Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Devil Chaser
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 00:57:00 -
[1]
Ok, these forums are so primitive with no search or polls, we'll have to 'old skool' it.
** Poll intro:
Eve uses a 'skills improve over time regardless of what activities the player partakes in' approach to skill improvement. ADVANTAGES: - You don't have to put alot of time into the game to improve your skills, as they can improve while you're offline. - Takes the stress off of the 'working class' of players because they dont have to sacrifice alot of time a day to get their skills up. (similar to advantage 1, but more to the point for some players) - Unique system not duplicated in other MMORPGs
DISADVANTAGES: - No skill rewards for using your skills. THere are other rewards such as money. - Incentive to putting effort into gameplay is lower than XP systems due to no skill improvement. (XP system gives XP and loot, Eve only gives loot) - Skill vs. activity paradox. (Improving combat skills while mining or manufacturing) - Gameplay vs. real life paradox. (Learning by doing nothing vs. improving skills by using said skills)
---------------------
Poll Question:
Do you prefer the Eve skill system that uses time as the method of skill building, or do you prefer the standard skill system that improves skills as the player uses his/her skills during gameplay? As a third option, would you prefer a hybrid that incorporates both methods of improving skills?
|
Martinez
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 00:59:00 -
[2]
yes
|
Gierling
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:02:00 -
[3]
I liked it a lot more before LEvel 5 skills became common as prereqs, now its just a ridiculous grind with the naked purpose of keepng you paying for months at a time.
*snip* That's not very appropriate. - Teblin |
Maderda Kuhal
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:10:00 -
[4]
The third option of course. Neither of the first two work well independently nor do they make sense. I can initially learn the basics of a skill simply by reading about how it is done. Then hone the skill by practicing it. You can only become so adept at something by reading. Sooner or later you have to actually put what you've read into practice to be really any good at it.
Example: I can read about how EVE is played until my eyeballs drop out. To be able to play the game with any skill I actually have to get in there and do it for a time. Conversly, I could go right in and play. But I won't know alot without reading about how it's played, either on the forums or from chats.
For those who were not around In The Beginning, you could receive experience by doing things. That was removed because some were abusing it (macro). I guess it was easier to throw something out rather than try and fix it.
Of course it's far too late to change the way skills are trained so any opinion will remain exactly that, an unrealized opinion. |
Mister Zero
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:17:00 -
[5]
The method for skilling works great now as it is, my only issue (and it's a major one) is that it takes too damn long to skill. The reasons for this are obvious, the skills train outrageously slow to keep the monthly payments coming.
Can I just put Battleships lvl 5 on my credit card and be done with it..?
|
Nikolai Nuvolari
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:18:00 -
[6]
I like how it works. I love it as a game mechanic, and it makes perfect sense in terms of realism because we can use our neural jacks to download and assimilate information. In addition, it's mostly not a "skill" in terms of something you practice, it's ability to interface your mind with different systems. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! |
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:21:00 -
[7]
I find myself in agreement with Geirling on this one.
lvl 5 skills used to indicate a character who was utterly dedicated to whatever the skill was, willing to go that extra mile for that last bit of performance, but a generalist could take many more skills at only rank 4, gaining greater role flexibility for an only moderate loss of performance.
A lvl 5 Blastathron pilot would certainly beat a lvl 4 blasterthron pilot, but a lvl 4 Blastathron pilot would have the option of using Tempests, Armageddons and Ravens as the situation demanded.
Now everyone has to train lvl 5 in dozens of skills, or be completely ineffective in combat. lvl 5 for Tech II guns, lvl 5 for Tech II ships, lvl 5 for tech II components, lvl 5 for Drones, lvl 5 for this, lvl 5 for that, and on and on.
This game would be so much better if all lvl 5 skill prereqs were dropped to lvl 4, and Tech II BPOs were creatable.
Harry Voyager ____________________ I'm not an idiot; I just play one on the forums. |
BoinKlasik
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Maderda Kuhal The third option of course. Neither of the first two work well independently nor do they make sense. I can initially learn the basics of a skill simply by reading about how it is done. Then hone the skill by practicing it. You can only become so adept at something by reading. Sooner or later you have to actually put what you've read into practice to be really any good at it.
Example: I can read about how EVE is played until my eyeballs drop out. To be able to play the game with any skill I actually have to get in there and do it for a time. Conversly, I could go right in and play. But I won't know alot without reading about how it's played, either on the forums or from chats.
For those who were not around In The Beginning, you could receive experience by doing things. That was removed because some were abusing it (macro). I guess it was easier to throw something out rather than try and fix it.
Of course it's far too late to change the way skills are trained so any opinion will remain exactly that, an unrealized opinion.
honestly that would have been areally cool feature to keep around imo. Being able to get to lvl 1 with just the skill book, lvl 2 would take some component of time but the actual use of the skill etc... The Damsel is no longer in distress. She was rescued enough times that she got the hint and installed better security systems at home. |
Relki
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:27:00 -
[9]
Personally I think the skill system is actually more consistent with the EVE universe. I.e. Think Matrix.
In a sfi universe all knowledge and skills are available in a downloadable format. It simply takes time for it to be integrated into your personality, thus the time lag.
This frees players up to do whatever they want in the game rather then be funnelled into actions based around building so called XP. Like pushing the fire button on my Heavy Laser Torrents 1,000,000 time is actually going to improve my ability to push the button again.
In addition to that many of the skills are like technical add-ons to make the player compatible with certain types of hardware.
So in short I think the EVE skills system is far superior to any sfi game I have played to date. But thatĈs just my opinion.
|
Necrologic
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:28:00 -
[10]
I think it is great how it is.
Official Nos Troll |
|
Devil Chaser
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:32:00 -
[11]
What if they implemented a small percentage skill point bonus for using your skills, that would reward players for putting effort into the game and spending time in a particular trade, but didn't take away the overall balance?
|
Death Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:32:00 -
[12]
I like the way the skill system is setup. Last thing i want is some snot nosed little kid become a higher lvl then me just because he dont have to spend 8 hours a day working for a living. this skill system helps balance that out. I would however like to see some rewards for doing things, i.e. Some one who only ever uses projectils and has been doing so for some time gets a experiance reward. eg, 5% bonus to tracking and projectile accurracy fall off.
Some thing to that effect. I am sure that I am not the only one that would like to be able to get rewarded for working determindly in ones profession of choice.
Mine alittle, rat alittle, run a few missions = NO REWARD Dedication to area = EXPERIENCE REWARD
|
Gift
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:38:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Gift on 02/02/2006 01:38:59 Time > Grind
Originally by: Devil Chaser On the original topic: What if they implemented a small percentage skill point bonus for using your skills, that would reward players for putting effort into the game and spending time in a particular trade, but didn't take away the overall balance?
Macro Sawa's Graphic Fun Time
|
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:38:00 -
[14]
Yes, I don't have the time or patience to grind.
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
Death Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:41:00 -
[15]
On the original topic: What if they implemented a small percentage skill point bonus for using your skills, that would reward players for putting effort into the game and spending time in a particular trade, but didn't take away the overall balance?
Did Did iiiii SSSSTTTTUUUUUTTTTEEEERRRRR. Thats what i said
|
Telemicus Thrace
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 01:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Harry Voyager I find myself in agreement with Geirling on this one.
lvl 5 skills used to indicate a character who was utterly dedicated to whatever the skill was, willing to go that extra mile for that last bit of performance, but a generalist could take many more skills at only rank 4, gaining greater role flexibility for an only moderate loss of performance.
A lvl 5 Blastathron pilot would certainly beat a lvl 4 blasterthron pilot, but a lvl 4 Blastathron pilot would have the option of using Tempests, Armageddons and Ravens as the situation demanded.
Now everyone has to train lvl 5 in dozens of skills, or be completely ineffective in combat. lvl 5 for Tech II guns, lvl 5 for Tech II ships, lvl 5 for tech II components, lvl 5 for Drones, lvl 5 for this, lvl 5 for that, and on and on.
This game would be so much better if all lvl 5 skill prereqs were dropped to lvl 4, and Tech II BPOs were creatable.
Harry Voyager
Lvl4 is becoming a more common pre-requisite for the very reasons you cited. I think it was on the EveNews.com interview with Oveur. Whether they will drop retroactively on existin pre-requisites or just affect future skills I don't know.
Option 3 used to exist. Some skills would get a boost through use like Afterburners would get a boost when you switched on your AB. It got dropped because apparantly a lot of folk just sat outside station activating and deactivating modules. It caused lag and was clearly not working in the intended fashion.
