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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3279
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Posted - 2014.04.13 20:49:00 -
[1051] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:so the snake will get 2 super heavy drones because that doesn't overshadow other ship lines GǪ that logic was the Dev's btw not mine, on why the gila got 2 mediums - because Ishtar Light and medium drones are one thing. Heavies - they generally suck for both PvE and PvP. Maybe the Rattlesnake loses all its drones and turns into a dedicated missile platform.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
32
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Posted - 2014.04.13 20:59:00 -
[1052] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:KaDa en Bauldry wrote:
Super-sentries might be interesting though...
oh no. they can't give the snake a bonus to sentries, because then it would overlap with the dominix so the snake will get 2 super heavy drones because that doesn't overshadow other ship lines that logic was the Dev's btw not mine, on why the gila got 2 mediums - because Ishtar and people don't understand why it's such a stupid, ******, fuckwit change
Exactly. The only commonality between Guristas and Gallente are the use of drones. The use of missiles, shield-tanking, the hull, stats and maneuverability are all typical of Caldari. The overlap argument seems without much merit considering all these difference to Gallente.
Why are Guristas current use of drones not considered an acceptable level overlap when Guristas are supposed to be a mix of Gallente and Caldari?
Make new ships if you want to create super niche application weird drone ships that nobody would really fly. |
CW Itovuo
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
17
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Posted - 2014.04.13 21:13:00 -
[1053] - Quote
I think I prefer the Gila in it's current form.
If you'd like to create some real change, rather than just tweaking the numbers here and there to make the GIla different from the Ishtar, consider...
As things stand, there is currently no drone ship in EVE that enjoys an E-WAR/Combat Utility drone bonus. Adding such a bonus would make for a unique and flexible ship, rather than a reshuffled "not-an-Ishtar-Gila." (Someone posted a similar idea around post #170)
Consider giving the Gila a 300% bonus to E-War & Combat Utility effects.
(Suggesting a 300% bonus based the proposed 20-mbit Bandwidth, but would like to see 25 to 30 minimum, reduce drone DPS % as necessary)
STRONG:
Single regular SW-600 webbing drone = 10% Single bonused Gila's SW-600 drone = 30%
Single regular Vespa 600 jam strength = 1.5 (7.8% versus hurricane) Single bonused Gila Vespa 600 drone = 4.5 (23.4% versus hurricane)
Single regular Dampening SD-600 = 12% Single bonused Gila's SD-600 drone = 36%
WEAK:
Single regular Nueting EV-600 = 1.67 cap per second Single bonused Gila EV-600 = 5.01 cap per second
Single regular Painting TP600 = +8% Single bonused Gila's TP600 = +24%
Combat Utility drones are almost completely ignored in the game. Verge of Collapse used EV600's to great effect versus Clockwork Pineapple in AT11. But even the commentators (CCP Dolan & some RK doof) we somewhat flabbergasted at their appearance. While CCP Fozzie is announcing changes to drones in this DEV BLOG, he completely ignores the E-WAR and Combat Utility class of drones.
ECM drones are strong and useful on their own, the Utility Drones could use some adjustment.
Webbing drones have always appeared hit/miss. Probably something to do w/ the speed of the target outpacing the effective range of the drone. Might need some adjustment to effective range/firing cycle....
The Nueting drones can be useful, but only in great numbers. VOC was successful in AT11, only because they were able to deploy 20+ drones against a single Logi. Providing a boost to cap drain would be welcome change.
Target painting drones... yeah, probably still not going to see much use. Perhaps TP drones should operate more like a sentry or standard TP modules. Rather than chase after a target to get into effecive range, TP drones deploy like a sentry and instantly "paint" their target, having an effective/falloff range similar to modules. Like all utility drones, percentage modified could use some love as well.
Dampening drones, like the painters, probably aren't going to see a lot of use. But having a bonused flight of them in your dronebay can be useful against an enemy falcon/logi @ range. (The Gila is somewhat hamburgered by targeting and drone range in this scenario.)
Adjusting both the utility drones and creating a ship to maximize those changes would be a positive change to the game.
Doubling the DPS output of a weapon while halving it's rate of fire is just another sidewalk card shuffle game. CCP can do better.
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Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
32
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Posted - 2014.04.13 21:17:00 -
[1054] - Quote
Why not improve the shields and close range missile damage instead of specializing Guristas into medium and heavy drones that nobody wants to use? Nobody could be angry with you for that.
If you are going to force us into specialized drones, the drones need the ability to teleport instantly back to the drone bay. |
Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
218
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Posted - 2014.04.13 21:19:00 -
[1055] - Quote
Web a drone. Half the Gilas DPS just went out the window. Not enough room in drone bay for a 2nd set.
