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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Gorgoth24
Sickology Dead Terrorists
47
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:51:00 -
[181] - Quote
Just as a first impression, all the initial problems I saw in these ships seemed to be addressed.
Lock range issues? All fleet tackle interceptors have 3 mids (point/prop/sebo) as armor boats and 4 slots (+1 mid for tank) on shield boats. So close range they can use scram/web and long range point/sebo. I like the tradeoff.
Mid slot issues? All the ships that need 3 mids are the long range ones and they have them. It's only the short range ones with 2.
Fitting woes? Buffed
I really think this is a solid pass on these ships. I doubt I'll be heard through all the lock range complaining, but I just thought it should be said.
Just PLEASE don't give these ships extra mids, especially the long ranged ones. Us lowsec pirates already have enough problems with OGB boosted, snaked, TD/Damp frigs everywhere. |
Kaz Mafaele
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
7
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:49:00 -
[182] - Quote
looks like a fun new wolf pack too me. One thing I don't understand what do people think they will being useing a solo fleet interceptor for the lock range is fine everyone should be used to fighting the extra lock range rig for when your useing a booster and the rest of the time you can solve your problem by assigning a squad leader. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
337
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:49:00 -
[183] - Quote
I don't know if anyone mentioned but I think they could use a bit more (minimum 36km with max skills)...
LOCK RANGE
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Hera Fyrestus
Men of the Knights Watch
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 17:57:00 -
[184] - Quote
Gorgoth24 wrote:Just as a first impression, all the initial problems I saw in these ships seemed to be addressed.
Lock range issues? All fleet tackle interceptors have 3 mids (point/prop/sebo) as armor boats and 4 slots (+1 mid for tank) on shield boats. So close range they can use scram/web and long range point/sebo. I like the tradeoff.
Mid slot issues? All the ships that need 3 mids are the long range ones and they have them. It's only the short range ones with 2. I've never been a fan of 2 mid ships, but I can definitely see how it works given how the crusader and claw are set up.
Fitting woes? Buffed
I really think this is a solid pass on these ships. I doubt I'll be heard through all the lock range complaining, but I just thought it should be said.
Just PLEASE keep in mind that any buff to mids or lock range is going to have an enormous impact on the lowsec frigate community. We already have enough OGB boosted, snaked, TD/Damp frigs without these guys being inadvertently buffed into that role.
I like this. |
Kazume Nakuo
Pixel Navigators
11
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Posted - 2013.10.03 20:55:00 -
[185] - Quote
Gorgoth24 wrote:I've never been a fan of 2 mid ships, but I can definitely see how it works given how the crusader and claw are set up. No offense ment here, but have you ever flown a Crusader? The only thing it's good at is killing T1 kiters and probably some of the other fleet inties ... it might be the case, that the combat inty was initially designed to counter a fleet interceptor, but if that's the only thing you can do with it, I predict not many people will hop into one in the future (so status quo actually). I do sometimes, but it's mainly because I love the looks and would love to make it work but the truth is, for almost every situation out there, another ship exists which is better.
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Major Killz
La Fraternite
240
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Posted - 2013.10.03 21:06:00 -
[186] - Quote
This wont reintroduced interceptors back into frigate combat dynamics. They've been completely overshadowed by their tech 1 counterparts.
There was a time not just 1 year and some months ago when ALL frigate classes were viable but no more... - Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2342
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Posted - 2013.10.03 22:41:00 -
[187] - Quote
yeah, why is their lock range so awful? i mean they can point further than they can lock.... seems silly. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Major Killz
La Fraternite
241
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Posted - 2013.10.03 22:58:00 -
[188] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:yeah, why is their lock range so awful? i mean they can point further than they can lock.... seems silly. Major Killz wrote:This wont reintroduced interceptors back into frigate combat dynamics. They've been completely overshadowed by their tech 1 counterparts. ceptors are not FOR frigate warfare, they are for fleet warfare and for that they are way better than anything else now. if you don't think so then you are severely underestimating the value of bubble immunity.
I suppose I am underestimating Interceptors but I thought I was doing so based on experience. You have shown me my error in thinking.
Please inform me in all honestly I'd like to know. How Interceptors immune to warp disruption bubbles will revolutionize warfare in eve.
