The fact that these missions can only be received as part of the random level 4 security mission pool should prevent them from being too farmable.

These look like they could actually be fun. Will they be available on SiSi for testing before hyperion goes live?

If you're worried about farming you could instead limit them like you do with epics. Why make people sit through a bunch of, arguably, uninteresting and seen-before pve content before getting a luck-of-the-draw to get to new and exciting pve content?

Will we be able to neut these frigates? Last I checked, all npcs had infinite cap.

I'm looking forward to checking these out. It's a great concept. I hope they turn out to be as fun as they sound.


I was wondering the same thing.

If you're worried about farming you could instead limit them like you do with epics. Why make people sit through a bunch of, arguably, uninteresting and seen-before pve content before getting a luck-of-the-draw to get to new and exciting pve content?

That's the plan, and we'll be creating a test server feedback thread for them when they do.

Another alternative is for enemies in lvl4 missions to drop "passkeys" to these hidden pirate lairs where players can warp to and do them separately. These keys can even be sold on the market.

Why not make this part of bonus objectives of all lvl4 missions with the acceleration gate on the last room? This way people can still get the normal rewards and attempt the frigate boss fight at the end?

Another alternative is for enemies in lvl4 missions to drop "passkeys" to these hidden pirate lairs where players can warp to and do them separately. These keys can even be sold on the market.

...These missions pit you against pirate GÇ£BurnersGÇ¥, pilots trained by the five major pirate factions that have set off on their own and become a seemingly omnipresent danger to shipping in the clusterGÇÖs shipping.

Neither Ishkurs nor Hawks or Harpies will be able to use those AccGates. T1 Frigs only (+ faction variants)

Burner Missions can only be completed in frigate-sized ships. The pirate Burners operate from bases protected by acceleration gates that only allow access for frigates. All types of frigates (Tech One, Tech Two and Faction) can enter the bases.

These NPCs (like most NPCs in the game) will be using the sleeper AI. Their vulnerability to ewar will be similar to that of existing NPCs.

i really like it so far but i don't think it was a good idea to add them to normal lvl4 agents.

We look forward to hearing your feedback on these mission in the feedback thread. What are you looking forward to most about these Burner Missions? What do you think could be improved about the concept? What kinds of new mission types would you like to see us add next?

Just to explain a little on how these will be testable. The current solution we are working towards is temporarily disabling all other level 4 missions on Sisi, so that these are the only ones available. For those of you who aren't standings-positive enough to get level 4 missions (and for everyone else!) we will be reworking the moveme bot to provide faction standings. This might even stick around if there's enough interest in it, but the missions will be restored following the Hyperion release.

Burner Missions pit you against a single enemy NPC. This NPC is an extremely powerful frigate with stats based on those of a player flying a pirate frigate with officer/deadspace gear, pirate implants, and [b]command links[/b[

These NPCs (like most NPCs in the game) will be using the sleeper AI. Their vulnerability to ewar will be similar to that of existing NPCs.

Will neuts be effective on them?

also, sig tanking is actually speed tanking. or speed tanking is sig tanking. you cannot separate these things.

Since they use faction and deadspace mods, does that mean those will drop?

The Burners also have a very small chance to drop valuable faction modules.

I definitely understand the desire of many people to be able to run these missions at will, but unfortunately these missions will simply be too good to make them available all the time. I really like the idea of doing something with long cooldowns like the epic arcs in a future iteration, thanks for that feedback.

Edit: why not make them vulnerable to every type of e-war available?

I definitely understand the desire of many people to be able to run these missions at will, but unfortunately these missions will simply be too good to make them available all the time. I really like the idea of doing something with long cooldowns like the epic arcs in a future iteration, thanks for that feedback.

Neuting these NPCs won't have any effect, unfortunately.
.

The Burners also have a very small chance to drop valuable faction modules.

There will be no standings penalty for turning down or failing these missions.

I think you are missing the point. We don't want to run them for the better rewards. We want to run them because we can't take running another lvl 4 mission. Of course give us a week or 2 and we'll be bored out of our skullswith the 5 variations.

