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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5569
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Posted - 2014.11.18 20:35:17 -
[61] - Quote
Lilly The Pink wrote:Well prices are rising so much I'm becoming tempted to hoard some myself. However from past experience as a rubbish market speculator if an item is looking like a 'must' investment and I decide to throw money at it you can be pretty certain the 'bubble' is about to pop!
Bubble or not, you are meant to "buy low" before (hoping to) selling high. Now it's not low.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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The UberSoldier
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2014.11.18 22:11:59 -
[62] - Quote
Remember this thead. Next year, there will be a new one with "why is plex so expensive (with a price at 1.3 bil)"
I, for my self, finally learned one thing: Plex is always expensive, there will be no huge crash because there are so many wealthy people trying to secure their money from inflation. If the market would crash we would see huge demand from various people (which are atm just waiting for lower prices) and less supply (because its not sensible anymore to get that few ISK for real life money) -> PLEX rises again.
Look at the PLEX price on the Chinese Server, in 3-4 years we are going to have these prices on Tranquility. |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra Gallente Federation
143
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Posted - 2014.11.19 10:28:08 -
[63] - Quote
The UberSoldier wrote:Remember this thead. Next year, there will be a new one with "why is plex so expensive (with a price at 1.3 bil)" . You can expect a thread like this every few months even :P . |
Dave Stark
7190
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Posted - 2014.11.19 11:14:20 -
[64] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Now it's not low.
*looks at serenity*
righty. |
Dianalexia
Gea'Vii Enterprises
8
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Posted - 2014.11.19 11:28:14 -
[65] - Quote
If less players are going to play do to high price of plex, CCP will probably do something to limit the gold like value of plex (which might be the the real problem with this item). If the number of players will stay the same or increase, so will do the price of plex.
On the other hand, I think CCP already thought about the worst case scenario when they introduced the "Pilot training certificate". |
Ria Nieyli
23218
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Posted - 2014.11.19 13:03:36 -
[66] - Quote
Checked prices today. Had a good chuckle.
Clone Grade Nu
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Dianalexia
Gea'Vii Enterprises
8
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Posted - 2014.11.19 19:54:36 -
[67] - Quote
Currently taking a long brake because of boredom, but honestly I will probably be less inclined to get back if I will have to spend too much time to get the isk necessary to fund my accounts with plex. That time may vary from person to person and i'm not that patient
Thanks CCP, it was nice.
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Zahara Cody
Imperial Corrections Service.
149
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Posted - 2014.11.19 20:14:55 -
[68] - Quote
Prices are falling... sell. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
633
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Posted - 2014.11.19 20:16:20 -
[69] - Quote
Zahara Cody wrote:Prices are falling... sell. ...to my buy orders. |
350125GO
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
133
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Posted - 2014.11.19 20:40:12 -
[70] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Zahara Cody wrote:Prices are falling... sell. ...to my buy orders.
PLEX are the new T2 BPOs. They must be nerfed!
You're young, you'll adjust.
I'm old, I'll get used to it.
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Zahara Cody
Imperial Corrections Service.
149
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Posted - 2014.11.19 20:56:53 -
[71] - Quote
350125GO wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Zahara Cody wrote:Prices are falling... sell. ...to my buy orders. PLEX are the new T2 BPOs. They must be nerfed!
Can't nerf t2 bpos any further. |
Alek Azam
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
27
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Posted - 2014.11.19 22:17:24 -
[72] - Quote
Zahara Cody wrote:350125GO wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Zahara Cody wrote:Prices are falling... sell. ...to my buy orders. PLEX are the new T2 BPOs. They must be nerfed! Can't nerf t2 bpos any further.
WTFunk! I have sold all my plex and bought 30 T2 BPO's.
Blog: http://sellyourmainbro.blogspot.co.uk/
Twitter: @_Alek_Azam_
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Circumstantial Evidence
156
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Posted - 2014.11.19 22:50:39 -
[73] - Quote
According to eve-central at this time, ~6800 buy orders are chasing after ~500 available for sale. I think plex 'collectors' have succeeded at driving price up, by keeping stock off the market. I expect stocks to be re-listed and price to come down, close to the nearly-inevitable holiday CCP sale. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
564
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Posted - 2014.11.20 00:02:40 -
[74] - Quote
I'd quite like to see PLEX have an expiry time after their first market transaction to stop people stockpiling them for trading and reselling later.