Mind you. The changes to the Malediction and Crow alone will already increase their effectiveness in combat solo or in fleets, MINUS z immunity. Mind you, I have not found bubbles in of itself an issue when using a frigate in 0.0. Things like insta locking Rapiers, Lokis, Proteus and be more dangerous. Even offensively dropping bubbles on anything else and flying around them with interceptor while being able to leave said bubbles with little effort is already possible not.
NO. I find immunity would be more useful to a solo pilot instead of a fleet of frigates.
Anyway. Tell me what I'm not getting or understanding? Can a Sabre backed up by a fleet of 20 Oracles bubbles and hold down a fleet of 20 Condors? Same question but with a fleet of Harpies or Retributions?
note: that said I can see it revolutionizing life in 0.0 as far as traveling and it may be the prefered choice for avoiding engagements. - Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
Capqu
Love Squad
314
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Posted - 2013.10.03 23:21:00 -
[189] - Quote
it means you can warp to gates immediately while scouting even if they are out of dscan range. that's huge http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
Bud Tooper
The Suicide Kings
14
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Posted - 2013.10.03 23:30:00 -
[190] - Quote
What a let down. These ships need more lock range.
At all 5s a post-rubicon Stiletto still falls short of locking past the range of an overheated Warp Disruptor II.
Instead of giving us the illusion of choice why not drop a slot from each ship and roll the sensor buff into the hull?
Other ships that received the tiericide treatment were given the targeting range necessary to perform their role. Why is it suddenly a prohibitive balance issue for Interceptors? |
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Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
636
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Posted - 2013.10.04 00:56:00 -
[191] - Quote
So besides this super shuttle and super t2 ship, what else does this ship bring to the field?
What new role will this ship provide? None. T3 nullified already exists
maybe the interceptor gets a special mod that is able to point supers. Make them useful beyond conventional. It cannot deploy a field but a point that goes through the ewar invulnerability |
Major Killz
La Fraternite
241
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 01:11:00 -
[192] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:ITT people who haven't logged significant hours in a Crusader or 00 Interceptors for that matter And for the record, the Taranis *nerf* results in ~250 eHP less than current. That's hardly a nerf. Even in 00 where you don't have to deal with constant AB brawlers in still gets its ass handed to it by just about any other frigate (Assuming pilot skill is even) You know that. The #1 problem with the Crusader is the lack of fitting, NOT the lack of mids. The extra fitting means you can plate the ship for extra tank if you want, or you can fit top-tier weapons to relive days before the locus nerf. This is the first time a Crusader has been capable of easily breaking 300dps. It's also the fastest interceptor by a fair margin. Please trust me when I say that the Crusader will be one of the best (if not the best) dogfighters once again, and I'd happily engage a Taranis in one The CLAW on the other hand... Where the double damage bonus makes sense on the Taranis (super high damage, 3 mids), the Claw needs more. The simple solution isn't giving it another mid, but rather giving it a range bonus (falloff or optimal) in the available frigate bonus. I guess the tracking wouldn't be much of an issue in 00 unless you're up against a dual prop taranis.. But honestly i'm not seeing it.. Like, yes you will have a better tank than said taranis, but it will out track and gank you.. Also 300 dps? it only has a 5% damage bonus.. That won't be enough to bring it up to 300.. Maybe with conflag two heatsinks, heat and implants? I will admit that i haven't used it really due to my opinion that its garbage. But i do think i fly enough frigates to not be completely talking out of my ass here, i just really don't see how its a good ship.
Dude is suggesting a Crusader with 2 damage mods and damage rigs. Put on highest tier small lasers and cpu mods and it may need 1 rig for powergrid too. Then his numbers are some what accurate. Thing would have like 3500k ehp or what not and just a man size meta 4 damage control tank.
Aye to not being impressed and with the AAR on an Taranis it would be interesting to see. Hardly anything worth caring about though. BUT fu*k combat Interceptors anyway. I'll be in an assault frigate thank you very much or a Crow or Malediction running away in circles around you like a burning HO3. - Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
Rockstara
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
32
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Posted - 2013.10.04 01:53:00 -
[193] - Quote
So just as interdiction maneuvers link gives you a bonus to web and point range but not other ewar you should mix the interceptor changes with the ewar frig changes
fleet ceptors get a stronger scram/disruptor range like +10% / level (lock range can stay the same, there are modules to overcome it for long points)
combat ceptors get a web range bonus around 50%
these means you probably would need to adjust the keres and the hyena. |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
186
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Posted - 2013.10.04 03:13:00 -
[194] - Quote
Fozzie
1. Make the interdiction nulli be based on a RIG you can purchase and put on a interceptor only. This will cut down on some of the strength rigs will give this ship.
