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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:26:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: babylonstew
Originally by: Sarmaul
The complaint is that it can tank and gank and never miss.
ok, thats a fair point, but even with 6 meds, the new min bs will in fact out tank said raven wont it?
so you will in fact have for example, an extra invul field 30% more resists, or an extra boost amp, ungodly boost ammounts, or anything you like really, i just dont see its that bad if it 'only' has 6 meds, i really think 7 would make it slightly over powered in the tanking department.
personal opinion not flame ^^^
And the Rokh with 7 midslots will also out-tank the raven due to it's 25% resistance bonus. The devs have stated that the Minny tier3 is designed to run the biggest tank of them all, and the only way that's going to happen is if it gets 7 midslots. As has been stated by other people, give it 6 and you'll end up with an armour tank + ewar, thus wasting the bonus.
MWD (1)
Scrambler (2)
Web (3)
Cap Booster (4)
XL Booster (5)
Leaves it 1 slot for tanking unless you remove one of the needed modules (and as it is going to be quite sluggish it will definatly need that web, with no nos the tank won't hold without the cap booster, it needs some form of speed mod to get into range and the scrambler is self explanitory. By going 8/7/4 you force it to shield tank (the purpose of the ship) and put an end to it running a ****-poor armour tank as it won't have any slots for damage modules.
If the Minny t1/t2 battlecruisers can have the same amount of midslots as the Caldari ones, the tier3 BS damn well better have the same amount too.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Eximius Josari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:29:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Eximius Josari on 25/07/2006 22:33:06
Edited by: Eximius Josari on 25/07/2006 22:30:20
Originally by: Matsuo Masato
can someone caluclate what the stats one the best faction x-large booster with one boost amp and max skills?
2028.148 hp every 4 seconds with a full set of top Crystals, and the currently mythical X-Type Gist XL Booster and Gist Boost Amp.
2568.397 hp every 4 seconds with Pith X-Type XL Booster and Pith X-Type Amp.
You can run the numbers for boost calcs on a Cyclone, same boost bonus.
EDIT: One minute, running the numbers on Pith X-Type.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:38:00 -
[93]
Are any of the X-Type shield mods besides the Large Shield Booster actually in game yet?
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Matsuo Masato
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:42:00 -
[94]
gist b-type xlarge shield booster with one t1 shield boost amp and bs lvl 5 1030 hp every 4 secs if you ad a HG crystal set to that OMG
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Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:43:00 -
[95]
Originally by: babylonstew
Originally by: Sarmaul
The complaint is that it can tank and gank and never miss.
ok, thats a fair point, but even with 6 meds, the new min bs will in fact out tank said raven wont it?
so you will in fact have for example, an extra invul field 30% more resists, or an extra boost amp, ungodly boost ammounts, or anything you like really, i just dont see its that bad if it 'only' has 6 meds, i really think 7 would make it slightly over powered in the tanking department.
personal opinion not flame ^^^
No, the new Battleship wont be able to outtank the raven
for a gunship you need a tracking computer, or you wont do ****. Also a raven can decide range very easily and suffers no tracking problems.
Ever tried to hit something with howitzers from under 40km?
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:47:00 -
[96]
My point of view:
Crappy attempt to give matari a mission running ship.
Shield boosters are hardly fitted in PvP anyway, every bonus to them is quite wasted. Since they buffed large shield extenders, its all about passive tanks and EW for midslots.
Tempest is still better for most purposes, it needs less ammo, will be cheaper to fit (nice for fleets) and its faster (AC setups), also you will fit armor plates for fleets, so the shield boost bonus is sooooo wasted.
unless you want to carebaer around, there is no need to fly that ship. I really hoped for a double ROF bonus, making it a good DPS ship.
at least slotlayout must be 8/7/5
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
pennzoil
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:48:00 -
[97]
I think we are losing sight of what the minmatar are all about from the story line point of view. I started my eve life as a caldari due to ignorance but quickly switch to flying Minmatar ships as they embraced everything I love in a ship. Fast, Versatile, and pieced together.