The system as it is is fine. In fact the time based training is one of the main reasons I was persuaded to try Eve. I have played XP based games and when work is busy I would quickly find myself way behind my peers and unable to game with my mates which defeated the purpose of multiplayer gaming for me.
The fact that not only do I not fall behind if I am not around for a week is one of the things that keeps me playing. It is also because of this system that I have actually been playing since day 1 rather than just grinding to keep up with my peers so I can go questin on the weekend.
It also gives me stuff to look forward to. For instance I'll get home tonight I'll be able to use an extra drone and by the end of the evening I can upgrade them to heavies. If it was xp based I would have nothing to look forward to but rock bashing.
Option 1. Leave it as is.
"I cannot hear what you say for the thunder of what you are." - Zulu proverb. |
Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:03:00 -
[17]
Neither but it is something different for a change so it is OK. ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Saeris Tal'Urduar
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Martinez yes
/signed
|
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:14:00 -
[19]
I love it. It seperates the skill of the character from the skill of the player using it. -- Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
|
Righteous Fury
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:14:00 -
[20]
Time based skills is the reason why Eve > all other mmos.
|
|
nahtoh
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:16:00 -
[21]
I like it as it is...For pretty much all the already listed resons... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Neon Genesis
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gierling I liked it a lot more before LEvel 5 skills became common as prereqs, now its just a ridiculous grind with the naked purpose of keepng you paying for months at a time.
Time for lvl 6?
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
Soulita
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:19:00 -
[23]
yes, good system as it is
|
Tarminic
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:34:00 -
[24]
In a word...OMGWTFEVESKILLZARETEHBEST!!!!!!!!!11111uno
I love the EVE Skill system...it's one of the best thing about this game. I'm not at a huge disadvantage to the people that play 8 hours a day and live in their parent's basement! I work 20 hours a week and i'm taking 15 Credit Hours at college right now, so I can't play as much as I'd like. But the game doesn't penalize me for that. I love it.
|
Robstr
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:38:00 -
[25]
time skills are awesome.
|
Tripoli
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:44:00 -
[26]
I love EVE's skill system more than anyone else does and there's plenty of people who can vouch for that. ---
Skill Collector Level 271 skills trained. |
w0rmy
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:51:00 -
[27]
The skill system is a large part of why I play.
|
Auraurious
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:56:00 -
[28]
Yes. I enjoy pvping the whole game (while money allows ofc) and not having to worry about powergaming. ____________________ Comparing EVE tp WOW is like comparing apples to butter. That said, I like apples. |
Darlan Flame
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 02:59:00 -
[29]
Lets keep the leveling treadmill in wow thanks.
|
Gonada
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 03:08:00 -
[30]
op, guess you got your answer eh ?
a resounding yes was given. now quit trying to make this great game into World OF Evecraft
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
|
|
Devil Chaser
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 03:26:00 -
[31]
The poll was neutral, not sided one way or the other.
|
Icek Villawrov
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 03:38:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Devil Chaser The poll was neutral, not sided one way or the other.
You don't happen to be calling 2/3 "yes" answers as nuetral, are you?
|
nahtoh
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 03:58:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Icek Villawrov
Originally by: Devil Chaser The poll was neutral, not sided one way or the other.
You don't happen to be calling 2/3 "yes" answers as nuetral, are you?
I think he means the questions were not weighted to give a certian response... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Chiron Typhon
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 04:24:00 -
[34]
From a complete purist point of view both systems have their merits. From one who is severely burnt out on massive EQ-esque XP grinds (hihi hundreds upon hundreds of AA in EQ) I for one welcome the EVE system.
Even from the perspective of being a 1 mth newbie I think it's totally reasonable and fair. Going back to grind xp based skills would be painful now.
|
Karazaan
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 04:33:00 -
[35]
Only system that work is the current one.
You got ISK for your working time/grinding. Thus, you get to pay the ships that blow up in ISK and not in SP.
It prevent charaters sales for profit.
It prevent macros.
The more you play, the more isk you have, the more you can do stupid things like blowing up your 150mil ships!
New doors open over time as your SP increase... Perfect!
Don't compare Eve to others online game, it's just not fair for them.
BTW: there is a search and it's www.eve-search.com
|
Delusion 'Fel
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 04:45:00 -
[36]
Im in the middle of moving house atm, will take me a while to get settled properly, and may not be able to get ingame for a while.
In most MMo's this would put me at a huge disadvantage compared to my peers. A week/2 weeks play time, even nothing more than a light 2-3 hours a day can mean levels either in character levels or "skills".
On eve however, ive just arranged it so ive got a few "long" skills to learn. In my time off i leave the short term skills i want to learn, and instead concentrate on the lvl 5's allowing me time to gain the benefit of advanced levels in skills i may normally ignore. As a "new" (6 month old) player that kinda means that in the focus areas im working on now, my 1-2 weeks down time is a good thing, and actually of benefit, where in any other game, id be dropping further behind my peers by the second, and really loosing out.
A time based skills system is the great equalizer in my eyes. 2 characters that start at the same time have all the same options available to them in terms of "levelling" regardless of wether the player spends 18 hrs a day every day, or 20 minutes every thursday in game, they still have the potential to be "the same" Sure the guy thats in game more often is likely to be better off financially and able to afford a little more, but thats the benefit to being able to play more.
|
Tevrai
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 08:30:00 -
[37]
I've played: Everquest 1-4 years Everquest 2-2 weeks :P S.W.G. 1 year W.o.W. 1.5 years
This system is the best thing I have ever experienced. I am beyond satisfied with it. It's a terrific way to advance in a game rather than whacking Uber_mob 101 to level 20 then Uber_mob 201 to level 40...etc etc....
I also think it allows players who focus less on "combat" aspects of the game, i.e. market traders/couriers/escrow players/miners and haulers. A fair shot at "leveling" and doing what they like at the same time.
I love mining.....Yes, I like punishment!
|
Pride NL
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 08:32:00 -
[38]
Yes the way the SP work in EVE is better then in all other MMORPG. In EVE you get advantages for being longer in the game, rather then how much you play it or how fast (and thus more) trolls you slaughter.
Love it!
|
Koori
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 09:00:00 -
[39]
Yes, I love the eve skill system. I dont have too much time to play, but i'm very patient. At least I dont have to worry that no-life teenager who played EVE for a month (23/7) is a terrible threat to me. Cause he is not :-) - ------------------------------------------- Helios enterprises is recruiting. 0% tax, 100% fun. |
Mangold
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 09:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Devil Chaser.
On the original topic: What if they implemented a small percentage skill point bonus for using your skills, that would reward players for putting effort into the game and spending time in a particular trade, but didn't take away the overall balance?
It was something like that in the beginning. You got some skillpoints from using your stuff. If you used your mining lasers you got a few extra points on mining skill. That was removed as it was too easy to abuse.
And I love the current skill system.
|
|
Grimwalius d'Antan
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 09:06:00 -
[41]
You might as well rename the topic to "Do you like Eve?", because the skill system is pretty much the core feature of the game. Akimbothumbs up.
|
Oro Masut
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 09:12:00 -
[42]
The current skill system is nice for people who don't play 24/7 and still can build their charcater the same way a power-gamer does, minus the isk of course. On the other hand, after studying alot of skills and their prereqs., one inevitably has to think, that alot of the level 5 necessities are just there to keep the $$-machine for CCP running. No hard feelings folks, you made a great game and keep it interesting, thus people don't mind to spend their money. On a side note, a monthly fee keeps ALOT of the 1337 haxx0r **** at bay (take a look at Guild Wars...nuff said !)
However, a mix of both would be more realistic and more fun. Keep the current system as a base, and on top of it give a timebonus for actually using certain skills. Alot of room to play here, you can have it easy e.g. you care fighting and all skills you already have get a bonus, or you make it more realistic. Lets say i am just flying around killing rats and pvping, according to my playstyle the skills get a timebonus on learning. Am i snipering, thus it only affects the weapon skill and sharpshooting, while when i am blastering away or getting into the "infight", skills like motion prediction come into play. Just a basic idea, but i think one with alot of potential.
