Suggesting that miners need to be 'rehabilitated' implies there is something wrong with them. You've already gotten off on the wrong foot. That being said, Aliances should go for it because of the significant savings they would realize. Not just ISK either, but time.

I've always thought it would be very cool to have a new trade hub in Eve, one situated in Null. It's completely possible. People like deals. People need stuff. People love to gets stuff they need at a deal. What if there were a half dozen or even a couple dozen industrialists based in Null, in a system cluster with a relatively straight shot into highsec? What if these industrialists were pumping out quality goods via the NPC stations in the area at prices lower than the otehr trade hubs? This would be a draw to those looking for great deals. What if there were buy orders at these stations paying more than what people could get in highsec? Another draw.

But even better, what if there was an Alliance that was willing to invest the effort to protect the route into Highsec, and offer some protection to the industrialists as they go about their work? This Alliance would make bank on taxes, rent, and if they were smart, special discounts on the good produced by the industrialists. How cool would it be to see a titan protecting certain sections of the route into and out of this new trade hub?!

At a certain point, inertia would take over and the process could be sustained. Pirates would be punished for preying on those travelling to and from this new hub by the people invested in the trade hub's success. More and more highsec people would be tempted to move out to take advantage of the good deals and unique opportunities in Null. There would be wardec's popping all over as this or that group tries to take over the cash cow trade hub.

It's completely possible. Not easy, but possible.

Suggesting that miners need to be 'rehabilitated' implies there is something wrong with them. You've already gotten off on the wrong foot. That being said, Aliances should go for it because of the significant savings they would realize. Not just ISK either, but time.

I've always thought it would be very cool to have a new trade hub in Eve, one situated in Null. It's completely possible. People like deals. People need stuff. People love to gets stuff they need at a deal. What if there were a half dozen or even a couple dozen industrialists based in Null, in a system cluster with a relatively straight shot into highsec? What if these industrialists were pumping out quality goods via the NPC stations in the area at prices lower than the otehr trade hubs? This would be a draw to those looking for great deals. What if there were buy orders at these stations paying more than what people could get in highsec? Another draw.

But even better, what if there was an Alliance that was willing to invest the effort to protect the route into Highsec, and offer some protection to the industrialists as they go about their work? This Alliance would make bank on taxes, rent, and if they were smart, special discounts on the good produced by the industrialists. How cool would it be to see a titan protecting certain sections of the route into and out of this new trade hub?!

At a certain point, inertia would take over and the process could be sustained. Pirates would be punished for preying on those travelling to and from this new hub by the people invested in the trade hub's success. More and more highsec people would be tempted to move out to take advantage of the good deals and unique opportunities in Null. There would be wardec's popping all over as this or that group tries to take over the cash cow trade hub.

It's completely possible. Not easy, but possible.

That being said, Aliances should go for it because of the significant savings they would realize. Not just ISK either, but time.

What other sources of raw ISK in game are there except for NPC Mission Rewards? What I mean to say is where does all the ISK enter the economic system from?

Its not possible at all right now.

You keep saying that, but I really don't think you've thought it through.

Even if they got the minerals in nullsec, they still have to be transported back, refined, made into something, then the something is brought back to nullsec.

And you're trying to tell me that is *easier* than just saying screw it, and buying the stuff up front? I mean, the big alliances already have procurement divisions and such. They already have people dedicated to getting the stuff they need.

What do you actually offer?

Like I said, you can't say "save money", because of the huge opportunity cost of both protecting you, and of transporting your product back to highsec to be refined.

Why not? Are you saying Goon's couldn't make it happen? I though they were the biggest Alliance in Eve? Why couldn't it happen 'right now'?

My understanding of the refining issue (and I agree with the rest who say this should be buffed for Null) is that it's not "as efficient" to refine in Null. With Alliance protection, in many ways, miners would be *more* likely to survive than in highsec. Gankers don't look for fair fights, and knowing there is a squad of fighters only a few seconds away will deter almost all gankers.
What this means is that miners can start to bring out their 'big guns' and mine the crap outta asteroids in Null.

It would be cheaper to mine an extra 10% ore in Null than to try to import it.

And would be met by another fist in the form of the Alliance protecting miners. Hey! PvP!

The miners aren't there to be bait. They are there to help supply Nul with the ore it needs to produce goods of value to the Alliance and the universe at large. That PvP happens is (to a PvP enthusiast) is simply a bonus. It would also give the Alliance something else to do, which could drive recruitment.

This is all about trying to draw more people out of highsec. Unless it's more advantageous, people won't bother.

Pretty tough for new players running around in T1 frigates getting popped by faction, and interceptors piloted by veterans with a massive SP advantage.

The miners aren't there to be bait. They are there to help supply Nul with the ore it needs to produce goods of value to the Alliance and the universe at large. That PvP happens is (to a PvP enthusiast) is simply a bonus. It would also give the Alliance something else to do, which could drive recruitment.

This is all about trying to draw more people out of highsec. Unless it's more advantageous, people won't bother.

See, I don't buy the old line that everyone in high sec is getting ganked or dying to rats. I spend very little time up there these days, but I'm willing to wager there is still a good amount of straight-forward PvP going on up there in one form or another. The problem with this high sec PvP is that it is likely, for the most part, fragmented, blobish, poorly coordinated ***hattery. I don't know any high sec corps that take doctrines and fits and losses particularly seriously, and this leads to a culture of second-rate action and general fail.

No Hisec = I quit..

Biomass all 12 characters with ALL ISK and Valuables....

Why not? Are you saying Goon's couldn't make it happen? I though they were the biggest Alliance in Eve? Why couldn't it happen 'right now'?

High sec is already nerfed. Consider:

You cannot build capitals
You cannot fly capitals (exception: a few legacy ships that are little more than for showing off)
You cannot claim sovereignty
You cannot build outposts
All lab slots in stations are booked up for a month
To shoot someone you got to deal with either the war dec mechanic or CONCORD
Missions do not pay as well
Incursions do not pay as well
PI does not pay as well
There are no L5 missions
There are no complexes above 4/10
There is no ore that produces Morphite or Megacyte. And Zydrene is quite rare.
There are no high end Ices to mine
There is little gas to mine and it all stinks
You cannot anchor a POS without grinding standings
There is no moon mining
You cannot run reactions
A data or relic site that produces more than a couple of million ISK worth is a Jackpot
There are no Officer drops
There are no faction drops for sizes above "Small"
SoE ships cost 50% more LP

Yet HS is the best option for manufacturing / research / invention and having a relativity risk free good stable isk earning base.

has it occurred to you that a huge part of the reason for this is simply location?

highsec is centrally located.

logistically, it makes sense for a trade hub to be in the middle of the map. and from that, it follows that if you are trying to manufacture a lot of goods and move them, that you would try to do it near the middle of the map.

it's not like manufacturing is particularly risky, even in nullsec. it's something you do at a station primarily, with a POS to help with copy/invention slots. if you have sov - you probably don't even need a POS as outposts have a metric gazillion slots.

so yeah, people do manufacturing/research/invention in highsec, but it's not because highsec is "overpowered" - beyond the power of just being in the middle of the map.

This has nothing to do with location. He's talking about industry, not trade hubs.

Nobody is complaining about risk, the issue is that we have to put in a ton of effort in order to make industry even somewhat decent.

He specifically mentioned risk - which I quoted when I responded to him.

Yes, and we all know industry and trade have nothing in common.

They have so little in common in fact, that on my Industry alt I manufacture my goods 75 jumps away from where I buy the materials and sell the end result. Just because.

Oh wait, that would be ********, so I don't do that. Instead, I manufacture close to the trade hubs to reduce the amount of time I spend doing industry.

Complex stuff.

HS does not have enough slots. I know because I keep running out of them, and my HS industrial base is over a dozen jumps from Jita. There is not even a trade hub of any sort in my region.

As for risk, remember the OP asked what CCP was going to do. CCP controls game mechanics. Risk is not an inherent game mechanic, its a property produced by emergent behavior of the players. If the players decided to stop shooting in Null it would be totally risk free for industry without CCP doing a thing.

P.S. I do think Null needs to be able to build more slots. Mining in Null, hauling to high to build, then hauling back to Null just seems wrong.