I don't know why but I was secretly hoping for Rocket Claw, but I guess the manufacturer doesn't match.

more lock range fozzie PLEASE for REAL

they have a 36k+ point
they go 6kms
it takes at least 2 seconds to lock and point due to server ticks
how can u ship them without 50k lock after skills

please dont make us fit 2 ionics for another 10 years, +2.5km is not enough for stiletto
you realise everyone is gonna just fly crows now instead of stilettos, because its the only tackle one with 4 mids and reasonable lock range. this doesnt fix anything it just shifts the problem

This.

You just exchanged the stiletto for the claw in all fleets solely due to its longer lock range.

Crow, not claw, Claw is still bad

easymode pwnfrigs that anyone can fly and win.

I'd love it if I could actually use interceptors.

Sadly however I am -10.0 and cannot ever use an interceptor to catch enemy fleets (which are always on gates/stations), because gateguns will blap me, and fozzie doesn't care because he is not a pirate.

my 0.02 isk.

I'd love it if I could actually use interceptors.

Sadly however I am -10.0 and cannot ever use an interceptor to catch enemy fleets (which are always on gates/stations), because gateguns will blap me, and fozzie doesn't care because he is not a pirate.

my 0.02 isk.

It's all about

MR CROW

Crusader is ok with 2 mids because of how lasers work. The claw does not have lasers.

Crusader is ok with 2 mids because of how lasers work. The claw does not have lasers.

CRUSADER - The Crusader's changes mainly revolve around fittings. Lots more fitting room allows a lot of options for more damage and tank. We're shaving a bit of HP off the top but the Crusader remains one of the beefiest interceptors (for all that's worth).

=============================================================================

MALEDICTION - Big change for the Malediction is moving one highslot to a low, providing a lot more options for either damage mods, tank or fitting mods. The rocket damage bonus is also being converted to small missile RoF, increasing dps slightly and allowing the effective use of light missiles. A bit of HP shifted to armor allows it to more easily take advantage of the resist bonus.

Amazing changes, however I would have liked to see a longer lock range. At the speeds these ships move that lock range is very, very short. I guess it's balanced by the scan res?

The summary here, is that no pirate will be able to catch a smaller vessel once it warps to a gate/far away point

And no pirate fleet will ever escape a FW blob again, due to the fact FW can deploy interceptors to tackle them on gate, and pirates can not.

This seems a bit lopsided to me.

Again, 17k ehp maledictions

Again, 17k ehp maledictions

This number sounds made up.

I cannot believe you are all that bad that you don't complain about crusader.

more lock range fozzie PLEASE for REAL

they have a 36k+ point
they go 6kms
it takes at least 2 seconds to lock and point due to server ticks
how can u ship them without 50k lock after skills

please dont make us fit 2 ionics for another 10 years, +2.5km is not enough for stiletto / ares
you realise everyone is gonna just fly crows now instead of stilettos, because its the only tackle one with 4 mids and reasonable lock range. this doesnt fix anything it just shifts the problem

Tell me more. While i agree that claw somewhat needs it, the crusader with his damage projections is perfectly fine with just 2 mids.

Tell me more. While i agree that claw somewhat needs it, the crusader with his damage projections is perfectly fine with just 2 mids.

This number sounds made up.

I will tell you more ... claw is WAY BETTER THAN Crusader . Now and after this change. really if you think that 7,5% tracking bonus will make crusader actually hitting stuff. Then damn ....... Story is simple - WEB OR OPTIMAL range. I fly almost only laser ships and i know what im talking about. I pvp actively. And i know exactly what i'm talking about. Both small scale and completly solo.

"Perfectly fine with just 2 mids" - tell me , TELL ME - do you fly Crusader if you think its fine with 2 mids ? I guess no as noone flies Crusader unless he is noob or making some lols.

EDIT : I'm disguested with some people who say crusader is ok. Goddamn you are terrible.

Problem solved. I'm really not sure why people ***** about only having 2 mids, 2 mids is fine if you're not terrible and think every ship needs a point/web combo.

