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Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:17:00 - [301] Originally by: xeom Jim if you can shield tank(the best) and still have room for a MWD and scrabler or web its overpowered.Its something every shield tanker suffers from,just becuase you got it doesnt not exempt you from it. Bull**** tbh. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:19:00 - [302] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: xeom Jim if you can shield tank(the best) and still have room for a MWD and scrabler or web its overpowered.Its something every shield tanker suffers from,just becuase you got it doesnt not exempt you from it. Bull**** tbh. Please show me any shield tanker t1 that can tank and mwd/scramb. A real shield tank please. If you do i will submit and agree that it infact needs 7 mid slots. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Wrayeth PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:20:00 - [303] Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/07/2006 16:22:12 Originally by: xeom Jim if you can shield tank(the best) and still have room for a MWD and scrabler or web its overpowered.Its something every shield tanker suffers from,just becuase you got it doesnt not exempt you from it. I'm not Jim, but you couldn't be more wrong. See, you're forgetting something: the other shield tankers are MISSILE BOATS. Yes, that's right - MISSILE BOATS. You know, the guys who don't need to worry about MWD to get into range, or webs to hit their target in the first place? I should know - I have Caldari freakin' battleship 5. Turret boats need a MWD and web in addition to the scrambler (missile boat shield tanks can generally spare 1 slot for a scrambler, even the raven). -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:22:00 - [304] All i see on that page jim is talk about the Hyperion.What part are you talking about? CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:23:00 - [305] Edited by: Sarmaul on 26/07/2006 16:24:31 Edited by: Sarmaul on 26/07/2006 16:23:41 Originally by: xeom Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: xeom Jim if you can shield tank(the best) and still have room for a MWD and scrabler or web its overpowered.Its something every shield tanker suffers from,just becuase you got it doesnt not exempt you from it. Bull**** tbh. Please show me any shield tanker t1 that can tank and mwd/scramb. A real shield tank please. If you do i will submit and agree that it infact needs 7 mid slots. What is a "real shield tank"? Edit: Btw, Cyclone. In fact, seeing as the Maelstrom is based of the Cyclone, it should be a shield tanking mwd tacking thingy. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:24:00 - [306] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 16:24:29 --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tyler Lowe Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:25:00 - [307] I was so looking forward to this tier 3 ship, and now that I see it's a shield tanking Apoc with projectiles, it does nothing much for me. I don't doubt it'll have it's uses, probably mostly sitting on gates popping passersby while it permatanks gate guns. I had hoped for a toned down Marchariel, but instead we get an oversized Cyclone. The 8 turrets are nice, we'll see if it has the grid to actually fit 8 1400mm or if the next batch of whine threads will be on how you can only fit 7 guns, and the Tempest is therefore outdamaging this slow, ponderous addition to the lineup. As far as the rate of fire bonus goes, I've said it before, and I'll repeat it here, if the ship uses projectiles, and it's "damage" bonus is rate of fire, it needs a built in tracking mod. I'm not condemning the ship before seeing final stats, but it's not really in line, from what little we've been told (subject to change at that) with what I had hoped to see. J.A.F.O.
