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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6342
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:16:00 -
[841] - Quote
So, bit off topic, but I noticed your signature, Dracvlad.
Wasn't Hub Zero that silly Grr Goons NPC null thing Infinity Ziona was working on before he got banned? Or am I thinking of something else? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
415
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:17:00 -
[842] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I have no argument. I know. That explains why you have yet to provide any kind of counter-argument to what I actually said, so maybe you should try doing that rather than just troll a lot, hmmGǪ? If there's any particular part you fail to process for whatever, just ask. I still won't bite.
Tippia wrote:The big nullsec alliances weren't particularly fussed about industry being local GÇö they just wanted null industry to not be a thoroughly braindead proposition... .
Counter argument to your stupid counter argument, you are really bad at this. Don't be a turd and follow the herd Instead be a Hero at Hub Zero |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
415
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:20:00 -
[843] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So, bit off topic, but I noticed your signature, Dracvlad.
Wasn't Hub Zero that silly Grr Goons NPC null thing Infinity Ziona was working on before he got banned? Or am I thinking of something else?
Infinity Ziona got banned, damn, I wondered what happened because he suddenly disappeared, please could you send me an in game mail on anything you know, the lads liked Infinity a lot as I did so we will all be a bit gutted if this is the case. Don't be a turd and follow the herd Instead be a Hero at Hub Zero |
Jatok Reknar
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
2
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:20:00 -
[844] - Quote
Hmm I was hoping this change would be a nice buff. But after reading it, kind of sad. :( Freighters were definitely not over-powered before and this feels like a nerf effectively.
If freighters need to be hyper-specialized like this, we need to be able to swap configurations on the fly (like modules). Not choose our setup based on rigs which can't be swapped out. This feels like:
- More expensive to setup a freighter for any job - Still no configuration to adapt to a new job without massive expensive to swap out rigs
You would essentially have at least the small-fish (who cannot afford a number of freighters setup for the job at hand) resorting to finding a mediocre balance of states, rigging it appropriately and never touching it again for the life of that ship. I don't think that counts as giving more configurable options.
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Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
236
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:22:00 -
[845] - Quote
I doubt Inifinity got banned. Probably Kaarous just trolling as usual as he has an axe to grind with Infinity. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21936
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:24:00 -
[846] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Counter argument to your stupid counter argument, you are really bad at this. Your counter argument beingGǪ what? And what stupid about my argument? Again (no, it won't go away no matter how hard you try to avoid it GÇö only actually answering the questions will do that): you have yet to provide any kind of counter-argument to what I actually said, so maybe you should try doing that rather than just troll a lot, hmmGǪ? If there's any particular part you fail to process for whatever, just ask. I still won't bite.
I'm beginning to think that you don't even know what the supposed argument was to begin with by now because you've managed to confuse yourself so much with your fallacies. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
605
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:26:00 -
[847] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:I doubt Inifinity got banned. Probably Kaarous just trolling as usual as he has an axe to grind with Infinity.
He didn't get banned, just had a hilarious meltdown in OOPE: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=337649 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Station Sitter
Heavy Star Industries
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 17:33:00 -
[848] - Quote
How about a decrease in build costs to compensate in the need for rigs to return to what we have now? This sucks, to be perfectly honest. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
416
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:38:00 -
[849] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
The same person reported me for using a similar word to Twit and another for using the word d*ck, he is actively using the petition system to attack our people on any swear word he can find. Don't be a turd and follow the herd Instead be a Hero at Hub Zero |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11625
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 17:41:00 -
[850] - Quote
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:baltec1 wrote:We worked out that there are greater chances of you being struck by lightning in RL than getting ganked. Unless you do something silly like stuffing 10 billion in the hold. Male bovine manure. The average chance per year of getting hit by lightening for someone living in the US is around 1 in 500,000. In EVE terms this means, that for the chances to just be equal, then there has to be an average of 500,000 freighter pilots active for each freighter killed by suicide ganks in EVE per year. So with a total of 155 freighters and jump freighters killed just during the four days of Burn Jita 3, those losses alone would require a total of 155 * 500,000 = 77,500,000 individual (jump) freighter pilots being active in space at least once in a given year. Then there are all the other suicide kills, like the ongoing CODEdot campaign in Isanamo, the russians and CFC in Niarja etc. Somehow your statement seems just a tiny bit unlikely to be true...
