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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
109
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Posted - 2015.04.20 16:01:31 -
[391] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: You assume two things rather poorly. First that most capitals are bought on the market at all and not simply built (thus not actually being counted in CPI)
That is irrelevant, as the value is being built into them from the current Trit, Pyerite, Mexallon valuations.
If they were honest, they'd calculate CPI just as they do with Mineral index, because Trit, Pyerite, Mex, Isogen, Nocx, Zyd & Mega are the irreducible necessities in our universe that one needs to merely survive & function.
Has been so, and so it remains.
Quote:CCP Takes ships and fits them with common fittings, since the price of modules has been decimated over the last years the price of the total package is still low.
Yes, they take T1-fit battleships circa 2003 @ 99mil total and compare them to T2-fit battlecruisers, and then say there is no inflation in Eve.
Prices are stable!
Quote:Also why shouldn't the drop from a 90day post release price of 1bil for a tengu that now sells for 140mil not be included?
Because that's an illiquid commodity, which also constitutes only a minuscule fraction of spaceships used.
We're talking about placing standard table wine in the same basket with a -ú12,000 bottle.
Quote:Inflation is inflation and deflation is deflation. But cherry picking one segment or a handful of ships and declaring their graphs and stats wrong is just bad form.
Yes, indeed - do not cherry pick and single out Deadspace loot, and acknowledge that they had been great inflation in the price of ship hulls.
That is the case, and following the Nullsec ore changes later this month, that is also expected and welcomed. Should probably take until the end of the Summer to properly rebalance.
Also, what of the 28 Trillion ISK per month being injected into the game?
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
127
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Posted - 2015.04.20 17:34:54 -
[392] - Quote
Actually when battleships came out they weren't cheap. The fact remains that cpi has gone up and down but has averaged more down in the relevant time frame of the last half decade. Furthermore if that 99mil bs you keep bringing up is worth 150mil today after 12 years then you just proved inflation a non factor. Unfortunately for you bs weren't 99 mil back in the day and ships in the teir 2 and 3 are actually cheaper.
Again stop looking at a couple of items and look at the entire primary market together. Yes individual segments have inflated due to buffs, nerfs, game changes but the cost of staple goods and the culmination of the market is deflationary.
Knock that off quoting 28 tril injected monthly without first having the numbers of what was removed. Thousands of accounts have been banned with untold amounts of assets and isk. Also sinks are not included in that number. Stop with the purposely misuse of incomplete data. |
Molic Blackbird
Orion Faction Industries Orion Consortium
132
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Posted - 2015.04.20 17:45:47 -
[393] - Quote
GankYou wrote:But what of the 28 Trillion ISK per month being injected into the economy?
An increase in money supply is one part of what brings about inflation. You are leaving out the amount of materials that are also being injected into the economy. If there are 28 trillion ISK worth of minerals, moon goo, meta loot and other items entering the game, inflation will be mitigated to a large extent.
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
554
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Posted - 2015.04.20 17:49:17 -
[394] - Quote
Is 28T not the number after sinks? Sure banned accounts and people quitting aren't accounted for, but it's pretty close to the stats we were given a few years ago (http://blog.beyondreality.se/ISK-faucets-sinks).
.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
111
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Posted - 2015.04.20 18:02:17 -
[395] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:that 99mil bs you keep bringing up is worth 150mil today after 12 years then you just proved inflation a non factor.
So we went from there being no inflation in Eve, to inflation being a non-factor. Fascinating.
That example contained the Armageddon battleship, which cost 60 mil then, and 180 now - a 200% increase, or ((180/60)^(1/12) - 1) * 100 = 9.58% yearly inflation.
Quote:Unfortunately for you bs weren't 99 mil back in the day and ships in the teir 2 and 3 are actually cheaper.
Yes, they were 50-60 mil for Tier 1 like the Armageddon and 70-90mil for Tier 2 such as the Apocalypse. That is why I didn't include tiericide of either Battleships or Battlecruisers in the initial figure, as that further establishes the point.
The fully-T1 fit 99 mil example is straight from their own presentation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie9V2P5El0E
Again stop looking at a couple of items and look at the entire primary market together. Yes individual segments have inflated due to buffs, nerfs, game changes but the cost of staple goods and the culmination of the market is deflationary. [/quote]
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
554
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Posted - 2015.04.20 20:18:53 -
[396] - Quote
GankYou wrote: That example contained the Armageddon battleship, which cost 60 mil then, and 180 now - a 200% increase, or ((180/60)^(1/12) - 1) * 100 = 9.58% avg yearly inflation.