Uh, I have, and did fly one just fine for a bit. It's not worse than the Retribution, you just have to keep it's propensities in mind when you fly it. If you want a dedicated tackler, get the Vengence, that's literally how the roles are different.

Crusader is pretty simply, burn in, grab point, turn off mwd and orbit close while apply deeps.

Problem solved. I'm really not sure why people ***** about only having 2 mids, 2 mids is fine if you're not terrible and think every ship needs a point/web combo.

Uh, I have, and did fly one just fine for a bit. It's not worse than the Retribution, you just have to keep it's propensities in mind when you fly it. If you want a dedicated tackler, get the Vengence, that's literally how the roles are different.

Crusader is pretty simply, burn in, grab point, turn off mwd and orbit close while apply deeps.

Problem solved. I'm really not sure why people ***** about only having 2 mids, 2 mids is fine if you're not terrible and think every ship needs a point/web combo.

"Perfectly fine with just 2 mids" - tell me , TELL ME - do you fly Crusader if you think its fine with 2 mids ?

Nah, I totally disagree. There's no reason to use a Crusader over a Slicer, ever. Damage projection on small Pulse even when fitting for optimal is only ~13km. Your entire engagement range is wasted either on a point or by being in neut range. You have no counter to neuting (no utility high, no utility mid for a cap booster) and no ability to counter web or TD. I can't really fathom any time when I would use a Crusader... at all.

Crusader is perfect ship

I find fight between crusader and taranis as really good example of interesting balance. If both pilots are capable, crusader has better chances of winning, despite the fact crusader has 2 mids.

Just.. How would you lose a fight against a Crusader in a taranis?

Inside scram range the taranis is twice as fast, has better tracking and far more dps..

Just.. How would you lose a fight against a Crusader in a taranis?

Inside scram range the taranis is twice as fast, has better tracking and far more dps..

I'm still asking the question CCP Fozzie, and you are still dodging it: what the hell are nul-sec miners meant to do now?

Seriously, split weapons? Again? You specifically said you were moving away from that unless you can get the full benefit of either ala Scythe fleet issue.

I mean come on ffs. If you ruin the Enyo I will be forced to biomass (try to hold your cheers). There's nothing wrong with having two hybrid boats in the same class, perhaps make the Ares a drone boat?

Gallente use hybrids and drones, not god damn missiles. People who train Gallente usually don't train missiles, if you follow through with ruining the Roden ships with some missile BS, you'll have to train 3 weapon systems to fly Gallente and they'll be as annoying as Minmatar.

Seriously, split weapons? Again? You specifically said you were moving away from that unless you can get the full benefit of either ala Scythe fleet issue.

I mean come on ffs. If you ruin the Enyo I will be forced to biomass (try to hold your cheers). There's nothing wrong with having two hybrid boats in the same class, perhaps make the Ares a drone boat?

Gallente use hybrids and drones, not god damn missiles. People who train Gallente usually don't train missiles, if you follow through with ruining the Roden ships with some missile BS, you'll have to train 3 weapon systems to fly Gallente and they'll be as annoying as Minmatar.

So, About that Lock Range, really needs to be Higher, especially for the Fleet Interceptors.

The Bubble Immunity is out of place. That should really be on the Interdictor class instead. Give the Nullsec only bonus to a Class of ships specifically designed to work in Nullsec.

Instead, give it a focussed bonus based around it's role as a fast tackler that's useful no matter where you are. It's meant to lock targets fast and stop them getting away. How about a Web Strength Bonus to stop a Target just burning back to the gate? Or a 100% Bonus to Warp Scramble Strength (So Warp Disruptors would give 2 Points of Warp Disruption while Warp Scramblers would give 4 Points, but only when fitted to an Interceptor)

We'll get more opportunities to discuss that with the player base when we actually move to tech2 hull rebalancing.

Oh god, Lock range!?
Fozzie, are you directly forcing solo ceptor pilots to fly with offgrid boosters?
For shame.

ITT people who haven't logged significant hours in a Crusader.

