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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Mira Robinson
122
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:45:00 -
[601] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:If you don't want to get banned you have some very simple solutions. Stop making the focus of your gameplay hurting/angering/humiliating others. Tear collection is not a legitimate objective in Eve. Focus on accomplishing things that help you, not on accomplishing things that hurt others. Now, if in the process of helping yourself and you suicide gank or scam someone, and they get angry, that is fine. Just take your win and move on. Don't look to revel in the moment, collect tears, mock them, try to get them on coms, etc.... Just take your winning, give a GF and go. If the focus of your game is to see how mad you can make other people get, and what kind of reactions you can elicit, then yes, you are doing it wrong, and potentially could get banned. If you just focus on helping yourself, and don't engage with people you are harming, then no, you are not really at risk of a ban. To me that is a clear enough line already. So a ship is blown up. And the person who goes into a racist sexist homophobic etc rant and threatens to track people down, we keep him. But the guy having a laugh at this gross overreaction, he gets banned. That's a nice community you're building there. You just made me spit out my drink.
Because you were saying the Eve community was nice to begin with. Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.
It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance. |
evepal
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:45:00 -
[602] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:If you don't want to get banned you have some very simple solutions. Stop making the focus of your gameplay hurting/angering/humiliating others. Tear collection is not a legitimate objective in Eve. Focus on accomplishing things that help you, not on accomplishing things that hurt others. Now, if in the process of helping yourself and you suicide gank or scam someone, and they get angry, that is fine. Just take your win and move on. Don't look to revel in the moment, collect tears, mock them, try to get them on coms, etc.... Just take your winning, give a GF and go. If the focus of your game is to see how mad you can make other people get, and what kind of reactions you can elicit, then yes, you are doing it wrong, and potentially could get banned. If you just focus on helping yourself, and don't engage with people you are harming, then no, you are not really at risk of a ban. To me that is a clear enough line already.
Eloquently put.
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Maybe we should stop suicide ganking, scamming, and stealing if we want to be safe, then. Since if being incidentally connected to a harassment case is cause for a permanent ban, then obviously causing distress to another player of any kind is also grounds for a ban. Clearly we shouldn't do anything that has the potential to make someone upset.
Nice slippery slope fallacy! Loving this rhetoric try and warp some ramblings of construed logic to present a grounding to their point.
IIshira wrote: What you have is a bunch of carebears so happy to see CCP banning gankers. They're not worried about asking CCP what's can get you banned because they don't do anything other than PVE.
It's all good though. I'm actually going to dedicate another one of my pilots to ganking. I'll do my part to make sure Eve stays a PVP focused game. If I get banned for this then it wasn't a game I wanted to play anyway.
Yes, that's clearly what has been said. We could prevent crows all over America with the amount of strawman in this thread.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
47
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:46:00 -
[603] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Maybe we should stop suicide ganking, scamming, and stealing if we want to be safe, then. Since if being incidentally connected to a harassment case is cause for a permanent ban, then obviously causing distress to another player of any kind is also grounds for a ban. Clearly we shouldn't do anything that has the potential to make someone upset.
Well personally I think some of the scams should go, especially the margin trading scams that look legit on the eve market and ensnare new players. Regardless, there is a big difference between doing activities that help your bottom line and also hurt people, to doing activities that don't help your bottom line and are solely done to hurt/anger people. Especially when you subsequently try to rile up their anger even further, and then brag about it. Just stick to sucide ganking/scamming/stealing, skip the tear collection, and you should be fine. Easy peezy. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11440
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:52:00 -
[604] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Are we supposed to believe CCP because reasons?
Yes. No. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Mira Robinson
124
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:52:00 -
[605] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mira Robinson wrote:Gankers take joy in carebear tears, so carebears take joy in ganker tears. The difference of course being that the carebears are incompetent delicate ******* flowers who need mommy CCP to deal with the big bad ganker baddies. They throw tantrums when CCP doesn't act and pretend it was their doing when CCP does. And when mommy CCP does intervene, the ganker tears are worth months and months of carebear tears because the gankers didn't know where the line was drawn. They kept pushing and pushing. Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.