What I would enthusiastically support:

- More variations in burner rats (more like 50 rather than 5).
- Special agents who only give this type of mission.

Otherwise, I have no interest in running the boring normal L4 missions just to have a small chance of drawing a burner mission from the pool. With more variations in the burner rat type, you'd also have to actually think carefully about what ship to bring, rather than "oh look, the dramiel burner again, let me get my Vengeance". It would also give people who only do frigate pvp an income stream apart from faction warfare plexing.

They're different when you shoot missiles at them.

Neuting these NPCs won't have any effect, unfortunately.

Although these NPCs will be using some improved tactics compared to other NPCs they still rely on the same back-end. However simultaneous work is being performed on improving our NPC and content creation tools, and these missions will serve as excellent testing grounds for future NPC advancements.

I definitely understand the desire of many people to be able to run these missions at will, but unfortunately these missions will simply be too good to make them available all the time. I really like the idea of doing something with long cooldowns like the epic arcs in a future iteration, thanks for that feedback.

This is a great idea, but why start with level 4 missions and vets. It's the new players that need this sort of pvp style missions.

The tutorial mission needs include pvp and pvp like missions. Ideally these should include:

- Sending the newbie into a number of simulated gate camps resembling LS and NS.

- Sending the newbie into a mission where they have to fit a scram, and prevent the NPC from warping out.

- Sending the newbie into a mission where they need to fit a warp stab.

- Sending the newbie into a Faction Warfare area and make them run a FW site or 2.

- Sending a newbie to free a trapped Dread. The newbie has to go in and jam/web/drain/... the NPC(s) to free the dread.

- Give them a newbie Dread let them blap a bunch of structures, and battleships then die in a blaze of glory.

- Give the newbie a newbie battlecruiser, battleship, or bomber for a taste of the end game, and let them keep it at the end of their mission.

(Note that newbie dreads canGÇÖt use jump drives nor can they fit through a Wormhole. So if they take the ship and not do the mission they have a newbie Dread stuck in a newbie system.)

This gives the newbie a taste of PVP, and Faction Warfare. Faction Warfare is IMNSHO the best intro into pvp, and LS/NS/WH. You can easily make enough isk to support a PVP habit.

The tutorial needs to teach concepts like scrams, bubbles, and gate camps. They need to learn to learn more than just mining and missions. They need to lose ships, and have their 1st LS experience not be losing their hard earned mission running ship to a gate camp.

If you're worried about farming you could instead limit them like you do with epics. Why make people sit through a bunch of, arguably, uninteresting and seen-before pve content before getting a luck-of-the-draw to get to new and exciting pve content?

I would be very careful regarding having deadspace modules drop from lvl 4 missions... Slippery slope

I would be very careful regarding having deadspace modules drop from lvl 4 missions... Slippery slope

if you're sitting perfectly still, yes.

Signature tanking is when signature is primary in saving you (dodging damage by being small, inherently small things tend to be fast). Typically relies on not getting hit/receiving a tiny % of the damage by being so small.

Speed tanking is when speed is primary in saving you. It's kiting to the extent that your sheer speed is what keeps you alive, nothing is able to get in range to hit you. The signatur aspect doesn't play in so much (see, MWD Navy Omen. Hardly sig tanking).

Both Signature and Speed tanking can use armor/shield improvements, most often repairs, but those repairs simply deal with what small % of damage is left. Their primary tank is the signature or speed. The difference is most pronounced at the cruiser level, orbiting a battleship up close vs outranging other cruisers from a distance.

The fact that these missions can only be received as part of the random level 4 security mission pool should prevent them from being too farmable.

Will the NPC have a CS or T3 somewhere on-grid that I can kill?

Neuting these NPCs won't have any effect, unfortunately.

Although these NPCs will be using some improved tactics compared to other NPCs they still rely on the same back-end. However simultaneous work is being performed on improving our NPC and content creation tools, and these missions will serve as excellent testing grounds for future NPC advancements.