Wrayeth PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:25:00 - [308] Originally by: xeom Please show me any shield tanker t1 that can tank and mwd/scramb. A real shield tank please. If you do i will submit and agree that it infact needs 7 mid slots. Shield tankers do not need a MWD. They're always in range. Short range turret ships are not. However, here's a raven with a scrambler that can wtfpwn anything from HACs to assault frigs to other battleships: 6 siege II 2 medium nos (ghoul or better, for CPU) 1 XL C5L shield booster 1 faint 20km scrambler 1 heavy electrochem cap injector 1 shield boost amp 2 invuln field II 3 ballistic control II 1 RCU II 1 coprocessor II -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:28:00 - [309] Originally by: xeom All i see on that page jim is talk about the Hyperion.What part are you talking about? Actually it doesnt really matter. One goonfleet member have made a excel sheet you can download which shows that Maelstrom is only good at tanking, while the rest of the ships are dps monsters. Later in the thread DigitalCommunist says he feels Maelstrom is the only balanced ship of the 4 new ones, and that Rokh and Abaddon are horribly overpowered and Hyperion is useless. Im not saying they are right, but if they are, you are picking on the wrong ship here mate. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:33:00 - [310] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/07/2006 16:22:12 Originally by: xeom Jim if you can shield tank(the best) and still have room for a MWD and scrabler or web its overpowered.Its something every shield tanker suffers from,just becuase you got it doesnt not exempt you from it. I'm not Jim, but you couldn't be more wrong. See, you're forgetting something: the other shield tankers are MISSILE BOATS. Yes, that's right - MISSILE BOATS. You know, the guys who don't need to worry about MWD to get into range, or webs to hit their target in the first place? I should know - I have Caldari freakin' battleship 5. Turret boats need a MWD and web in addition to the scrambler (missile boat shield tanks can generally spare 1 slot for a scrambler, even the raven). Considering a 3xInvi 1xBooster-XL 1xAmp 1xCap booster Which i believe is the best tank a raven can ever hope to fit.You would have to drop the amp to fit a scrambler.Fine i made a sacrifice and now can hold my target down. So why shouldn't the minmatar one have to make some sacrifices?Lets take a closer look. 3xInvi field 1xBooster-XL 1xCap booster 1xMWD (better then the raven,built in faction amp remeber) Bam right there you should have a fine ship.Able to take on most battleships.And it really shouldn't have a problem hitting anything its own size. Now you say you wan't to hold you targets down,and hit smaller targets targets like cruisers and mabye even a frigate. Again you must do a trade of and drop a invi field.Sure you will have less tank but it balances out just like with the raven.And that my friends is what we like to call balance. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]

Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:35:00 - [311] Edited by: Sarmaul on 26/07/2006 16:36:14 The big difference is that a close range battleship needs a web. The Raven can switch to Javelin torps and own the majority of ships smaller. Where is the high tracking projectile ammo with a turret sig radius reduction? Oh yeah, there isn't one. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:46:00 - [312] Originally by: xeom Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/07/2006 16:22:12 Originally by: xeom Jim if you can shield tank(the best) and still have room for a MWD and scrabler or web its overpowered.Its something every shield tanker suffers from,just becuase you got it doesnt not exempt you from it. I'm not Jim, but you couldn't be more wrong. See, you're forgetting something: the other shield tankers are MISSILE BOATS. Yes, that's right - MISSILE BOATS. You know, the guys who don't need to worry about MWD to get into range, or webs to hit their target in the first place? I should know - I have Caldari freakin' battleship 5. Turret boats need a MWD and web in addition to the scrambler (missile boat shield tanks can generally spare 1 slot for a scrambler, even the raven). Considering a 3xInvi 1xBooster-XL 1xAmp 1xCap booster Which i believe is the best tank a raven can ever hope to fit.You would have to drop the amp to fit a scrambler.Fine i made a sacrifice and now can hold my target down. So why shouldn't the minmatar one have to make some sacrifices?Lets take a closer look. 3xInvi field 1xBooster-XL 1xCap booster 1xMWD (better then the raven,built in faction amp remeber) Bam right there you should have a fine ship.Able to take on most battleships.And it really shouldn't have a problem hitting anything its own size. Now you say you wan't to hold you targets down,and hit smaller targets targets like cruisers and mabye even a frigate. Again you must do a trade of and drop a invi field.Sure you will have less tank but it balances out just like with the raven.And that my friends is what we like to call balance. the raven, although suited for shield tank, is not a dedicated shield tanker. its bonuses apply to missiles, and it only has one less low slot than med slot, so it can be armor tanked. on the other hand, both the rokh and the maelstrom are dedicated shield tankers, just as much as the ferox and the cyclone, and that is why they need 7 medium slots, because given their bonus, they can not choose to armor tank like the raven (or at least, they can not do it without negating one of the bonuses). so stop all that cr*p about "OH NOES, THE MAELSTROM WILL HAVE A BETTER TANK THAN MY DEAR RAVEN!!!!!!NERFNERFNERFNERF!!!!" yes, it will, get over it. the raven is not a tank ship. Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:47:00 - [313] Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 26/07/2006 16:36:14 The big difference is that a close range battleship needs a web. The Raven can switch to Javelin torps and own the majority of ships smaller. Where is the high tracking projectile ammo with a turret sig radius reduction? Oh yeah, there isn't one. and a pvp ship needs a disrupter? Whats you're point exchange one think for the other.Better tank or holding onto targets/shooting smaller ones. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:50:00 - [314] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 16:50:46 I fully expect this ship to die to all the others on the test server. Not sure what it is about tanking that attracts attention, while the huge dps numbers of the other ships isnt as interesting. Maybe you feel this ship can tank the dps from the other new battleships...well. We'll see. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