...you can run away, you will just die tired Oro Masut
|
Halo Jones
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 09:24:00 -
[43]
I like skill training within eve just the way it is
There are a few of the base skills that people cna get with character creation that still do nothing howevere, i'd like this to be addressed
Oberon Carrier and Dreadnought Sales! |
Aodha Khan
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 09:24:00 -
[44]
Love the Eve skill system. I'd hate to go back to grinding for skills.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak. |
Ertai Vodalion
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 09:29:00 -
[45]
IĤll answer with a little story:
A few years ago I joined the open beta of another MMORPG. I told my friends and most of them joined in and we played together with like 8 RL friends. My job at that time forced me to live in Hotels like 2-3 weeks a months (and Net-Access from Hotel rooms wasnĤt common). So when i returned from a business trip and wanted to join my friends in the game again it was not possible at all - they leveled so far away within 1 week that I wouldnĤt gain any expierience hunting with them. Needless to say I uninstalled and never bothered about the game again - isnĤt it supposed to create communities and forge friendship ? - how if by any means of "advancement" in the game, you are outta the loop after not playing for 1 week ?
So YES - the EVE-System is excellent.
|
Matthew Johnson
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 09:30:00 -
[46]
Looove it!
One of the main reasons I started the game.
+++ Trade...good for you, good for me +++ |
Tony Fats
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 09:38:00 -
[47]
I love the skill system.
It lets you do what YOU want, you can sit in base making deals, or helping your friends do stuff.
In other games, if my friend needs help I take time away from grinding to do other stuff that might be fun but will hurt my advancement. In this game you dont have to choose between fun/advancement.
You will advance no matter what. You can do what you want. If you want to go with your buddy to do other stuff that has nothing to do with killing, you still advance. Or you can sit and chat and still advance.
Its freedom to do what you want at any particular time, even logoff.
|
EveJunkie
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 10:23:00 -
[48]
Eves Skill system is fantastic! I love it.
Its also REALLY evil; Most games I'd be happy with just 1 account, I'd have a main char and some alts to try out new things but with eve that's just not feasible. With the amount of time it takes to train up a char having multiple accounts is really the only way to explore the endless possibilities of Eve. The skill system keeps me paying for my 4 accounts even when I'm sick of eve and taking a break. :D
|
Syrec
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 10:27:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Syrec on 02/02/2006 10:27:59 Yes and No. Some of the newer skills will take someone half a year to get up to, and in XP based games with the amount of time even a casual player plays EVE they would reach level cap. EVE's skill system also ensures that veteran players remain on top in skillpoints. It has it's upsides and downsides I guess, but skills that take a month to train are silly. I've known people who unsubscribe until the skill they want trains up.
Also, being a PVP game Skillpoints -do- matter. A new player is not going to be competative in PVP until quite a few months down the line. This is probably the biggest downside to the real life time SP system.
|
Cesar Sunn
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 10:30:00 -
[50]
I like the time based system as before in mmo's i've become fed up with everyones constant obsession with power levelling and grinding instead of taking it easy and exploring the vast game worlds that the developers have created. Eve gives everyone the option of moving at their own pace and not playing catch up all the time.
|
|
Sendraks
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 10:31:00 -
[51]
I love the skill system, its a great leveller between hardcore and casual players. Its a wonderful built in nerf to powerlevelling WoW kiddies who want to "PWN" everyone else and for them the time invested compensates for a lack of skill or brain power.
Progression in this game is either better or worse than others, based on how well you plan your training and think about what you want to do in game.
|
Hohenheim OfLight
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 10:40:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Mister Zero The method for skilling works great now as it is, my only issue (and it's a major one) is that it takes too damn long to skill. The reasons for this are obvious, the skills train outrageously slow to keep the monthly payments coming.
Can I just put Battleships lvl 5 on my credit card and be done with it..?
Dont say that know I sudjest teh same thing last month and the thred was insta locked for flaim bait, aprently it againts teh rules to admit to the truth we all know.
------------------------------------------------- Contribute to the buy Hohenheim a carrier fund in game now! |
Mimio
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 10:59:00 -
[53]
Best experience approach in RPG I ever saw. May be a bit more dynamic? But in current state it is excellent solution.
|
Ruby StarFire
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 11:07:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Ruby StarFire on 02/02/2006 11:12:08 It's designed so that no-one can ever actually reach the peak of skill points. Each patch releases new skills, each of the skills increases in Rank and it takes so long to max out a single skill, that by the time your done a whole new set of skills have just been released.
Its a sneaky way of keeping suscribers hooked for years. If it was XP based, you could imagine that people would max out the specialitites in a matter of days.
Edit: And you realise that SP is just offline XP accumulation right? You still level up, but you can just do it offline.
|
Zembla
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 11:08:00 -
[55]
One Hybrid (Option3), two capuccino's and a bagel please. Could you put that in a bag please?
<Z> Spread the Z |
Uther Doull
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 11:10:00 -
[56]
grind < all
so yes i like it --------------------------- My opinions are my own and not nessecarily those of my corp or alliance.
|
Fiona WantsIt
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 11:21:00 -
[57]
Leave it as it is.
|
Turia
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 11:37:00 -
[58]
EVE's skill system is one of the best I've seen in all my years of gaming. Experience and traditional level-based systems simply reward people with no lives - those who can play darned near 24/7. Take a look at any other MMOG, and that's what you'll see - the high end, absolute best(tm) stuff is firmly grasped by the hands of gaming zombies.
EVE, on the other hand, blows that idea out of the water. And it does so in a manner that still rewards 'old' characters. A newbie can quickly become effective with level 4 skills. An ancient character enjoys another 5% or whatever for his level 5 skills. Those extra few percent, even if spread out over a bunch of skills, do not impose an insurmountable barrier to the newer character.
Of course, the ridiculous 'Level 5!' pre-reqs for everything new and shiny that CCP is coming up with aren't helping the once-greatness of the EVE skill system. Training something to level 5 is a hard pill to swallow, especially when you get into higher-ranked skills. Not that you won't see today's newbie as next year's carrier pilot, but the more massive amounts of time CCP stacks on, the wider the gap becomes between new players and old players. If this gap gets too wide (tech 3? I can imagine the requirements...), EVE might as well have a boring old 'You killed a Sansha's Orc! You get 23 experience points!' system.
Otherwise, new players will come to the game, say, "Three years to pilot UberCoolShipThatMakesNewbiesWantToPlaySoTheyCanGetOne? Nuts to that!' and promptly quit.
|
James Lyrus
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 11:40:00 -
[59]
The offline skill training is the most sexy thing in EVE. My only complaint with it is the number of L5 prereqs. (I don't mind L5s being uber, I do mind that there's increasingly more things that seem to need L5 skills)
As it goes, the 'real time advancement' is totally cool. It means I can spend time being a diplomat, camping stations, exploring or otherwise doing something 'indirectly productive' without feeling like I'm losing ground.
And means I get to play for the pleasure of playing, not because my corp, alliance, RL friend is levelling up ahead of me. -- We are recruiting
Carriers on sale |
Roshan longshot
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 11:49:00 -
[60]
I like it the way it is...
No newbie pestering the zone to get power leveled.... NO newbie pestering the zone for free stuff...
I dont have to spend hours grinding away at some poor monster just to get a few more exp points.
I dont have to feel ashamed cause that newbie has better gear then I do...
No Eve-online takes all that away. True level 5 skills are becomming a real pain in the arse to train. And I have to plan my training around my non-eve time. Had four hours left on a level five skill, but had to start training another so I would not loose out on "Training time"
Lets keep Eve the way it is. After all "If you have to change the rules of a game, then maybe you should not be playing it?"
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box. |
|
Morbius Drake
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 11:57:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Morbius Drake on 02/02/2006 12:22:46 Dammit Grimwalius, I've been staring at your sig for ten minutes waiting for it to flash me a look.
The skill system is perfect the way it is. |
Meatha
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 13:23:00 -
[62]
As a EXTREMELY new player I'm both fascinated and a bit intimidated by the system.
Since I can't play a lot the idea that I can skill while watching my kids, going out, or working is amazing.
On the same note. There are plenty of people a couple of YEARS ahead of me. I know that I will NEVER catch up. Even if I could dedicate more time or effort it wouldn't matter.
|
Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 13:24:00 -
[63]
Best system in any MMO if you ask me and I have played most of em. Next best was the PRE-CU SWG system.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
|
000Hunter000
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 14:02:00 -
[64]
CCP better not change the skills needed for current items!
If they would decrease for instance the prereq for HAC's from L5 cruiser to L4 cruiser i would be... annoyed... Unless it was possible for me to redirect the time i spent on cruiser 5 on something else.
