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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
1846
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Why is a tracking bonud compelling on a thorax but not a diemos?
Because Thorax doesn't also have a falloff bonus and a second damage bonus. The combination would just be way too much on the Deimos.
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Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
132
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
I see a muninn with a lockrange almost matching tremorrange \o/
I really LOVE the decision to boost their capacitors, it's one crucial trait of the T1/Navy cruisers they are lacking. +1 for perma-mwd-hacs!
It actually looks a lot like Cerberus might become a thing (with RLML), but that's just my impression.
One of the big winners of that rebalance might be (imo) the vaga, with adjusted cap.
I only correct my own spelling. |
Mariner6
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
170
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:19:00 -
[63] - Quote
Ishtar looks interesting and all around better. But as mentioned it benefits at best from only 3 bonuses at any one time. And if your using medium drones then only two...but I guess if you want it to specialize in this way that's ok I suppose, will have to see how it plays out.
The Diemost is a bit weak. Really looks to be the one boat that needed a bit of help and frankly the targeting range bonus is not really that much of a benefit, except to perhaps counter damps a bit and rail fits. But if you want to rail gun it then fly an eagle. Biggest issue here is as a brawler reducing the tank makes this boat too squishy. The speed boost is nice but you all hit it way too hard in the ehp.
1. Restore the ehp
3. Replace the MWD cap bonus with a bonus to AB speed. This would really make the diemos unique and make it a dual prop monster that benefits as it burns into the brawl from the role bonus and can then power with enough speed in close with the AB and blasters hammering. (though it may struggle to track but that can be managed with some buddy team TP's and webs. ) |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
1846
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:Why does the sacrilege only get a 5%/level missile velocity bonus when all other range-bonused missile hulls get 10%?
To be honest I'm surprised this got through without any of us catching it. Switched it to 10% Thanks.
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W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
95
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Tsubutai wrote:Why does the sacrilege only get a 5%/level missile velocity bonus when all other range-bonused missile hulls get 10%? To be honest I'm surprised this got through without any of us catching it. Switched it to 10% Thanks.
Why do you think a range bonus on the sacri would be a good idea (keep in mind that hmls are almost completely useless)? |
Angry Mustache
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
62
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:24:00 -
[66] - Quote
Akimo Heth wrote:Capqu wrote:
preach it
the cerb would be too strong if it didnt have SOME kind of weakness, and kinetic damage is a small price to pay for 350 perfectly applied dps @ 105k while cruisin' at 2kms
Learn how explosion velocity works and how it is really low on HM's preventing "perfectly applied dps" @ 105k on a non-stationary target.
I believe capqu is talking about the RLML version of the Cerberus, which can indeed hit out to about 90 with light missiles for 300 DPS. given the extreme precision of light missiles, 380 @ 71 doesn't seem too unreasonable either with furies.
http://themittani.com -á- your one stop site for all News Eve Related |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations
Surely You're Joking
107
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:26:00 -
[67] - Quote
Move the diemost tank out of structure and shield and put it in the armor. It makes it possible to brawl the ship and not get alpha off the field, also if people raill/shield fit it. Well some inane ball of fire reference. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
Verge of Collapse
642
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Alright, I did some EFTWarrioring on the Vagabond.
Here are the possible fits :
Dual LSE ie the Regular Vagabond. Needs a PWG implant and there is no way it can fit 425mms, of course.
XLASB, MWD + AB + WD with Dual 180mms. Still needs a 1% CPU implant even at all V with meta 4 gear.
LASB, ShieldBoostAmplifier, Disruptor MWD with 220mms. It fits confortably, but it's worse than every other Vagabond fits.
Pith *-Type Large Shield booster, medium capbooster, MWD, Disrupt with 220mms and no neutra.
The Dual LSE one is outclassed by every kiting platform right now. Outclassed by the Talos, by the new Cerberus and by the Cynabal of course.
The XLASB thingy is a kiting thing. It works because of the ASB, not because of the hull. It's sort of workable but 180mm guns really are pathetic if you want to kite.
LASB version is ********.
Pith *-type version should work but yeah, buy a Cynabal instead.
The Vagabond needs some help, because right now it's really lackluster compared to everything else.