It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance. |
Helene Fidard
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
3
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:52:00 -
[606] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Just block him. You know someone is going to be upset after you harm him. If he gets mad, do the smart thing and ignore him. There is no need to further rile people up for tear harvesting purposes. Be the better man and move on with the game.
So what you're saying is that there is a group of self-selected Honourable Space Folk to whom rules do apply, and another group of people in pods who can do or say whatever they like. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
51
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:53:00 -
[607] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Just block him. You are somewhat missing the point. Of course we can just block him. But if the response to a player harassing you is to ignore and block him, why doesn't it go both ways?
Because you initiated the harm. You took an action that cost a player his ship, money, etc... and is likely to leave him in an emotionally pained state. Appreciating that, and acting accordingly, is the key to showing that you are not looking to harvest tears or take pleasure in the pain of another, but just to play the game for your own benefit. And I think that clearly avoids any possibility of a ban. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1244
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:53:00 -
[608] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: Are we supposed to believe CCP because reasons?
Yes. No. Maybe. [witty image] - Stream |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11440
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:54:00 -
[609] - Quote
Mira Robinson wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mira Robinson wrote:Gankers take joy in carebear tears, so carebears take joy in ganker tears. The difference of course being that the carebears are incompetent delicate ******* flowers who need mommy CCP to deal with the big bad ganker baddies. They throw tantrums when CCP doesn't act and pretend it was their doing when CCP does. And when mommy CCP does intervene, the ganker tears are worth months and months of carebear tears because the gankers didn't know where the line was drawn. They kept pushing and pushing. Read this post. Then read it again. Then go pod yourself repeatedly in alpha clones. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
51
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:54:00 -
[610] - Quote
Helene Fidard wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Just block him. You know someone is going to be upset after you harm him. If he gets mad, do the smart thing and ignore him. There is no need to further rile people up for tear harvesting purposes. Be the better man and move on with the game. So what you're saying is that there is a group of self-selected Honourable Space Folk to whom rules do apply, and another group of people in pods who can do or say whatever they like.
What I'm saying is to realize that when you have just vaporized weeks or months of a person's effort to appreciate that may be unhappy or angry, and may verbally abuse you, and to just ignore them and move on. Definitely don't add more fuel to the fire and relish in their "tears." |
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
832
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:55:00 -
[611] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:If you don't want to get banned you have some very simple solutions. Stop making the focus of your gameplay hurting/angering/humiliating others. Tear collection is not a legitimate objective in Eve. Focus on accomplishing things that help you, not on accomplishing things that hurt others. Now, if in the process of helping yourself and you suicide gank or scam someone, and they get angry, that is fine. Just take your win and move on. Don't look to revel in the moment, collect tears, mock them, try to get them on coms, etc.... Just take your winning, give a GF and go. If the focus of your game is to see how mad you can make other people get, and what kind of reactions you can elicit, then yes, you are doing it wrong, and potentially could get banned. If you just focus on helping yourself, and don't engage with people you are harming, then no, you are not really at risk of a ban. To me that is a clear enough line already. Well said.
Successfully doinitwrongGäó since 2006.
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1246
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:56:00 -
[612] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Because you initiated the harm. You took an action that cost a player his ship, money, etc... and is likely to leave him in an emotionally pained state THANK YOU
HERE WE GO
FINALLY
We have brought in the in-game actions which have for over a decade now been accepted as part of EVE and which Falcon himself was defending in the last week or two, and made them the initial part of the harassment which can get you banned.
What is/should be the difference between a guy who gets banned and a guy who doesn't when both are being assholes? One of them shot at a spaceship in a spaceship shooting game, and the other didn't.