If u want to fly a certain ship or use a certain item, u do the skilltime.
On the otherhand, perhaps some sort of added benefit on actually using the item/ship would be good too, man if that were the case i would be an uber missilespammer-o-doom
|
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 16:29:00 -
[65]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 CCP better not change the skills needed for current items!
If they would decrease for instance the prereq for HAC's from L5 cruiser to L4 cruiser i would be... annoyed... Unless it was possible for me to redirect the time i spent on cruiser 5 on something else.
If u want to fly a certain ship or use a certain item, u do the skilltime.
On the otherhand, perhaps some sort of added benefit on actually using the item/ship would be good too, man if that were the case i would be an uber missilespammer-o-doom
Why? If Cerberi only required lvl 4 Caldari Cruiser, you'd still be getting the extra 5% Kin missile damage and 10% missile velocity someone who only trained Cal Cruiser IV wouldn't have.
It wouldn't be the first time CCP changed skill reqs. I recall one particularely high profile skill change was when Cruise missiles were up to require lvl 5 Missile Op. This was back when Cruise missiles were integral to frigate and cruiser combat, mind you, and well before Tech II weapons were even considered. Suddenly frigate and cruiser pilots who hadn't trained cruise missiles yet had another week's worth of training they needed before they could fight. I think it added 20-30% to the time you needed to fight in cruisers, and nearly doubled the time for frigates.
Somehow I doubt are general downgrade of reqs would be nearly as traumatic.
Harry Voyager ____________________ I'm not an idiot; I just play one on the forums. |
SunWuKong
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 16:50:00 -
[66]
Edited by: SunWuKong on 02/02/2006 16:55:09 All those that have no life and all the time in the world to boost XP can go play the games that allow it.
As for me, the time based system is what attracted me and I'm not too sure how interested I would stay with EVE if that ever changed.
In any case, the skills that are acquired by actually playing the game do give a considerable advantage against someone who had the same skills but not much game time experience. (such as which fittings work best, where better trade routes, complexes, etc.) Plus, the more time you have to play, the more ISK you have, the better implants you have, thereby learning faster....
|
Threv Echandari
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 16:51:00 -
[67]
After playing several MMOs that used the other methods , this train while you sleep is awesome.. I subscribe to the Matrix theory and that your really not learning the skills just training your brain to interface with with the systems better. Of course I have not trained a single thing to V yet but when I have to I will.
|
Flyer11
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 16:51:00 -
[68]
yup RED-A Member |
Laura Briggs
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 17:13:00 -
[69]
As Harry says, I have no problem with the system. It's just the requirements to get into some ships or to use certain equipment are ridiculous. It shouldn't take MONHTS to get into a ship. ANY SHIP. There are already enough detterents to getting into a ship you like, such as ISK and/or minerals. Also, you have to be able to outfit your ship once you get it. Not to mention any other misc. skills you might need on the way.
|
Karazaan
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 17:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Meatha
[...] On the same note. There are plenty of people a couple of YEARS ahead of me. I know that I will NEVER catch up. Even if I could dedicate more time or effort it wouldn't matter.
I sure hope that you are or are planning to seriously train some of the learning skills. And don't listen to the detractors, level 5 are always worth it in THAT fields.
On a side note: You don't ever need to catch up with people YEARS ahead of you as long as you can fly ships you like... |
|
DB Preacher
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 17:28:00 -
[71]
I simply wouldn't be playing eve today without it.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL6) Tanto
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
|
Xascor
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 17:43:00 -
[72]
I like EVE's system better than any other MMORPG I've played.
- It allows veterans to remain veterans and not become "just another level 60".
- It keeps players without as much playtime as others from falling behind.
- It takes away the feeling of "I have to play tonight to get to level XX!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Still working on |
Coveney
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 17:54:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Xascor I like EVE's system better than any other MMORPG I've played.
- It allows veterans to remain veterans and not become "just another level 60".
- It keeps players without as much playtime as others from falling behind.
- It takes away the feeling of "I have to play tonight to get to level XX!"
Nicely put Xascor, that is why i play Eve. | <--- He made me do it. |
trust trd
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 18:14:00 -
[74]
I like it and don't think it needs to be changed (Though I think the tractor beam reqs is a little overboard)
|
Tara Armitage
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 18:30:00 -
[75]
Love it.
|
Dedekind
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 18:33:00 -
[76]
I like it as it is. It should be equal for all players. Shouldn't matter whether you are a casual Eve player or a patient who plays Eve 24 hours a day. Like someone said, the current system is good for people who have some real life, for example students and people with family to take care of.
|
Femlin Tilith
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 19:18:00 -
[77]
I vote for keeping it the way it is. Although the level 5 training times on some of these skills are ridiculous. Me thinks training times should be reduced by a 1/3. This would alleviate some of the frustation in waiting.
Omega Corp....the beautiful people |
Manfred Doomhammer
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 19:32:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Manfred Doomhammer on 02/02/2006 19:35:19 the system is fine as it is..
on a sidenote, after reading the responses and some people suggesting a mixed system (both skill over time + bonus for skill usage..)....
i am stunned not more vets remember that this HAS BEEN in game actually for some time, albeit a long time ago...
got taken out because of course it was exploited like hell..
iirc you could train things like mechanics at insane rates by activating armor reppers all the time or something like that...
[edited:] or rather, it was fitting and unfitting some modules that increased that skill iirc now
----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
|
Tresh Keen
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 19:34:00 -
[79]
i would not play eve when the skill system is based on experience.
Cheers, Trash
|
Gauge Lockhart
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 19:37:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Gauge Lockhart on 02/02/2006 19:39:47 Edited by: Gauge Lockhart on 02/02/2006 19:38:03 I HATE it!!
I have no life so i can spend at least 18 hours a day grinding and powerleveling in my Mom's basement... thats how i NORMALLY get to be the Uber L337-nessz0rz in all my OTHER games! My e-peen is HUGE in WoW, Guild wars, EQ, CoH, MxO, UO! I LOVE being able to twink my characters to make them completely over powered! When i AM sleeping i can STILL grind using my macro in those other games.. and, just to prove that i'm DA MAN, i buy as much money as i can from IGE and E-Bay! I'm a gaming GAWD!!
...except in EVE... I can't Powerlevel (skills take real time), i can't go kill the uber-monsters for their fat loot, i'll get banned if i buy ISK, if i go around ganking people, the Concord gets me or other players get me. PvP actually takes real PLAYER skills... i can't just be uber because of my equipment; i actually have to know what i'[m doing! i can't be an immature ASS on the forums, because they're actually moderated well and the other posters call me on my trolling and flaming because most of them are real intellectuals and are mature...
This game is NO fun for a L337 gamer like me!
(the above was satire. Gauge Lockhart is an upstanding EVE citizen who fully supports the Skill learning process... although, i DO wish it were a tad faster... i want a Cruiser! ) _______________________________________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
|
|
Manfred Doomhammer
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 19:43:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Gauge Lockhart Edited by: Gauge Lockhart on 02/02/2006 19:39:47 Edited by: Gauge Lockhart on 02/02/2006 19:38:03 I HATE it!!
I have no life so i can spend at least 18 hours a day grinding and powerleveling in my Mom's basement... thats how i NORMALLY get to be the Uber L337-nessz0rz in all my OTHER games! My e-peen is HUGE in WoW, Guild wars, EQ, CoH, MxO, UO! I LOVE being able to twink my characters to make them completely over powered! When i AM sleeping i can STILL grind using my macro in those other games.. and, just to prove that i'm DA MAN, i buy as much money as i can from IGE and E-Bay! I'm a gaming GAWD!!
...except in EVE... I can't Powerlevel (skills take real time), i can't go kill the uber-monsters for their fat loot, i'll get banned if i buy ISK, if i go around ganking people, the Concord gets me or other players get me. PvP actually takes real PLAYER skills... i can't just be uber because of my equipment; i actually have to know what i'[m doing! i can't be an immature ASS on the forums, because they're actually moderated well and the other posters call me on my trolling and flaming because most of them are real intellectuals and are mature...
This game is NO fun for a L337 gamer like me!