ITT people who haven't logged significant hours in a Crusader or 00 Interceptors for that matter

And for the record, the Taranis *nerf* results in ~250 eHP less than current.
That's hardly a nerf.

Even in 00 where you don't have to deal with constant AB brawlers in still gets its ass handed to it by just about any other frigate (Assuming pilot skill is even)

You know that.

The #1 problem with the Crusader is the lack of fitting, NOT the lack of mids.
The extra fitting means you can plate the ship for extra tank if you want, or you can fit top-tier weapons to relive days before the locus nerf.

This is the first time a Crusader has been capable of easily breaking 300dps.
It's also the fastest interceptor by a fair margin.

Please trust me when I say that the Crusader will be one of the best (if not the best) dogfighters once again, and I'd happily engage a Taranis in one



The CLAW on the other hand...
Where the double damage bonus makes sense on the Taranis (super high damage, 3 mids), the Claw needs more.
The simple solution isn't giving it another mid, but rather giving it a range bonus (falloff or optimal) in the available frigate bonus.

stuff

Also, I recall seeing a new model for the crow/raptor/condor at one point - are we likely to see this new model for this expansion (or ever for that matter)?

Nice.

Couple of things. The Taranis only gets 1 frig bonus. Why?
The Ares has split weapon ones. I thought you were moving away from that? If you wish it to be missiles, then make it so.

It's basically a faster, smaller, closer range Slicer.
You fly it a similar way, but it's much much better suited to fighting other fast ships than the Slicer is.

I think the easiest way to understand it would be to think of it as the stopgap between the Retribution & Slicer.
Combined with the fast warp and bubble immunity, this'll be a really really fun ship to fly

Interceptors are meant to be the fastest means to gain tackle on a target.
That includes moving through excessively bubbled systems.

With a interceptors speed they can already move VERY fast though bubbled systems. As it is now bubbles are basically the only way to catch a interceptor.

By making them nullified that takes out the one real way of possibly catching a interceptor. We already have nullified T3s, and MJD battleships. With the addition of nullified interceptors we might as well just remove bubbles from the game.

As a fast tackle, interceptors would benefit greatly from immunity to the MWD canceling effects of warp scramblers.

Wow friend. Think about that a second. 'Interceptors are too hard to tackle. With bubble immunity they will be uncatchable. We should make them immune to scrams instead so they can burn through our bubble at 5km/s.'

Also bubbles aren't what catches interceptors. Fastlocking, gatecamping scrubs in Recons catch Interceptors. I don't think I've ever died without having my MWD shut down (neut or scram) and of those 95% has been scrams.

You are also suggesting that combat Ceptors with scrams fit should be able to dictate range against everything in Nullsec that doesn't have a 90% web.

Just wow.

I think the idea of a combat interceptor when it is outclassed by every other frigate in the game in that role is kind of silly.

The Crusader's problem is that small pulse doesn't have enough range to be really useful without a utility high for a nos. Then you go and kill the utility high (for a nos) from the Malediction too. Seriously man, why do you ******* hate utility highs?

-Liang

- The rocket bonus on the Ares is crap. It's a mere 10dps per T2 rocket launcher, assuming you can even fit one. Rather have the tracking bonus back.

make them able to tackle supers.

Nice to see the EHP nerf is less than was worried. On to read more.

The role bonuses: Fantastic. Well deserved, glad to see these will be able to hold point like the T1's at least.

Crusader:
The fitting buff was well deserved. I'm very happy to see that. I'm still quite disappointed by the lack of mids though. It's not going to cut it for fast tackle whatsoever with only 2 mids. It could probably also have used more cap. I don't think this is enough. Still hurts for lock range, though doesn't need it as much as the fleet 'ceptors because of the lower point range. But more wouldn't hurt it.

Malediction:
The extra CPU is very nice. Glad to see it. The extra low is nice, but the loss of the utility high will hurt it as it will have to give up another launcher for a nos if it wants to keep full tackle against neuts. I guess it is a decent fleet oriented change though, as it didn't need that damage anyways, and the EHP makes up for it. Another mid would have been nice though. The lock range though... Needs a bigger buff then that. It's a fleet inty and needs more range for the long points.


