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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 942	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:48:00 - [1891] - Quote Onictus wrote: Kimmi Chan wrote: La Nariz wrote: Kimmi Chan wrote: La Nariz wrote: Can you put all that into a google doc of some sort for us? I hope this will suffice. Can't access it. My apologies. I had not shared it. Take two. You are running in VERY high sec space or with a character that doesn't have his social skill right.....and Anomaly, NEVER run Anomaly, its a HUGE waist of time. Was that just an hour running? 0.6 Sec Status - My social skills are not brilliant. SC 0 for example and Negotiation II Sheet 1 is the first 4 hours. Sheet 2 is the second 4 hours. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon [Member of The BrownCoat Syndicate]
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1524	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:50:00 - [1892] - Quote Onictus wrote: You are running in VERY high sec space or with a character that doesn't have his social skill right.....and Anomaly, NEVER run Anomaly, its a HUGE waist of time. Was that just an hour running? From the sheet it shows 231 minutes. So now that we have some information lets make a "gold standard" for testing here. Ideally: -SOE/Thukker/The highest LP/isk available, -0.5-0.6 space, decline lowsec missions, -Golem/Raven. Someone will have to come up with a list of missions to decline. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 2267	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:53:00 - [1893] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Someone will have to come up with a list of missions to decline. This is the part I am hoping someone can provide. I know of a few to decline (Massive Attack is an auto decline, for example), but I am far from experienced in the matter. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1524	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:53:00 - [1894] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: 0.6 Sec Status - My social skills are not brilliant. SC 0 for example and Negotiation II Sheet 1 is the first 4 hours. Sheet 2 is the second 4 hours. What is F19 on sheet 2? This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 780	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:54:00 - [1895] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: 0.6 Sec Status - My social skills are not brilliant. SC 0 for example and Negotiation II Sheet 1 is the first 4 hours. Sheet 2 is the second 4 hours. What I'm seeing there is 66% of anomoly income with a HAC or T2 fit battleship....despite an absolute crap mission spread (seriously the mission gods hate you) and VERY low LP income. Dread Pirate for example yields 9100-9200 LP for a 0.5 agent on a toon with maxed social skills. That ties it, and that is why I have a set of mission alts that I fill the wallet doing boring crap like siege fleets and POS shots.
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 942	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:54:00 - [1896] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Onictus wrote: You are running in VERY high sec space or with a character that doesn't have his social skill right.....and Anomaly, NEVER run Anomaly, its a HUGE waist of time. Was that just an hour running? From the sheet it shows 231 minutes. So now that we have some information lets make a "gold standard" for testing here. Ideally: -SOE/Thukker/The highest LP/isk available, -0.5-0.6 space, decline lowsec missions, -Golem/Raven. Someone will have to come up with a list of missions to decline. I think instead of doing 4 hour gigs I'm going to go with 2. Blitzing and pushing like this trying to get close to the numbers we're looking for makes this more like a job. Also, my plan is to use the different strategies you proposed (i.e. Do four different runs, blitzing and salvaging, full clear and salvaging, blitzing without salvaging, and full clear without salvaging) each day so tomorrow blitzing and salvaging, Monday full clear and salvage, etc. Will that still give us the data we need? "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon [Member of The BrownCoat Syndicate]
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 943	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:58:00 - [1897] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Kimmi Chan wrote: 0.6 Sec Status - My social skills are not brilliant. SC 0 for example and Negotiation II Sheet 1 is the first 4 hours. Sheet 2 is the second 4 hours. What is F19 on sheet 2? 1356 ISK/LP for Peace & Order Unit on ISK per LP store site. I did not want to waste any of my 4 hours buying stuff out of the LP Store, hauling it to Jita, waiting for it to sell, etc. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon [Member of The BrownCoat Syndicate]
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 2267	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:59:00 - [1898] - Quote Don't even bother with full clear without salvaging. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1524	Posted - 2014.02.02 00:59:00 - [1899] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: I think instead of doing 4 hour gigs I'm going to go with 2. Blitzing and pushing like this trying to get close to the numbers we're looking for makes this more like a job. Also, my plan is to use the different strategies you proposed (i.e. Do four different runs, blitzing and salvaging, full clear and salvaging, blitzing without salvaging, and full clear without salvaging) each day so tomorrow blitzing and salvaging, Monday full clear and salvage, etc. Will that still give us the data we need? Okay lets set up a protocol here because consistency is crucial. You don't have to do the tests consecutively. If there's a day or five between runs it isn't an issue as long as you follow a protocol that is shown to everyone. You're going to want at least three runs of each though. Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Don't even bother with full clear without salvaging. The quality of the scientist can be judged based on how they control for their experiments, we need a negative control and full clear without salvage provides that. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 943	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:00:00 - [1900] - Quote Onictus wrote: (seriously the mission gods hate you) This. All day, this. "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon [Member of The BrownCoat Syndicate]