I thought Minmatar ships were for living on the darker side of the law to pirates, smugglers and peddlers or illeagel goods. Also being enemies of Amarr I'm surprised we would choose to start specializing in shield tanking. Wouldn't slaves that are good with mechanics choose armor tanking some of the times. Check out Minmatars backstory sometime.
Also I don't think they would give use 7 mid slots as that would make to much sense.
What I would like to see
5% velocity
5% ROF
or
5% dam
some sort of active armor tank bonus (I don't want to be forced into shield tanking all the time as we weren't locked into shield tanking when I started training minmatar ships)
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:52:00 -
[98]
It's supposed to be ironic - the minmatar use shield technology when their racial enemy do mostly EM damage, while Amarr use armour technology when their racial enemy do mostly explosive damage :)
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:57:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Sarmaul
It's supposed to be ironic - the minmatar use shield technology when their racial enemy do mostly EM damage, while Amarr use armour technology when their racial enemy do mostly explosive damage :)
Of course theres tech 2 ships, where the amarr can't really damage the minmatar and the minmatar say "oh, ok, phased plasma ftw"
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Severa Crest
Railgun Voodoo II
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:04:00 -
[100]
slow minnie ships 4TL, I hope this heap gets changed.
PS - any other minnie pilots worried about the Hyperion?
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:05:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Severa Crest
Any other minnie pilots worried about the Hyperion?
I'm only worried if it gets into range or lands 0.0km away from me, as I should be.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:06:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Severa Crest
Any other minnie pilots worried about the Hyperion?
I'm only worried if it gets into range or lands 0.0km away from me, as I should be.
The only reason i see myself flying the hyperion, is all... about the slot layout and armor HP, speed and so on.
Otherwise, it's just a crappy megathron with less dronebay, less tracking and a 5th midslot, oh a Crappy vindicator!
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Severa Crest
Railgun Voodoo II
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:07:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Severa Crest
Any other minnie pilots worried about the Hyperion?
I'm only worried if it gets into range or lands 0.0km away from me, as I should be.
Well if its lighter than the megathron, its likely it'll be lighter than the tempest - probably more in line with the phoon. And its faster than the Mega. And then arm it with Null ammo.
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Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:07:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Severa Crest
slow minnie ships 4TL, I hope this heap gets changed.
PS - any other minnie pilots worried about the Hyperion?
Well, Im as worried as I only have gallente BS lvl4, think around christmas I will have 3 Bs lvl5 and 2 guns specs maxed out 
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:10:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 23:11:35
Quote:
2028.148 hp every 4 seconds with a full set of top Crystals, and the currently mythical X-Type Gist XL Booster and Gist Boost Amp.
2568.397 hp every 4 seconds with Pith X-Type XL Booster and Pith X-Type Amp.
You can run the numbers for boost calcs on a Cyclone, same boost bonus.
Pointless numbers really. How many people will have a full set of crystals...and even if they did, to take that into pvp... would require someone mad. Im not sure what the cost of a complete crystal set is, but isnt it like 3 billion or something?
Isnt a gist b-type shield booster like 584 hp/4 seconds? With minmatar bs at level 5, that would make it 803 hp every 4s with no amp. With a 30% standard amp, it becomes 1043 hp every 4s. And thats with a gist booster that cost 400 million isk.
Im not sure if my math is completely right, but i think it ends up at like 1000 hp per 4 seconds... the 2500 hp for 4 seconds is for the very rich. Thats unbeatable without nossing.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:12:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 23:11:35
Quote:
2028.148 hp every 4 seconds with a full set of top Crystals, and the currently mythical X-Type Gist XL Booster and Gist Boost Amp.
2568.397 hp every 4 seconds with Pith X-Type XL Booster and Pith X-Type Amp.
You can run the numbers for boost calcs on a Cyclone, same boost bonus.
Pointless numbers really. How many people will have a full set of crystals...and even if they did, to take that into pvp... would require someone mad. Im not sure what the cost of a complete crystal set is, but isnt it like 3 billion or something?
