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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
753
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 06:05:00 -
[61] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Khergit Deserters wrote:If you're in a newbie corp and get wardecced, you just have to be patient. The wardec will go away someday. Sure, being almost powerless against more experienced, shinier-shipped wardeccers is kind of frustrating and humiliating. But on the other hand, the challenge is really interesting. I can remember some excellent war room strategy discussions among my newb corp members. Much more interesting than discussing ship fits, L4 missions tactics, etc. In the end dealing with the wardec made the corp leadership smarter and made us tighter overall as a team. And the guys who were just in it for themselves left the corp. That was an added bonus. This is the misconception, you aren't powerless at all and a few simple tactics will make them go away. Train electronic warfare and get into griffins then back those up with some cheap destroyers. Its enough damage to kill them and support to make it really hard for them to do much to your destroyers. Neither is high skill either, it just takes a little bit of thinking and the motivation to do something about your situation. The miners could never figure out how to tank their ship to the point CCP buffed them all so those two might be in short supply for your average highsec person.
All true advice here. The real problem is not that fighting back is too hard/impossible but that a **** ton of people don't know WTF they are doing. Without someone telling you the right stuff, it's easy to get lost in the vastness of possibility the game has to offer.
Knowledge of the game will let you do lots of neat things even with the low SP level of a newbie. High SP with poor knowledge of the game will make you a big fat target. |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
753
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 06:06:00 -
[62] - Quote
Canthan Rogue wrote:Attacking WT's should give you a suspect flag and sec status hit without Concord intervention in high sec. Right now, war decs are the only mechanic where you can kill soft targets without aggression penalties and without exposing yourself to external threats (bubbles, hot drops, fleets from other corps, etc).
You are literally paying CONCORD to close their eyes over any hostile action you commit toward the chosen entity and they should mark you as a suspect? That makes a shitload of sense man... |

ZAKURELL0 LINDA
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
16
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 06:36:00 -
[63] - Quote
Princess Bride wrote:Velicitia wrote:Wars are fine. The problem is the people who believe (wrongly) that they should be allowed to mine (or whatever) in complete peace and without any outside interaction (ganking, wars, whatever). Blaming customers for their expectations, and losing them as a result, is bad for business. If I was CCP, I would attempt to protect those players a bit more effectively than they currently are. there are already too many ways for player to avoid wardecs. and yet u still wanna nerf it......
if a simple google search and some reading is deemed too hard, EVE is probably too much for them.
PS. and he11 yea, the famous learning cliff is literally, a cliff. PS2. and yes, we r driving the bulldozer on top of the cliff, we liked it. |

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
124
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 06:42:00 -
[64] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:
Edit: War is declared rarely in real life? Ever heard of the USA?
You want to use the biggest warmongers on the planet as 'typical'?
|

Lugalbandak
Anunnaku Industrial Corp. Northern Associates.
243
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 07:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:If you're in a newbie corp and get wardecced, you just have to be patient. The wardec will go away someday. Sure, being almost powerless against more experienced, shinier-shipped wardeccers is kind of frustrating and humiliating. But on the other hand, the challenge is really interesting. I can remember some excellent war room strategy discussions among my newb corp members. Much more interesting than discussing ship fits, L4 missions tactics, etc. In the end dealing with the wardec made the corp leadership smarter and made us tighter overall as a team. And the guys who were just in it for themselves left the corp. That was an added bonus.
nice example , wars , loosing your assets somehwere in space etc is what really show who your good corpie friends are , and most of the time you get strionger out of it maybe with less wallet lol , but still |

Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
164
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 10:30:00 -
[66] - Quote
A wardec just makes me spend time modeling on SiSi for a while. |

Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
4345
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 10:37:00 -
[67] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Solstice Project wrote:
Edit: War is declared rarely in real life? Ever heard of the USA?
You want to use the biggest warmongers on the planet as 'typical'? Reread the OP.
He never said "typical". Doesn't matter, though, because for the USA it's pretty typical to invade a country and kill people.
Last i checked, when a country goes to war it usually invades the opposing side and starts killing it's people. Or, nowadays, doesn't even need to invade it and can just kill them remotely.
They just don't call it "war", they call it "bring freedom and democracy".
War is peace, obviously. |