I definitely understand the desire of many people to be able to run these missions at will, but unfortunately these missions will simply be too good to make them available all the time. I really like the idea of doing something with long cooldowns like the epic arcs in a future iteration, thanks for that feedback.

and you've just made them, useless, and ****** content.

if i'm doing level 4 missions, it ain't in a goddamn frigate. it's in a ship that can't do them, it'll get instantly declined and disregarded.

Only five different opponents? I like the concept, but the whole fact of having these missions inside the regular level 4 pool makes it soooo uninteresting.

I don't want to grind stupid missions just to have a fun one from time to time.

Creating new content and integrating it to 11-years-old, broken and boring content, is very, VERY dissapointing. We would be better off without burner missions an with a brand new PvE system that actually rewards teamplay.

I really like this new direction for PvE content. Two things concern me:

1. As everyone and their grandmother's cat has already said, I would prefer this to be a separate agent system as opposed to having to grind the grindy level 4 content to get to the interesting stuff.

Pfft I know, right? Who owns more than one spaceship? Geez CCP stop failing.

Five missions means that if it was a specific agent that only gave these missions it would have a much higher rate of burnout.

If you want to run these but cannot be bothered to grind L4's to get it then make friends with someone who would otherwise toss the mission to the side because they cannot afford two ships. (looking at you, DS) They lead you to the site and then you run it. Dagan was made to give people a reason to get help. This is, possibly, another similar case.

PvE content, as so many of you complain, has been ignored for too long. So they do something, something new. Be happy. Try it and then campaign for more of the same if you like it.

(If only hisec and PvE had some guy who represented them) Me

m

Five missions means that if it was a specific agent that only gave these missions it would have a much higher rate of burnout.

If you want to run these but cannot be bothered to grind L4's to get it then make friends with someone who would otherwise toss the mission to the side because they cannot afford two ships. (looking at you, DS) They lead you to the site and then you run it. Dagan was made to give people a reason to get help. This is, possibly, another similar case.

PvE content, as so many of you complain, has been ignored for too long. So they do something, something new. Be happy. Try it and then campaign for more of the same if you like it.

(If only hisec and PvE had some guy who represented them) Me

m

Oh, lovely. So I'll have to grind a bunch of boring missions to get access to an interesting frigate mission? Well, my anticipation of this interesting new content just went down the drain. :(

Why can't you just make them give roughly the same ISK/hour rewards as regular L4 missions and make them directly requestable from standard L4 agents? Then the battleship L4 grinders can take their battleship missions and I can play around with my Tristan or Wolf vs a single or couple advanced rats?

it's not about "not being bothered" or "not affording" anything.

the demographic for l4 missions is a battleship. the demographic for these is a frigate.
the two are chalk and cheese. that's why it's a dumb implementation of the idea.

it's not about "not being bothered" or "not affording" anything.

the demographic for l4 missions is a battleship. the demographic for these is a frigate.
the two are chalk and cheese. that's why it's a dumb implementation of the idea.

I don't know if you run missions, Dave, but when I do I slowly build a stable of ships in that hub so I can run the specifics (Like a cruiser well tanked for the Recon 3/3 L4 mission) and I also keep a fast ship to commute to other things/places. Adding a good frigate or two to that stable will be just fine with me. Is it an extra expense? Yes, but one I am willing to pay for some variety

m

although, i guess ccp already know most people will skip them because of the bad implementation, and that's why there's no standing penalty for skipping over them.

Nothing about this arrangement strikes me as permanent. It's more like, "here, we're trying these out. if you like them, run them and tell us what you think."

From a development POV, there's no reason to build out a whole new interface to accommodate 5 new missions that still run on the old AI, while they're building out a whole new system underneath it, so they didn't do that.

We look forward to hearing your feedback on these mission in the feedback thread. What are you looking forward to most about these Burner Missions? What do you think could be improved about the concept? What kinds of new mission types would you like to see us add next?

As awesome as the idea is, I really don't think they'll be used.

The people who will be attracted to this type of mission are, in my experience, the type who won't want to bother grinding out traditional L4's in all their mind-numbing tedium.