Isnt a gist b-type shield booster like 584 hp/4 seconds? With minmatar bs at level 5, that would make it 803 hp every 4s with no amp. With a 30% standard amp, it becomes 1043 hp every 4s. And thats with a gist booster that cost 400 million isk.
Im not sure if my math is completely right, but i think it ends up at like 1000 hp per 4 seconds... the 2500 hp for 4 seconds is for the very rich. Thats unbeatable without nossing.
its just a mission running BS nothing else.
Honestly, who will fit an active tank on a battleship?
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:12:00 -
[107]
With a Cap Booster it's pretty much unbeatable until you run out of charges :P
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:13:00 -
[108]
Just one thing about the people complaining about this BS being a shieldtanker and how it is removing flexibility:
Look at the minnie frigates and cruisers. Some are more suited to shieldtanks, some more suited to armortanks. Not with BSs, though. The Typhoon is an armortank. The Tempest can do both (although is usually used as armortank). From that viewpoint it's only logical, especially considering that flexibility is one of the strong points of minnie ships, that the tier 3 will be an shieldtank.
Being able to choose between an armortanking BS, a hybrid and a shieldtanking BS seems to me way more flexible than being able to choose between 2 armortanking BS and a hybrid.
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Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:14:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Aramendel
Just one thing about the people complaining about this BS being a shieldtanker and how it is removing flexibility:
Look at the minnie frigates and cruisers. Some are more suited to shieldtanks, some more suited to armortanks. Not with BSs, though. The Typhoon is an armortank. The Tempest can do both (although is usually used as armortank). From that viewpoint it's only logical, especially considering that flexibility is one of the strong points of minnie ships, that the tier 3 will be an shieldtank.
Being able to choose between an armortanking BS, a hybrid and a shieldtanking BS seems to me way more flexible than being able to choose between 2 armortanking BS and a hybrid.
Minmatar ships may have sometimes a decent ammount of midslots, but you dont shieldtank them
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Severa Crest
Railgun Voodoo II
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:15:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Severa Crest on 25/07/2006 23:15:28
Originally by: Sarmaul
With a Cap Booster it's pretty much unbeatable until you run out of charges :P
With the five slot tank, and a cap booster - leaves 1 slot for what exactly?
Edit - thats IF it gets 7 mids.
will be crap with arty, and crap with autos.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:15:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Nafri
Honestly, who will fit an active tank on a battleship?
Are you honestly telling me nobody fits active tanks on battleships?
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Valea Silpha
Cereal Killerz
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:23:00 -
[112]
The problem im seeing more than anything else (now im over it not being fast and autocannony) is that you can't kill a damn thing just by tanking it. And for that matter not being the best tank on the market. It all looks pretty good on paper, but its just not what we're about. It will run missions just fine. But i would never give up my tempy for one of these. I like that i can choose to armor or shield tank. I like that i can choose to be snipey or MWD of doom. I like that i get a double dose of damage bonus.
Line the maeltrom up against the Rokh, for example. The rokh will out tank it, there is no denying it. The rokh will also have range beyond anything achieveable by anything else. Now lets compare it to the Hyperion. The hyperion is a nasty piece of work, essentially a faster blasterthron, which will smoke our new chappy. Next against the abaddon... which is a choice between uber tank or uber gank. Im damned if the bloody ammar have a more versatile ship than we do.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing
<Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:24:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Aramendel on 25/07/2006 23:26:00
Originally by: Nafri
you fit an active tank on a vagabound?
And since when is a shieldtank automatically an active one?
On the Maelstrom it will be, mind you, but so what? Cyclones work just splendidly with an active tank.
Originally by: Valea Silpha
...Next against the abaddon... which is a choice between uber tank or uber gank. Im damned if the bloody ammar have a more versatile ship than we do.
The only way you will be able to use an Abaddon as uber tank is if you use projectiles on it. It won't be able to shoot and tank if it uses lasers.
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Valea Silpha
Cereal Killerz
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:25:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Nafri
you fit an active tank on a vagabound?
And since when is a shieldtank automatically an active one?
