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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Frools	Posted - 2006.05.31 12:27:00 - [181] Originally by: Kcel Chim To get the full dmg output of all interceptors, dreadsm cruisers and bs you MUST train missiles. well technically if you want the full damage output of the: malediction omen prophecy sacrilege you have to train missiles too, but a lot of people just fit a nos
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.05.31 12:32:00 - [182] Originally by: Sarmaul New Sacri: 6/4/5, 5 launchers, 4 turrets Amarr Cruiser: 10% energy turret cap use, 5% armour resists Heavy Assault: 10% launcher velocity and 5% launcher rof (NO EM MISSILE BONUS!!!!) People who want to use turrets can still do so and have the same damage output as a maller. People who want to use missiles can do so and get a 25% rof bonus (which is better than a 25% damage bonus). Also, the 10% launcher velocity instead of flight time will allow it to hit targets quicker and hit quicker targets (you might need to read that a couple of times). I think a missile Sacriledge needs 2 missile damage bonuses. 5% EM dmg and 5% ROF per level for the HAC skill. 5 launchers and a ROF bonus would leave it doing far less dmg than it does even now. Not having a velocity and range bonus would really separate it from the Cerb in terms of usable range. Especially when cruiser torps are introduced.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.05.31 12:39:00 - [183] Originally by: Kcel Chim you know thats a very selective view. Youre forgetting the cyclone, rapier and typhoon I didn't forget the phoon i said it was an exception. The Cyclone gets no bonus's to it's launcher slots so they are better used for NOS anyway. It gets a dual bonus to it's turrets... The Rapier has an awesome 1 launcher with no bonus's so uhh you're gonna spec heavy missiles to use that? I think you meant the Huginn anyway. Yeah it has a split weapon system like the Sac. If anything you have to train missiles about as much as Amarr does... - _____
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.31 12:42:00 - [184] Originally by: Meridius The Cyclone gets no bonus's to it's launcher slots so they are better used for NOS anyway. It gets a dual bonus to it's turrets... last time I checked, 7.5% shield boosting per level didn't have much of an effect on turrets :P Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Udyr Vulpayne	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:14:00 - [185] i'm highly in favour of the khanid ships to be turned into armortanking missile boats. however stay away with the em-missile bonus. the reason i want to use missiles instead of lasers sometimes is the possibility to do other types of damage than em/therm. an em-missile bonus on an amarrian ship is about as usefull as rof bonus on a freighter. some time ago i won a light precission em-missile bpo. i sold it because even if we had some nice missileboats i wouldnt want to use em in it. there are already loads of bonuses around which are rather useless for the ship they are used on (maller has a cap bonus for cruiser sized lasers, damage bonuses on cov ops frigs or all other em missile bonuses on amarrian ships). theres really no need to add more of those.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:15:00 - [186] Edited by: Sarmaul on 31/05/2006 13:18:18 Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne maller has a cap bonus for cruiser sized lasers the maller is a cruiser and uses lasers Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:17:00 - [187] Originally by: Tassi Originally by: Tuxford reasonbable stuff Delete vengeance, give retribution another mid and everybody is happy. no no no. give retribution a 5th turret point, more grid and cpu, and we would get a more unique ship ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:22:00 - [188] The Hawk kind of got gimped here.. I was kind of hoping for ROF + Kinetic Missile DMG. Why? Because Standard Launchers currently suck without a rate of fire bonus, they have the same ROF as a Heavy Launcher still.. Rockets are kind of gimped too.. and T2 missiles don't even work well on frigates to begin with.. missiles + frigates kind of blows now. Anyways Hawk will do less DPS than a Kestrel.. ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:27:00 - [189] Originally by: Jim Raynor The Hawk kind of got gimped here.. I was kind of hoping for ROF + Kinetic Missile DMG. Why? Because Standard Launchers currently suck without a rate of fire bonus, they have the same ROF as a Heavy Launcher still.. Rockets are kind of gimped too.. and T2 missiles don't even work well on frigates to begin with.. missiles + frigates kind of blows now. Anyways Hawk will do less DPS than a Kestrel.. I support this splendid post of 'stuff'. Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:31:00 - [190] Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Jim Raynor The Hawk kind of got gimped here.. I was kind of hoping for ROF + Kinetic Missile DMG. Why? Because Standard Launchers currently suck without a rate of fire bonus, they have the same ROF as a Heavy Launcher still.. Rockets are kind of gimped too.. and T2 missiles don't even work well on frigates to begin with.. missiles + frigates kind of blows now. Anyways Hawk will do less DPS than a Kestrel.. I support this splendid post of 'stuff'. ...yes I support it too.. that's why we need the 4th bonus ...that or change the dmg bonus to a RoF one... ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:34:00 - [191] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Tassi Originally by: Tuxford reasonbable stuff Delete vengeance, give retribution another mid and everybody is happy. no no no. give retribution a 5th turret point, more grid and cpu, and we would get a more unique ship This wouldn't help the amarr frig situation at all. Amarr have no reasonable t2 frig that is able to do some solowork, like the other races have.