arbitrary Bad luck Clover Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:51:00 - [315] Originally by: xeom :Xeom's raven: 3xInvi 1xBooster-XL 1xAmp 1xCap booster :Xeom's maelstrom: 3xInvi field 1xBooster-XL 1xCap booster 1xMWD :words: Again you must do a trade of and drop a invi field.Sure you will have less tank but it balances out just like with the raven.And that my friends is what we like to call balance. As Sarmaul pointed out the raven loads javelins and would be done with it. besides being able to shoot at any range, without tracking problems and being a cheaper ship. not to mention the tracking mods you would need for arties. ___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile.
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:51:00 - [316] Edited by: xeom on 26/07/2006 16:51:46 try not to freak out to much Apertotes. Considering the highest caldarie skill i have is frigate lvl 3,its not becuase i don't wan't "my" raven to be nerfed. I just think 7 slots would be to much.I mean if it goes threw cool a new ship to camp gates with(should be deady easy). CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Wrayeth PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:53:00 - [317] Originally by: xeom Considering a 3xInvi 1xBooster-XL 1xAmp 1xCap booster Which i believe is the best tank a raven can ever hope to fit.You would have to drop the amp to fit a scrambler.Fine i made a sacrifice and now can hold my target down. Why in the world would you drop the boost amp for the scrambler? The shield resist increase you're getting from teh third invulnerability field isn't enough to warrant fitting it in the first place - you'd be better off going with 2 invulns and a photon scattering in addition to the amp, if anything. Even assuming that, you'd be better off dropping the photon scattering than the boost amp, because you'd only be lowering your tank vs. EM damage as opposed to reducing your tanking ability vs. all damage types. Your basic premise is invalid - if you drop anything, you would need to drop the third invulnerability field (which should've been a photon scattering field, anyway). Of course, that was exactly what was listed in my setup. Quote: So why shouldn't the minmatar one have to make some sacrifices?Lets take a closer look. 3xInvi field 1xBooster-XL 1xCap booster 1xMWD (better then the raven,built in faction amp remeber) Bam right there you should have a fine ship.Able to take on most battleships.And it really shouldn't have a problem hitting anything its own size. Have you ever fired a turret? At all? I guarantee you it can't hit unwebbed battleships orbiting at 2500m or closer worth a damn, maybe even 5000m or closer. And hitting smaller ships? That's a total and complete joke, without a web. MISS MISS MISS MISS Wait...you're telling me that my battleship shouldn't be able to hit the smaller stuff at all in the first place? Tell that to the raven, or the blasterthron (which has the slots for a web, scrambler, MWD, and cap injector, plus an armor tank) or the 'geddon (which has the slots for web, scrambler, and cap injector, and doesn't need a MWD in the first place). And, again, you put on a third invulnerability field instead of a scrambler. If you PvP at all--which it looks like you do not--you'd realize that there's no point in even trying if you can't keep your target from warping off. Quote: Now you say you wan't to hold you targets down,and hit smaller targets targets like cruisers and mabye even a frigate. Again you must do a trade of and drop a invi field.Sure you will have less tank but it balances out just like with the raven.And that my friends is what we like to call balance. No, it doesn't, because then you're fitting a web and no scrambler, and your target warps off. You need both the web AND the scrambler, otherwise you might as well attack CONCORD, because the results will be the same - you losing. The same with the MWD - you need it to get in range to hit in the first place. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:53:00 - [318] Originally by: xeom I just think 7 slots would be to much.I mean if it goes threw cool a new ship to camp gates with(should be deady easy). Yeah, while the rest of the ships snipe the gates. Not really a big difference, is it. Besides, i think people will use this ship to snipe as well. Its just so much better than tanking sentries. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:54:00 - [319] You know, I haven't yet heard one good argument as to who it shouldn't get 8/7/4 other than the typical "meh meh meh it's not caldari so it can't have a good tank, dispite the devs saying that's the point of the ship". TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:56:00 - [320] Originally by: Sarmaul You know, I haven't yet heard one good argument as to who it shouldn't get 8/7/4 other than the typical "meh meh meh it's not caldari so it can't have a good tank, dispite the devs saying that's the point of the ship". It becomes 8/7/5 if its supposed to have 20 slots. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:58:00 - [321] Originally by: Sarmaul You know, I haven't yet heard one good argument as to who it shouldn't get 8/7/4 other than the typical "meh meh meh it's not caldari so it can't have a good tank, dispite the devs saying that's the point of the ship". I think it should. The ship race doesnt matter, if its a shield tanker its a shield tanker, but I also think the raven needs a 7th mid.