A vision of EVE's future, right here. What a wonderful note to end the night on. [witty image] - Stream |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11441
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:56:00 -
[613] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Helene Fidard wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Just block him. You know someone is going to be upset after you harm him. If he gets mad, do the smart thing and ignore him. There is no need to further rile people up for tear harvesting purposes. Be the better man and move on with the game. So what you're saying is that there is a group of self-selected Honourable Space Folk to whom rules do apply, and another group of people in pods who can do or say whatever they like. What I'm saying is to realize that when you have just vaporized weeks or months of a person's effort to appreciate that may be unhappy or angry, and may verbally abuse you, and to just ignore them and move on. Definitely don't add more fuel to the fire and relish in their "tears." No.
Their verbal abuse is not any more acceptable than verbal abuse in general. Just because you blew up their ship does not give them the right to spew real life threats, racism, etc. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
530
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:58:00 -
[614] - Quote
Cismet wrote:
You now have 20 pages and growing of forum thread effectively screaming that you're wrong on this matter
Lol.
You need to learn to count mate. Everyone is supporting the bans. There is exactly 10 trolls that got #rekt and are posting pages and pages of tears about it, but quantity does NOT equal quality. |
evepal
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:59:00 -
[615] - Quote
So, this thread has run its course. There's just cyclical discussion now by the group strife with polarization, that they now just present points inconsistent with their prior statements. It's almost like because they've now invested so many tears and sleepless hours into this thread, they must see it to fruition -- which they'll never achieve, as it's counter to public conscience. The forever changing goal posts, the non cited examples that provide mere strawman points to the down right ad hominem, they've really tried it all.
I don't think you'll ever truly find a point to stand on in this discussion guys, just a heads up. I think you should awox a corp to vent, or something. I'm rather disappointed actually, I thought those that took such pride in harvesting anger from people would be much more composed in their discussion, except I just see logical fallacies backed up tears as clear as day. Enjoy guys and gals, it's been fun.
#transformersrollout |
Mira Robinson
124
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 22:59:00 -
[616] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mira Robinson wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mira Robinson wrote:Gankers take joy in carebear tears, so carebears take joy in ganker tears. The difference of course being that the carebears are incompetent delicate ******* flowers who need mommy CCP to deal with the big bad ganker baddies. They throw tantrums when CCP doesn't act and pretend it was their doing when CCP does. And when mommy CCP does intervene, the ganker tears are worth months and months of carebear tears because the gankers didn't know where the line was drawn. They kept pushing and pushing. Read this post.Then read it again. Then go pod yourself repeatedly in alpha clones. Or I could tl:dr and continue to swim in your tears.
I think I'll do that.
But alpha podding myself over and over? Trying to find some stupidity to exploit?
Trying to join your friends on the Banned Wagon? Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.
It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
53
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:00:00 -
[617] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Helene Fidard wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Just block him. You know someone is going to be upset after you harm him. If he gets mad, do the smart thing and ignore him. There is no need to further rile people up for tear harvesting purposes. Be the better man and move on with the game. So what you're saying is that there is a group of self-selected Honourable Space Folk to whom rules do apply, and another group of people in pods who can do or say whatever they like. What I'm saying is to realize that when you have just vaporized weeks or months of a person's effort to appreciate that may be unhappy or angry, and may verbally abuse you, and to just ignore them and move on. Definitely don't add more fuel to the fire and relish in their "tears." No. Their verbal abuse is not any more acceptable than verbal abuse in general. Just because you blew up their ship does not give them the right to spew real life threats, racism, etc.
So block them, petition it and move on. Given that just lost weeks or months worth of effort they are going to be in a far more emotionally vulnerable state than you are, and are more likely to become victimized or have a meltdown. If you don't like what they are saying, then by all means go report it to CCP, but don't egg them on. Simple. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11441
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:00:00 -
[618] - Quote
Mira Robinson wrote:But alpha podding myself over and over? Trying to find some stupidity to exploit?