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:38:00 - [192] Even though these ship changes have been delayed for the moment, i'm still puzzled as to why the assault frigs are having a bonus getting replaced instead of adding the 4th bonus. Losing the Wolf's optimal bonus doesn't look like that bad a change at first but the long range ability of the wolf with artillery gets hurt by this. The vengeance is even losing a potential 33% range for both beam and pulse lasers(not just one turret type). Jaguar's tracking bonus I could live without but it's still a handy bonus to have. So why not add these bonus changes as the 4th bonus and keep a current bonus? Of course this would mean also adding a 4th bonus to the unmentioned assault frigs but I don't see where that could be a problem. - phew! dodged the mods on this sig!
Stab Wound	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:38:00 - [193] z0mg, time to train minnie frigs to 5. :D Jaguar should be fking sweet now, its like a little Vagabond... with extra midslot to ECM-***** with. ;D That shivers me timbers. This patchnotes = goodness. \o/ Always nice to see some c'raptastic ships be turned into something very useful. The age of the Typhoon is upon us...
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:52:00 - [194] Originally by: Tuxford See the thing is with Amarr is that they don't really have a "flavor" like the other races. The Caldari have missiles and rails (people have different opinions about which is the caldari weapon system). Gallante have hybrids and drones and minmatar have well speed. Amarr on the other hand tank and gank that makes it pretty hard to make to combat ships that are similar but yet different, this holds especially true for Assault Ships and Heavy Assault Ships. One way to change this is simply by taking the Khanid design to hard and really go for it. For example we could make some changes to Vengeance, give it 3 missile hardpoints, change the laser cap need bonus to armor resistance and then give it 5% em missile damage an 10% missile velocity. Not quite as good as the hawk but probably has more tanking potential and by keeping more of its med slots free. Similar things could be done to the Sacrilege. So some of you might have the question "why the hell don't you just do it?" Well the problem is that these are still Amarr ships even thought they are made by Khanid. Is it fair to ask an amarr ships that he has to train for a different weapon system just to get use of both their AS/HAS. Well Caldari need to do and so do Gallente. Minmatar partly have to do, they can ignore missiles but there are so many ships that have missile hardpoints that probably not many do. So you see this is not really as simple as just making Vengeance a missile boat and everybody is happy because not everybody would be. I totally see this argument - I've argued it myself before. However... I'm going off it, for two reasons. 1) Amarr needs more diversity. It needs it OOC because as you say there's no breadth to their strategy atm, and it needs it OOC because it's not just fighting the Matari any more and even they have insane EM and therm resists on T2 ships which make "lasers lasers lasers" increasingly obsolete. 2) Khanid ships suck anyway. Currently the Vengeance sucks, the Anathema sucks, the Heretic's ok, the Sac's just a weak Zealot, and the Damnation is kinda cool. The only Khanid ship that doesn't suck is the Curse, because it sucks - it has Nos. The easy fallback here is just missiles. It's a bit of a cop-out, but it's better than the current situation. We already have a missile frig. If you gave the Omen the ability to mount more launchers (say a 4/4 loadout with its 5 highs), then you could justify making the Khanid ships far more missile-focussed. This would make them missile-spewing armour tankers, which gives them a unique and distinctly Khanid role (shield-tanking laser users would require insane cap, which would probably be unbalancing). This would work - current Amarr pilots lose nothing because at worst they'll just continue to ignore Khanid ships, and it gives them and new pilots the opportunity to use a new fighting style. This I think would be a pretty acceptable way out of this problem. The more interesting one would be to give Khanid a new specialty. For example, let the Curse point the way and start giving them Nos/Neut bonuses. This may have to go hand-in-hand with a rework of Nos/Neut in general, but that's probably needed anyway. A less problematic solution actually would be just Neuts, with Nos bonuses reserved for the Curse - Amarr ships have the cap to deal with Neuts more than most races do, so it would make sense. If you did give them Nos bonuses too, it'd also be the most appropriate race for them IMO as Amarr generally have the biggest caps and thus, if you're swapping out weapons for Nos, the least benefit from the obtained cap, making their primary useful effect the consequences for their opponents. The Amarr have always been particularly engineering-heavy so I think this kind of approach would fit nicely, and complement their combat style. The only other option really is Smart Bombs, and they'd need a radical overhaul before they could be a primary system for anyone.
