If I'd gotten blown up actually fighting in an action under orders from my fleet command actually trying to achieve something then fine, that was (i thought) the point of the event. People accept they will lose ships, but don't expect to be led to throw them away.

I consider my ships to be in a prolonged, extremely-slow-motion state of exploding as soon as I undock with them.

Which still has nothing to do with the complete screw up of the event by CCP. The rage is NOT OVER DYING. We are going to say this again and again. It is over CCP not even giving most of the several thousand high sec players a chance to even get to the event before they called it over so they could go and drink and party with their friends upstairs.

CCP; How on earth were High sec meant to win when you call the event over when most of them are still in low sec even. Your Dev Blog is a blatant white wash, and rewriting history with outright lies. I was annoyed before over the mismanagement of the event. Now I'm actually angry because you are lying about the event.

the blog was structured to provide players with a legitimate line of reasoning excusing their choices.

the issue is they sided with hardware and digits over the state of their players, they prioritized their physical assets over their sentimental/intellectual ones and so harmed their players and themselves.

most will not understand that ccp has made the wrong choices and so will accept the blog's explanation as "oh well... they did try and had a reason.."

the issue is that for those of us who have done this before we know better, if they are continually let off for making these inadequate choices then they will continue to make them under the presumption that they will continue to work.

their line choice and reason/priority is a line of neglect not growth, and will not solve to the improvement of anything.

I kind of agree that they seem to be hiding behind a network of hardware and software excuses, but don't seem necessarily interested in solving those issues. As if those shortfalls aren't resolvable issues. I mean, if a player complains that he doesn't have the necessary tool because of a code issue, that's not the player's fault. When we're talking about the actual developers of the game saying, "We can't do this because of our software or hardware, so we work around the issue..." it does beg the question why they aren't throwing their shoulders into solving those issues.

That wouldn't really cause our FCs to scramble and try to reach the target. It'd be more like "Welp, seems like we got shafted by CCP gentlemen." with the decisions that followed mostly guided by how far off target are we. Shooting people is fun, but if things end before we can arrive we'll just go home and treat it as yet another case of 'blueballs'. Disappointing but it happens. It's not an R64 or a CSAA to rush to defend it at all costs - while the operation "let's punch CONCORD in their spacehorse" had people attend it, it wasn't strategic.

Titans cost ISK and risk to run, they have limited bridge range, require a fleet being in system so a mis-bridge would cost us fuel, time to return and reposition or time to burn. Does this sound like :effort:? It kind of is :effort:, unless people want to have fun at all cost the fleet will likely burn home.

Why burn home? Because the only really mobile bridging ship is a Black Ops. With short-lasting nearly undetectable cynos (can still get probed down) and costing only around a billion (or less if it's a basic pig fit) it can be dropped about to move a sneaky squad. A Titan costs... last killboard numbers put it at eighty times that + fittings, though I heard they went down a tad since then. To bridge a fleet back you'd need to deploy a safe tower, jump in a titan (without the fleet knowing - there may be real spies about), bridge the fleet back, jump back the titan. It costs fuel, stront, and is too damn risky.

People should, instead of relying on CCP to give them an easy taxi (yes, I get it, riding a Titan bridge rocks. They should let people experience it, the first time you do it it's awesome. They should also have a CCP Dev commit the most common Titan Pilot mistake. The wrong button, please do press it.) and weaken the defenders for them - start organizing themselves.

No titan? Get into a corporation that owns a Titan. CCP provides a Titan bridge? Good - get into a squad of your own folk, set up a doctrine, get some logis, maybe a booster. Get at least someone who knows his spaceships to call primaries, organize and move together. Learn. Don't ask to be spoonfed fun, go punch a bear and rip the fun out of his bloodied guts.

As full of chestbeating, dickwaving and overall "Hooga booga, we best, we best!" we are, getting an alliance fleet up and running and reliably using it to smack someone about isn't as easy as it sounds. Each thing that benefits the fleet and increases its chances of success is an investment - Titans and appropriate pilots for them need to be purchased/built. Everyone can FC in theory but in practice fleet FCs - especially good fleet FCs - are valuable assets.

Asking CCP to punish people who exert control over certain space because of their experience and gathered assets in this situation is an idea so bad it folds in on itself, becomes good and then plunges again to bad. It breaks the sandbox to create a themepark: "are you tall enough to ride THE TITAN?!".

Well, we can only encourage CCP to go on - admittedly, the staggering amount of whining in those threads doesn't help - and develop better events. Perhaps spark a massive relic hunt with rewards more than just discovering a small bit of lore. When it's about lore only, and empire one at that, a lot of people will just laugh and walk away unless there's an opportunity for a fight.

Now, think billions of ISK for those involved. When it's down to that, many would throw in more than just a shoddily fitted cheap T1 boat in to get the upper hand. You put meaningful rewards in and there can only be more betrayal and conflict. (Unless null crowd wins again. Then behold, more accusations of favoritism.)

It takes a man to understand and accept an apology from your eyes in the ground and you first reaching out for a handshake. That's because men know we are susceptible to mistakes and that's the way we want to apologize.