Missiles? Roll
The only people happy with these changes are people who don't fly Guristas, the majority.
I'm sure a lot of Gila pilots are going to be happy about having to throw 2 drones away everytime they have to warp out immediately. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
622
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Posted - 2014.04.13 21:30:00 -
[1056] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Web a drone. Half the Gilas DPS just went out the window. Not enough room in drone bay for a 2nd set.
I don't know why nobody else gets this. I'd really prefer the usual 5 drones, even though they would have much less HP. |
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.13 21:51:00 -
[1057] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Web a drone. Half the Gilas DPS just went out the window. Not enough room in drone bay for a 2nd set. Small nitpick: Somehow now I see 20/100 in the drone department for the Gila. Even what I remember as original, a spare flight would have been possible with a broken flight of light ECM drones.
(Plus the dps of 6 medium launchers with kin/therm missiles. Ship needs to brawl anyways, so HAMs?) |
DR BiCarbonate
Basgerin Pirate SCUM.
82
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Posted - 2014.04.13 22:50:00 -
[1058] - Quote
Cynabal is fine where it is. no need to nerf it. |
Hehaw Jimbojohnson
Sheep Can Hear A Zipper From A Mile Away
102
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:39:00 -
[1059] - Quote
These changes make me really worry how badly they're going to **** the Machariel. The devs in charge are clearly looking at how balance was a couple years ago when they make their decisions. Past changes (such as TE nerf and buffing of other ships) have already made the Angel line balanced, if not lackluster in many ways. Nerfing them further is just going to ensure they are never used.
As for the Gila, pigeonholing it into a drone system that is currently trash (and no, the small drone changes won't fix crap, mediums will still suck) is not going to make the ship more attractive once the "OHH SHINY" factor wears off. |
Meandering Milieu
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
23
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Posted - 2014.04.13 23:56:00 -
[1060] - Quote
To those who keep saying the only overlap between guristas and gallente are drones, and that the guristas is clearly different than gallente because they shield tank and don't use hybrids:
I shield tank both my domi and my ishtar, and my ishtar doesn't even have guns. I have seen a good few people who do this, have posted about this, posted fits about this, and so on. |
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Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
3
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Posted - 2014.04.14 00:39:00 -
[1061] - Quote
To those of you who keep saying a drone boat that can use all the drones is overlapping the Ishtar (that includes you DEVs), I say a drone boat that can use all the drones does not an overlap make.
It's a drone boat, a Guristas, missile slinging brick ****house of a shield-tanking drone boat. It should be able to use all the drones just as effectively as any other drone boat.
Just because a Vigilant uses medium hybrid turrets, that doesn't mean it "overlaps" the Deimos, and so we should give it one gun that does 1000% more damage to make it different.
Subtle differences in ships are difference enough for me. I never called for anyone to change the Ishtar because it's too close in capability to the Gila, even though it's often considered "superior." How would you like to see the Ishtar lose access to sentry drones and full flights of... anything?
Why should I have to roll over and be either forced into a different role or told to 'please consider another option, thanks!' other than my favorite ship. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1336
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Posted - 2014.04.14 00:41:00 -
[1062] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:Why not improve the shields and close range missile damage instead of specializing Guristas into medium and heavy drones that nobody wants to use? Nobody could be angry with you for that.
If you are going to force us into specialized drones, the drones need the ability to teleport instantly back to the drone bay.
I would be . THere is a very limited flavor and usefulnes son yet another missile brawling ship. At least the ptoposal brign s new things. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1336
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 00:43:00 -
[1063] - Quote
Hasril Pux wrote:To those of you who keep saying a drone boat that can use all the drones is overlapping the Ishtar (that includes you DEVs), I say a drone boat that can use all the drones does not an overlap make.
It's a drone boat, a Guristas, missile slinging brick ****house of a shield-tanking drone boat. It should be able to use all the drones just as effectively as any other drone boat.
Just because a Vigilant uses medium hybrid turrets, that doesn't mean it "overlaps" the Deimos, and so we should give it one gun that does 1000% more damage to make it different.
Subtle differences in ships are difference enough for me. I never called for anyone to change the Ishtar because it's too close in capability to the Gila, even though it's often considered "superior." How would you like to see the Ishtar lose access to sentry drones and full flights of... anything?
Why should I have to roll over and be either forced into a different role or told to 'please consider another option, thanks!' other than my favorite ship.
Your example is HORRIBLE. You lack the understandign or is trolling.
Old gila DOES overlap with ishtar. DEimos and Vigilant have VASLTY different bonuses.