Either go -1 highslot + 1 medslot and make it a true shield HAC, or give it a good PWG boost so that a XLASB + 220mm fit is possible. Short of that, there is no job a Vagabond does a Cynabal doesn't do better. |
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
Liandri Covenant
46
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:29:00 -
[69] - Quote
Capqu wrote:
preach it
the cerb would be too strong if it didnt have SOME kind of weakness, and kinetic damage is a small price to pay for 350 perfectly applied dps @ 105k while cruisin' at 2kms
Delayed paper DPS |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
95
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
Also in case anyone cares, try flying a kiting ship when something like that is going to exist
http://i.imgur.com/omX9rre.png (no cap/sensor strenght changes yet; no it will have even better cap).
Thats 98k ehp after the booster is dry (4.25*9*2117 + 17754 = 98729.25). |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
6811
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Tsubutai wrote:Why does the sacrilege only get a 5%/level missile velocity bonus when all other range-bonused missile hulls get 10%? To be honest I'm surprised this got through without any of us catching it. Switched it to 10% Thanks. Why do you think a range bonus on the sacri would be a good idea (keep in mind that hmls are almost completely useless)?
Maybe because missile velocity bonuses are even more beneficial to HAM fits than to HML fits?
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
16
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Rise, pls.
4 mid muninn.
Pls. |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
188
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Why is a tracking bonud compelling on a thorax but not a diemos? Because Thorax doesn't also have a falloff bonus and a second damage bonus. The combination would just be way too much on the Deimos.
No it wouldn't. Seriously they are properly **** at the moment. Rails are getting their tracking nerfed a lot blasters on the diemos...might as well use a proteus or a brutix navy. Moving the Deimos into a rail ship would be a nice niche for it and the tracking bonus would be useful there.
I will bare my arse on an Icelandic winter if giving it a 7.5%/lvl tracking bonus makes them the FOTM.
Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
132
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
Allandri wrote:Capqu wrote:
preach it
the cerb would be too strong if it didnt have SOME kind of weakness, and kinetic damage is a small price to pay for 350 perfectly applied dps @ 105k while cruisin' at 2kms
Delayed paper DPS
6-10 seconds delayed 98.5% applied though. No one ever talked about fitting HAMS or HMLs to a cerb. This is 2013!
I only correct my own spelling. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project
Surely You're Joking
210
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Also in case anyone cares, try flying a kiting ship when something like that is going to exist http://i.imgur.com/omX9rre.png (no cap/sensor strenght changes yet; no it will have even better cap). Thats 98k ehp after the booster is dry (4.25*9*2117 + 17754 = 98729.25).
Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project
Surely You're Joking
210
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Alright, I did some EFTWarrioring on the Vagabond.
Here are the possible fits :
Dual LSE ie the Regular Vagabond. Needs a PWG implant and there is no way it can fit 425mms, of course.
XLASB, MWD + AB + WD with Dual 180mms. Still needs a 1% CPU implant even at all V with meta 4 gear.
LASB, ShieldBoostAmplifier, Disruptor MWD with 220mms. It fits confortably, but it's worse than every other Vagabond fits.
Pith *-Type Large Shield booster, medium capbooster, MWD, Disrupt with 220mms and no neutra.
The Dual LSE one is outclassed by every kiting platform right now. Outclassed by the Talos, by the new Cerberus and by the Cynabal of course.
The XLASB thingy is a kiting thing. It works because of the ASB, not because of the hull. It's sort of workable but 180mm guns really are pathetic if you want to kite.
LASB version is ********.
Pith *-type version should work but yeah, buy a Cynabal instead.
The Vagabond needs some help, because right now it's really lackluster compared to everything else.
Either go -1 highslot + 1 medslot and make it a true shield HAC, or give it a good PWG boost so that a XLASB + 220mm fit is possible. Short of that, there is no job a Vagabond does a Cynabal doesn't do better.
This is what needs to happen ^
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
122
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:38:00 -
[77] - Quote
Looks a lot better. Liking the stronger caps, more fitting and the more useful bonuses particularly on the Ishtar/Sacrilege.
I'm slightly torn on the missile speed bonus for the Sac though, part of me would like something for damage application instead of range. But I'm happy with either!