The average month sees around 30 to 40 ganks. Now, we dont work out the chance based on per pilot but per trip and we do not include people who made themselves a target by stuffing billions in the hold. There are millions of trips made by Freighters each and every month. Over the span of the last decade, taking into account the number of freighter trips made the numbers work out as being much lower than being struck by lightning. Granted you are still more likely to be ganked than win the lottery.
The vast bulk of people will never be ganked. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Digger Pollard
Why So Platypus
3
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:47:00 -
[851] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
First of all, it's not zero. Concord will destroy your ship 100% of the time, so the risk is 100%. Steps taken to mitigate the effects of that risk is called smart gameplay.
Secondly, ganking is only as easy, and as profitable, as bad players make it for us.
Thirdly, I have seen 8 billion isk killmails that drop less than 300mil. It does happen, and since the possibility of that happening is NOT zero, that means that risk is in fact involved in any gank, regardless of how much the freighter is hauling.
First of all, it's zero. You know about concord, so it's not a risk, it's actually something you can reliably count on. Calling concord a "risk" should deprive you from using word "smart". But since you're a gankbear, you shouldn't use "risk" either...
Secondly, ganking is only as EXTREMELY easy as people ARE FORCED to make it for you, because there is no alternative to a freighter and no alternative to what you haul - you haul what you have to. There is no alternative to a route either. Just how much easier could it be?
Thirdly, I have seen 10 billion isk killmails which drop 11 billion, due to price calculator and jita price difference.
Gankbears being stupid lazy risk-averse crybabies as usual. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
57
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:47:00 -
[852] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:I want gank pilots to have to scan my Charon to see what defenses (or lack thereof) I have on my ship.
so you're willing to take a massive freighter nerf, just so gankers have to click 1 more button before they gank you? They could always just make freighters immune to scanning That would cause a ruckus, but would be more in line with the risk/reward Freighter ganking has zero risk, except maybe the loot fairy, and all the rewards First of all, it's not zero. Concord will destroy your ship 100% of the time, so the risk is 100%. Steps taken to mitigate the effects of that risk is called smart gameplay. Secondly, ganking is only as easy, and as profitable, as bad players make it for us. Thirdly, I have seen 8 billion isk killmails that drop less than 300mil. It does happen, and since the possibility of that happening is NOT zero, that means that risk is in fact involved in any gank, regardless of how much the freighter is hauling.
Concord is NOT a risk, it is a known outcome - a calculated outcome based on scanning the ship - NOT a risk, it is 100% a known quantity
second - has nothing to do with risk reward for ganking, that is risk/reward for hauling
third - I gave the loot fairy as a prime example - and the only real risk
So, if you couldn't scan would you stop ganking? probably not - therefore the risk is still worth the reward if if you can't scan |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11627
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 17:50:00 -
[853] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
First of all, it's not zero. Concord will destroy your ship 100% of the time, so the risk is 100%. Steps taken to mitigate the effects of that risk is called smart gameplay.
Secondly, ganking is only as easy, and as profitable, as bad players make it for us.
Thirdly, I have seen 8 billion isk killmails that drop less than 300mil. It does happen, and since the possibility of that happening is NOT zero, that means that risk is in fact involved in any gank, regardless of how much the freighter is hauling.
First of all, it's zero. You know about concord, so it's not a risk, it's actually something you can reliably count on. Calling concord a "risk" should deprive you from using word "smart". But since you're a gankbear, you shouldn't use "risk" either... Secondly, ganking is only as EXTREMELY easy as people ARE FORCED to make it for you, because there is no alternative to a freighter and no alternative to what you haul - you haul what you have to. There is no alternative to a route either. Just how much easier could it be? Thirdly, I have seen 10 billion isk killmails which drop 11 billion, due to price calculator and jita price difference. Gankbears being stupid lazy risk-averse crybabies as usual.
As opposed to a freighter pilot who thinks he should be able to ship 10 billion at a time in safety Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Dave Stark
5764
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:51:00 -
[854] - Quote
oh stop saying there's 0 risk, it's false, and every time some one says it we have to wheel out the same old argument to prove them wrong.
instead of being wrong; just stop derailing the thread. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6343
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:52:00 -
[855] - Quote
"Risk".
As in "possibility of incurring loss".
Just because it's a 100% possibility does not mean that the loss isn't there. It doesn't mean the loss doesn't count.
And as for this hilarious statement:
Digger Pollard wrote: Secondly, ganking is only as EXTREMELY easy as people ARE FORCED to make it for you, because there is no alternative to a freighter and no alternative to what you haul - you haul what you have to. There is no alternative to a route either. Just how much easier could it be?
