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Why I don't go to lowsec.

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Hal Morsh Exodus Mining Corp 177	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:18:23 - [1] - Quote People constantly go after me for suggesting the boogyman is around every corner in lowsec, anyone, everyone + their alts and PL dreads are all after you specifically you and only you just because you are in lowsec. So I hadn't entered lowsec in months but the content decided to send me there, and while most supposed "carebears" would not do it I decided I would, since there might be an A-type in it at the end. Lets face it though, everyone is considered a carebear of some sort by everyone else. So I get my destroyer, the first jump is clear, second jump is a full overview gatecamp, and the game decided that this was the jump to not select the next stargate but the previous stargate, so I lost my pod too. Wouldn't have mattered, I tried again with a tristan, all lows and rigs with low friction nozzle joints and nanofiber hull, lost that but jumped through. I docked at a station, but what do you know? Only t2 modules for sale in the land of bittervets who love camping. So I fit a tristan and undock instadied, figures... So I fit another one? The guy looted my wreck and left, thankfully the site was only a few frigates, but nothing dropped except a meta autocannon, i'm surprised at this point I wasn't probed down before even seeing the probed on d-scan, like what happened to my astero with that ancillary shield interceptor whom I obviously wasn't going to be able to kill because one module to rule them all ancillaries being as OP as they are. So at least I left lowsec alive, the whole gatecamp jumped through with me, but only locked me and didn't scram. Maybe they figured it wasn't worth the kill this time, and I can't even get anything off the killrights, because 2 out of the 3 have a billion + in bounty and are all minus security status, even if they entered highsec who would need the killright to shoot? Lowsec is "murphies law online". Might be a reason right there why so few use the "lowsec content". Won't be making that mistake again. Where's the reward for my risk? People suggest better ships, but why throw more isk into the grinder? That obviously doesn't make sense. Edit: fixed some of the mangled words. *I enjoy a good session of mining.*
Paranoid Loyd 2546	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:20:34 - [2] - Quote "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 7105	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:21:20 - [3] - Quote tl;dr. Not prepared to go to lowsec Goes to lowsec anyway. grr lowsec content. Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 50	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:23:07 - [4] - Quote You obviously lack experience, you need to check the map and learn how to move around in low sec. lowsec is as safe as highsec if you know what you are doing. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Hal Morsh Exodus Mining Corp 177	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:25:56 - [5] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: You obviously lack experience, you need to check the map and learn how to move around in low sec. lowsec is as safe as highsec if you know what you are doing. No amount of map checking is going to tell me the ships sitting on the next gate, they could be anywhere. But put murphies law to it and they will only be there if I jump, so the best decision is to not jump. I figure if you put murphies law into the game you should be pretty safe. I decided against the obvious and lost stuff. Course having alts takes care of most of those problems, while friends do not. I mean whos wanting to jump into a meat grinder so their friend can jump through and go get his content. *I enjoy a good session of mining.*
Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 210	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:31:47 - [6] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: People constantly go after me for suggesting the boogyman is around every corner in lowsec, anyone, everyone + their alts and PL dreads are all after you specifically you and only you just because you are in lowsec. So I hadn't entered lowsec in months but the content decided to send me there, and while most supposed "carebears" would not do it I decided I would, since there might be an A-type in it at the end. Lets face it though, everyone is considered a carebear of some sort by everyone else. So I get my destroyer, the first jump is clear, second jump is a full overview gatecamp, and the game decided that this was the jump to not select the next stargate but the previous stargate, so I lost my pod too. Wouldn't have mattered, I tried again with a tristan, all lows and rigs with low friction nozzle joints and nanofiber hull, lost that but jumped through. I docked at a station, but what do you know? Only t2 modules for sale in the land of bittervets who love camping. So I fit a tristan and undock instadied, figures... So I fit another one? The guy looted my wreck and left, thankfully the site was only a few frigates, but nothing dropped except a meta autocannon, i'm surprised at this point I wasn't probed down before even seeing the probed on d-scan, like what happened to my astero with that ancillary shield interceptor whom I obviously wasn't going to be able to kill because one module to rule them all ancillaries being as OP as they are. So at least I left lowsec alive, the whole gatecamp jumped through with me, but only locked me and didn't scram. Maybe they figured it wasn't worth the kill this time, and I can't even get anything off the killrights, because 2 out of the 3 have a billion + in bounty and are all minus security status, even if they entered highsec who would need the killright to shoot? Lowsec is "murphies law online". Might be a reason right there why so few use the "lowsec content". Won't be making that mistake again. Where's the reward for my risk? People suggest better ships, but why throw more isk into the grinder? That obviously doesn't make sense. Edit: fixed some of the mangled words. I am a Brave Newbie ... I live in Null. And so can you.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6588	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:34:08 - [7] - Quote You(op) sound like Yossarian from Catch 22. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Maekchu Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 81	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:34:29 - [8] - Quote Came for tears. Left satisfied.
Heavens Deliverance Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:38:15 - [9] - Quote Quote: No amount of map checking is going to tell me the ships sitting on the next gate, they could be anywhere. No you are right about the map but why don't you just learn to be safe warping to gates sensibly if you are vulnerable and learn to dscan.... :O
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5100	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:44:29 - [10] - Quote I do PI in low-sec and all I ever see are noob-ships and cynos. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics

Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8960	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:44:51 - [11] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: People constantly go after me for suggesting the boogyman is around every corner in lowsec, anyone, everyone + their alts and PL dreads are all after you specifically you and only you just because you are in lowsec. So I hadn't entered lowsec in months but the content decided to send me there, and while most supposed "carebears" would not do it I decided I would, since there might be an A-type in it at the end. Lets face it though, everyone is considered a carebear of some sort by everyone else. So I get my destroyer, the first jump is clear, second jump is a full overview gatecamp, and the game decided that this was the jump to not select the next stargate but the previous stargate, so I lost my pod too. Wouldn't have mattered, I tried again with a tristan, all lows and rigs with low friction nozzle joints and nanofiber hull, lost that but jumped through. I docked at a station, but what do you know? Only t2 modules for sale in the land of bittervets who love camping. So I fit a tristan and undock instadied, figures... So I fit another one? The guy looted my wreck and left, thankfully the site was only a few frigates, but nothing dropped except a meta autocannon, i'm surprised at this point I wasn't probed down before even seeing the probed on d-scan, like what happened to my astero with that ancillary shield interceptor whom I obviously wasn't going to be able to kill because one module to rule them all ancillaries being as OP as they are. So at least I left lowsec alive, the whole gatecamp jumped through with me, but only locked me and didn't scram. Maybe they figured it wasn't worth the kill this time, and I can't even get anything off the killrights, because 2 out of the 3 have a billion + in bounty and are all minus security status, even if they entered highsec who would need the killright to shoot? Lowsec is "murphies law online". Might be a reason right there why so few use the "lowsec content". Won't be making that mistake again. Where's the reward for my risk? People suggest better ships, but why throw more isk into the grinder? That obviously doesn't make sense. Edit: fixed some of the mangled words. So rather than figure out where you went wrong , leanr form it, and make a plan for success in the future (while chalking this one up to a learning experience and accepting that rewards are sometimes randomw in EVE), you choose to try once, fail (because of your own ignorance), skitter back to high sec and make a snarky and useless forum post. Yep, high sec is the place for you, which is why I won't even bother telling you the 8 things you did wrong here.
Karl Jerr Herzack Unit 48	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:46:56 - [12] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Lowsec is "murphies law online". Might be a reason right there why so few use the "lowsec content". Won't be making that mistake again. Where's the reward for my risk? People suggest better ships, but why throw more isk into the grinder? That obviously doesn't make sense. From a lowbear who have fun in LS, my only answer is
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10522	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:49:00 - [13] - Quote I gave it an extremely brief read, and I identified four pretty damning mistakes. Enough to make me think that if this isn't manufactured outrage (which, in my opinion is rather likely), then the OP is pretty damn bad at this game. Nontheless, I enjoyed your tears over what must have been less than twenty million worth of ships and mods, OP. By all means, continue. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Mizhir Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 69323	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:53:40 - [14] - Quote Adapt or die. Darwin's law is more accurate than Murphy's law when describing eve. One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp
Hal Morsh Exodus Mining Corp 177	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:56:31 - [15] - Quote I had more fun when I actually lived in lowsec. It was a dead end system which we took from some campers. We eventually got pushed out due to complications. I tried null, but that kept going badly, interceptor killing everything non combat in a station less transit system, the unfit apoc sitting in system for 5 minutes being killed and not even calling for help. I only got curious and warped in as he died. Otherwise if you attempted to warp to the inty in anything pewpew, he was already 2 systems out by the time you landed. I finally left null when warping to a gate resulted in a T2 frigate blob outa nowhere. But hey the corp gained 300 mill in rat loots, not like I was getting that out of there. My pvp fun used to involve an ice belt in highsec, and no it wasn't ganking. It was getting yellow and fighting whoever shot at me. *I enjoy a good session of mining.*
Some Rando University of Caille Gallente Federation 1256	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:56:54 - [16] - Quote This month's losses were pretty bad, OP, but you did good in August out in null. Try harder? CCP has no sense of humour.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2010	Posted - 2014.11.08 21:59:42 - [17] - Quote Yes! Lowsec is real, lowsec is awesome! OP, lowsec is for PVP. Sure, besides PVP you can do anything you want in lowsec. For example, I also manufacture and trade in lowsec. But... Lowsec works best for you if you embrace PVP. Only then will you truly learn also how to avoid pvp when you're minding your PVE or ISK-making business. If you're not interested in PVP, you're better off in highsec or in a nullbear corp. Fly fun! Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Hal Morsh Exodus Mining Corp 177	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:00:01 - [18] - Quote Some Rando wrote: This month's losses were pretty bad, OP, but you did good in August out in null. Try harder? I wasn't much of a contribution to those, just a tag along on coms. *I enjoy a good session of mining.*
Some Rando University of Caille Gallente Federation 1257	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:06:44 - [19] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Some Rando wrote: This month's losses were pretty bad, OP, but you did good in August out in null. Try harder? I wasn't much of a contribution to those, just a tag along on coms. So you have the stones to play PvP out in null and low before this month, and then you lose three ships and a pod ... and are now whining in GD? Yeah, go back to high-sec. Make sure to post about how gankers are bad people too. CCP has no sense of humour.
somedudeinaship Republic University Minmatar Republic 37	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:08:24 - [20] - Quote Usually gate camps require a little bit of situational awareness. If they have an instalock you're probably toast unless you can burn back to gate and get your butt back through it. Even then they might see you're going and head back across, but it's better then nothing. Or you can do the other thing which is to fit warp stabs on your lows and try to push through the gate regardless. You'll probably be well into armor or even hull if they hit you hard enough but you'll likely warp off if they aren't expecting it. I've been trying a lot of random fits too as I suck at pvp for the most part. If you're skills are low you might still be able to win if you know what you're up against. I've made the mistake of fitting different ships as well and frankly I think that it might actually be the worse thing for a new player to do. It's perhaps best for those of us less experienced in pvp to stick to one ship type. Try out ranged fits with drones or long range missile boats in my opinion. If you can pick them off at range and they aren't an inty or tackle ships then maybe you have a chance. But again there's a lot that goes on in a fight in EVE. There are things to take into account like radial velocity, angular velocity, time to lock target, optimal and falloff ranges and chance to do perfect damage, knowing other ships typical fittings, using ammo that can exploit the targets weak spots, and oh so much more. If you want to use a drone boat then maybe just focus on continuing to train up drone support skills, drone skills, and gallente all the way up to V, plus armor or shield skills up to IV or V each. Fitting is important as well and you might want to try to push cap management, powergrid and cpu skills all up to IV if not V as well. I am definitely no pro but I have had a month or so experience in fw, my killboard is horrendous but frankly I think that's how most start out at first. Especially those of us that aren't naturally good at pvp or competitive gaming in general. EDIT: Btw as far as I am aware quite a few people that pvp in lo have alternate forms of income doing incursions, level 4's and DED complexes, ratting, etc to fund their pvp. It's good to have perhaps several hundred million to blow while you fit your ships and learn to pvp. ALSO, you can always buy your fittings and ships and contract them to Black Frog to be delivered to whichever home system you want in lowsec. AND JOIN A CORP IN PVP, it's way more fun!!!

Hal Morsh Exodus Mining Corp 177	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:31:53 - [21] - Quote somedudeinaship wrote: AND JOIN A CORP IN PVP, it's way more fun!!! I make complaint threads every now and then in the miserable aftermath of some kind of derp. Seems this might be what I've been missing to begin with. *I enjoy a good session of mining.*
Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 210	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:33:06 - [22] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: I had more fun when I actually lived in lowsec. It was a dead end system which we took from some campers. We eventually got pushed out due to complications. I tried null, but that kept going badly, interceptor killing everything non combat in a station less transit system, the unfit apoc sitting in system for 5 minutes being killed and not even calling for help. I only got curious and warped in as he died. Otherwise if you attempted to warp to the inty in anything pewpew, he was already 2 systems out by the time you landed. I finally left null when warping to a gate resulted in a T2 frigate blob outa nowhere. But hey the corp gained 300 mill in rat loots, not like I was getting that out of there. My pvp fun used to involve an ice belt in highsec, and no it wasn't ganking. It was getting yellow and fighting whoever shot at me. I repeat ... I am a Brave Newbie and live in Null. So can you! If you can't learn how to play this game by yourself, join a group who can teach you how.
Lugia3 Intentionally Dense Easily Excited 1363	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:41:51 - [23] - Quote Complains about being pee vee peed in the pee vee pee area, is in "Exodus Mining Corp". "CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik Remove Sov!
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 52	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:44:44 - [24] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Mharius Skjem wrote: You obviously lack experience, you need to check the map and learn how to move around in low sec. lowsec is as safe as highsec if you know what you are doing. No amount of map checking is going to tell me the ships sitting on the next gate, they could be anywhere. But put murphies law to it and they will only be there if I jump, so the best decision is to not jump. I figure if you put murphies law into the game you should be pretty safe. I decided against the obvious and lost stuff. Course having alts takes care of most of those problems, while friends do not. I mean whos wanting to jump into a meat grinder so their friend can jump through and go get his content. I have no alts and get around fine. The map filters will give you clues. If a lot of ships have been destroyed in the last hour then it may indicate a gate camp. You can avoid the system or jump anyway. If it is camped then you can still escape in most cases if you are quick, willing to wait, and don't panic. Gate camps prey on panic. There's a highsec to null connection in caldari space that I used to camp regularly on the null side of it. I think it was torrinnos or something like that. We had bubbles, insta locking ships and massive amounts of fire power. People used to run the camp all of the time, lots of them escaped. After a while it soon dawned on me that the same people ran the camp regularly and they were the same ones escaping. They knew what they were doing. Camps can be beat, but you got to learn how. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 2640	Posted - 2014.11.08 23:45:11 - [25] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Camps can be beat, but you got to learn how. And to iterate on that, the best way to learn is getting to know one or more of the people that camp the gate. When you get blown up in a pvp situation, any pvp situation, and you have no clue as to what you could have done to avoid it, ask the people that blew you up. There are a lot of players that are happy to give tips and learn you tricks, even if it means making you better at (avoiding) pvp and more difficult for them to kill you. Never be afraid to learn! And never bar yourself from areas in this game. It's to beautiful to only want to experience pieces of it.... ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Skydell Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums 650	Posted - 2014.11.08 23:53:41 - [26] - Quote 'Low Sec' like 'high sec' is a broad term. Most of it is empty wasteland dividing places of relevance. FW on the other hands, like Null is an API delayed LFG system. Blob it up, blob it up, Blob it up some more. Win.
Hal Morsh Exodus Mining Corp 177	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:03:42 - [27] - Quote Oh.... I also forgot to mention the lowsec area the expedition wanted me to rat in was faction warfare space right next to the HEK market hub. Probably made the situation much worse didn't it? *I enjoy a good session of mining.*
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5102	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:07:26 - [28] - Quote Hek low-sec entry gate is camped 9 out of 10 times. Since always. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Cyndrogen Angels Of Life 629	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:07:32 - [29] - Quote Do you know why it's called LOW sec? Because it's not for everybody, low number of players. Usually it's pretty safe as long as you are alert and understand gate camp mechanics. Sounds like you should be in a t3. You need a modular approach if you're going solo. also eve has three game modes: Painful (aka solo) Hard Wait (aka patience) Do you homework on dotlan next time. Find out who gate camps and what ships they use. Should be pretty easy to avoid.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 248	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:31:21 - [30] - Quote Agree with OP, most of the lowsec "content" is just lame gatecamps. Would like to see buffed up sentry guns to actually incentivize people to combat in the system not just on the gates.

Cyndrogen Angels Of Life 630	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:34:06 - [31] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Agree with OP, most of the lowsec "content" is just lame gatecamps. Would like to see buffed up sentry guns to actually incentivize people to combat in the system not just on the gates. do you know why people gate camp? Because no one goes to "combat" in lowsec. It's usually to get from A to B and it just happens to go through lowsec.
Karl Jerr Herzack Unit 49	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:36:30 - [32] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Agree with OP, most of the lowsec "content" is just lame gatecamps. Would like to see buffed up sentry guns to actually incentivize people to combat in the system not just on the gates. Please keep your nerf for HS. There aren't "just" gatecamps you know...
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 248	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:46:31 - [33] - Quote Karl Jerr wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Agree with OP, most of the lowsec "content" is just lame gatecamps. Would like to see buffed up sentry guns to actually incentivize people to combat in the system not just on the gates. Please keep your nerf for HS. There aren't "just" gatecamps you know... Not sure what you are trying to say. Considering that lowsec is the least populated region of the game, and pretty desolate outside the FW systems....it probably could use a bit of a spice up.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 469	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:50:40 - [34] - Quote You know, it wouldnt kill you to give the guys some advice. Honestly, you people are bonkers. "no-one comes to low", "everyone stays in high sec", whine whine, cry cry. So the guy goes to low and posts (an admittedly reasonably poor) thread on why he doesnt go and the response is mainly "lol noob, gtfo back to high sec". If you give advice, help a little, maybe we can drag low sec population up a little. So maybe OP is a lost cause, maybe he isnt - but a lot of "maybes" might read this - it doesnt exactly read well to them as all you're doing is reinforcing the (entirely false) idea that low is a death trap and you need oodles of experience to have the slimmest chance of survival. @OP - want to learn low and how she works? Fly an interceptor, scout about/get to know the locals/get to know the lay of the land/burn bookmarks. Low/null sec is far from a deathtrap - sure, some homework needs to be done - but usually only once. Do your scouting in an interceptor/CovOps then once you have the bits and pieces lined up (undock/gate bounce BMs etc) - have black frog move some assets there for you. It really is just experience - but to get that experience in a pain free way - inty/CovOps - just keep in mind smartie BS camps might still blap you.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10522	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:10:30 - [35] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Agree with OP, most of the lowsec "content" is just lame gatecamps. Would like to see buffed up sentry guns to actually incentivize people to combat in the system not just on the gates. Because you can totally pull people into open space between gates in lowsec? This is some pretty horrifying ignorance, even for an imbecile like you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 248	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:19:15 - [36] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Agree with OP, most of the lowsec "content" is just lame gatecamps. Would like to see buffed up sentry guns to actually incentivize people to combat in the system not just on the gates. Because you can totally pull people into open space between gates in lowsec? This is some pretty horrifying ignorance, even for an imbecile like you. Oooh....back to the name calling...immature as usual, I see....maybe it's time to move beyond 6th grade level? Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 13792	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:21:52 - [37] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec. You want to bring about more combat by reducing combat where the most traffic is... Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10522	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:27:56 - [38] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec. It would result in much, much less conflict. Because one of the few places you can actually catch people is on gates. And as for making people want to live in lowsec, the solution is simple. Highsec needs to be savagely nerfed, so it doesn't overshadow lowsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 248	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:30:50 - [39] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec. You want to bring about more combat by reducing combat where the most traffic is... Fails to properly diagnose the problem. The fundamental problem with lowsec is that the gatecamp ganks make it not viable to do PvE activities there....it's just a pirate wasteland. If you made travel easier by buffing sentry guns, the gatecamps would decline, and the increased traffic flow would make PvE play more viable. That would then encourage more interesting piracy, mainly piracy against PvE residents....it would make lowsec fun instead of just a sequence of boring gatecamps.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 248	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:32:57 - [40] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec. It would result in much, much less conflict. Because one of the few places you can actually catch people is on gates. And as for making people want to live in lowsec, the solution is simple. Highsec needs to be savagely nerfed, so it doesn't overshadow lowsec. Yes, because savagely nerfing highsec would make the PvE highsec players go live in incredibly dangerous and CONCORD free lowsec, not join the blue donut or quit Eve entirely. I appreciate your vision for a PvP mayhem game, the only problem is that no one really wants to play it...certainly not as the victim. So given that highsec is unlikely to be nerfed into oblivion anytime soon (if anything it's getting buffed), and given that the blue donut isn't disappearing any time soon, the logical question is how to make lowsec fun and interesting without needing to nerf everything else into oblivion.

Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10522	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:35:21 - [41] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: The fundamental problem with lowsec is that the gatecamp ganks make it not viable to do PvE activities there....it's just a pirate wasteland. But meanwhile, lowsec groups carebear freely throughout Molden Heath. Among other places. Quote: If you made travel easier by buffing sentry guns, the gatecamps would decline, and the increased traffic flow would make PvE play more viable. No it would not. Travel fitting plus the MWD+Cloak trick makes it easily possible to move even battleships through lowsec. It's already too easy in fact. Quote: That would then encourage more interesting piracy, mainly piracy against PvE residents....it would make lowsec fun instead of just a sequence of boring gatecamps. I barely ever see an actual gatecamp anymore, to be honest. Even places like Amamake which used to be camped 23/7 are often empty, you can roll through them with even slow PI haulers and never see anyone else on grid. The reason why lowsec is empty is because you can achieve the same level of income in highsec with far, far more safety. Highsec needs dramatically nerfed in order to fix lowsec. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 13794	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:36:23 - [42] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Fails to properly diagnose the problem. The fundamental problem with lowsec is that the gatecamp ganks make it not viable to do PvE activities there....it's just a pirate wasteland. I dove through lowsec the other night solo in a mega and encountered not a single gate camp. In fact I have not seen one for months. Its a total myth spouted by the spineless in highsec. Veers Belvar wrote: If you made travel easier by buffing sentry guns, the gatecamps would decline, and the increased traffic flow would make PvE play more viable. That would then encourage more interesting piracy, mainly piracy against PvE residents....it would make lowsec fun instead of just a sequence of boring gatecamps. What gatecamps? All this would do is force cruisers off the gates just like frigates and reduce the amount of targets greatly. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10522	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:41:58 - [43] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Yes, because savagely nerfing highsec would make the PvE highsec players go live in incredibly dangerous and CONCORD free lowsec, not join the blue donut or quit Eve entirely. And making it impossible to catch people on gates would make these same risk averse shitheels live in lowsec? No, but risk should equal isk. Less risk in highsec should result in less isk. Than anywhere else. Quote: I appreciate your vision for a PvP mayhem game, the only problem is that no one really wants to play it...certainly not as the victim. One wonders why people fly defenseless ships then. In EVE, if you are a victim, it is because you made a deliberate choice to be one. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Some Rando University of Caille Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:56:20 - [44] - Quote afkalt wrote: You know, it wouldnt kill you to give the guys some advice. Check out OP's killboard page; he used to live in null-sec and has been out in low-sec shooting people on quite a few occassions. So, either he's a conplete troll or he refuses to learn how to get around space. In either case, advice is not what he needs. CCP has no sense of humour.
Paranoid Loyd 2553	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:21:15 - [45] - Quote Some Rando wrote: afkalt wrote: You know, it wouldnt kill you to give the guys some advice. Check out OP's killboard page; he used to live in null-sec and has been out in low-sec shooting people on quite a few occassions. So, either he's a conplete troll or he refuses to learn how to get around space. In either case, advice is not what he needs. I typed out more or less the same response then realized you already did. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
Anslo Scope Works 21000	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:26:55 - [46] - Quote Eve mail me if you're willing to try with a fresh attitude OP [center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Daemun Khanid Saeculari Imperial Outlaws. 20	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:32:48 - [47] - Quote (laughs a little about how much easier EvE is now when anyone can drop a few dollars and walk away w a billion isk, remembers spending over a month busting butt for enough to buy a BS w fancy t1 loot modules. Then jumping into a system (waiting for load screen) then wondering why I'm back in a station instead of on the other side of the gate.) Now I fly frigates that cost more than my first apoc just for giggles. Pity is non-existant. Daemun of Khanid
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 187	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:48:00 - [48] - Quote Heavens Deliverance wrote: Quote: No amount of map checking is going to tell me the ships sitting on the next gate, they could be anywhere. No you are right about the map but why don't you just learn to be safe warping to gates sensibly if you are vulnerable and learn to dscan.... :O How do you dcan a system before you jump into it?
Johan Civire The Lyran Empire 867	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:58:49 - [49] - Quote afkalt wrote: You know, it wouldnt kill you to give the guys some advice. Honestly, you people are bonkers. "no-one comes to low", "everyone stays in high sec", whine whine, cry cry. So the guy goes to low and posts (an admittedly reasonably poor) thread on why he doesnt go and the response is mainly "lol noob, gtfo back to high sec". If you give advice, help a little, maybe we can drag low sec population up a little. So maybe OP is a lost cause, maybe he isnt - but a lot of "maybes" might read this - it doesnt exactly read well to them as all you're doing is reinforcing the (entirely false) idea that low is a death trap and you need oodles of experience to have the slimmest chance of survival. @OP - want to learn low and how she works? Fly an interceptor, scout about/get to know the locals/get to know the lay of the land/burn bookmarks. Low/null sec is far from a deathtrap - sure, some homework needs to be done - but usually only once. Do your scouting in an interceptor/CovOps then once you have the bits and pieces lined up (undock/gate bounce BMs etc) - have black frog move some assets there for you. It really is just experience - but to get that experience in a pain free way - inty/CovOps - just keep in mind smartie BS camps might still blap you. You sir knows exactly how it works. And yes i agree on every word you say there. This nail the topic and the answer.
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 193	Posted - 2014.11.09 03:22:54 - [50] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Where's the reward for my risk? The thrill and excitement when you pull it off successfully? Plus the financial reward when you get a good drop? If you usually play in the same area you could get an Astero and create some tactical bookmarks in the low sec systems you might be sent to. Look at Dotlan to find any regularly camped systems you should avoid. A Stratios with a cov-ops cloak is a lot easier to move around low until you get more experience and is strong enough to run a lot of escalations.

Treyah Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda 3	Posted - 2014.11.09 04:59:26 - [51] - Quote Dude -- if you're still reading this ... just check the map for recent ship / pod kills in the last 24 hours. If you see something that indicates activity might be 'going down' ... jump in a fast frigate and scout it out first. Don't just willy-nilly yourself in and think you'll make it out fine everytime. This is space with goons in the dark man, you gotta either bring brains or backup.
Ohemgeez MyNameWontFi Space Heroes In Training 10	Posted - 2014.11.09 05:14:57 - [52] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Lowsec is "murphies law online". Might be a reason right there why so few use the "lowsec content". Dude, are you sure about that? low sec is the most active region for a couple of months now. gallente taking all of gal/cal warzone, null entities shifting to lowsec for gudfites, the usual lowsec pirates figthing again (doing some PI while snuff and SC slugging it out several AU away) and neutral entities roaming e.g. E-UNI. PI and production is also healthy afaik within my main's corps. although selling their product i admit is being transported to hisec. i only played for 7 months now and i wont be anywhere else than in lowsec for some forseeable future.
Trevor Dalech Adeptus Assassinorum Silent Eviction 57	Posted - 2014.11.09 06:11:47 - [53] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Agree with OP, most of the lowsec "content" is just lame gatecamps. Would like to see buffed up sentry guns to actually incentivize people to combat in the system not just on the gates. Because you can totally pull people into open space between gates in lowsec? This is some pretty horrifying ignorance, even for an imbecile like you. Oooh....back to the name calling...immature as usual, I see....maybe it's time to move beyond 6th grade level? Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec. Buffing sentry guns will only increase the size of the gate camps, as people will compensate for the increased amount of sentry dps. It will however reduce the possibilities of small gang and solo pvp on gates. I don't think "more blobs!" is a good solution.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 4309	Posted - 2014.11.09 06:15:38 - [54] - Quote Whenever I undock, I fully expect to lose my ship. Whenever I enter lowsec, I expect to return via pod-express to my medical clone. I'm surprised the OP didn't mention trying to convo anyone, first to congratulate them, second to admit he has a lot to learn, and third to ask if the victor has any tips for improvement or survival.
Big Lynx Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 730	Posted - 2014.11.09 06:47:57 - [55] - Quote Confirmed. OP's balls are still hanging on that gate he was entering lowsec.
Mag's the united 18146	Posted - 2014.11.09 07:10:43 - [56] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Fails to properly diagnose the problem. Yes you did and it shows a complete lack of knowledge. Low sec requires it's own niche product, not nerfs on conflict. But CCP has ignored low sec for years and look to do so for more to come. So no matter how tempting it is, I will not ask for you to hold your breath for any changes. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Renegade Heart Smack My Ship Up 261	Posted - 2014.11.09 08:37:07 - [57] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Where's the reward for my risk? People suggest better ships, but why throw more isk into the grinder? That obviously doesn't make sense. Incompetence should not be rewarded. There are plenty of other players who fly solo in low sec in nice ships and make nice isk out of it. If you do not want a piece of that pie, that is your choice!
Steppa Musana Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.11.09 08:49:22 - [58] - Quote Renegade Heart wrote: Hal Morsh wrote: Where's the reward for my risk? People suggest better ships, but why throw more isk into the grinder? That obviously doesn't make sense. Incompetence should not be rewarded. There are plenty of other players who fly solo in low sec in nice ships and make nice isk out of it. If you do not want a piece of that pie, that is your choice! Hey I agree with most of this thread but the rewards even when flying right are complete crap. Fact is you DO have to dock up when a neutral comes, if not you certainly do when he enters your grid. You DO have to scout the gates and yep, another neutral in the target system. Yep... he's using combat scanner probes. This wasted time amounts to wasted ISK and you end up better off in high-sec. Well, WH probably, but high-sec more so than low. This needs to be addressed. And the mining? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Mining in lowsec...
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 473	Posted - 2014.11.09 08:49:52 - [59] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Some Rando wrote: afkalt wrote: You know, it wouldnt kill you to give the guys some advice. Check out OP's killboard page; he used to live in null-sec and has been out in low-sec shooting people on quite a few occassions. So, either he's a conplete troll or he refuses to learn how to get around space. In either case, advice is not what he needs. I typed out more or less the same response then realized you already did. So what, it takes a few seconds for me to write something useful. Did you consider the amount of people who haven't been to low and hit threads like this? People savvy enough to check killboards don't need our help. What do you think that does for their impressions of low sec? I'm sure at this point people will be foaming at the mouth to say that "if this puts them off we dont want them in even, go play wow/etcetc/rabblerabble" however I'm more pragmatic. Low is actually just fine as it is, you can make solid cash/have various good times out there, the actual problem with low is its reputation, one that caustic replies like the ones in this (and many other threads) just serve to reinforce. Eve might be "hard" (it's not) and ruthless (it is), but there is no need to act that way on the forums all the time. Even if the OP was a complete ass, which I dont think he was, helpful replies stand a chance of helping others and that is something to strive for is it not? To get even a dozen more poeple to take the leap - then tell their friends. Players have created the image of low - players are the only ones that can fix it. Fail to do so and be condemned to it being empty.
Renegade Heart Smack My Ship Up 261	Posted - 2014.11.09 08:57:23 - [60] - Quote Steppa Musana wrote: Renegade Heart wrote: Hal Morsh wrote: Where's the reward for my risk? People suggest better ships, but why throw more isk into the grinder? That obviously doesn't make sense. Incompetence should not be rewarded. There are plenty of other players who fly solo in low sec in nice ships and make nice isk out of it. If you do not want a piece of that pie, that is your choice! Hey I agree with most of this thread but the rewards even when flying right are complete crap. Fact is you DO have to dock up when a neutral comes, if not you certainly do when he enters your grid. You DO have to scout the gates and yep, another neutral in the target system. Yep... he's using combat scanner probes. This wasted time amounts to wasted ISK and you end up better off in high-sec. Well, WH probably, but high-sec more so than low. This needs to be addressed. And the mining? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Mining in lowsec... Disagree entirely. Put aside the isk per hour for a moment, and think about the fun. If you setup your base in a nice low sec area, and you get competition for the sites, you can blow them up. It is not so easy to do that in high sec, although you can gank them, but it ain't the same. So, given that low sec can provide those with the right mindset much more fun than can be had in high sec, why are people better off there again?