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3413
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 11:30:00 -
[68] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:Solstice Project wrote:
Edit: War is declared rarely in real life? Ever heard of the USA?
You want to use the biggest warmongers on the planet as 'typical'? War is typical. My country has one of highest rates of poverty and illiteracy in the world and still has a huge defense budget. |

Omar Alharazaad
ZomCom
94
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 11:33:00 -
[69] - Quote
We have all sorts of Freedom here in the US... Thermobaric Freedom, 5.56mm Freedom, Wire-guided Freedom, Laser-guided Freedom, Unmanned Aerial Freedom, and of course Nuclear Freedom.... so much it's just hard not to share it. Honestly I'm somewhat surprised the rest of the world hasn't collectively turned on us in self-defense yet... In EVE, however, I'm still on the fence about wardecs. I sorta see the point of those who are intimidated by them, yet I'm also not terribly comfortable with npc corps serving as refuges for players who can't manage to act in an adult manner and face the consequences of their own actions. I know not everyone who stays in these corps does so for these reasons, but there are those who do. |

Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
284
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 11:36:00 -
[70] - Quote
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote:If the ISK is increased for wardecs then its been a worthwhile effort IMO.
I don't think CCP would like to see a mechanic that drives people to play another game, at least they won't want that to be an easy option in their game.
But like I said, war IS a necessary part of Eve and those who play accept that. Just it must be made harder to dec so many at any given time.
You're right. No one has noticed war decs until you brought it to our attention. Those high sec mass war dec corps are easy to avoid. They rarely move away from their farm zones. The war decs you want to worry about are from the the smaller guys that want to specifically hunt you. |

Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
284
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 11:44:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Solstice Project wrote:If they leave because of a basic game mechanic, then it's no loss.
Edit: War is declared rarely in real life? Ever heard of the USA?
Edit2: Have you considered the incoming wardecs because of this thread? USA? Actually, our last declared war was Korea. Granted, the ONLY reason we haven't declared war since then is because there was never an armistice signed. We are actually STILL officially at war with North Korea, and NATO won't let us officially declare any other wars until we officially end that one..... which will likely never happen. (so, yes.... that DOES mean North Korea is the victim of the worst perma-dec, in history... and we are the highsec griefers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations Might have been one or two you forgot about. |

Cyborg 497
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 11:47:00 -
[72] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:We have all sorts of Freedom here in the US... Thermobaric Freedom, 5.56mm Freedom, Wire-guided Freedom, Laser-guided Freedom, Unmanned Aerial Freedom, and of course Nuclear Freedom.... so much it's just hard not to share it. Honestly I'm somewhat surprised the rest of the world hasn't collectively turned on us in self-defense yet... In EVE, however, I'm still on the fence about wardecs. I sorta see the point of those who are intimidated by them, yet I'm also not terribly comfortable with npc corps serving as refuges for players who can't manage to act in an adult manner and face the consequences of their own actions. I know not everyone who stays in these corps does so for these reasons, but there are those who do.
I'm in an NPC corp for that very reason. I get numerous offers to join player-run Corps but I decline as I know the hassle. If I wanted to fight wars then I'd join a player-run Corp. The reason I'm not fighting wars is to get ISK to be able to afford losing ships fighting them later.
So player-run Corps suffer from membership which is not what CCP intended.
|

Cannibal Kane
My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse Cannibal Empire
2674
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 11:53:00 -
[73] - Quote
Cyborg 497 wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:We have all sorts of Freedom here in the US... Thermobaric Freedom, 5.56mm Freedom, Wire-guided Freedom, Laser-guided Freedom, Unmanned Aerial Freedom, and of course Nuclear Freedom.... so much it's just hard not to share it. Honestly I'm somewhat surprised the rest of the world hasn't collectively turned on us in self-defense yet... In EVE, however, I'm still on the fence about wardecs. I sorta see the point of those who are intimidated by them, yet I'm also not terribly comfortable with npc corps serving as refuges for players who can't manage to act in an adult manner and face the consequences of their own actions. I know not everyone who stays in these corps does so for these reasons, but there are those who do. I'm in an NPC corp for that very reason. I get numerous offers to join player-run Corps but I decline as I know the hassle. If I wanted to fight wars then I'd join a player-run Corp. The reason I'm not fighting wars is to get ISK to be able to afford losing ships fighting them later. So player-run Corps suffer from membership which is not what CCP intended.
Weak... |