You are not forced to do anything. There is no game mechanic forcing you to put too much isk into your cargohold, and no game mechanic that forces you to autopilot.
And there is certainly no game mechanic forcing you to not use a web escort.
Those things are all choices you make. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21938
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 17:52:00 -
[856] - Quote
Digger Pollard wrote:First of all, it's zero. You know about concord, so it's not a risk, it's actually something you can reliably count on. GǪand that doesn't preclude it from being a risk (especially since it isn't a 100% chance).
Quote:Secondly, ganking is only as EXTREMELY easy as people ARE FORCED to make it for you, because there is no alternative to a freighter and no alternative to what you haul - you haul what you have to. There are plenty of alternatives in what you haul, how much of it you haul, what you haul it in, what route you take (yes, there are alternatives), how you fly that route, what protections you bring along etc etc etc. No-one is forcing you to do anything.
Quote:Thirdly, I have seen 10 billion isk killmails which drop 11 billion, due to price calculator and jita price difference. That just proves that the risks are huge.
No matter what, any attempt at framing ganking as risk free is inherently ignorant and rather disqualifies anyone who makes that kind of claim from taking part of the discussion since they are so unfamiliar with the topic. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
57
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Posted - 2014.05.18 17:57:00 -
[857] - Quote
1risk noun \-êrisk\ : the possibility that something bad or unpleasant (such as an injury or a loss) will happen
: someone or something that may cause something bad or unpleasant to happen
: a person or thing that someone judges to be a good or bad choice for insurance, a loan, etc.
All 3 of those definitions rely on an unkown outcome
Possibilty, may and judges
Will, shall and certainly are in a different category altogether |
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:03:00 -
[858] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The vast bulk of people will never be ganked. Stop squirming, for your own sake.
Completely empty freighters are being ganked in Isanamo at regular intervals 'for the lulz' or RP reasons. For your original statement to be true, then there needs to be 500'000 individual freighter pilots active in space at least once per year, just for a single gank like that. Even that cannot be true.
If you have better statistics available than the reference I provided, including hard facts on number of freighter trips made in EVE per year, then I wouldn't mind helping to calculate the exact chance of being ganked per trip.
Have you Communicated with your fellow capsuleers today? It is good for the EVE-oconomy and o-kay for you. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11629
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:03:00 -
[859] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:1risk noun \-êrisk\ : the possibility that something bad or unpleasant (such as an injury or a loss) will happen
: someone or something that may cause something bad or unpleasant to happen
: a person or thing that someone judges to be a good or bad choice for insurance, a loan, etc.
All 3 of those definitions rely on an unkown outcome
Possibilty, may and judges
Will, shall and certainly are in a different category altogether
You may not kill the target.
You might not get the drop.
You might be attacked at any time.
You own freighter may be attacked and killed.
And then we have all of the punishments for attacking someone in high sec. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Dave Stark
5769
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:03:00 -
[860] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:All 3 of those definitions rely on an unkown outcome wrong. |
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Alexander McKeon
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
65
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:04:00 -
[861] - Quote
Did anyone take a look at that post I made a while back suggesting the use of subsystems instead of rigs? It would allow Freighters & JFs to be customized differently, permit JFs to be given rage / fuel consumption modifications without affecting any other capitals and avoid needing an across-the-board nerf to prevent freighters from over-excelling in any one area because the trade-offs are built into the subsystems.
Seems like an elegant solution to many of the concerns raised in this thread. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21946
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:05:00 -
[862] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:All 3 of those definitions rely on an unkown outcome GǪand they're very simplistic common-language descriptions rather than proper analytic definitions.
Risk is not limited to unpleasant outcomes, nor does it arbitrarily cut of parts of the probability spectrum. Any outcome that you can assign any probability to can be expressed as a risk. The higher the probability and/or outcome, the higher the risk.
The risks involved in ganking are so far away from zero that anyone who claims that they're even close has immediately proven themselves completely unfamiliar with everything related to ganking. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6355
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:05:00 -
[863] - Quote
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:baltec1 wrote:The vast bulk of people will never be ganked. Stop squirming, for your own sake. Completely empty freighters are being ganked in Isanamo at regular intervals 'for the lulz' or RP reasons. For your original statement to be true, then there needs to be 500'000 individual freighter pilots active in space at least once per year, just for a single gank like that. Even that cannot be true. If you have better statistics available than the reference I provided, including hard facts on number of freighter trips made in EVE per year, then I wouldn't mind helping to calculate the exact chance of being ganked per trip.