The people who like L4's or run them for ISK's sake will likely just skip them. due to the risk and skill involved, just skipping it and going back to blitzing Dread Pirate Scarlet for the seventh time that day is much easier...

i do occasionally run them, in 1 ship because they're so trivial.

and that ship sure as hell isn't a frigate.

that way i don't have load of ships stuck in the arse end of nowhere.

the point is, that you're aiming a mission designed for 1 demographic at a demographic who won't do it. it's not a case of what you'd personally do, nobody cares what you'd personally do.

ccp are trying to sell steaks to vegans here, essentially.

as a stand alone set of missions from separate agents these will be fun to run, randomly getting them while you're doing things that simply don't fit what these missions are aimed at... it's just nonsensical.

although, i guess ccp already know most people will skip them because of the bad implementation, and that's why there's no standing penalty for skipping over them.

These will suit me fine actually, I have standings for level IV missions but don't fly BS because I just don't like them. I'll be skipping the standard missions waiting for the burners.

then you won't have the standings for IV missions for very long. (or potentially wait days between missions if you wait for the 4hr timer to expire)

then again if ccp were to just implement them separately, that wouldn't be an issue.

then you won't have the standings for IV missions for very long. (or potentially wait days between missions if you wait for the 4hr timer to expire)

then again if ccp were to just implement them separately, that wouldn't be an issue.

*edit: damn spellcheck telling me I'm fly frogs when I'm flying frigs! Pfff!

I am pretty sure the main goal of this new mission line is to reach out to people who have locked themselves into leveling their raven. You won't reach these people if you don't put it right under their nose, breaking up the grind.

green

Exactly, I think a lot of the critical comments so far are because it isn't clear who these missions are aimed at. If it is the hard core L4 mission runners who are thinking that they don't know how to do PvP, this is a nice easy way to get them involved with some setpiece scenarios.

Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out.

Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk.

If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that.

Wait wait wait, so you want us, the capsuleers who are inexplicably bound by CONCORD's law and get an ass kicking the moment we over step, to fight and kill a bunch of terrorists who have managed to elude CONCORD and are using better equipment then even we have access to?

In any realistic scenario anyone would take two seconds to think that over and say HELL NO. But in this case, I think it's just another piece of bad story writing. All is good. (Really, put some more effort into decent background stories for game mechanics).

As far as the gameplay itself goes, I'm sure we all like the addition of new missions, but this is once again more static content that is able to be mapped and countered to perfection each and every time. Hell, the dev blog already gives a neat little list of exactly what each mission's dangers are. It will take 1 week tops before someone has all the details of each Burner written down and mapped out.

The reason missions in general are boring is not because there aren't enough different ones, but because it's the same stuff each and ever single time. The rats are always the same. The method of attack is always the same. The incoming damage is always the same. All you have to do to beat a mission is do the exact same thing you did last time.

If you want to improve missions and PVE content in general, start working on dynamic missions that change ever so slightly each time they are ran. Dynamic rats, dynamic triggers, dynamic damage and dynamic stats. That way at least there's still some challenge instead of being able to find every single piece of information on a website.

Of course a system like that takes time to program and stuff, I get that. But this basically goes for everything in EVE; make it less static.

They're different when you shoot missiles at them.

Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out.

Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk.

If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that.

Just to explain a little on how these will be testable. The current solution we are working towards is temporarily disabling all other level 4 missions on Sisi, so that these are the only ones available. For those of you who aren't standings-positive enough to get level 4 missions (and for everyone else!) we will be reworking the moveme bot to provide faction standings. This might even stick around if there's enough interest in it, but the missions will be restored following the Hyperion release.

sure there's a reason; the reason is so you don't waste content putting it where players won't access it.

of the few people i've spoken to since i got home from work who were interested in these missions, they've pretty much all lost interest when i told them you have to mindlessly grind l4s until the rng gods let you have a go at one of these new ones.

Ziggy star dust knows all about "speed" tanking

Rocket man:

She packed my bags last night pre-flight
Zero hour nine a.m.
And I'm gonna be high as a kite by then
I miss the earth so much I miss my wife
It's lonely out in space
On such a timeless flight

And I think it's gonna be a long long time
Till touch down brings me round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Oh no no no I'm a rocket man
Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone

Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
In fact it's cold as hell
And there's no one there to raise them if you did
And all this science I don't understand
It's just my job five days a week
A rocket man, a rocket man

And I think it's gonna be a long long time...