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 781	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:00:00 - [1901] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: La Nariz wrote: Onictus wrote: You are running in VERY high sec space or with a character that doesn't have his social skill right.....and Anomaly, NEVER run Anomaly, its a HUGE waist of time. Was that just an hour running? From the sheet it shows 231 minutes. So now that we have some information lets make a "gold standard" for testing here. Ideally: -SOE/Thukker/The highest LP/isk available, -0.5-0.6 space, decline lowsec missions, -Golem/Raven. Someone will have to come up with a list of missions to decline. I think instead of doing 4 hour gigs I'm going to go with 2. Blitzing and pushing like this trying to get close to the numbers we're looking for makes this more like a job. Also, my plan is to use the different strategies you proposed (i.e. Do four different runs, blitzing and salvaging, full clear and salvaging, blitzing without salvaging, and full clear without salvaging) each day so tomorrow blitzing and salvaging, Monday full clear and salvage, etc. Will that still give us the data we need? I rarely salvage. About half of the time I contact big missions like AE and blockade to Pro Synergy, they give me half Some missions like Princess and GB I'll drop an MTU with an alt I usually carry an MTU on with the Golem and drop it right next to me and salvage whatever it hauls in while I'm sitting there (cruise missiles don't require a lot of attention, just make sure the launchers are running) Depending on how many characters I happen to be running at the time.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1524	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:03:00 - [1902] - Quote We need to agree on a fit, what missions to decline, a corporation and an agent. E: And a TZ for it to occur in. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 2267	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:04:00 - [1903] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Don't even bother with full clear without salvaging. The quality of the scientist can be judged based on how they control for their experiments, we need a negative control and full clear without salvage provides that. Certainly fair. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 2386	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:07:00 - [1904] - Quote i left the thread for like one day and it's turned into the highsec mission !!SCIENCE!! thread
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 3866	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:07:00 - [1905] - Quote Not exactly setting this up as an average player, are you people? Then again maybe that's the point, useless for anything other than comparing ideal situations. I presume you will set the same standard of perfection for the null side of this equation. Right? Apples to apples and all that. I nominate Infinity for the null runs. Even though he has already shown what the ideal null runner pulls in. It's only fair to do it again so you have the same baseline. I'd actually be interested in seeing how that pans out. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 781	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:09:00 - [1906] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Not exactly setting this up as an average player, are you people? Then again maybe that's the point, useless for anything other than comparing ideal situations. I presume you will set the same standard of perfection for the null side of this equation. Right? Apples to apples and all that. I nominate Infinity for the null runs. Even though he has already shown what the ideal null runner pulls in. It's only fair to do it again so you have the same baseline. I'd actually be interested in seeing how that pans out. Mr Epeen What is the average mission runner? My hi sec account started as a cyno alt. Its about a year old and sitting in a Golem, not what I would call "ideal" and that would be this toon with my Machariel burning down the world, that thing roars through missions. Could also take that Mach load some 1400s on and go play with the incursion crews, that makes pretty much anything solo look like chump change.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1525	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:10:00 - [1907] - Quote Onictus wrote: La Nariz wrote: Someone will have to come up with a list of missions to decline. Anomaly Massive Attack After that its a judgement call. That storyline may be a shipyard, and that is a MINIMUM 25mil reward for not a lot of work. Likewise if you give no fucks about standings, tag missions (smash the supplier and whatnot) yield 20-30mil in tags.....but most skip them outside of dedicated single empire runners. Okay so we have a start then, decline anomaly and massive attack. How about something more controversial like fit for a golem/eagle/raven? This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 781	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:12:00 - [1908] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Onictus wrote: La Nariz wrote: Someone will have to come up with a list of missions to decline. Anomaly Massive Attack After that its a judgement call. That storyline may be a shipyard, and that is a MINIMUM 25mil reward for not a lot of work. Likewise if you give no fucks about standings, tag missions (smash the supplier and whatnot) yield 20-30mil in tags.....but most skip them outside of dedicated single empire runners. Okay so we have a start then, decline anomaly and massive attack. How about something more controversial like fit for a golem/eagle/raven? Just a moment let me fire up ze fitter, I JUST went though that exact progression, so I have them saved.