It takes a woman to look at you groveling in your knees with your head in the dirt to say: "I don't think your apologies are genuine. Kiss my feet if you mean them", That's because women are perfect and never make mistakes so they are not worried about apologizing .

Lots of womanlike folk in this thread. "Many of you grow a pair have to" says Yoda from a Galaxy far far away from New Eden.

Well, we can only encourage CCP to go on - admittedly, the staggering amount of whining in those threads doesn't help - and develop better events. Perhaps spark a massive relic hunt with rewards more than just discovering a small bit of lore. When it's about lore only, and empire one at that, a lot of people will just laugh and walk away unless there's an opportunity for a fight.

Now, think billions of ISK for those involved. When it's down to that, many would throw in more than just a shoddily fitted cheap T1 boat in to get the upper hand. You put meaningful rewards in and there can only be more betrayal and conflict. (Unless null crowd wins again. Then behold, more accusations of favoritism.)

Thankyou for sharing your opinions, Captain Misogyny!

just a thought, the event fed a bunch of us hi-sec folks to battle-hardened combat pilots en-masse which was basically a turkey shoot and I can't imagine it was really that much fun for the null-sec folks (where was the challenge?)

If they did this the other way around however with limited flow of null-sec fleets getting through to hi-sec to plunder an empire base *that* could be interesting, the advantage of the better pilot skills/ships of the null-seccers would be mitigated by the numbers of hi-sec folks waiting for them.

I'm not thinking of a way to feed null-secs into a grinding mill here, everything else I have previously said about random insert points etc (easily done with a worm-hole exit point whipping around in hi-sec. This would however give the hi-secs a chance to be organized and test the null-secs skills against much bigger fleets than usual. This would also spread combat across many systems to ease TiDi effects. Would make more sense in lore terms to, with capsuleer incursions into empire space.

With that you would essentially be telling people in whatever system to either join in or GTFO while the LE is in progress. Once you get Null Bloc entities into Hi-Sec (I'm not saying that they don't get in now) but imagine if you will -10's being granted a "safe time passage" to Hi-Sec and the carnage they could do if they ignored the LE Fleet\Objective and went on a rampage instead.

Just something to consider.

just trying to think of better ways to run these events that can include everyone but in a more balanced way

I'm new so have never seen these events before, however there has to be a better way to stage them as feeding hi-secs into null is going to result in lots and lots of dead hi-sec clones...even if you survived whats the chance of a hi-sec egetting back through null with a full cargo hold when the route is known in advance?

Makes it pointless for the hi-secs to join.

There also need to be other kinds of events, EVE isn't just about combat. A large part of the player base will be explorers/miners/industrials. These should be catered for too. Ghost sites will be like mini events from what I've seen but will be rare and you will need to be skilled/lucky to gain from them. This I think will benefit the already rich and skilled players far more. Events should be created for all levels of players to maintain balance.

The only ever LE I've made it to and IMHO the best thus far was the Sanctuary Image Contest. It ran for three weeks, you had a week to complete it and while the destinations were there for all to see people were smart, researched least active times and used intel to get in and get those pictures without dying. I got as far as week one due to IRL time constraints but it was awesome. Got a Zephr out of it for my efforts.

Corraidhin and Maximus.

I am pretty sure it is clear that when CCP do "bite size" events they can go really well.
it is the giant game-spanning events which involve thousands that have the potential (and often/always do) turn into Gigantic clusterfracks.

One lesson I hope is being learned is that trying to use the existing tools and trying to control thousands of disparate players with totally different expectations is just not going to end well.

Your Ideas (and mine) regarding breaking the events into small mini events hit the mark ,giving everyone a chance to do something, ie. mining manufacturing etc etc leading to a major final conflict, that CCP limit the numbers to either by players succeeding at the mini-events and earning a right of entry or the result of all of the mini-events deciding the size.

The other option is to run a week long event, that players enter and it concludes a week later, seperate from normal space running on separate equipment.
CCP creates a sandbox with separate rules and rewards to normal EvE and it is up to the players as to what they make of it.
player behavior will determine the result. And if it Fracks up tzhe players did it to themselves.
I posted thoughts earlier that give more details. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3878026#post3878026

CCP can do either or both of these but the live events as they stand, are just setting themselves up for disaster.

I don't think removing the Live Events from the sandbox into an arena is really in the spirit of why people want to do them. I agree that smaller scale multi-discipline events all culminating into some larger encompassing event that drives the lore would be a much better way to go and this could run over weeks\months in the build up.

I think they should really try this style before committing to another massive LE and perhaps see how many do attend each part and base the "projected attendance" of the culmination event off of this.

I really like the idea of multiple smaller events giving access to a final event based on previous success, means anyone can take part and those that prove their worth can get into the final area, with the greater rewards it brings...would give a much greater sense of achievement I think.

Large events should only be in response to player driven events like the one that made the news...though CCP would just love to recreate it they can't as it isn't possible to forcibly organize large groups of people. The massive battle that took place did so because two major combatants organized themselves...

regular events culminating in mid-scale fleet battles/research/explo would be much better for everyone and could run much more often