(the above was satire. Gauge Lockhart is an upstanding EVE citizen who fully supports the Skill learning process... although, i DO wish it were a tad faster... i want a Cruiser! )
you know, you should lighten up, and try sarcasm for a change ----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
|
Gonada
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 19:44:00 -
[82]
LOL @ guage
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
|
Wotann
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 19:44:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Wotann on 02/02/2006 19:46:31 Edited by: Wotann on 02/02/2006 19:44:44 I like the Eve skill system, the only "critic" that i have to say is that it is too slow...maybe make it faster isn't a bad idea...
|
Freada
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 20:07:00 -
[84]
yes, I like it as it is.
|
Galk
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 20:15:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Tripoli I love EVE's skill system more than anyone else does and there's plenty of people who can vouch for that.
He does.. It's TRUE
Originally by: Gierling I liked it a lot more before LEvel 5 skills became common as prereqs, now its just a ridiculous grind with the naked purpose of keepng you paying for months at a time.
Ohh and so is this.
______
It started so easy, do you want to carry on.
|
Rider Zane
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 20:30:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Rider Zane on 02/02/2006 20:31:40 Put it this way; In Earth and Beyond I maxed a Lv150 Jenquai Defender....after that the game had nothing left for me.
With a level based system your charcater development is limited and everyone essentially ends up the same. With skill based you are unlimited and players are more unique because of the skills they've chosen to develop.
|
Filan
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 20:39:00 -
[87]
EVE system is far better. and any wow players have no clue about exp grinding. after six years of Everquest, a lvl 70 wizard im never planning to do the level based grind again. in EVE my skills advance while im at work or even when i choose to goto a movie or watch TV. theres no "Oh i missed a good day of leveling" on holidays.
|
Hysenthlay
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 21:28:00 -
[88]
yes i like it...
working 60+ hours a week and still able to compete is a nice thing. Roughneck Mining at its best... |
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 21:35:00 -
[89]
The skill system in eve is one fo the best parts of it. I hope they never ever change it. What makes eve different is that there's no XP grind but there's an ISK grind. You do gain things by playing more but you aren't forced to in order to compete. The system lets us play as much or as little as we like without recourse. I like it :).
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Bob Banks
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 21:36:00 -
[90]
I don't mind it, but personally I prefer XP based and a bit of good old grinding, simply because I would be better at that.
It's not all bad though, it keeps running all the time.
However if we both keep training at the same time me and someone who started 1 year before me will still have 1 years more points than me in 100 years (not that there are 100 years worth of skills :P)
the point is there is no chance of me catching up with him on SP, whereas I easily could on XP.
mind you it stops chinese hardcore 24/7 grinders becoming uber uber |337 in one week then selling his character off etc etc...
|
|
Tamu Vos
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 21:36:00 -
[91]
Dammit was supposed to be me sorry, Im bob banks :D
_______________________________________________
FIX THE BLOODY DRONES - SIGN HERE |
Kular
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 21:38:00 -
[92]
Yes I love it!
Compared to "skills" in WOW EvE is great.
EVE= thinking and learning through experience WOW= grinding 24/7 to be the "best" with no real skill For God, Empire, and Sarum! |
Kular
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 21:42:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Wotann Edited by: Wotann on 02/02/2006 19:46:31 Edited by: Wotann on 02/02/2006 19:44:44 I like the Eve skill system, the only "critic" that i have to say is that it is too slow...maybe make it faster isn't a bad idea...
Heh skills might seem to be slow now, but just remember most of us that have been here 2-3 years had to learn all the skills you guys are now BEFORE the Advanced learning, and vast majority of implants we're in the game.
When I started it took a good 3-4 months minimum to train for a battleship. Now I hear people jumping into them 2-3 weeks... into the game! For God, Empire, and Sarum! |
Tamu Vos
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 21:43:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Kular Yes I love it!
WOW= grinding 24/7 to be the "best" with no real skill
I disagree, there is skill in WoW, it takes time to master it and understand it... and get the hang of doing more than the basics...
_______________________________________________
FIX THE BLOODY DRONES - SIGN HERE |
Kular
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 21:56:00 -
[95]
I disagree, sure you can win tons of duels with knowledge of your char, even be the best killer in a BG, but at the end of the day you know who the GrandMarshall for the week is...?
Thats right whichever person(team) does BG 24/7 that week... So yes there are skills to it, but Grinding is 90% of the game( at 60) For God, Empire, and Sarum! |
Himser
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 22:09:00 -
[96]
I'm a fairly new player, and the one thing I really dislike about Eve is the skill system. I have a ton of time to kill playing an MMO, but Eve's skill system caters more to casual players. It's frustrating for me to put in long hours playing and not be able to have any additional advancement to show for it. Right now I've got more ISK than I can ever hope to use within the next 6 months just because I have to wait for skills to train.
It would be better if performing an action had a chance of adding a small amount of skill points in the associated skill ie: every time I fire a medium laser thereĈd be a .001% chance of gaining some SP in medium lasers. That could work along side the current skill system to keep everyone happy.
|
Manfred Doomhammer
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 22:16:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Himser I'm a fairly new player, and the one thing I really dislike about Eve is the skill system. I have a ton of time to kill playing an MMO, but Eve's skill system caters more to casual players. It's frustrating for me to put in long hours playing and not be able to have any additional advancement to show for it. Right now I've got more ISK than I can ever hope to use within the next 6 months just because I have to wait for skills to train.
It would be better if performing an action had a chance of adding a small amount of skill points in the associated skill ie: every time I fire a medium laser thereĈd be a .001% chance of gaining some SP in medium lasers. That could work along side the current skill system to keep everyone happy.
as mentioned before, they had that in for a brief period, but what could you say, it got exploited nearly instantly, resulting in CCP taking that SP gain through usage out again, wich was a wise decission actually. we dont want to have macroers not only gain a ton of isk, but also a ton of skillpoints they could use to increase their sells when they get rid of their accounts on ebay (wich is of course against the eula) ----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
|
Torg Jupiter
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 22:30:00 -
[98]
60 % yes. theres other things to complain about, but not quite the skill system.
|
Galifardeua
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 22:39:00 -
[99]
Love the system. I hate when on other MMORPGs it's too hard to play with friends because of level differences.
|
Mortelli
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 22:44:00 -
[100]
I'd like to see some kind of mixed system of the two.
|
|
Spyder Monkey
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 22:46:00 -
[101]
I love the system as it is. I don't care how realistic or not it is. For me, it removes the wack-a-mole aspect and allows me to play the game without always thinking about improving a certain skill for an hour, then another skill for an hour.
|
Tamu Vos
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 23:17:00 -
[102]
I bet that the people who like it are older than the people who dont like it...
eve is a mature persons (I did write man but I thought it would **** someone off) game, people with a lot less time and different views that us young'uns!
/me was 18 not too long ago
_______________________________________________
FIX THE BLOODY DRONES - SIGN HERE |
Shirei
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 23:22:00 -
[103]
Please keep it as it is, there are enough sense-less level-grind games around.
|
Pihls XIIX
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 23:30:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Pihls XIIX on 02/02/2006 23:30:54 I vote stay as it is.. too see anyone got some wierd desire too turn eve into some "space wow" I started playing EVE becouse of the unic system as EVE have. With skills
'working' class' I wounder shall the other part be social takers hu?
I would just drop all my accounts if ccp even did anything remotly close too other exp brr
__________________________________ Freighter hauler His free time goes to dating girls
|
Kim Chee
|
Posted - 2006.02.02 23:47:00 -
[105]
yep, it works.
With purely xp based skill training, there's always the danger of people "power-leveling" up to the top while spending very little real effort. A character shouldn't be able to fly a Titan 3 days after they create their character.
I also like the real-time aspect because on those occasions that I *do* have to be away from the game, I don't feel like I'm slipping back. I set a long skill training and can still accomplish something, even if I can't play for a while.
Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion. Kerr Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
|
Tenacha Khan
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 00:03:00 -
[106]
I vote to kieep it the way it is.
People always try to find a grind in eve
|
hydraSlav
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 18:46:00 -
[107]
As one of those "working class" of players, i love EVE's skill system. When i come from work, i dont have to grind my way to advance, i can actually PLAY the game i am paying for.
|
Vendris Saral
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 20:43:00 -
[108]
I think it's a very interesting approach to handling skills in an MMO. Overall, I like the approach, and can't come up with a solution I personally like better.
It's hard, being new and drooling over tech 2 assault frigates and interceptors that will take me months to train for. On the other hand, it's great to play the game as much or as little as I want, and do whatever I feel like doing when I log in, without having to worry about grinding for experience.
|
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 20:55:00 -
[109]
i'm happy as it is \/
|
Dianabolic
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 21:23:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Himser I'm a fairly new player, and the one thing I really dislike about Eve is the skill system. I have a ton of time to kill playing an MMO, but Eve's skill system caters more to casual players. It's frustrating for me to put in long hours playing and not be able to have any additional advancement to show for it. Right now I've got more ISK than I can ever hope to use within the next 6 months just because I have to wait for skills to train.