Any chance of an extra 1-2% cpu + grid on the Zealot to make it less of a squeeze even with perfect skills? |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
Urine Alliance
219
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
I think by adding a strong missile velocity bonus to the sacrilege you'll kind of cancel out the fact that it can now also fit heavy missiles. Other than that, these changes are amazing, and I'll be rolling my Ishtars out a hell of a lot more, and the Vagabonds too.
Is this 7.5% optimal and tracking bonus a prelude to what will happen to the Dominix? I don't see this 10% bonus (utterly brutal) surviving much longer past the Alliance Tournament. |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
95
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:39:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Maybe because missile velocity bonuses are even more beneficial to HAM fits than to HML fits?
Your not going to kite with hams in a sac, and without webs on your primary the dps is terrible.
M1k3y Koontz wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:Also in case anyone cares, try flying a kiting ship when something like that is going to exist http://i.imgur.com/omX9rre.png (no cap/sensor strenght changes yet; no it will have even better cap). Thats 98k ehp after the booster is dry (4.25*9*2117 + 17754 = 98729.25). Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.
Yes, 17k ehp (more then a omen or a stabber) is totally going to get alphaed, if you dont like the implants, drop a low or a rigslot.
And no a cynabal can never match that, dont talk out of your ass. |
Deirdre Anethoel
Antimatter Delivery Inc.
4
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
- Rapid light missile cerberus might be too much on small scale engagements. Damage applied perfectly to frigates, huge range and good speed may be too much.
- Sacrilege still can't use RLM, could be an interesting option. The missile velocity bonus makes it way too similar to other, existing ships to my taste too. More damage or a explosion radius or speed bonus could have been good to keep it's specificities.
- The eagle is still bad because it doesn't have a role. Two optimal bonuses is awful for a brawling ship, and the resist bonus is bad for a sniping ship. It could be interesting to sneak a falloff bonus somewhere in here to make it viable with blasters too, offering the opportunity to play it as a brawler. Or a tracking bonus strong enough to make medium railguns viable at medium range to make sure it can be used as a tanky fleet ship? Because I don't really have any hope for it as a sniper, with tier3 BCs around.
- Vagabond is going to break the very small scale engagement balance, and especially solo. It was already used here sometimes, and is going to be the best ship by far. Imagine a cynabal with a bonus to ancillary shield boosters. Yes, it won't impact on it's larger
- The munnin suffers from the same problem as the eagle, but here, the conflict lies between the bonuses (sniping oriented) and the slot layout (no, armor snipers aren't viable, and yes, 3 mid slots is low). It also suffers from the comparison with tier3 BCs. |
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SerratedX
Fistful of Finns
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
23
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:39:00 -
[81] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.
W0lf is a well known troll on the FHC forums, its better just to ignore everything he says. |
Capqu
Love Squad
185
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
ATTN CERBERUS USERS
stop talking about things that aren't rapid lights, t i a
http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
progodlegend
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
135
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:42:00 -
[83] - Quote
Arrgthepirate wrote:I'm really excited about the Eagle, Ishtar, and Vagabond. However, I feel that the kinetic damage bonus on the Cerebus is another relic of the past. Can't it just be a slightly reduced bonus to all missile damage?
Consider Caldari ships lucky that they atleast have the option to use different damage types if they so choose.
Lasers and Hybrids are stuck doing a certain damage type that is overall pretty easy to tank if you want to. It would be pretty unbalanced to have every missile ship be able to choose their own damage type. |
Dave PSI
Haendlergilde
Gilde Alliance
11
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:44:00 -
[84] - Quote
The Eagle is still as bad as it is since the Armor buff for all ships years ago. Back in the days, it was possiblke to 1-2 volley frigs.
It simply needs a second damage bonus (like every other HAC) to be used again. Replace the "4% bonus to shield resistances" with it, since tank isn't that important for a sniper.
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
612
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:44:00 -
[85] - Quote
Jackie Fisher wrote:
Although heading in the right direction I feel the original Domi like 10% to all drone tracking and optimal and a separate 7.5% to drone speed would be more flexible and simpler without being OTT.