2. Make a warp disruptor mod that uses scripts that only a interceptor can use.
Scram Script- short range and 2 points
Disruptor script- Long Range 1 point
Focus Script- script like a focused beam can only be used on Titans and Super carriers
This will allow the captor to fit one mod freeing up other slots. he chooses what script based on course of action.
3. Defining the battle field is a must here. your changes are nice but the ship will still be useless in game except for a 0.0 to high sec shuttle. Any gang that roams the gates will kill this ship faster then his fleet can support him in his tackle ability. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
365
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 03:33:00 -
[195] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Fozzie
1. Make the interdiction nulli be based on a RIG you can purchase and put on a interceptor only. This will cut down on some of the strength rigs will give this ship.
2. Make a warp disruptor mod that uses scripts that only a interceptor can use.
Scram Script- short range and 2 points
Disruptor script- Long Range 1 point
Focus Script- script like a focused beam can only be used on Titans and Super carriers
This will allow the captor to fit one mod freeing up other slots. he chooses what script based on course of action.
3. Defining the battle field is a must here. your changes are nice but the ship will still be useless in game except for a 0.0 to high sec shuttle. Any gang that roams the gates will kill this ship faster then his fleet can support him in his tackle ability.
+1, would read again. |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
642
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 04:38:00 -
[196] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Fozzie
1. Make the interdiction nulli be based on a RIG you can purchase and put on a interceptor only. This will cut down on some of the strength rigs will give this ship.
2. Make a warp disruptor mod that uses scripts that only a interceptor can use.
Scram Script- short range and 2 points
Disruptor script- Long Range 1 point
Focus Script- script like a focused beam can only be used on Titans and Super carriers
This will allow the captor to fit one mod freeing up other slots. he chooses what script based on course of action.
3. Defining the battle field is a must here. your changes are nice but the ship will still be useless in game except for a 0.0 to high sec shuttle. Any gang that roams the gates will kill this ship faster then his fleet can support him in his tackle ability.
1. This argument doesn't make any sense. Are you against the bubble immunity or would you rather it be a rig if it needed to exist. In rig form you're limiting the number of possible fitting combinations. Hush and enjoy the intercepting bonus lol
3. You know the game is in a sad state when people think like this. ANY good interceptor pilot (regardless of region) will tell you that these changes (in addition to the warp speed changes) are enormous boosts for fleet (big & small) or solo operations.
2. This isn't an awful idea, but we've already got this sort of thing for HICtors. IMO if something like the HICtor module were to be scaled down to frigate-sized combat, it would be for the Interdiction class and not something as fast and mobile as Interceptors. -áwww.promsrage.com |
Meyr
SiN Corp
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 06:57:00 -
[197] - Quote
Almost got cranky about the Taranis, until I noticed the 10MB/m3 drone bay!
Again, job well done, Sir! |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
530
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 07:43:00 -
[198] - Quote
Meyr wrote:Almost got cranky about the Taranis, until I noticed the 10MB/m3 drone bay!
Again, job well done, Sir!
It's always had that.
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Ametyste Aek
Beer Spaceship and Baguette
3
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Posted - 2013.10.04 10:05:00 -
[199] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote: 3. You know the game is in a sad state when people think like this. ANY good interceptor pilot (regardless of region) will tell you that these changes (in addition to the warp speed changes) are enormous boosts for fleet (big & small) or solo operations
Note : i'm talking about fleet interceptor here, imho combat one are a whole other issue.
It could certainly have been worse, but in regard of what has been done for other ship classes, it's really nowhere as good. Allot of the previous re balancing or new ship introduction has been focused on giving players more options. Preventing in & inter race ship overlapping and they've been mostly successful since even if we have some ship fitting the meta better, we've seen an increased diversity.
With these change, you don't really address the issue that : all 4 fleet interceptors perform the same role in exactly the same way. In that regard if you don't give them specifics traits to makes them different in anything else but slot layout & hard stats.