Savnire Jacitu
FRONTLiNE GRP.
196
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 12:06:00 -
[74] - Quote
If people leave because they get decced/killed by me and my friends, then I'll always remember them by the corpse I keep in my tickle closet.
Everyday I'll wake up, walk over to that frost coated meat locker with the title "Tickle Closet" scrawled in pitiful black penmanship across the door, and quietly whisper into the ears of those who quit after there untimely death, "I'm so sorry."
But no, I really don't think people quit due to this ****
Side note, I want to dec npc corps. Would be nice. |

Mythrandier
Spacelane Salvage
149
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 12:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote:
A great idea IMO and a far more worthwhile post than some of the replies I've read on here.
No its not a great idea, its trying to turn EvE into wow.
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote:
OK, so the "hard-core" want Eve to stay the way it is, REGARDLESS of whether it drives people away. Meanwhile CCP make a pittance for such a high quality MMO as say World Of Warcraft makers Blizzard, who DO pander to all their customers.
Please provide proof that its driving people away. Given that EvE has grown year on year since its release, you will have to some pretty amazing math-fu to back up this here fabrication. Besides, comparing EvE to Wow is akin to comparing a Fisher Price My First Electronics Kit to the Large Hardon Collider.
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote: In a few years to come, will this marketing strategy leave Eve with a handful of dedicated followers, wardeccing as many corps as they please, or will a "re-balancing" occur which will greatly allow EVERYONE to enjoy this sci-fi simulator?
By GÇ£re-balancingGÇ¥ you of course mean nerfing into the ground. Turning EvE into Wow will simply kill it. Go look at what happened to other niche games like RO2 when they tried to chase the GÇ£big market shareGÇ¥ of CoD and BF. To save you the trouble, its now a dead game. Then mainstream crowd tried it, then went back to CoD, while the actual fans of RO no longer had a game to play because it had been dumbed down to the point of no longer being RO.
Orion Hellscream Chanlin wrote: I think saying, "If you wanna leave then you aren't cut out for Eve" is a narrow perspective - there IS room for improvement which will not affect the many who enjoy the risks and danger of Eve, while allowing more players to avoid that part within reason, and within the general concept of privateers always being at large.
How exactly will nerfing war decs, not affect the people who enjoy war decs?! What I read here is GÇ£There IS room for improvement which will not affect the way I playGÇ¥.
The attraction of EvE for A LOT of players ( I would guess the vast majority, but that just opinion) is the risk, the sandbox and that feeling of GÇ£here goesGÇ¥ every time you click undock. Anything which detracts from that is a bad idea imo.
|

Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1781
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 12:26:00 -
[76] - Quote
Sheldor Amouh wrote: Is every dowinload a lost sale? No but some pecentage. And item on the shelf is a false analogy because the person walking by the item doesnt take it home and keep it. A closer analogy along those lines is shop lifting, the difference being in shop lifting there is tangible loss to the marketer other than the loss of sale. Because there is no direct analogy in conventional direct sales is where the grey area term comes into play.
"Shoplifting" is a non-ideal analogy as well, because it is legitimately a lost sale for that merchant every. single. time.
Downloading a thing may or may not be a lost sale, and the issue I have with the stance of the *IAA groups is that they say "every download is a lost sale". Sure it makes for good support of their position (and rhetoric, and whatever), but it's about as true as saying every mining barge ganked is ganked by goons (grrr goons ). |