The change to the gila makes it even STROGNER than before with medium droens at the cost of not being able to use sentries. ITs called specialization. On your example making 1 gun do 10 tiems the base damage is nto specializaiton because theend result would be same as with more guns and less bonus. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
155
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Posted - 2014.04.14 00:43:00 -
[1064] - Quote
Gargep Farrow wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:
Maybe the problem isn't that devs play the game so much as their closed minded opinions on how the game should be played by others.
Sorry to cut your post down to such a small snippet, but the above if expanded it covers the main problem Eve has. Its not just the devs, its a good portion of the players also. "My play style is right and yours is wrong" is way too prevalent in the game. This also makes the idea of polling players on new changes almost worthless as 1 group will love a change and another will hate it with a passion. Well there is the "if both sides a bitching it must be a good change" option, but that can backfire badly CCP I presume have professional marketing staff who would be quite capable of wording a poll so as to get the information. As with any change, even with 100% support it can backfire and be terribly wrong. I think it is better than being dictated to though.
The main problem is, Devs may say they want feedback but really - look at this snip from a previous "feedback" thread and see how much leaving feedback is likely to achieve.
Quote: but the precedents set in the frigate pass And this is why. Yet another line of ship changes - As yet unable to be tested by players, set in stone. So leaving feedback on the cruiser line is pointless - The Precedent, right or wrong, for the proposed changes has been set. Players really have no say and once again need to adapt (change) their game play to suit a Devs idea of what is good.
Quote:Look forward to hearing from you o/ Is pure lip service, time and again he has shown he is not interested in any feedback unless it agrees with his position.
PS; I know Rise is not solely responsible for these changes but as with anyone who takes on the role of spokesperson for something, he is publicly responsible. A good designer he may be, dealing with "paying" public is another thing entirely. Quite simply CCP Rise, step back and let someone else interact in the forums on your teams behalf - Continually showing such a lack of respect for players is not good. Oh and simply ignoring something only shows a lack of professionalism..
CCP may own the rights to EveOnline but really, it belongs to its players, don't keep trying to turn us into mushrooms |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3279
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:08:00 -
[1065] - Quote
Bring on the battleships! I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
155
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Posted - 2014.04.14 01:16:00 -
[1066] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Bring on the battleships! The battleships are already here;
Quote:but the precedents set in the frigate pass Just go up 1 more ship size from cruisers |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3279
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:24:00 -
[1067] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:The battleships are already here; Were the new Pirate Battleship changes posted? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4658
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Posted - 2014.04.14 01:34:00 -
[1068] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:The battleships are already here; Were the new Pirate Battleship changes posted?
Don't be so obtuse.
They can be fairly easily inferred from the cruiser changes. The Vindi stays the same, probably loses some grid. The Bhaalgorn gets a web range bonus (which will be beyond evil) and probably also loses some grid, the Machariel gets *** *****, the Nightmare will be a jumbled mix of concepts, and the Nestor is still the worst ship in the game.
All we are waiting for now are the particulars. And they've already told us we'll be waiting for a while.
But whether you agree or disagree with the design philosophy being put into place so far, this the cruiser thread. So stay on topic and talk about the cruisers. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3279
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:40:00 -
[1069] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:All we are waiting for now are the particulars. And they've already told us we'll be waiting for a while. Start of next week, which isGǪ oh, right about now. Stay on topic? You mean like the nth "why I hate the new Gila" post? I think it's fairly obvious that the Gila drone changes are fixed in stone. The lack of dev response is one indication, but the more glaring reason would be the lack of any changes to the Worm in the Pirate Frigates thread. I for one welcome our new Gila overlords! I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4658
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:18:00 -
[1070] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:All we are waiting for now are the particulars. And they've already told us we'll be waiting for a while. Start of next week, which isGǪ oh, right about now. Stay on topic? You mean like the nth "why I hate the new Gila" post? I think it's fairly obvious that the Gila drone changes are fixed in stone. The lack of dev response is one indication, but the more glaring reason would be the lack of any changes to the Worm in the Pirate Frigates thread. I for one welcome our new Gila overlords!
And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting.
You do realize they won't post it on the weekend, right? It will likely show up around 1500 GMT, so about 12 hours. I suggest checking the EVE subreddit, those people have no lives at all and the thread being posted will pop up there in about a minute and a half. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3279
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:23:00 -
[1071] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting. Yes, if saying the same thing over and over and over can be considered "on topic"GǪ But on-topic, I think the Gila changes are going to go over a lot better than anything for the Rattlesnake. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4659
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:31:00 -
[1072] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting. Yes, if saying the same thing over and over and over can be considered "on topic"GǪ But on-topic, I think the Gila changes are going to go over a lot better than anything for the Rattlesnake.