I'd also like to see Mila Kunis naked in my bed waiting for me later, however I know that won't happen either all because CCP is so greedy for people's real money and know higher PLEX prices means more in game stuff for people's money.... and less chance for Mila in my bed.
Barstewards.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3643
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Posted - 2014.11.20 01:24:44 -
[75] - Quote
I am interested to see how much the price falls when the next significant sale on 30 PLEX packs hits and the whales get Christmas bonuses.
And I am also interested in how much the price rises the next time Power of Two is advertised. Didn't X ATM invest almost a thousand PLEX in that recently?
www.minerbumping.com - Mining accidents are increasing. Get your permit now.
Ganking doesn't need a purpose, the gank is its own purpose.
You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I gank.
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Zetsubou Gakusei
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.11.20 08:38:27 -
[76] - Quote
I had an experiment in mind but since I'm no expert trader I have no idea what would happen.
Let's say I buy a single plex from CCP Then I sell that plex through a sell order Then with the money I set up a buy order for a plex
Then if it gets fullfilled I sell that plex again and so on
What would happen? would I slowly make enough of a profit to be able to buy a second plex? Would the increasing prices interefere or make this process easier?
Maybe people are already doing this?
Is this a completely dumb idea and I'd just waste money?
What do the experts think? |
Angelica Everstar
53
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Posted - 2014.11.20 13:29:41 -
[77] - Quote
IF done right - sure If not - you will just waste time and some isk
§ Any typos, bad spelling or grammar found, are yours to keep.
¦Æ In progress : Angel ConsultingGäó || Angel's Pawn ShopGäó
¢ Bonds : Current AE06 200b // Total : 1.05 Trillion ISK
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
633
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Posted - 2014.11.20 13:58:29 -
[78] - Quote
If you have to ask these questions, then chances are the excercise would not end well!
But it is absolutely possible to profit from an approach like that. |
Zetsubou Gakusei
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.11.20 14:08:17 -
[79] - Quote
Angelica Everstar wrote:IF done right - sure If not - you will just waste time and some isk
Bad Bobby wrote: If you have to ask these questions, then chances are the excercise would not end well!
But it is absolutely possible to profit from an approach like that.
Of course I know I'd probably fail given my little knowledge of the subject.
Still, it's pretty interesting to know |
Elvandari
Valheru industries Imperium of Rising Luna
3
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Posted - 2014.11.20 14:24:34 -
[80] - Quote
Zetsubou Gakusei wrote:Angelica Everstar wrote:IF done right - sure If not - you will just waste time and some isk Bad Bobby wrote: If you have to ask these questions, then chances are the excercise would not end well!
But it is absolutely possible to profit from an approach like that. Of course I know I'd probably fail given my little knowledge of the subject. Still, it's pretty interesting to know
sometimes it is really hard to make profit from trading PLEX due to broker fees and taxes being really high but you definitely can do that (as i already did few times in the past) |
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
633
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Posted - 2014.11.20 14:44:01 -
[81] - Quote
Elvandari wrote:sometimes it is really hard to make profit from trading PLEX due to broker fees and taxes That is deliberate.
Closing the gap between buy and sell so that only people with very high standings can profitably trade an item is a tried and tested method.
This works well on items with high price and high traded volume, as you can make a non-trivial amount from each trade and multiply that by a large volume of trades. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3652
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Posted - 2014.11.20 22:37:39 -
[82] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Elvandari wrote:sometimes it is really hard to make profit from trading PLEX due to broker fees and taxes That is deliberate. Closing the gap between buy and sell so that only people with very high standings can profitably trade an item is a tried and tested method. This works well on items with high price and high traded volume, as you can make a non-trivial amount from each trade and multiply that by a large volume of trades.
This is why trillionaires will pay absurd amounts for characters with extreme standings (like 9.8 Gallente Federation to player and 9.993 Federation Navy to player).
www.minerbumping.com - Mining accidents are increasing. Get your permit now.
Ganking doesn't need a purpose, the gank is its own purpose.