That, or five thousand freighter pilots in space a hundred times a year. And I'm pretty sure it's actually a lot higher than that.
Anyway, if you don't want to get ganked in New Order territory, first of all don't go there, but most of all don't autopilot through it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11633
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:06:00 -
[864] - Quote
Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:baltec1 wrote:The vast bulk of people will never be ganked. Stop squirming, for your own sake. Completely empty freighters are being ganked in Isanamo at regular intervals 'for the lulz' or RP reasons. For your original statement to be true, then there needs to be 500'000 individual freighter pilots active in space at least once per year, just for a single gank like that. Even that cannot be true. If you have better statistics available than the reference I provided, including hard facts on number of freighter trips made in EVE per year, then I wouldn't mind helping to calculate the exact chance of being ganked per trip.
Whats with this 500,000 freighter pilots? Did you even bother to read what I said?
Also please post said empty freighters. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
518
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:08:00 -
[865] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vhelnik Cojoin wrote:baltec1 wrote:The vast bulk of people will never be ganked. Stop squirming, for your own sake. Completely empty freighters are being ganked in Isanamo at regular intervals 'for the lulz' or RP reasons. For your original statement to be true, then there needs to be 500'000 individual freighter pilots active in space at least once per year, just for a single gank like that. Even that cannot be true. If you have better statistics available than the reference I provided, including hard facts on number of freighter trips made in EVE per year, then I wouldn't mind helping to calculate the exact chance of being ganked per trip. That, or five thousand freighter pilots in space a hundred times a year. And I'm pretty sure it's actually a lot higher than that. Anyway, if you don't want to get ganked in New Order territory, first of all don't go there, but most of all don't autopilot through it.
Neither nor is possible or helps a lot. Their space is "everywhere" and they besiege critical junctions... |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research Special Circumstances Alliance
14
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:08:00 -
[866] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote: They could always just make freighters immune to scanning That would cause a ruckus, but would be more in line with the risk/reward Freighter ganking has zero risk, except maybe the loot fairy, and all the rewards
Suddenly, there is not so bad idea, for a change. A capital size anti-cargo scan rig. No other capital ship (aside from, probably, industrial capitals) will benefit from it anyway. |
PaulsAvatar
IXCO
4
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:11:00 -
[867] - Quote
Add me to the list of people who would prefer no changes at all over this poorly thought out mess. All the current proposed changes do is validate all the people who said CCP couldn't possibly do this right and would nerf things into the ground.
To be a bit more constructive: making it so that in order to get *most* of the current stats back, we need to fit T2 capital rigs, and overall performance drops no matter what, isn't going to work. T1 maybe we could bear with. It doesn't really add any flexibility, and only adds one choice made in the beginning, which is a small improvement. But as is you're basically saying we spend biollions in isk in order to get a small nerf or not spend billions and have a severely crippled half complete ship compared to what we have now. Spending billions on rigs is not an option for me, so you could see how I personally would prefer they be left as complete ships as they are now. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1537
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:13:00 -
[868] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So, bit off topic, but I noticed your signature, Dracvlad.
Wasn't Hub Zero that silly Grr Goons NPC null thing Infinity Ziona was working on before he got banned? Or am I thinking of something else?
thankyou for that little gem. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
157
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:14:00 -
[869] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:I want gank pilots to have to scan my Charon to see what defenses (or lack thereof) I have on my ship.
so you're willing to take a massive freighter nerf, just so gankers have to click 1 more button before they gank you?
There is no nerf, if rigs AND MODS are added to freighters it just makes them like all the other ships in the game (i.e. meaningful choice at a cost).
Let me ask you this, what if every ship in the game had no rigs and no mods, you got hull bonuses and that was it?
Would you even be playing this game? Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Dave Stark
5772
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:15:00 -
[870] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:I want gank pilots to have to scan my Charon to see what defenses (or lack thereof) I have on my ship.
so you're willing to take a massive freighter nerf, just so gankers have to click 1 more button before they gank you? There is no nerf, if rigs AND MODS are added to freighters it just makes them like all the other ships in the game (i.e. meaningful choice at a cost). Let me ask you this, what if every ship in the game had no rigs and no mods, you got hull bonuses and that was it? Would you even be playing this game?
alternatively, you could just answer the question that i put to you. |
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