Personally I think the Gila will become an excellent ship, and I intend to purchase a few Worms to fly as well, since that ship will no longer be the least cost effective frigate in the game.
I really do think most of the "sky is falling" is coming from people who don't want to give up their sentry drones. I've said as much a few times. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3279
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 03:03:00 -
[1073] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I really do think most of the "sky is falling" is coming from people who don't want to give up their sentry drones. I've said as much a few times. Sentry drones are more of an issue on the Rattlesnake, since it's primarily a PvE boat. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
156
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:14:00 -
[1074] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting. Yes, if saying the same thing over and over and over can be considered "on topic"GǪ But on-topic, I think the Gila changes are going to go over a lot better than anything for the Rattlesnake. Personally I think the Gila will become an excellent ship, and I intend to purchase a few Worms to fly as well, since that ship will no longer be the least cost effective frigate in the game. I really do think most of the "sky is falling" is coming from people who don't want to give up their sentry drones. I've said as much a few times. I'd be curious as to how you feel the Gila will become "excellent". Aside from possibly being able to brawl in a gang with plenty of tackle. The beauty of the Gila has always been its versatility, it will no longer be as versatile.
If the Ishtar was limited to 2 medium drones would it still be usable in the same fashion or roles as it is now? If the Domi only had 2 heavy drones would that be acceptable? |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
118
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:19:00 -
[1075] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And that post is still more on topic than the "I want the battleship stats" posting. Yes, if saying the same thing over and over and over can be considered "on topic"GǪ But on-topic, I think the Gila changes are going to go over a lot better than anything for the Rattlesnake. Personally I think the Gila will become an excellent ship, and I intend to purchase a few Worms to fly as well, since that ship will no longer be the least cost effective frigate in the game. I really do think most of the "sky is falling" is coming from people who don't want to give up their sentry drones. I've said as much a few times.
I agree that there is a lot of overreaction to the Gila changes, but I want to point out that some people, like me, aren't claiming that the Gila will definitely be bad if the current proposed changes go through, just that it will be boring and too niche.
I also agree with those who have pointed out that differentiating it from the Ishtar is an weak reason to change the Gila so dramatically.
I also agree, to some extent, with those who have claimed that such a dramatic change in function is very frustrating for those players who have invested significant skillpoints into the Gila.
I also say that it would not be difficult at all to make the Gila capable of the role CCP is currently pushing on it (medium drone specialist) without limiting it to that role alone. I usually refrain from posting numbers, because I'm not a developer, but just as an example:
Caldari Cruiser: 4% to all shield resistance
Gallente Cruiser: 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints
Role Bonus: 50% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints 25% Kinetic and Thermal missile damage
Drones (bandwidth / bay) 50 / 200
The above bonuses fit the racial specializations better, smooth the skillpoint curve of the ship between its weapon systems, and allow specialization in medium drones without limiting versatility as much as the current changes. My numbers may not be prefect, but I would much rather see the Guristas go in this direction than in the (currently proposed) very limited one. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3279
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 03:22:00 -
[1076] - Quote
Heretic! I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.14 04:00:00 -
[1077] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Your example is HORRIBLE. You lack the understandign or is trolling. And what if he compared the Vaga to the Cyna? Autocannons and speed for both, yet none of them is made something vastly different. (Picked it at random, since people complained here anything the Cyna does the Vaga does better.) |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3279
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Posted - 2014.04.14 04:23:00 -
[1078] - Quote
Other than drone-related changes for the Gila, does this adequately summarize player-suggested tweaks?
GÇó Gila; +5 mbit bandwidth so it can field a full flight of light drones GÇó Vigilant; reduction or elimination of the PG nerf GÇó Cynnabal; reduction or elimination of the PG nerf
Everyone generally seems to be happy with the Ashimmu and Phantasm and the increase of cargo space. With the exception of the PG nerfs, the Cynnabal and Vigilant are also fine (warp speed bonus is a plus for the Cynnabal). As for the Gila, the missile bonus is fairly well-received, but the drone changes are a mixed bag of snakes. Did I miss anything? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Vinyl 41
Perkone Academy
44
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Posted - 2014.04.14 04:34:00 -
[1079] - Quote
not sure if the code can support this change but why not limit gurista ships to just 2 hardcapped drones launched ie worm - 2 lights gila - 2 lights or 2 meds rattler - 2 lights or 2 meds or 2 heavys wouldn't that fix most of the complains ? |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
3279
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 04:35:00 -
[1080] - Quote
Vinyl 41 wrote:not sure if the code can support this change but why not limit gurista ships to just 2 hardcapped drones launched I've got a better ideaGǪ Since the Gurista ships now grant a Gallente missile bonus, let's just drop the drones and make these missile boats. Problem solved. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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