Those had their material requirements significantly increased when BS tiericide happened though, but you know this, so what is your point?
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
111
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Posted - 2015.04.20 20:43:08 -
[397] - Quote
This is why I made a remark on Tier 3.
As to the whole grand purpose, I guess if one doesn't see it - there is none.
Carry on as you were.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Alexi Stokov
State War Academy Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2015.04.21 03:18:12 -
[398] - Quote
Wow have not been in game for a bit. Was not expecting 850 PLEX |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
127
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Posted - 2015.04.21 03:23:11 -
[399] - Quote
GankYou wrote:This is why I made a remark on Tier 3. As to the whole grand purpose, I guess if one doesn't see it - there is none. Carry on as you were. P.S. For those who haven't seen the 2014 Economic presentation, it is the most current one to my knowledge - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2hsqEvPGWQ
Did you even watch your own video?
Go to 7:04 and take a look, see how ALL of the indexes are under 100.
Guess you know what that means?
Trit might have gone up 300% since game start, but I guess you can't guess where Zyd, or Mega or the high ends sans Nox has gone?
Bet you forgot to mention how CCP deliberately changed production requirements for ships in the specific groups you are pointing out.
You seem to also have completely abandoned the idea of Capital ship inflation, I thought that was a staple for your argument.
The fact remains, that everything from Modules, ammo, T2 and T3 goods have all decreased in price. Faction and DED has been decimated. Zyd, Mega, Morph all decimated. The build formulas were changed during Tiericide, and we are still seeing the effects of "Mineraless Mining" where miners simply compress their ores and sell that instead of refining.
You cannot argue with CCP's own numbers, own stats, own graphs and then turn around and point to them for support. You didn't even watch your own video. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4996
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Posted - 2015.04.21 04:05:13 -
[400] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Is 28T not the number after sinks? Sure banned accounts and people quitting aren't accounted for, but it's pretty close to the stats we were given a few years ago (http://blog.beyondreality.se/ISK-faucets-sinks).
Total production is around 2.5Q per year, total destruction around 0.75Q per year. That 28T per month (0.3Q per year) is probably the liquid ISK added after sinks but not considering accounts that go long-term inactive; 56M per subscribed account sounds pretty believable as an average.
Personally I am surprised PLEX haven't gone higher with how stable 0.0 has been for such a long time. Or, more specifically, I'm surprised that ISK as a currency hasn't devalued considerably.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
116
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Posted - 2015.04.21 15:21:38 -
[401] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Total production is around 2.5Q per year, total destruction around 0.75Q per year.
Production is not what you need to look at, if you wish to understand these inflows.
Ideally, this ISK has to be matched to resources, on a monthly basis, that are either mined or obtained otherwise through different means, such as salvaging.
I emphasise the word resources.
CONCORD here acts as a universal bank, essentially expanding credit, and when everyone gets a loan they want, we know what happens to asset prices next.
This topic will keep coming up with ever-greater intensity, as ISK accumulation grows with there being no safety measures in place, such as a Progressive tax, meaning we can end up with major disruptions even in the most liquid of commodities and resources - as can already be observed in plex.
A flat transaction/broker's fee is helpless in averting disaster.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Did you even watch your own video?
Isn't my video, and it was posted on the topic of plex prices.
Quote:Trit might have gone up 300% since game start, but I guess you can't guess where Zyd, or Mega or the high ends sans Nox has gone?
You're telling me this?
And yet, there has been a net increase in everything Tech 1. Should I spill the beans what will happen again on April 28th?
Quote:Bet you forgot to mention how CCP deliberately changed production requirements for ships in the specific groups you are pointing out.
It doesn't matter for the end user what are the causes of the increase in price.
No one will remember these new Null ore changes six months from now, and increased cost will stay with us forever.
Quote:You cannot argue with CCP's own numbers, own stats, own graphs and then turn around and point to them for support. You didn't even watch your own video.
As much as I like the fact that they've kept this whole Colossal from collapsing catastrophically over the years, there has been great inflation in the price of minerals, and consequently all Tech 1 hulls. Mind you, certain amount of inflation is required for healthy economic growth.
If the whole of Tech 1 is a non-factor to you, then do continue doing the thing that you seem to understand best - 0.01 ISKing Deadspace loot.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Priest Amarr
Temple's Gate
0
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Posted - 2015.04.21 16:23:38 -
[402] - Quote
There is a misconception about inflation which actually was created by real economists on the purpose of confusing masses about it's real effects. The real measurement of inflation can't be made through some sort of index or product baskets. They only want you to believe it so the the numbers can be adjusted (manipulated) at will.