Tollen Gallen Glory of Reprisal Enterprise 8246	Posted - 2014.11.09 09:12:49 - [61] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: You(op) sound like Yossarian from Catch 22. I like that movie. Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 5647	Posted - 2014.11.09 09:25:36 - [62] - Quote How did lowsec become the parking lot from the movie Dawn of the Dead? What are these people doing when nobody is trying to pass through their gate camps? Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 1831	Posted - 2014.11.09 10:11:37 - [63] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: I do PI in low-sec and all I ever see are noob-ships and cynos. I make cynos in lowsec and all I ever see is Tornadoes =( Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: How did lowsec become the parking lot from the movie Dawn of the Dead? What are these people doing when nobody is trying to pass through their gate camps? I wonder about this sometimes.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6613	Posted - 2014.11.09 10:36:15 - [64] - Quote Tollen Gallen wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: You(op) sound like Yossarian from Catch 22. I like that ~~movie~~ Book. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Hal Morsh Exodus Mining Corp 180	Posted - 2014.11.09 10:38:40 - [65] - Quote Some Rando wrote: afkalt wrote: You know, it wouldnt kill you to give the guys some advice. Check out OP's killboard page; he used to live in null-sec and has been out in low-sec shooting people on quite a few occasions. So, either he's a complete troll or he refuses to learn how to get around space. In either case, advice is not what he needs. More like I used to live in lowsec. The whole null thing was me attempting to live there (not actually living in null), and leaving after I continued to lose ships. The last ship was when I decided to not lose anymore, but then somoene sitting on station had coms to a T2 frigate blob on the other side of a gate, and I just happened to be the unlucky SOB who warped too that gate. The living in lowsec was okay for a while, until the butterfly effect caused some ruckus, you know, the usual blobs, a guy with 30 alts harassing the corp to death was why I left why was no one willing to attempt a group effort? I attempted to smartbomb all those thrashers with a dominix but it was on the wrong resists, then I was recruited by another corp in the alliance, Another part of lowsec and I was looting a still active battlefield until some russians decided it funny to chase me about with interceptors. After some in life events that kept me off eve due to losing my computer. I came back and decided low wasn't a good idea anymore. I only really feel safe entering that lowsec pocket I used to live in, even with the new residents. *I enjoy a good session of mining.*
Claud Tiberius Fidelas Constans 79	Posted - 2014.11.09 11:01:49 - [66] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: snip Exploring on your own has risks. Some routes are busier than others. It takes experience and knowledge to fully navigate eve safely. Intel is power. Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 291	Posted - 2014.11.09 11:25:38 - [67] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: ...which is why I won't even bother telling you the 8 things you did wrong here. Oohh... Please tell me, I'd like to know. Send me an EVE Mail if you like...
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 845	Posted - 2014.11.09 12:35:51 - [68] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: I only really feel safe entering that lowsec pocket I used to live in, even with the new residents. Safety in EVE? Remove insurance. This thread is the reason, why CCP should stop advertising any aspect of EVE PvE
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8966	Posted - 2014.11.09 17:39:03 - [69] - Quote BrundleMeth wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: ...which is why I won't even bother telling you the 8 things you did wrong here. Oohh... Please tell me, I'd like to know. Send me an EVE Mail if you like... # 1, he installed EVE. The other 7 are availoable for 50 bucks or 4 plex (I learned to do that by watcing CCP)! But for real though, this guy doesn't have the right mentality for low and null. I just read one of his post where he said he doesn't "feel safe" in low except in the pocket he used to live in. You aren't supposed to "feel safe" ANYWHERE in EVE (I don't, this is why I've gone 7 years without getting ganked, for example). Not feeling safe is the name of the game. When a player understands that, they pay attention to the game mechanics, learns how to be safer and thus how to function in the game. What happens a lot of times, though, is that a player will prove unteachable/unable to adapt and they will then blame the game for that while removing themselves to the shallow end of EVE (high sec). I say that's not a terrible thing, not everyone is mentally agile enough to play the game in the areas of the game that don't artificially hold their hands. And I'm not totally judging here, I myself have had a hard time adapting to wormhole space, so I learned "Jenn belongs in K space" rather than complained on a public forum about how the wormholes need to change.
Paynus Maiassus Capital Munitions 161	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:02:31 - [70] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: People constantly go after me for suggesting the boogyman is around every corner in lowsec, anyone, everyone + their alts and PL dreads are all after you specifically you and only you just because you are in lowsec. So I hadn't entered lowsec in months but the content decided to send me there, and while most supposed "carebears" would not do it I decided I would, since there might be an A-type in it at the end. Lets face it though, everyone is considered a carebear of some sort by everyone else. So I get my destroyer, the first jump is clear, second jump is a full overview gatecamp, and the game decided that this was the jump to not select the next stargate but the previous stargate, so I lost my pod too. Wouldn't have mattered, I tried again with a tristan, all lows and rigs with low friction nozzle joints and nanofiber hull, lost that but jumped through. I docked at a station, but what do you know? Only t2 modules for sale in the land of bittervets who love camping. So I fit a tristan and undock instadied, figures... So I fit another one? The guy looted my wreck and left, thankfully the site was only a few frigates, but nothing dropped except a meta autocannon, i'm surprised at this point I wasn't probed down before even seeing the probed on d-scan, like what happened to my astero with that ancillary shield interceptor whom I obviously wasn't going to be able to kill because one module to rule them all ancillaries being as OP as they are. So at least I left lowsec alive, the whole gatecamp jumped through with me, but only locked me and didn't scram. Maybe they figured it wasn't worth the kill this time, and I can't even get anything off the killrights, because 2 out of the 3 have a billion + in bounty and are all minus security status, even if they entered highsec who would need the killright to shoot? Lowsec is "murphies law online". Might be a reason right there why so few use the "lowsec content". Won't be making that mistake again. Where's the reward for my risk? People suggest better ships, but why throw more isk into the grinder? That obviously doesn't make sense. Edit: fixed some of the mangled words. Low sec at a minimum requires some alts and some experience in order to be safe. That's at a minimum, but you don't need the alts or experience if you have a group of friends. That's the hostility toward carebears. There is a lot of ratting and industry done in low, even some mining, but it is generally done by groups who know their area and work together to exploit it successfully. If you just all by yourself decide to dive on in to low sec, you have about as much chance of getting your butt handed to you as a guy who closes his eyes and dives off the side of a building has of hitting the ground in a painful way. It's not that the game is broken, it's that your play style and/or your social group is not suited for low. I'm not digging at you. Stay in highest if you want. Highseccers are important for the game. We need those loot drops and that ore. But if you want to go to low, join a corp that operates there. Make sure they are a corp that doesn't make their ISK on high sec alts. Most low sec corps like a certain amount of PvP involvement, but with some effort you'll be able to find a corp that will support you as a low sec ratter. Eve is a game with a learning curve. You just gotta learn low sec if you want to be there. It's better to live there than just head there once in a while for a lark. After you've lived there and know how low sec works, you can move back to high and use your knowledge to foray into low on occasion. Also, protip: You can fit a fitted frigate in the fleet hangar bay of a Deep Space Transport. You can also package one and fit it with modules in a Blockade Runner. Those ships are suited to going through low sec border systems. Low sec in a lot of cases, gets less dangerous the deeper into it you go. The border systems from high to low, especially on 'pipelines' are quite often very heavily camped. But you'll find out about this from a good low sec corp if you join one.

Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 91	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:12:31 - [71] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec. It would result in much, much less conflict. Because one of the few places you can actually catch people is on gates. And as for making people want to live in lowsec, the solution is simple. Highsec needs to be savagely nerfed, so it doesn't overshadow lowsec. Highsec has been nerfed enough, buff low and null. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10551	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:16:28 - [72] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec. It would result in much, much less conflict. Because one of the few places you can actually catch people is on gates. And as for making people want to live in lowsec, the solution is simple. Highsec needs to be savagely nerfed, so it doesn't overshadow lowsec. Highsec has been nerfed enough, buff low and null. No. Inflation is a bad thing. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 251	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:39:20 - [73] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec. It would result in much, much less conflict. Because one of the few places you can actually catch people is on gates. And as for making people want to live in lowsec, the solution is simple. Highsec needs to be savagely nerfed, so it doesn't overshadow lowsec. Highsec has been nerfed enough, buff low and null. Nullsec is already more profitable and less risky than highsec. The problem with lowsec isn't rewards, its the pathetic gatecamps that stifle play. If anything highsec needs massive buffs to counteract the gankers/wardeccers/awoxers, etc.... and to make it more profitable than ultra safe blue donut space.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10551	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:49:52 - [74] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: The problem with lowsec isn't rewards, its the pathetic gatecamps that stifle play. Then there is no problem. I rolled through half of Caldari lowsec this morning with an alt in a Recon Cruiser. I had to turn my cloak on maybe six times the whole trip, and that was just a precaution. Didn't see a gatecamp of any description. Quote: If anything highsec needs massive buffs to counteract the gankers/wardeccers/awoxers, etc.... and to make it more profitable than ultra safe blue donut space. The opposite is true. If anything it needs nerfed to counteract the true causes of inflation. Chief among them are those incursion runners who just sit around and grind all day, bringing everyone else's plex prices up with their fattening themselves in complete safety. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 251	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:58:32 - [75] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The opposite is true. If anything it needs nerfed to counteract the true causes of inflation. Chief among them are those incursion runners who just sit around and grind all day, bringing everyone else's plex prices up with their fattening themselves in complete safety. Such nonsense, if incursions were flooding eve with cheap isk not only would plex be inflating but SO WOULD EVERYTHING ELSE AT AN EQUAL RATE. Instead, everything else is actually DEFLATING. Diagnosis - too much easy mining (especially in nullsec) and TOO LITTLE NEW ISK. What you should really advocate for is higher highsec incursion rewards to balance the excessive mining and combat the dangerous deflation that is driving up plex prices.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10551	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:03:49 - [76] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Such nonsense, if incursions were flooding eve with cheap isk not only would plex be inflating but SO WOULD EVERYTHING ELSE AT AN EQUAL RATE. Economics, learn some. Quote: Instead, everything else is actually DEFLATING. If true, good. But I imagine that has more to do with the last few patches and the industry changes more than anything else. Quote: Diagnosis - too much easy mining (especially in nullsec) and TOO LITTLE NEW ISK. Considering that the vast, vast majority of mining goes on in highsec, looks like we need to buff ganking. Quote: What you should really advocate for is higher highsec incursion rewards to balance the excessive mining and combat the dangerous deflation that is driving up plex prices. Deflation does not drive up prices. Especially not with currency that is pretty much only backed by one substance. Did you even go to highschool? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 251	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:08:00 - [77] - Quote Seriously? Do you have any grasp of economics? Try to figure this one out. Mining increases....resources become more common...as do ships and mods. Thus it takes less effort to acquire them. This means that their time value decreases, as does their $$$ value. The $$$ price of plex is fixed. Thus, we would expect the isk price of plex to go up and isk price of ships/mods to go down. Oh gee....exactly what is happening. And nothing to do with Eve flooding with isk, which would keep the $$$ of ships/mods fixed, and would mean that the isk price of plex and ships/mods would both increase in equal proportion. But hey, yo, simple economics, highschool, and it's obviously those incursion runners.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10552	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:11:18 - [78] - Quote Keep defending the golden goose, Tears. But we all know that increasing average wealth without corresponding loss causes inflation. That's pretty much the definition. And the major culprit of that is highsec incursions, since it's the most consistent personal income in the game. You guys are printing money there, thanks largely to the over buffed safety of highsec. You fatten yourselves up at the expense of the rest of the game. Despicable. [edit: Are you freaking serious? "less effort to acquire them results in higher prices"? So, easier to obtain somehow leads to more scarcity? Are you high again? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 251	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:13:20 - [79] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Keep defending the golden goose, Tears. But we all know that increasing average wealth without corresponding loss causes inflation. That's pretty much the definition. And the major culprit of that is highsec incursions, since it's the most consistent personal income in the game. You guys are printing money there, thanks largely to the over buffed safety of highsec. You fatten yourselves up at the expense of the rest of the game. Despicable. Actually if the supply of stuff is INCREASING faster than the supply of ISK, that's called DELFATION not INFLATION. Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation, it's about the relative ratio of isk to stuff. I mean seriously, learn economics. Also, bounties eclipse incursions by a 3-1 ratio, so if there was inflation (which of course there isn't), the culprit would be the folks in null AFK ratting, not incursion runners.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10552	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:16:41 - [80] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation You heard it here folks. Inflation has nothing to do with currency devaluation. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 252	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:22:32 - [81] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation You heard it here folks. Inflation has nothing to do with currency devaluation. Currency devaluation???? Relative to what? That requires foreign currencies...eve has none.....I mean come on. If stuff is deflating (or deflating relative to Plex) that means that the rate of material growth exceeds the rate of isk growth. Your enemy should be mining, not incursions (and if isk growth really was your target, you should go after bounties). Edit - maybe you mean currency depreciation? But that also requires foreign currencies....and this would not explain inflation/deflation in a self contained economy relative to goods.
Kaely Tanniss Aurora Novae Aetatis 58	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:00:01 - [82] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation You heard it here folks. Inflation has nothing to do with currency devaluation. Currency devaluation???? Relative to what? That requires foreign currencies...eve has none.....I mean come on. If stuff is deflating (or deflating relative to Plex) that means that the rate of material growth exceeds the rate of isk growth. Your enemy should be mining, not incursions (and if isk growth really was your target, you should go after bounties). Edit - maybe you mean currency depreciation? But that also requires foreign currencies....and this would not explain inflation/deflation in a self contained economy relative to goods. Wait...what? So now you're an economic expert too Veers? You ARE one of the incursion runners...so of course you'd defend those actions. I have nothing against lucrative aspects of Eve..I do however have issues with the ability to do so without any risk. I know all too well how incursion fleets work..there is little risk unless you take someone who doesn't know what they're doing. Like Kaarous said, it is being used as an isk press and it is hurting the market..which honestly, I don't care about..but others do. The solution would be to make incursions occur only in low or null sec...then the risk would be equal to the rewards imo...you wouldn't dare fly that shiny nightmare into a lowsec/nullsec pocket..now that's risk vs reward.. If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 252	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:16:06 - [83] - Quote Kaely Tanniss wrote: Wait...what? So now you're an economic expert too Veers? You ARE one of the incursion runners...so of course you'd defend those actions. I have nothing against lucrative aspects of Eve..I do however have issues with the ability to do so without any risk. I know all too well how incursion fleets work..there is little risk unless you take someone who doesn't know what they're doing. Like Kaarous said, it is being used as an isk press and it is hurting the market..which honestly, I don't care about..but others do. The solution would be to make incursions occur only in low or null sec...then the risk would be equal to the rewards imo...you wouldn't dare fly that shiny nightmare into a lowsec/nullsec pocket..now that's risk vs reward.. Huh? Another deeply confused comment. And yes, I am an economic expert. Thanks for completely failing to refute the actual argument. As to the rest....Incursions are far, far risker than L4s, than AFK carrier ratting in Deklein, than AFK mining in sov null, than escalations in well controlled wormhole space, etc... Basically, the player powerblocs have made their space vastly safer than empire can ever be. The market is not "hurting" as prices are dropping, not rising. I'm not sure how you determine "hurt," but I would suggest doing at least a bit of market research before spouting absurdities. I mean, prices are falling, but incursions (far less isk generated than bounties) are somehow "hurting" the market. There are incursions in low sec. Guess what happens....2 groups monopolize them and have a non-agression pact. This is good for the game how exactly? But your brilliant solution is to move even more content out of highsec and into player controlled space, where no one but members of the big power blocs can participate. And you wonder why CCP is worried about people in highsec getting bored and quitting the game. I mean if you care about risk/reward you should be advocating turning Deklein into a desolate wasteland where only L1s are available, and mining is impossible. But gee, somehow I don't see you doing that. It wouldn't really fit in with your nerf highsec agenda or crazy economic arguments.
Serene Repose 1604	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:56:49 - [84] - Quote You haven't figured this out yet? People who try to goad you into low sec are waiting there with their buddies to GANK YOU. It never ceases to amaze me how many people will let their EGOS be their GUIDES. Are you NUTS? Speaking of nuts...that other thing...yes, your other head..."I'm a BIGGER man!" That has gotten more people into an early grave than cigarettes. Low sec as an obligation to prove....One day you guys will learn. But, I ain't holdin' my breath. Neither are my sisters of the world. Get to enjoy Mary Fivefingers. She's your buddy for life. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Andreus Ixiris Duty. Circle-Of-Two 4829	Posted - 2014.11.10 06:22:51 - [85] - Quote The real reason not to go to lowsec has very little to do with the danger. The danger's just a tangiental factor. The real reason not to go to lowsec is that for a significant hike in danger you don't get very much that you can't get in hisec, whereas for a not-so-significant hike in danger over lowsec you could go to nullsec and get way better stuff. In essence the real reason not to go to low-sec is it's the least interesting place in the game. Mane 614
Nami Kumamato School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 312	Posted - 2014.11.10 08:50:02 - [86] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: People constantly go after me for suggesting the boogyman is around every corner in lowsec, anyone, everyone + their alts and PL dreads are all after you specifically you and only you just because you are in lowsec. So I hadn't entered lowsec in months but the content decided to send me there, and while most supposed "carebears" would not do it I decided I would, since there might be an A-type in it at the end. Lets face it though, everyone is considered a carebear of some sort by everyone else. So I get my destroyer, the first jump is clear, second jump is a full overview gatecamp, and the game decided that this was the jump to not select the next stargate but the previous stargate, so I lost my pod too. Wouldn't have mattered, I tried again with a tristan, all lows and rigs with low friction nozzle joints and nanofiber hull, lost that but jumped through. I docked at a station, but what do you know? Only t2 modules for sale in the land of bittervets who love camping. So I fit a tristan and undock instadied, figures... So I fit another one? The guy looted my wreck and left, thankfully the site was only a few frigates, but nothing dropped except a meta autocannon, i'm surprised at this point I wasn't probed down before even seeing the probed on d-scan, like what happened to my astero with that ancillary shield interceptor whom I obviously wasn't going to be able to kill because one module to rule them all ancillaries being as OP as they are. So at least I left lowsec alive, the whole gatecamp jumped through with me, but only locked me and didn't scram. Maybe they figured it wasn't worth the kill this time, and I can't even get anything off the killrights, because 2 out of the 3 have a billion + in bounty and are all minus security status, even if they entered highsec who would need the killright to shoot? Lowsec is "murphies law online". Might be a reason right there why so few use the "lowsec content". Won't be making that mistake again. Where's the reward for my risk? People suggest better ships, but why throw more isk into the grinder? That obviously doesn't make sense. Edit: fixed some of the mangled words. I don't know much about this game, but I've been exploring in Low and Null for some time, and honestly, if you're smart usually you get away with whatever you're trying to do. All I can say is that if you're strolling around without cloak - you will die! If you don't make Dotlan maps your friend - you will die! If you jump to 0 - you will die! If you dont manual pilot - you will die! That or fly an Inty. If you're one lonely Destroyer frolicking in the meadows of "lol-sec" TM looking for content - chances are that the Big Bad Wolf is right around the corner. [i]"And now my ship is oh so cloaked and fit It never felt so good, I never felt so hid"[/i] - Ramona McCandless, Untitled
BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 291	Posted - 2014.11.10 11:34:13 - [87] - Quote This is really an AFK cloaking thread isn't it?
Darth Schweinebacke Caldari Provisions Caldari State 14	Posted - 2014.11.10 11:57:54 - [88] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: As to the rest....Incursions are far, far risker than L4s, than AFK carrier ratting in Deklein, than AFK mining in sov null, than escalations in well controlled wormhole space, etc... Basically, the player powerblocs have made their space vastly safer than empire can ever be. The only risk in incursions is letting logi pilots into your fleet who do not know wtf they are doing which can easily be mitigated by using them as extra logi pilot on grid while you keep your trusted logis on field (Veers: but that is bad for the ISK / hour) Who cares? Risk in eve can not be measured on the possibility of someone in your fleet being stupid but rather the possibilty of other players interfering with your business and the risk of that happening in 0.0 or LS is by far larger than it is in high sec. If 0.0 is made safer than high sec this is only achieved by actually investing time into doing so, while in high sec you get the biggest chunk of your safety handed to you by ccp. And in 0.0 even with intel channels and everything the risk still remains and you need to constanlty pay attention to local and intel channels, while in high sec in most cases you only have to worry if you make yourself a target. Also not everyone who would want to make ISK in 0.0 is in an alliance and has access to intel channels, should those people not be rewarded for taking a much larger risk than people in high sec? btw. you sound a lot like IZ (if not even exactly like that)
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 481	Posted - 2014.11.10 12:58:35 - [89] - Quote Darth Schweinebacke wrote: while in high sec in most cases you only have to worry if you make yourself a target. Couple of things: That bar is a LOW lower than it once was. A couple of faction damage mods will do it. Secondly - the population in high sec actually works against you. You can't always tell the threats. For example I saw about 15 catalysts undock from a mission hub the other month. All <31 days old characters, all in NPCs corps their whole life. Off they go on a killing rampage. Point I'm getting at was that local wont help you, Dscan is of greatly reduced use due to the clutter on it too. Whereas when I'm in low/null if it's not blue.....well....and I get the luxury of calling in the cav to pre-emptively pop threats should I so desire - or POSing up in a bubble of GTFO There is a lot to this, many variables are in play around the term "safety" but high sec is not as "safe" as people like to claim (this is no complaint from me), a LOT of people die in high sec. If you forced me to categorise it I'd say you're at less risk of a ship loss in low/null when not actively seeking PvP, but at a higher risk of inconvenience to your activities compared to high. But that is just my personal experience and how I approach each area of space. My PvE ships have come closer to death in high sec than they ever have in null/low due to ease of threat identification.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 829	Posted - 2014.11.10 13:13:38 - [90] - Quote The problem with lowsec is that pretty much everyone there has 100+ mil SP and think their gangsters. Not today spaghetti.

Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8969	Posted - 2014.11.10 13:23:41 - [91] - Quote afkalt wrote: Darth Schweinebacke wrote: while in high sec in most cases you only have to worry if you make yourself a target. Couple of things: That bar is a LOW lower than it once was. A couple of faction damage mods will do it. Secondly - the population in high sec actually works against you. You can't always tell the threats. For example I saw about 15 catalysts undock from a mission hub the other month. All <31 days old characters, all in NPCs corps their whole life. Off they go on a killing rampage. Point I'm getting at was that local wont help you, Dscan is of greatly reduced use due to the clutter on it too. Whereas when I'm in low/null if it's not blue.....well....and I get the luxury of calling in the cav to pre-emptively pop threats should I so desire - or POSing up in a bubble of GTFO There is a lot to this, many variables are in play around the term "safety" but high sec is not as "safe" as people like to claim (this is no complaint from me), a LOT of people die in high sec. If you forced me to categorise it I'd say you're at less risk of a ship loss in low/null when not actively seeking PvP, but at a higher risk of inconvenience to your activities compared to high. But that is just my personal experience and how I approach each area of space. My PvE ships have come closer to death in high sec than they ever have in null/low due to ease of threat identification. That's the same as saying the Ghetto is safer than the rich neighborhood because at least in the ghetto you see the gang bangers coming where are in the rich neighborhood any dude named Chad of chick named Buffy could up and gank you at any moment. D-scan does protect you in high sec, I use it all the time in Lanngisi, Osmon and Apanake (whichever one i'm in at the time). Set to 250k kilometers, see tornado, Catalyst or similar ship on scan, that means warp NOW. On top of that, ALL you need to do is make sure you have enough EHP to withstand a standard gank and have something (ecm drones, neut, something) that can break 1 or 2 of the gankers and you live while they die. Hell, just use a microjump drive, stay away from the mission's warp in and MJD away if you see (or feel) the heat coming around the corner. It's so ridiculously easy to survive in space where magical space cops appear out of no where to save you (if you have enough EHP to survive long enough) it's downright silly. No so anywhere else in EVE, that's why the last time CCP gave us any numbers, high sec had the smallest portion of pvp deaths while having the largest character population (that means that it's so safe it's crazy). The idea that high sec isn't the safest space in the game is worse than a misconception or mis-perception, it's an outright lie.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8969	Posted - 2014.11.10 13:37:15 - [92] - Quote Andreus Ixiris wrote: The real reason not to go to lowsec has very little to do with the danger. The danger's just a tangiental factor. The real reason not to go to lowsec is that for a significant hike in danger you don't get very much that you can't get in hisec, whereas for a not-so-significant hike in danger over lowsec you could go to nullsec and get way better stuff. In essence the real reason not to go to low-sec is it's the least interesting place in the game. And this is also not true. Low sec is the second most lucrative part of space (after high end wormholes, however wormholes require high end organization to pull isk out of, in low sec every thing can be done purely solo). Low sec is the only space in the game where a paper thin Attack Battlecruiser can earn you 300 mil isk per hour after converting LP. And all while watching asian chicks shake what little their mommas gave them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBGbeRncBDw . That same ABC might net you 60 mil isk per hour in null) . Low sec is the ONLY place (with the exception of stage 3 of a Fleet Staging point escalation in sov null or a CONCORD blockade mission in npc null) where you can use capital ships to make isk. Carrier blitzing makes me 500 mil an hour on a bad day (more than a bil an hour under favorable LP store market conditions). That SAME carrier MIGHT make you 150-200 mil in null sec if you have access to an upgraded sov null system. FW low sec is the only place in the game where a Stealth Bomber, Caracal or Drake will earn you more than 80 million isk per hour. Low sec is the only place to reliably get the complexes that drop mid level deadpsace invuls and such etc etc etc. Given that all this can be done completely solo (which is how i usually do it unless doing lvl 5 missions with a corp mate in order to 'rubber band' standings so agent standings never get too low), Low sec is the most lucrative place in EVE right now, by a serious long shot. Even CCPs recent tuning up (and turning up) of escalation chances from null anomalies can't put a dent in the insane isk you can drag out of low sec after watching like 2 videos and reading an EVE uni forum post lol.
Darth Schweinebacke Caldari Provisions Caldari State 14	Posted - 2014.11.10 13:42:13 - [93] - Quote [quote=afkalt] Whereas when I'm in low/null if it's not blue.....well....and I get the luxury of calling in the cav to pre-emptively pop threats should I so desire - or POSing up in a bubble of GTFO [:) [/quote} Nobody stops you from setting up anti-gank intel channels in high sec as well. Nobody stops you from getting organised and killing suicide gankers when they jump into your system, undock from a station, warp to you. You have the same tools available as ppl in 0.0 + the extra layer of protection that high sec offers -> less dangerous/risky. There is a lot to this, many variables are in play around the term "safety" but high sec is not as "safe" as people like to claim (this is no complaint from me), a LOT of people die in high sec. [/quote} I will never claim high sec is safe, but I claim that it is a lot safer than low and 0.0. [quote=afkalt] If you forced me to categorise it I'd say you're at less risk of a ship loss in low/null when not actively seeking PvP, but at a higher risk of inconvenience to your activities compared to high. [/quote} No, totally not true. By the default game mechanics the risk to lose a ship no matter if it is PvP fitted or PvE fitted is higher. If people invest time and effort to mitigate the risk in 0.0 they earned the extra safety unlike high sec where you get extra safety by default. The difference is, ppl in 0.0 are willing to use the tools available to them to reduce the risk, while a large part of the high sec population only wants to grind ISK in complete security and can not be bothered in using the very same tools.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8969	Posted - 2014.11.10 13:49:58 - [94] - Quote Darth Schweinebacke wrote: The difference is, ppl in 0.0 are willing to use the tools available to them to reduce the risk, while a large part of the high sec population only wants to grind ISK in complete security and can not be bothered in using the very same tools. Don't even get me started lol (too late). I once posted a mach fit in a thread in the missions and complexes forum and one dude ridiculed me for having a heavy neut on it. I explained that the heavy neut helps kill NPC battleships by lowering their chance to rep, and it's also in case someone tries to gank me, i can neut out the guy pointing me or if they use ships with guns that use cap and can take one of the ganking ships out of the equation, giving me a better chance of surviving till CONCORD arrives. i also explained that i don't fly a ship with less than 130k ehp in an 0.5 system and that every ship I use that has a drone bay as 5 ecm drones just in case. The idea of protecting one's own self in the manner that I do is like blasphemy to many in the high sec pve crowd. "But i'm in high sec, the game should protect me" is what they think. This is why I like gankers (treasonous as that statement may be from someone who shoots red crosses for fun), they exploit and PUNISH that kind of stupid, entitled, 1st world thinking.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 481	Posted - 2014.11.10 14:25:46 - [95] - Quote You misunderstood my point - I was simply saying that the danger is much easier to see in low/null and I have never and probably will never lose a PvE ship there as a result. I seriously doubt I'll lose one in high sec either, but for me it is more likely. There is so much background noise in high sec you'd be paralysed with inaction to be as safe as you are in other sec. Hence my remark about being less likely to die in low/null than high in a 'bearing capacity. Perhaps it is simply an opinion thing I'm not conveying well.
Darth Schweinebacke Caldari Provisions Caldari State 14	Posted - 2014.11.10 14:34:59 - [96] - Quote afkalt wrote: You misunderstood my point - I was simply saying that the danger is much easier to see in low/null and I have never and probably will never lose a PvE ship there as a result. I seriously doubt I'll lose one in high sec either, but for me it is more likely. There is so much background noise in high sec you'd be paralysed with inaction to be as safe as you are in other sec. Hence my remark about being less likely to die in low/null than high in a 'bearing capacity. Perhaps it is simply an opinion thing I'm not conveying well. The thing is... outside of high sec you are forced to pay attention to what is happening around you, because of the much higher risk, while in high sec there is risk, but the risk is a lot lower which leads to people paying a lot less attention to their environment. Groups being capable of killing high EHP ships are quite easy to spot and avoid as well, as long as you pay attention. Groupse that are capable of ganking these kinds of ships usually are quite well known and if people do not set standings to easily spot them or hang out in systems regularly with a local so full of ppl that it is almost impossible to stop them, then it is their own fault, but that has not much to do with high sec being more dangerous than 0.0 or LS, which is what Veers and that individual he behaves like are pretending over and over again.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 481	Posted - 2014.11.10 14:45:51 - [97] - Quote Darth Schweinebacke wrote: afkalt wrote: You misunderstood my point - I was simply saying that the danger is much easier to see in low/null and I have never and probably will never lose a PvE ship there as a result. I seriously doubt I'll lose one in high sec either, but for me it is more likely. There is so much background noise in high sec you'd be paralysed with inaction to be as safe as you are in other sec. Hence my remark about being less likely to die in low/null than high in a 'bearing capacity. Perhaps it is simply an opinion thing I'm not conveying well. The thing is... outside of high sec you are forced to pay attention to what is happening around you, because of the much higher risk, while in high sec there is risk, but the risk is a lot lower which leads to people paying a lot less attention to their environment. Yes and no. The point I was going for is that it is easier to pay attention outside of high sec because of the lack of white noise. Basically. I actually pay more heed in high sec than null when in system due to the massive traffic flux in high sec, scanning local takes a scroll bar(!) to see if known threats are about/short dscanning to watch for probes (which may or may not be on you, or the rattlesnake next door, or the paladin maybe). Whereas in null, if local moves an inch - you know what to do. I actually find it more work to stay safe in high sec than I do in null for reasons like this. Which is fine, I don't have a problem with it, just trying to explain it a bit more clearly (I'm rarely at odds with Jenn ). I still feel I'm not explaining it very well, hopefully getting there though. Edit: You're right many gankers are known, but as I've seen myself, a fleet of catalysts with a bunch of unaffiliated new accounts in them...less easy to foresee.
Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 218	Posted - 2014.11.10 15:12:19 - [98] - Quote Tollen Gallen wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: You(op) sound like Yossarian from Catch 22. I like that movie. I like the book better. Movie is good, book is brilliant.
Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 218	Posted - 2014.11.10 15:19:00 - [99] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Mharius Skjem wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Buffed up sentry guns would end these stupid gate camps, and create more conflict in the systems rather than just gatecamp massacres. Might make people actually WANT to LIVE in lowsec. It would result in much, much less conflict. Because one of the few places you can actually catch people is on gates. And as for making people want to live in lowsec, the solution is simple. Highsec needs to be savagely nerfed, so it doesn't overshadow lowsec. Highsec has been nerfed enough, buff low and null. Nullsec is already more profitable and less risky than highsec. The problem with lowsec isn't rewards, its the pathetic gatecamps that stifle play. If anything highsec needs massive buffs to counteract the gankers/wardeccers/awoxers, etc.... and to make it more profitable than ultra safe blue donut space. You are delusional. Seek help.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 55	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:07:51 - [100] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Keep defending the golden goose, Tears. But we all know that increasing average wealth without corresponding loss causes inflation. That's pretty much the definition. And the major culprit of that is highsec incursions, since it's the most consistent personal income in the game. You guys are printing money there, thanks largely to the over buffed safety of highsec. You fatten yourselves up at the expense of the rest of the game. Despicable. [edit: Are you freaking serious? "less effort to acquire them results in higher prices"? So, easier to obtain somehow leads to more scarcity? Are you high again? Actually, most of the isk printing comes from the null-bears farming npcs in the safest part of Eve....null-sec.

Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 254	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:32:00 - [101] - Quote Darth Schweinebacke wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: As to the rest....Incursions are far, far risker than L4s, than AFK carrier ratting in Deklein, than AFK mining in sov null, than escalations in well controlled wormhole space, etc... Basically, the player powerblocs have made their space vastly safer than empire can ever be. The only risk in incursions is letting logi pilots into your fleet who do not know wtf they are doing which can easily be mitigated by using them as extra logi pilot on grid while you keep your trusted logis on field (Veers: but that is bad for the ISK / hour) Who cares? Risk in eve can not be measured on the possibility of someone in your fleet being stupid but rather the possibilty of other players interfering with your business and the risk of that happening in 0.0 or LS is by far larger than it is in high sec. If 0.0 is made safer than high sec this is only achieved by actually investing time into doing so, while in high sec you get the biggest chunk of your safety handed to you by ccp. And in 0.0 even with intel channels and everything the risk still remains and you need to constanlty pay attention to local and intel channels, while in high sec in most cases you only have to worry if you make yourself a target. Also not everyone who would want to make ISK in 0.0 is in an alliance and has access to intel channels, should those people not be rewarded for taking a much larger risk than people in high sec? btw. you sound a lot like IZ (if not even exactly like that) Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game. Running extra logi is stupid, and means you would be much better off blitzing SOE L4s (which is already higher isk/hour if you account for time spent moving, no fleet, half empty fleet, etc...) Who cares if 0.0 is safe because the big alliances made a huge blue donut? There are far more tools to ensure safety there. Bubbles, docking denials, ability to shoot on sight, etc.... Highsec is far scarier than Deklein...and the fact is that in highsec people would be afraid to AFK rat in carriers. CODE would salivate at that one. Alliances are easy to join and are crippling the game. If you care about risk/reward, you need to nerf Deklein and the like into oblivion. Of course you don't really care about risk/reward, all you care about is nerfing highsec, so we will never see you propose to abolish all mining, missions, and ratting in Deklein to account for it's total safety. And I have no idea who IZ is, sorry.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 483	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:50:12 - [102] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 254	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:56:44 - [103] - Quote afkalt wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 483	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:59:33 - [104] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: afkalt wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers. It is no wonder people ridicule you, it's obvious you have no idea what you're on about. People lose caps to sleepers. Incursions indeed....pfffffffft. Put on the big boy pants and go try it.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 254	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:04:45 - [105] - Quote afkalt wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: afkalt wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers. It is no wonder people ridicule you, it's obvious you have no idea what you're on about. People lose caps to sleepers. Incursions indeed....pfffffffft. Put on the big boy pants and go try it. The wormhole aggro is extremely easy to handle. The fleet doctrines to comfortably handle these sites are trivial. And the isk/hour (200 mil + in a C6) is unmatched in the game. I have run some wormhole sites, I found them boring, repetitive, and virtually risk free as long as you have good control over the hole.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8970	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:05:22 - [106] - Quote afkalt wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF You can tell that the guy never experienced most of the other PVE he talks about, and that's where he outs himself as a poser. Incursion (especially high sec incursions) is one of the safer PVe activities, most incursions runners will never lose so much as a single logi ship running them.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8970	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:07:15 - [107] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: afkalt wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: afkalt wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers. It is no wonder people ridicule you, it's obvious you have no idea what you're on about. People lose caps to sleepers. Incursions indeed....pfffffffft. Put on the big boy pants and go try it. The wormhole aggro is extremely easy to handle. The fleet doctrines to comfortably handle these sites are trivial. And the isk/hour (200 mil + in a C6) is unmatched in the game. I have run some wormhole sites, I found them boring, repetitive, and virtually risk free as long as you have good control over the hole. And then you keep outing yourself as someone unfamiliar with PVE. 200 mil is "unmatched in the game"? LOL, what game are you playing?
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 254	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:08:54 - [108] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: And then you keep outing yourself as someone unfamiliar with PVE. 200 mil is "unmatched in the game"? LOL, what game are you playing? I said 200 mil + (the C6 folks say its closer to 250 mil - I'm skeptical....) - what other activity done on a regular basis gives you that kind of isk? Remember our null friends cry that they can't match the 100 mil/hour from running L4s in highsec. Edit - also remember that we are talking about activities with virtually no risk - which would not be true for L5s, escalations, etc... in NPC null.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8971	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:17:48 - [109] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: And then you keep outing yourself as someone unfamiliar with PVE. 200 mil is "unmatched in the game"? LOL, what game are you playing? I said 200 mil + (the C6 folks say its closer to 250 mil - I'm skeptical....) - what other activity done on a regular basis gives you that kind of isk? Remember our null friends cry that they can't match the 100 mil/hour from running L4s in highsec. Edit - also remember that we are talking about activities with virtually no risk - which would not be true for L5s, escalations, etc... in NPC null. Try 600 mil per character in C6s. Try 500 to a bil an hour in low sec lvl 5s (blitzing, with a carrier). Try up to 600 mil in faction warfare with a bomber, drake or caracal (down to 350 mil ish now for the 2 factions I have toons in, but hell, it's still worth the occasional stealth bomber loss). Hell, you can blitz burner missions for 300 mil per hour and lets not even start on the 300 mil per hour low sec mission blitzing with cheap ships That's the problem with you Veers, you speak with authority about things yet you don't know what you are talking about. Rather than learn something about a topic, you spew off as if you know about it already, which is why you never learn or get better. if you spend more time listening and less time posting, you might not be so odious. Oh, and this post on reddit is pretty good. http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/24ddbs/what_are_better_ways_of_making_isk_than_hq/ Quote: [GÇô]Lords_ServantGuristas 21 points 6 months ago Per single character: FW Mission Blitzing - 100m-600m C5/C6 Anoms - 400-600m/hr Lvl 5 blitzing - 100-500m/hr Lvl 4 losec blitzing for good corp - 150-300m/hr Pirate Lvl 4s - 200-400m/hr c4 Anom Blitzing - 100-350m/hr c3 anom blitzing - 100-200m/hr Pubbie Carrier Ratting - 100-150m isk/hr Some require multiple ppl or chars, but those are the breakdowns on a per character basis. I left out a unique method of running nullsec anoms, as that requires multiboxed characters, but it makes 150-250m/hour per character, depending on if you run escalations - but those aren't really said anoms tbh. "(200 mil + in a C6) is unmatched in the game. " lol, poser.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 254	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:23:30 - [110] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: And then you keep outing yourself as someone unfamiliar with PVE. 200 mil is "unmatched in the game"? LOL, what game are you playing? I said 200 mil + (the C6 folks say its closer to 250 mil - I'm skeptical....) - what other activity done on a regular basis gives you that kind of isk? Remember our null friends cry that they can't match the 100 mil/hour from running L4s in highsec. Edit - also remember that we are talking about activities with virtually no risk - which would not be true for L5s, escalations, etc... in NPC null. Try 600 mil per character in C6s. Try 500 to a bil an hour in low sec lvl 5s (blitzing, with a carrier). Try up to 600 mil in faction warfare with a bomber, drake or caracal (down to 350 mil ish now for the 2 factions I have toons in, but hell, it's still worth the occasional stealth bomber loss). Hell, you can blitz burner missions for 300 mil per hour and lets not even start on the 300 mil per hour low sec mission blitzing with cheap ships That's the problem with you Veers, you speak with authority about things yet you don't know what you are talking about. Rather than learn something about a topic, you spew off as if you know about it already, which is why you never learn or get better. if you spend more time listening and less time posting, you might not be so odious. Oh nonsense, you are really clueless about this game Jenn. You just make up funny numbers and wonder why people don't take you seriously. No one is making 600 mil per char in C6s....and L5's are very dangerous in lowsec (pirates love people who run them!), and even fw runners are getting ganked. There is a reason Goon alts are blitzing L4s for 100 mil/hour - the other things you mention are not safe, are a limited resource, and usually require participation in some kind of alliance. Ask yourself - if these activities were so lucrative, why would we see so many threads here whining about L4 & incursion rewards in highsec???? I mean seriously, get a clue. That's the problem with you - you talk a lot, but even a bit of thinking before posting you don't do!

Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8971	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:33:58 - [111] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Oh nonsense, you are really clueless about this game Jenn. You just make up funny numbers and wonder why people don't take you seriously. No one is making 600 mil per char in C6s....and L5's are very dangerous in lowsec (pirates love people who run them!), and even fw runners are getting ganked. There is a reason Goon alts are blitzing L4s for 100 mil/hour - the other things you mention are not safe, are a limited resource, and usually require participation in some kind of alliance. Ask yourself - if these activities were so lucrative, why would we see so many threads here whining about L4 & incursion rewards in highsec???? I mean seriously, get a clue. That's the problem with you - you talk a lot, but even a bit of thinking before posting you don't do! There it is, that 'backfire post' you used to do with another character when a shot on the forum would hit home lol. You know, where you try to turn around your cluelessness as if it were someone else doing it. We see you Divine Entervention. How can i 'make up' numbers other people have documented? Did I make up this youtube video? Or this post? Or the reddit I linked? Or maybe I made up this link in the wormhole section of these forums that is STICKIED by the forum admins for all to see? Meanwhile, not a single shred of evidence from you lol...... Not.a.shred. I know being outed as someone who is lying on a video game forum must hurt, but it's not my fault Mr. "200 mil is unmatched in the game" LOL.
Darth Schweinebacke Caldari Provisions Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:34:27 - [112] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game. Running extra logi is stupid, and means you would be much better off blitzing SOE L4s (which is already higher isk/hour if you account for time spent moving, no fleet, half empty fleet, etc...) I did run my own incursion fleet for quite some time (some ppl still might remember scrubfleet -> the people who started the whole armor vindi thing) and the only people who lost ships were people who made mistakes like running into sites before the fleet was ready. And as predicted -> extra logi is stupid because of less ISK / hour. Taking precautions when flying with unknown ppl is not acceptable when it hits your isk / hour ratio. I can only laugh about that. Just because you refuse to do what it takes to reduce the risk, it does not mean that it is not possible, and 1 extra ship does not hurt the payout as much as you pretend, at least not when the rest of the fleet is a proper fleet. Veers Belvar wrote: Who cares if 0.0 is safe because the big alliances made a huge blue donut? There are far more tools to ensure safety there. Bubbles, docking denials, ability to shoot on sight, etc.... Highsec is far scarier than Deklein...and the fact is that in highsec people would be afraid to AFK rat in carriers. CODE would salivate at that one. The blue donut only makes 0.0 boring as hell and while it reduces the number of people coming after you it does not change the fact that people have to put effort into securing their space while high sec is relativly safe by default. Also lol at CODE killing AFK ratting carriers. Do you even have any idea how expansive it would be to suicide a carrier? Veers Belvar wrote: Alliances are easy to join and are crippling the game. If you care about risk/reward, you need to nerf Deklein and the like into oblivion. Of course you don't really care about risk/reward, all you care about is nerfing highsec, so we will never see you propose to abolish all mining, missions, and ratting in Deklein to account for it's total safety. Sure I care about risk / reward: Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 21469	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:50:39 - [113] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: That's the problem with you - you talk a lot, but even a bit of thinking before posting you don't do! This thread isn't about you. 100M-150M+ an hour is attainable in a c3/c4, I don't see a much greater income in a c5/c6 being outside the realms of possibility, especially if people are escalating sites with capitals, the escalations don't occur in c4 and below IIRC. "Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4138	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:56:36 - [114] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: And I have no idea who IZ is, sorry. i forgive you
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 254	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:57:54 - [115] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Oh nonsense, you are really clueless about this game Jenn. You just make up funny numbers and wonder why people don't take you seriously. No one is making 600 mil per char in C6s....and L5's are very dangerous in lowsec (pirates love people who run them!), and even fw runners are getting ganked. There is a reason Goon alts are blitzing L4s for 100 mil/hour - the other things you mention are not safe, are a limited resource, and usually require participation in some kind of alliance. Ask yourself - if these activities were so lucrative, why would we see so many threads here whining about L4 & incursion rewards in highsec???? I mean seriously, get a clue. That's the problem with you - you talk a lot, but even a bit of thinking before posting you don't do! There it is, that 'backfire post' you used to do with another character when a shot on the forum would hit home lol. You know, where you try to turn around your cluelessness as if it were someone else doing it. We see you Divine Entervention. How can i 'make up' numbers other people have documented? Did I make up this youtube video? Or this post? Or the reddit I linked? Or maybe I made up this link in the wormhole section of these forums that is STICKIED by the forum admins for all to see? Meanwhile, not a single shred of evidence from you lol...... Not.a.shred. I know being outed as someone who is lying on a video game forum must hurt, but it's not my fault Mr. "200 mil is unmatched in the game" LOL. As usual, you mistake the ability to earn such isk over a short span, and with risk, for the ability to do it with regularity and over a long period of time. And as usual, you simply fail to address the elephant in the room here. If your numbers were right (absurd, of course), why would the forums be inundated with threads about highsec being so lucrative that everyone is moving there, and that highsec rewards make low/null/wh space nonviable to live in...and that the players are better off running highsec L4s at 100 mil an hour????? How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads???? Are all these people lying? Are they simply uninformed about how much isk they could be making? Or is there perhaps a lot more going on than you are grasping!
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 254	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:00:02 - [116] - Quote Darth Schweinebacke wrote: Sure I care about risk / reward: Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none Why should line null players get buffed rewards because OTHER PEOPLE put effort into negotiation mega-alliances? How is that good for the game? Our PvE rewards should now revolve around the ability to create LESS conflict? I mean seriously, if we want to reward nullsec for creating farmville, why not just abolish it and make everything highsec?
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4138	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:01:02 - [117] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads???? i hear so much about those threads. where are they? what are your thoughts on the deudly shield proteus. it can make up to 800mil an hour in goonsec running sigs
Darth Schweinebacke Caldari Provisions Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:03:35 - [118] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Darth Schweinebacke wrote: Sure I care about risk / reward: Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none Why should line null players get buffed rewards because OTHER PEOPLE put effort into negotiation mega-alliances? How is that good for the game? Our PvE rewards should now revolve around the ability to create LESS conflict? I mean seriously, if we want to reward nullsec for creating farmville, why not just abolish it and make everything highsec? Now you are just trolling, nobody can be that daft.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 254	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:05:34 - [119] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads???? i hear so much about those threads. where are they? what are your thoughts on the deudly shield proteus. it can make up to 800mil an hour in goonsec running sigs Here is one https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=384621&find=unread They tend to get instalocked these days because the forums were getting flooded with them. Notice that that one is by one of the leaders of Goons, and many other top level Goons have expressed the same sentiment - that their line pilots have no reason to live in null because they can get BETTER rewards in highsec....which disproves everything Jenn is saying.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 255	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:06:45 - [120] - Quote Darth Schweinebacke wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Darth Schweinebacke wrote: Sure I care about risk / reward: Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none Why should line null players get buffed rewards because OTHER PEOPLE put effort into negotiation mega-alliances? How is that good for the game? Our PvE rewards should now revolve around the ability to create LESS conflict? I mean seriously, if we want to reward nullsec for creating farmville, why not just abolish it and make everything highsec? Now you are just trolling, nobody can be that daft. Yes...the idea that you should not receive buffed rewards because your alliance leaders created a massive blue donut and turned nullsec into farmville is obviously trolling.

Darth Schweinebacke Caldari Provisions Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:10:17 - [121] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Darth Schweinebacke wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Darth Schweinebacke wrote: Sure I care about risk / reward: Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none Why should line null players get buffed rewards because OTHER PEOPLE put effort into negotiation mega-alliances? How is that good for the game? Our PvE rewards should now revolve around the ability to create LESS conflict? I mean seriously, if we want to reward nullsec for creating farmville, why not just abolish it and make everything highsec? Now you are just trolling, nobody can be that daft. Yes...the idea that you should not receive buffed rewards because your alliance leaders created a massive blue donut and turned nullsec into farmville is obviously trolling. Because 3 ppl == an alliance!
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4139	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:16:42 - [122] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads???? i hear so much about those threads. where are they? what are your thoughts on the deudly shield proteus. it can make up to 800mil an hour in goonsec running sigs Here is one https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=384621&find=unread They tend to get instalocked these days because the forums were getting flooded with them. Notice that that one is by one of the leaders of Goons, and many other top level Goons have expressed the same sentiment - that their line pilots have no reason to live in null because they can get BETTER rewards in highsec....which disproves everything Jenn is saying. yep that sure is one crap thread. top level goon confirmed how will gd cope with the endless nerf highsec thread(s) by top level goon(s) la nariz
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8972	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:21:03 - [123] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: As usual, you mistake the ability to earn such isk over a short span, and with risk, for the ability to do it with regularity and over a long period of time. And still you provide no evidence of what you believe. Low sec lvl 5s are INFINITE. you canot bubble a low sec station so you can't prevent someone from undocking, warping to an insta, then to the mission. The average blitzed lvl 5 takes less than a minute. I know they are sustainable because I do them every single night and cash out billions every week. Same for Faction warfare, low sec lvl 4 blitzing and most of the rest. See what you did here, you tried to challenge my evidence without any of you own. You are dishonest to your core. Quote: And as usual, you simply fail to address the elephant in the room here. If your numbers were right (absurd, of course), why would the forums be inundated with threads about highsec being so lucrative that everyone is moving there, and that highsec rewards make low/null/wh space nonviable to live in...and that the players are better off running highsec L4s at 100 mil an hour????? How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads???? Are all these people lying? Are they simply uninformed about how much isk they could be making? Or is there perhaps a lot more going on than you are grasping! No one is lying except you. What you just did here is the "if it's so good, why isn't everyone doing it" fallacy that clueless people love to use. Everyone isn't doing the same thing because everyone isn't the same. Some people are to risk averse to risk a carrier doing a lvl 5 mission for 1.5 minutes. Some are too risk averse to accept the loss of a few stealth bombers to make 350 to 600 mil per hour. Some are 'stuck in their ways' and don't want to do anything more. Some or too incompetent to do anything but high sec pve. Still others don't have the time to invest in setting up pve in another place. The reason people point out the high sec/null sec income vs risk reward imbalance isn't because high sec is the most lucrative place in EVE, its the EASIEST. people can farm high sec pve content on one screen in near perfect safety while doing actual interesting stuff opn another screen. This is the reason for both "afktar" alts in null and mission alts in high. None of that speaks to the fact that "200 mil is unmatched in the game" is so incorrect it proves you are lying about what you do in game.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8972	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:26:50 - [124] - Quote Darth Schweinebacke wrote: nobody can be that daft. You'd think lol.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8973	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:30:17 - [125] - Quote afkalt wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: afkalt wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers. It is no wonder people ridicule you, it's obvious you have no idea what you're on about. People lose caps to sleepers. Incursions indeed....pfffffffft. Put on the big boy pants and go try it. You now witness the Divine Entervention maneuver. This is where a guy takes something that he does that is easy and safe (high sec incursions) and equates that with something he has no clue aboue and is more dangerous (high end wormhole capital escalations, which everyone but him knows is the most dangerous kick ass pve content in EVE Online). Then he suggests you are the one who is crazy when everyone with eyes can see it's him lol.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 255	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:33:56 - [126] - Quote Lots of words, but the core confusion remains. L5s in lowsec with caps are not "safe" by any stretch of the imagination. There are pirate fleets that live to hunt down and wipe out lowsec mission runners. A single slip up and your whole fleet is gone. Look what OP wrote...look at the agreement expressed by subsequent posters....no one thinks lowsec is "safe," and for that reason it is the most desolate region in the game. If anything, CCP is looking to buff lowsec rewards to give people a reason to live there. There are lots of ways to knock out lowsec mission runners....camp station on dockup, scan down and crash missions, blockade their logistics chain, etc.... The nerf highsec folks aren't complaining that it is hard to do non-highsec pve - they are complaining that no other reasonably safe mechanism of regular PvE with the same rewards as L4 exists (now the real cause of this is their coalition leaders renting out so much of their space - but I digress). Go through the forums - read the locked nerf highsec threads - they have already explained why the other options can't replace the lack of missions in sov null. The fact is that it's not so easy to make a lot of isk in this game....and the high reward options tend to also have a high degree of risk (as it should be!) But they key here, and to stay on topic, is that I agree with OP (and apparently the vast majority of the playerbase does as well!) - lowsec is far too dangerous for the reward level, and between gatecamps and pirates it just doesn't add up.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 255	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:37:23 - [127] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: You now witness the Divine Entervention maneuver. This is where a guy takes something that he does that is easy and safe (high sec incursions) and equates that with something he has no clue aboue and is more dangerous (high end wormhole capital escalations, which everyone but him knows is the most dangerous kick ass pve content in EVE Online). Then he suggests you are the one who is crazy when everyone with eyes can see it's him lol. Oh yes, sites that can be done with virtually unkillable triage carriers are SO DANGEROUS...gimme a break, the expert wh groups barely ever lose caps on these sites....it's like a lot of PvE in Eve - as long as you follow the recipe, you are virtually unkillable. Guides like this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=144954 exist all over the place. No one is dying if your triage carrier is even minimally competent.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2022	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:08:29 - [128] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: lowsec is far too dangerous for the reward level, and between gatecamps and pirates it just doesn't add up. ... unless, of course, you're looking precisely for danger, pirates and gatecamps to shoot at. In that case, the reward of lowsec is, so to speak, the risk itself. PVE in lowsec works perfectly if you do it to find PVP, not to run away from it. People even mine in lowsec, but in something tanky with friends (or alts) nearby. And they're more than happy to be attacked and have the opportunity for some pew, even if they eventually lose a ship or two. Though kills are obviously preferred over losses, lowsec residents tend to see ships simply as tools for fun. True, many lowsec guys and gals find it easier to fund their pew elsewhere, but where's the problem? Highsec for ISK, lowsec for fun. Lowsec may be 'desolate' at times, but that just means that only a small percentage of the EVE population enjoys constant danger, frantic action and high losses in exchange for epic fights. To each their own, wild lowsec is fine as it is, just keep out if you're not interested in internet spaceship explosions. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Ilaister Task Force Proteus Protean Concept 119	Posted - 2014.11.10 21:29:59 - [129] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Oh yes, sites that can be done with virtually unkillable triage carriers are SO DANGEROUS...gimme a break, the expert wh groups barely ever lose caps on these sites....it's like a lot of PvE in Eve - as long as you follow the recipe, you are virtually unkillable. Guides like this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=144954 exist all over the place. No one is dying if your triage carrier is even minimally competent. Popping in to what was a pretty enjoyable thread to let you know bud that you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to WH PVE. Sorry. Regardless of the fact you think it's all escalations in 'unkillable' carriers. Thanks for the guide though! I will be sure to pull it up for advice the next time a new hole pops up 30s into my siege timer and T3s and Bhaalgorns start pouring through it.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 205	Posted - 2014.11.10 21:39:45 - [130] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: But they key here, and to stay on topic, is that I agree with OP (and apparently the vast majority of the playerbase does as well!) - lowsec is far too dangerous for the reward level, and between gatecamps and pirates it just doesn't add up. So are you saying that low sec needs a risk nerf or a rewards buff? Wait I'll just cross my legs and start humming a mantra and the voices of the majority will reach across the ether of the universe and tell me they agree with you.

Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 207	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:02:17 - [131] - Quote Ilaister wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Oh yes, sites that can be done with virtually unkillable triage carriers are SO DANGEROUS...gimme a break, the expert wh groups barely ever lose caps on these sites....it's like a lot of PvE in Eve - as long as you follow the recipe, you are virtually unkillable. Guides like this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=144954 exist all over the place. No one is dying if your triage carrier is even minimally competent. Popping in to what was a pretty enjoyable thread to let you know bud that you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to WH PVE. Sorry. Regardless of the fact you think it's all escalations in 'unkillable' carriers. Thanks for the guide though! I will be sure to pull it up for advice the next time a new hole pops up 30s into my siege timer and T3s and Bhaalgorns start pouring through it. Apparently Eve-O is home to all the best guides. Further more, once you have read said omnipotent Eve-O guides you absorb 100% of said information and gain more knowledge than those who have spent years playing that facet of the game. According to some Eve-O posters, this means you know the risks of running a 0.0 alliance of 6000 people, you understand how to play wormholes in godlike mode, you understand the nuances of running level 5's, of invention and manufacturing, of large scale distribution through hostile territory, you are able to glean more understanding and foresight from fellow Eve-O posters than those who run their own killboards, more so than those who run their own Eve mapping software or websites. llaister; just let Morpheus plug you into the learning room. It is the best way to learn karate.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 259	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:32:19 - [132] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: But they key here, and to stay on topic, is that I agree with OP (and apparently the vast majority of the playerbase does as well!) - lowsec is far too dangerous for the reward level, and between gatecamps and pirates it just doesn't add up. So are you saying that low sec needs a risk nerf or a rewards buff? Wait I'll just cross my legs and start humming a mantra and the voices of the majority will reach across the ether of the universe and tell me they agree with you. Had you read earlier I specifically suggested buffing sentry guns to deter gatecamping. This would allow for easier movement in lowsec, and allow more people to actually live there rather than just pop in for some pvp piracy. As much fun as low sec pvp is, the fact remains that there aren't many people in it, and it would be a lot more fun if the population concentration was higher. This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10569	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:38:11 - [133] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun. Making it harder to fight does not equate to more fighting. That's pretty basic logic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Karl Jerr Herzack Unit 51	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:40:14 - [134] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Had you read earlier I specifically suggested buffing sentry guns to deter gatecamping. This would allow for easier movement in lowsec, and allow more people to actually live there rather than just pop in for some pvp piracy. As much fun as low sec pvp is, the fact remains that there aren't many people in it, and it would be a lot more fun if the population concentration was higher. This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun. Easier movement in lowsec It's already OP enough with a cloaky.. Like I said previously in another post; please don't put idea like this to our lowsec Hisec is secure enough already and B O R I N G. You know that piracy, even if you are a target, is PART of the fun. If you have played in cat & mouse game in your young years, you should see that's the same thing. Remove the ebil pirate and you kill a good part of lowsec... So much drama for a frigging game
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 259	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:40:58 - [135] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun. Making it harder to fight does not equate to more fighting. That's pretty basic logic. Letting people actually move around and stage out of the area would lead to more people living there and therefore more fighting. The current mechanics encourage massive gatecamps, and preclude settlement. See Amamake.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 259	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:43:13 - [136] - Quote Karl Jerr wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Had you read earlier I specifically suggested buffing sentry guns to deter gatecamping. This would allow for easier movement in lowsec, and allow more people to actually live there rather than just pop in for some pvp piracy. As much fun as low sec pvp is, the fact remains that there aren't many people in it, and it would be a lot more fun if the population concentration was higher. This would lead to more fighting, more engagement, and a lot more fun. Easier movement in lowsec It's already OP enough with a cloaky.. Like I said previously in another post; please don't put idea like this to our lowsec Hisec is secure enough already and B O R I N G. You know that piracy, even if you are a target, is PART of the fun. If you have played in cat & mouse game in your young years, you should see that's the same thing. Remove the ebil pirate and you kill a good part of lowsec... So much drama for a frigging game Wouldn't you like to see more activity? Wouldn't you like to have more people living in the space, doing PvE, and presenting targets? Right now it's pretty desolate - you get some fw activity, and some gatecamps, but not much in the way of PvE or real activity? You wouldn't like to see a much more energetic and occupied space?
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10569	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:43:19 - [137] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Letting people actually move around and stage out of the area would lead to more people living there and therefore more fighting. No it wouldn't. Gates are one of the few places to actually catch people. Taking away from opportunity to fight will not lead to more fighting. Quote: The current mechanics encourage massive gatecamps, and preclude settlement. See Amamake. Except, you know, that if there are gatecamps interdicting movement, that clearly someone lives there and is defending their area. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 3258	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:46:11 - [138] - Quote Getting around in lowsec is tough. It took me a long time to learn the ropes. Sometimes there are no-win situations... but over time you learn a trick here or a trick there and your success rate increases. I suck at PvP, but I'm incredibly slippery and hard-to-catch in lowsec. I'll give you a few tips to get you started. If you fit a prototype cloak, a neat trick is to hit your AB or MWD, align to the next gate, and cloak right away. Than after a second or two you decloak and warp. That first cycle of your mwd or ab gets applied and you pretty much insta-warp. Haulers do this to great effect in my empire gate camps, but it applies well to lowsec too. If you are just bopping around lowsec, and as much as other players might flame me for it, stab up! A scrambler is -2 to warp and a disruptor -1. I generally assume -3 to warp when I fit ninja looting ships. This won't save you from a big camp, but roaming pirates and even medium size camps are a lot more possible if you have +3 to warp. Remember, in that instant they are trying to tackle you don't have to get away from the entire fleet, just the tacklers. If you warp too fast for the big ships to lock and they tacklers don't have enough points, they usually won't even chase you. (I've noticed a lot more tacklers use disruptors than scramblers, and if they use the latter they can't close the distance between their scramblers range and wherever you materialize around the gate before you warp) Use a scout shuttle. Yah... I know... wtf is a scout? Welp, a scout is something people used to use in eve a long time ago to see if there was trouble ahead. Shuttles are ideal because they are almost impossible to lock in lowsec. Stop screwing with the big boys. There is SOOOO much lowsec space that is hardly ever used. Bust out your star map and look for less populated areas. If you are encountering a camp in a certain constellation... STOP GOING THERE! (...or you could try to join them.) There are plenty of lowsec systems where you can mess around, rat, run anomalies and missions, and rarely be messed with (keep your eyes on local though). People in lowsec are not "nice". They will kill you. Just stay away from players. There's plenty of empty systems.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2026	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:47:58 - [139] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: [Wouldn't you like to see more activity? Wouldn't you like to have more people living in the space, doing PvE, and presenting targets? Right now it's pretty desolate - you get some fw activity, and some gatecamps, but not much in the way of PvE or real activity? You wouldn't like to see a much more energetic and occupied space? Carebears PVEing =/= energetic space. And no, I actually don't really care about 'targets', I prefer dudes that shoot back. And they're already in lowsec because they laugh at the notion that 'massive gatecamps' are preventing them to roam. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Karl Jerr Herzack Unit 53	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:49:10 - [140] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Wouldn't you like to see more activity? Wouldn't you like to have more people living in the space, doing PvE, and presenting targets? Right now it's pretty desolate - you get some fw activity, and some gatecamps, but not much in the way of PvE or real activity? You wouldn't like to see a much more energetic and occupied space? Trust me there are activities other than gatecamp and FW. If someone want to PVe in low he/she can, I do it myself so anyone can do it too. The big part is staying aware of your surrounding in the same time than doing your activities, and by that it is more interesting than doing the same in highsec. Yes sometime it can be empty but it's a false feeling because you can be litteraly head to head with a fleet after a jump, when the same system was so empty some seconds ago. And it's all part of the fun And to answer to your last question: no, because it would become like highsec, because let be honest; first phase you want to buff the gate's gun, next phase you could want to have Concord in lowsec, which isn't logical because it is Lowsec not null, not high

