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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
2936
   |
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Another feature you guys will get your hands on very shortly on the public test server are the new Rapid Heavy Missile launchers!
Please keep in mind that they are still in an early development state in some ways. They still have yet to receive their new icon, there's definitely still some bugs with the firing animation and the stats themselves haven't undergone as much review as some other balance features.
With that out of the way we can talk about the launchers themselves. The idea here is pretty basic in being basically a copy of the Rapid Light Missile launcher group but stepped up one class. Doing this hopefully accomplishes a few goals:
Expands the fitting options for battleship sized missile users (currently there's not as much flexibility as turret systems get)
Opens up new tactics for battleship sized missile users
Adds continuity with medium sized missile systems
The high-level design for these launchers is very straight forward because of its parallel to the rapid lights. They should:
Fire heavy missiles
Have a higher rate of fire than normal heavy launchers
Have lower overall dps than cruise or torpedo launchers
Be easier to fit than cruise or torpedo launchers
The sticky part is hitting the numbers just right so that they are better damage output against smaller targets than cruise or torpedo launchers but not so high that they become the right choice in almost all cases. Here's where the numbers are at now, but they are certainly up for negotiation.
Type (PG need / CPU need / rate of fire)
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I (50 / 960 / 9.3s)
Rapid Heavy Missile launcher II (59 / 1210 / 7.45s)
'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I (46 / 1160 / 7.45s)
'Limos' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I (49 / 1160/ 8.37s)
'Malkuth' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I (43 / 1160 / 8.84s)
Caldari Navy Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (59 / 1060 / 6.51s)
Domination Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (43 / 1160 / 7.21s)
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (59 / 1060 / 6.51s)
Estamel's Modified Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (72 / 1060 / 5.21s)
Gotan's Modified Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (50 / 1160 / 6.33s)
Hakim's Modified Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (48 / 1160 / 6.7s)
Kaikka's Modified Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (62 / 1060 / 6.19s)
Mizuro's Modified Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (45 / 1160 / 7.07s)
Republic Fleet Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (43 / 1160 / 7.21s)
Shaqil's Modified Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (50 / 1060 / 5.96s)
Thon's Modified Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (66 / 1060 / 5.86s)
Tobias' Modified Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (52 / 1160 / 5.96s)
True Sansha Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (43 / 1160 / 7.21s)
Vepas' Modified Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (68 / 1060 / 5.54s)
YO-5000 Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher (51 / 1160 / 7.91s)
As you can see, we are going to put in a full range of meta levels for Rapid Heavy Launchers and they will all be attained in the same way you would get the Cruise or Torpedo launcher counterpart at a given meta. They will drop at the same rates and obtained at the same LP. The manufacturing costs will be between the cost of torpedo and cruiser launchers which should lead to prices that are very similar.
If you have questions or feedback let us know and I'll do my best to answer.
Thanks <3 |
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Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
3571
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yep, scrap it
RLMLs are stupidly OP and these aren't different.
ty
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy
Catastrophic Uprising
17
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Posted - 2013.10.07 12:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
2nd |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1657
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
The have a little faster ROF than I thought.
Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
276
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Time to buy ravens
"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
Verge of Collapse
685
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Posted - 2013.10.07 12:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Roime wrote:and these aren't different.
Thank you for the laugh.
If you think that 480 DPS with Fury missiles at 47.5km on a Battleship hull is OP, then I don't even know what to tell you. And that's with 3 BCS. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
177
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Posted - 2013.10.07 12:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
I assume power grid is actually the middle stat? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1657
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Which ships, if any, will get bonuses to these? Or is that a secret?
Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
BadAssMcKill
Love Squad
409
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Which ships, if any, will get bonuses to these? Or is that a secret?
Phoon and Raven
http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á |
Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy
Catastrophic Uprising
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Isn't it enough just 1 basic meta version of RMS, instead of:
'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I (46 / 1160 / 7.45s)
'Limos' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I (49 / 1160/ 8.37s)
'Malkuth' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I (43 / 1160 / 8.84s) |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
3571
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Roime wrote:and these aren't different.