Inflation is about the size of the liquid injected into an economy out of thin air. This doesn't necessarily mean an increase to low end product prices because in most cases majorities purchasing power doesn't increase. In other terms only the top tier (of people/players) benefit from such liquidity. Look at the real world examples: While the housing market was crashing (due to lack of liquidity for middle class) price of prime locations was increasing. Look at the fine arts market. Ten years ago 100mil was a big deal, today 200mil seems like business as usual. The price of high quality food goes up, the price of junk food goes down. The price of high end clothing increases way above official inflation, the price of low end clothing decreases. One may argue the price increase of luxury goods is irrelevant but in reality it creates an enormous gap between rich and poor, and put's many things out of the reach of middle class. This is an affect of hidden inflation.
Same happens in Eve. The trillions of isk sitting in some accounts won't affect the low end market. Their isk won't create a real demand for majority of goods, but the affects of inflation (hence their bigger than ever wallet sizes) will put a pressure on plex market. Because plex is the only in game commodity that has real convertibility. Compared to ships, modules and even BPO's, plex is an actual alternative to liquid isk. Therefore richer top tier gets, more demand they create for plex. Or let me put it this way, richer they get, more easily they take the control of the market and set the prices at will.
These things were argued 7-8 years ago and there was no plex back then. I remember CCP hiring and economist and making a big deal out of it. From the very beginning they knew the inflationary nature of Eve economy yet they had no choice but allow it to go on since they didn't want to cripple the growth of this (experimental) virtual economy. The affects of in game inflation is not very visible to casual player and only becomes apparent when you want to buy plex, or finance your operations for competing with other alliances, so it's not a big deal for CCP.
It's a big deal for some people though, because it makes the competition with top tier more and more impossible every passing day. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
117
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Posted - 2015.04.21 18:02:50 -
[403] - Quote
ISK:plex:AUR exchange rate is about to see some changes - http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/67122/1/AUR.png
Sauce: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/aurum-package-changes/
The difference is 15% between direct AUR purchases and plex exchange rate.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
124
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Posted - 2015.04.22 16:12:33 -
[404] - Quote
It would seem the anticipation & deployment of the SKINs system has sparked a healthy impulsive move back to 1b ISK - http://i.imgur.com/eoJmOTj.png
Levels to watch out for: 866 mln, 897 mln and of course the prize itself.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ship-customization-time-to-show-some-skin/
With the SKINs system being received generally positively, with it being fully detailed and reviewed now, and previous BPC collection temporarily inaccessible on the NEX - all points the capsuleers are stocking up on plex, in order to exchange for the either personal, or entrepreneural goals in mind, on the AURUM Store come April 28th, which will see an additional 130 New Ship SKINs, together with the previous batch of around one hundred.
The Power of Two promotion also seems to be making a come back- http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/33btmr/psa_power_of_two_seems_to_be_back_o/
Interesting, interesting times.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
165
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Posted - 2015.04.25 02:00:45 -
[405] - Quote
Curious.
There is some sort of curious formation developing in the price of PLEX... Following the fundamental change back in Nov 2014, PLEX topped short of 1bn mark, and currently the market appears to be carving out a strange right shoulder looking thingy - http://i.imgur.com/1IiUUA4.png
Outward perspective can help with things - http://i.imgur.com/GHYKQxh.png
It would be most unfortunate for everyone involved, were that to happen.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Magnius Dark
Terpene Conglomerate
2
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Posted - 2015.04.25 10:43:54 -
[406] - Quote
Do you guys think that people will stop buying plexes and the price of an PLEX will rise up (alot) And the market will slow down? And that will also men that this game will be grind to plex or just not free to play. What do you think? |
Coelomate Tian
The Suicide Kings Black Legion.
1
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Posted - 2015.04.25 16:04:45 -
[407] - Quote
SKINs will be a huge new pool of demand for PLEX. Because of EVE's complex ecosystem, you don't need to be willing to buy SKINs for money to get them - you just have to pair people willing to buy isk for money (purchasing then selling PLEX) with people willing to spend isk for SKINs (using isk to buy PLEX to convert to aurum, or just using isk to buy SKINs off the market if somebody else has already done the work).