Lupe Meza Hedion University Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:03:19 - [141] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Lots of words, but the core confusion remains. L5s in lowsec with caps are not "safe" by any stretch of the imagination. There are pirate fleets that live to hunt down and wipe out lowsec mission runners. A single slip up and your whole fleet is gone. Look what OP wrote...look at the agreement expressed by subsequent posters....no one thinks lowsec is "safe," and for that reason it is the most desolate region in the game. If anything, CCP is looking to buff lowsec rewards to give people a reason to live there. There are lots of ways to knock out lowsec mission runners....camp station on dockup, scan down and crash missions, blockade their logistics chain, etc.... The nerf highsec folks aren't complaining that it is hard to do non-highsec pve - they are complaining that no other reasonably safe mechanism of regular PvE with the same rewards as L4 exists (now the real cause of this is their coalition leaders renting out so much of their space - but I digress). Go through the forums - read the locked nerf highsec threads - they have already explained why the other options can't replace the lack of missions in sov null. The fact is that it's not so easy to make a lot of isk in this game....and the high reward options tend to also have a high degree of risk (as it should be!) But they key here, and to stay on topic, is that I agree with OP (and apparently the vast majority of the playerbase does as well!) - lowsec is far too dangerous for the reward level, and between gatecamps and pirates it just doesn't add up. My .02 cents: I'll go into lowsec to do PvE but is more akin to a trip to the casino. I fly a ship that I can afford to lose and hope that by the time I lose it, I made a profit. I don't have the time (or desire) to play EVE all day everyday. When my time is especially limited, and I can only play for an hour or so, I do high sec missions. The return on my my time invested is guaranteed. I don't have to fleetup only to travel somewhere to bail shortly after I get there. I fly a T1, T2 fit BS, I don't have a pimped out marauder raking in a kajillion and hour raking in the cash. I don't enjoy missioning immensely but I don't hate it either; it is just something I have to do to keep my wallet from hitting 0 when I engage in the activities I do enjoy. A game can't be setup in a way that denies a player some bare minimum of reward for the time the spent playing it. The line to walk is debatable but no more should a player expect instant gratification in a game than they should to not being able to accomplish anything. When I want to roll the dice I'll PvE in low, null, or wh space. Missioning is often dull work, but with my particular schedule it keeps me in T1 ships so that I can actually explore other aspects of the game I frankly enjoy more, but offer little in the way of reward outside of enjoying doing them. If i did not have a reliable revenue stream i would be unable to enjoy the game When I NEED isk I do missions in High Sec. I don't have infinite time, so spending an hour to get a guaranteed 50ish mil is sometimes preferable to spending an hour of my time coming away with nothing. Nerf the rewards and I would then have to spend more time doing an activity that I'm only doing in the first place to fund other activities. Now do I know when I take a PvE dive into less secure space that I'll walk away "Richie Rich" or be left naked and floating in space? No. I wish I had a Magic 8-ball just for EVE that would tell me before I log on whether or not likely a session I devoted to making some e-cash would in fact, result in no e-cash. I would then know to spend that hour doing just about anything OTHER than playing EVE. I can still be ganked, griefed, ninja looted, wardecced, and have assorted horrible misdeeds done to me in High. It just can't be done with no way out and no repercussions for the offender. What I won't be doing in high however, is wasting 90% of a limited hour or so play session avoiding PvP in a PvE fit ship and maybe 10% of it actually doing PvE, especially when my goal for that session was to make some ISK. If that 10% of actual PVE yielded the guaranteed return of a High Sec mission or two, sure I'd do it. But by the time all the prisoners are done chasing me around the shower room it usually doesn't considering how much risk you put yourself in and time you spend mitigating it. All this ignores the fact that some players just prefer PVE and High Sec is more conducive for that type of play. Nerfing it isn't going to turn them into PvPer's or line soldiers for your Null Bloc, it's just going to make them find another game. If anything CCP should present more attractive PvE options in less secure space to attract players there, like they did with the sites that got added to WH's, it'd be healthier for the game. Use positive reinforcement and incentives to nurture the player behavior you want. Everybody gets something then. Don't disenfranchise players, especially when the changes are suggested by those who are the only ones that benefit from them.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2028	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:09:32 - [142] - Quote Lupe Meza wrote: by the time all the prisoners are done chasing me around the shower room Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 210	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:47:45 - [143] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Wouldn't you like to see more activity? Wouldn't you like to have more people living in the space, doing PvE, and presenting targets? Right now it's pretty desolate - you get some fw activity, and some gatecamps, but not much in the way of PvE or real activity? You wouldn't like to see a much more energetic and occupied space? I believe that one reason there is not more low security activity is that the buffs to high sec safety have made the transition between high and low to jarring for those who do not understand that losing ships in a spaceship shooting game is normal. The alteration to high sec game mechanics to make it safer have also limited the exposure to said mechanics that high sec dwellers have.
Beers Veldspar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:59:31 - [144] - Quote The Belvarian forces will rule Lowsec soon... Veers will clean this mess, the golden age of New Eden is only a matter of time ! One Dream One Law One Lord One Veers One SafeSec ! Veers Belvar, heroic figure in Highsec dedicated to preserving "Truth, justice, and the American way."
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 259	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:04:37 - [145] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Wouldn't you like to see more activity? Wouldn't you like to have more people living in the space, doing PvE, and presenting targets? Right now it's pretty desolate - you get some fw activity, and some gatecamps, but not much in the way of PvE or real activity? You wouldn't like to see a much more energetic and occupied space? I believe that one reason there is not more low security activity is that the buffs to high sec safety have made the transition between high and low to jarring for those who do not understand that losing ships in a spaceship shooting game is normal. The alteration to high sec game mechanics to make it safer have also limited the exposure to said mechanics that high sec dwellers have. I think the problem with this logic is that it blames the individual new players as opposed to the experienced players. Can new players go to lowsec and set up shop? Of course not...it's a suicide mission. But then again the same applies to null and wormholes. Yet new players move there all the time. Why? Because corps are set up and recruit them. This is not true in lowsec...people don't set up lowsec PvE corp's and recruit with them publicly. That tells me that the feeling is that lowsec PvE isn't really viable, and that the risk/reward doesn't justify creation and recruitment into lowsec corps. So it's not highsec risk aversion, it's experienced players deciding that a lowsec PvE corp just ain't worth it.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 210	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:23:01 - [146] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: I think the problem with this logic is that it blames the individual new players as opposed to the experienced players. Can new players go to lowsec and set up shop? Of course not...it's a suicide mission. But then again the same applies to null and wormholes. Yet new players move there all the time. Why? Because corps are set up and recruit them. This is not true in lowsec...people don't set up lowsec PvE corps and recruit with them publicly. That tells me that the feeling is that lowsec PvE isn't really viable, and that the risk/reward doesn't justify creation and recruitment into lowsec corps. So it's not highsec risk aversion, it's experienced players deciding that a lowsec PvE corp just ain't worth it. Faction Warfare.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 259	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:28:47 - [147] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: I think the problem with this logic is that it blames the individual new players as opposed to the experienced players. Can new players go to lowsec and set up shop? Of course not...it's a suicide mission. But then again the same applies to null and wormholes. Yet new players move there all the time. Why? Because corps are set up and recruit them. This is not true in lowsec...people don't set up lowsec PvE corps and recruit with them publicly. That tells me that the feeling is that lowsec PvE isn't really viable, and that the risk/reward doesn't justify creation and recruitment into lowsec corps. So it's not highsec risk aversion, it's experienced players deciding that a lowsec PvE corp just ain't worth it. Faction Warfare. Yep - that is the one part of lowsec that has activity and recruitment...and notice that risk aversion doesn't deter highsec players from joining. The question remains why there is no similar structure for doing PvE in lowsec given the substantial awards available.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 210	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:33:17 - [148] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: I think the problem with this logic is that it blames the individual new players as opposed to the experienced players. Can new players go to lowsec and set up shop? Of course not...it's a suicide mission. But then again the same applies to null and wormholes. Yet new players move there all the time. Why? Because corps are set up and recruit them. This is not true in lowsec...people don't set up lowsec PvE corps and recruit with them publicly. That tells me that the feeling is that lowsec PvE isn't really viable, and that the risk/reward doesn't justify creation and recruitment into lowsec corps. So it's not highsec risk aversion, it's experienced players deciding that a lowsec PvE corp just ain't worth it. Faction Warfare. Yep - that is the one part of lowsec that has activity and recruitment...and notice that risk aversion doesn't deter highsec players from joining. The question remains why there is no similar structure for doing PvE in lowsec given the substantial awards available. Faction warfare is both PVP and PVE
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10573	Posted - 2014.11.11 11:30:34 - [149] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: [quote=Cancel Align NOW][quote=Veers Belvar] Faction Warfare. Yep - that is the one part of lowsec that has activity and recruitment...and notice that risk aversion doesn't deter highsec players from joining. /quote] Lol wow. At least warn me beforehand, I need to take a deep breath before I laugh that much. Yeah, Tears, there are totally no risk averse farmers in faction warfare, right? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaely Tanniss Aurora Novae Aetatis 59	Posted - 2014.11.11 11:33:03 - [150] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaely Tanniss wrote: Wait...what? So now you're an economic expert too Veers? You ARE one of the incursion runners...so of course you'd defend those actions. I have nothing against lucrative aspects of Eve..I do however have issues with the ability to do so without any risk. I know all too well how incursion fleets work..there is little risk unless you take someone who doesn't know what they're doing. Like Kaarous said, it is being used as an isk press and it is hurting the market..which honestly, I don't care about..but others do. The solution would be to make incursions occur only in low or null sec...then the risk would be equal to the rewards imo...you wouldn't dare fly that shiny nightmare into a lowsec/nullsec pocket..now that's risk vs reward.. Huh? Another deeply confused comment. And yes, I am an economic expert. Thanks for completely failing to refute the actual argument. As to the rest....Incursions are far, far risker than L4s, than AFK carrier ratting in Deklein, than AFK mining in sov null, than escalations in well controlled wormhole space, etc... Basically, the player powerblocs have made their space vastly safer than empire can ever be. The market is not "hurting" as prices are dropping, not rising. I'm not sure how you determine "hurt," but I would suggest doing at least a bit of market research before spouting absurdities. I mean, prices are falling, but incursions (far less isk generated than bounties) are somehow "hurting" the market. There are incursions in low sec. Guess what happens....2 groups monopolize them and have a non-agression pact. This is good for the game how exactly? But your brilliant solution is to move even more content out of highsec and into player controlled space, where no one but members of the big power blocs can participate. And you wonder why CCP is worried about people in highsec getting bored and quitting the game. I mean if you care about risk/reward you should be advocating turning Deklein into a desolate wasteland where only L1s are available, and mining is impossible. But gee, somehow I don't see you doing that. It wouldn't really fit in with your nerf highsec agenda or crazy economic arguments. LOL...I don't think you realize what I'm talking about or what I'm about..I am ALL FOR keeping content in hi-sec. So let me get this straight...you're a lawyer, an economics expert, an Eve master, Hi-sec incursion whiz, Anti-ganking guru, forum warrior, AND you can read my mind and know what I'm all about. You're absolutely amazing Veers. I applaud you. You claim to "know" so many things yet hide from others in your little world. You dodge war decs, you give bad advice, and you hold yourself "above" others who know as much, if not more, than you do and are unwilling to listen to anyone who offers a viable point if it contradicts what you believe. I have no need to explain markets to you, nor do I feel the need to explain anything else to you. If you actually did something besides PvE you'd realize that prices are not going down everywhere. You are nothing but a forum and blog troll. If you spent half the time actually playing Eve as you do posting on forums and blogs...maybe you'd actually be having fun playing the game. Stop being so bitter and bored and do some of the things you are "so good" at. So what's the problem with 2 groups "monopolizing" an incursion? Afraid to fight anything other than an npc with that shiny ship? Have you actually EVER lived in low or null...I mean LIVE..not been there. Have you ever lived in a c6? Have you ever done FW..or PvP other than whoring on concord kms? You claim to know so much, but reading things on forums does not mean you know how it is. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against you personally...but I do have an issue with your constant "know it all" banter..and I can guarantee I'm not the only one. I listen to you in your channels every day...I know who you are far better than you know me. I listen to your hate speech and your incorrect advice. Instead of being a keyboard warrior, try getting out there and doing the things you preach about..or try new things. Try to actually BE what you claim to everyone every day. With that being said, I digress..as I have already gone far off topic. Enjoy your grandeur, you won't get far running off of ego alone... If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

The Tomonator Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates. 18	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:50:25 - [151] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Mharius Skjem wrote: You obviously lack experience, you need to check the map and learn how to move around in low sec. lowsec is as safe as highsec if you know what you are doing. No amount of map checking is going to tell me the ships sitting on the next gate, they could be anywhere. But put murphies law to it and they will only be there if I jump, so the best decision is to not jump. I figure if you put murphies law into the game you should be pretty safe. I decided against the obvious and lost stuff. Course having alts takes care of most of those problems, while friends do not. I mean whos wanting to jump into a meat grinder so their friend can jump through and go get his content. er ... the corpies who share their rewards, and don't remain insular and independent. There's a reason why some pople are successful in corps.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 259	Posted - 2014.11.11 15:30:28 - [152] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: I think the problem with this logic is that it blames the individual new players as opposed to the experienced players. Can new players go to lowsec and set up shop? Of course not...it's a suicide mission. But then again the same applies to null and wormholes. Yet new players move there all the time. Why? Because corps are set up and recruit them. This is not true in lowsec...people don't set up lowsec PvE corps and recruit with them publicly. That tells me that the feeling is that lowsec PvE isn't really viable, and that the risk/reward doesn't justify creation and recruitment into lowsec corps. So it's not highsec risk aversion, it's experienced players deciding that a lowsec PvE corp just ain't worth it. Faction Warfare. Yep - that is the one part of lowsec that has activity and recruitment...and notice that risk aversion doesn't deter highsec players from joining. The question remains why there is no similar structure for doing PvE in lowsec given the substantial awards available. Faction warfare is both PVP and PVE The corps that recruit do it for the PvP. Note that you don't see L5 lowsec corps or lowsec mining corps or lowsec exploration corps recruiting....those folks all base out of high, wormholes, or sov null. But there seems to be almost no organized pure PvE activity in lowsec. That should tell you that those in the know don't see it is profitable in the current meta.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2032	Posted - 2014.11.11 15:35:19 - [153] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: [That should tell you that those in the know don't see it is profitable in the current meta. It's more like those in the pew see it's fun to keep it unprofitable. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Jvpiter Jovelike 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 15:51:00 - [154] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: The corps that recruit do it for the PvP. Note that you don't see L5 lowsec corps or lowsec mining corps or lowsec exploration corps recruiting....those folks all base out of high, wormholes, or sov null. But there seems to be almost no organized pure PvE activity in lowsec. That should tell you that those in the know don't see it is profitable in the current meta. I apologize for my ignorance. Are there hisec L4 corps or successful hisec mining corps? I'd "venture" to say that there is no organized PVE activity anywhere in hisec or lowsec. Null and WH are a separate matter.
Lfod Shi Lfod's Ratting and Salvage 220	Posted - 2014.11.11 16:14:37 - [155] - Quote Geeze, after reading the OP, I wonder how I ever manage to zip in and out of low on such a regular basis! I must be doing it wrong. GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6665	Posted - 2014.11.11 16:21:10 - [156] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation thank you veers, thank you soo much. this is actually the funniest thing you have typed yet. i may have peed a little. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Gallowmere Rorschach Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 805	Posted - 2014.11.11 16:27:32 - [157] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation thank you veers, thank you soo much. this is actually the funniest thing you have typed yet. i may have peed a little. I can't believe that I actually just read what you quoted. Is this what the internet does to people?
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4139	Posted - 2014.11.11 16:30:30 - [158] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation thank you veers, thank you soo much. this is actually the funniest thing you have typed yet. i may have peed a little. I can't believe that I actually just read what you quoted. Is this what the internet does to people? incontinence has many causes. i haven't heard of internet usage being one of them e: argh, the 'what you quoted' phrase kills the joke
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 260	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:32:37 - [159] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation thank you veers, thank you soo much. this is actually the funniest thing you have typed yet. i may have peed a little. Ha! No time to explain this, but money supply does not determine inflation. You need to look at supply/demand curves, and here if stuff is increasing more than isk, that means more demand for isk, and deflation, even with increasing money supply. Exactly what is happening in Eve. Stop laughing and start thinking a bit.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6667	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:34:20 - [160] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Inflation isn't about how much isk is in circulation thank you veers, thank you soo much. this is actually the funniest thing you have typed yet. i may have peed a little. Ha! No time to explain this, but money supply does not determine inflation. You need to look at supply/demand curves, and here if stuff is increasing more than isk, that means more demand for isk, and deflation, even with increasing money supply. Exactly what is happening in Eve. Stop laughing and start thinking a bit. i would if you'd stop saying pants on head ****** ** like that veers "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=

Jvpiter Jovelike 6	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:49:52 - [161] - Quote Veers, If people have easy access to ISK it's likely that the value of currency as a resource will decrease. This means that people are more willing to spend, and when they do spend they will fork out more ISK for things such as PLEX, the gold standard of EVE commodities. This is not to say that supply and demand don't play a part. I'm not sure it makes sense to deny the impact of an excess of ISK on inflation, defined as the devaluation of said currency.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 260	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:07:44 - [162] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: Veers, If people have easy access to ISK it's likely that the value of currency as a resource will decrease. This means that people are more willing to spend, and when they do spend they will fork out more ISK for things such as PLEX, the gold standard of EVE commodities. This is not to say that supply and demand don't play a part. I'm not sure it makes sense to deny the impact of an excess of ISK on inflation, defined as the devaluation of said currency. Sure, if the folks here were correct and Eve was being flooded with ISK (of course it would mainly be from bounties, NOT incursions), we would definitely expect Plex to inflate. BUT SO WOULD EVERY OTHER COMMODITY. So you will need to come up with a theory of why Plex is inflating, but everything else is deflating, which is entirely consistent with excessive mining, but totally inconsistent with Isk flooding. I mean you could perform a careful economic analysis and justify that result...which would be hard to do....or you could just point and yell INCURSIONS INCURSIONS. It's your choice.
Leoric Firesword Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Redux 91	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:14:46 - [163] - Quote you did it wrong. First, check the map for the lowsec systems you'll be going through, more than a few pilots? risk isn't worth it. Second MWD+Cloak, or even better cov ops cloak. If you can't do either, well you're a wreck waiting to happen. Those two things alone make you damned hard to kill in lowsec. Third, never just directly jump through the highsec->lowsec gate, warp to 0 make sure there's not someone sitting there, then jump. If someone is sitting there they are a scout for the gate camp on the other side. Fourth, NEVER and I mean NEVER expect the computer to do something for you. If you want it done right do it yourself (jump selection) Fifth, when jumping into low use your gate cloak (30 seconds I think it is) to evaluate the situation. All clear? keep going. Gate camp? either keep going (if you think you can get away) or try to burn back to the gate. I feel safer going to lowsec these days than going to a market hub. All kinds of crazy people there trying to gank you.
Jvpiter Jovelike 6	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:18:28 - [164] - Quote I think the objection to incursions is the ungodly amount of ISK available at little to no risk from PVP. However, I can't imagine incursions won't be farmed no matter what security space they are moved to. Without CONCORD we would simply see oligarchical control of incursion sites inside which people will be operating risk free.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6669	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:31:04 - [165] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: I think the objection to incursions is the ungodly amount of ISK available at little to no risk from PVP. However, I can't imagine incursions won't be farmed no matter what security space they are moved to. Without CONCORD we would simply see oligarchical control of incursion sites inside which people will be operating risk free. risk free ish "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
NIFTYGetAtMe State Protectorate Caldari State 22	Posted - 2014.11.11 20:02:56 - [166] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: You obviously lack experience, you need to check the map and learn how to move around in low sec. lowsec is as safe as highsec if you know what you are doing. These kinds of posts always amuse me. "Lowsec is as safe as highsec if you know what you're doing". Well, driving your car is as safe as sitting on your couch if you know what you are doing. Until you get blasted in the ass by the truck driver who fell asleep at the wheel.
Owen Levanth Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration 336	Posted - 2014.11.11 20:17:57 - [167] - Quote I'm always mystified by people staying away from something in Eve just because it's dangerous. Back when I started, something similar like it is described in the OP happened to me. The difference is, I found it exciting and fun. So I guess different people, different tastes, eh?
Bullock Brawn Brawny inc 32	Posted - 2014.11.12 03:17:16 - [168] - Quote The thing is, the ISK all works out the same for Null, Low, High.. High Sec = Low Stress Sec Low Sec = Gang Sec Null Sec = Lonely Sec All Sec's allow you to buy anything in game... it's just how you enjoy playing. Just use a Free ship and visit as many low sec systems you can without getting blown up... Rinse and Repeat, then you'll get better at getting around town.
Yasique Gautier Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.11.12 07:39:52 - [169] - Quote I dont go to low-sec because it costs. Lost ship, lost implants, then mine at belts a week all items back. I dont want to sacrifice my time, efforts and posessions to someone's fun while I left to mine asteroids. Pleople who saying "making low-sec more fun" are hypocrites, they want more not-so-experienced players to go in so they can kill them and have fun. You not going to make fun at my expense, nope nope nope. Fly your empty space alone.
Cpt Lift-Leg Ahab Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 1	Posted - 2014.11.12 07:53:14 - [170] - Quote [quote=I am a Brave Newbie ... I live in Null. And so can you. [/quote] me too i am new to null. i have had more fun there than i ever had in high sec so many people to fleet up with. you should send a app over to brave! 7o fly reckless

Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 218	Posted - 2014.11.12 08:03:19 - [171] - Quote Yasique Gautier wrote: I dont go to low-sec because it costs. Lost ship, lost implants, then mine at belts a week all items back. I dont want to sacrifice my time, efforts and posessions to someone's fun while I left to mine asteroids. Pleople who saying "making low-sec more fun" are hypocrites, they want more not-so-experienced players to go in so they can kill them and have fun. You not going to make fun at my expense, nope nope nope. Fly your empty space alone. Jump into a implant free clone. Buy a frigate. Fit it with web. warp disruptor. mwd. guns. damage mods. I can mine enough to afford to do that in 30 minutes in a Venture in a 2 week old alt.
The Tomonator Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates. 20	Posted - 2014.11.12 09:02:34 - [172] - Quote Leoric Firesword wrote: you did it wrong. Fifth, when jumping into low use your gate cloak (30 seconds I think it is) to evaluate the situation. All clear? keep going. Gate camp? either keep going (if you think you can get away) or try to burn back to the gate. you forgot the third option ... align to the nearest thing you're already vaguely aligned to, 'or' the thing that will align you 'away' from the gate (whichever is going to direct you away from the gate more) ... hit MWD/AB, and then cloak ... in as few milliseconds as possible ... once yopu're aligned, and still cloaed, keep going as long as you can ... as soon as they start getting to close to you, or put out drones, de-cloak, and hit warp. :)
Owen Levanth Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration 337	Posted - 2014.11.12 11:16:47 - [173] - Quote Yasique Gautier wrote: I dont go to low-sec because it costs. Lost ship, lost implants, then mine at belts a week all items back. I dont want to sacrifice my time, efforts and posessions to someone's fun while I left to mine asteroids. Pleople who saying "making low-sec more fun" are hypocrites, they want more not-so-experienced players to go in so they can kill them and have fun. You not going to make fun at my expense, nope nope nope. Fly your empty space alone. Too bad for you. Luckily as an explorer, I seldom lose one of my stealthy ships. Even with a wild PVP-adventure for some video project, a cov-ops lost thanks to me taking a rather obvious bait, a Stratios lost because I ignored my own scout-report and just jumped into a gigantic Russian gatecamp somewhere in Catch I think I've still lost more ships doing just PVE. Mining however is something I've tried and stopped pretty fast. It's boring as **. My industry-alt has mining skills, though: It's sometimes easier to just jump into a wormhole, mine out some high-end minerals and jump back than buying and transporting everything back to base. And holy ** can the Prospect take a punch, most of the time I can just mine until I'm full even with several Sleepers pummeling my shields like mad.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2014.11.12 11:23:55 - [174] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: You obviously lack experience, you need to check the map and learn how to move around in low sec. lowsec is as safe as highsec if you know what you are doing. That's pretty much a lie. A gatecamp is a sure loss. If you're the first person of today's kill, then you're not going to see ships destroyed in the map. Undocking from a station is an insta-loss when there's a sebo around. By the time the grid loads and you have control of your ship, you're already locked. [quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
Owen Levanth Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration 337	Posted - 2014.11.12 11:31:46 - [175] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Mharius Skjem wrote: You obviously lack experience, you need to check the map and learn how to move around in low sec. lowsec is as safe as highsec if you know what you are doing. That's pretty much a lie. A gatecamp is a sure loss. If you're the first person of today's kill, then you're not going to see ships destroyed in the map. Undocking from a station is an insta-loss when there's a sebo around. By the time the grid loads and you have control of your ship, you're already locked. This is so wrong it's funny. First off, I've survived many gatecamps and died in several other gatecamps, so it's obviously not a sure loss. Even if you're totally unlucky and really the first person finding them, you can still survive if your skills are better then their skills. Case closed. Undocking also isn't an insta-loss. Just make sure you have some bookmarks for insta-warp. And make sure your grid is loaded before you do anything: For a short time after leaving the station you're invincible. And if it looks like you won't get away, just don't panic, wait a few seconds and dock up before you've drifted to far away. (The waiting period is necessary because trying to redock makes you vulnerable again, but if you are too fast, the command fails. Then you're a sitting duck for a second before the server can process your next attempt at docking.)
Jvpiter Jovelike 25	Posted - 2014.11.12 13:41:20 - [176] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: That's pretty much a lie. A gatecamp is a sure loss. If you're the first person of today's kill, then you're not going to see ships destroyed in the map. Use an alt or a corpie as a scout. I'm not sure how it's possible to encounter a gate camp if you are using one. Quote: Undocking from a station is an insta-loss when there's a sebo around. By the time the grid loads and you have control of your ship, you're already locked. Undock. Hit ctrl+space. Survey your surroundings while you are invulnerable. You can dock back up and go do something else if you don't like what you see. And why would you ever operate without an instaundock?
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2014.11.12 13:56:06 - [177] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: That's pretty much a lie. A gatecamp is a sure loss. If you're the first person of today's kill, then you're not going to see ships destroyed in the map. Use an alt or a corpie as a scout. I'm not sure how it's possible to encounter a gate camp if you are using one. Quote: Undocking from a station is an insta-loss when there's a sebo around. By the time the grid loads and you have control of your ship, you're already locked. Undock. Hit ctrl+space. Survey your surroundings while you are invulnerable. You can dock back up and go do something else if you don't like what you see. And why would you ever operate without an instaundock? 1. An alt is another account. So you're saying pay more money to actually play the game, or maybe to carebear by avoiding risk by throwing real world money at the situation? 2. By the time you can access your instaundock after undocking, sebo T3 ships have already locked and shot you, by virtue of the fact that you'll show up on grid before you actually load on your client side. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10575	Posted - 2014.11.12 13:57:57 - [178] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: That's pretty much a lie. A gatecamp is a sure loss. If you're the first person of today's kill, then you're not going to see ships destroyed in the map. Nevermind the odds of that actually happening are hilariously unlikely, but the basic point is completely untrue to begin with. A gatecamp is not a "sure loss" in any way. Travel fit. Learn to love it. Quote: Undocking from a station is an insta-loss when there's a sebo around. By the time the grid loads and you have control of your ship, you're already locked. Another lie from you. They can't even target you at that point, and you should have an insta undock ready in such a situation anyway. If you genuinely are being killed on an undock before you load grid, then I suggest upgrading your router to the Potato 2.0. The original version is starting to show it's age. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4144	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:04:03 - [179] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: 2. By the time you can access your instaundock after undocking, sebo T3 ships have already locked and shot you, by virtue of the fact that you'll show up on grid before you actually load on your client side. absolute bollocks
Khan Wrenth Hedion University Amarr Empire 80	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:10:09 - [180] - Quote Dude, lowsec is freaking awesome. Just head down there and announce in local that you're hauling some deadspace modules to a friend but you've heard something about a "NBSI" doctrine and would someone kindly come along and demonstrate it? You'd be amazed at the number of people that will stop everything they're doing to come and help you out with that. HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch.

Jvpiter Jovelike 31	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:12:19 - [181] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: 1. An alt is another account. So you're saying pay more money to actually play the game, or maybe to carebear by avoiding risk by throwing real world money at the situation? Did you see I mentioned a corpie? Do you have friends in EVE? Do you think it's too much to ask for you to scout with an alt on the same account? Is it more tedious than dying with 90% certainty? It sounds like to me you are not familiar with all your options for avoiding certain death, and are frustrated by your experience. I sympathize, but you need to start exploring smarter ways to tackle simple setups like a gatecamp or station camp. Quote: 2. By the time you can access your instaundock after undocking, sebo T3 ships have already locked and shot you, by virtue of the fact that you'll show up on grid before you actually load on your client side. Owen Levanth's reply mentions exactly how to avoid this. Are you not aware of invulnerability timer on undock? Don't mash the warp button soon as you emerge. It's the worst thing you can do.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8984	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:26:22 - [182] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: It sounds like to me you are not familiar with all your options for avoiding certain death, and are frustrated by your experience. I sympathize, but you need to start exploring smarter ways to tackle simple setups like a gatecamp or station camp. 7 years in EVE taught me the exact same thing 40 years in 'meatspace' (real life) has taught me. Some people are unaware of ways to succeed and once you educate them, they use that and do just that (while felling a bit dumb at the fact that they didn't think of it themselves). These are called "smart people". Others (called things other than "smart people"), however, don't CARE that those ways exist and won't expend an ounce of effort doing those things even if they know about them They don't want to earn success , they want and expect it to be handed to them without effort. In this case, people want gate camps (and any other form of unwanted aggression) to be impossible.... Ships that can warp cloaked don't matter. The age old MWD+cloak trick (that I use to push my mission running machariel through gate camps in low sec, haven't lost one yet) doesn't matter. The new bonuses to deep space transports meant to give you a fighting chance to make it back to a gate doesn't matter. Friends don't matter. Scout alts don't matter. low sec to low sec wormhoels don't matter. NOTHING matters to them other than the fact that (GASP) people playing a sandbox video game can hurt them so CCP make it go away! They want a game developer to program away their individual weakness, which is why no amount of nerfing stuff ever satisfies them because CCP can never fix the actual problem (the ultra-risk averse player). Quote: Quote: 2. By the time you can access your instaundock after undocking, sebo T3 ships have already locked and shot you, by virtue of the fact that you'll show up on grid before you actually load on your client side. Owen Levanth's reply mentions exactly how to avoid this. Are you not aware of invulnerability timer on undock? Don't mash the warp button soon as you emerge. It's the worst thing you can do. That guy you replied to must be playing on a Commodore 64 or something lol. If your client takes 30 seconds+ to load grid and you're not in a 1000 man fleet fight, it's time to upgrade.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6712	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:49:49 - [183] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: 2. By the time you can access your instaundock after undocking, sebo T3 ships have already locked and shot you, by virtue of the fact that you'll show up on grid before you actually load on your client side. cheers for showing us all you are in no way experienced enough to call for anything more than a pizza. undock......ctrl-space...dock....blow raspberrys in local. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5846	Posted - 2014.11.12 14:51:40 - [184] - Quote The pure, noble lands of low security space are not for the likes of those too afraid to go there anyway, so I really don't care what your excuses are OP. The important thing here is that there's one less filthy carebear to deal with out here. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
somedudeinaship Star Whorz 43	Posted - 2014.11.12 15:18:20 - [185] - Quote One of the biggest problems I have is a feeling of being overwhelmed and freezing up. This is likely due to being depressed and anxious irl of course. But frankly all that information on the overview, and then not knowing how to tell what direction they are moving (despite some people apparently putting the camera on the enemy ship which would confuse me even more), and more just gets so damn confusing. I tried using an arty fit Rifter with a very low skilled (710k) pilot and I couldn't hit the Kestrel I was trying to attack. I am guessing it's due to poor turret tracking and artillery sucking inside brawling range??? But freezing up really sucks. I basically look at all the information I have in front of me and have no clue how to process it all quick enough to matter. EDIT: I believe the name for what I am suffering from is Deer in Healights Syndrome.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8986	Posted - 2014.11.12 15:24:43 - [186] - Quote somedudeinaship wrote: One of the biggest problems I have is a feeling of being overwhelmed and freezing up. This is likely due to being depressed and anxious irl of course. But frankly all that information on the overview, and then not knowing how to tell what direction they are moving (despite some people apparently putting the camera on the enemy ship which would confuse me even more), and more just gets so damn confusing. I tried using an arty fit Rifter with a very low skilled (710k) pilot and I couldn't hit the Kestrel I was trying to attack. I am guessing it's due to poor turret tracking and artillery sucking inside brawling range??? But freezing up really sucks. I basically look at all the information I have in front of me and have no clue how to process it all quick enough to matter. I had a corp mate back when I was in Atlas Alliance who reported having the same real life issue and it caused him problem in game. What we did with him was got him to train for cruiser and battle cruisers and learn how to use the ones with defensive bonuses. His favorite became the Maller. It wasn't fast, and he still died, but with the fit we had him use it took a whole for people to kill it, giving him enough time to process what all was going on and many times he'd fight his way out of situations where other folks might have gotten blown up. If you have a problem with freezing up but want to pvp, learn to use and fit up ships that don't die quickly and don't rely on speed, just like he did.
somedudeinaship Star Whorz 43	Posted - 2014.11.12 15:33:28 - [187] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: somedudeinaship wrote: One of the biggest problems I have is a feeling of being overwhelmed and freezing up. This is likely due to being depressed and anxious irl of course. But frankly all that information on the overview, and then not knowing how to tell what direction they are moving (despite some people apparently putting the camera on the enemy ship which would confuse me even more), and more just gets so damn confusing. I tried using an arty fit Rifter with a very low skilled (710k) pilot and I couldn't hit the Kestrel I was trying to attack. I am guessing it's due to poor turret tracking and artillery sucking inside brawling range??? But freezing up really sucks. I basically look at all the information I have in front of me and have no clue how to process it all quick enough to matter. I had a corp mate back when I was in Atlas Alliance who reported having the same real life issue and it caused him problem in game. What we did with him was got him to train for cruiser and battle cruisers and learn how to use the ones with defensive bonuses. His favorite became the Maller. It wasn't fast, and he still died, but with the fit we had him use it took a whole for people to kill it, giving him enough time to process what all was going on and many times he'd fight his way out of situations where other folks might have gotten blown up. If you have a problem with freezing up but want to pvp, learn to use and fit up ships that don't die quickly and don't rely on speed, just like he did. Funny you say that because I have had some success with cruisers. Seems frigate pilots love to attack anything, even a cruiser, which makes for slightly easier kills if you can catch them or slow them down enough to take chunks out of their ships hp.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 54	Posted - 2014.11.12 16:53:56 - [188] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: 2. By the time you can access your instaundock after undocking, sebo T3 ships have already locked and shot you, by virtue of the fact that you'll show up on grid before you actually load on your client side. cheers for showing us all you are in no way experienced enough to call for anything more than a pizza. undock......ctrl-space...dock....blow raspberrys in local. That only tells me that you've got no clue. Been shot at by station camping T3s while trying to undock many times. They lock on the moment you're out of invincibility state and able to warp off, and often the grid loads AFTER that state has disappeared. Keep talking like a fool though. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6715	Posted - 2014.11.12 17:02:40 - [189] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: 2. By the time you can access your instaundock after undocking, sebo T3 ships have already locked and shot you, by virtue of the fact that you'll show up on grid before you actually load on your client side. cheers for showing us all you are in no way experienced enough to call for anything more than a pizza. undock......ctrl-space...dock....blow raspberrys in local. That only tells me that you've got no clue. Been shot at by station camping T3s while trying to undock many times. They lock on the moment you're out of invincibility state and able to warp off, and often the grid loads AFTER that state has disappeared. Keep talking like a fool though. if this is happening to you then use an instant undock, you are uncatchable if you do it properly. if the grid loads after the state has cleared then i recommend upgrading from an abacus to a potato because none of us have this issue (budget potato user reporting in btw) "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1088	Posted - 2014.11.12 17:05:02 - [190] - Quote ->Jumps into lowsec ->Jumps into gate camped system without scouting There's the problem. Yes, you'll die if you jump into a common entry to lowsec or chokepoint. Try something more out of the way. Kubinen for example has people who roam in there but barely ever camp. (Although it's a pocket) Akidagi is sometimes camped but not constantly since it has no station in the system. (IE people can't base there) Also Ihakana, Otsasai and Jan aren't camped much. Bunch of other pretty deserted places to enter lowsec in The Forge like Osaa, Eruka, Ohkunen, etc. And don't get me started on Khanid lowsec. That's like the most deserted place in the game. Almost all lowsec is interconnected. The least safe part of travel is getting into lowsec. After that it's almost as safe as empire space if you aren't autopiloting and ur in something smaller than a cruiser. TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us My ship fits

Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8987	Posted - 2014.11.12 17:06:31 - [191] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Invuln timer only works if grid loads before it wears off. You keep mentioning something like this. What kind of connection are you playing on, what kind of hardware? Because let me tell you, if you aren't loading grid till after that long ass invul timer is up, you've got a real problem on your end. But that still means the problem is on your end. Either you have some seriously bad computer problems are you're seriously incompetent when it comes to low sec gameplay. I play in low sec a lot. I use the MWD+cloak trick to get past gate camps with a MACHARIEL. I have multiple insta-undock bookmarks at every station I use. I've NEVER bee caught undocking when warping to an insta, not once. It's not hard, lots of people do it every day.
Black Panpher Ganja Inc 2393	Posted - 2014.11.12 17:10:01 - [192] - Quote I love Lowsec because NO BUBBLES!
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4145	Posted - 2014.11.12 17:11:36 - [193] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: Invuln timer only works if grid loads before it wears off. You keep mentioning something like this. What kind of connection are you playing on, what kind of hardware? Because let me tell you, if you aren't loading grid till after that long ass invul timer is up, you've got a real problem on your end. i never had this issue playing on a 2011 two-hundred-dollar laptop from australia
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4145	Posted - 2014.11.12 17:13:29 - [194] - Quote the enchange rate is basically one downundadolla to one freedombuck btw
Jvpiter Jovelike 37	Posted - 2014.11.12 17:49:49 - [195] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: You cant log into an account twice. Invuln timer only works if grid loads before it wears off. Sebo T3s can still insta-lock you even if you can catch the timer. I've actually HAD this happen. if your scouting alt is on the same account then you have to log in, scout, log off, log in, warp, etc. Gate camps don't appear in a matter of seconds, and certainly not surprising in any way if you can read Local beforehand. You can argue about how tedious this might be, but my point is that it's better than losing an expensive ship. Regarding getting killed on the undock: ) I have a hard time believing your grid not loading in 30 seconds. If what you are saying is true then troubleshoot your computer and your network connection, and file a ticket if nothing on your end is at fault. Have you done any of these things? ) A fleetmate can be waiting in a safe in the same system. Upon undock he can mash fleet warp and you should be warp without the need for the grid to load on your end. I feel like your approach to the problem is one dimensional. This, more than anything, may be at fault for your ship losses.
Jvpiter Jovelike 37	Posted - 2014.11.12 18:01:08 - [196] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: the enchange rate is basically one downundadolla to one freedombuck btw We just deal in spacebucks here, you filthy scammer.
Domanique Altares Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 3403	Posted - 2014.11.12 18:13:10 - [197] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: Invuln timer only works if grid loads before it wears off. You keep mentioning something like this. What kind of connection are you playing on, what kind of hardware? Because let me tell you, if you aren't loading grid till after that long ass invul timer is up, you've got a real problem on your end. i never had this issue playing on a 2011 two-hundred-dollar laptop from australia I never had this issue playing on a 2008 laptop that didn't even meet the minimum system requirements. Someone has a serious computer issue, or connection latency from hell. "i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2041	Posted - 2014.11.12 18:44:23 - [198] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Undocking from a station is an insta-loss when there's a sebo around. By the time the grid loads and you have control of your ship, you're already locked. LOLOLOLOLOLOL Next you'll say that a sensor booster allows the nasty people to lock you INSIDE THE STATION! Oh noes, the baddies killed me while I was spinning my ship! Even got the counter to 992... then... boom! Seriously, we all had to learn stuff and we're all still learning. So ask somebody that actually knows game mechanics before jumping to conclusions. FWIW: 1. Undock 2. Don't touch anything 3. Your ship will be going full speed ahead 4. You will be invulnerable for exactly 30 seconds. Invulnerable means both unlockable AND UNBUMPABLE (try it in Jita) 5. Warp to a bookmark directly in front of you (you have to prepare it first, obviously) 6. Ship warps instantly 7. If you do this, nothing will ever lock you, including sebos, magic wands, aliens and those wonderful unicorns we have in lowsec Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 811	Posted - 2014.11.12 18:55:26 - [199] - Quote tl:dr for the entire thread: If you are going to LOLSec for solo PvE, don't. You will spend 95% of your time evading PvP and while it can be done, you didn't go there to play Evade PvP.
Lfod Shi Lfod's Ratting and Salvage 221	Posted - 2014.11.12 19:05:51 - [200] - Quote Ocih wrote: tl:dr for the entire thread: If you are going to LOLSec for solo PvE, don't. You will spend 95% of your time evading PvP and while it can be done, you didn't go there to play Evade PvP. Yes I did. That's my favorite game! GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½

Lupe Meza Hedion University Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2014.11.12 19:11:42 - [201] - Quote Ocih wrote: tl:dr for the entire thread: If you are going to LOLSec for solo PvE, don't. You will spend 95% of your time evading PvP and while it can be done, you didn't go there to play Evade PvP. Pretty much. The pages of tips on how to avoid getting 'sploded...was well, weird. Like foxes selling Henhouse locks. It's like they WANT ultra carebears descending on them like a risk immune uncatchable unkillable super virus; running their anoms, depleting there resources, and eating that leftover pizza in the fridge they were waiting all day to come home and enjoy...but NoooooooooooooOOOo. Screw you Tom. But I digress, it just seems like everybody's time would just be wasted. PVPer's would barely get PvP out of it, the bears get nothing as well. Just a whole lot of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OavTXXrC2Bc
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8990	Posted - 2014.11.12 19:13:52 - [202] - Quote Ocih wrote: tl:dr for the entire thread: If you are going to LOLSec for solo PvE, don't. You will spend 95% of your time evading PvP and while it can be done, you didn't go there to play Evade PvP. This is not really true. Lots of low sec is empty and depending on the time of day/night you can pve pretty much unmolested. I've done so many a night. And given that the vast majority of low sec pve is done in deadspace (ie you have to scan down the person doing the pve, unlike in incursions and faction warfare pve which has bright whiny beacons to tell you were people are, and null sec anoms which don't have beacons but are otherwise totally open/warpable), low sec pve is demonstrably safer than most other places. With a carrier and the skills to use fighters (and an insta undock bookmark for each station you use), a cyno alt and faction standings above 7 for whatever faction you run for, you can blitz lvl 5 missions in near perfect safety, not being in any one mission more than 1.5 minutes, not even having to wait to recall drones (because fighters can warp also). Someone HAS to use probes to find you, and all you have to do is watch d-scan for those. You can make people give up trying it you do it right lol. And you don't even have to do lvl 5s or spend a lot of isk or have a lot of skill points to do low sec. You don't need a corp backing you. You can get away without even needing a scout if you plan right. if you watch videos like that Russian youtube guys does you might need a supply of kleenex and lotion, but that's optional (lol). Telling people to not even try is exactly what's wrong with high sec players. not gankers, not scammers, not "CONCORDin high sec/low sec gate guns not strong enough!". Actual players telling people it can't be done is the problem.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8990	Posted - 2014.11.12 19:20:05 - [203] - Quote Lupe Meza wrote: Ocih wrote: tl:dr for the entire thread: If you are going to LOLSec for solo PvE, don't. You will spend 95% of your time evading PvP and while it can be done, you didn't go there to play Evade PvP. Pretty much. The pages of tips on how to avoid getting 'sploded...was well, weird. Like foxes selling Henhouse locks. It's like they WANT ultra carebears descending on them like a risk immune uncatchable unkillable super virus; running their anoms, depleting there resources, and eating that leftover pizza in the fridge they were waiting all day to come home and enjoy...but NoooooooooooooOOOo. Screw you Tom. But I digress, it just seems like everybody's time would just be wasted. PVPer's would barely get PvP out of it, the bears get nothing as well. Just a whole lot of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OavTXXrC2Bc This has to be the perfect example of my last post. 1st of all, we are talking LOW SEC. How do you 'deplete' lvl 4 and 5 mission agents? Hell, you can't deplete resources in null either. High sec people love to hide behind the "they just want to kill you" wall because it makes them fell better than admitting that they are scared of doing things in a video game. While i don't believe people should be pushed out of high sec (if they can't live successfully outside of high sec of their own free will, they surely wouldn't even play if forced to do outside high sec), it's mind boggling that people on this forum actually think that someone would lie to them to get them become a target. That level of paranoia describes the type of person whose free time would be better spent with someone who has a couch in his office and will ask you questions about you relationship with your parents (lol).
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 813	Posted - 2014.11.12 19:27:52 - [204] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Ocih wrote: tl:dr for the entire thread: If you are going to LOLSec for solo PvE, don't. You will spend 95% of your time evading PvP and while it can be done, you didn't go there to play Evade PvP. This is not really true. Lots of low sec is empty and depending on the time of day/night you can pve pretty much unmolested. I've done so many a night. And given that the vast majority of low sec pve is done in deadspace (ie you have to scan down the person doing the pve, unlike in incursions and faction warfare pve which has bright whiny beacons to tell you were people are, and null sec anoms which don't have beacons but are otherwise totally open/warpable), low sec pve is demonstrably safer than most other places. With a carrier and the skills to use fighters (and an insta undock bookmark for each station you use), a cyno alt and faction standings above 7 for whatever faction you run for, you can blitz lvl 5 missions in near perfect safety, not being in any one mission more than 1.5 minutes, not even having to wait to recall drones (because fighters can warp also). Someone HAS to use probes to find you, and all you have to do is watch d-scan for those. You can make people give up trying it you do it right lol. And you don't even have to do lvl 5s or spend a lot of isk or have a lot of skill points to do low sec. You don't need a corp backing you. You can get away without even needing a scout if you plan right. if you watch videos like that Russian youtube guys does you might need a supply of kleenex and lotion, but that's optional (lol). Telling people to not even try is exactly what's wrong with high sec players. not gankers, not scammers, not "CONCORDin high sec/low sec gate guns not strong enough!". Actual players telling people it can't be done is the problem. rubbish I lived in Solitude low sec for the first 8 months of EVE. There is no 'empty low sec'. There is roamed low sec and camped low sec. Roamed low sec has restricted PvE opportunity cycles and those cycles don't compete with high sec income. The only way low sec is more lucrative than high sec is if you have undisputed PvE because it's all a farm game. Low sec stations are still an alternative for making capital parts if you have no/ refuse to affiliate yourself with Null Sov entities. It could have been a haven for introduction PI but 30% and up tax sunk that ship long ago.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8990	Posted - 2014.11.12 20:09:00 - [205] - Quote Ocih wrote: rubbish I lived in Solitude low sec for the first 8 months of EVE. There is no 'empty low sec'. This is a lie. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=postmessage&t=384372&f=258&q=5202697 Notice the systems lela and keri. Their are plenty of low sec systems with fewer than 20 jump in per 24 hours, tha'ts pretty empty. And even if it's not empty, again, low sec pve is done in deadspace, it's easy to evade people trying to kill you. High Sec income can't compete with the 500 mil per hour a guy who can fly a carrier can make. I lived my 1st year in high sec listening to people like you lie to me about EVE. After faction warfare came out i joined, learned the ropes, and learned that low sec only requires an ounce more effort to be pretty safe to live in. I don't really care if high sec people learn this or not, I'm just correcting an untruth that I suffered from, that made me miss a whole YEAR of fun and loot because dumb but well meaning people were risk averse. This is why now i take new players with my to low to show them how not scary it is. Quote: There is roamed low sec and camped low sec. Roamed low sec has restricted PvE opportunity cycles and those cycles don't compete with high sec income. The only way low sec is more lucrative than high sec is if you have undisputed PvE because it's all a farm game. Low sec stations are still an alternative for making capital parts if you have no/ refuse to affiliate yourself with Null Sov entities. It could have been a haven for introduction PI but 30% and up tax sunk that ship long ago. Low sec is better for solo individual isk making that high sec or null sec or wormhole space (you need an organization in wormhole space to pull out better isk per hour than you can solo in low sec). As i told another guy in this thread, I'm not making this stuff up. Or this. Or this either. I don't know of a solo pve activity in high sec or null or wormhole space (with the exception of solo Dreads in c5 wormholes, which I have never done) that pays better than 200 mil per hour sustainably purely solo. ALL of the pve activities I listed above do that (because I do them depending on my mood, I have 3 carriers in adjacent systems for lvl 5s, 2 toons in 2 different militias and a naga + stabber fleet issue in a low sec sisters of EVE station). And with the exception of lvl 5s, the things i do to make isk in low require CHEAP low sp ships. I'll bet you any amount you want Ocih that you've never even tried some of the things I've linked, yet here you are telling people "don't even try". Perhaps the underling motivation is the same as the old saying of "misery loves company", but other than that, i can't figure out why folks like you believe what you do. I'm serious, try it if you don't believe me. find the right area of low sec, get you a naga and see what you can do.
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame 3020	Posted - 2014.11.12 20:27:04 - [206] - Quote well that's just unfortunate. should have checked traffic data for the systems you were going to. A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg Join Critically Preposterous today!
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame 3020	Posted - 2014.11.12 20:49:19 - [207] - Quote Ocih wrote: tl:dr for the entire thread: If you are going to LOLSec for solo PvE, don't. You will spend 95% of your time evading PvP and while it can be done, you didn't go there to play Evade PvP. I don't knowabout you, but when I'm lowsec exploring and I see probes on dscan, I'm just waiting for those guys to show up on grid so I can pew a few players while I jew. nobody comes. ever. A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg Join Critically Preposterous today!
Lupe Meza Hedion University Amarr Empire 37	Posted - 2014.11.12 21:29:47 - [208] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Lupe Meza wrote: Ocih wrote: tl:dr for the entire thread: If you are going to LOLSec for solo PvE, don't. You will spend 95% of your time evading PvP and while it can be done, you didn't go there to play Evade PvP. Pretty much. The pages of tips on how to avoid getting 'sploded...was well, weird. Like foxes selling Henhouse locks. It's like they WANT ultra carebears descending on them like a risk immune uncatchable unkillable super virus; running their anoms, depleting there resources, and eating that leftover pizza in the fridge they were waiting all day to come home and enjoy...but NoooooooooooooOOOo. Screw you Tom. But I digress, it just seems like everybody's time would just be wasted. PVPer's would barely get PvP out of it, the bears get nothing as well. Just a whole lot of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OavTXXrC2Bc This has to be the perfect example of my last post. 1st of all, we are talking LOW SEC. How do you 'deplete' lvl 4 and 5 mission agents? Hell, you can't deplete resources in null either. High sec people love to hide behind the "they just want to kill you" wall because it makes them fell better than admitting that they are scared of doing things in a video game. While i don't believe people should be pushed out of high sec (if they can't live successfully outside of high sec of their own free will, they surely wouldn't even play if forced to do outside high sec), it's mind boggling that people on this forum actually think that someone would lie to them to get them become a target. That level of paranoia describes the type of person whose free time would be better spent with someone who has a couch in his office and will ask you questions about you relationship with your parents (lol). First of all I play in all regions of space, so you can kill all that kneejerk "high sec" people noise and accompanying prattling, postering, and assumptions that go with. I don't believe in limiting myself in my enjoyment of EVE, especially from some need to identify with some elite group of capsuleers that thinks they are more of an EVE player because of the region of space they play in, or how they play. They may be better at a particular aspects, or all aspects, but at the end of the day it is a videogame as you so astutely observed. It is because is a videogame am not "scared" to do anything in said videogame. That doesn't mean I need to be foolish with my isk and time either, isk IS time for everyone in this game. How much time depends on how many alts you have bankrolling you and how many SP you have. Low is not for everyone. That is a fact. The risks outweigh the reward not so much because of the danger associated with the risk, but because of the time you have to waste on monotonous risk mitigating tasks just to do some monotonous solo PvE, which is what most carebears want to do. If something happens to you doing PvE in low, if you are lucky you can dock up and wait the enemy out; not making any isk, or at worst explode, losing whatever isk they made. You can also fight. Because we know how well a PVE fit ship does. Of course you could try to PVE in a PVP fit ship which is anything but optimal and kills the point of low for greater rewards when you run the content more slowly. And even then, daytripping highsec player vs salty pirate in pirate frig complete with boosts and one-eyed parrot isn't very good odds. You can call the missioner "scared", I would call the "not stupid" for avoiding that fight, or better yet not being in that situation in the first place given what their goals in EVE are. If you goals are "good fights" and adventure or something like that, then the rewards would be worth it because of those extra factors you get. But don't assume that everybody gets enjoyment out of the same things you do. I would be bored out of my mind sitting on a gate in a bunch of T3's for hours waiting for some hauler or mission ship to derp through, but hey, different strokes. Low is great for those that want fights and to earn some nice cash, but if you don't like to fight or plan to avoid fighting it's a bad move for most and it is not a bad thing to warn against it. Most of the advice here requires SP and account investments some people aren't willing to make or just don't want to make. Nothing wrong with those players staying in High. It's only as cowardly as shooting at missioning carebears in a blob or a boosted pirate frigs and cruisers is an act of courage. No one said anything false, Low is full of people that want to shoot ships and the easier and shinier the ship is the more likely they will spend their time tracking it down to shoot it. It is not the game mechanics that make low a bad place to go for a carebear, it is the diametrically opposed player behaviors. It just ends up with one player having a ball and the other not so much. If after you account for all the risk mitigation and running, you'd pull in more ISK in high, not because the reward is so great, but because you can more consistently do what you're logged in to do, you'd be a fool to go to Low to prove you're not "scurred". Which is probably why most advise against it. I will concede most that advise against it never really leave high. But that is not me, and I can say that in fact yes, low is a den of scum and villainy. You get all the null alts that can't shoot anyone in null because they're in the same alliance and can't figure out how to spend all that money, you get the FW dudes that shoot everything and can't blow up enough t1 ships to spend all their money, and you have the pirates who shoot everyone and take their money. And it is for that reason I love it. And post on an alt. It is also for this reason that if you go there and you KNOW you are a huge carebear you better know what you're doing or be flying something cloaky. That's just the truth.
Karl Jerr Herzack Unit 54	Posted - 2014.11.12 21:49:42 - [209] - Quote Ocih wrote: tl:dr for the entire thread: If you are going to LOLSec for solo PvE, don't. You will spend 95% of your time evading PvP and while it can be done, you didn't go there to play Evade PvP. 95% hahaha why not 100% too? Evade PVP, which is a PVP form, is one part of this game.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 8995	Posted - 2014.11.12 22:15:35 - [210] - Quote Lupe Meza wrote: nonsense Pretty much none of what you say is actually true, it's just what lazy people tyell themselves to justify ignoring a painful truth that a video game is too tough for them. It doesn't take hardly ANY effort to live in low sec. It takes even less effort to make mroe isk than you could doing the same thing in high sec. I don't care where someone plays, what I dislike is the...excuse making people do. it's enough to say "it's fine but it's not for me". I can live in a wormhole but it's not optimal for me, so I don't do it, but I don't pretend that my preference is based on some terrible thing about wormholes, it's just a preference. That you have to write a book justiftying your incorrect and easily disprvable ideas about low sec says more than any post of mine can. The simple fact is that low sec is the most lucrative solo pve ground in the game by a signifigant long shot. Lots of people in high sec don't understand this because their friends and mentors are ...lets just be charitable here and say 'mistaken'. Lots of rents in null don't understand either because even though it's less isk , it's easier to farm anomalies for liquid isk. But that ignorance and presonal preference aside, it is a verifiable FACT that low sec is the best solo pve space available in the game. You can't make 2-600 mil with a stealthbomber anywhere else in game. You can't make a sustainable 500 mil per hour with a single carrier anywhere else in EVE. you sure as hell can't make 300 mil in any pve in eve except low sec lvl 4 missions with a naga. And because low sec odens't allow bubbles, their is ZERO ways to 100% prevent someone from PVEing unlike npc null. Again, if you have to make such long winded excuses to justify a prefence (ie not liking low sec), that says something, and that something isn't good.

Kaely Tanniss Aurora Novae Aetatis 61	Posted - 2014.11.12 22:47:21 - [211] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Jvpiter wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: That's pretty much a lie. A gatecamp is a sure loss. If you're the first person of today's kill, then you're not going to see ships destroyed in the map. Use an alt or a corpie as a scout. I'm not sure how it's possible to encounter a gate camp if you are using one. Quote: Undocking from a station is an insta-loss when there's a sebo around. By the time the grid loads and you have control of your ship, you're already locked. Undock. Hit ctrl+space. Survey your surroundings while you are invulnerable. You can dock back up and go do something else if you don't like what you see. And why would you ever operate without an instaundock? 1. An alt is another account. So you're saying pay more money to actually play the game, or maybe to carebear by avoiding risk by throwing real world money at the situation? 2. By the time you can access your instaundock after undocking, sebo T3 ships have already locked and shot you, by virtue of the fact that you'll show up on grid before you actually load on your client side. In response to your point #1, most people that play Eve have multiple accounts. If you are going to fly solo, it is your best option. No...throwing money at the "issue" isn't a solution to the problem, however..if the trivial amount of $15 per month for additional security and intelligence is too much, perhaps you shouldn't be playing games. You can even create a temporary trial account for just that purpose..rinse, repeat. @ point #2...that's ludicrous. It sounds like the issue is on your end..either computer or isp. There is a period of invulnerability after you undock. If you are under attack already by the time you load on grid, chances are the issue is on your end. Though I will admit in a highly populated system, such as Jita, there can be a bit of a lag loading on grid. These are all risks you take any time you undck...anywhere in Eve. The bottom line is, if you have issues losing ships..or are unwilling to lose them..you are more than likely playing the wrong game. After all, glorious spaceship explosions are what Eve is all about. Make some friends and fly in small gangs. If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.12 22:51:51 - [212] - Quote Kaely Tanniss wrote: babble Or, some of us, like me, enjoy the safety and security of highsec. Being able to run L4s and incursions with minimal risk, no dscan, and infallible CONCORD allies. Personally I find that a lot more rewarding than dealing with the irritating dangers of lowsec.
Jvpiter Jovelike 45	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:18:41 - [213] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaely Tanniss wrote: babble Or, some of us, like me, enjoy the safety and security of highsec. Being able to run L4s and incursions with minimal risk, no dscan, and infallible CONCORD allies. Personally I find that a lot more rewarding than dealing with the irritating dangers of lowsec. It makes sense to redesign PVE opportunities that encourage risk averse behavior to such an extreme. It's almost as if you are pleased that you don't have to interact with another human being in an MMO.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:21:22 - [214] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaely Tanniss wrote: babble Or, some of us, like me, enjoy the safety and security of highsec. Being able to run L4s and incursions with minimal risk, no dscan, and infallible CONCORD allies. Personally I find that a lot more rewarding than dealing with the irritating dangers of lowsec. It makes sense to redesign PVE opportunities that encourage risk averse behavior to such an extreme. It's almost as if you are pleased that you don't have to interact with another human being in an MMO. It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it. But I do agree somewhat, as nerfing awoxxing/ganking/theft/wardeccs would make it a lot easier and safer to interact with people in highsec. Maybe you should start a movement?
Mag's the united 18159	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:28:53 - [215] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: That only tells me that you've got no clue. Been shot at by station camping T3s while trying to undock many times. They lock on the moment you're out of invincibility state and able to warp off, and often the grid loads AFTER that state has disappeared. Keep talking like a fool though. If you do not load before the timer expires, then the fault lies at your end, not with the game. But I have a feeling you're either clueless or lying, in this regard. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2527	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:31:54 - [216] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: it's mind boggling that people on this forum actually think that someone would lie to them to get them become a target. You can't be serious. I don't disagree with your overall points, but this bit? This bit happens all the time. But yeah, lowsec, null, and WH's are not particularly dangerous. You just need an adequate knowledge of the mechanics in each of those types of space and you can avoid 99.9% of unwanted hostile encounters.
Jvpiter Jovelike 45	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:32:25 - [217] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it. But I do agree somewhat, as nerfing awoxxing/ganking/theft/wardeccs would make it a lot easier and safer to interact with people in highsec. Maybe you should start a movement? You can't please everybody, not in life and certainly not in game design. You yourself have written a contradiction. If we removed elements of crime from hisec how would that please those players who enjoy this sort of thing. Which brings us to the question: Which sort of player should we cater to? ) The Veers Belvar who proudly declares that he enjoys in game activity specifically designed so that he never has to interact with someone ) A player whose gameplay cannot be separated from human interaction For an MMO? It's not tough which sort of player we should choose to cater to.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 224	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:37:24 - [218] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it. That is not possible, nor is it goal worthy. Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:48:31 - [219] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it. But I do agree somewhat, as nerfing awoxxing/ganking/theft/wardeccs would make it a lot easier and safer to interact with people in highsec. Maybe you should start a movement? You can't please everybody, not in life and certainly not in game design. You yourself have written a contradiction. If we removed elements of crime from hisec how would that please those players who enjoy this sort of thing. Which brings us to the question: Which sort of player should we cater to? ) The Veers Belvar who proudly declares that he enjoys in game activity specifically designed so that he never has to interact with someone ) A player whose gameplay cannot be separated from human interaction For an MMO? It's not tough which sort of player we should choose to cater to. Personally I think we should cater to those who follow the law rather than criminals. This means pvp players in low/null, and pve players in high. And just cuz I don't blow other people up doesn't make it a single player game. I do collaborative PvE, which is just as interactive as PvP.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10586	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:49:15 - [220] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it. That is not possible, nor is it goal worthy. Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment. When you have a game whose popularity is entirely due to catering to a specific niche, throwing away that niche for "everyone" is a good way to make sure that no one enjoys it. I for one question why his enjoyment of the game is so dependent on the removal of everything the game design actually stands for. Why not just play a different game? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

Paranoid Loyd 2581	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:52:00 - [221] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment. Sex "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Jvpiter Jovelike 46	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:55:19 - [222] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment. Sex Not everyone enjoys sex. It's true.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 226	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:55:59 - [223] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment. Sex Eunuchs
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:58:40 - [224] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it. That is not possible, nor is it goal worthy. Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment. When you have a game whose popularity is entirely due to catering to a specific niche, throwing away that niche for "everyone" is a good way to make sure that no one enjoys it. I for one question why his enjoyment of the game is so dependent on the removal of everything the game design actually stands for. Why not just play a different game? Popularity of Eve is not due to awoxxing/ganking/scamming, etc.... Some popularity is due to nullsec, much popularity is due to highsec PvE, player driven markets, etc.... The actual highsec griefer population is pretty low, a few tens of people. That I enjoy many parts of the game keeps me playing, as I advocate changing those I feel are detrimental to the game.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10589	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:09:38 - [225] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: much popularity is due to highsec PvE Citation needed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Daerrol Death By Design Did he say Jump 8	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:10:32 - [226] - Quote i do not find many gatecamps in lowsec... fleets often rally on a gate or had l on it buft it is not a camp just a rally point
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 227	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:11:06 - [227] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it. That is not possible, nor is it goal worthy. Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment. When you have a game whose popularity is entirely due to catering to a specific niche, throwing away that niche for "everyone" is a good way to make sure that no one enjoys it. I for one question why his enjoyment of the game is so dependent on the removal of everything the game design actually stands for. Why not just play a different game? Popularity of Eve is not due to awoxxing/ganking/scamming, etc.... Some popularity is due to nullsec, much popularity is due to highsec PvE, player driven markets, etc.... The actual highsec griefer population is pretty low, a few tens of people. That I enjoy many parts of the game keeps me playing, as I advocate changing those I feel are detrimental to the game. It is inherently dishonest to present your likes as being mutually beneficial and your dislikes as being detrimental to the whole. To me it reveals more of your character than any discussion about balancing game mechanics. It amuses me that you choose to ignore your obvious clear fallacy while quoting it yourself.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:11:35 - [228] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: much popularity is due to highsec PvE Citation needed. Estimate for me what % of the playerbase is highsec "carebears" 40%? 50?
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10589	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:12:05 - [229] - Quote And yes, I'm serious about the citation thing. This game has pretty much the worst PvE content of any contemporary MMO. In highsec especially, it barely justifies it's place on the server. So I feel quite confident in telling you that this game has not survived for more than a decade on the backs of it's two most boring aspects. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:12:46 - [230] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it. That is not possible, nor is it goal worthy. Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment. When you have a game whose popularity is entirely due to catering to a specific niche, throwing away that niche for "everyone" is a good way to make sure that no one enjoys it. I for one question why his enjoyment of the game is so dependent on the removal of everything the game design actually stands for. Why not just play a different game? Popularity of Eve is not due to awoxxing/ganking/scamming, etc.... Some popularity is due to nullsec, much popularity is due to highsec PvE, player driven markets, etc.... The actual highsec griefer population is pretty low, a few tens of people. That I enjoy many parts of the game keeps me playing, as I advocate changing those I feel are detrimental to the game. It is inherently dishonest to present your likes as being mutually beneficial and your dislikes as being detrimental to the whole. To me it reveals more of your character than any discussion about balancing game mechanics. It amuses me that you choose to ignore your obvious clear fallacy while quoting it yourself. Not true, I was responding to the question of why I keep playing. The vast majority of the people living in highsec would like it to be safer. That's not Veers - that's reality.

Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10589	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:12:59 - [231] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: much popularity is due to highsec PvE Citation needed. Estimate for me what % of the playerbase is highsec "carebears" 40%? 50? 15% or less. More than half of highsec is alts. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:15:32 - [232] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: much popularity is due to highsec PvE Citation needed. Estimate for me what % of the playerbase is highsec "carebears" 40%? 50? 15% or less. More than half of highsec is alts. Isboxed alts of the same people. Of human people, especially consider the highsec PvE players usually have 1 account, the majority are the miner/mission runner carebears you guys so detest. And they definitely are not to attracted to Eve for ganking/awoxxing/scamming/wardeccs/theft
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 228	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:25:54 - [233] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Not true, I was responding to the question of why I keep playing. The vast majority of the people living in highsec would like it to be safer. That's not Veers - that's reality. Again you ignored your fallacy. Now you present another. The vast majority of high sec play the game their way and never voice an opinion on anything. For you to claim the vast majority want greater safety, is again another lie. You have no proof, no evidence beyond anecdotal and no way of gaining either.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10589	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:27:23 - [234] - Quote So many unverified assumptions. First that most PvE players have but one account. Second that they are in any way a majority among players. Third that every one of them is as grotesquely risk averse as you are. Here's a hint. If your version of this was the truth, this game would have died a long, long time ago. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:29:38 - [235] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Not true, I was responding to the question of why I keep playing. The vast majority of the people living in highsec would like it to be safer. That's not Veers - that's reality. Again you ignored your fallacy. Now you present another. The vast majority of high sec play the game their way and never voice an opinion on anything. For you to claim the vast majority want greater safety, is again another lie. You have no proof, no evidence beyond anecdotal and no way of gaining either. And yet their entire playstyle is devoted to mining and mission running with minimal interaction with others. And when they do get ganked they complain profusely. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out what they think. But do keep babbling about fallacies, it is so amusing....your next "fallacy" should be opposing the statement that most people in America feel that armed robbery and murder should be illegal.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:31:16 - [236] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: So many unverified assumptions. First that most PvE players have but one account. Second that they are in any way a majority among players. Third that every one of them is as grotesquely risk averse as you are. Here's a hint. If your version of this was the truth, this game would have died a long, long time ago. Because the game would absolutely collapse if highsec was for PvE, and low/null was for PvP. I mean without suicide ganking/awoxxing/wardeccs/scamming/theft Eve would absolute collapse.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 229	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:31:54 - [237] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: much popularity is due to highsec PvE Citation needed. Estimate for me what % of the playerbase is highsec "carebears" 40%? 50? 15% or less. More than half of highsec is alts. Isboxed alts of the same people. Of human people, especially consider the highsec PvE players usually have 1 account, the majority are the miner/mission runner carebears you guys so detest. And they definitely are not to attracted to Eve for ganking/awoxxing/scamming/wardeccs/theft Again with inaccurate supposition. Thanks for including my high sec alts in your carebear statistics. Also amusing that mentally someone says alts and you come out with isoboxer.
Jvpiter Jovelike 46	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:34:11 - [238] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Isboxed alts of the same people. Of human people, especially consider the highsec PvE players usually have 1 account, the majority are the miner/mission runner carebears you guys so detest. And they definitely are not to attracted to Eve for ganking/awoxxing/scamming/wardeccs/theft You have no data to support this assertion. There aren't throngs of EVE players running to you to reveal how many alts they do or don't have. How could you possibly know how many people just have 1 alt? CCP have never released data which correlates number of people to one security space or another. Your so-called highest concentration of pilots occurs in an area of the game that maximizes ISK, involves very little risk, and is accessible to players with low and high SP counts equally. It is not surprising that this is the case. Animals will always converge in areas where food is available to them, and prefer areas with low risk and low barrier of entry. It doesn't mean we suddenly find ways to remove predators from the ecosystem entirely, which you are advocating. You are paving the path for the multiboxed farmer to run your precious 1 account PVErs out of the game. The so-called criminals are the only natural predator keeping this catastrophic scenario at bay.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:38:52 - [239] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Isboxed alts of the same people. Of human people, especially consider the highsec PvE players usually have 1 account, the majority are the miner/mission runner carebears you guys so detest. And they definitely are not to attracted to Eve for ganking/awoxxing/scamming/wardeccs/theft You have no data to support this assertion. There aren't throngs of EVE players running to you to reveal how many alts they do or don't have. How could you possibly know how many people just have 1 alt? CCP have never released data which correlates number of people to one security space or another. Your so-called highest concentration of pilots occurs in an area of the game that maximizes ISK, involves very little risk, and is accessible to players with low and high SP counts equally. It is not surprising that this is the case. Animals will always converge in areas where food is available to them, and prefer areas with low risk and low barrier of entry. It doesn't mean we suddenly find ways to remove predators from the ecosystem entirely, which you are advocating. You are paving the path for the multiboxed farmer to run your precious 1 account PVErs out of the game. The so-called criminals are the only natural predator keeping this catastrophic scenario at bay. hahahhahahhaha.......highsec "maximizes isk" - you must be kidding? Heard of wormholes? nullsec? fw? Maybe highsec has a lot of people because eve players are looking to AVOID risk? Maybe that's what the playerbase ENJOYS? Seems like the game might want to cater to what people WANT? Gankers are not helping with the multibox problem. If anything they kill the casual players, and let the boxers win. CCP should ban isbotter and restrict players to 1 account logged on....not buff suicide ganking.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 231	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:39:59 - [240] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: So many unverified assumptions. First that most PvE players have but one account. Second that they are in any way a majority among players. Third that every one of them is as grotesquely risk averse as you are. Here's a hint. If your version of this was the truth, this game would have died a long, long time ago. Because the game would absolutely collapse if highsec was for PvE, and low/null was for PvP. I mean without suicide ganking/awoxxing/wardeccs/scamming/theft Eve would absolute collapse. Here is CCP Falcon's reply to some one who recently suggested high sec was not safe enough: CCP Falcon wrote: "Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec. There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness." Here is CCP Falcon's view on what makes Eve Online Special CCP Falcon wrote: "I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now. Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that. Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas. EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe. Sorry, but your scaremongering counter argument makes no sense to me and carries no weight :)" Veers; World of Warcraft has an update out today. Blizzard support much of the game play modes you are suggesting for Eve. Perhaps that is where you will find more happiness.