If you give them each a different bonus to some tackling trait, you'll have real reason to want to fly some ceptor because it'll fit your gameplay or the situation better. Right now it's just going down to : which one will perform it's intended role better, and even if all 4 will do it well there's a clear winner here.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
792
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 10:13:00 -
[200] - Quote
Awesome, now one can fit the big pulses on the Crusader, do MOAR! paper damage and DIAF from only being able to apply a fraction of it due to tracking. DLP's with tracking bonus is just able to do the furball tango, no way in hell same will apply with bigger guns. resulting in extra fittings going unused if one want to actually hit stuff. Remove cap bonus (or see point three); - Gun count. - Some of extra fittings + Extra 5% damage or change to 7.5% RoF keeping cap bonus (depends on whether you actually want the Crusader to be on par with Taranis/Claw of course) + Dollop to base capacitor. = Tracking version of Slicer sans range. NOTE: It only has ONE midslot for Goddess sake, it needs at least the same considerations as the Claw to be competitive seeing as it has worse base tracking and a cap requirement for guns with the inherent vulnerability.
Why would anyone in their right mind ever fly the Malediction if the Gallente overbuff Ares is available?
Only minute variations in numbers throughout with both being equally proficient with rocks/missile but Ares has a built-in gun option while keeping its utility high.
Rocket crow will be devastating .. scram range out to max flight range, TD and ASB for tank. You sure you want to add tank and not remove some?
Raptor looks good provided it will have enough room to run some light rails and not pigeoned into blasters. Maybe make the gun bonuses 7.5/7.5 rather than 5/10, in the very least change damage to RoF .. it comes off as a "tanky interceptor" which is absurd.
Taranis as is, reckon you might even add a drone without doing harm assuming the horrible EC-XXX are finally removed from game or made relevant (read: balanced) again.
Ares gets the overbuff. Must have been hard to restrain yourselves and not do same to Taranis so kudos to you all It needs a sacrifice somewhere, saying that it is either gun boat or missile boat when both configs perform on equal terms with dedicated hulls is naff. Decide which toes to cut (ex. 50+% less cargo) and get to it ..
Claw and Stiletto not getting more than cosmetics is good, already incredibly strong (Claw) and versatile (Stiletto) largely due to capless weaponry. |
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Thom Mangum
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
0
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Posted - 2013.10.04 10:45:00 -
[201] - Quote
cool changes |
Capqu
Love Squad
317
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Posted - 2013.10.04 10:46:00 -
[202] - Quote
fleet bonuses and lock range - you claim links / the leadership skill will overcome the lock range issue, but a reasonable interceptor cannot rely on that. you will often be the first and only person into a system where you have to tackle someone (and surely, isn't this part of the interceptors intended role?) and thus not be receiving links or bonuses of any kind. since you have to fit in advance and cover all bases, there is no point in even mentioning links / sensor skill with regard to interceptors
its not a tradeoff when every single interceptor pilot fits 2 ionics or a sig amp, it just feels like bringing your ship to something that really should be baseline on the t2 class which is designed to be the best tackle in the game. all you are doing by keeping lock range low on the fleet tackle interceptors is removing customization options for a class which already hurts in that area
now im not advocating a huge buff, the interdiction nullification thing is insanely good and cuts down on scouting times massively plus the warp speed changes in ruby-con are hugely beneficial for interceptors. but please for the love of god, the quality of life change every interceptor pilot has been asking for is lock range, if you feel you have to tone down something else to give the tackle interceptors 35km base lock then so be it but don't pigeonhole them into fitting targeting range mods and act like its a cool tradeoff choice
http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
544
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 10:47:00 -
[203] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:So besides this super shuttle and super t2 ship, what else does this ship bring to the field?
What new role will this ship provide? None. T3 nullified already exists
maybe the interceptor gets a special mod that is able to point supers. Make them useful beyond conventional. It cannot deploy a field but a point that goes through the ewar invulnerability
I would nto count with that for long.. tiercide will eventually reach T3....