It would be better if performing an action had a chance of adding a small amount of skill points in the associated skill ie: every time I fire a medium laser thereĈd be a .001% chance of gaining some SP in medium lasers. That could work along side the current skill system to keep everyone happy.
Your advantage is that you can make more isk than the casual players. As stated we did used to get an increase for using something that had the skill related to the module, but it was a) abused, and b) not in keeping with the skillsystem itself.
Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither
|
|
Haniblecter Teg
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 21:32:00 -
[111]
Get out of this game OP.
How can you even make a post like that?
I say we ban you and your real account you horrible douche. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever |
Raeff
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 21:34:00 -
[112]
eve system is great .. maybe take some time off the super long skills, but i'll NEVER go back to the XP grind .. offline skill training ftw
|
Wild Rho
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 21:38:00 -
[113]
I love the skill system in EvE. Most of the reasons why are already posted so I'll not repeat them.
|
Uael
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 21:39:00 -
[114]
As a father of three kids all under the age of 6, my play time can be extremely limited. I LOVE the skill system in EVE. Its one of my favorite features!
Just my 2 cents, since its a poll and all,
/Salute
|
Issalzul
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 21:47:00 -
[115]
It's awesome. I play FFXI and other games quite frequently (Guilty gear marathons with the roomies and whatnot) so my time can be quite limited. Now I have friends who just joined who actually help out in missions. It's very cool.
Plus, I don't have to dedicate hours upon hours grinding. Do a few mish, get isk, sell those components, try a complex, sleep.
Best system ever.
|
Krakkan
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 22:19:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Krakkan on 03/02/2006 22:21:00 I like the time based system for eve a bit frustrating training high lvl skills that takes forever and not gaining anything noticable from it though..
I like skill based systems the most(the ones in UO etc. NOT wow/exp system). perfect and the most real system. wouldnt fit a space game i think
|
Szordin
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 22:32:00 -
[117]
I like the way the skill system works, however I have to agree with the other stating the fact that too much stuff requires lvl 5. If this game required an xp grind I wouldn't be playing it.
It seems like any new piece of equipment or skill requires lvl 5 in 1 or more skills. example: tractor beams: engineering and science lvl 5? Comeon thats a bit much for such a simple module.
So the game has kinda come to the point where its basicly you just go through the list training everything to lvl 5 in whichever order suits your goal. Its not an option to leave anything at lvl 4 anymore because if you want to use any new ship or module you will need lvl 5 in a few skills.
|
Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 23:17:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Laura Briggs As Harry says, I have no problem with the system. It's just the requirements to get into some ships or to use certain equipment are ridiculous. It shouldn't take MONHTS to get into a ship. ANY SHIP. There are already enough detterents to getting into a ship you like, such as ISK and/or minerals. Also, you have to be able to outfit your ship once you get it. Not to mention any other misc. skills you might need on the way.
What about dreads? Or carriers? Or Mothershps? You think a 1 month old n00blet should be able to fly one? I think every alt in the game who's main has deep pockets [read as a ****e load of peeps] would have them. Talk about throwing the balance out with the baby!
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
|
Sochin
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 23:20:00 -
[119]
Besides the pvp, EVE's skill system is the games best feature.
Nemo me impune lacessit
|
Bbllaarrgg
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 23:23:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Get out of this game OP.
How can you even make a post like that?
I say we ban you and your real account you horrible douche.
I dont think the OP expressed any opinion either way, he was simply asking for yours
I like it as it is. _________________________
Insert fnord here. |
|
Kaylana Syi
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 23:28:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 03/02/2006 23:43:17
Originally by: Himser I'm a fairly new player, and the one thing I really dislike about Eve is the skill system. I have a ton of time to kill playing an MMO, but Eve's skill system caters more to casual players. It's frustrating for me to put in long hours playing and not be able to have any additional advancement to show for it. Right now I've got more ISK than I can ever hope to use within the next 6 months just because I have to wait for skills to train.
It would be better if performing an action had a chance of adding a small amount of skill points in the associated skill ie: every time I fire a medium laser thereĈd be a .001% chance of gaining some SP in medium lasers. That could work along side the current skill system to keep everyone happy.
Sorry but no you don't have enough isk in the game for 6 months. Obviously you don't PvP or do risky things in ships. Your idea would break the game.
First off you can have a cruiser in a matter of days from the beginning of character creation. That is a 3-8 million dollar investment. In the first month you can have 3 or 4 of your learning skills trained to level 5. Elite skill books are ~4.5mil isk. Assume a thorax or rupture and you are now talking ~25mil. Lets factor in the loss of ships, insurance, modules, ammo and time investment for the operation you are running a very hefty bill.
If you sit in a mining belt all the time making riskfree isk then you are discounted from the argument because you choose simplicity and complacency. This game revolves around PvP combat.
Now In the second month... lets get you into a battlecruiser. Oops, 24 more million.
Not to mention all the skills you have bought along the way for short skilling.
I would say in the first 3 months your running isk for your expenses would be well over 100mil. In that time you can be in an assault frigate, interceptor or be a higly trained battlecruiser/gang-oriented player.
BTW I play WoW/CoV-CoH and am ex-SWG and if this game was anywhere near them or if CCP was as flexable as their DEVs I would leave after 2.5 years of playing.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
|
Calleb
|
Posted - 2006.02.03 23:53:00 -
[122]
Well - alot of posts here and i cant be bothered to read em all, but there used to be an element of experience training applied to skills, years back. I think it was removed cus of an expliot, You got points for using items (such as armour repairers), but peeps wrote macros to stealth train skills. Typical that some ar***e peeps should find a way of bug***ing it up for all of us.
Anyhow cus of this history i now have 256069 points in mechanics (earned completely fairly i must add, and completely worthless). Does anyone else have more SP than the max in any one skill cus of this?
|
Al Thorr
|
Posted - 2006.02.04 00:28:00 -
[123]
Skill system is fine as it is - tho I must admit skill books should be made more expensive by at least a factor of 1.5
the experience ballot is rather ill thought out. is it a gun being fired at a player or npc .... for example? but at the end of the day the experience factor is too easily conned.
Keep it simple amd relatively straight forward.
Regards Al Thor
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
|
Darlan Flame
|
Posted - 2006.02.04 00:45:00 -
[124]
So many skills these days have level V prereqs because most of them are for people who want to SPECIALIZE in one said area. You shouldn't be a superuberleet pilot who specializes in everything. That sort of takes away the meaning of the word "specialize". Find your niche and fill it.
|
Relain Linday
|
Posted - 2006.02.04 01:58:00 -
[125]
I would like to seeless level 5 prereq's they are a real grind. But I like it the way it is in terms of how its time not how long you play. I think some have already said this to some extent but hey ho I will say it again. I have set up this character to be a pure Amaar character. ie. No other race of ships or non Amaar weapons will go on those ships. I think it wuld be cool if I got some sort of extra racial bonus for this. It would to some extent make peeps specialise a bit more. and make battles a bit more fun. Maybe provide a few surprises.
|
Haargoth19
|
Posted - 2006.02.04 02:03:00 -
[126]
I really like the system here, but there could be some improvements
|
Erosie
|
Posted - 2006.02.04 03:02:00 -
[127]
The best thing about these skill system is that i can switch skills whenever I want without loosing that time invested! This is the greatest part of this system imho. BTW im pretty new, but i have to ask, why do i always get the warning/message that I won't loose the time when i switch my skills?? Was this different in the past? or will it be different when training higher skills??
anyways EvE system=RockON!
|
Niffo
|
Posted - 2006.02.04 05:29:00 -
[128]
Skill system as-is is great - much better than grind-fest XP games that just benefit people with 14 hours a day to play.
|
Zeke Novak
|
Posted - 2006.02.04 09:21:00 -
[129]
I love it personally. I played Ultima for a while, and even though the skill system was far superior to any XP based tripe, it still had the problem of requiring an insane amount of grinding to get anywhere. EVE is much more fun, since you can do whatever the hell you want while Dohicky Manufacturing V is training, as opposed to making 100000 Dohicky's clicking over and over again.
|
SunWuKong
|
Posted - 2006.02.04 20:37:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Himser I'm a fairly new player, and the one thing I really dislike about Eve is the skill system. I have a ton of time to kill playing an MMO, but Eve's skill system caters more to casual players. It's frustrating for me to put in long hours playing and not be able to have any additional advancement to show for it. Right now I've got more ISK than I can ever hope to use within the next 6 months just because I have to wait for skills to train.
