Having two ships that fit the same role doesn't make one obsolete. The Navy Raven serves the same purpose as the Raven with some added benefit. Ditto the Navy Mega and Mega. How abouy the Comet? Or the Navy Slicer? All of these fill the same purpose as another ship. The benefit to the Vigilant is the web bonus and role bonus to damage. It's a ship that allows a pretty new player to put out Deimos-like numbers without the training time of a HAC. That benefit comes at a high isk cost.

The Deimos, from the beginning, was supposed to be the ultimate blaster cruiser. Read its description. The Vigilant can do it, too, just in a different way for a different kind of player.

All HACs will gain 7-8 sensor strength, putting their average Sensor Strength at 22 which is right around combat battleship range.
All HACs gain 15k to 25k lock range
All HACs have their cap recharge per second set to around 5.5 rather than the former 3.5 - 4.5 cap/sec

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty

+25% more DMG
+25% more range
+harder to jamm
+ more tank
+ better cap

Sweet, your Deimos costs 15x as much as your Thorax and only does 150 dps more while having just under twice as much HP.
(that hp is crap fyi)
Oh, and the t1 Thorax is faster.

Sounds like a solid investment.

I don't think people were saying they didn't do more DPS than a T1, they were more looking at the chances of applying that damage and the price of the hull. Right now the Demois will struggle to apply DPS for 100mil ISK more, also why the web scam on the Thorax and not dual LSE like on the Deimos. If you are going to copy-cat fits then do it.

But still to go 100ms faster with only 125 DPS less I'll still still fly the Thorax for bigging 150mil isk cheaper. Since you like fit you can look at this one.

---

MAX DPS EVI
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

5x Hobgoblin II

2154M/s
882 DPS
23.4k EHP
4.04+4.4 Range
___________________-
Is it T1 yes, Does it out DPS the Deimos (but without the Hammerhead IIs it would) :-) ) Price tag 127 mil, Deimos price tag 175mil. So why should I pay the extra 50mil where there is no really benefit. That is what people are talking about, the Navy Cruisers are better HACS than the HACS.

Hello again
Thank you CCP Rise, that you have reconsider your changes to the HAC class.
1-st post was looking so promising ... THEN FAIL!!!

Thank you for wasting my time.
You can fly your new HAC your self... I personally will not Pay 150+ mil isk for ship:

Slower then or equal to T1
Less DMG then or equal to T1

Because that 1 ship is never going to have backup, that never happens in EVE like ever.

Hannott Thanos learn to play the game first then you can talk about fits and ships. noob!

But is can not catch my target it is useless, only thing the Deimos will out run is an afterburner Maller, which will still kill it. You don't have better projection cause you won't catch anything. That still is not enough pay 50mil-120mil more for.

Swap a TE for a nano, and you have 3002 m/s overloaded. 2744 m/s without nano. The AB Maller goes 489/627 m/s. That comparison is beyond any reason and have no grasp in reality.

If you can't catch anything with a ship that goes 3km/s (3230 with cheap implants) then you have my sympathies.

Hello again

Thank you CCP Rise, that you have reconsider your changes to the HAC class.
1-st post was looking so promising ... THEN FAIL!!!

Thank you for wasting my time.
You can fly your new HAC your self... I personally will not Pay 150+ mil isk for ship:

Slower then or equal to T1
Less DMG then or equal to T1

Sure I am happy, that falcons will have hard time jamming it !

Example:
Deimos: Nice you changed it to a shield ship, however it only takes one Nado to and one shot. Thank you :)
Also the lack of tracking bonus mean that the TORAX t1 variant will project its dps much better!! And we all know Torax has the same dps as the T2 ship... nice!

So tell me why should i buy 1x 150 mil Deimos instead of taking 5x Torax (30mil with the t2 fit ) ?

PLease tell me more about how other players have an advantage over you because they might bring friends to a fight that you did not.

Deimos has more tank, can fit 250mm rails = more dps and range, better cap and sensors in a fit that is as fast as a Thorax.
Arty Nado needs two perfect shots to pop a Deimos, unfortunately it does about 0 dps against a moving Deimos inside point range.

The suggested shield rail Deimos is not a bad ship, it's like the ubiquitous Talos, just nastier in every aspect, tears will ensue.

For blasters there are better ships.

Deimos seems to project better than Thorax and Talos against small targets, and equal to Talos against big targets at long point range. I'm not arguing EFT graphs until I get to test the new Deimos with new rails, on paper it does look good.

Im not saying that, Im saying your fit is impractical for fighting more than one person, and is therefore not really practical for use at all.

But does it project better EVI. I don't that this does, which still stands that some of the Navy Ships are better HACs than the HACs.

But you do put up a good point, when are these ships going to be on SiSi.

Well, then use another fit?

People complain in the first turn that a Talos can kill it too easily, then when countered by a fit that would kill a Talos they say that the fit is not viable because the Talos is not alone. What?

These new changes seem a bit more reasonable but i think the Ishtar needs a bit more work.

Maybe CCP want to force the ishtar into a shield role but i'd prefer it to be an armour tanker just like all the other Gallente ships. For that to happen, it need drone damage and hitpoint bonuses not tracking. The pilot can then use its low slots for tank and its med slots for drone tracking/range/speed.

Also has anyone calculated how OP the sacrilege will be now?

I'm assuming you are talking about the NEX(Navy EXequror)? Or is EVI something else?

The NEX is better in some areas, the Deimos is better in a whole lot of other areas which I just pointed out.

there's no favorable position in which the Vagabond can reload its tank for 60s and still maintain tackle or damage. That's not skill related, that's basic PVP mechanic limits.

The only way it could work would be if vaga lost a low slot for a mid so that it can fit 2 Large ASB.

In fact that makes easier to adjkust its PG and CPU so that It can fit this tank with 220mm guns while still not being able to fit stupid XL ASB (the loss of a low slot makes fittings pg AND cpu less variable)

Well, it depends. Do your opponents have OGB with skirmish links? If yes, then yes the range bonus is useless, because anything BC size and down not webbed and/or scrammed will take next to no damage from your HAMs anyway.

HAMs are crippled by OGB more than any other weapon system due to the 4.8 damage reduction factor that results in an almost 1:1 ratio between decrease in sig and a decrease in damage, as well as an almost 1:1 ratio between an increase in speed and a decrease in damage.

Basically, against anything BC size and down, if its MWD is running and it's not webbed, skirmish links reduce HAM DPS by 50%. Yes, it's that bad.

How does the Vaga compare to the S.F.I.

One thing I think Really need to b done for sake of balance and coherence is. Give the HAcs the SAME HP pools of the t1 ships!

There is absolutely no excuse for not doing so. Otherwise the role of being a tough nut cruiser as you describe is impossible.


Just that. Same shields, Armor and hull.

I didn't mention the Talos at any point.

What are you talking about?