So far the overarching issues I'm seeing are: low cap regen, low lock range. The role bonus helps with the former, but more would be nice.

Would it hurt too much to add a slot or two to the class, mostly mid slots to make it more realistic to fit full tackle and *maybe* a tank as well? 3 mid slots should be the bare minimum on an Interceptor. Also, scan res would be nice. The Slasher has more than the Stiletto. As far as fast tackle, they're still not that great compared to the T1.


You know what? I can't be bothered to write up my opinions on the remaining 'ceptors. The fleet 'ceptors seem to be lacking in lock range, mids (on some), and cap life to keep them tackling. The combat 'ceptors... They seem alright, but more like squishy AFs than anything else.

Crusader + Claw.

Combat interceptors.

Two mids.

We had no reason to fly them before, especial with the buffed Executioner and Slasher.

What reason do we have for flying them now.

Amarr and Minmatar fleet interceptors make better combat interceptors than the combat interceptors.

No change.

Hey guys, I'm not going to be posting a lot in these threads between now and Monday, when these changes hit sisi. Just want to reassure you all that I'm still going to be reading every post in this thread and that I appreciate the feedback.

What about other ships used as interceptors like the Dramiel? Any plans on giving those ships the same bubble inmunity?

CLAW - Ahh the Claw. We're giving this old stalwart a hand up in a few ways. Splitting the damage bonus into two provides just over 4% more damage at max skills. The lower mass helps both speed and agility. Extra fitting allows for better tanking or effective artillery fits. And we've finally fixed the lock range.

Minmatar Frigate Bonuses:
5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage per level (split between frigate and interceptor skills)
7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level (moved from interceptor skill)

Interceptors Bonuses:
15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
5% Small Projectile Turret Damage per level (split between frigate and interceptor skills)

Role bonuses:
80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
Immunity to non-targeted interdiction

Slot layout: 4H, 2M, 4L; 3 turrets, 1(-1) launchers
Fittings: 45(+5) PWG, 125(+25) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 325(-27) / 500(+113) / 475(-18)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 285(+4.75) / 213.75s (+2.8) / 1.33
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 475 / 3(-0.09) / 1100000(-26000) / 4.57s(-0.25)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 22.5km(+5) / 1000 / 5(+1)
Sensor strength: 9(+1) Ladar
Signature radius: 30
Cargo Capacity: 94(-26)

I cannot +1 that. I'm deeply disapointed.

Crusader NEEDS 3RD MID .

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

What kind of tackler it is that cannot fit sensor booster or web ? I dunno how you do this ...

I suggest either take turret and swap cap bonus for another damage, or take low and move to mid.

I Beg you for ALL THAT IS SACRED WE NEED ONE ADVANCED FRIGATE WITH LASERS WITH 3 MIDS.

Yes you got it no frigate above base t1 level got 3 mids.

Slicer - 2 mids, Retribution - 2 mids, Crusader - 2 mids.

I BEG YOU.

Pff, half-measures.

All ships should be able to tackle supercaps. No combat ship should have penalty-free, built-in WCS. This isn't 2006 and we're not flying stabbabonds any more.

Taranis needs a speed buff it is slow compared to the rest of the combat inties considering it has worse range than the raptor it really should be the second fastest after the claw since its meant to be the armour version of the raptor now you also have to factor in a plate and trimarks too.... overall its a nerf to the taranis when it really needs a buff..

Even the amarr inties are quicker than the taranis for christ sake !!!!!

As someone said earlier in this thread, 2 mid slots ceptors are no good for obvious reasons, split weapon system ceptors are no good again for obvious reasons.

These 2 points need changes, 3mids minimum, single weapon system.

Also on a side note about speed, these should have very similar agility/base speed with very little difference. The main point of my opinion on this matter being that someone specializing in one race will not be penalized for not being able to fly the fastest one. It's not about making everything equal but give to different race specialized pilots same fun factor to achieve their job but in a different manner thanks to racial traits that might be the weapon system or tackle bonus.