Burner Missions are 100% optional. There will be no standings penalty for turning down or failing these missions. Your friendly neighborhood security agent knows that not every capsuleer will have the equipment or skills to take on these missions and wonGÇÖt be offended if you decline.

As awesome as the idea is, I really don't think they'll be used.

The people who will be attracted to this type of mission are, in my experience, the type who won't want to bother grinding out traditional L4's in all their mind-numbing tedium.

The people who like L4's or run them for ISK's sake will likely just skip them. due to the risk and skill involved, just skipping it and going back to blitzing Dread Pirate Scarlet for the seventh time that day is much easier.

They need to be their own brand of mission, able to be done without having to deal with the existing missions which are an exercise in pressing F1 more than they are anything else. I think a lot of people will try them out initially, but after the new feature smell wears off, they'll fall to the wayside.

Perhaps reserve the Burners as "boss fights" for a new strain of mission, and traditional missions of this strain and pockets leading up to the Burner itself would contain less powerful variants of the Burners. 2-4 per pocket, still powerful, and still capable of causing a player to evaluate each mission and situation from a tactical perspective, and not from a "What damage type?" perspective.

+1. Step in the right direction.

Gain them randomly from doing L4s? No this is a terrible idea, a lot of L4 runners dont want them and most who want burner missions dont want L4s at all.

Best solution is definitely to drop keys or similar in L4s that can be sold on market and turned in to a agent to gain a burner mission. This gives those who does L4s the option between isk or burner while those who want to farm them the ability to do it unlimited while still having it regulated by market cost.

and you've just made them, useless, and ****** content.

if i'm doing level 4 missions, it ain't in a goddamn frigate. it's in a ship that can't do them, it'll get instantly declined and disregarded.

either make them an alternative, or don't bother. just adding in missions i can't complete in my normal mission boat, to my normal mission agent is just another mission that i instantly disregard just like anything in low sec, more than 3 jumps away, or incurs faction standing losses.

on the bright side, at least you know it's a dumb idea and aren't imposing standing losses for your terrible implementation of what could have been an amazing addition to eve.

Yup, as expected, pvp style mission farms for wholers, lowsequers and of course those beloved nullbears. Not something your normal carebear would be interested in running. This idea ranks right up there with the whole lot of distribution missions some dumb@$$ decide to unleash on us a few years back to great fanfare and look how well that idea turned out.

Just out of curiosity, what are the rewards? One million isk and another million isk bonus to risk a 4 billion isk frigate? Are you guys really that interested in creating isk sinks for plex? What will the bad guys be dropping, officer/deadspace loot or tech 1 garbage? Don't forget that in their wisdom the geniuses that come up with this stuff decided to take away pirate faction loot from missions because the nullbear BWAAAAmbulance made the rounds whining to anyone that would listen that carebears made too much isk.

If this is the new direction pve is taking then, %$#@) that.

If you are running Level 4s you should already have a few ships laying about that you no longer use anymore, or at least be able to pick something up with the amount of ISK that you have from your other level 4s. If you can't do it then you cancel the mission like any other mission that you don't want to do. Just like allot of people currently do with ones that you have to shoot other Empire Faction ships in.

CCP constantly trying to force PvE players into doing PvP

i do occasionally run them, in 1 ship because they're so trivial.

and that ship sure as hell isn't a frigate.

that way i don't have load of ships stuck in the arse end of nowhere.

the point is, that you're aiming a mission designed for 1 demographic at a demographic who won't do it. it's not a case of what you'd personally do, nobody cares what you'd personally do.

ccp are trying to sell steaks to vegans here, essentially.

as a stand alone set of missions from separate agents these will be fun to run, randomly getting them while you're doing things that simply don't fit what these missions are aimed at... it's just nonsensical.

although, i guess ccp already know most people will skip them because of the bad implementation, and that's why there's no standing penalty for skipping over them.

It's about time they try to make PvE more like real fighting instead of just farming a thousand red crosses. But this will be interesting, since one would need fairly expensive frigates to kill these things, not to mention boosts.