You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I gank.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2542
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Posted - 2014.11.21 01:53:31 -
[83] - Quote
Watching plex drop 40 mil in less than an hour after they hit 1 bil was good fun. |
Airto TLA
Puppeteers of Doom
65
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Posted - 2014.11.21 05:46:58 -
[84] - Quote
I have to assume the problem of supply has finally come to roost. There are simply not enough people willing to pay to "win" Eve any more. They have been massively outnumbered by those who have isk there way PLex for years and know no other way. The banned miners plexs probably just slowed the inevitable. |
Isabella Odelia
Golden-Lions Uncharted Infinite Spiral Drillings
0
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Posted - 2014.11.21 06:51:34 -
[85] - Quote
The UberSoldier wrote:Remember this thead. Next year, there will be a new one with "why is plex so expensive (with a price at 1.3 bil)"
I, for my self, finally learned one thing: Plex is always expensive, there will be no huge crash because there are so many wealthy people trying to secure their money from inflation. If the market would crash we would see huge demand from various people (which are atm just waiting for lower prices) and less supply (because its not sensible anymore to get that few ISK for real life money) -> PLEX rises again.
Look at the PLEX price on the Chinese Server, in 3-4 years we are going to have these prices on Tranquility.
And then we are going to have no more than 15000 poeple online at same time, just same as Chinese Server.
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Cista2
Phoibe Enterprises
26
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Posted - 2014.11.21 08:48:16 -
[86] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Elvandari wrote:sometimes it is really hard to make profit from trading PLEX due to broker fees and taxes That is deliberate. Closing the gap between buy and sell so that only people with very high standings can profitably trade an item is a tried and tested method. This works well on items with high price and high traded volume, as you can make a non-trivial amount from each trade and multiply that by a large volume of trades. Utter nonsense from someone who has not station-traded a day in his life. Disinformation to put it nicely.
There are less than 100 PLEX sold in Jita per hour. But PLEX is not like other items. a) PLEX are largely sold by players that bought them the from CCP with RL money, so not station traders. b) PLEX are largely bought by players that consume them, so not station traders c) PLEX have risen 150 million isk in 1 month. The majority of PLEX are of course bought and sold by traders holding *positions* in PLEX, i.e. not riding the narrow spread but keeping their distance to it. Thus making not 10, but 40, 60, 80 million isk per unit.
I am estimating only 10 PLEX per hour are bought and sold by true margin traders in Jita. Look at the listed prices yourself and see how little 0.01 isking is going on. This does not constitute the postulated "large volume of trades" by any one person with perfect broker relations. There are many important factors controlling the price of PLEX.... daytraders are not one of them. |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
436
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Posted - 2014.11.21 09:44:19 -
[87] - Quote
Cista2 wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Elvandari wrote:sometimes it is really hard to make profit from trading PLEX due to broker fees and taxes That is deliberate. Closing the gap between buy and sell so that only people with very high standings can profitably trade an item is a tried and tested method. This works well on items with high price and high traded volume, as you can make a non-trivial amount from each trade and multiply that by a large volume of trades. Utter nonsense from someone who has not station-traded a day in his life. Disinformation to put it nicely. There are less than 100 PLEX sold in Jita per hour. But PLEX is not like other items. a) PLEX are largely sold by players that bought them the from CCP with RL money, so not station traders. b) PLEX are largely bought by players that consume them, so not station traders c) PLEX have risen 150 million isk in 1 month. The majority of PLEX are of course bought and sold by traders holding *positions* in PLEX, i.e. not riding the narrow spread but keeping their distance to it. Thus making not 10, but 40, 60, 80 million isk per unit. I am estimating no more than 10 PLEX per hour are bought and sold by a few true margin traders in Jita. Look at the listed prices yourself and see how little 0.01 isking is going on. This does not constitute the postulated "large volume of trades" by any given person with perfect broker relations. There are many important factors controlling the price of PLEX.... daytraders are not one of them.
Depends on your capital :) If you can generate enough capital through other means and withhold say 10% of plex per day off the market you will drive the price up. |
Sir Constantin
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:21:14 -
[88] - Quote
Airto TLA wrote:I have to assume the problem of supply has finally come to roost. There are simply not enough people willing to pay to "win" Eve any more. They have been massively outnumbered by those who have isk there way PLex for years and know no other way. The banned miners plexs probably just slowed the inevitable.
Or maybe is because plex hoarders are investing in plex, they don't care about plex price because it wil always go up. So it's a win win for them. For every 5 or more paying customers there is a person who makes 5 bil/month or more and is able to buy and stash 5 or more plexes.
