for humanity.

Wow ! I'm realizing people are complaining about the Deimos losing a utility high slot for a mid slot...

Then, I understand why CCP is rather conservative in these changes. The ships are mostly only better than before in a lot of ways, and yet people cry, and often for no real reason, like the Sacrilege capacitor or the Vagabond shield boost bonus.

I'm losing hope for humanity.

Don't be assholes guys. They're clearly trying to iterate towards a solution that works for as many people as possible. No balance pass is going to make everyone happy.

That being said, there are a lot of improvements that could be made to this current iteration. The Sac changes proposed by Sarkelias come to mind. The weird bonuses on the Ishtar as well. The sig explosions from T1 to T2, specifically on the Deimos but on other HACs as well just don't make sense. The Eagle is still a red-headed step child. It's not fast enough to kite (and its damage is aneimic), its sig + shield tanking reduce the effectiveness as an up close brawler.

Good steps, but at least another iteration to go still.

Not hardly, simply saying something is true without posting any actual facts doesn't actually make it real, and in this case you're wrong.



Survivability in a game dominated by group alpha is laughable.

Speed when they are matched or outpaced by t1 cruisers that cost 1/15th of their hull price is laughable

Better EWAR stats when the EWAR game for jamming is a joke of a game of chance meaning that even if your SS was 10 million theres still a chance that a single light EC-300 jams you

I wont even touch the cap comment since its just silly, cap isn't a problem until it is and then you fit an injector and its not again

They already perform well in a gang, that gang is called armor HACs, and thats largely the only role they're used in simply because you dont skirmish in a 150 million isk hull when you can get the same or better results in either a 10 million isk t1 cruiser hull or a 60 million isk ABC hull.

We're not complaining about the ishtar, which is being buffed in reasonable and powerful ways. The deimos isn't getting that kind of love however.

Diminishing Returns: T1 Cruiser Hull - 10 Mil. Faction Navy Cruiser Hull - 50-100 mil, T2 HAC - 150 mil. Check.

Wow ! I'm realizing people are complaining about the Deimos losing a utility high slot for a mid slot...

Then, I understand why CCP is rather conservative in these changes. The ships are mostly only better than before in a lot of ways, and yet people cry, and often for no real reason, like the Sacrilege capacitor or the Vagabond shield boost bonus.

I'm losing hope for humanity.

Diminishing Returns: T1 Cruiser Hull - 10 Mil. Faction Navy Cruiser Hull - 50-100 mil, T2 HAC - 150 mil. Check.

no seriously guys think about it.

what is missing from hacs? resilience.

so its role bonus should help it add that.

but a 37.5% reduction in heat damage to modules. would do this!

need to have that mwd with heat on to win that fight now you can last longer

need that extra dps for fleets now you can hit harder

need that extra ehp from resist mods now you can be hit longer

Yup, and the Ishtar was already reasonably powerful, and yet it receive the Dominix treatment. It's rather scary in fact.

The new mid slot for the Deimos can account for almost whatever it could need. Asking for a tracking bonus on top of it is understandable as it would be insanely powerful, but 7 (seven !) low slots ?! Come on...

What is a bit comical in all these balancing thread is that gallente pilots are asking for more low slots and despise mid slots when amarr pilots are begging for more mid slots from all their heart. No wonder why people don't understand why gallente ship have blasters and armor tank : what they need is an "I win" button with shiny graphics and nothing else will satisfy them.

They would still lack the EHP and DPS to be practical.

+7.5% medium hybrid rate of fire per level
i would then reduce to 4 turrets but keep 5 high slots so its gets a high slot back... think of it as a mini mega.

Nobody's complaining about the Deimos losing a utility high by itself. The ship needed an extra mid and the slot had to come from somewhere -- unless CCP is willing to budge and give the entire class +1 slots overall, which might be a good idea but seems unlikely. The problem is that the ship was underpowered to begin with, so a series of 1:1 trade-offs (one slot for one slot, more speed for less ehp, etc.) are not the balance change it needs.

It's irritating (though not surprising) that when people see Gallente ships finally being brought up to par, they scream "overpowered" just because they're not used to them being competetive.

I'm not too concerned with a utility high slot, I just don't like the falloff bonus and the MWD cap bonus, in my opinion, is not terrible it would be better served as a armor HP bonus.

T1 cruiser with Performance=X: 10Mil.
Navy cruiser with performance=1.4 * X: 50-100Mil.
T2 HAC with performance = 1.15 * X: 150-180Mil.
The diminishing returns argument does not hold for the HAC lineup.

i like the options that a utility gives. the updated nos would be key on this deimos setup or a nuet or a cyno or a cloak or a scan probe launcher or a salvager or tractor beam... especially if the role bonus was switched to 37.5% reduction in heat damage to modules.

personally i am a big fan of the new mega. and i would make the diemos a mini mega.

But, this is a T2 ship, which are supposed to be specialized, the mega is a T1 ship where you are supposed to have lots of options.
I would support the thorax to become a mini mega though.

Yes people are complaining about the high to mid slot of the Deimos.
Anyway, what would it need to have satisfying performances for you ? Yes, it's not exactly 50% better than a Talos, yet it's better than a Talos in a number of ways -- in fact, it only lack dps compared to it, but is better at everything else.

It's not better than a Talos. It has inferior range, inferior damage, inferior speed, and while it has a superior tank the range at which it has to engage renders that point moot.