The high sensor strengh alone is a huge buff and will make HAC's the most resilient Combat ships against ECM (ab)use. It's not a huge niche, but they at last finaly have a niche

Also like the other changes, looks much bether than the first draft.

MUNINN

Lowering Signature Radius a bit but no large changes here.

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty

Minmatar Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret optimal range
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 6H(-1), 3M, 6L(+1); 5 turrets, 1 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 1160 PWG, 355 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1580(-2) / 2000(-4) / 1400(-6)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 1300(+50) / 255s (-80s) / 5.1/s (+1.4)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 210(+14) / .571 / 11750000 / 9.3s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80km(+25km) / 294 / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 21 Ladar(+8)
Signature radius: 125(-5)

Thank you for giving a bonus to a ship (vagabond) when we minmatar players said that it wasn't needed and we would like more to remain a skirmish ship, basically saying "hey guys you can still fly and dont use the bonus" is completely ******** and basically telling us to f*** off .

I find it funny also that you want us to shield tank and be awesome with only 4 meds , i mean 2 are used for a MWD and the booster that leaves us with what 2 other mids to what ? 1 point and another slot to put a tank? Or you want us to dual+º+º tank using our 5 lows?

Because 500 dps without using a single pg or cpu are so not worth giving up a slot for....

the sac still sucks, it either dosnt have enough tank or not enough dps.

move the utility high to an extra low.

love this ship, but you are not fixing it enough to make it worth flying

Sure if you only fly nullsec blobs. How about solo small gang FW? Anyway, firewall is an imperfect solution to no specific missile defense ewar. Firewalling did not kill off the Drake omnipresence. It was the HM and ship changes that finally put it in its place. Meanwhile smarties have always been a better drone defense.

Because Thorax doesn't also have a falloff bonus and a second damage bonus. The combination would just be way too much on the Deimos.

You want to realpost?

The drake was abusive because it was a ridiculously cheap platform with average DPS and a decidedly above average tank. The Tengu (HML tengu especially) was abusive because of a miniscule sig radius, exceptional speed with AB, and a ridiculously large tank.

The Cerberus gets some of these - speed, damage and sig similar to the Tengu, but considerably lower EHP, cheaper than the Tengu but quite a bit more expensive than the drake. It's certainly strong, but probably okay.

@ CCP


so you wont fix the vagabond problem that it has to use barrage to do any dmg?
this problem keeps it from fullfilling its role as point range kiter, but it seems you feel diffrent about this.

and i strongly believe the stats of beeing one of the most used cruisers is just an afterglow of its former glorious days

Fair enough... Though I would have loved to see a heat reduction bonus like on the t3 subsystem. Something like 5% per level... That would give the ship some staying power without op it.

I dunno maybe its just me but having a bonus just for mwd kinda pigeon holes the ship to mwd only.

Sure, keep defending what you know you will be blobbing with next . . I suppose I would too in your position. But maybe step back and have some concern for the game as a whole? Is that too much to a . . nm

This would be amazing! Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure this pass is the one we're going to be stuck with.

However, I don't think pigeon-holing the Deimos into a MWD setup is all that bad IF it had the ehp to actually brawl, since we all know on TQ currently the Deimos is considered *the* most overpowered, heaviest tanking, best brawling HAC around (/sarcasm). But given that Rise dramatically cut down its hp amounts for lolshield hp, Deimos will likely retain its moniker of Diemost.

[b]VAGABOND

...
The other big problem with the Vaga is the Cynabal. That is not a problem we want to address by having an arms race between the two during this rebalance. The Cynabal needs a look and I'm sure when we get to pirate cruisers we can solve the problem.

Because Thorax doesn't also have a falloff bonus and a second damage bonus. The combination would just be way too much on the Deimos.

Good luck with that. Cynabal and vaga are almost identical ships that are currently stuck in the same exact role. The vaga, due to its reisists, was the one that could have more easilly broke out of the mold to allow it a brawler role. Now cynabals are obsolete until they are buffed to make vagas obsolete. If you try to buff cynabals to the point they can break out of that role they will just be op.

Other than that these ships are looking really good. Finally they are worth the isk. Yes even the vaga now that it is a better cynabal for less isk.

...On the right is after the role bonus. You can see that the Zealot, which tracks extremely well, isn't heavily affected, but the Talos and the Drake lose about 25% of their DPS.....

For the Deimos we are bumping the speed up some more, lowering the Signature Radius slightly and of course adding the electronics and cap changes. We did look closely at the MWD cap use bonus and in the end decided that there wasn't any replacement compelling enough to warrant a change.

Did u guys just killed the active tank sac?

The sac recharge rate is actually wrong in the OP, will fix it. Forgot to adjust it after we removed the bonus.

The Cerberus kinetic bonus is not a relic in the same way that the Sacrilege recharge bonus or the Ishtar drone bay bonus were. We talked a lot about the role of damage specific bonuses with the CSM, as they raised the same concerns. Its obvious that the bonus is a bit of a handicap from the perspective of the Cerberus pilot, but we like the gameplay it adds and so we would only want to remove it if the Cerb was really needing more power, which isn't the case.

Knowing what kind of damage your opponent is likely to do is just as interesting as knowing which kind of damage your opponent is likely to be weak to. It lets creates interesting decisions for both the Cerb pilot and the Cerb's opponents and we like that.