I think CCP should limit the amount of plex a person can have and make people to invest in real ingame items. |
RAW23
867
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:44:11 -
[89] - Quote
Cista2 wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Elvandari wrote:sometimes it is really hard to make profit from trading PLEX due to broker fees and taxes That is deliberate. Closing the gap between buy and sell so that only people with very high standings can profitably trade an item is a tried and tested method. This works well on items with high price and high traded volume, as you can make a non-trivial amount from each trade and multiply that by a large volume of trades. Utter nonsense from someone who has not station-traded a day in his life. Disinformation to put it nicely. There are less than 100 PLEX sold in Jita per hour. But PLEX is not like other items. a) PLEX are largely sold by players that bought them the from CCP with RL money, so not station traders. b) PLEX are largely bought by players that consume them, so not station traders c) PLEX have risen 150 million isk in 1 month. The majority of PLEX are of course bought and sold by traders holding *positions* in PLEX, i.e. not riding the narrow spread but keeping their distance to it. Thus making not 10, but 40, 60, 80 million isk per unit. I am estimating no more than 10 PLEX per hour are bought and sold by a few true margin traders in Jita. Look at the listed prices yourself and see how little 0.01 isking is going on. This does not constitute the postulated "large volume of trades" by any given person with perfect broker relations. There are many important factors controlling the price of PLEX.... daytraders are not one of them.
This is very, very, very wrong on pretty much every point.
When I am casually trading the plex margin as a side thing to my main basket of goods or doing it on a second screen while in fleet I normally flip 20 or so plex an hour by myself. On the rare occasions I focus on it it can be 30-40. I am competing with a lot of people and I am never a major player in the PLEX market, keeping my buy orders small.
Bear in mind that most people who buy plexes with real money do not put up a sell order to dispose of them - they sell them to the margin traders who have buy orders up. Why? because if you don't have skills and standings you pay a 1% broker fee on top of your sales tax and that wipes out almost all the extra isk you would have earned from selling on a sell order over a buy. Also, most people who buy plexes with rl cash want instant gratification and don't want to nurse sell orders. So, the majority of what you see on sells are recycled from buys.
You can check this by looking at the highest, lowest and average prices on the chart from days when the price was relatively stable - average in normally roughly in the middle of lowest and highest, suggesting that the volume of goods sold on sell orders and buy orders is roughly proportional.
_There are two types of EVE player: _
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
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Cista2
Phoibe Enterprises
27
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:01:32 -
[90] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:[This is very, very, very wrong on pretty much every point.
When I am casually trading the plex margin as a side thing to my main basket of goods or doing it on a second screen while in fleet I normally flip 20 or so plex an hour by myself. On the rare occasions I focus on it it can be 30-40. I am competing with a lot of people and I am never a major player in the PLEX market, keeping my buy orders small. If I spend a day trading on the weekends then 300 billion isk of trades in plex might pass through my hands in an 8 hour period. Margins are tiny but they add up so it's something to do with excess isk that stacks up beyond what I need for my regular trading.
Bear in mind that most people who buy plexes with real money do not put up a sell order to dispose of them - they sell them to the margin traders who have buy orders up. Why? because if you don't have skills and standings you pay a 1% broker fee on top of your sales tax and that wipes out almost all the extra isk you would have earned from selling on a sell order over a buy. Also, most people who buy plexes with rl cash want instant gratification and don't want to nurse sell orders. So, the majority of what you see on sells are recycled from buys.
You can check this by looking at the highest, lowest and average prices on the chart from days when the price was relatively stable - average in normally roughly in the middle of lowest and highest, suggesting that the volume of goods sold on sell orders and buy orders is roughly proportional. So, less than 100 PLEX are sold (in Jita) per hour, and you are personally responsible for 30-40 of those less than 100 sold? That is impressive indeed, but I do not understand why you call yourself a small player when you have "casually" cornered so much of the market.
Maybe your monopoly is why there is no 0.01 isking on this item
Anyway, the statement that was made by Bad Bobby was that the players with the perfect broker standings have "deliberately" made the spread on the item so small that noone else can make any profit. This is what I said was utter nonsense, and that the spread on PLEX is decided not by the daytraders - the daytraders simply trade within the price margin that the item has. I did *not* say that is not possible to make profit on that spread and that noone is doing it. I said that daytraders are not the important factor in price development of PLEX.
You, who trade 30-40 PLEX per hour on the slim margin spread, must then be the right question to answer the question: have you deliberately minimised your own profits to the smallest possible, just to squeeze any competitiors out? You did say that I am wrong in everything I put forward, so we just need a confirmation that to minimize your profit is indeed your strategy. Alternatively, if that is not your strategy, then you should in fact agree with me that such a strategy is nonsensical.
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