Thank you for the laugh. If you think that 480 DPS with Fury missiles at 47.5km on a Battleship hull is OP, then I don't even know what to tell you. And that's with 3 BCS.
The issue is damage application, not paper dps.
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
288
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Will any ships be getting relevant bonuses? Aka like the Caracal does for RLML?
Boldly going forward, still can't find reverse - name that tune kids! |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
Verge of Collapse
685
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Roime wrote:SMT008 wrote:Roime wrote:and these aren't different.
Thank you for the laugh. If you think that 480 DPS with Fury missiles at 47.5km on a Battleship hull is OP, then I don't even know what to tell you. And that's with 3 BCS. The issue is damage application, not paper dps.
Alright, so now you're telling us that Heavy Missiles apply damage too well ?
There is a reason no one uses them anymore except on the occasional Drake and 100MN Tengus.
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Jayne Fillon
Sanctuary of Shadows
Axiomatic Dominion
100
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm excited to check these out on sisi! Great work, good to see some love for missiles.
Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI. |
Destoya
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
163
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Heavy missiles are garbage right now, cant imagine why one would want to use them on a battleship except in some very specific edge case. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
369
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Roime wrote:SMT008 wrote:Roime wrote:and these aren't different.
Thank you for the laugh. If you think that 480 DPS with Fury missiles at 47.5km on a Battleship hull is OP, then I don't even know what to tell you. And that's with 3 BCS. The issue is damage application, not paper dps. Alright, so now you're telling us that Heavy Missiles apply damage too well ? There is a reason no one uses them anymore except on the occasional Drake and 100MN Tengus.
Indeed, Light Missiles apply damage incomparably too well I'd say. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
606
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
It would be wise to first take a look at heavy missiles. They were nerfed some time ago before the up of other medium-sized long-range weapons.
Now that these have been buffed again, I believe you CCP should first rebalance heavy missiles (I don't know for you but I never got to use them since the nerf) THEN tweak the stats of these RHML.
Edit : Also, CCP, you should first state what you want players to use in specific situations.
e.g. : For a BS versus BC, do you plan to make the BS player use Cruise or RHML ?
G££ <= Me |
Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
18
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Posted - 2013.10.07 12:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
seems the PG and CPU stats not in the correct order:
CCP Rise wrote:
Type (PG need / CPU need / rate of fire)
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I (50 / 960 / 9.3s)
...
No raven has 6x960 CPU to fit all launcherslot :) |
Schmata Bastanold
The brothers inc
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
1007
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Because we really need another missile launcher in 15 meta levels of obscurity...
Just post about one thing everybody is really curious about: new deployable structures. Gief us all da detailz! NAOW!
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
369
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Is a Rapid Cruise Missile Launcher on project for capitals ? |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
160
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Like it  |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
388
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
RLMLs are overpowered because light missiles are overpowered, but also just the role itself. We have these things called destroyers, which are supposed to kill frigates - it's what they do, and then the caracal comes along and does more damage at 5x the range, goes faster and has many times the tank.
Not sure why we need another class of ships that wrecks cruisers, we already have battlecruisers, and they're far more prominent than they probably should be. |
Destoya
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
163
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Is a Rapid Cruise Missile Launcher on project for capitals ?
Right when other capitals get a 6x Tachyon/Rail weapon with half the DPS of current dread weapons but battleship tracking (hint: you dont want this) |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
606
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:RLMLs are overpowered because light missiles are overpowered, but also just the role itself. We have these things called destroyers, which are supposed to kill frigates - it's what they do, and then the caracal comes along and does more damage at 5x the range, goes faster and has many times the tank.
Not sure why we need another class of ships that wrecks cruisers, we already have battlecruisers, and they're far more prominent than they probably should be.
Dude dont you think that you're slightly overreacting here ?
I've been in FW for a while now (this is where you're most likely to see t1 cruisers and frigates fighting eachother) and I can assure you that I've never seen nor been killed by RLMLs.
Remember that if you're at "5x times the range" you can still warp out. Also remember that since the ammo is the same and the range bonuses between frigs and cruisers are the same, a caracal won't hit from a longer distance than a frigate, if both are using light missiles.