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1525	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:13:00 - [1909] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Not exactly setting this up as an average player, are you people? Then again maybe that's the point, useless for anything other than comparing ideal situations. I presume you will set the same standard of perfection for the null side of this equation. Right? Apples to apples and all that. I nominate Infinity for the null runs. Even though he has already shown what the ideal null runner pulls in. It's only fair to do it again so you have the same baseline. I'd actually be interested in seeing how that pans out. Mr Highsec Pubbie Its far more than anything you've done and by doing the most min/max approach if the max doesn't approach nullsec level income its a non-issue and people like myself who form our opinions based on data/facts will be quiet. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 3866	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:13:00 - [1910] - Quote Onictus wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Not exactly setting this up as an average player, are you people? Then again maybe that's the point, useless for anything other than comparing ideal situations. I presume you will set the same standard of perfection for the null side of this equation. Right? Apples to apples and all that. I nominate Infinity for the null runs. Even though he has already shown what the ideal null runner pulls in. It's only fair to do it again so you have the same baseline. I'd actually be interested in seeing how that pans out. Mr Epeen What is the average mission runner? My hi sec account started as a cyno alt. Its about a year old and sitting in a Golem, not what I would call "ideal" and that would be this toon with my Machariel burning down the world, that thing roars through missions. Could also take that Mach load some 1400s on and go play with the incursion crews, that makes pretty much anything solo look like chump change. Kimmi Chan, you look really tired. Like some ugly bald guy. Get some rest girl! Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 781	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:16:00 - [1911] - Quote [Golem, PvE] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Large Micro Jump Drive Large Shield Booster II 'Stalwart' Particle Field Magnifier Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field Sensor Booster II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Bastion Module I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II That is the ship my alt is sitting in right now to the module the SeBo can be swapped for painters, extenders, afterburner or whatever, it tanks over 1000DPS OMNI with a pair of invulns and a specific (EM or Therm) for about 5 minutes. you can push that to about 1500DPS with specific tank, a pith-c medium and a faction boost amp
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 3867	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:17:00 - [1912] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Not exactly setting this up as an average player, are you people? Then again maybe that's the point, useless for anything other than comparing ideal situations. I presume you will set the same standard of perfection for the null side of this equation. Right? Apples to apples and all that. I nominate Infinity for the null runs. Even though he has already shown what the ideal null runner pulls in. It's only fair to do it again so you have the same baseline. I'd actually be interested in seeing how that pans out. Mr Highsec Pubbie Its far more than anything you've done and by doing the most min/max approach if the max doesn't approach nullsec level income its a non-issue and people like myself who form our opinions based on data/facts will be quiet. Fair enough. But I'd still like to see a legit comparison. That info would come in really handy for you forum warriors that seem to care about actually running missions and stuff for the piddly amount of Iskies you get compared to any of the high paying professions. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 781	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:19:00 - [1913] - Quote [Raven Navy Issue, T2] Co-Processor II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II X-Large Shield Booster II Sensor Booster II Kinetic Deflection Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Large Micro Jump Drive Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II CNR (for the battleship V deficient) Basic T2 fit, can tank anything in any mission between range and the cap booster. You can also swap the cap booster for a SeBo but it becomes problematic on a number of Guiista missions because you can't outrange the *******.
stoicfaux 3996	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:21:00 - [1914] - Quote Also... If "everyone" is making 100+M isk running level 4s in high sec, then no one is making 100+M isk running level 4s in high sec. The vast majority of that 100+M is in the form of LP. If everyone is blitzing for LP then the value of LP goes down. In my level 3 ishtar example, the breakdown was: Bounties: 9.4% Rewards: 20.1% LP: 67.2% (@ 2,000 isk/lp) Salvage: 0.0% Loot: 2.4% Never mind the "losses" you incur in the form of market taxes, time to convert LP, freight costs (if you get your tags shipped,) etc.. My very old Mach spreadsheets (pre-TE nerf) for Level 4s showed 69% in LP. As I understand it, in null-sec, you tend to get more liquid isk, which is probably why null-sec is such a tremendous isk faucet. WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 781	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:22:00 - [1915] - Quote [Raven, raven] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Large Micro Jump Drive Kinetic Deflection Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Shield Boost Amplifier I X-Large Shield Booster II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Base Raven blue print. Again, cap booster is replaceable.....I like having it because the vanilla Raven has a paper tank on its best day.