So it would be interesting to see the level of reward that these provide, since they're invariably more risky than typical PvE.

Oh, and watch the Daredevil's price skyrocket, since it will be a fairly good way to beat about half of these.

The idea is a good one and these would certainly mix things up a bit, but it might be the nail in the coffin of 1v1 PVP.

then you won't have the standings for IV missions for very long. (or potentially wait days between missions if you wait for the 4hr timer to expire)

then again if ccp were to just implement them separately, that wouldn't be an issue.

For those of you who aren't standings-positive enough to get level 4 missions (and for everyone else!) we will be reworking the moveme bot to provide faction standings. This might even stick around if there's enough interest in it, but the missions will be restored following the Hyperion release.

if you're sitting perfectly still, yes.

Interesting. A few suggestions:

1) You should never need to tell players how the Burners will be fit and how they will fight. Players will figure that out for themselves quickly enough and post/share the information on how to fight them.

I would suggest making so that these NPCs have to be pointed.

They should be able to try to warp out when in difficulty (structure damage?).

Once the NPC warps off:

a) the mission is failed

b) the site collapses and re-spawns.

You could also implement Warp-Off routines into the AI, like switching to full neuting power and pulling range with webs and scrams in order to warp off.

The true difference between PVE and PVP is that human opponents have a survival instinct, while NPCs don't: make NPCs fear for their lives, for once.

New content.
New PVE content.
New PVE content that high sec players can get involved in on a solo basis and enjoy.

I am shocked.
Very pleasantly shocked.

Maybe there is hope yet.

I just hope the rewards are in line with the ISK / hour of regular L4 missions.

I would suggest making so that these NPCs have to be pointed.

They should be able to try to warp out when in difficulty (structure damage?).

Once the NPC warps off:

a) the mission is failed

b) the site collapses and re-spawns.

You could also implement Warp-Off routines into the AI, like switching to full neuting power and pulling range with webs and scrams in order to warp off.

The true difference between PVE and PVP is that human opponents have a survival instinct, while NPCs don't: make NPCs fear for their lives, for once.

Here is a run down on the Burner Ships and which ships should be fielded against them.

*This is just an assumptive list and will not represent each Capsuleer's choice of ship.

Serpentis Burner

- Cruor, Daredevil
- Any T2 Frigate


Angel Burner

- Cruor, Daredevil
- Any T2 Frigate
- Crucifier, Condor, Griffin, Maulus, Tristan, Atron, Slasher

Guristas Burner

- Worm
-Maulus, Griffin, Crucifier, Enyo, Iskhur,
-Jaguar, Harpy, Retribution

Sansha Burner

-Daredevil, Cruor
-Hawk, Vengeance
Inquisitor, Heron, Punisher, Incursus, Bantam, Navitas, Tormentor, Griffin, Burst

Blood Raider

- Succubus, Garmur, Cruor
- Any T2 Frigate

Or, you know, a worm for all of the above. Blood burner might give it a problem, but fit a cap booster and youre fine.

Some of us like fun, you know?

Just to explain a little on how these will be testable. The current solution we are working towards is temporarily disabling all other level 4 missions on Sisi, so that these are the only ones available. For those of you who aren't standings-positive enough to get level 4 missions (and for everyone else!) we will be reworking the moveme bot to provide faction standings. This might even stick around if there's enough interest in it, but the missions will be restored following the Hyperion release.

"Burner Missions are 100% optional. "

You are a waste of forum space.

Neuting these NPCs won't have any effect, unfortunately.

Although these NPCs will be using some improved tactics compared to other NPCs they still rely on the same back-end. However simultaneous work is being performed on improving our NPC and content creation tools, and these missions will serve as excellent testing grounds for future NPC advancements.

with stats based on those of a player flying a pirate frigate with officer/deadspace gear, pirate implants, and command links

you realise of course that the amount of turrets on an NPC ship has absolutely no effect on its damage right?