Fuyursuki	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:54:00 - [195] Minmatar finally getting some love?! what strange new world is this A very good one in my eyes 'Suki
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.05.31 13:56:00 - [196] Originally by: Tassi Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Tassi Originally by: Tuxford reasonbable stuff Delete vengeance, give retribution another mid and everybody is happy. no no no. give retribution a 5th turret point, more grid and cpu, and we would get a more unique ship This wouldn't help the amarr frig situation at all. Amarr have no reasonable t2 frig that is able to do some solowork, like the other races have. no? well solo'ing in AF's is a bit hard anyways. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.05.31 14:05:00 - [197] Originally by: Fuyursuki Minmatar finally getting some love?! what strange new world is this A very good one in my eyes 'Suki Now just getting rid of Target Painters and I will fly them again From Dusk till Dawn
Wizie	Posted - 2006.05.31 14:18:00 - [198] Would appreciate some reduction on fitting reqs of 720 howitzers and clip size of 1400 arti. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.31 14:19:00 - [199] Originally by: Wizie Would appreciate some reduction on fitting reqs of 720 howitzers and clip size of 1400 arti. psst, we want to increase the clip size of 1400mm, not decrease it ;) Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2006.05.31 14:19:00 - [200] I'm totally in favour of turning Khanid ships into missile boats, because a)That'll make some other race than Caldari have missile ships, which would make missiles more liekly to be balanced. b)Khanid ships suck. Nobody uses em anyways. If they were missile boats some people might not train for missiles but those that would would find Khanid ships to be pretty good. This way atlest somebody would use em While you're at it, you might turn Roden ships into something else then missile/guns hybrids. I wnat more ships like Enyo, not stuff like Ares!! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Udyr Vulpayne	Posted - 2006.05.31 14:43:00 - [201] Originally by: Sarmaul the maller is a cruiser and uses lasers yes...just not cruiser sized ones. being a fan of the maller i always thought it was a great ship. however after reading some recent whine posts about the inability to actually use cruiser sized lasers on this ship in a way which would be preferable over using frig sized guns i decided to take another look at it and come up with a decent fitting....that pretty much failed. i still think it's a nice ship but like most people i do use frig sized guns on my mallers. maybe even some cruiser sized ac's but trying to fit lasers on it isn't good for anything more than maybe lvl2 missions. if you want to take advantage of the mallers many lowslots and its resistance bonus you're far better off with small guns..regardless of type. hence the cap bonus on crusier sized lasers is wasted.
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.05.31 14:43:00 - [202] Originally by: tuxford The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants It makes us ALL very happy in the pants. Amarr desperately need some variety, and some variety in damage types. This would do both. It would also be unique, which is something that would be good for the game overall as a whole as variety = interest = subscription retention. And TBH anyone who didn't want to use missiles would still have lots of Amarr ships to choose from. The VAST majority of the Khanid ships are utter and complete crap. So let's take a look. Malediction: An armor tanking crow!!?? Yes please! Vengeance: Armor tanking Hawk with decent mids? Oh yes yes yes! Curse: No thank you, perfect as is. Sacri: More like a Cerb, less like a crappy Zealot? Definitely needed! Really I wouldn't mind you turning the Apoc into an armor tanking missile spewer. It is pretty crappy in pvp and it's use as a mining platform is all it does well for PvE (Raven is FAR superior for ratting/lvl 4). That may be a harder sell though. Tweak the Khanid ships. Honestly they can't get much worse. Nyxus Edit: Well, they would be worse if they did split weapons. But missile spewing armor boats sound like sooooo much fun (in my pants!) Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Tachy	Posted - 2006.05.31 15:03:00 - [203] I am sorry to read that the ship changes are taken out temporarily again. Somehow someone seems to be trying to balance ships with a cookiecutter strategy. That might be a false impression, but still ... --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Krayl	Posted - 2006.05.31 15:44:00 - [204] If Ammar got armour tanking missile ships, I, for one, would train them like yesterday... (Next on the list: Shield tanked laser ships, I guess...) Ammar certainly need a bit more variety, Minmatar seem to have enough different designs to not really need missiles. I suppose the other option is to perhaps give the Sac and Vengance some drone bonuses maybe? Not as good as gallente, obviously, and the curse already does drones to some extent, but perhaps there is room for some more Ammar drone ships?
Mathra	Posted - 2006.05.31 15:51:00 - [205] Wow, I never thought I'd live to see Minmatar getting the biggest boost. w00t!
Electric Cucumber	Posted - 2006.05.31 16:03:00 - [206] @ the Vengeance.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.31 16:16:00 - [207] T1 ships and weapons need balance before T2 ships i dare u to fly a maller or omen on traq with ur player char tux -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
HankMurphy	Posted - 2006.05.31 16:33:00 - [208] Originally by: Stab Wound z0mg, time to train minnie frigs to 5. :D Jaguar should be fking sweet now, its like a little Vagabond... with extra midslot to ECM-***** with. ;D That shivers me timbers. This patchnotes = goodness. \o/ Always nice to see some c'raptastic ships be turned into something very useful. The age of the Typhoon is upon us... Minmatar 4tw? Its about frickin time Mr. Bigglesworth
Astrum Ludus	Posted - 2006.05.31 16:35:00 - [209] The Amarr problem is not that it has no variety, it's that they suck at what they do. I don't want to use f'ing missiles just to have ships that perform, hence, I am not in a Raven.
Wizie	Posted - 2006.05.31 16:35:00 - [210] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Wizie Would appreciate some reduction on fitting reqs of 720 howitzers and clip size of 1400 arti. psst, we want to increase the clip size of 1400mm, not decrease it ;) o.O LIES!!! Wonder if firing direct from cargo would work better? :p Load time = gun rof = OWNAGE! only for 1400s ----------------- Sig removed by some noob

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