It would be better if performing an action had a chance of adding a small amount of skill points in the associated skill ie: every time I fire a medium laser thereĈd be a .001% chance of gaining some SP in medium lasers. That could work along side the current skill system to keep everyone happy.
Use that extra money to purchase some UBER attribute implants. That'll speed learning along a bit, just be more careful where you fly cause it will hurt much more if you are podded with those in there.
|
|
Steppa
|
Posted - 2006.02.05 02:19:00 -
[131]
What we need is a mentoring system. This would, of course, require a Mentoring skill to be trained, as part of the Learning skills area. It would grant the ability to help train someone else more quickly than they could learn on their own.
The Mentor would have to have V in whatever skill the pupil wants. Let's say the Mentor could teach that given skill to 1 pupil at level 1 and +1 pupil per level of Mentor skill.
Being mentored means the pupil trains the skill at x2 speed. Mentoring does not stop the Mentor's personal training goals, but does slow them down by 50%. This would be modified -10% per level of Mentoring the Mentor has trained, thus at level V Mentoring, he would have no penalty at all for helping his mates.
Make it a requirement that only corpmates could be trained.
I can see highly skilled characters opening up "universities" and charging for training :)
I can definitely see people taking advantage of this and it especially helps the newer guys.
|
Anderi Bourdieu
|
Posted - 2006.02.05 04:33:00 -
[132]
Admitting that he hasn't read all the posts....it's 5 pages...come on!
Though the skill system is revolutionary...i.e. new. It ultimately will be self defeating. Why? Well, because a new player wanting to access the high level stuff will know that he can't until he spends 2 yrs. training skills. When a new player sees the time he must invest he will simply say, "Screw this, I'm out of here...."
Sorry, that's the MMO truth...
________________________________________________ Commander Anderi Bourdieu - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
|
Nize
|
Posted - 2006.02.05 07:09:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Anderi Bourdieu
Sorry, that's the MMO truth...
I think the player number increases over the past months indicate your comment is completly wrong, guess all people aren't after being the l33t'ist and instead play the game to have a fun time.
As to the skill system... best system ever. No mindless clicking to train skills or kill x mobs to gain levels, you can play the game as you want to and given thats the basis for Eve the system is a perfect fit.
|
Larsonist
|
Posted - 2006.02.05 11:09:00 -
[134]
I dunno if anyone has said this as an idear yet, i stopped reading after page 2 and my eyes becoming like glass...
A few suggestions brought up gave me the idea that maybe the level 5 aspect of skill training/pre-requisites could be changed to enhance "specialization" in a skill set. For example, training to level 4 could be done via the current system, but to achieve level 5, actual usage of the skill...which is not technically level 5 yet but more of a gray area between the completed level 4 and the eventual level 5, would allow for completion. Just a thought.
|
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2006.02.05 11:31:00 -
[135]
Having played many grind games (using a skill is the only way to increase) it as well as both points games (as the game progresses you get points to use to advance skills) and level based games (each new level advances you skills) I have come to the conclution that the system EvE uses is one of the best.
While it is true that I would love for the game to have some way to through action and practice become better it is equally true that such an addition would cause more troubble than its worth.
In the early days of EvE you did get training bonuses for using skills... this however only led to people blasting rocks with lasers all day long in 1.0 systems so it was removed.
In EvE skill training will not give an advantage to the player that can spend the most time, it will however give a wide range of other bonuses to the active player.
Isk, knowhow, RL skill in the game and so forth.
One of the things I really like with EvE is that even with a player like me that has 30+ mil skillpoints on him I can meet upp with a new player and have fun playing with him/her despite the skillpont difference.
If I team upp with a two week old player and he/she helps me do lev 4 missions that two week old player can actually meen a risky mission becomes an easy one. In normal grind games such as WoW joining together two people like that is impossible. A lev 10 char with even the best possible gear can in no way assist even a lev 40 char with crappy gear, in reality the lev 10 will probably get the lev 40 killed simply by being there.
In short, I prefer the EvE RL time to train skills above any other system I have thus far seen.
|
Phobes
|
Posted - 2006.02.05 11:38:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Maderda Kuhal The third option of course. Neither of the first two work well independently nor do they make sense. I can initially learn the basics of a skill simply by reading about how it is done. Then hone the skill by practicing it. You can only become so adept at something by reading. Sooner or later you have to actually put what you've read into practice to be really any good at it.
Example: I can read about how EVE is played until my eyeballs drop out. To be able to play the game with any skill I actually have to get in there and do it for a time. Conversly, I could go right in and play. But I won't know alot without reading about how it's played, either on the forums or from chats.
For those who were not around In The Beginning, you could receive experience by doing things. That was removed because some were abusing it (macro). I guess it was easier to throw something out rather than try and fix it.
Of course it's far too late to change the way skills are trained so any opinion will remain exactly that, an unrealized opinion.
I partially agree with this. Skills should be just as they are now, but the more you use them the better they get.
|
Dr Caymus
|
Posted - 2006.02.05 16:26:00 -
[137]
The EVE skill system is totally outstanding...an unequivocal success. I love it almost as much as Tripoli
I have followed the game since 2001...this fan site was extremely active, even pre-beta during development. One of the original game concepts was to deliver a skill system that was "time-based" rather than "activity-based" (for lack of better descriptive terms) so that the casual gamer or "weekend warrior" would be able to remain competitive with the 24/7 power gamer, at least with respect to skill base. I commend CCP for staying the course, only wavering slightly and briefly once, with this skill set philosophy.
The one brief departure from a pure time-based skill system was in the summer and early fall of 2003, shortly after the game's release, when a "hybrid" system was in effect...where a small amount of skill points were awarded to certain skills for in-game activities such as activating/deactivating modules, docking/undocking, etc. This, of course, was exploited by pilots setting up lengthy autopilot routes around secure space, repetitively opening and closing cargo contaners or activating/deactivating certain modules, etc. A few players claimed at the time to have gained up to 1 million extra skill points in this way.
New players are not at a huge disadvantage. I think the 100,000 subscriber statistic speaks for itself in this respect (congratulations, CCP!!) Think of the 80/20 rule here...the skill system is an excellent example...you get 80% of the benefit with the first 20% of the effort. In other words, you can get to level 4 in a skill, gaining 80% of the sklll's benefit, in about 20% of the time it requires to get to level 5. Furthermore, another player said it well in a different post recently: being competitive in EVE is 1/3 skills, 1/3 equipment and 1/3 player ability. With properly managed skill growth, a player can be competitive in a chosen field with just a few million skill points.
Advanced skills and level 5 prerequisites are an important part of the system also. These provide the more seasoned player with new goals and challenges...paths to differentiate further and gain greater levels of expertise. The game requires commitment, dedication and patience...a two year old player should be able to be better at something than a six month old player.
I personally look forward to continued evolution of the current system.
|
TimeKeepr
|
Posted - 2006.02.05 16:42:00 -
[138]
skill systems is great as it is. its what makes eve successful.
|
DrElJefeMD
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 09:57:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer
Originally by: Himser I'm a fairly new player, and the one thing I really dislike about Eve is the skill system. I have a ton of time to kill playing an MMO, but Eve's skill system caters more to casual players. It's frustrating for me to put in long hours playing and not be able to have any additional advancement to show for it. Right now I've got more ISK than I can ever hope to use within the next 6 months just because I have to wait for skills to train.
It would be better if performing an action had a chance of adding a small amount of skill points in the associated skill ie: every time I fire a medium laser thereĈd be a .001% chance of gaining some SP in medium lasers. That could work along side the current skill system to keep everyone happy.
as mentioned before, they had that in for a brief period, but what could you say, it got exploited nearly instantly, resulting in CCP taking that SP gain through usage out again, wich was a wise decission actually. we dont want to have macroers not only gain a ton of isk, but also a ton of skillpoints they could use to increase their sells when they get rid of their accounts on ebay (wich is of course against the eula)
Here is the problem, as you are not looking at it from someone who started playing the game right after the holidays (I started around 28 Dec 2005). No matter how hard I play at the game, it doesn't matter in that it does not affect my progression. I am not a powergamer. I am a 36 year old CPA who was looking for something after quitting SWG. What I have come to understand about this game is that you really are not even close to being competitive in any way if you have less than say 6 mill skill points. I am at the point of just logging on once every couple of days for the next 6 months to 9 months as it has become nearly pointless otherwise. And here's where I have a problem. I would rather play the game to be rewarded with skills instead of just logging on to select new skills to train.