Many players seem to assume inties are uncatchable and will be even worst after this change, well guys think a bit about it: you're flying the most paper thin ships in the game requiring mechanics and flying knowledge to stay alive.
The slightest mistake on your approach angle or orbit and you get a hole from those arties/rails/beams blasting you to pieces, under neuts meaning you're as dead as if you were shot, scram/web with drone puppies eating you alive, so it's not that simple.

Imho this nulli idea is an awesome addition promoting inty pilots and rewarding piloting effort, those are harassers, paper thin harassers that can be countered with some thinking and piloting skills. However those shouldn't be able to dish much dps, their hole strength should be around harassing abilities to pin down stuff and hoar on km's but not be able to pin stuff, move at will and kill easily larger ships (old Dramiel everyone?)

3 Mids - Speed stuff

The light missile condor was completely dominating facwar frigate pvp(and still kinda is) especially with links which made it able to orbit so far out and become so fast noone could ever hope of slingshotting it. Now you're making 3 ships that are essentially linked condors with the ganglinked point built into the hull. For the sake of the lowsec frigate community, which is huge atm, please rethink this.

Some of you will notice that there are certain imbalances that these changes do not fully rectify (for instance the current strength of light missile speed fits, the slight relative weakness of the Rifter, Breacher and the solo Punisher). We're hoping to smooth out a few of the rough edges via stat changes to the ships themselves, while some others will be addressed via changes to other parts of the metagame.

Just as a first impression, all the initial problems I saw in these ships seemed to be addressed.

Lock range issues? All fleet tackle interceptors have 3 mids (point/prop/sebo) as armor boats and 4 slots (+1 mid for tank) on shield boats. So close range they can use scram/web and long range point/sebo. I like the tradeoff.

Mid slot issues? All the ships that need 3 mids are the long range ones and they have them. It's only the short range ones with 2. I've never been a fan of 2 mid ships, but I can definitely see how it works given how the crusader and claw are set up.

Fitting woes? Buffed

I really think this is a solid pass on these ships. I doubt I'll be heard through all the lock range complaining, but I just thought it should be said.

Just PLEASE keep in mind that any buff to mids or lock range is going to have an enormous impact on the lowsec frigate community. We already have enough OGB boosted, snaked, TD/Damp frigs without these guys being inadvertently buffed into that role.

I've never been a fan of 2 mid ships, but I can definitely see how it works given how the crusader and claw are set up.

yeah, why is their lock range so awful?
i mean they can point further than they can lock.... seems silly.


ceptors are not FOR frigate warfare, they are for fleet warfare and for that they are way better than anything else now.
if you don't think so then you are severely underestimating the value of bubble immunity.

I guess the tracking wouldn't be much of an issue in 00 unless you're up against a dual prop taranis.. But honestly i'm not seeing it..

Like, yes you will have a better tank than said taranis, but it will out track and gank you..

Also 300 dps? it only has a 5% damage bonus.. That won't be enough to bring it up to 300.. Maybe with conflag two heatsinks, heat and implants?

I will admit that i haven't used it really due to my opinion that its garbage. But i do think i fly enough frigates to not be completely talking out of my ass here, i just really don't see how its a good ship.

Fozzie


1. Make the interdiction nulli be based on a RIG you can purchase and put on a interceptor only. This will cut down on some of the strength rigs will give this ship.

2. Make a warp disruptor mod that uses scripts that only a interceptor can use.

Scram Script- short range and 2 points

Disruptor script- Long Range 1 point

Focus Script- script like a focused beam can only be used on Titans and Super carriers

This will allow the captor to fit one mod freeing up other slots. he chooses what script based on course of action.

3. Defining the battle field is a must here. your changes are nice but the ship will still be useless in game except for a 0.0 to high sec shuttle. Any gang that roams the gates will kill this ship faster then his fleet can support him in his tackle ability.

Fozzie


1. Make the interdiction nulli be based on a RIG you can purchase and put on a interceptor only. This will cut down on some of the strength rigs will give this ship.