Trying to join your friends on the Banned Wagon? Is telling you to alpha pod yourself repeatedly a bannable offense? Why don't we test that? I'll even help you do it. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11441
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:01:00 -
[619] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:So block them, petition it and move on. Given that just lost weeks or months worth of effort they are going to be in a far more emotionally vulnerable state than you are, and are more likely to become victimized or have a meltdown. If you don't like what they are saying, then by all means go report it to CCP, but don't egg them on. Simple. So again what you're saying is that one group is responsible for their actions, and another is not. Okay. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
834
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:02:00 -
[620] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mira Robinson wrote:Gankers take joy in carebear tears, so carebears take joy in ganker tears. The difference of course being that the carebears are incompetent delicate ******* flowers who need mommy CCP to deal with the big bad ganker baddies. They throw tantrums when CCP doesn't act and pretend it was their doing when CCP does. Nice Ad Hom there.
Successfully doinitwrongGäó since 2006.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11441
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:04:00 -
[621] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mira Robinson wrote:Gankers take joy in carebear tears, so carebears take joy in ganker tears. The difference of course being that the carebears are incompetent delicate ******* flowers who need mommy CCP to deal with the big bad ganker baddies. They throw tantrums when CCP doesn't act and pretend it was their doing when CCP does. Nice Ad Hom there. There's a pretty distinct difference between an ad hominem and an insult. That post is simply an insult. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Cismet
Tellcomtec Gold
19
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Posted - 2014.09.11 23:09:00 -
[622] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Cismet wrote:
You now have 20 pages and growing of forum thread effectively screaming that you're wrong on this matter
Lol. You need to learn to count mate. Everyone is supporting the bans. There is exactly 10 trolls that got #rekt and are posting pages and pages of tears about it, but quantity does NOT equal quality.
You can neither support or decry the bans, as noone has any idea why anyone has been banned aside from the vaguest notion that it was something to do with harassment and RL was involved in some way shape and form.
There are a few people saying the bans are right, there are a few saying the bans are wrong. The majority of the posts on the matter are about CCP being transparent as to the reason for the bans and actually defining what is considered unacceptable in a game where almost everything is permitted. CCP allow actions that are defined as griefing and harassment almost universally but refuse to define what they consider too far. This is unacceptable. If it were as simple as just saying act with human decency, then fine. But under those circumstances there would be little scamming (theft is not in line with human decency), no ganking, no "carebear tear harvests", because that's bullying and is against public decency, no awoxing, no shiny ship hunting..... all of these actions could easily be considered harassment. The issue is that CCP allows harassment. They encourage harassment because they want Eve to be gritty and harsh and unforgiving. What the majority are stating is that they need to define when harassment is too far.
Noone is claiming they don't have the right to issue bans, few people are claiming they were right or wrong, they just want to know where the line is so they don't cross it. Yes a few people will push their luck, but in a game where harassment is legal and even encouraged, you can't then turn around and state human decency and "you know when it's too far" because people don't. I'm not on the other end of the keyboard with the other person, I don't know what they're doing. If I kill their 10 billion ISK shiny fit, odds are they're going to be going mental and really upset, but that's not enough for a ban? Well what is, that's the whole issue for me, and many others. It's not about the tears of any one group (a form of harassment again that's totally allowed and encouraged) but about transparency in a world that's supposed to be on the edge. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
2094
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:10:00 -
[623] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Cismet wrote:
You now have 20 pages and growing of forum thread effectively screaming that you're wrong on this matter
Lol. You need to learn to count mate. Everyone is supporting the bans. There is exactly 10 trolls that got #rekt and are posting pages and pages of tears about it, but quantity does NOT equal quality. ^This. Additionally, they should ban all the well known doxxers, because that **** is just plain creepy. If anything, the bans don't go far enough. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11442
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:13:00 -
[624] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It isn't our job to dictate to people how to maintain a base standard of human decency toward one another, and we're not going to do so. So don't scam or gank, as these aren't acts of human decency.