Wrayeth PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:59:00 - [322] Originally by: Sarmaul You know, I haven't yet heard one good argument as to who it shouldn't get 8/7/4 other than the typical "meh meh meh it's not caldari so it can't have a good tank, dispite the devs saying that's the point of the ship". True, that. The funny thing is, I'm Caldari and I have no problem with this--I even have Caldari battleship 5, own a siege launcher II BPO, etc. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:00:00 - [323] Originally by: Wrayeth His point is that you need BOTH the web and the scrambler. And, of course, you also need a MWD to get in range in the first place. Yes, this is true. But these things dont affect your tank at all. The mid slots are where all the utilities that you need go, yet Caldari have to put their tank there as well. So like i posted in the other maelstrom thread about slots, its really not right that you have to hurt your tank because you HAVE to fit a scrambler. heaven forbid you need something like a target painter, a web, or an ab/mwd.
Wrayeth PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:00:00 - [324] Originally by: Double TaP I think it should. The ship race doesnt matter, if its a shield tanker its a shield tanker, but I also think the raven needs a 7th mid. Yeah, a 7th mid would be nice, for sure, but only if you didn't lose a low for it. Or if you lost the low but gained enough CPU or grid that it didn't screw over the worthwhile torp setups. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:01:00 - [325] Wrayeth on the whole part about tanking the raven ill take you're word for it.Ive never flown a raven so i would have no idea.Just mounted what looked best to me at the time. Personaly i think nerf the raven and megas ablilty to hit smaller targets. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:02:00 - [326] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Double TaP I think it should. The ship race doesnt matter, if its a shield tanker its a shield tanker, but I also think the raven needs a 7th mid. Yeah, a 7th mid would be nice, for sure, but only if you didn't lose a low for it. Or if you lost the low but gained enough CPU or grid that it didn't screw over the worthwhile torp setups. QFT. I wouldn't even mind it losing low, although I wouldnt see why it would be necessary at all because it wouldn't give it anything special.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:03:00 - [327] Yeah, and i think this ship needs 7 lows too... for damage. The dps on this ship sucks so we need more low slots. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:04:00 - [328] Originally by: Wrayeth own a siege launcher II BPO, etc. Cheap rates for forum *****s? Torps 5 finishes tomorrow TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Wrayeth PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:04:00 - [329] Originally by: xeom Wrayeth on the whole part about tanking the raven ill take you're word for it.Ive never flown a raven so i would have no idea.Just mounted what looked best to me at the time. Personaly i think nerf the raven and megas ablilty to hit smaller targets. You would also need to nerf the ability of the typhoon, the tempest, the scorpion, the dominix, the 'geddon, and the apoc, because all of them can fit a good tank and still have the required midslot modules for short range fighting. Basically, you're saying nerf every battleship because they shouldn't be able to hit smaller targets at all. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:06:00 - [330] Tuxford hasnt even posted today... he said he would. He is probably just shaking his head at all this rabble rabble rabble going on. I wouldnt want his job. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate



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