And those things will be obliterared.. |
Optimo Sebiestor
Bondage Goat Zombie Strictly Unprofessional
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 10:59:00 -
[204] - Quote
Love the changes
But give me more lock range |
Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Catastrophic Uprising
14
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Posted - 2013.10.04 11:47:00 -
[205] - Quote
Why split bonus to ARES? Better make it missile boat instead. Would be interesting. |
Capqu
Love Squad
319
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 11:57:00 -
[206] - Quote
oh hey i just noticed the -2 turrets on the malediction
please don't do that, being able to fit 125mm gattlings to kill drones was a nice option if you went with a dual prop fleet fit or something, it lacks fitting to do the same with rockets http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
351
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 12:11:00 -
[207] - Quote
Ametyste Aek wrote: I'd love to see racial bonuses for inties :
- Caldari : Bonus to lock range & scan res - Minmatar : Further decrease in signature while in MWD - Gallente : Bonus to Disrupt range - Amarr : Bonus to armor reps (allong with the current +4% resist)
This way you create diverse platforms, allowing a real choice and gameplay difference between them. Note that these are just proposition i though and should be brainstormed & considered, don't start arguing about why such bonus would be op and another useless, i brought these to make this point : InterRAcial Hull comformity is boring as ****, it doesn't bring anything to the table but a best in class performer in its intended role. Specialize further each hulls so they can bring something different.
I will support this if all you ever fly is Amarr inties only from now on. |
Major Killz
La Fraternite
242
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 12:57:00 -
[208] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Randy Wray wrote:The light missile condor was completely dominating facwar frigate pvp(and still kinda is) especially with links which made it able to orbit so far out and become so fast noone could ever hope of slingshotting it. Now you're making 3 ships that are essentially linked condors with the ganglinked point built into the hull. For the sake of the lowsec frigate community, which is huge atm, please rethink this.
Fozzie, about 6 months ago: Quote:Some of you will notice that there are certain imbalances that these changes do not fully rectify (for instance the current strength of light missile speed fits, the slight relative weakness of the Rifter, Breacher and the solo Punisher). We're hoping to smooth out a few of the rough edges via stat changes to the ships themselves, while some others will be addressed via changes to other parts of the metagame.
Light missiles would not be the only issue. While I was in factional warfare I put together another version of what would be a fleet of Crows. This was WAY BACK. I Theory crafted a Rail-Raptor setup that was capable of applying 75 damage per second up to 50,000m. I used rigs to increase locking range and added 2 Keres. Needless to say it was VERY EFFECTIVE. Rail-Harpies would probably still be better...
Anyway.
Unlike the other combat Interceptors the Raptor has MORE OPTION and circumvent anything significant done to "light missile interceptor setups". Not to mention with one MSE and blasters I'm fairly sure it would be capable of engaging A Lot more targets than any other interceptor based just on MORE TANK PLUS DAMAGE.
- Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
Major Killz
La Fraternite
242
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 13:05:00 -
[209] - Quote
Capqu wrote:fleet bonuses and lock range - you claim links / the leadership skill will overcome the lock range issue, but a reasonable interceptor cannot rely on that. you will often be the first and only person into a system where you have to tackle someone (and surely, isn't this part of the interceptors intended role?) and thus not be receiving links or bonuses of any kind. since you have to fit in advance and cover all bases, there is no point in even mentioning links / sensor skill with regard to interceptors
its not a tradeoff when every single interceptor pilot fits 2 ionics or a sig amp, it just feels like bringing your ship to something that really should be baseline on the t2 class which is designed to be the best tackle in the game. all you are doing by keeping lock range low on the fleet tackle interceptors is removing customization options for a class which already hurts in that area
now i'm not advocating a huge buff, the interdiction nullification thing is insanely good and cuts down on scouting times massively plus the warp speed changes in ruby-con are hugely beneficial for interceptors. but please for the love of god, the quality of life change every interceptor pilot has been asking for is lock range, if you feel you have to tone down something else to give the tackle interceptors 35km base lock then so be it but don't pigeonhole them into fitting targeting range mods and act like its a cool tradeoff choice
This is my standard Stiletto setup. The locking range is 40,000m and has 1,400 scan resolution. I also have set up the Ares, Malediction and Raptor in a similar way. You're even able to drop that warp scrambler and fit a sensor booster for an even HIGHER scan resolution. What's this locking range issue you speak of?
[Stiletto, Switchblade] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Shield Extender II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Warp Disruptor II
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Ionic Field Projector I Small Targeting System Subcontroller I - Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
87
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 13:46:00 -
[210] - Quote
What if interceptors were immune to warp scrambling, but lost a slot in exchange?
You can still web/disrupt/neut/jam them, but you can't disable their MWD. |
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