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1525	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:23:00 - [1916] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Fair enough. But I'd still like to see a legit comparison. That info would come in really handy for you forum warriors that seem to care about actually running missions and stuff for the piddly amount of Iskies you get compared to any of the high paying professions. Mr Highsec Pubbie Explain how min/maxing isn't a legit comparison. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Onictus Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension 781	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:26:00 - [1917] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: As I understand it, in null-sec, you tend to get more liquid isk, which is probably why null-sec is such a tremendous isk faucet. Its only liquid isk for the most part. Short of going on a rated site binge, but that ALSO has issues with freight....and it takes me a LOT longer to sneak a ship to empire than it takes your average mission runner to get to the nearest market hub.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 3867	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:28:00 - [1918] - Quote La Nariz wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Fair enough. But I'd still like to see a legit comparison. That info would come in really handy for you forum warriors that seem to care about actually running missions and stuff for the piddly amount of Iskies you get compared to any of the high paying professions. Mr Highsec Pubbie Explain how min/maxing isn't a legit comparison. Explain how arguing over nickels when everyone else is sitting on hundred dollar bills makes any sense. I said I'd be interested in seeing a maxed runner in high sec compared to a maxed runner in null sec. And I would be. Are you trying to argue that I don't want to see that? You need to ease up on the energy drinks, bud. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
La Nariz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1525	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:31:00 - [1919] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Explain how arguing over nickels when everyone else is sitting on hundred dollar bills makes any sense. I said I'd be interested in seeing a maxed runner in high sec compared to a maxed runner in null sec. And I would be. Are you trying to argue that I don't want to see that? You need to ease up on the energy drinks, bud. Mr Highsec Pubbie No I'm calling you out on saying that measuring two min/maxing analogous incomes, anomalies vs missions, isn't comparing "apples to apples." Since you didn't offer a defense I assume you're being a moron. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Tauranon Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 682	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:32:00 - [1920] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: Missions completed and Rewards and Time Bonus Unauthorized Military Presence - 538000 - 633000 Intercept the Saboteurs - 739000 - 700000 Attack of the Drones -910000 -729000 Massive Attack - 717000 - 712000 Duo of Death (DECLINED) - NA - NA Attack of the Drones -663000 -730000 Worlds Collide (NO HACKER CARD) - 1390000 - 1600000 Intercept the Saboteurs - 662000 - 610000 Gone Berserk - 730000 - 1080000 Pirate Invasion - 872000 - 625000 Rogue Slave Trader 1 of 2 - 316000 - 297000 Rogue Slave Trader 2 of 2 - 616000 - 729000 Stop the Thief - 525000 - 577000 Dread Pirate Scarlet (No Gate Key) - 1450000 - 1710000 Unauthorized Military Presence - 693000 - 612000 Time spent in each mission Unauthorized Military Presence - 18 Intercept the Saboteurs - 21 Attack of the Drones - 17 Massive Attack - 26 Duo of Death (DECLINED) - 0 Attack of the Drones - 10 Worlds Collide (NO HACKER CARD) - 32 Intercept the Saboteurs - 18 Gone Berserk - 11 Pirate Invasion - 25 Rogue Slave Trader 1 of 2- 8 Rogue Slave Trader 2 of 2 - 9 Stop the Thief - 7 Dread Pirate Scarlet (No Gate Key) - 26 Unauthorized Military Presence - 12 Sorry for the spacing. :/ comparison times are dock - dock - which picks up the typical distance my agent sends me. serp/gur worlds collide - me - dominix - 3 pockets - 25 minutes (INCLUDING 2 JUMPS) serp/gur worlds collide - me - kronos + card - 19 minutes (INCLUDING 2 JUMPS) angel unauthorized military presence - me - navy mega - 10 minutes (INCLUDING 2 JUMPS). dread pirate scarlet, me - dominix - 25 minutes (INCLUDING 4 JUMPS + LOOT 9.5m IMPLANT). angel pirate invasion - me - dominix - 17 minutes (no jumps) drones attack of drones - me dominix - 14 minutes (INCLUDING 2 JUMPS) sansha rogue slave - reject Note - you are 50% faster at unauthorized military presence the second time. ie your sample both includes really poor performances by you and plainly you are still learning encounters, and YOU ARE STILL SLOWER THAN A DOMINIX. I would have been 30 minutes ahead of you at the conclusion of that set of missions (and probably more because your times probably don't include jumps). Whether you are in null or in high, sucking at fitting and flying spaceships is the same.

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