On the Maelstrom it will be, mind you, but so what? Cyclones work just splendidly with an active tank.
I think 'splendidly' is a bit of a stretch. They work pretty well, if you happen to have a shed load of nos.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing
<Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:25:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Nafri
you fit an active tank on a vagabound?
And since when is a shieldtank automatically an active one?
On the Maelstrom it will be, mind you, but so what? Cyclones work just splendidly with an active tank.
since I started talking about active shield tanks, somewhere in this thread
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:27:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Valea Silpha
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Nafri
you fit an active tank on a vagabound?
And since when is a shieldtank automatically an active one?
On the Maelstrom it will be, mind you, but so what? Cyclones work just splendidly with an active tank.
I think 'splendidly' is a bit of a stretch. They work pretty well, if you happen to have a shed load of nos.
cyclone works splendid in PvP? I have to see that.
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:27:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Valea Silpha
The problem im seeing more than anything else (now im over it not being fast and autocannony) is that you can't kill a damn thing just by tanking it. And for that matter not being the best tank on the market. It all looks pretty good on paper, but its just not what we're about. It will run missions just fine. But i would never give up my tempy for one of these. I like that i can choose to armor or shield tank. I like that i can choose to be snipey or MWD of doom. I like that i get a double dose of damage bonus.
Line the maeltrom up against the Rokh, for example. The rokh will out tank it, there is no denying it. The rokh will also have range beyond anything achieveable by anything else. Now lets compare it to the Hyperion. The hyperion is a nasty piece of work, essentially a faster blasterthron, which will smoke our new chappy. Next against the abaddon... which is a choice between uber tank or uber gank. Im damned if the bloody ammar have a more versatile ship than we do.
excactly
the tempest is better for shortrange, thats for sure. The ability to use cap neutralizers on your enemy is just devasting.
The mealstrom has no ulility slots, it needs 2 more turrets to achieve what the tempest can.
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Severa Crest
Railgun Voodoo II
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:28:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 25/07/2006 23:26:00
Originally by: Nafri
you fit an active tank on a vagabound?
And since when is a shieldtank automatically an active one?
On the Maelstrom it will be, mind you, but so what? Cyclones work just splendidly with an active tank.
Originally by: Valea Silpha
...Next against the abaddon... which is a choice between uber tank or uber gank. Im damned if the bloody ammar have a more versatile ship than we do.
The only way you will be able to use an Abaddon as uber tank is if you use projectiles on it. It won't be able to shoot and tank if it uses lasers.
Cyclone is the lightest and fastest ship in its class....
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:28:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Valea Silpha
The problem im seeing more than anything else (now im over it not being fast and autocannony) is that you can't kill a damn thing just by tanking it. And for that matter not being the best tank on the market. It all looks pretty good on paper, but its just not what we're about. It will run missions just fine. But i would never give up my tempy for one of these. I like that i can choose to armor or shield tank. I like that i can choose to be snipey or MWD of doom. I like that i get a double dose of damage bonus.
Line the maeltrom up against the Rokh, for example. The rokh will out tank it, there is no denying it. The rokh will also have range beyond anything achieveable by anything else. Now lets compare it to the Hyperion. The hyperion is a nasty piece of work, essentially a faster blasterthron, which will smoke our new chappy. Next against the abaddon... which is a choice between uber tank or uber gank. Im damned if the bloody ammar have a more versatile ship than we do.
Not giving up the tempy was exacly what the devs tried to do here. They didnt want to replace current ships. And they havent. All the older ships are still better at some things. We will just have more choices now.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:28:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Aramendel on 25/07/2006 23:31:23
Originally by: Nafri
since I started talking about active shield tanks, somewhere in this thread
Which I did not mention with one single word. Read what other people write, not only what you write.
Originally by: Nafri
cyclone works splendid in PvP? I have to see that.
Try the EVE TV of several tournament matches.
No "real PvP", I know, since no EW allowed. But you won't have "real PvP" by the time those ships will be released, too. Because ECM is next on Tux "to be looked at" list.
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