Mag's the united 18160	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:44:11 - [241] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Because the game would absolutely collapse if highsec was for PvE, and low/null was for PvP. I mean without suicide ganking/awoxxing/wardeccs/scamming/theft Eve would absolute collapse. Yes. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 233	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:45:37 - [242] - Quote Interestingly, while ignoring Falcon's (and thus CCP's) view in that very thread you stated you were not against eliminating high sec ganking - just altering the mechanics slightly. Now one month later and you want war decs out of High Sec. Lies upon lies.
Jvpiter Jovelike 48	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:48:18 - [243] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: hahahhahahhaha.......highsec "maximizes isk" - you must be kidding? Heard of wormholes? nullsec? fw? Maybe highsec has a lot of people because eve players are looking to AVOID risk? Maybe that's what the playerbase ENJOYS? Seems like the game might want to cater to what people WANT? Gankers are not helping with the multibox problem. If anything they kill the casual players, and let the boxers win. CCP should ban isbotter and restrict players to 1 account logged on....not buff suicide ganking. Read again. ISK isn't the only variable I mentioned. I also mentioned risk, time, and SP barrier of entry. To this I will also add skill required. All of these contribute to actual and perceived ISK per hour. ) FW has risk associated, and requires skill ) Wormholes have a high SP barrier of entry. Wormholes cannot be navigated without skill. *) Nullsec has perceived risk, which appears to be enough to deter many pilots. Having spent time in null, I will also argue there is an SP barrier for entry, if we are talking PVE activity that will earn you decent ISK. Nullsec cannot be lived in without skill. Since you didn't seem to catch the distinction the last time I said it, I'll try again. People and alts aren't the same thing. You have no data to assert that there are more people in hisec. There are more alts in hisec, but it is not the same thing. E: By "skill" I mean actual player skill. For example, mining in a Venture requires a low amount of actual player skill. I hope that makes sense.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10595	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:48:23 - [244] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Interestingly, while ignoring Falcon's (and thus CCP's) view in that very thread you stated you were not against eliminating high sec ganking - just altering the mechanics slightly. Now one month later and you want war decs out of High Sec. Lies upon lies. It's the end goal of every carebear, whether they admit to it or not. Trammel. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 265	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:54:00 - [245] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Interestingly, while ignoring Falcon's (and thus CCP's) view in that very thread you stated you were not against eliminating high sec ganking - just altering the mechanics slightly. Now one month later and you want war decs out of High Sec. Lies upon lies. Huh? There is a place for high sec ganking, but not by -10s. Wardeccs are kinda useless atm and if they can't be fixed to stop curbstomping new/casual players, then ya, chuck em. Ditto for theft.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 234	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:56:53 - [246] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Interestingly, while ignoring Falcon's (and thus CCP's) view in that very thread you stated you were not against eliminating high sec ganking - just altering the mechanics slightly. Now one month later and you want war decs out of High Sec. Lies upon lies. It's the end goal of every carebear, whether they admit to it or not. Trammel. He also claimed that his 1 man upstart corporation was impervious to the war decs of CODE. Now he wants wardecs removed. Well done CODE.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 267	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:58:25 - [247] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Interestingly, while ignoring Falcon's (and thus CCP's) view in that very thread you stated you were not against eliminating high sec ganking - just altering the mechanics slightly. Now one month later and you want war decs out of High Sec. Lies upon lies. It's the end goal of every carebear, whether they admit to it or not. Trammel. He also claimed that his 1 man upstart corporation was impervious to the war decs of CODE. Now he wants wardecs removed. Well done CODE. I'm immune cuz i stay in 1 man corp. other players want to be in real corps and get stomped. Like awoxxing it encourages social isolation and is bad for the game. Try to think before you post.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 234	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:01:53 - [248] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Interestingly, while ignoring Falcon's (and thus CCP's) view in that very thread you stated you were not against eliminating high sec ganking - just altering the mechanics slightly. Now one month later and you want war decs out of High Sec. Lies upon lies. It's the end goal of every carebear, whether they admit to it or not. Trammel. He also claimed that his 1 man upstart corporation was impervious to the war decs of CODE. Now he wants wardecs removed. Well done CODE. I'm immune cuz i stay in 1 man corp. other players want to be in real corps and get stomped. Like awoxxing it encourages social isolation and is bad for the game. Try to think before you post. Respond to Falcon. Everything else you post is meaningless.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 234	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:06:38 - [249] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Interestingly, while ignoring Falcon's (and thus CCP's) view in that very thread you stated you were not against eliminating high sec ganking - just altering the mechanics slightly. Now one month later and you want war decs out of High Sec. Lies upon lies. Huh? There is a place for high sec ganking, but not by -10s. Wardeccs are kinda useless atm and if they can't be fixed to stop curbstomping new/casual players, then ya, chuck em. Ditto for theft. Veers Belvar wrote: Roll Because the game would absolutely collapse if highsec was for PvE, and low/null was for PvP. I mean without suicide ganking/awoxxing/wardeccs/scamming/theft Eve would absolute collapse. Shocked Stop back tracking and be honest - firstly with yourself.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 267	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:11:13 - [250] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Interestingly, while ignoring Falcon's (and thus CCP's) view in that very thread you stated you were not against eliminating high sec ganking - just altering the mechanics slightly. Now one month later and you want war decs out of High Sec. Lies upon lies. Huh? There is a place for high sec ganking, but not by -10s. Wardeccs are kinda useless atm and if they can't be fixed to stop curbstomping new/casual players, then ya, chuck em. Ditto for theft. Veers Belvar wrote: Roll Because the game would absolutely collapse if highsec was for PvE, and low/null was for PvP. I mean without suicide ganking/awoxxing/wardeccs/scamming/theft Eve would absolute collapse. Shocked Stop back tracking and be honest - firstly with yourself. Game would survive if all ganking gone, doesn't mean the best thing to do is get rid of it. Use brain please. As for CCP Falcon, I am fine with risk/reward. But given ganking highsec needs a big buff and null/whs need a huge nerf. Dump people deserved to get ganked. But empty ships should not be getting ganked. need eff punishments on -10s. Busy playing, so short response.

Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10599	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:12:23 - [251] - Quote He can't be honest with himself, narcissists do not have the capacity. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 267	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:15:30 - [252] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: He can't be honest with himself, narcissists do not have the capacity. Keep trying trollboy.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6761	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:16:22 - [253] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: He can't be honest with himself, narcissists do not have the capacity. any excuse to throw a Caravaggio around "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10599	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:19:45 - [254] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: He can't be honest with himself, narcissists do not have the capacity. any excuse to throw a Caravaggio around If that had taken any longer to load, I might have died. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 236	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:20:30 - [255] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Interestingly, while ignoring Falcon's (and thus CCP's) view in that very thread you stated you were not against eliminating high sec ganking - just altering the mechanics slightly. Now one month later and you want war decs out of High Sec. Lies upon lies. Huh? There is a place for high sec ganking, but not by -10s. Wardeccs are kinda useless atm and if they can't be fixed to stop curbstomping new/casual players, then ya, chuck em. Ditto for theft. Veers Belvar wrote: Roll Because the game would absolutely collapse if highsec was for PvE, and low/null was for PvP. I mean without suicide ganking/awoxxing/wardeccs/scamming/theft Eve would absolute collapse. Shocked Stop back tracking and be honest - firstly with yourself. Game would survive if all ganking gone, doesn't mean the best thing to do is get rid of it. Use brain please. As for CCP Falcon, I am fine with risk/reward. But given ganking highsec needs a big buff and null/whs need a huge nerf. Dump people deserved to get ganked. But empty ships should not be getting ganked. need eff punishments on -10s. Busy playing, so short response. "EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe." CCP don't say you should be safe when empty, CCP say you are never safe, no matter what you are in or where you go. You can keep telling me to use my brain in a poor attempt at asserting intellectual dominance, it does not change the fact the way you put forward your position then argue a different position is inherently dishonest. That you can't see your own logical fallacies does not make me a poor thinker. It reflects on you.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 236	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:22:21 - [256] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: He can't be honest with himself, narcissists do not have the capacity. Keep trying trollboy. Veers Belvar: Please refrain from name calling we are trying to keep this discussion civil. Just because others see you in a different light than you see yourself does not make them trolls, or boys.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:23:37 - [257] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: He can't be honest with himself, narcissists do not have the capacity. Keep trying trollboy. Veers Belvar: Please refrain from name calling we are trying to keep this discussion civil. Just because others see you in a different light than you see yourself does not make them trolls, or boys. Because calling someone a narcissist isn't name calling. If you want to call out name calling - be consist. Don't play ISD if you are bad at it. Edit - and CCP Falcon specifically referenced putting your eggs in 1 basket. Not empty ships.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10600	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:28:18 - [258] - Quote While I am a boy, calling him a narcissist is not an insult, it's an observation. An acute one, I believe. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 237	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:29:22 - [259] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: He can't be honest with himself, narcissists do not have the capacity. Keep trying trollboy. Veers Belvar: Please refrain from name calling we are trying to keep this discussion civil. Just because others see you in a different light than you see yourself does not make them trolls, or boys. Because calling someone a narcissist isn't name calling. If you want to call out name calling - be consist. Don't play ISD if you are bad at it. Edit - and CCP Falcon specifically referenced putting your eggs in 1 basket. Not empty ships. 1. I am not playing iSD so I can not be bad at it. 2. He didn't call you a narcissist. He presented a sentence where the reader could come to their own conclusion being lead by him with out him directly saying it. 3. CCP Falcon was not talking about putting eggs in one basket in the second quote he was talking about what is fundamentally Eve. Here it goes again please stop avoiding it. CCP Falcon wrote: EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe. No eggs, no baskets, no safety, anywhere.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5856	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:29:41 - [260] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: much popularity is due to highsec PvE lolwut? Are you high? The PVE in EVE is some of the most generic, bland, predictable and repetitive crap in gaming ever. It's like that for a reason, EVE is a PVP-centric game. That's what keeps the best players playing, the ones who actually own, hold, and/or control space, be it high sec, low sec, null, or wormhole. If you don't PVP, then you contribute nothing to the game, you are part of nothing in the game, and you accumulate nothing but wealth in the game. This makes you, and your opinions of the game, irrelevant in every capacity. You might be playing it, but you aren't part of it. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:30:44 - [261] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: While I am a boy, calling him a narcissist is not an insult, it's an observation. An acute one, I believe. As is calling you a troll and delusional to boot.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 237	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:31:56 - [262] - Quote EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5856	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:31:59 - [263] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: While I am a boy, calling him a narcissist is not an insult, it's an observation. An acute one, I believe. As is calling you a troll and delusional to boot. Nope, not until you prove it. Until then, it's a personal attack. Grow up. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:33:31 - [264] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: While I am a boy, calling him a narcissist is not an insult, it's an observation. An acute one, I believe. As is calling you a troll and delusional to boot. Nope, not until you prove it. Until then, it's a personal attack. Grow up. The better course is to stop all the name calling and then nothing needs to be proved. Unlikely Kauros will agree to that.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10601	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:37:34 - [265] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: While I am a boy, calling him a narcissist is not an insult, it's an observation. An acute one, I believe. As is calling you a troll and delusional to boot. A narcissist often relies on the tactic of accusing others of having flaws he himself possesses. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5859	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:38:26 - [266] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: While I am a boy, calling him a narcissist is not an insult, it's an observation. An acute one, I believe. As is calling you a troll and delusional to boot. Nope, not until you prove it. Until then, it's a personal attack. Grow up. The better course is to stop all the name calling and then nothing needs to be proved. Unlikely Kauros will agree to that. First of all, 'personal attack' and 'accurate description' are mutually exclusive. Secondly, how the hell did you manage to spell Kaarous' name wrong with it written right there in the post you were quoting? You're on these forums all the time posting the most arrogant, narcissistic tripe I've ever seen from anyone, even more than James 315. At least when he posts, people are entertained. All your drivel does is give me diarrhea. Your opinions about EVE PVP are so far against the grain, so far against the nature of the game, that we have determined you have no interest in the game as it was intended, and as it has developed, for more than a decade. You can bet your bottom dollar, and make a million back easily, if you were to bet that CCP think you're as much of a moron regarding EVE as we do. The difference is, they need to be professional on the forums and maintain an air of civility. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2527	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:38:56 - [267] - Quote Hmmm.... When Veers started posting his threads/posts were more entertaining than typical Dinsdale/Gevlon/Infinity Ziona posts, as where the responses that he managed to provoke. But now the overall level of quality has gone down quite a bit, deteriorating to the usual poo slinging that dominates these forums. Disappointing.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 237	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:42:06 - [268] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: While I am a boy, calling him a narcissist is not an insult, it's an observation. An acute one, I believe. As is calling you a troll and delusional to boot. Nope, not until you prove it. Until then, it's a personal attack. Grow up. The better course is to stop all the name calling and then nothing needs to be proved. Unlikely Kauros will agree to that. Your posts are becoming a little formulaic. Step 1. Moral/Intellectual High Ground Claim Step 2. Undermine my own moral high ground by implying others are worse. Sometimes you switch the order, sometimes you include tangents or perceived links to other things that we can see are unrelated. The best bit is you don't seem to understand that you do it.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:42:35 - [269] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: While I am a boy, calling him a narcissist is not an insult, it's an observation. An acute one, I believe. As is calling you a troll and delusional to boot. Nope, not until you prove it. Until then, it's a personal attack. Grow up. The better course is to stop all the name calling and then nothing needs to be proved. Unlikely Kauros will agree to that. First of all, 'personal attack' and 'accurate description' are mutually exclusive. Secondly, how the hell did you manage to spell Kaarous' name wrong with it written right there in the post you were quoting? You're on these forums all the time posting the most arrogant, narcissistic tripe I've ever seen from anyone, even more than James 315. At least when he posts, people are entertained. All your drivel does is give me diarrhea. Your opinions about EVE PVP are so far against the grain, so far against the nature of the game, that we have determined you have no interest in the game as it was intended, and as it has developed, for more than a decade. You can bet your bottom dollar, and make a million back easily, if you were to bet that CCP think you're as much of a moron regarding EVE as we do. The difference is, they need to be professional on the forums and maintain an air of civility. No time for your stupidity Remmie...suffice to say when awoxxing goes that's a pretty strong indication they agree with me and not with you. Not interested in repsonding to the rest of your trolling - try harder.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:43:56 - [270] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: While I am a boy, calling him a narcissist is not an insult, it's an observation. An acute one, I believe. As is calling you a troll and delusional to boot. Nope, not until you prove it. Until then, it's a personal attack. Grow up. The better course is to stop all the name calling and then nothing needs to be proved. Unlikely Kauros will agree to that. Your posts are becoming a little formulaic. Step 1. Moral/Intellectual High Ground Claim Step 2. Undermine my own moral high ground by implying others are worse. Sometimes you switch the order, sometimes you include tangents or perceived links to other things that we can see are unrelated. The best bit is you don't seem to understand that you do it. Higher - not high.

Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10601	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:45:06 - [271] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Higher - not high. No, you're definitely high again. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 237	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:45:25 - [272] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: No time for your stupidity Remmie...suffice to say when awoxxing goes that's a pretty strong indication they exist with me and not with you. Not interested in repsonding to the rest of your trolling - try harder. They are not with you. You can think they are. But they are not. They even say the opposite of what you want. Here it goes again this is what CCP say about Eve: CCP Falcon wrote: EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5864	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:45:56 - [273] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Higher - not high. Maybe just stop taking the ganj altogether so your brains have a chance to grow back. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10604	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:46:58 - [274] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Higher - not high. Maybe just stop taking the ganj altogether so your brains have a chance to grow back. Seriously, mon. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:48:19 - [275] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: No time for your stupidity Remmie...suffice to say when awoxxing goes that's a pretty strong indication they exist with me and not with you. Not interested in repsonding to the rest of your trolling - try harder. They are not with you. You can think they are. But they are not. They even say the opposite of what you want. Here it goes again this is what CCP say about Eve: CCP Falcon wrote: EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe. So why is awoxxing going? Why is tear collecting on coms frowned upon? And why has concord been buffed and ganking nerfed? Focus on facts, not opinions. Buffing freighters was a fact, etc....
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5864	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:54:29 - [276] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: No time for your stupidity Remmie...suffice to say when awoxxing goes that's a pretty strong indication they exist with me and not with you. Not interested in repsonding to the rest of your trolling - try harder. They are not with you. You can think they are. But they are not. They even say the opposite of what you want. Here it goes again this is what CCP say about Eve: CCP Falcon wrote: EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe. So why is awoxxing going? Why is tear collecting on coms frowned upon? And why has concord been buffed and ganking nerfed? Focus on facts, not opinions. Buffing freighters was a fact, etc.... This is the same reasoning as saying, "oh they removed Thimerasol from vaccines so it MUST be dangerous". Even when they explicitly state that's not why it was done. You're visiting CCP's intentions without regard to their explicitly stated intentions, which demonstrates you to be a moron. Hence why calling you a moron is an accurate description, and not a personal attack. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 239	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:01:12 - [277] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: So why is awoxxing going? Why is tear collecting on coms frowned upon? And why has concord been buffed and ganking nerfed? Focus on facts, not opinions. Buffing freighters was a fact, etc.... Awoxing is going because Goons asked for it go. Tear collecting is taking an in game action and turning it into a real life humiliation. The last two occurred before you started playing and you only know about cause you tried to argue that ganking is way more common now that it ever has been. If CCP say space should never be 100% safe then it won't be. That is as factual as you can get in eve Online. Veers Belvar wrote: Focus on facts not opinions, nice disparaging cliche there there it goes the unfounded claim of the intellectual high ground coupled with the disparaging of the opponent. True to form Veers regurgitates some more.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:19:55 - [278] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: So why is awoxxing going? Why is tear collecting on coms frowned upon? And why has concord been buffed and ganking nerfed? Focus on facts, not opinions. Buffing freighters was a fact, etc.... Awoxing is going because Goons asked for it go. Tear collecting is taking an in game action and turning it into a real life humiliation. The last two occurred before you started playing and you only know about cause you tried to argue that ganking is way more common now that it ever has been. If CCP say space should never be 100% safe then it won't be. That is as factual as you can get in eve Online. Veers Belvar wrote: Focus on facts not opinions, nice disparaging cliche there there it goes the unfounded claim of the intellectual high ground coupled with the disparaging of the opponent. True to form Veers regurgitates some more. stop with cts, goons didnt kill awoxxing..ccp did. its bad for the game and discourages highsec corps, just like wardeccs, thefts, etc... I was here for both actions, btw, not sure what you are talking about. Agree with space not being 100% safe, never said there should be no suicide ganking, but would like crackdowns on -10. Would also like more danger in sov null, which is far too safe.....and needs nerfed rewards as a result.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10604	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:22:21 - [279] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Would also like more danger in sov null, which is far too safe.....and needs nerfed rewards as a result. People like you should pray that CCP never does rebalance this game based on risk vs reward. Because if they do, there will be no income above 20mil/hr left in highsec when they're done. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:23:38 - [280] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Would also like more danger in sov null, which is far too safe.....and needs nerfed rewards as a result. People like you should pray that CCP never does rebalance this game based on risk vs reward. Because if they do, there will be no income above 20mil/hr left in highsec when they're done. Fine with that - Dekklein would max out at 5 mil....would wipe out sov null - everyone back to highsec.

Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10604	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:27:12 - [281] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Would also like more danger in sov null, which is far too safe.....and needs nerfed rewards as a result. People like you should pray that CCP never does rebalance this game based on risk vs reward. Because if they do, there will be no income above 20mil/hr left in highsec when they're done. Fine with that - Dekklein would max out at 5 mil....would wipe out sov null - everyone back to highsec. Nope. Nullsec is only safe, in any way, as a result of player action. Meanwhile the only risk that exists in highsec is a result of player action. So like I said, if CCP ever does rebalance based on risk vs reward, highsec will finally be choked out like it deserves. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:33:57 - [282] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Would also like more danger in sov null, which is far too safe.....and needs nerfed rewards as a result. People like you should pray that CCP never does rebalance this game based on risk vs reward. Because if they do, there will be no income above 20mil/hr left in highsec when they're done. Fine with that - Dekklein would max out at 5 mil....would wipe out sov null - everyone back to highsec. Nope. Nullsec is only safe, in any way, as a result of player action. Meanwhile the only risk that exists in highsec is a result of player action. So like I said, if CCP ever does rebalance based on risk vs reward, highsec will finally be choked out like it deserves. Irrelevant - risk is risk and reward is reward. I would love a rebalance. Highsec is much riskier than sov null and deserves higher rewards.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10604	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:36:19 - [283] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Irrelevant - risk is risk and reward is reward. I would love a rebalance. Highsec is much riskier than sov null and deserves higher rewards. Highsec is far, far less risky according to CCP's own numbers. Destruction of ships is an order of magnitude higher in low and especially null. The only places in highsec that even make blips on the destruction map at all are the trade hubs and the chokepoints. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9001	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:03:33 - [284] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: It would make more sense to design the game so that everyone can get maximum enjoyment out of it. That is not possible, nor is it goal worthy. Nothing in the existence of humanity has pleased everyone - let alone given everyone maximum enjoyment. When you have a game whose popularity is entirely due to catering to a specific niche, throwing away that niche for "everyone" is a good way to make sure that no one enjoys it. I for one question why his enjoyment of the game is so dependent on the removal of everything the game design actually stands for. Why not just play a different game? Because some people are just plugged in wrong.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5864	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:13:08 - [285] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Would also like more danger in sov null, which is far too safe.....and needs nerfed rewards as a result. People like you should pray that CCP never does rebalance this game based on risk vs reward. Because if they do, there will be no income above 20mil/hr left in highsec when they're done. Fine with that - Dekklein would max out at 5 mil....would wipe out sov null - everyone back to highsec. Nope. Nullsec is only safe, in any way, as a result of player action. Meanwhile the only risk that exists in highsec is a result of player action. So like I said, if CCP ever does rebalance based on risk vs reward, highsec will finally be choked out like it deserves. Irrelevant - risk is risk and reward is reward. I would love a rebalance. Highsec is much riskier than sov null and deserves higher rewards. As per usual, no interest in the betterment of the game as a whole, just looking out for your own interests. It's literally no surprise to me, Veers, that you don't give one half a **** about anyone else's experience in this game but your own. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 268	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:15:47 - [286] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: As per usual, no interest in the betterment of the game as a whole, just looking out for your own interests. It's literally no surprise to me, Veers, that you don't give one half a **** about anyone else's experience in this game but your own. Try to think before you post. Given that risk/reward is an important metric, it makes no sense for sov null to be so lucrative given the lack of risk. The appropriate response is a major, major nerf.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 21036	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:24:09 - [287] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Try to think before you post. Given that risk/reward is an important metric, it makes no sense for sov null to be so lucrative given the lack of risk. The appropriate response is a major, major nerf. That those in sov null chose to manage the risk a certain way doesn't mean there is a lack of risk. That the risk has to be managed at all through coalitions and standings is a demonstration that the risk exists, not that sov null lacks risk. Those same approaches are needed to a lesser extent in lowsec and not at all in highsec. If nerfing is decided on the basis of risk, sov null would be the last place to be nerfed (NPC null to a lesser extent). Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5868	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:24:35 - [288] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: As per usual, no interest in the betterment of the game as a whole, just looking out for your own interests. It's literally no surprise to me, Veers, that you don't give one half a ** about anyone else's experience in this game but your own. Try to think before you post. Given that risk/reward is an important metric, it makes no sense for sov null to be so lucrative given the lack of risk. The appropriate response is a major, major nerf. Try to think at all, Beers, before you accuse anyone of not doing so. I know the risk of null sec, low sec, high sec, and wormhole. I've operated in a PVP capacity in ALL of them. You clearly lack the experience required to come to any conclusions about risk vs reward in areas of space you wouldn't survive alone in for more than about ten seconds. Tell me, Beers, if the risk of nul is so much lower than high, why are you still in high? No, my assessment of you is accurate, allow me to reiterate. It's literally no surprise to me, Veers, that you don't give one half a ** about anyone else's experience in this game but your own. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 269	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:30:26 - [289] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: As per usual, no interest in the betterment of the game as a whole, just looking out for your own interests. It's literally no surprise to me, Veers, that you don't give one half a ** about anyone else's experience in this game but your own. Try to think before you post. Given that risk/reward is an important metric, it makes no sense for sov null to be so lucrative given the lack of risk. The appropriate response is a major, major nerf. Try to think at all, Beers, before you accuse anyone of not doing so. I know the risk of null sec, low sec, high sec, and wormhole. I've operated in a PVP capacity in ALL of them. You clearly lack the experience required to come to any conclusions about risk vs reward in areas of space you wouldn't survive alone in for more than about ten seconds. Tell me, Beers, if the risk of nul is so much lower than high, why are you still in high? No, my assessment of you is accurate, allow me to reiterate. It's literally no surprise to me, Veers, that you don't give one half a ** about anyone else's experience in this game but your own. Sov null is the safest space in the game for PvE players. See many AFK ratters in high? People AFK carrier rat with no CONCORD. I'm not in null because I don't want to deal with the dysfunctional people running nullsec coalitions. I'm much happier with the "carebears" in high. Nothing to do with risk/reward - which is much better in sov null.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5868	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:33:37 - [290] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Sov null is the safest space in the game for PvE players. I'm not in null because I don't want to deal with the dysfunctional people running nullsec coalitions. I'm much happier with the "carebears" in high. Nothing to do with risk/reward - which is much better in sov null. Let's say I believe your excuse, which I have no reason to and therefore don't believe you at all, your assertion is that risk is too low in sov nul, so new question. Have you even spent enough time there to make an accurate assessment of that? Judging by your killboard, no, you have not, but I'll let you post your new excuse below and try to save face. For the record, I know some of the 'dysfunctional' people running null and lowsec alliances and corporations, so for your excuse to work, you're going to have to prove to us what makes them dysfunctional rather than the actual reason being that you're just afraid and antisocial yourself. Do you know what low, null, and wormhole have that highsec didn't for the longest time, before CODE came along? Community. And as it stands, in highsec, the only real communities there are MB and BU. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10605	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:35:12 - [291] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: See many AFK ratters in high? You see more afk everything in highsec. Granted the belt rats aren't really worth killing, but it translates well into missioning anyway. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 269	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:35:28 - [292] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Sov null is the safest space in the game for PvE players. I'm not in null because I don't want to deal with the dysfunctional people running nullsec coalitions. I'm much happier with the "carebears" in high. Nothing to do with risk/reward - which is much better in sov null. Let's say I believe your excuse, which I have no reason to and therefore don't believe you at all, your assertion is that risk is too low in sov nul, so new question. Have you even spent enough time there to make an accurate assessment of that? Judging by your killboard, no, you have not, but I'll let you post your new excuse below and try to save face. Not spent much time there...have read a lot of articles about the PvE, spoken to people, and checked out killboards. I also did research when I considered moving out there. PvE in a place like Deklein is extremely safe. As is PvE in the farmville renterlands in the east. These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10605	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:36:08 - [293] - Quote So yeah, any of you guys see any afk hauling in low and null? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5870	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:37:09 - [294] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Sov null is the safest space in the game for PvE players. I'm not in null because I don't want to deal with the dysfunctional people running nullsec coalitions. I'm much happier with the "carebears" in high. Nothing to do with risk/reward - which is much better in sov null. Let's say I believe your excuse, which I have no reason to and therefore don't believe you at all, your assertion is that risk is too low in sov nul, so new question. Have you even spent enough time there to make an accurate assessment of that? Judging by your killboard, no, you have not, but I'll let you post your new excuse below and try to save face. Not spent much time there...have read a lot of articles about the PvE, And I've read a lot of articles about astrophysics but that doesn't mean I know where to find a new earth-like planet. You need more experience before I believe your bullshit. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10606	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:38:22 - [295] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system. I can say exactly the same thing about incursions in highsec. Except that unlike your statement, it would be true. Incursions should be removed from highsec entirely. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 269	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:39:14 - [296] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system. I can say exactly the same thing about incursions in highsec. Except that unlike your statement, it would be true. Incursions should be removed from highsec entirely. belts and asteroids should be removed from sov null entirely.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10606	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:40:23 - [297] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system. I can say exactly the same thing about incursions in highsec. Except that unlike your statement, it would be true. Incursions should be removed from highsec entirely. belts and asteroids should be removed from sov null entirely. No they shouldn't. Sov null does not have CONCORD, or cyno restrictions. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5870	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:40:30 - [298] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system. I seem to remember a certain someone bragging about how much isk they'd piled up with minimal risk in highsec once... GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 269	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:42:39 - [299] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system. I seem to remember a certain someone bragging about how much isk they'd piled up with minimal risk in highsec once... At significant risk of course - from rats and from gankers, and never AFK. That's the difference between me and Goons, etc... I make my isk with real effort, and at significant risk.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 269	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:43:32 - [300] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system. I can say exactly the same thing about incursions in highsec. Except that unlike your statement, it would be true. Incursions should be removed from highsec entirely. belts and asteroids should be removed from sov null entirely. No they shouldn't. Sov null does not have CONCORD, or cyno restrictions. It's far too easy and safe to AFK rat and AFK mine...given risk/reward we should force everyone out of there. Highsec is a lot more dangerous for PvE.

Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10606	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:45:26 - [301] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Highsec is a lot more dangerous for PvE. No it's not. Far, far less people die in highsec than anywhere else. Once again, those are CCP's own stats from the destruction map they were nice enough to provide us. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 269	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:47:00 - [302] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Highsec is a lot more dangerous for PvE. No it's not. Far, far less people die in highsec than anywhere else. Once again, those are CCP's own stats from the destruction map they were nice enough to provide us. Yes, but FAR more people die doing PvE in highsec than doing PvE in sov null. As far as PvE goes, which is where the rewards are, highsec is much more dangerous. PvE in sov null is downright boring and safe...hence AFK miners and ratters.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5871	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:47:25 - [303] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system. I can say exactly the same thing about incursions in highsec. Except that unlike your statement, it would be true. Incursions should be removed from highsec entirely. belts and asteroids should be removed from sov null entirely. No they shouldn't. Sov null does not have CONCORD, or cyno restrictions. It's far too easy and safe to AFK rat and AFK mine...given risk/reward we should force everyone out of there. Highsec is a lot more dangerous for PvE. How dangerous any area of space is depends entirely on how the pilot mitigates the risks to them. That is made incredibly easy to do in highsec. People get ganked in highsec because they think they're 100% safe. Because they don't understand the risk. The people who survive understand the risk. That doesn't make highsec more risky than nullsec or low though. Veers, I know your whole argument revolved around you getting more out of highsec because you're just too afraid to venture elsewhere and/or actually mingle with people and make some friends in this MMO. Nothing that you've said, nothing at all, none of your excuses, give me reason to believe otherwise. Let us know when you grow a pair so we can consider your opinions relevant. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5871	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:48:47 - [304] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Highsec is a lot more dangerous for PvE. No it's not. Far, far less people die in highsec than anywhere else. Once again, those are CCP's own stats from the destruction map they were nice enough to provide us. Yes, but FAR more people die doing PvE in highsec than doing PvE in sov null. As far as PvE goes, which is where the rewards are, highsec is much more dangerous. PvE in sov null is downright boring and safe...hence AFK miners and ratters. You don't know much about statistical probability, do you. That's because there are more people doing PVE in highsec than there are doing PVE in low and null. OF COURSE more of them will be dying in high as a result, because there's more to begin with. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10606	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:49:29 - [305] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Yes, but FAR more people die doing PvE in highsec than doing PvE in sov null. Nope. About three times less die in highsec. Per capita anyway. Quote: PvE in sov null is downright boring and safe...hence AFK miners and ratters. Highsec is too safe, hence afk everything. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6770	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:55:41 - [306] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system. I seem to remember a certain someone bragging about how much isk they'd piled up with minimal risk in highsec once... You don't even need a counter like that remiel, not 20 minutes ago he was bragging about eexactly the thing he's complaining about here in another thread. Wev pointed, we've laughed, good God have we laughed (some of us May have even wet ourselves a little) but quite frankly veers will never have any meaningful impact on anything in eve and certainly wount be contributing anything of merit, I find his desperation for attention quite ugly, transparent and wearing at the momentum and I'm sure others feel tthe same. Can we just forget this halfbaked dinsdinsdale-de product of lust and let it fade back into whatever obscure hole it came from. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10607	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:57:24 - [307] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: These people pile up isk with minimal risk - and that shows a fundamentally broken risk/reward system. I seem to remember a certain someone bragging about how much isk they'd piled up with minimal risk in highsec once... You don't even need a counter like that remiel, not 20 minutes ago he was bragging about eexactly the thing he's complaining about here in another thread. Wev pointed, we've laughed, good God have we laughed (some of us May have even wet ourselves a little) but quite frankly veers will never have any meaningful impact on anything in eve and certainly wount be contributing anything of merit, I find his desperation for attention quite ugly, transparent and wearing at the momentum and I'm sure others feel tthe same. Can we just forget this halfbaked dinsdinsdale-de product of lust and let it fade back into whatever obscure hole it came from. I have to say, I laughed until I choked when he said that inflation has nothing to do with currency devaluation. That was priceless. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5871	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:58:19 - [308] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: veers will never have any meaningful impact on anything in eve and certainly wount be contributing anything of merit Which I've been trying to establish for a long time now so that people can just ignore him and move on. My last reply to him above was literally my last reply to him ever. I've got more important things to worry about that some irrelevant highsec carebear scrublord with a superiority complex. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jvpiter Jovelike 51	Posted - 2014.11.13 03:59:17 - [309] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Or, some of us, like me, enjoy the safety and security of highsec. Being able to run L4s and incursions with minimal risk, no dscan, and infallible CONCORD allies. Personally I find that a lot more rewarding than dealing with the irritating dangers of lowsec. Veers Belvar wrote: Sov null is the safest space in the game for PvE players. See many AFK ratters in high? People AFK carrier rat with no CONCORD. I'm not in null because I don't want to deal with the dysfunctional people running nullsec coalitions. I'm much happier with the "carebears" in high. Nothing to do with risk/reward - which is much better in sov null. Veers Belvar wrote: At significant risk of course - from rats and from gankers, and never AFK. That's the difference between me and Goons, etc... I make my isk with real effort, and at significant risk. My head is spinning with your myriad contradictions. First you say you PVE in hisec because it's safe and no risk. Then you say null is safe too. Well, if it is, why wouldn't you go there? Then you say hisec is not safe and risky. How can a single person say completely different and contradictory things and expect people to take his arguments seriously? Please explain.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 269	Posted - 2014.11.13 04:12:50 - [310] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Or, some of us, like me, enjoy the safety and security of highsec. Being able to run L4s and incursions with minimal risk, no dscan, and infallible CONCORD allies. Personally I find that a lot more rewarding than dealing with the irritating dangers of lowsec. Veers Belvar wrote: Sov null is the safest space in the game for PvE players. See many AFK ratters in high? People AFK carrier rat with no CONCORD. I'm not in null because I don't want to deal with the dysfunctional people running nullsec coalitions. I'm much happier with the "carebears" in high. Nothing to do with risk/reward - which is much better in sov null. Veers Belvar wrote: At significant risk of course - from rats and from gankers, and never AFK. That's the difference between me and Goons, etc... I make my isk with real effort, and at significant risk. My head is spinning with your myriad contradictions. First you say you PVE in hisec because it's safe and no risk. Then you say null is safe too. Well, if it is, why wouldn't you go there? Then you say hisec is not safe and risky. How can a single person say completely different and contradictory things and expect people to take his arguments seriously? Please explain. Highsec has safety from CONCORD...but enough risk from rats and gankers that you need to be at keyboard. Sov null should have tremendous risk, but due to player alliances has essentially none...which leads to AFK play. I don't go to null because of the socially dysfunctional people running the place. To recap, since you are finding this hard - I enjoy the protection from ganking in highsec, but also the risk of rats and gankers. Sov null has essentially no risk, and inflated rewards. Clear now?

Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 269	Posted - 2014.11.13 04:13:39 - [311] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: veers will never have any meaningful impact on anything in eve and certainly wount be contributing anything of merit Which I've been trying to establish for a long time now so that people can just ignore him and move on. My last reply to him above was literally my last reply to him ever. I've got more important things to worry about that some irrelevant highsec carebear scrublord with a superiority complex. Excellent! The stupidity was harming my eardrums...I look forward to never hearing from you again.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5871	Posted - 2014.11.13 04:18:56 - [312] - Quote Everyone that responds to Veers is giving him relevance he hasn't earned, so I'm going to play a little game. When Christmas comes, I'm going to be going on a 50 billion isk Santa trip around new Eden delivering presents to a bunch of people on the forums, both people I like and don't like. Anyone I see replying to Veers from this post on gets crossed off my list. Maybe I'll contract you some coal in Jita. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 270	Posted - 2014.11.13 04:22:33 - [313] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Everyone that responds to Veers is giving him relevance he hasn't earned, so I'm going to play a little game. When Christmas comes, I'm going to be going on a 50 billion isk Santa trip around new Eden delivering presents to a bunch of people on the forums, both people I like and don't like. Anyone I see replying to Veers from this post on gets crossed off my list. Maybe I'll contract you some coal in Jita. Great. and if you could get Kauros, Ralphie, Jenn, Tengu, and the rest of the griefer troll folks to stop as well, that would be great. Hearing from the same suicide gank trolls over and over gets a bit boring...not to mention their general cluelessness about the game.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5871	Posted - 2014.11.13 04:39:57 - [314] - Quote So I'm about to go balls deep into a capital tower op in lowsec in my Ishkur leading a small frigate wing in what is possible going to be one hell of a **** fight. Way more fun than PVE since nothing our enemy is going to do is predictable. Beats the hell out of incursion running, especially in high sec. Killed a Chimera in the Ishkur earlier today too, you don't get to do that in high sec. It's been a fun thread (cough) but I'm afraid I have to bid you all adieu. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 814	Posted - 2014.11.13 05:11:18 - [315] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Ocih wrote: rubbish I lived in Solitude low sec for the first 8 months of EVE. There is no 'empty low sec'. This is a lie. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=postmessage&t=384372&f=258&q=5202697 Notice the systems lela and keri. Their are plenty of low sec systems with fewer than 20 jump in per 24 hours, tha'ts pretty empty. And even if it's not empty, again, low sec pve is done in deadspace, it's easy to evade people trying to kill you. High Sec income can't compete with the 500 mil per hour a guy who can fly a carrier can make. I lived my 1st year in high sec listening to people like you lie to me about EVE. After faction warfare came out i joined, learned the ropes, and learned that low sec only requires an ounce more effort to be pretty safe to live in. I don't really care if high sec people learn this or not, I'm just correcting an untruth that I suffered from, that made me miss a whole YEAR of fun and loot because dumb but well meaning people were risk averse. This is why now i take new players with my to low to show them how not scary it is. Quote: There is roamed low sec and camped low sec. Roamed low sec has restricted PvE opportunity cycles and those cycles don't compete with high sec income. The only way low sec is more lucrative than high sec is if you have undisputed PvE because it's all a farm game. Low sec stations are still an alternative for making capital parts if you have no/ refuse to affiliate yourself with Null Sov entities. It could have been a haven for introduction PI but 30% and up tax sunk that ship long ago. Low sec is better for solo individual isk making that high sec or null sec or wormhole space (you need an organization in wormhole space to pull out better isk per hour than you can solo in low sec). As i told another guy in this thread, I'm not making this stuff up. Or this. Or this either. I don't know of a solo pve activity in high sec or null or wormhole space (with the exception of solo Dreads in c5 wormholes, which I have never done) that pays better than 200 mil per hour sustainably purely solo. ALL of the pve activities I listed above do that (because I do them depending on my mood, I have 3 carriers in adjacent systems for lvl 5s, 2 toons in 2 different militias and a naga + stabber fleet issue in a low sec sisters of EVE station). And with the exception of lvl 5s, the things i do to make isk in low require CHEAP low sp ships. I'll bet you any amount you want Ocih that you've never even tried some of the things I've linked, yet here you are telling people "don't even try". Perhaps the underling motivation is the same as the old saying of "misery loves company", but other than that, i can't figure out why folks like you believe what you do. I'm serious, try it if you don't believe me. find the right area of low sec, get you a naga and see what you can do. GL selling LOLSec. Lets keep it real, Every low sec gate you jump through doubles your ISK, triple for .1 sec API verified..
Jvpiter Jovelike 53	Posted - 2014.11.13 05:58:55 - [316] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Highsec has safety from CONCORD...but enough risk from rats and gankers that you need to be at keyboard. Sov null should have tremendous risk, but due to player alliances has essentially none...which leads to AFK play. I don't go to null because of the socially dysfunctional people running the place. You certainly are manufacturing "facts" here. PVE in null is not AFK play. It depends on what alliance and what null system, under which sovereignty umbrella, you are in. You are making gross generalizations about an area of space which you admittedly have never operated in, for reasons that make no sense. Socially dysfunctional people? These socially dysfunctional people inspire the most visible player-driven publicity that EVE has. You won't find any articles about Veers surviving incursion rats. You will find plenty of buzz about massive battles in null and the criminal content generated there. Quote: To recap, since you are finding this hard - I enjoy the protection from ganking in highsec, but also the risk of rats and gankers. Sov null has essentially no risk, and inflated rewards. Clear now? ) You enjoy the free protection from gankers but gankers are a threat. ) You don't like people AFKing in null but it's a terrible crime that you can't go AFK yourself. *) The rats in WH and null are insanely tough, to my low SP pilots, but apparently tough rats in hisec is a problem CCP needs to fix. Was your post meant to clear up your contradictions? Seems as if these contradictions are breeding and multiplying!
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 272	Posted - 2014.11.13 06:07:48 - [317] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Highsec has safety from CONCORD...but enough risk from rats and gankers that you need to be at keyboard. Sov null should have tremendous risk, but due to player alliances has essentially none...which leads to AFK play. I don't go to null because of the socially dysfunctional people running the place. You certainly are manufacturing "facts" here. PVE in null is not AFK play. It depends on what alliance and what null system, under which sovereignty umbrella, you are in. You are making gross generalizations about an area of space which you admittedly have never operated in, for reasons that make no sense. Socially dysfunctional people? These socially dysfunctional people inspire the most visible player-driven publicity that EVE has. You won't find any articles about Veers surviving incursion rats. You will find plenty of buzz about massive battles in null and the criminal content generated there. Quote: To recap, since you are finding this hard - I enjoy the protection from ganking in highsec, but also the risk of rats and gankers. Sov null has essentially no risk, and inflated rewards. Clear now? ) You enjoy the free protection from gankers but gankers are a threat. ) You don't like people AFKing in null but it's a terrible crime that you can't go AFK yourself. *) The rats in WH and null are insanely tough, to my low SP pilots, but apparently tough rats in hisec is a problem CCP needs to fix. Was your post meant to clear up your contradictions? Seems as if these contradictions are breeding and multiplying! Vast majority of PvE in sov null is done afk....ratting and mining lend themselves to it. I could do without the nullsec drama, the backstabbing, the petty arguments, the awoxxing... that whole area of space has no use to me. If they enjoy it, then keep at it. I'm much happier in highsec. I do enjoy a police force that vaporizes gankers in highsec...my job is to survive for the 20 secs til the police show...that takes skill. In many parts of sov null there are no gankers or hostiles period...there is no skill involved...everyone is doing PvE AFK and living to tell the tale. I think that it should be impossible to make isk while afk. I am fine with afk travel being safe in highsec...but no PvE should be doable AFK. My incursions cannot be done afk, nullsec PvE can. I actually think highsec could use tougher rats and higher rewards. Nullsec needs rats that can destroy AFK carriers...the current ones are useless against caps. Anything else?
Kaely Tanniss Aurora Novae Aetatis 61	Posted - 2014.11.13 06:47:25 - [318] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Everyone that responds to Veers is giving him relevance he hasn't earned, so I'm going to play a little game. When Christmas comes, I'm going to be going on a 50 billion isk Santa trip around new Eden delivering presents to a bunch of people on the forums, both people I like and don't like. Anyone I see replying to Veers from this post on gets crossed off my list. Maybe I'll contract you some coal in Jita. Wow...that's going to be super tough... If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Jvpiter Jovelike 54	Posted - 2014.11.13 06:54:17 - [319] - Quote In any rational discussion, you can't just say whatever you want and expect it to be treated as a fact. You don't seem to ever step up to meet your burden of proof. Your argument: ) Hisec has more people than any other sec <-- never presented any data. Also, I said people, not alts. ) Surviving 20 seconds against a gank is hard <-- this is not even true ) Rats in hisec are hard <-- it's a game. If you think ratting in hisec is hard, then go into F&I and start a thread ) All PVE in null is AFK <-- not true from my experience. You never presented any data ) Income in null is higher than in hisec <-- never presented any data ) People in nullsec are dysfunctional <-- this is not even true. You never presented any data. We both know you actually don't know any of these people *) More PVE deaths occur in hisec but anywhere else <-- of course it does, hisec has more people. You also never presented any data
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 243	Posted - 2014.11.13 07:00:36 - [320] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: In any rational discussion, you can't just say whatever you want and expect it to be treated as a fact. You don't seem to ever step up to meet your burden of proof. Your argument: ) Hisec has more people than any other sec <-- never presented any data. Also, I said people, not alts. ) Surviving 20 seconds against a gank is hard <-- this is not even true ) Rats in hisec are hard <-- it's a game. If you think ratting in hisec is hard, then go into F&I and start a thread ) All PVE in null is AFK <-- not true from my experience. You never presented any data ) Income in null is higher than in hisec <-- never presented any data ) People in nullsec are dysfunctional <-- this is not even true. You never presented any data. We both know you actually don't know any of these people *) More PVE deaths occur in hisec but anywhere else <-- of course it does, hisec has more people. You also never presented any data You are missing one valid point Jvpiter. This is not a rational discussion.

Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 272	Posted - 2014.11.13 07:01:36 - [321] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: In any rational discussion, you can't just say whatever you want and expect it to be treated as a fact. You don't seem to ever step up to meet your burden of proof. Your argument: ) Hisec has more people than any other sec <-- never presented any data. Also, I said people, not alts. ) Surviving 20 seconds against a gank is hard <-- this is not even true ) Rats in hisec are hard <-- it's a game. If you think ratting in hisec is hard, then go into F&I and start a thread ) All PVE in null is AFK <-- not true from my experience. You never presented any data ) Income in null is higher than in hisec <-- never presented any data ) People in nullsec are dysfunctional <-- this is not even true. You never presented any data. We both know you actually don't know any of these people *) More PVE deaths occur in hisec but anywhere else <-- of course it does, hisec has more people. You also never presented any data Blah blah blah - data - blah blah blah. Feel free to start the Pew Polling institute for Eve. No hard data exists. Thankfully we have logic and common sense...and as usual all of my points are correct. Do you have any actual arguments, or do you just want to scream DATA and preclude any fruitful discussion?
Carmen Electra The Scope Gallente Federation 12926	Posted - 2014.11.13 07:17:03 - [322] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: You are missing one valid point Jvpiter. This is not a rational discussion. Confirming that GD causes cancer. Bacon makes us stronger
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 243	Posted - 2014.11.13 07:31:21 - [323] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Blah blah blah - data - blah blah blah. Feel free to start the Pew Polling institute for Eve. No hard data exists. Thankfully we have logic and common sense...and as usual all of my points are correct. Do you have any actual arguments, or do you just want to scream DATA and preclude any fruitful discussion? You preclude any discussion by stating your position is correct all the time. Keep up your display of narcissism as you make the rest of us look intelligent and rational.
Kaely Tanniss Aurora Novae Aetatis 62	Posted - 2014.11.13 07:31:35 - [324] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Jvpiter wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Or, some of us, like me, enjoy the safety and security of highsec. Being able to run L4s and incursions with minimal risk, no dscan, and infallible CONCORD allies. Personally I find that a lot more rewarding than dealing with the irritating dangers of lowsec. Veers Belvar wrote: Sov null is the safest space in the game for PvE players. See many AFK ratters in high? People AFK carrier rat with no CONCORD. I'm not in null because I don't want to deal with the dysfunctional people running nullsec coalitions. I'm much happier with the "carebears" in high. Nothing to do with risk/reward - which is much better in sov null. Veers Belvar wrote: At significant risk of course - from rats and from gankers, and never AFK. That's the difference between me and Goons, etc... I make my isk with real effort, and at significant risk. My head is spinning with your myriad contradictions. First you say you PVE in hisec because it's safe and no risk. Then you say null is safe too. Well, if it is, why wouldn't you go there? Then you say hisec is not safe and risky. How can a single person say completely different and contradictory things and expect people to take his arguments seriously? Please explain. Highsec has safety from CONCORD...but enough risk from rats and gankers that you need to be at keyboard. Sov null should have tremendous risk, but due to player alliances has essentially none...which leads to AFK play. I don't go to null because of the socially dysfunctional people running the place. To recap, since you are finding this hard - I enjoy the protection from ganking in highsec, but also the risk of rats and gankers. Sov null has essentially no risk, and inflated rewards. Clear now? You don't go to null because you're a coward..plain and simple. If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Jvpiter Jovelike 59	Posted - 2014.11.13 07:34:29 - [325] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Blah blah blah - data - blah blah blah. Feel free to start the Pew Polling institute for Eve. No hard data exists. Thankfully we have logic and common sense...and as usual all of my points are correct. Do you have any actual arguments, or do you just want to scream DATA and preclude any fruitful discussion? I do have actual arguments. ) Awoxing is not the massive problem that yourself and some members of CSM are making it out to be. The data we do have, which is sufficient, shows it neither to be a common occurrence, nor a demotivator for hisec players to join player corps. ) You can survive 20 seconds against gankers, given the ridiculous EHP your fits are sporting. I think you can survive much longer, i.e. minutes, so CONCORD response times should be revisited. ) Move all profitable ores to lowsec or lower. This has already the scheme implemented for exploration sites, since exploration rewards in hisec is mice nuts. Leave some minimal ore belts in rookie systems. ) Same as above for incursion sites. ) Reduce L4 payout or move L4 to low. ) The above 3 suggestions will diversify EVE population between high (trading?) and low (rewards of PVE) ) Revamp ratting in null to eliminate the possibility of AFK ) Revamp the physical activity of mining to eliminate AFK. This would have the added benefit of reducing gank kills, and discouraging botters. The way to encourage players to interact with players is not reduce the overall risk. Reducing risk makes it less likely that players will need each other. Instead, you take the food and move it into a more dangerous place. People will have to learn how to swim in order to survive. I will not cover any opinions on NPC corps and wardecs because that is a much more complicated discussion.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4146	Posted - 2014.11.13 07:34:57 - [326] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Do you have any actual arguments, or do you just want to scream DATA and preclude any fruitful discussion? an argument consists of one or more statements and a premise the argument is logically constructed in such a way that if the premise is true, the statements are also true beers veldspar just farts on a keyboard and clicks 'post'
Jvpiter Jovelike 60	Posted - 2014.11.13 07:49:10 - [327] - Quote I think he fell asleep. Quick, does anyone have a magic marker so that we can draw on his face?
Kaely Tanniss Aurora Novae Aetatis 64	Posted - 2014.11.13 07:57:40 - [328] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: I think he fell asleep. Quick, does anyone have a magic marker so that we can draw on his face? That made me really laugh and wake up my daughter :/ ...oh well...it was worth it If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Jvpiter Jovelike 61	Posted - 2014.11.13 08:04:36 - [329] - Quote We are neck and neck in Likes. This competition is ON. ß¦¦'ß¦É -¦ß¦ÿ-óß¦ù ß¦Åß¦ªß¦êß¦êß¦ªß¦¦ß¦ìGïà
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 244	Posted - 2014.11.13 08:07:05 - [330] - Quote There goes one each.

Lady Areola Fappington 2337	Posted - 2014.11.13 08:09:32 - [331] - Quote This thread is so awful, it literally gave me cancer. Seriously, I was reading it in doc's waiting room, and bamf, biopsy came back positive for basal-cell carcinoma. No worries though, they froze the ugly mole off right there. It isn't really hard, but I think there are customers that you can lose in a good way and there's customers that you can lose in a bad way. If people come in and fundamentally don't like EVE Online, then I think that might be a good way of losing customers. . -á--CCP Soundwave
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 752	Posted - 2014.11.13 09:30:58 - [332] - Quote Damn you Remiel. Damn you to Hek.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5876	Posted - 2014.11.13 11:05:05 - [333] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: Damn you Remiel. Damn you to Hek. I hear Hek can be a nice vacation spot for BU's like myself so, I don't consider it all that damning On a sidenote, there's no way in hell imma be able to come up with 50bil isk by Christmas. Just wanted to see how many people might be able to refrain from giving Tears Failvar any more relevance. On another note, those new polarised guns look like a buff to highsec ganking, so by Tears' own logic, CCP wants highsec to be dangerous. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6785	Posted - 2014.11.13 11:14:13 - [334] - Quote Carmen Electra wrote: Cancel Align NOW wrote: You are missing one valid point Jvpiter. This is not a rational discussion. Confirming that GD causes cancer. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Side effects of posting in General Discussion include, but are not limited to headache, trouble concentrating, memory problems, weakness, confusion, hallucinations, fainting, seizure, shallow breathing or breathing that stops, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of appetite, feeling unsteady, loss of coordination, very stiff (rigid) muscles, high fever, sweating, fast or uneven heartbeats, tremors, overactive reflexes, severe skin reaction -- fever, sore throat, swelling in your face or tongue, burning in your eyes, skin pain, followed by a red or purple skin rash that spreads (especially in the face or upper body) and causes blistering and peeling, decreased sex drive, increased appetite, newfound affinity for rainbow-colored animals and death. If you experience any of these, please consult a doctor immeadiately. Do not post in General discussion if you are pregnant, plan on becoming pregnant, have gotten someone pregnant, know someone who is pregnant, have the ability to make someone pregnant, can spell the word pregnant, use the tern 'preggers' on a semi-daily basis, or have to look up the definition of 'pregnancy' because of this post. Those who are taking pretty much any medication should consult a doctor before reading General Discussion, as dangerous interactions may occur which may lead to loss of bladder or sphinctoral control. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
marVLs 672	Posted - 2014.11.13 11:17:07 - [335] - Quote Welcome to EVE, where the most lame gameplay style in history of games are common, srly gatecamping and station insta puff is terrible...
Lady Areola Fappington 2337	Posted - 2014.11.13 11:33:57 - [336] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: I hear Hek can be a nice vacation spot for BU's like myself so, I don't consider it all that damning On a sidenote, there's no way in hell imma be able to come up with 50bil isk by Christmas. Just wanted to see how many people might be able to refrain from giving Tears Failvar any more relevance. On another note, those new polarised guns look like a buff to highsec ganking, so by Tears' own logic, CCP wants highsec to be dangerous. Oh yes, those polarized guns do look wonderful. Expect to see plenty of them in ganks. Even if the price point is a smidge high, we shall make polarized gun gankfits a thing. It isn't really hard, but I think there are customers that you can lose in a good way and there's customers that you can lose in a bad way. If people come in and fundamentally don't like EVE Online, then I think that might be a good way of losing customers. . -á--CCP Soundwave
Chillshock Heavy Industries Inc. 0	Posted - 2014.11.13 11:36:07 - [337] - Quote Hah! Haven't played for about two years... and I see this is still the same stuff. Little backstory: When I started (that was before there were 5k players) I used to live in a lowsec system where me and my brother and a friend of mine would actually... rat, mine, pve when there were missions we liked. It was pretty cool. Sometimes one of those "old players" would move through the system and we did learn quickly to avoid meeting them in the expensive ships. :D As the amount of players increased it slowly morphed into one of these systems where there were ALWAYS gatecamps. Like all the time. Any time. And no - we were not good enough to break them. Back then there was no "jump to 0" - but we did create some "jump to gate and move 15 onward bookmarks" (anyone remember those lists being really valuable? :D) When reallife reduced the playtime we ended up not being able to compensate the losses. So that's what turned me into a carebear. Been doing that for ~6 years on and off. I'd love to pvp some (most of the time I just want to chill after work for an hour or so) - but there simply is no place for people roaming a bit. Even a three-person gang usually dies in organized gatecamps. And even if there are 1 or 2 coming through: It's the early end of the evening. So yes, I think gates should defend their travellers somewhat better. PvP in Lowsec would have to take place in the belts and sites then. With chances of seeing them comming - at least in local. Getting creds oriented high-sec-people into low sec would also have to include the chance of compensating the losses if "successfully" capturing loot / bounties. So... add roaming NPC officers that would wreck pure pvp setups. NPC that need to be hunted down, scanned, or located in a way that is similar to how players need to be scanned down... blurring the line between hunting NPC and hunting players... Would be my 2 cents. As a former low-sec, now carebear. I admit it. ;) Flame me about it. "Go back to high-sec" is a total worthless phrase, as that is what is happening all the time anyways. With ... well... everyone you talk to who "ventured into low sec to take a look".
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4147	Posted - 2014.11.13 12:17:38 - [338] - Quote marVLs wrote: and station insta puff is terrible... well. it would be, if it existed. it does not
Seven Koskanaiken The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 1366	Posted - 2014.11.13 12:32:27 - [339] - Quote Use mwd+cloak to get through gates. The mobile depot now makes this easy as pie and you can refit is any system now, meaning you never have to go through a gate un travel fit...ever. Improved Cloak in high, MWD and tank in mids, stabs and inertias in lows, ECM drones in drone bay. If your pve fitting is bulky or you need extra ammo add some cargo expanders to your travel fit. If slying small ships dscan gates on way out for smartbombers, either from nearby celestial, or dumping capacitor until warp stops within dscan range of the outgate. Check local for active criminals. Make perches for regularly used gates, on grid, off grid, insta undocks from stations etc etc. Find campers by use dotlan stats and map stats for losses. Open zkillboard for that system look at recent losses. Add obvious campers to watchlist and check notify when online, run a locator agent on an alt if you really pushing the boat out. Take a set of probes and use highsec-lowsec wormholes to get in and out. Don't start sites with people in already local. Keep in range from cans in hackers so you can insta cloak. Keep mobile depot deployed in combat sites, and never be at zero on warpin. Spam dscan whenever someone comes in to the moment they leave. Align out until they leave. If you see probes assume they have traded the bookmark to someone outside the system who can now insta warp to your site. Alternate dscan range between 14AU and 1AU to see people coming in. Be extra paranoia. Don't accept random fleet invites. Don't sit still uncloaked in a safe. Common sense stuff.
Luwc Confederation of Independent Contractors Swamphole 298	Posted - 2014.11.13 13:02:24 - [340] - Quote Open Starmap . Go to options . statistics. Kills last 24h , jumps last hour etc. Lesson learned :) Let me guess . tama or ammake ? http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10613	Posted - 2014.11.13 13:23:49 - [341] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: So I'm about to go balls deep into a capital tower op in lowsec in my Ishkur leading a small frigate wing in what is possible going to be one hell of a **** fight. Way more fun than PVE since nothing our enemy is going to do is predictable. Beats the hell out of incursion running, especially in high sec. Killed a Chimera in the Ishkur earlier today too, you don't get to do that in high sec. It's been a fun thread (cough) but I'm afraid I have to bid you all adieu. Seriously. I have gotten into the Ishkur myself thanks to joining Devils, and that ship is so very, very good. Best Assault Frigate by miles. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5878	Posted - 2014.11.13 13:39:29 - [342] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: So I'm about to go balls deep into a capital tower op in lowsec in my Ishkur leading a small frigate wing in what is possible going to be one hell of a **** fight. Way more fun than PVE since nothing our enemy is going to do is predictable. Beats the hell out of incursion running, especially in high sec. Killed a Chimera in the Ishkur earlier today too, you don't get to do that in high sec. It's been a fun thread (cough) but I'm afraid I have to bid you all adieu. Seriously. I have gotten into the Ishkur myself thanks to joining Devils, and that ship is so very, very good. Best Assault Frigate by miles. I disagree with best. Most versatile, yes, but what's actually best would depend on what you're doing with it. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6786	Posted - 2014.11.13 13:48:42 - [343] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Seriously. I have gotten into the Ishkur myself thanks to joining Devils, and that ship is so very, very good. Best Assault Frigate by miles. I disagree with best. Most versatile, yes, but what's actually best would depend on what you're doing with it. relevant "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5878	Posted - 2014.11.13 13:56:15 - [344] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Seriously. I have gotten into the Ishkur myself thanks to joining Devils, and that ship is so very, very good. Best Assault Frigate by miles. I disagree with best. Most versatile, yes, but what's actually best would depend on what you're doing with it. relevant ENYO!!! I named my cockatiel Enyo cuz I'm a nerd... I edited my post above btw with some further thoughts. I know it's an essay but it was on my mind so I just wrote it. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10613	Posted - 2014.11.13 14:23:10 - [345] - Quote I once had a cockatiel, we taught it to whistle the Mario Brothers and Tetris theme songs. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5880	Posted - 2014.11.13 15:24:13 - [346] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: I once had a cockatiel, we taught it to whistle the Mario Brothers and Tetris theme songs. Mine's a girl, girl cockatiel's will imitate but they are much less likely to. Enyo tweets and squawks from time to time, especially when she's demanding attention. But she'll sit on my shoulder and preen my beard while I play EVE. If she gets bored of that, she'll jump down and start exploring my desk. So I hide sunflower seeds around on it, under bits of paper and CDs and stuff, and she moves the stuff to get to it. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire 747	Posted - 2014.11.13 15:36:03 - [347] - Quote Tristans are pretty good and they look so innocent. Got an Orca because they thought me scrub "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Komodo Askold No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad 202	Posted - 2014.11.13 16:44:42 - [348] - Quote To the OP: Don't get depressed for being killed a few times! Learn from your mistakes and from advices, practice, don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and eventually you'll laugh at those gatecamps and you'll get those A-Types :) And if you really like being out there, consider migrating to "permanently" live in Lowsec and bring some friends (or make them there). Go for it, don't be depressed ;)
BoBoZoBo Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team 495	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:17:52 - [349] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: tl;dr. Not prepared to go to lowsec Goes to lowsec anyway. grr lowsec content. Win - End of thread. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 759	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:22:05 - [350] - Quote And yes, if you haven't guessed. Remiel... challenge accepted. Poasts I may have made prior to reading this thread notwithstanding. I shall refrain. I shall engage my SEP field at 150% effectiveness. I've actually echoed your sentiments in regards to this matter before, but by the grace of the Flying Spaghetti Monster... I just haven't been able to stop chasing that damned red dot. I could blame the booze, but that would be a weak excuse when we both know it's the enormous amount of WRONG that draws the attention and demands the response. Yes, I know it may very well go away if simply ignored, but restraining that urge to verbally stomp it into the ground like Homer Simpson in the episode with the Screamapillar is a herculean effort at times. I shall embrace the spirit of restraint and do what I can. I'll call it a win if I can make it 24 hours. I'll consider myself nearly as awesome as he does if I can make it a week. If I make it the distance I shall consider myself the incarnation of the god of restraint in mortal flesh.

