So there we have it.

Both Tippia and Lucas refuse to outline what they perceive as the benefits to null from these proposed changes.

Its a simple request, and since they both prodess themselves as experts on the matter, youd think they would be glad to provide their own analysis of what benefits these changes provide to null. But no. They wont. Not what they are paid for it seems.

I dont think you and I are talking about the same thing.

Pockets or not, it makes no difference.

Manufacturing is probably the worst of the bunch, but it does require people play the game regularly, its probably the hardest to change overall though. Market System isn't a mechanic to make income...and if you are using it to make income it means you are actively buying and flipping product so while the game consists of refreshing market windows, you are logged in playing it. Research has recently been kicked in the nuts, but it should also be cut down to more play required in order to receive a reward.

It would hardly be identical to NPC null. NPC null has Pirate Factions, they have the ability to bubble camp their systems, they get 0.0 related anoms, faction rats, plexes. It would be LIKE NPC null, but it all ready currently is. Furthermore there is nothing wrong with attracting people to Low Sec. Not sure if you have been to Low Sec outside of FW zones, hell even FW zones are dead depending on the nature of the war.

Sentry guns are largely irrelevant. Easily tanked, easily evaded. Frigates are actually probably the best at doing this, and are used frequently by ~Good~ pilots to tackle ships that come through gates or undock from stations. Interesting though you brought up sentry guns, but ignore the sec status hit you take when you engage and receive them.

Did you know that in order to kill an enemy Pos or Poco you HAVE to take a sec status hit you don't get a choice. A sec status hit for every pos module. Twic. A sec status hit every time you engage in LS against the vast majority of players in EVE you take a sec status hit. Unlike protecting ones space in WH or NS at the end of the day LS folks get further and further away from going to HS. Pretty much requiring everyone in LS to have one or more alts just to facilitate logistics, and sustainability.

You know very little of lowsec. It is the most unsafe region, and you sacrifice the most to be able to defend what is yours or take what you want. If this game is to be balanced around risk/reward the its time to buff the **** out of LS at the cost of both HS and NS.

"I don't like this change because it will generate more content for Low Sec, and that is bad!" ~ LucasKell

Its not like you can get locked out of the systems, if you go to 319 right now I'd wager that there are about 15-20 neutrals there running missions or ship spinning or what have you.

Where or not you are blue with the current residents of delve or not is of no matter, a lot of players spend most of their time in NPC null harassing whomever lives next door, or simply running missions.

Its not like you can get locked out of the systems, if you go to 319 right now I'd wager that there are about 15-20 neutrals there running missions or ship spinning or what have you.

Where or not you are blue with the current residents of delve or not is of no matter, a lot of players spend most of their time in NPC null harassing whomever lives next door, or simply running missions.

Ya if you don't like that Null now has an arbitrary 20% bonus to refining, on top of its already 272% more profitable minerals, alongside its #1 Moon Mining Income, PI, Plex/Anom, Ratting, Exploration, Ship Building potential.

Just move there. See CCP doesn't block you out guys. Just move to NPC Null. Ya you don't get the bonus for having the upgraded services, but PC Null being more safe than NPC Null, and Low Sec deserve it! Just move out to null guys thats the answer!

Are you ever going to let me know where you got that 272% from or is that going to remain on of those "out of my ass" figures.

And will you ever stop crying about null? If it's so good, move there. If not, shut the **** up.

Please quote where I have stated that.

---

I didn't specifically mention you, but since you inferred that it was directed at you:

Please list how the proposed changes benefit null.

Oh! And another "individual" taking it to have been addressed to them.

Please list how the proposed changes benefit null.

I'm not ok with people denying that it is infact so.

tell you what, even though it's been stated at least 10 times, just to humour you, here's the main one:
By allowing a better refine rate in null.

You thought wrong.
.

Thats not a list or relevant to the proposed changes.

Hey! Guess what! That was on my list too! What a coincidence!

So you were lying then? cool. Thats pretty much sorted that out for me.
BTW your 1m isk CSPA charge is so adorable

You misreading or misunderstanding my intent does not make me a liar.
Just makes you wrong.

Aah. I accidentally left CSPA up the other day in hopes that Mandarine, the resident psychopath, would accidentally send me another enraged flame mail for me to cash in.

@Lucas: Here is the list again:


Point out where on the list it says that " it would make null sec competitive with high sec", as you claim?

Point out where on the list it says that " it would make null sec competitive with high sec", as you claim?

It's right there in the first line, since you claim it will GÇ£bring null manufacturing (enabled by the refinement efficiency) to a competitive level with highsec.GÇ¥

Now, where's your proof?
Who's denying it will benefit null?

You know you don't get the CSPA charge right?

Brainfart :/ Well, atleast she would have been out a mil.

Thanks for pointing out what parts in the list you "think" meant what you implied from them.

But if you read them carefully they do infact not specifically say what you claim they do, nor even imply it, nor is it my intention to imply it.

A null industrialist who leverages the 20% yield is perfectly capable of being competitive in high-sec markets.
Whether you choose to do so or not, is your own choice.

But if you read them carefully they do infact

Are you ever going to let me know where you got that 272% from or is that going to remain on of those "out of my ass" figures.

And will you ever stop crying about null? If it's so good, move there. If not, shut the **** up.

Beneficiaries of the change are:
-Null entities capable of financing the refinery efficiency installations
-Null sec entitites with renters who now have some degree of added incentive to mine, refine and provide resources to null domestically.
-Those renters, to some degree, depending on how sov owners adjust their rent, access to facilities, protection and possivle incenrive programs to ensure a greater flow of minerals from null domestically.
-POS owners with compression capability throughout the universe.
-Null sec entitites with the infrastructure to manufacture and sell products both to high sec markets, and also some null markets.

Those who stand to lose from the changes are::
-Reprossecors.
-Mission/rat/plex runners
-Entities currently dependant on what mission/rat/plex runners bring in.
-High sec industrialists who now have to compete with null industrialists who have a wider margin owing to the better refinement efficiency in their native space
-Miners without personal access to advanced refining facilities, in high sec as their raw output will be suppressed by the margins of compression services, in null sec because you will have to pay for the privilege as rent, which suppresses your profits.

My list remains accurate in as far as the items it contains

Those numbers are based on the current price of the #1 Isk/m3 Nullsec ore, vs the number 1 isk/m3 high sec ore. (refining those ores gets even crazier lopsided to even before this change goes live)

Alternatively the #2 NS Arkanor ore will net you 187% more Isk/m3, and the #3 Ore Bistot, will net you 163%...again Refining these only ramps these numbers up higher (especially in the case of Arkanor)

Assuming you target all three types in NS you will generate an average 196% more isk/m3 than mining Veldspar. 197% more if you are mining Veldspar AND Scrodite, and 213% more if you are mining Veldspar, Scrodite AND Pyrox.

Farming and refining the 3 NS materials gives you all the items you need to manufacture meaning you only need to import if you are over producing vs your mining capacity. Where as HS MUST import Merc/Arkanor to provide Megacyte and Morphite.

All though you would have known this if people in Null needed to use their systems to generate personal income and didn't rely on passive incomes in Moongoo to backbone SRP programs.

Nobody has disproven that reprocessors lose.

Nobody has disproven that mission/rat/plex runners lose

Nobody has disproven that those dependant on what they bring in lose.

Nobody has disproven that high sec mindustrialists nownhave to compete with nulls 20%incressed mineral yield

Nobody has disproven (and infact Baltec1 has confirmed it in Dev thread) that miners without refining or access to a refinery lose out.