2. Make a warp disruptor mod that uses scripts that only a interceptor can use.

Scram Script- short range and 2 points

Disruptor script- Long Range 1 point

Focus Script- script like a focused beam can only be used on Titans and Super carriers

This will allow the captor to fit one mod freeing up other slots. he chooses what script based on course of action.

3. Defining the battle field is a must here. your changes are nice but the ship will still be useless in game except for a 0.0 to high sec shuttle. Any gang that roams the gates will kill this ship faster then his fleet can support him in his tackle ability.

Almost got cranky about the Taranis, until I noticed the 10MB/m3 drone bay!

Again, job well done, Sir!

3. You know the game is in a sad state when people think like this. ANY good interceptor pilot (regardless of region) will tell you that these changes (in addition to the warp speed changes) are enormous boosts for fleet (big & small) or solo operations

So besides this super shuttle and super t2 ship, what else does this ship bring to the field?

What new role will this ship provide? None. T3 nullified already exists

maybe the interceptor gets a special mod that is able to point supers. Make them useful beyond conventional. It cannot deploy a field but a point that goes through the ewar invulnerability

I'd love to see racial bonuses for inties :

- Caldari : Bonus to lock range & scan res
- Minmatar : Further decrease in signature while in MWD
- Gallente : Bonus to Disrupt range
- Amarr : Bonus to armor reps (allong with the current +4% resist)

This way you create diverse platforms, allowing a real choice and gameplay difference between them. Note that these are just proposition i though and should be brainstormed & considered, don't start arguing about why such bonus would be op and another useless, i brought these to make this point : InterRAcial Hull comformity is boring as ****, it doesn't bring anything to the table but a best in class performer in its intended role. Specialize further each hulls so they can bring something different.

Fozzie, about 6 months ago:

fleet bonuses and lock range - you claim links / the leadership skill will overcome the lock range issue, but a reasonable interceptor cannot rely on that.
you will often be the first and only person into a system where you have to tackle someone (and surely, isn't this part of the interceptors intended role?) and thus not be receiving links or bonuses of any kind. since you have to fit in advance and cover all bases, there is no point in even mentioning links / sensor skill with regard to interceptors

its not a tradeoff when every single interceptor pilot fits 2 ionics or a sig amp, it just feels like bringing your ship to something that really should be baseline on the t2 class which is designed to be the best tackle in the game. all you are doing by keeping lock range low on the fleet tackle interceptors is removing customization options for a class which already hurts in that area

now i'm not advocating a huge buff, the interdiction nullification thing is insanely good and cuts down on scouting times massively plus the warp speed changes in ruby-con are hugely beneficial for interceptors. but please for the love of god, the quality of life change every interceptor pilot has been asking for is lock range, if you feel you have to tone down something else to give the tackle interceptors 35km base lock then so be it but don't pigeonhole them into fitting targeting range mods and act like its a cool tradeoff choice

1. This argument doesn't make any sense. Are you against the bubble immunity or would you rather it be a rig if it needed to exist. In rig form you're limiting the number of possible fitting combinations. Hush and enjoy the intercepting bonus lol

3. You know the game is in a sad state when people think like this. ANY good interceptor pilot (regardless of region) will tell you that these changes (in addition to the warp speed changes) are enormous boosts for fleet (big & small) or solo operations.

2. This isn't an awful idea, but we've already got this sort of thing for HICtors. IMO if something like the HICtor module were to be scaled down to frigate-sized combat, it would be for the Interdiction class and not something as fast and mobile as Interceptors.

1. This argument doesn't make any sense. Are you against the bubble immunity or would you rather it be a rig if it needed to exist. In rig form you're limiting the number of possible fitting combinations. Hush and enjoy the intercepting bonus lol

3. You know the game is in a sad state when people think like this. ANY good interceptor pilot (regardless of region) will tell you that these changes (in addition to the warp speed changes) are enormous boosts for fleet (big & small) or solo operations.

2. This isn't an awful idea, but we've already got this sort of thing for HICtors. IMO if something like the HICtor module were to be scaled down to frigate-sized combat, it would be for the Interdiction class and not something as fast and mobile as Interceptors.