About RHML, I believe that on a non target-painted BC they should do slightly less damage than a cruise would on a target-painted BC. On a cruiser they should probably outdamage cruise missiles regardless of if it's painted or not (= one paint, I'm not talking about crazy situations like 3 paints + motionless cruiser).
Versus other BS however, they should do less damages than cruise missiles even without paint. Seems obvious but I'm not entierly sure it would be the case if the BS is going fast. However perhaps cruise missiles should be buffed here, not the opposite.
Of course, since the only stat we can balance here is rate of fire, it only leaves limited options.
G££ <= Me |
Capqu
Love Squad
338
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
can we have rapid rapid lights instead?
jk these look cool, missiles getting the same options as turrets have with their low fitting, higher tracking guns.
but on the subject of missiles i think you should up heavy missile damage (and perhaps reduce application) because right now they are just worse than rapid lights in almost every case
http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
388
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Altrue wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:RLMLs are overpowered because light missiles are overpowered, but also just the role itself. We have these things called destroyers, which are supposed to kill frigates - it's what they do, and then the caracal comes along and does more damage at 5x the range, goes faster and has many times the tank.
Not sure why we need another class of ships that wrecks cruisers, we already have battlecruisers, and they're far more prominent than they probably should be. Dude dont you think that you're slightly overreacting here ? I've been in FW for a while now (this is where you're most likely to see t1 cruisers and frigates fighting eachother) and I can assure you that I've never seen nor been killed by RLMLs. Remember that if you're at "5x times the range" you can still warp out. Also remember that since the ammo is the same and the range bonuses between frigs and cruisers are the same, a caracal won't hit from a longer distance than a frigate, if both are using light missiles. The range thing you're mentionning is thus invalid and a proof that you are objectively overreacting. Also, battlecruisers don't wreck cruisers. At least not when BCs are using missiles. Have you ever tried to hit an AB cruiser with heavy missiles ? About RHML, I believe that on a non target-painted BC they should do slightly less damage than a cruise would on a target-painted BC. On a cruiser they should probably outdamage cruise missiles regardless of if it's painted or not (= one paint, I'm not talking about crazy situations like 3 paints + motionless cruiser). Versus other BS however, they should do less damages than cruise missiles even without paint. Seems obvious but I'm not entierly sure it would be the case if the BS is going fast. However perhaps cruise missiles should be buffed here, not the opposite. Of course, since the only stat we can balance here is rate of fire, it only leaves limited options.
How much people use them is irrelevant. Try flying one yourself. I was using them before the cruiser and LML rebalance, and they were still very silly back then. |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
Game 0f Tears
108
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:RLMLs are overpowered because light missiles are overpowered, but also just the role itself. We have these things called destroyers, which are supposed to kill frigates - it's what they do, and then the caracal comes along and does more damage at 5x the range, goes faster and has many times the tank.
Not sure why we need another class of ships that wrecks cruisers, we already have battlecruisers, and they're far more prominent than they probably should be.
Have you debated the application of RHML in use against ABCs?
FWIW I can still push heavy missiles to 140km on a Cerberus. Assuming the bog-standard 50% range bonus on a raven that could mean what... 90km range at least? Also much better damage application against ABCs shouldn't be discounted, granted at significantly lower comparable DPS.
I agree with previous posters that HMLs need to be fixed. They were nerfed too hard and now aren't justifiable for common use.
Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
370
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 12:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:I agree with previous posters that HMLs need to be fixed. They were nerfed too hard and now aren't justifiable for common use.
LR weapon is not supposed to have a common use but a defined use. HML are a long range medium missile. If you don't shoot cruisers past 30km, then you don't need HML, and that's fine, because you have HAM for this closer range. |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
2939
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 13:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Updated the OP to fix the PG/CPU backwardsness and also to include the way we are dealing with bonuses. |
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ApolloF117 HUN
x-universum reunion
6
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Posted - 2013.10.07 13:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
make this launchers fittable for the naga |
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