CCP Falcon wrote:The bottom line is that it's down to members of the community to know where the line crosses from common decency to harassment. Really? That's cute, because a good portion of your community believes that scamming and ganking constitute harassment. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Mira Robinson
125
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:14:00 -
[625] - Quote
Cismet wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:Cismet wrote:
You now have 20 pages and growing of forum thread effectively screaming that you're wrong on this matter
Lol. You need to learn to count mate. Everyone is supporting the bans. There is exactly 10 trolls that got #rekt and are posting pages and pages of tears about it, but quantity does NOT equal quality. You can neither support or decry the bans, as noone has any idea why anyone has been banned aside from the vaguest notion that it was something to do with harassment and RL was involved in some way shape and form. There are a few people saying the bans are right, there are a few saying the bans are wrong. The majority of the posts on the matter are about CCP being transparent as to the reason for the bans and actually defining what is considered unacceptable in a game where almost everything is permitted. CCP allow actions that are defined as griefing and harassment almost universally but refuse to define what they consider too far. This is unacceptable. If it were as simple as just saying act with human decency, then fine. But under those circumstances there would be little scamming (theft is not in line with human decency), no ganking, no "carebear tear harvests", because that's bullying and is against public decency, no awoxing, no shiny ship hunting..... all of these actions could easily be considered harassment. The issue is that CCP allows harassment. They encourage harassment because they want Eve to be gritty and harsh and unforgiving. What the majority are stating is that they need to define when harassment is too far. Noone is claiming they don't have the right to issue bans, few people are claiming they were right or wrong, they just want to know where the line is so they don't cross it. Yes a few people will push their luck, but in a game where harassment is legal and even encouraged, you can't then turn around and state human decency and "you know when it's too far" because people don't. I'm not on the other end of the keyboard with the other person, I don't know what they're doing. If I kill their 10 billion ISK shiny fit, odds are they're going to be going mental and really upset, but that's not enough for a ban? Well what is, that's the whole issue for me, and many others. It's not about the tears of any one group (a form of harassment again that's totally allowed and encouraged) but about transparency in a world that's supposed to be on the edge. If they're upset, maybe you, oh I don't know, don't screencap tears to post on a blog. Don't invite them to TeamSpeak to collect audio tears.
But then how would they get hits on their ganking blogs.
So many people view carebears as an inferior race in this game, thinking they can do whatever they want. Clearly they cannot. Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.
It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2160
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:14:00 -
[626] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.
The Rules: 2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11442
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:16:00 -
[627] - Quote
Oh hey you removed my post where I kindly suggested to a player that they should pod themselves repeatedly. I extend that to you. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
2099
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:18:00 -
[628] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:The bottom line is that it's down to members of the community to know where the line crosses from common decency to harassment. Really? That's cute, because a good portion of your community believes that scamming and ganking constitute harassment. Doesn't matter what they believe; what matters is what CCP believes. It's always been that way.
CCP has made it very clear that ganking and scamming for isk are ok. Everything beyond that, you do at your own risk. Use common sense. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11442
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:22:00 -
[629] - Quote
Mira Robinson wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Oh hey you removed my post where I kindly suggested to a player that they should pod themselves repeatedly. I extend that to you. Really proving your platform as being polite, correct, and non-harassing, James. Yes I'm so terribly interested in being polite to someone who revels in other players being banned in a questionable manner.
As for "non-harassing"... LOL. Here's your community's definition of harassment. Saying mean things to someone should get you banned. Brilliant. This is the EVE of today, apparently. Enjoying the rain today? ;) |
Helene Fidard
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
4
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 23:24:00 -
[630] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:^This. Additionally, they should ban all the well known doxxers, because that **** is just plain creepy. If anything, the bans don't go far enough. If CCP wants to start handing out liberal bans for that sort of behaviour, while at the same time clearly explaining why the ban occured and which behaviour is not allowed, wellGǪ I'd certainly be cheering them on.
Mira Robinson wrote:If they're upset, maybe you, oh I don't know, don't screencap tears to post on a blog. Have people been banned for doing that? Is that not allowed? |
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