Pap Uhotih
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 12:51:00 -
[77] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: All true advice here. The real problem is not that fighting back is too hard/impossible but that a **** ton of people don't know WTF they are doing. Without someone telling you the right stuff, it's easy to get lost in the vastness of possibility the game has to offer.
Knowledge of the game will let you do lots of neat things even with the low SP level of a newbie. High SP with poor knowledge of the game will make you a big fat target.
I have never known fighting back to be an option. Typically situation I have seen is twenty man corp declaring war on a hundred man corp. If the members of the larger defending corp fight then irrelevant of skills or tactics it would be pretty hard to lose a battle (obviously winning every battle in a war in Eve doesn't win the war). That also means that unless the aggressor is a little dim they wont be floating about waiting to be slaughtered. Unfortunately that means that there is nothing for you to do - you have successfully arranged a corp wide op in which nothing happened - don't expect to be applauded for that. Conversely if you do not fight in an organised fashion and just go about your daily business then your corp is pecked at as and when the aggressor chooses.
Essentially if you organise your corp to fight in a high sec war all you are doing is asking them to log into Eve and do nothing. Skipping the Eve step entirely, playing on an alt or joining an alt corp provides far more rewarding gameplay than 'fighting' in a high sec war. Skills, tactics, fittings etc. are only useful for low and null roams, they are pointless in high sec as you will never need them as there will never be anyone to shoot at so long as you are prepared to shoot back.
That is my personal experience, I don't mean to say that my experience holds true for the entire universe but I can only share my experience. I don't think it abnormal to see a spike in inactive corp members after a war, the excitement is too much for some people.
I do and have posted before that it would make sense that both parties have assets in space so that there is always something to shoot at, also that additional fighting options should be available other than the seven days of nothing happening in the name of bloodshed and glory. Straight x vs x fleet fights would seem to be what aggressors actually want when they declare their random war, I don't see how it would game breaking to have that option as well. |

To Be Me
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
War makes players leave..
What about it now?
If you dont like the game its obvious you wont play.
Wtf is this non sense thread?
|

Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
586
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:13:00 -
[79] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Princess Bride wrote:Velicitia wrote:Wars are fine. The problem is the people who believe (wrongly) that they should be allowed to mine (or whatever) in complete peace and without any outside interaction (ganking, wars, whatever). Blaming customers for their expectations, and losing them as a result, is bad for business. If I was CCP, I would attempt to protect those players a bit more effectively than they currently are. CCP has always touted EVE as a dystopian universe ... nowhere in any of the ads or trailers (or news articles about "bad things" happening to people) have they even hinted at the possibility of being safe anywhere. *snip*
EvE is a GAME about a dystopian universe. CCP is a business. Part of being in business is attempting to attract, and retain, paying customers. Ads are about painting a picture for a potential customer to draw them in. It is not a contract, nor an all-inclusive description.
Money belonging to dumb people spends just as well as money belonging to smart people. Again, meeting customer expectations is part of being in business. Some of their customers want it one way, some want it another. Making both groups happy is the goal. |

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1337
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
Without War, we would have very little technology. I mean technology across the board, from medicine to space tech.
In this game, if things do not get blown-up, that breaks the circle of "life". You need to be able to build and you need to be able to destroy, the two are tied together.
War is Peace, Without war, there cannot be peace.
The War mechanics in EVE are not perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than they were just 2 years ago.
|

Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
587
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:23:00 -
[81] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:
In this game, if things do not get blown-up, that breaks the circle of "life". You need to be able to build and you need to be able to destroy, the two are tied together.
Fixed that for ya. The principle is viable in the real world, not just in EvE. Wars have been used to prop up real economics since the beginning of time and are still used for that today. |

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1337
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:26:00 -
[82] - Quote
Princess Bride wrote:Thorn Galen wrote:
In this game, if things do not get blown-up, that breaks the circle of "life". You need to be able to build and you need to be able to destroy, the two are tied together.
Fixed that for ya. The principle is viable in the real world, not just in EvE. Wars have been used to prop up real economics since the beginning of time and are still used for that today.
Yeah for sure, I was trying to set the focus on the Op's post though, referencing EVE.
|

Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1785
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:27:00 -
[83] - Quote
You make some good points here, but you're going about it wrong. You don't pull out all 100 of your dudes to fight 20 (well, you can, but they'll hide).
Here's what you (should) be doing when a war crops up:
1. no flying solo anywhere, excepting obvious things (scouts jump first). but otherwise look disorganized. 2. make your losses inexpensive (but still fit effectively) -- e.g. if a lot of your guys are goon in frigs/dessies, fly those (pilots "good" in cruisers/bc can act as heavy muscle). You can lose a lot more well-fit frigates for the same price as a poorly fit battleship 3. taking notes on who the "good" pilots are -- see if they wanna start being FCs.
Now, "being prepared for war" isn't something that should be done in the 24 hours leading up to a war, but it should be done all the time. Buying or building 30 frigates is a lot easier on resources over the course of 3 months than in 24 hours ... knowing some "generic" fits that will go onto a ship, so you can counter it (e.g. a rifter will have autocannons and an AB ... so use artillery, a long point, and kite him)... |