This is not to say that I do not understand the allure of the current way the skill system works. However, if everyone had to start out with a new character, I am just curious how many would "really" enjoy the current system and how many of the people who are saying that they love the current system are 3 year vets with 22 million skill points?
Regards & Stay Classy
|
Darlan Flame
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 10:09:00 -
[140]
I wanna meet all these new players who get 60 billion isk in their first month and have to spend the next five waiting to be able to spend it, because I've always spend MY time in between skill training scraping together isk.
|
|
TheNecromancer
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 11:02:00 -
[141]
I think the skill system in eve is perfect..dont change it
|
Deja Thoris
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 11:04:00 -
[142]
Originally by: DrElJefeMD
Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer
Originally by: Himser I'm a fairly new player, and the one thing I really dislike about Eve is the skill system. I have a ton of time to kill playing an MMO, but Eve's skill system caters more to casual players. It's frustrating for me to put in long hours playing and not be able to have any additional advancement to show for it. Right now I've got more ISK than I can ever hope to use within the next 6 months just because I have to wait for skills to train.
It would be better if performing an action had a chance of adding a small amount of skill points in the associated skill ie: every time I fire a medium laser thereĈd be a .001% chance of gaining some SP in medium lasers. That could work along side the current skill system to keep everyone happy.
as mentioned before, they had that in for a brief period, but what could you say, it got exploited nearly instantly, resulting in CCP taking that SP gain through usage out again, wich was a wise decission actually. we dont want to have macroers not only gain a ton of isk, but also a ton of skillpoints they could use to increase their sells when they get rid of their accounts on ebay (wich is of course against the eula)
Here is the problem, as you are not looking at it from someone who started playing the game right after the holidays (I started around 28 Dec 2005). No matter how hard I play at the game, it doesn't matter in that it does not affect my progression. I am not a powergamer. I am a 36 year old CPA who was looking for something after quitting SWG. What I have come to understand about this game is that you really are not even close to being competitive in any way if you have less than say 6 mill skill points. I am at the point of just logging on once every couple of days for the next 6 months to 9 months as it has become nearly pointless otherwise. And here's where I have a problem. I would rather play the game to be rewarded with skills instead of just logging on to select new skills to train.
This is not to say that I do not understand the allure of the current way the skill system works. However, if everyone had to start out with a new character, I am just curious how many would "really" enjoy the current system and how many of the people who are saying that they love the current system are 3 year vets with 22 million skill points?
Regards & Stay Classy
I've just started a new combat character.
I'm training it for 2 weeks and then stopping training.
It will be competative, it wont be uber. Fun is to be had at all levels of the game.
|
Ysolde Xen
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 11:48:00 -
[143]
EVE's skill system is my favourite method of advancement. Grinding for XP sucks.
Consider this an EVE skills 4tw answer for the poll.
-----
Just because you couldn't get a ship to do what you wanted doesn't mean it's a crap ship - it means you're a crap pilot of that ship.
|
Fto Cruise
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 12:00:00 -
[144]
Move all pre-reqs to level 4, with the bonus level 5 gives you being doubled.
|
babyblue
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 12:07:00 -
[145]
I preferred the original system in Beta, where it was mainly time based but you gained SP for module use. For example, you would get a small amount of SP each time you used your afterburner, towards the afterburner skill. This is quite realistic imho. The only problem was that people could sit outside of the station with their AB on in order to "level up". If there were some hybrid system where you could get a small, limited amount of SP "maximum" per day from actually using your kit, then that would be perfect.
|
Rodj Blake
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 12:13:00 -
[146]
The skill system is Eve.
Change the system, break the game.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Felicia Stone
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 12:21:00 -
[147]
I'm a new player aswell and I love the skill system in Eve. An example for me is the fact that I'm off to Canada for 2 weeks and when I get back I'll have Cruiser 5 done \o/
I think that a positive side effect of the skill system is that it encourages a more mature player base. When I say mature I'm not just talking age here as I think that having the patience to get the most out of the Eve skill system shows a high level of mental maturity (as opposed to the 'must have best stuff now!' mentality). People with job/kids/other half have a level playing field with people that have more time to play.
The fact that the system does attract the more 'mature' player base is also one of Eve's most positive points.
Flic
|
Testy Mctest
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 12:30:00 -
[148]
XP, because Im a powergamer and even after starting late into the game, could catch up the big boys by hitting the level cap.
Time based games can only have so much shelf life. Eventually SP outweighs playing ability.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
Rafein
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 12:30:00 -
[149]
Personally, I like the skill system.
But honestly, Eve is both. You grind for isk, while skill is freely given.
And in Combat, both are important. You can have all the skills in the game, but if you don;t have the isk to buy and outfit a ship, it won't do you any good. And Vice Versa.
Isk and Skill are mutual, Having one and not that other puts you at a disavantage
|
Absolute Evil
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 12:35:00 -
[150]
The EVE skilling system is great. The newer players complaining that they get no benefit from playing long hours are incorrect, you are learning from your experience. How many of you started this game and got BBQ by NPC rats and can now destroy them without thinking. This game trains you to start taking on bigger and bigger foes, till the point you actually start to PVP and that difference is vast. Any player that thinks after 1 month he can go into low sec space and rule is going to be bitterly dissapointed. Take your time, focus on the aspect of the game you wish to play and then slowly start to explore. A 6 month old player in a balanced fitted ship can do a lot in this game! Fools rush in where brave men fear to tread! (And keep them coming I say!!)
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
|
Leon Gallet
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 13:44:00 -
[151]
I like the skill system used in Eve, even to the point that I'm happy with the level 5 skills taking a long time to train up. I would even be happy if the training time for level 5 was increased. It would make sure that dedicated players, got the reward, where-as the "I want it yesterday" type players, would be really p*ssed-off. The only change I would like to see, though it's extremely unlikely to happen, is to add a factor determined by your attribute, to the skill when it's in use. As an example, if you have high perception, your gunnery skills are a few percent better than a character with low perception, even if the skill level is the same.
Enjoy your gaming.
Leon. |
Jaguar Dragon
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 15:35:00 -
[152]
One possible way to help. add in a 3'rd level of learning skills for all attributes. make it a requirment to have all lvl-2 tier learning skils to lvl-5. this would help for those that have been in eve and are faceing those lvl-5 skills and high ranked skills
|
Zeigmen Ganzalez
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 15:41:00 -
[153]
Current skillsys offcourse, this game is for grownups with a job ;) - if you want xpbased go play WoW etc. Cheers Z
|
Rosenkranz
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 16:26:00 -
[154]
I've played a lot of MMO's and I like Eve's skill system.
The biggest disadvantage in xp sytems is power leveling xp hohos. Eve's skill system doesn't not attract or encourage these type of folks and they move on to other games.
This is fine by me as I've run across quite a few of them in other games and Eve could really do with them.
While we do have loot and isk hohos, those folks aren't nearly the jerks that xp hohos seem to be.
|
Incident
|
Posted - 2006.02.06 16:28:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Steppa What we need is a mentoring system. This would, of course, require a Mentoring skill to be trained, as part of the Learning skills area. It would grant the ability to help train someone else more quickly than they could learn on their own.
The Mentor would have to have V in whatever skill the pupil wants. Let's say the Mentor could teach that given skill to 1 pupil at level 1 and +1 pupil per level of Mentor skill.
Being mentored means the pupil trains the skill at x2 speed. Mentoring does not stop the Mentor's personal training goals, but does slow them down by 50%. This would be modified -10% per level of Mentoring the Mentor has trained, thus at level V Mentoring, he would have no penalty at all for helping his mates.
Make it a requirement that only corpmates could be trained.
I can see highly skilled characters opening up "universities" and charging for training :)
I can definitely see people taking advantage of this and it especially helps the newer guys.
SWG (pre-CU) had a similar system where to become a master at a particular skill you had to get * amount of Apprentice points - and you would get those by teaching someone else in a skill you already had, you didn't have to have the skill tree at lvl 4 (highest), just as long you had the skill that someone else wanted......
There is only do or do not, there is no try. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |