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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |

Kyperion
119
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:21:00 -
[181] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Kyperion wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:It's unbelievable the superiority complex some of you have. I've been paying for playing Eve for almost 10 years as a casual carebear through thick and thin. But don't let that stop you from telling me how little "devotion" and "care" I have for this game. What is the casual carebear doing other than hoovering up resources and ISK other players might use to fund warfare, in a war game. Then doing nothing with it other than show off, fit ludicrous ships, tell everyone how awesome they are or fund their extortion of other players on the market. Fair enough, some want to play a friendly, co-operative game with like minded people. It's lunacy for them to label everyone else as murdering sociopaths simply because they actually want to fire their weapons against non-NPCs. Particularly as it takes a hell of a lot of trust and co-operation to run successful pvp corps in the first place. Perhaps we should consider farmers as the capitalist pig overlords vs the socialist freedom fighter rebels to get a better idea of why the styles of gameplay are so diametrically opposed. At least the blobbers get SRP, even if that entails being a serf. Farmers are literally leeching ISK from everyone else, and throw a huge tantrum when people point out that they aren't spending it on anything worthwhile anyway. Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I am not a banker, I am not smirking nor claiming ethical superiority. I am going to strip people off their money fair and square like I have always done, and if they don't like it, they can kiss my butt cheeks.  Auditors, accountants and stock brokers are equally vile. Actually, we all are when we participate in an exploitative loop. Hence Engel's remarks , which you should really start paying attention to when you simultaneously prance about how much money you are making via rl trading vs your 'charitable endeavours'. " placing yourselves before the world as mighty benefactors of humanity when you give back to the plundered victims the hundredth part of what belongs to them"  You do realize that Socialism/Communism is responsible for killing more innocent people in the 20th century than the ***** right? Where in space are you, you ******* communist pig? I think you may be mixing up economic distribution and welfare systems with the actions of nation states that happen to make use of those systems. A similar mistake can be made with the actions of the USA and capitalism.
Nope, despite all its flaws, the United States of America cannot be assailed as a detriment to mankind... Socialism/Communism have only ever bred poverty, despair, and War.
Nothing is more contemptable than your modern day yuppie progressive big government closet Communist... They ******* preach and yap about the evils of Capitalism and free markets, while playing angry birds on the achievements of Capitalists and businessmen. Without Capitalism and free markets, there would be no video game industry, there would be no hollywood, there would be no mass home ownership. These ******* idiots and their Che shirts need to be ***** slapped into the ground whenever they rear their ugly, 'I want free stuff' heads. Recommended reading: "The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich von Hayek |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
493
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:40:00 -
[182] - Quote
lol ... U americans and your politics are cray cray |

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3927
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 05:43:00 -
[183] - Quote
This thread got interesting at first, now it's just gonna be a political cesspool I guess. |

Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
633
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 05:43:00 -
[184] - Quote
whatever
missions belong to recycle bin anyways. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2405
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 05:45:00 -
[185] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:This thread got interesting at first, now it's just gonna be a political cesspool I guess.
Typical tactics. Null sec cartel propagandists want the thread closed, so they hotdrop their thread derailers. ISD locking thread in 3....2....1. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20172
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 05:53:00 -
[186] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Typical tactics. Null sec cartel propagandists want the thread closed, so they hotdrop their thread derailers. How do you derail a thread that was nonsensical from the very start? And how is it done by a group that doesn't even exist? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Kaivar Lancer
Garoun Investment Bank
449
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:56:00 -
[187] - Quote
This would be a nerf for ratters. Not that I mind. The big $$$ is in the meta 4 stuff, but now the junk will really be junk. |

Muestereate
Minions LLC
197
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:59:00 -
[188] - Quote
DOes this make nullbear goon ratting suck as bad as the drone regions? |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
493
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 06:00:00 -
[189] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:This would be a nerf for ratters. Not that I mind. The big $$$ is in the meta 4 stuff, but now the junk will really be junk.
Most serious ratters are like mission runners and either blitz completely or cherry pick the high value loot and leave the rest for the ninjas.
Cherry picking loot has become even easier if you are game to use an MTU as you no longer need to cargo scan wrecks, just pull them all in, scoop the MTU, sort the can by value, and just take anything worth more than half a mill and dump the rest. |

Kyperion
119
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Posted - 2014.03.21 06:06:00 -
[190] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:This would be a nerf for ratters. Not that I mind. The big $$$ is in the meta 4 stuff, but now the junk will really be junk. Most serious ratters are like mission runners and either blitz completely or cherry pick the high value loot and leave the rest for the ninjas. Cherry picking loot has become even easier if you are game to use an MTU as you no longer need to cargo scan wrecks, just pull them all in, scoop the MTU, sort the can by value, and just take anything worth more than half a mill and dump the rest.
I wonder if they will eventually add a deployable salvager with similar functionality.
I have no idea how they could do it, or what it would look like but it would be nice if they refined the Salvage 'career' a little bit... give Marauders even more of a niche. Not that marauders aren't particularly useful, just think that tractor bonus is REALLY dated now. |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10329
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 06:06:00 -
[191] - Quote
I'm not happy about this nerf because I do mineral compression to support our supercapital builders. But I accept that mineral compression has needed a nerf and I've personally advocated for such a nerf in the past, so I'm ultimately fine with it.
Hisec babbies that wail about every little change that affects their horribly suboptimal mission running are literally the least affected by this change Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |

Kyperion
119
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 06:12:00 -
[192] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:This would be a nerf for ratters. Not that I mind. The big $$$ is in the meta 4 stuff, but now the junk will really be junk. Most serious ratters are like mission runners and either blitz completely or cherry pick the high value loot and leave the rest for the ninjas. Cherry picking loot has become even easier if you are game to use an MTU as you no longer need to cargo scan wrecks, just pull them all in, scoop the MTU, sort the can by value, and just take anything worth more than half a mill and dump the rest. I wonder if they will eventually add a deployable salvager with similar functionality. I have no idea how they could do it, or what it would look like but it would be nice if they refined the Salvage 'career' a little bit... give Marauders even more of a niche. Not that marauders aren't particularly useful, just think that tractor bonus is REALLY dated now.
Maybe reduce the extra high slots by 1 or 2, and then add something like "Ammunition Reprocessor module" where you could take salvage/loot and directly churn it into ammunition, dunno what the paladin would do though.
OR..... you could have the Matar go full rustbucket kitchen sink, and be able to directly load salvage/loot into their cannons to shoot at people. (Pirates of the Carribean anyone?) |

Marsha Mallow
144
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Posted - 2014.03.21 06:13:00 -
[193] - Quote
Calm down. I was ribbing VV, not you.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Null sec cartel propagandists want the thread closed, so they hotdrop their thread derailers. Kicking and squealing Gucci little piggy I just hotdrop when I have assigments to do. Sorry. Don't see why I should suffer on my own. :Sociopath: - |

Lugia3
Emerald Inc. Easily Excited
888
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Posted - 2014.03.21 06:26:00 -
[194] - Quote
Drink it in, guys. We've got 'bear tears here. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |

Kyperion
119
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Posted - 2014.03.21 06:27:00 -
[195] - Quote
Andski wrote:I'm not happy about this nerf because I do mineral compression to support our supercapital builders. But I accept that mineral compression has needed a nerf and I've personally advocated for such a nerf in the past, so I'm ultimately fine with it.
Hisec babbies that wail about every little change that affects their horribly suboptimal mission running are literally the least affected by this change
The only reason you 'accept' this is because you know it won't really be more than an slight inconvienence to you.... To a mission runner with a certain playstyle this essentially means the end of his/her playstyle. Which is not inherently a bad deal, I don't think this will make a huge impact on missioning as a whole, most of the good income for me has come from selling meta modules and LP. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3264
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 06:43:00 -
[196] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Andski wrote:I'm not happy about this nerf because I do mineral compression to support our supercapital builders. But I accept that mineral compression has needed a nerf and I've personally advocated for such a nerf in the past, so I'm ultimately fine with it.
Hisec babbies that wail about every little change that affects their horribly suboptimal mission running are literally the least affected by this change The only reason you 'accept' this is because you know it won't really be more than an slight inconvienence to you.... To a mission runner with a certain playstyle this essentially means the end of his/her playstyle. Which is not inherently a bad deal, I don't think this will make a huge impact on missioning as a whole, most of the good income for me has come from selling meta modules and LP.
Doing missions wrong isn't a playstyle. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20173
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 06:50:00 -
[197] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Andski wrote:I'm not happy about this nerf because I do mineral compression to support our supercapital builders. But I accept that mineral compression has needed a nerf and I've personally advocated for such a nerf in the past, so I'm ultimately fine with it.
Hisec babbies that wail about every little change that affects their horribly suboptimal mission running are literally the least affected by this change The only reason you 'accept' this is because you know it won't really be more than an slight inconvienence to you.... To a mission runner with a certain playstyle this essentially means the end of his/her playstyle. Which is not inherently a bad deal, I don't think this will make a huge impact on missioning as a whole, most of the good income for me has come from selling meta modules and LP. This does not in any way "end" any play style whatsoever. It slightly reduces the already small portion of mission-running income that comes from melted low-meta modules. If those are your entire play style, missions were never the right place for you to begin with. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Preceptor Stigmartyr
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 07:06:00 -
[198] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Well ****, looks like CCP is on the path to fixing Null industry  Excellent. When can we expect the Goon departure from high-sec? You have your null sandbox to sh*t all over, so kindly stop f**king around in ours... No, I think we'll have our cake and eat it too. 4/19 NEVER FORGET-áa¦á_a¦á |

Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2733
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 07:08:00 -
[199] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Jake Warbird wrote:This thread got interesting at first, now it's just gonna be a political cesspool I guess. Typical tactics. Null sec cartel propagandists want the thread closed, so they hotdrop their thread derailers. ISD locking thread in 3....2....1. JENN ASIDE CREW REPRESENT PEACE OUT DUDES |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20173
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 07:21:00 -
[200] - Quote
Preceptor Stigmartyr wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Well ****, looks like CCP is on the path to fixing Null industry  Excellent. When can we expect the Goon departure from high-sec? You have your null sandbox to sh*t all over, so kindly stop f**king around in ours... No, I think we'll have our cake and eat it too. After all, you can't eat a cake you don't haveGǪ  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
493
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 07:37:00 -
[201] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:[quote=Kyperion]
Maybe reduce the extra high slots by 1 or 2, and then add something like "Ammunition Reprocessor module" where you could take salvage/loot and directly churn it into ammunition, dunno what the paladin would do though.
The paladin could burn it all in a big steam punk furnace that drives a wibbly wobbly thing to recharge its Cap of course :D
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Ella Echerie
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.03.21 07:43:00 -
[202] - Quote
"High sec Mission runners just got completely screwed by CCP"
No they didn't. You are just having a kneejerk panic attack over a very slight nerf.
This change is good for the whole game, including High Sec. 100% reprocessing was quite broken. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
379
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 07:46:00 -
[203] - Quote
I dont understand reducing the efficiency of non-ore/ice refinement, and then hardcapping it at an efficiency below that of ice/ore.
It is correct that a mission/plex/ratter is better off blitzing and completing more missions/plexs/rats rather than wasting time on collecting low value loot that a) has little market value for function b) has little market value for refinement.
But this is not an argument for the change. It just evidences that it was crap to begin with, and will be even more crap after this change. Thiis change just makes that part of mission/plex/ratting even more unprofitable.
Result? This stuff will just be left on wrecks and never make it to market, either as is for their fitting function or refinement, nor as minerals refined by the player themselves. Meaning less minerals to market, and less modules.
Essentially amounts to making an unprofitable element, even less profitable. Nor does it incentivise player skilling into non-ore/ice refinement, because the efficiency is lower, and owing to the change, very little of the "trash" modules will ever be brought off the wrecks and to market.
I did not need nerfing. It was nerfed and crap to begin with. What is the justification for doing so? |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5282
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:04:00 -
[204] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote: What is the casual carebear doing other than hoovering up resources and ISK other players might use to fund warfare, in a war game.
They are "just" funding a good portion of the game. Little details like this matter too.
There's no explitative loop. It's called "market" and like it or not they exist even in communist areas because it's a man's foundation to relate with the others and trade.
Also, in case this was not evident enough, EvE is a cold, harsh, hyper capitalism universe simulation so Engel may safely stay under 3 feet of soil, nobody is going to miss him. Not even the Chinese. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5282
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:10:00 -
[205] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I dont understand reducing the efficiency of non-ore/ice refinement, and then hardcapping it at an efficiency below that of ice/ore.
It is correct that a mission/plex/ratter is better off blitzing and completing more missions/plexs/rats rather than wasting time on collecting low value loot that a) has little market value for function b) has little market value for refinement.
But this is not an argument for the change. It just evidences that it was crap to begin with, and will be even more crap after this change. Thiis change just makes that part of mission/plex/ratting even more unprofitable.
Result? This stuff will just be left on wrecks and never make it to market, either as is for their fitting function or refinement, nor as minerals refined by the player themselves. Meaning less minerals to market, and less modules.
Essentially amounts to making an unprofitable element, even less profitable. Nor does it incentivise player skilling into non-ore/ice refinement, because the efficiency is lower, and owing to the change, very little of the "trash" modules will ever be brought off the wrecks and to market.
I did not need nerfing. It was nerfed and crap to begin with. What is the justification for doing so?
I don't play missions nor I care at all about modules.
However I have to notice how EvE now stands out as THE MMO (and RPG game in general) where when you find loot you go "oh noes, worthless junk" instead of clicking a loot button with expectation of some nice surprise. That's imo is quite dumb, MMO gaming design speaking. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
379
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:17:00 -
[206] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I don't play missions nor I care at all about modules.
However I have to notice how EvE now stands out as THE MMO (and RPG game in general) where when you find loot you go "oh noes, worthless junk" instead of clicking a loot button with expectation of some nice surprise. That's imo is quite dumb, MMO gaming design speaking.
Depending on how much time you have and what sites you are running, it can be worth it to look through the wrecks for high-value loot. But these are generally mostly modules which have a useful function, and are sold for fitting, rather than based on their reprocessing value (with a few exceptions).
However as a result of this change, the reprocessing value of "trash" modules takes a direct nosedive, meaning less of the will be brought to market for reprocessing, and those which are, are less profitable than now.
Basically makes an already rather worthless and unprofitable activity, even less profitable and worthwhile, and for reasons that nobody has been able to explain or justify atleast to my satisfaction or understanding. |

Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
849
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:19:00 -
[207] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I dont understand reducing the efficiency of non-ore/ice refinement, and then hardcapping it at an efficiency below that of ice/ore.
It is correct that a mission/plex/ratter is better off blitzing and completing more missions/plexs/rats rather than wasting time on collecting low value loot that a) has little market value for function b) has little market value for refinement.
But this is not an argument for the change. It just evidences that it was crap to begin with, and will be even more crap after this change. Thiis change just makes that part of mission/plex/ratting even more unprofitable.
Result? This stuff will just be left on wrecks and never make it to market, either as is for their fitting function or refinement, nor as minerals refined by the player themselves. Meaning less minerals to market, and less modules.
Essentially amounts to making an unprofitable element, even less profitable. Nor does it incentivise player skilling into non-ore/ice refinement, because the efficiency is lower, and owing to the change, very little of the "trash" modules will ever be brought off the wrecks and to market.
I did not need nerfing. It was nerfed and crap to begin with. What is the justification for doing so?
The point is that the entire setup favors all goods travelling through jita as is, since minerals needed to be collected together to be compressed. This also seriously hammers mining in nullsec, because most compression is done with 425mms, which have the whole basket, which means that nullsec mins were being shipped to highsec where I'd buy them and ship them back if I wanted to build something here. The only mins available here is usually the normal excess you'd expect from people importing the railgun basket, and all miners here export to jita.
I'd also soon as possible prefer that extra mats got taken off blueprints, because they badly scale material research on BPOs.
CCP needed to make all of these changes together. Later they can choose to retune the number of drops in missions if they feel its warranted, but I bet that long term it isn't at all required, because its a portion of a portion of the income (ie meta 4s probably outweigh reproc in most peoples loot piles). |

Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
849
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:26:00 -
[208] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I don't play missions nor I care at all about modules.
However I have to notice how EvE now stands out as THE MMO (and RPG game in general) where when you find loot you go "oh noes, worthless junk" instead of clicking a loot button with expectation of some nice surprise. That's imo is quite dumb, MMO gaming design speaking.
3 weeks after an expansion, all world drops are common on the WoW market, and 6 months after an expansion, all blue world drops are being sharded, epics are hard to sell and greens are being vendored, and nobody needs the blues dropping in dungeons either- which is why they have to reset the whole game.
I have meta 4 eccms, webs, painters, sebos and other stuff I use routinely (10 years after they were put in game, they all retain some value as drops).
Also I routinely loot from entties like dewak humphries and the station at the end of the maze, and those things retain useful value many, many years after their introduction to the game. (ie dewak averages about 200m isk including his box, and I use his b-type stuff on one fit too, and still want 1 more thing off his loot table too). Those weird people that pilot shield supers buy the x-type stuff from the maze. |

Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
379
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:28:00 -
[209] - Quote
The higher efficiency on ice/ore, coupled with the compression improvement, multiplied by the naturalisation of the units of ore required for refinement (ie: generally smaller unit requirements), already in and of themselves make transporting compressed ore for refinement on POS better than 425mmproduction/reprocessing.
Furthermore if there where specific modules that where outputting too much minerals, then those are the modules which need adjusting, not a blanket and blind nerf to the mineral value of ALL modules in the entire game (as a function of a lower and hardcapped refinement efficiency).
Every single module in the game takes a nerf to its value, from a purely mineral value perspective, from this change.
I understand your point, but it is not relevant to the one I am making. I believe you are not missing my point deliberately, but there seems to be something here than I am not successfully communicating to you.
I understand the "problem" presented by the workaround solution for transporting minerals in the form of modules.
Do you understand that this net nerfs the mineral (and hence market value) of all modules in the entire game? Do you understand that this means there is even less profit and incentive in bringing "trash" modules to market? |

Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 08:32:00 -
[210] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:
The point is that the entire setup favors all goods travelling through jita as is, since minerals needed to be collected together to be compressed. This also seriously hammers mining in nullsec, because most compression is done with 425mms, which have the whole basket, which means that nullsec mins were being shipped to highsec where I'd buy them and ship them back if I wanted to build something here. The only mins available here is usually the normal excess you'd expect from people importing the railgun basket, and all miners here export to jita.
I'd also soon as possible prefer that extra mats got taken off blueprints, because they badly scale material research on BPOs.
CCP needed to make all of these changes together. Later they can choose to retune the number of drops in missions if they feel its warranted, but I bet that long term it isn't at all required, because its a portion of a portion of the income (ie meta 4s probably outweigh reproc in most peoples loot piles).
It seems to me that most of what you are writing about would have been fixed by giving POS/null refineries the same rate as in high, without killing off mineral compression and mission loot.
Or not?
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