J'mee Leggs Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 68	Posted - 2014.11.14 00:51:02 - [351] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: This means pvp players in low/null, and pve players in high. Greetings Mr. Belvar. I hope this missive finds you in good health and fortune. We here at RvB value input from all of our potential consumers and were thoroughly intrigued by your suggestion to remove pvp from hi sec altogether. I'm embarassed to admit that this idea, as simple and elegant as it is, simply never occured to us. Now many corps, when finding themselves in a situation such as this, would simply release a pre-written statement carefully formed to remain neutral in the face of what is sure to be a controversial issue when you decide to go forward with implementing it. RvB holds itself to a higher standard than most corps however. We firmly believe that the personal touch is what makes us the unique and successful organization we are. Indeed, we encourage all members of RvB, whether in the employ of the Glorious Red Federation or working for the perfectly adequate Blue Republic, to get out there and personally touch as many denizens of New Eden as possible on a daily basis. Why, with all the touching its a bit of a miracle we ever manage to get any work done at all. However, when we receive a potentially game changing suggestion, especially from someone as important as yourself, we make the time. We began by opening up a forum so all members could voice any opinions or concerns. We then formed a committee to take all of that raw data and collate it into a manageable set of bullet points that covered all of the foreseeable pros and cons of this suggestion as it relates to us. These bullet points were then discussed in a series of round table debates. After we felt we had gathered enough information to accurately represent our members' desires in this matter our upper management retired to the boardroom to decide what our official response would be. They returned not only with a counter proposal, but also an official finding to be recorded in alliance logs so that all future members could be appropriately enlightened. An interesting side note here is that both the counter proposal and the official finding were unanimously supported by RvB in its entirety, a very rare thing for any corporation, as I'm sure you can imagine. In light of all this it is with no small amount of pride that I, J'mee Leggs, on this day, in accordance with the responsibilities of my assigned role and on behalf of RvB as a whole, would like to kindly invite you to go stick your head in a trout. Furthermore, we have determined that you are the stupidest piece of excrement to ever extrude from the internet and deposit itself on these forums. Thank you for your support and as always, if you have any further questions or comments please feel free to contact us. Warmest regards, J'mee Leggs RvB Department of Public Relations (intern)
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 273	Posted - 2014.11.14 01:06:58 - [352] - Quote J'mee Leggs wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: This means pvp players in low/null, and pve players in high. Greetings Mr. Belvar. I hope this missive finds you in good health and fortune. We here at RvB value input from all of our potential consumers and were thoroughly intrigued by your suggestion to remove pvp from hi sec altogether. I'm embarassed to admit that this idea, as simple and elegant as it is, simply never occured to us. Now many corps, when finding themselves in a situation such as this, would simply release a pre-written statement carefully formed to remain neutral in the face of what is sure to be a controversial issue when you decide to go forward with implementing it. RvB holds itself to a higher standard than most corps however. We firmly believe that the personal touch is what makes us the unique and successful organization we are. Indeed, we encourage all members of RvB, whether in the employ of the Glorious Red Federation or working for the perfectly adequate Blue Republic, to get out there and personally touch as many denizens of New Eden as possible on a daily basis. Why, with all the touching its a bit of a miracle we ever manage to get any work done at all. However, when we receive a potentially game changing suggestion, especially from someone as important as yourself, we make the time. We began by opening up a forum so all members could voice any opinions or concerns. We then formed a committee to take all of that raw data and collate it into a manageable set of bullet points that covered all of the foreseeable pros and cons of this suggestion as it relates to us. These bullet points were then discussed in a series of round table debates. After we felt we had gathered enough information to accurately represent our members' desires in this matter our upper management retired to the boardroom to decide what our official response would be. They returned not only with a counter proposal, but also an official finding to be recorded in alliance logs so that all future members could be appropriately enlightened. An interesting side note here is that both the counter proposal and the official finding were unanimously supported by RvB in its entirety, a very rare thing for any corporation, as I'm sure you can imagine. In light of all this it is with no small amount of pride that I, J'mee Leggs, on this day, in accordance with the responsibilities of my assigned role and on behalf of RvB as a whole, would like to kindly invite you to go stick your head in a trout. Furthermore, we have determined that you are the stupidest piece of excrement to ever extrude from the internet and deposit itself on these forums. Thank you for your support and as always, if you have any further questions or comments please feel free to contact us. Warmest regards, J'mee Leggs RvB Department of Public Relations (intern) RvB doesn't like me????? Oh no....what's next? Will the grand Eve Uni not be my friend either???? Honestly I could care less what you guys think about me....I happen to believe that given the current awoxxing/wardeccs/theft mechanics highsec corps are essentially useless....but obviously you are entitled to disagree. I don't really have issues with your (consensual) PvP in highsec....and I'm more than happy for you to continue it unimpeded (though the awoxxing changes may crimp your play). I would probably take your analysis more seriously if I felt that the average RvB player was capable of reading through this thread and understanding the issues...but of course I do not....so please do carry on. Yours, Veers The True Savior of Highsec
J'mee Leggs Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 68	Posted - 2014.11.14 01:24:07 - [353] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: I would probably take your analysis more seriously if I felt that the average RvB player was capable of reading through this thread and understanding the issues...but of course I do not....so please do carry on. Let's see: We were smart enough to look at the blue donut and say no thanks but instead of sperging on the forums FIX IT CCP! we took existing game mechanics and created our own little corner of the sandbox to play in. Five years later and our numbers have only steadily increased - real evidence of player support as opposed to some nebulous "silent majority". Arguably the most active hi sec alliance in the game. And I can promise you we've helped more new players along than you and your silly little quixotic crusade for the lowest form of bottom feeder could ever dream of doing. Guess we'll just add RvB to the rapidly expanding list of things you are completely clueless about.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 273	Posted - 2014.11.14 01:28:26 - [354] - Quote J'mee Leggs wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: I would probably take your analysis more seriously if I felt that the average RvB player was capable of reading through this thread and understanding the issues...but of course I do not....so please do carry on. Let's see: We were smart enough to look at the blue donut and say no thanks but instead of sperging on the forums FIX IT CCP! we took existing game mechanics and created our own little corner of the sandbox to play in. Five years later and our numbers have only steadily increased - real evidence of player support as opposed to some nebulous "silent majority". Arguably the most active hi sec corp in the game. And I can promise you we've helped more new players along than you and your silly little quixotic crusade for the lowest form of bottom feeder could ever dream of doing. Guess we'll just add RvB to the rapidly expanding list of things you are completely clueless about. You would be better off in the blue donut than in lame T1 frig battles around Jita. Brave Newbies (another group I have little regard for) at least realized how pointless corporations in highsec are and moved to nullsec....now they weren't competent enough to take down Provibloc...but at least they get an A for effort. The great RvB spends their time engaging in T1 frigs around Jita....WOW....CAN I HOPE TO BE LIKE YOU SOMEDAY?????? And your last sentence isn't even coherent.... "and I can promise you we've helped more new players along than you and your silly little quixotic crusade for the lowest form of bottom feeder could ever dream of doing." Huh? That's the problem with arguing with RvB...they can't even understand the issues sufficiently to make a point, much less express themselves in coherent English. It's like trying to debate a musty shoebox....all you get is a cough and a headache.... So move along...and go kill a T1 frig in Jita for me. Veers
ggodhsup Raider corp 13	Posted - 2014.11.14 01:40:15 - [355] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: J'mee Leggs wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: This means pvp players in low/null, and pve players in high. Greetings Mr. Belvar. I hope this missive finds you in good health and fortune. We here at RvB value input from all of our potential consumers and were thoroughly intrigued by your suggestion to remove pvp from hi sec altogether. I'm embarassed to admit that this idea, as simple and elegant as it is, simply never occured to us. Now many corps, when finding themselves in a situation such as this, would simply release a pre-written statement carefully formed to remain neutral in the face of what is sure to be a controversial issue when you decide to go forward with implementing it. RvB holds itself to a higher standard than most corps however. We firmly believe that the personal touch is what makes us the unique and successful organization we are. Indeed, we encourage all members of RvB, whether in the employ of the Glorious Red Federation or working for the perfectly adequate Blue Republic, to get out there and personally touch as many denizens of New Eden as possible on a daily basis. Why, with all the touching its a bit of a miracle we ever manage to get any work done at all. However, when we receive a potentially game changing suggestion, especially from someone as important as yourself, we make the time. We began by opening up a forum so all members could voice any opinions or concerns. We then formed a committee to take all of that raw data and collate it into a manageable set of bullet points that covered all of the foreseeable pros and cons of this suggestion as it relates to us. These bullet points were then discussed in a series of round table debates. After we felt we had gathered enough information to accurately represent our members' desires in this matter our upper management retired to the boardroom to decide what our official response would be. They returned not only with a counter proposal, but also an official finding to be recorded in alliance logs so that all future members could be appropriately enlightened. An interesting side note here is that both the counter proposal and the official finding were unanimously supported by RvB in its entirety, a very rare thing for any corporation, as I'm sure you can imagine. In light of all this it is with no small amount of pride that I, J'mee Leggs, on this day, in accordance with the responsibilities of my assigned role and on behalf of RvB as a whole, would like to kindly invite you to go stick your head in a trout. Furthermore, we have determined that you are the stupidest piece of excrement to ever extrude from the internet and deposit itself on these forums. Thank you for your support and as always, if you have any further questions or comments please feel free to contact us. Warmest regards, J'mee Leggs RvB Department of Public Relations (intern) RvB doesn't like me????? Oh no....what's next? Will the grand Eve Uni not be my friend either???? Honestly I could care less what you guys think about me....I happen to believe that given the current awoxxing/wardeccs/theft mechanics highsec corps are essentially useless....but obviously you are entitled to disagree. I don't really have issues with your (consensual) PvP in highsec....and I'm more than happy for you to continue it unimpeded (though the awoxxing changes may crimp your play). I would probably take your analysis more seriously if I felt that the average RvB player was capable of reading through this thread and understanding the issues...but of course I do not....so please do carry on. Yours, Veers The True Savior of Highsec i saw veers and needed to say something.....veers alot of people dont like you....your like a troll....with good intentions.....which is like that christian guy that corners you at work.... just. plain. annoying.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 273	Posted - 2014.11.14 01:46:09 - [356] - Quote ggodhsup wrote: i saw veers and needed to say something.....veers alot of people dont like you....your like a troll....with good intentions.....which is like that christian guy that corners you at work.... just. plain. annoying. Do you know what the mature thing is to do when you find someone you don't like on the forums? Just ignore them. If you pay attention, it's always the other folks who start with the name calling/personal/attacks/flame wars. Obviously that's not going to deter me from advocating for a safer and more humane highsec...but I would definitely be in favor of a major forum crackdown on people who start with the name calling/personal attacking garbage. Don't get your hopes up though..... And the people who don't "like" me here are the 1% who get their thrills from making PvE highsec players rage and cry. Which is fine, if these people liked me, then I would be concerned.
Good Posting Reloaded My Real Mind 20	Posted - 2014.11.14 01:48:18 - [357] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: And the people who don't "like" me here are the 1% who get their thrills from making PvE highsec players rage and cry. Which is fine, if these people liked me, then I would be concerned. Well said.
ggodhsup Raider corp 13	Posted - 2014.11.14 01:53:18 - [358] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: ggodhsup wrote: i saw veers and needed to say something.....veers alot of people dont like you....your like a troll....with good intentions.....which is like that christian guy that corners you at work.... just. plain. annoying. Do you know what the mature thing is to do when you find someone you don't like on the forums? Just ignore them. If you pay attention, it's always the other folks who start with the name calling/personal/attacks/flame wars. Obviously that's not going to deter me from advocating for a safer and more humane highsec...but I would definitely be in favor of a major forum crackdown on people who start with the name calling/personal attacking garbage. Don't get your hopes up though..... And the people who don't "like" me here are the 1% who get their thrills from making PvE highsec players rage and cry. Which is fine, if these people liked me, then I would be concerned. veers.....maturity is not a discussion im willing to endure....with that.....if you want high-sec to be the rogue encampment from diablo 2 then you should probably move on..... oh yeah and your avatar is ugly.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 274	Posted - 2014.11.14 02:02:29 - [359] - Quote ggodhsup wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: ggodhsup wrote: i saw veers and needed to say something.....veers alot of people dont like you....your like a troll....with good intentions.....which is like that christian guy that corners you at work.... just. plain. annoying. Do you know what the mature thing is to do when you find someone you don't like on the forums? Just ignore them. If you pay attention, it's always the other folks who start with the name calling/personal/attacks/flame wars. Obviously that's not going to deter me from advocating for a safer and more humane highsec...but I would definitely be in favor of a major forum crackdown on people who start with the name calling/personal attacking garbage. Don't get your hopes up though..... And the people who don't "like" me here are the 1% who get their thrills from making PvE highsec players rage and cry. Which is fine, if these people liked me, then I would be concerned. veers.....maturity is not a discussion im willing to endure....with that.....if you want high-sec to be the rogue encampment from diablo 2 then you should probably move on..... oh yeah and your avatar is ugly. No clue what "maturity is not a discussion im willing to endure" means. There isn't much to discuss when you can't coherently express a thought in English (have you considered joining RvB?). I'm not looking to turn Eve into Diablo 2 - I would like to see the ability to bump industrial ships until downtime removed, and a real crackdown on -10s. I'd like a sufficiently beefed up CONCORD to deter all but high value crimes...and I'd like to see fewer empty ships and shuttles blown up for lolz. So no, I will be staying here and advocating for change, like the coming awoxx changes, not running away to a different game. And my avatar rocks - not that I care what you think. Anything else? Or can this painful back and forth end now?
ggodhsup Raider corp 13	Posted - 2014.11.14 02:12:46 - [360] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: ggodhsup wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: ggodhsup wrote: i saw veers and needed to say something.....veers alot of people dont like you....your like a troll....with good intentions.....which is like that christian guy that corners you at work.... just. plain. annoying. Do you know what the mature thing is to do when you find someone you don't like on the forums? Just ignore them. If you pay attention, it's always the other folks who start with the name calling/personal/attacks/flame wars. Obviously that's not going to deter me from advocating for a safer and more humane highsec...but I would definitely be in favor of a major forum crackdown on people who start with the name calling/personal attacking garbage. Don't get your hopes up though..... And the people who don't "like" me here are the 1% who get their thrills from making PvE highsec players rage and cry. Which is fine, if these people liked me, then I would be concerned. veers.....maturity is not a discussion im willing to endure....with that.....if you want high-sec to be the rogue encampment from diablo 2 then you should probably move on..... oh yeah and your avatar is ugly. No clue what "maturity is not a discussion im willing to endure" means. There isn't much to discuss when you can't coherently express a thought in English (have you considered joining RvB?). I'm not looking to turn Eve into Diablo 2 - I would like to see the ability to bump industrial ships until downtime removed, and a real crackdown on -10s. I'd like a sufficiently beefed up CONCORD to deter all but high value crimes...and I'd like to see fewer empty ships and shuttles blown up for lolz. So no, I will be staying here and advocating for change, like the coming awoxx changes, not running away to a different game. And my avatar rocks - not that I care what you think. Anything else? Or can this painful back and forth end now? plenty more.....im lurking in all your posts.

Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 275	Posted - 2014.11.14 02:21:36 - [361] - Quote ggodhsup wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Anything else? Or can this painful back and forth end now? plenty more.....im lurking in all your posts. ahhh....elite PvP at it's finest.... People have an inordinate fear of AFK cloakers... but you madam have taken it one step further...to wit, The AFK forum lurker. Now that will truly cast terror into the hearts of Eve players everywhere. GGWP
ggodhsup Raider corp 13	Posted - 2014.11.14 04:46:47 - [362] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: ahhh....elite PvP at it's finest.... what do you know about that?.....
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 275	Posted - 2014.11.14 05:23:55 - [363] - Quote ggodhsup wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: ahhh....elite PvP at it's finest.... what do you know about that?..... I often buy faction ammo...and carefully look for the lowest price within a reasonable travel distance.
ggodhsup Raider corp 13	Posted - 2014.11.14 05:31:34 - [364] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: ggodhsup wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: ahhh....elite PvP at it's finest.... what do you know about that?..... I often buy faction ammo...and carefully look for the lowest price within a reasonable travel distance. because that counts as elite pvp.....you should try low-sec sometime veers....i would love to tutor you.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 275	Posted - 2014.11.14 05:56:56 - [365] - Quote ggodhsup wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: ggodhsup wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: ahhh....elite PvP at it's finest.... what do you know about that?..... I often buy faction ammo...and carefully look for the lowest price within a reasonable travel distance. because that counts as elite pvp.....you should try low-sec sometime veers....i would love to tutor you. Nah, lowsec is a scary place with no police....where the bad pirate people live. You should really try L4 missions and other PvE in highsec.
J'mee Leggs Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 70	Posted - 2014.11.14 07:25:22 - [366] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: J'mee Leggs wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: I would probably take your analysis more seriously if I felt that the average RvB player was capable of reading through this thread and understanding the issues...but of course I do not....so please do carry on. Let's see: We were smart enough to look at the blue donut and say no thanks but instead of sperging on the forums FIX IT CCP! we took existing game mechanics and created our own little corner of the sandbox to play in. Five years later and our numbers have only steadily increased - real evidence of player support as opposed to some nebulous "silent majority". Arguably the most active hi sec corp in the game. And I can promise you we've helped more new players along than you and your silly little quixotic crusade for the lowest form of bottom feeder could ever dream of doing. Guess we'll just add RvB to the rapidly expanding list of things you are completely clueless about. You would be better off in the blue donut than in lame T1 frig battles around Jita. Brave Newbies (another group I have little regard for) at least realized how pointless corporations in highsec are and moved to nullsec....now they weren't competent enough to take down Provibloc...but at least they get an A for effort. The great RvB spends their time engaging in T1 frigs around Jita....WOW....CAN I HOPE TO BE LIKE YOU SOMEDAY?????? And your last sentence isn't even coherent.... "and I can promise you we've helped more new players along than you and your silly little quixotic crusade for the lowest form of bottom feeder could ever dream of doing." Huh? That's the problem with arguing with RvB...they can't even understand the issues sufficiently to make a point, much less express themselves in coherent English. It's like trying to debate a musty shoebox....all you get is a cough and a headache.... So move along...and go kill a T1 frig in Jita for me. Veers LOL If you or any mindless sheep buy into your irrelevanant nonsense then more power to you. Meanwhile those of us that actually play this game, even if they don't agree with your mindset, easily agree on the fact that you are nothing more than a forum troll. I may not be an economics genius or have a degree in internet law or whatever else you claim to be (without any real evidence, such as your nature) but even a simple RvB **** like myself can see that your entire manifisto is based on one simple assertion that is simply wrong in every meaningful way. protip: the only right your $14.99 a month buys you is the right to log in to the server. every, and I emphasize EVERY (including creating an avatar with pompous arms crossed looking like he's serviced his fair share of troop ships), action you take past that is a "right" CCP grants you because that is what they want to do. If you want to actually be taken seriously you would revise your core statement to read "I have the right to try to play CCP's game in the manner I find most enjoyable." Your subscription doesn't grant near as much rights as you seem to think it does. But I don't hold it against you, in a couple years you'll get to college and see that the world is so much bigger than you think it is right now. I wish you the best with your future endeavors, child. And while we're at it, no RvB member more than a day old is scared of :CODE: or suicide ganking in general. You can try to misrepresent us as much as you'd like but we help new people avoid being ganked far more than you or your **** ideas ever will. Also: You need to be as thick as pig ** to think that a high sec organization as large as RvB doesn't, if even accidentally, have some experience with every aspect of hi sec pve. Unless you're flat out stupid enough to think that a high sec organization as large as ours doesn't have at least a toe dipped into every aspect of hi sec pve. Are you really daft enough to suggest that a hi sec organization such as ours goes to low/null sec to make our money? RvB is an ISK sink at the end of the day which in turn makes us far more relevant than anyone like you will ever be. All bullshit aside, you still have yet to reconcile your fundamental idealogy with the simple fact that it is completely opposed to the stated (if not quite official) basic premise of this game. But yeah, RvB members are dumb thank god for Tears Belchnfart for showing us the way. High Sec is super dangerous and should be nerfed. Praise be to our our One True Savior, whatever his name was... (Obligatory praise to Plave Okice inserted here for showing us the way)
J'mee Leggs Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 70	Posted - 2014.11.14 07:35:02 - [367] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: J'mee Leggs wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: I would probably take your analysis more seriously if I felt that the average RvB player was capable of reading through this thread and understanding the issues...but of course I do not....so please do carry on. Let's see: We were smart enough to look at the blue donut and say no thanks but instead of sperging on the forums FIX IT CCP! we took existing game mechanics and created our own little corner of the sandbox to play in. Five years later and our numbers have only steadily increased - real evidence of player support as opposed to some nebulous "silent majority". Arguably the most active hi sec corp in the game. And I can promise you we've helped more new players along than you and your silly little quixotic crusade for the lowest form of bottom feeder could ever dream of doing. Guess we'll just add RvB to the rapidly expanding list of things you are completely clueless about. You would be better off in the blue donut than in lame T1 frig battles around Jita. Brave Newbies (another group I have little regard for) at least realized how pointless corporations in highsec are and moved to nullsec....now they weren't competent enough to take down Provibloc...but at least they get an A for effort. The great RvB spends their time engaging in T1 frigs around Jita....WOW....CAN I HOPE TO BE LIKE YOU SOMEDAY?????? And your last sentence isn't even coherent.... "and I can promise you we've helped more new players along than you and your silly little quixotic crusade for the lowest form of bottom feeder could ever dream of doing." Huh? That's the problem with arguing with RvB...they can't even understand the issues sufficiently to make a point, much less express themselves in coherent English. It's like trying to debate a musty shoebox....all you get is a cough and a headache.... So move along...and go kill a T1 frig in Jita for me. Veers I'm not going to modify this quote in any way as the way it stands now perfectly emphasizes your complete ignorance regarding RvB. If you think I'm wrong then feel free to please send us an app. A tard like you wouldn't last a day. Nevertheless your tears would be worth the stigma of having you as a member.
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5882	Posted - 2014.11.14 07:48:55 - [368] - Quote Based on experience, only the most noble and brave of EVE players are able to venture into the pure lands of lowsec. The filthy highsec pubbie peons are unable to enter or stay/last long due to having very little clarity of spirit. HEIL SANSHA!! GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2052	Posted - 2014.11.14 08:15:04 - [369] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Based on experience, only the most noble and brave of EVE players are able to venture into the pure lands of lowsec. The filthy highsec pubbie peons are unable to enter or stay/last long due to having very little clarity of spirit. HEIL SANSHA!! Confirming that clarity of spirit is a prerequisite for lowsec, and can be fully achieved only through hundreds of ship explosions (including your own). Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
J'mee Leggs Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 70	Posted - 2014.11.14 08:23:13 - [370] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Based on experience, only the most noble and brave of EVE players are able to venture into the pure lands of lowsec. The filthy highsec pubbie peons are unable to enter or stay/last long due to having very little clarity of spirit. HEIL SANSHA!! Confirming that clarity of spirit is a prerequisite for lowsec, and can be fully achieved only through hundreds of ship explosions (including your own). I have had well over one hundred ships explodeed, is it ok if I venture into low and/or null sec even if I don't provide tears when my fancy internet spaceship gets rearranged into pixels resembling an explosion?

Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2052	Posted - 2014.11.14 08:48:32 - [371] - Quote J'mee Leggs wrote: I have had well over one hundred ships explodeed, is it ok if I venture into low and/or null sec even if I don't provide tears when my fancy internet spaceship gets rearranged into pixels resembling an explosion? Absolutely! We don't really care that much about 'tears' in lowsec, the heat from all the explosions tends to quickly evaporate them anyways. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5884	Posted - 2014.11.14 08:56:16 - [372] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: J'mee Leggs wrote: I have had well over one hundred ships explodeed, is it ok if I venture into low and/or null sec even if I don't provide tears when my fancy internet spaceship gets rearranged into pixels resembling an explosion? Absolutely! We don't really care that much about 'tears' in lowsec, the heat from all the explosions tends to quickly evaporate them anyways. Point of order: while we may not be seeking tears specifically, when a pubbie offers them anyway, I'm not one to decline the generous sacrifice of scrublord tears. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4148	Posted - 2014.11.14 09:12:30 - [373] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Gully Alex Foyle wrote: J'mee Leggs wrote: I have had well over one hundred ships explodeed, is it ok if I venture into low and/or null sec even if I don't provide tears when my fancy internet spaceship gets rearranged into pixels resembling an explosion? Absolutely! We don't really care that much about 'tears' in lowsec, the heat from all the explosions tends to quickly evaporate them anyways. Point of order: while we may not be seeking tears specifically, when a pubbie offers them anyway, I'm not one to decline the generous sacrifice of scrublord tears. trash in local, though, that's mandatory
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 21269	Posted - 2014.11.14 09:13:34 - [374] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Gully Alex Foyle wrote: I have had well over one hundred ships explodeed, is it ok if I venture into low and/or null sec even if I don't provide tears when my fancy internet spaceship gets rearranged into pixels resembling an explosion? Absolutely! We don't really care that much about 'tears' in lowsec, the heat from all the explosions tends to quickly evaporate them anyways. Confirming, tears are not what I seek. Only explosions (mine or theirs is fine as long as it's a good fight). Actually, I don't remember anyone giving me anything other than a 'gf' in local for a long time. There was this one guy in Old Man Star about a year ago that used some colorful language in local after I killed him and he couldn't understand why an Gallente pirate would be killing a Gallente militia.... Other then that, tears are something I don't see much of at all when roaming about. Lowsec is a great place to live. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 632	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:24:10 - [375] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Lowsec is a great place to live. Amen brother, amen. With the recent changes it has truely become the land of opportunity, you can find pretty much any kind of pvp you want if you look hard enough. As for us we're just happy we dont have to be so paranoid about bored nullseccers whenever we feel like putting a few caps on field any more. Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin you're welcome
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 276	Posted - 2014.11.14 17:03:25 - [376] - Quote J'mee Leggs wrote: LOL If you or any mindless sheep buy into your irrelevanant nonsense then more power to you. Meanwhile those of us that actually play this game, even if they don't agree with your mindset, easily agree on the fact that you are nothing more than a forum troll. I may not be an economics genius or have a degree in internet law or whatever else you claim to be (without any real evidence, such as your nature) but even a simple RvB **** like myself can see that your entire manifesto is based on one simple assertion that is simply wrong in every meaningful way. protip: the only right your $14.99 a month buys you is the right to log in to the server. every, and I emphasize EVERY (including creating an avatar with pompous arms crossed looking like he's serviced his fair share of troop ships), action you take past that is a "right" CCP grants you because that is what they want to do. If you want to actually be taken seriously you would revise your core statement to read "I have the right to try to play CCP's game in the manner I find most enjoyable." Your subscription doesn't grant near as much rights as you seem to think it does. But I don't hold it against you, in a couple years you'll get to college and see that the world is so much bigger than you think it is right now. I wish you the best with your future endeavors, child. And while we're at it, no RvB member more than a day old is scared of :CODE: or suicide ganking in general. You can try to misrepresent us as much as you'd like but we help new people avoid being ganked far more than you or your **** ideas ever will. Also: You need to be as thick as pig ** to think that a high sec organization as large as RvB doesn't, if even accidentally, have some experience with every aspect of hi sec pve. Unless you're flat out stupid enough to think that a high sec organization as large as ours doesn't have at least a toe dipped into every aspect of hi sec pve. Are you really daft enough to suggest that we go to low/null sec to make our money? RvB is an ISK sink at the end of the day which in turn makes us far more relevant than anyone like you will ever be. All bullshit aside, you still have yet to reconcile your fundamental idealogy with the simple fact that it is completely opposed to the stated (if not quite official) basic premise of this game. But yeah, RvB members are dumb thank god for Tears Belchnfart for showing us the way. High Sec is super dangerous and should be nerfed (or buffed. I'm frankly confused by all of the circular logic and flat out ignorance displayed by the one that will save us). Praise be to our our One True Savior, whatever his name was... (Obligatory praise to Plave Okice inserted here for showing us the way. Come back1111ONE !) I'm not sure what you are trying to say....lots of words....no content. But, considering you are RvB, no real hope of a coherent back and forth anyway. So just don't bother.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 5662	Posted - 2014.11.14 17:07:19 - [377] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: ggodhsup wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Anything else? Or can this painful back and forth end now? plenty more.....im lurking in all your posts. ahhh....elite PvP at it's finest.... People have an inordinate fear of AFK cloakers... but you madam have taken it one step further...to wit, The AFK forum lurker. Now that will truly cast terror into the hearts of Eve players everywhere. GGWP There used to be a player called "AFK Cloaker", an amarrian with the hood over his face. Every thread about cloaking he would post this: ... And always at the right moment too. I miss that player. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nishachara Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 7	Posted - 2014.11.14 21:03:05 - [378] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: There used to be a player called "AFK Cloaker", an amarrian with the hood over his face. Every thread about cloaking he would post this: ... And always at the right moment too. I miss that player. Oh maaan... i remember him.. he had one of the gratest posts on the forums. As far as i remember when all the whineing about afk cloakers begun ( somwhere around dominion i think..not sure thou )... he turned up and stalked forums ever since ... XD As for the OP.. didn't read all of the thread, but a few advices : 1. Hagilur, Otou ( which ever from those two systems is that by Hek, dont remember the name exactly )... same as ammamake ( by Rens ) are camped all the time, go into other regions low sec, Domain region in amarr space is pretty empty 2. Map, Dotlan maps, learn to use it... if players in system in last 30 minutes are more than 10.. and that is not the case every day ( in other words its not a bussy low sec system )... and ship / pod kills are more then 5 or even a two digit number it is very likely that it is a camp. If there are a lot of players and kills every day ( as in ammamake or systems as such ) then it is a busy low sec system. 3. When you jump, you dont have to move your ship right away, you have time to drink some cofie, roll up a cigarette, and look at teh situation and decite what you want to do. If you think youll lose the ship.. set next destination for autopilot the gate you want to escape with your pod, so its yellow and you dont make mistake in clicking... ( for getting your pod out ). 4. There are rewards with persistance, you dont have to be a pvper to go to low sec, you can be a regular carebear that is more carefull and you can earn a lot of isk.. try it again and again, youll see it is worthwile
Kaely Tanniss Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 70	Posted - 2014.11.15 08:02:28 - [379] - Quote J'mee Leggs wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: This means pvp players in low/null, and pve players in high. Greetings Mr. Belvar. I hope this missive finds you in good health and fortune. We here at RvB value input from all of our potential consumers and were thoroughly intrigued by your suggestion to remove pvp from hi sec altogether. I'm embarassed to admit that this idea, as simple and elegant as it is, simply never occured to us. Now many corps, when finding themselves in a situation such as this, would simply release a pre-written statement carefully formed to remain neutral in the face of what is sure to be a controversial issue when you decide to go forward with implementing it. RvB holds itself to a higher standard than most corps however. We firmly believe that the personal touch is what makes us the unique and successful organization we are. Indeed, we encourage all members of RvB, whether in the employ of the Glorious Red Federation or working for the perfectly adequate Blue Republic, to get out there and personally touch as many denizens of New Eden as possible on a daily basis. Why, with all the touching its a bit of a miracle we ever manage to get any work done at all. However, when we receive a potentially game changing suggestion, especially from someone as important as yourself, we make the time. We began by opening up a forum so all members could voice any opinions or concerns. We then formed a committee to take all of that raw data and collate it into a manageable set of bullet points that covered all of the foreseeable pros and cons of this suggestion as it relates to us. These bullet points were then discussed in a series of round table debates. After we felt we had gathered enough information to accurately represent our members' desires in this matter our upper management retired to the boardroom to decide what our official response would be. They returned not only with a counter proposal, but also an official finding to be recorded in alliance logs so that all future members could be appropriately enlightened. An interesting side note here is that both the counter proposal and the official finding were unanimously supported by RvB in its entirety, a very rare thing for any corporation, as I'm sure you can imagine. In light of all this it is with no small amount of pride that I, J'mee Leggs, on this day, in accordance with the responsibilities of my assigned role and on behalf of RvB as a whole, would like to kindly invite you to go stick your head in a trout. Furthermore, we have determined that you are the stupidest piece of excrement to ever extrude from the internet and deposit itself on these forums. Thank you for your support and as always, if you have any further questions or comments please feel free to contact us. Warmest regards, J'mee Leggs RvB Department of Public Relations (intern) Possibly the best post I have read on these forums in a long time..I lol'd so hard my stomach now hurts. +100 If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Kaely Tanniss Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 70	Posted - 2014.11.15 08:07:19 - [380] - Quote J'mee Leggs wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: J'mee Leggs wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: I would probably take your analysis more seriously if I felt that the average RvB player was capable of reading through this thread and understanding the issues...but of course I do not....so please do carry on. Let's see: We were smart enough to look at the blue donut and say no thanks but instead of sperging on the forums FIX IT CCP! we took existing game mechanics and created our own little corner of the sandbox to play in. Five years later and our numbers have only steadily increased - real evidence of player support as opposed to some nebulous "silent majority". Arguably the most active hi sec corp in the game. And I can promise you we've helped more new players along than you and your silly little quixotic crusade for the lowest form of bottom feeder could ever dream of doing. Guess we'll just add RvB to the rapidly expanding list of things you are completely clueless about. You would be better off in the blue donut than in lame T1 frig battles around Jita. Brave Newbies (another group I have little regard for) at least realized how pointless corporations in highsec are and moved to nullsec....now they weren't competent enough to take down Provibloc...but at least they get an A for effort. The great RvB spends their time engaging in T1 frigs around Jita....WOW....CAN I HOPE TO BE LIKE YOU SOMEDAY?????? And your last sentence isn't even coherent.... "and I can promise you we've helped more new players along than you and your silly little quixotic crusade for the lowest form of bottom feeder could ever dream of doing." Huh? That's the problem with arguing with RvB...they can't even understand the issues sufficiently to make a point, much less express themselves in coherent English. It's like trying to debate a musty shoebox....all you get is a cough and a headache.... So move along...and go kill a T1 frig in Jita for me. Veers LOL If you or any mindless sheep buy into your irrelevanant nonsense then more power to you. Meanwhile those of us that actually play this game, even if they don't agree with your mindset, easily agree on the fact that you are nothing more than a forum troll. I may not be an economics genius or have a degree in internet law or whatever else you claim to be (without any real evidence, such as your nature) but even a simple RvB **** like myself can see that your entire manifesto is based on one simple assertion that is simply wrong in every meaningful way. protip: the only right your $14.99 a month buys you is the right to log in to the server. every, and I emphasize EVERY (including creating an avatar with pompous arms crossed looking like he's serviced his fair share of troop ships), action you take past that is a "right" CCP grants you because that is what they want to do. If you want to actually be taken seriously you would revise your core statement to read "I have the right to try to play CCP's game in the manner I find most enjoyable." Your subscription doesn't grant near as much rights as you seem to think it does. But I don't hold it against you, in a couple years you'll get to college and see that the world is so much bigger than you think it is right now. I wish you the best with your future endeavors, child. And while we're at it, no RvB member more than a day old is scared of :CODE: or suicide ganking in general. You can try to misrepresent us as much as you'd like but we help new people avoid being ganked far more than you or your **** ideas ever will. Also: You need to be as thick as pig ** to think that a high sec organization as large as RvB doesn't, if even accidentally, have some experience with every aspect of hi sec pve. Unless you're flat out stupid enough to think that a high sec organization as large as ours doesn't have at least a toe dipped into every aspect of hi sec pve. Are you really daft enough to suggest that we go to low/null sec to make our money? RvB is an ISK sink at the end of the day which in turn makes us far more relevant than anyone like you will ever be. All bullshit aside, you still have yet to reconcile your fundamental idealogy with the simple fact that it is completely opposed to the stated (if not quite official) basic premise of this game. But yeah, RvB members are dumb thank god for Tears Belchnfart for showing us the way. High Sec is super dangerous and should be nerfed (or buffed. I'm frankly confused by all of the circular logic and flat out ignorance displayed by the one that will save us). Praise be to our our One True Savior, whatever his name was... (Obligatory praise to Plave Okice inserted here for showing us the way. Come back1111ONE !) OMG...stop it...it hurts...no more laughing... If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..



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