Mythrandier
Spacelane Salvage
150
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:34:00 -
[84] - Quote
Princess Bride wrote:
EvE is a GAME about a dystopian universe. CCP is a business. Part of being in business is attempting to attract, and retain, paying customers. Ads are about painting a picture for a potential customer to draw them in. It is not a contract, nor an all-inclusive description.
Money belonging to dumb people spends just as well as money belonging to smart people. Again, meeting customer expectations is part of being in business. Some of their customers want it one way, some want it another. Making both groups happy is the goal.
Which, would you say, is more important? Getting in new players or retaining the player base that has continued to grow year on year since release? Given how fickle most gamers are, I know where I would put my money if I were CEO of CCP.
Because the risk here is that if they try to make "EvE for the dumb" then the not-pants-on-head-******** existing player base will just leave. The player base that CCP has grown here is very niche and play this game simply because there is nothing out that comes close to the visceral, cold and harsh world that is EvE.
I, for one, do not want another WoW in space clone thank you so very much indeedy.
|

Clone Blank
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:35:00 -
[85] - Quote
What I see is people who have played the game a lot picking on people who are new or haven't got the money to buy the ships to fight back! So I think they should make it harder for them to do that they did it b4 but it isn't right ATM. Its pretty obvious....... |

Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
97
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:40:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mythrandier wrote: ...Large Hardon Collider.

|

Lugalbandak
Anunnaku Industrial Corp. Northern Associates.
245
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:44:00 -
[87] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:I used to play a pretty hardcore war game where you could get ganked and lose everything you built up over and over. You only had a few days after starting before you were a fair target for everyone (no NPC corp protection there). When you left the computer to get some sleep you could still be attacked. Months of work could be lost in one night while you were sleeping! And it would take months to get it all back. What... what game is this? Details, please, you got my hopes up and everything.
smells like a army browser game |

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
744
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:45:00 -
[88] - Quote
As always, the answer depends. It's a matter of perspective.
Our Alliance is always decced by a couple of other alliances. Our PVP oriented 'veterans' shrug, they are holed up in lowsec so all a wardec does is remove sentry gun mechanics. They can adopt a come at me bro stance because most wardeccing parties do not enter lowsec in the first place. To the newbie that has little experience, a war is likely more harrowing and can indeed be very frustrating, up to a point where undocking in hisec doesn't make any logical sense because the outcome is a known negative.
Pap Uhotih wrote:Essentially if you organise your corp to fight in a high sec war all you are doing is asking them to log into Eve and do nothing.
Pap Uhotih makes a good point. Act defensively when wardecced and the agressor will just keep docked, which is even more boring then going about your business as usual and get picked off. With some exeptions hisec wardeccers are usually risk averse vermin that specificly target newbies. My solution is to entice new corpmates to come fight with the wolves in lowsec (while getting some SRP because what we do actually matters to the corp) and let the hyenas in hisec go about their pointless goose chase. |

To Be Me
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:49:00 -
[89] - Quote
I still dont understand the point of this thread and what are you all talking about.
The game has wars, this is how the game is.
Now do you want to play it or not its up to you. You are welcome to leave if you want.
Whats the point of this thread? |

Arduemont
The State of War.
2330
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:52:00 -
[90] - Quote
The problem, I think, is not with the war declaration mechanic. It is with the expectations of player corporation's members and CEOs.
It should be made clear to everyone who starts or joins a corporation, that they need to be willing to defend it or that they need to ensure their CEO has measures in place to protect their members. Potential members should be asking what protocols are in place for war times and CEO's should be putting procedures in place. I think it's a matter of education. If every person who started a corp was told that they would need a way of defending themselves then they would either join another corp (there are already too many small 2 man corps) or would put serious effort into protection. Some times, it is as simple as a CEO having another director who is willing to take control during times of war or having a sister corporation willing to aid in protection and education. I have acted as that person/corp regularly and got fantastic results.
I have been on the attacking and defending side of wars, and they can be really boring, or they can be exciting and educational. It depends entirely on the corporation's management, and frankly potential CEOs need to be aware of that. What I do agree with, is that something needs to be done. It would be nice if defending corps were given some kind of assistance. |
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