Domi is already OP, i dont see why the ishtar should improve on it. |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
97
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
SerratedX wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.
W0lf is a well known troll on the FHC forums, its better just to ignore everything he says.
Im never troling in regards of ship fittings and balance issues, kiting at the moment sucks, everything got a lot faster and everything can now project damage very well, afs got buffed, abcs are incredible anti kiting platforms (as are all bs), medium guns now all reach 20+ k range. A vagabond gets easily outdps by a rail thorax a omen and even a stabber has pretty much the same dps.
It sucks as a pure kiter, it now will be a very good anti kiter and a good brawling ship in general but tis kiting abilitys still suck, a vaga should be able to push 300+ dps with turrets at 40km, no 150. |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
189
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Yes, 17k ehp (more then a omen or a stabber) is totally going to get alphaed, if you dont like the implants, drop a low or a rigslot.
And no a cynabal can never match that, dont talk out of your ass.
Considering one shield boost cycle basically fills your entire shield, you have to let your shield run to 0 before you boost or you're just wasting boost and when you're at low shields, yes you are one nado hit+ a little bit more from being alpha'd.
The cynabal gets an extra mid, an extra rig and a whole lot more fitting. If you use that extra mid on a shield boost amp, which co-incidentally gives you almost the same bonus as the 7.5%/lvl, you can fit a similar ship. The cargo hold on the cynabal is the only annoyance.
[Cynabal, X:L ASB Dual Prop.]
Internal Force Field Array I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Dread Guristas Co-Processor
10MN Afterburner II
Gistum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II
Even gets the ability to kite.
Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project
Surely You're Joking
210
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:47:00 -
[88] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Maybe because missile velocity bonuses are even more beneficial to HAM fits than to HML fits?
Your not going to kite with hams in a sac, and without webs on your primary the dps is terrible. M1k3y Koontz wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:Also in case anyone cares, try flying a kiting ship when something like that is going to exist http://i.imgur.com/omX9rre.png (no cap/sensor strenght changes yet; no it will have even better cap). Thats 98k ehp after the booster is dry (4.25*9*2117 + 17754 = 98729.25). Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less. Yes, 17k ehp (more then a omen or a stabber) is totally going to get alphaed, if you dont like the implants, drop a low or a rigslot. And no a cynabal can never match that, dont talk out of your ass.
The fact that the Vaga is square-peg-round-holed into a single fit that is tight beyond what most pilots can fit that has to run with 3 implants, drugs, and overheat everything just to get those numbers is pitiful.
Look at the other HACs, none of them have such tight fittings, none of them have to fly with so many implants, none of htem have to overheat all their mods and use boosters, hoping they don't get side effects, just to get a decent fit.
The Vaga needs a buff, and that "fit" isn't what the Vaga should be.
Edit: And you're boosting all of your shields in one boost, tell me again how that won't get alpha'd? Oh yea, it will get alpha'd, that or it will lose some of that mythical 98k EHP.
Lost the ASB bonus on the Vaga, give it another range bonus or tracking bonus, give it another mid. Then it won't suck.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project
Surely You're Joking
210
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:48:00 -
[89] - Quote
SerratedX wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.
W0lf is a well known troll on the FHC forums, its better just to ignore everything he says.
That's what I figured, thanks.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
613
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:49:00 -
[90] - Quote
Akturous wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Yes, 17k ehp (more then a omen or a stabber) is totally going to get alphaed, if you dont like the implants, drop a low or a rigslot.
And no a cynabal can never match that, dont talk out of your ass.
Considering one shield boost cycle basically fills your entire shield, you have to let your shield run to 0 before you boost or you're just wasting boost and when you're at low shields, yes you are one nado hit+ a little bit more from being alpha'd. The cynabal gets an extra mid, an extra rig and a whole lot more fitting. If you use that extra mid on a shield boost amp, which co-incidentally gives you almost the same bonus as the 7.5%/lvl, you can fit a similar ship. The cargo hold on the cynabal is the only annoyance. [Cynabal, X:L ASB Dual Prop.] Internal Force Field Array I Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Dread Guristas Co-Processor 10MN Afterburner II Gistum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 Shield Boost Amplifier II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II Even gets the ability to kite.
t2 resists
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