- These missions should take place over a wider geographical area than most missions do. Travelling 6j for one of these isn't onerous as you will be in a frigate. Again, this gets players into areas that are unfamiliar and new, and often will send highsec players into lowsec in a ship they can afford to lose.

this isnt something you run in cheap frigs, and if they end up in low sec they will just be declined.

many level 4 mission runners have high frig, HAC and BS skills and will want to run these.

With the Hyperion release to be published in August 26th we will see a new kind of Level 4 Missions. In these new missions you can only use frigate sized ships and have to fight a single strong NPC that has some nasty tricks up his sleeves.

Those new type of missions, the so called "Burner" missions, will be the ideal playground for people who want to tinker around and find the optimal ship setup and strategy to be used in a good challenge.

Read more about which NPCs you can expect, why and how they pose a challenge and what you can gain from these missions in CCP Fozzie's latest dev blog Introducing Burner Missions.

As awesome as the idea is, I really don't think they'll be used.

The people who will be attracted to this type of mission are, in my experience, the type who won't want to bother grinding out traditional L4's in all their mind-numbing tedium.

The people who like L4's or run them for ISK's sake will likely just skip them. due to the risk and skill involved, just skipping it and going back to blitzing Dread Pirate Scarlet for the seventh time that day is much easier.

They need to be their own brand of mission, able to be done without having to deal with the existing missions which are an exercise in pressing F1 more than they are anything else. I think a lot of people will try them out initially, but after the new feature smell wears off, they'll fall to the wayside.

Perhaps reserve the Burners as "boss fights" for a new strain of mission, and traditional missions of this strain and pockets leading up to the Burner itself would contain less powerful variants of the Burners. 2-4 per pocket, still powerful, and still capable of causing a player to evaluate each mission and situation from a tactical perspective, and not from a "What damage type?" perspective.

+1. Step in the right direction.

You know these are gonna get farmed to death by people with uber high faction standings and thus can reject mission after mission(like ME) and who dual/triple box (like me) or isboxer.

Just so yall know

You want, like, a parade?

I'ma parade that isk sir!

Even Assault Frigates are much easier to move 6j than any battleship, so the distance can safely be increased slightly over regular L4 missions.

And yeah, unless you give the player a way to enter lowsec that will deposit them in a semi-random location in the adjacent lowsec, people won't go.

So just confirming you are pretty much saying that we will likely see frigates with 7 guns AND nuets that will be able to permanently run both neuts and personal rep 100% of the time. Yay incursion rats that we have to take down with frigates!!!! Will the also follow the same range limitations? Or are their rockets going to still hit me from 50k..ect (i'm looking at you 150k torp NPC raven's)



Sooo, its a Dramiel that will have both guns AND missiles. (with its 3 high slots)
And it will be shield tanked, WITH both "a" web and scram. which will likely have a prop mod. (with its 4 mids)

Plus who knows what the ungodly agility (among other stats) these ships will be given to allow them to fill the 'roles'

How can you boast that these ships yet still have the same old broken AI that puts twice as many guns as can fit on the hull, (and who knows how far off the 'mid' and 'low' count truly is)

Instead of putting something that could potentially be awesome and squishing it into a very broken system...here's a novel idea...

FIX THE HORRIDLY BROKEN SYSTEM FIRST....then you won't have to go back and re-do everything a second time to reballance everything once the NPC system is finally fixed.

1) First of all, I don't think the mission text should offer much, if any, detail about the target, such as their ammo type and combat strategy. Shouldn't these be learned by experience? Doesn't giving this information before hand already give away most of the content of these missions? Immediately, players can EFT fits that will likely counter these shipsGÇöshouldn't there be some mystery?

2) Will the Burners warp away if they get into hull and are not scrammed?They shouldGÇöfailure to point/scram these ships should typically result in the loss of the mission insofar as they should leave (like any decent pilot would!) if not pinned down. If these targets do not need to be pointed etc. these missions will likely be very easy. I think these missions should be on the harder side, as opposed to easily farmable (like essentially most of EVE's PVE).

I do L4s and I'd do frigate missions any day, (in fact I would rather do them if they earn isk). Demographic doesn't matter, people use BSes out of necessity, not out of "loving using BSes only"