This gives PLEX three extremely valuable intrinsic uses:
(1) Gametime (subscription or multi-character) (2) Asset with fiat currency tether / hedge against inflation (reasonable to assume 10 PLEX now and 10 PLEX in the future will hold similar purchasing power, less reasonable to assume that of most in-game items or currencies) (3) Converting to Aurum to purchase SKINs (and to a lesser extent clothing)
Of course speculation, manipulation, scamming, honorable PLEX tank, and other uses contribute to the picture too. And if speculation in the past has been hard enough, there may be stockpiled PLEX to meet the demand for Aurum, at least initially. So PLEX prices might not double tomorrow, but the SKIN system gives me more reason to believe PLEX will at least remain "expensive" if not spike in value. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
167
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Posted - 2015.04.25 16:15:28 -
[408] - Quote
Only one assumption clouds this judgment - that the SKINs will be selling at the PLEX exchange rate.
Purchasing AURUM directly already puts the seller at an advantage by at least 15%, which is the average AUR per $ difference between these two methods. We will labour very hard indeed to undermine even the AURUM sellers, with our mountains of supply.
Current exchange rate stands at 242k vs 210k ISK per 1 AURUM.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Coelomate Tian
The Suicide Kings Black Legion.
1
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Posted - 2015.04.25 16:28:48 -
[409] - Quote
Good point. There will be a huge difference between the 'rate' of existing skinned ship SKINs (stockpiles, as you note, will be huge) and new SKINs (which must start life as Aurum before coming into existence Tuesday). It will also be interesting to see if certain new SKINs are popular can command a temporary premium to the PLEX/isk/Aurum rate - I'm going to try and be online arbitraging like a crazy person if opportunities pop up soon after the patch. |
Suur Ala
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.04.26 16:15:00 -
[410] - Quote
Sorry to be a little off-topic, but what tool is that and how is it pulling market history from that far back? Thanks in advance! |
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
175
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Posted - 2015.04.26 17:34:09 -
[411] - Quote
Suur Ala wrote:Sorry to be a little off-topic, but what tool is that and how is it pulling market history from that far back? Thanks in advance!
The charting is provided by the https://element-43.com web-site using data from CREST.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Suur Ala
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2015.04.26 19:39:57 -
[412] - Quote
Thanks! |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
199
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Posted - 2015.04.29 04:17:27 -
[413] - Quote
The price has retraced 50% of the fall from the 952 mil top back in Nov of 2014.
There's still time and room to get your supers SKINs and sell them at 100-150% mark-up.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Jori McKie
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
235
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Posted - 2015.04.29 09:21:51 -
[414] - Quote
PLEX will rise until EVE population is more or less saturated with SKINS with several dips in between.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
200
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Posted - 2015.04.29 15:22:22 -
[415] - Quote
Thank you, captain McKie.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Jori McKie
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
236
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Posted - 2015.04.29 15:51:40 -
[416] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Thank you, captain McKie.
Someone has to state the obvious ;)
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
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Angelica Everstar
138
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Posted - 2015.04.29 15:52:24 -
[417] - Quote
Well... there is likely a sale and soon to be dev blog that is going to affect PLEX a fair bit :)
§ Any typos, bad spelling or grammar found, are yours to keepGäó
¢ Please support PLEX for GOOD for Nepal !
¦Æ Bonds: Current AE07 1 Trillion // Total : 2+ Trillon ISK
@EveEntrepreneur
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
202
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Posted - 2015.04.30 17:49:43 -
[418] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/10-discount-on-all-plex-sales/
Quote:We are happy to announce that over the course of the weekend, the EVE Community can enjoy a 10% discount on all PLEX sales!
Whether you're looking to pick up that sought after ship skin, activate multiple character training, or reactivate an account for yourself or a wingman, there's never been a better time to pick up a PLEX.
The right shoulder is coming along, nicely - http://i.imgur.com/GHYKQxh.png
a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ CCP gib shorts pls
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Koniforous
Tauren Transit
239
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Posted - 2015.04.30 19:08:30 -
[419] - Quote
Gank, where do you see plex prices at in December? Based on your graphing, and also in separate based on your intuition? I'm guessing this will be a temporary damper to the price rise and when its done plex will recover quickly to slightly below 900mil, and achieve ~1bil by December.
Edit: How do plex for goods affect the price of plex? Anyone know? I've never bothered to investigate. I would think it would increase price, and if ccp gets approval for the Nepal plex for good prices could retrace much fast....
TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending
TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
[TAUTX: Weekly Lotteries][3]
[TAUTX: 3rd Party Services][4]
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
202
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Posted - 2015.04.30 20:01:22 -
[420] - Quote
Seven hundred mil this coming Summer, provided the expansions CCP are planning to put out are a success.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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