yup, sounds about right, everytime I hear someone saying 50 - 90 mill/hr I just wanna hit him in the head with a frying pan, thats calculating that you're getting over 2-2.5k+ lp/isk each time, that you have a salvage alt and are somehow getting the best missions and blitzing through them like butter.

For SOE missions, the claimed payout is much higher than 90 mil/hr. Just FYI (read my post above).

If I exchanged my LP for the highest SOE rate (Sisters Core Scanner Probe) my total ISK/hr goes from 29,032,636.00 to 37,441,718.00

In any case, these numbers that are being thrown out here (90/hr, 120/hr, 150/hr, 180/hr for running missions in hi sec) seem to be way inflated and exaggerated.

I just wanted to comment on Kimmi Chan's work. And it most certainly qualifies as a body of work. And in a scientific sense. You put a question into a testable framework and then performed experiments on that and produced verifiable results. I see other posters questioning that, attacking it, but not in any verifiable way. You've produced results that are 'falsifiable'. We can prove whether they are false or true.


The attacks on your results tend to be 'non falsifiable'. We don't have a way to test them. 'I'm sure I could do better' is not the same as actually having done comparable work so that we have a set of results from a similar experiment.

Basically I'm saying that you've done extremely good work here, Kimmi Chan, and saying one reason why it's so good.

Baltec aside, my assertion has been between 60 and 90 in highsec, which I maintain is still quite easily doable.

I would also like to point out that Kimmi is basically not salvaging, and seemingly not using an MTU. Which would take a fairly hefty cut off the total.

Heck, even going to the correct corporation was a 28% increase in her profits by itself. I suspect that she can hit 60 with ease once we've streamlined her process and/or fit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic claim to justify the nerfing of Highsec is that Highsec mission runners can earn 90+mill ISK per hour in relative safety. However, as Kimmi's initial data has shown, that is a long way from being factually accurate. Now, is it possible to achieve ISK/hour values of those claimed? Certainly, if you have a perfectly fit ship, excellent tactics, near perfect skills and ideal conditions.

One of the posters argued that Kimmi was 'doing it wrong' and therefore having a lower ISK/hour ratio than is possible. Well, that's rather the point isn't it? There may be a few dedicated Highsec mission runners making large amounts of space money, but from my own experience most Highsec mission runners don't have their fit perfectly tuned, or have maxed skills, or even use the optimal tactics; they do it largely for fun.

If SoE LP are overvalued, assuming that they are awarded in the same abundance as LP from other sources (assuming parity between sec status and level of agent), then that's not the fault of the players running SoE missions, but of the nature of the market itself. Inflation, market trends and other economic factors are controlled by players and are just as much a part of the 'emergent gameplay' as scanning down miners and mission runners and ganking them.

As for claims of Highsec missions being as ISK faucet, I would also argue that they are also an ISK sink. This is partly due to ship losses from botching a mission (very common with newer players who assume a faction battleship will ensure easy victory), or more often from the ganking community who proudly state that they make their ISK from scams/ganks/ransoms. I don't have the data to back this statement up, nor to identify the exact number of ISK being generated and lost by Highsec missioners, so this is simply my anecdotal opinion based on my limited firsthand observations.

You're right, I should have said 180 mil .

Troll.

Baltec aside, my assertion has been between 60 and 90 in highsec, which I maintain is still quite easily doable.

I would also like to point out that Kimmi is basically not salvaging, and seemingly not using an MTU. Which would take a fairly hefty cut off the total.

Heck, even going to the correct corporation was a 28% increase in her profits by itself. I suspect that she can hit 60 with ease once we've streamlined her process and/or fit.

I see you ignored the first part where I stated what the norm is.

And I see you ignored the part where you stated 180 mil is easily doable.

And I see you ignored the part where you stated 180 mil is easily doable.

And I see you ignored the part where you stated 180 mil is easily doable. You know, I expect you guys to start back-peddling once actual numbers are revealed. I'd be surprised if you didn't.

Once again, your lies of omission are hilarious.

150mil/hr was the incursion figure.

Merely swapping which corp's LP Kimmi was using increased her isk/hr by 28%. And as has been discussed, she certainly has room for improvement.

Specifically, her Security Connections skill, which her initial post did not mention was being taken into account.

Except as has been pointed out & proven, that number is not a sustainable figure for incursion runners. That is a best case figure totally ignoring any wait time for fleet to form & any wait time for you to get in fleet.
So..... Yet again, you are taking the best case figures for high sec, while ignoring the 500/hr Null figures which are the best case scenario's. Since people have achieved that kind of ratio obviously it can be taken as a correct figure using the argument being applied to high sec where you want to take the best case achieved by any single person on any mission and apply that as a blanket 'everyone will get these times'. Without even knowing their true fit or if they used alts/OGB's or anything like that.

It is.

But its not the norm.

Please tell us what gives half a billion isk an hour in null.

Passive income is better than active income. A single Titan is worth upwards of 30b+ in profits, and only takes 40 days to produce.

HTFU

Because every line member can build these and sell them to everyone...

If it's easily achievable as you say, why wouldn't I be able to use your own figure to measure results against? Is 180 not sustainable?

By the way, your "norm" of 100 - 120 is still way inflated. I'll run some numbers this week to see how actual figures fare against these numbers.

I posted my EveBoard profile earlier in the thread.

I've also estimated roughly how much more I would have made doing SOE with SC V. Though I have not posted it. Posting it now:

35546 LP * 1.5 (SC V) * 2301 (ISK/LP) = 122,852,691

(67,865,081 + 122,852,691)/4 = 47,679,443 ISK/hr

ED: The LP is based on an estimate of earned LP * 1.5 for the SC V. This may not be entirely accurate but is the best I can do without training the skill up to V and going about this again to generate additional data. This is not outside the realm of feasibility but not at this time.

No you wont. Your bias will kick in and you will half heartedly try at best and then bounce around saying look I told you ect and then ignore people pointing out why you did so badly. Its the same thing we faced when we pointed out both the FW and pre nerf incursion income levels.

If null sec offers more income than high then why are most of null players earning isk in high sec? Why did just about all of the bots move to high sec to run missions which need more complicated bot programes?

Dont you think the people with a reputation for manipulating every source of income to the highest levels possible no matter the risk or effort eould be in their own sov null space if it was better rater than grinding missions in high sec?

The fix is so easy too, just stop mission blitzing. Boom, anoms are back in and the casual gamer everyone uses to stop any nerfs wont even notice.

I see. So if I meet your number then all is good. If I don't, it's because I'm biased. Since we have already predetermined the outcome, no need to try.

I see. So if I meet your number then all is good. If I don't, it's because I'm biased. Since we have already predetermined the outcome, no need to try.

48 mil/hr? That's looking a bit better, I knew there was something deeply wrong with that first figure.