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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.02 15:06:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Pick Me
anyway I will not run a suspect program on a production machine.
It's only a "suspect program" if it has exhibited suspicious behavior or if there is other evidence suggesting that the program may be malware. In the absence of any such evidence the program is merely "unverified as secure", not "suspect".
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emepror
Gallente
Flying Spaghetti Monsterz
Serenus Letum
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Posted - 2006.10.02 19:58:00 -
[32]
i dont get it what do i do?
i put the skills in found the bpo put the me in and there is nothing else to do
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Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.02 22:25:00 -
[33]
The purpose of the program is to give you an idea how much ISK you'll save by researching the BPO to a certain ME. What more were you hoping for?
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
NiBorg
Dominus Nihil EVE
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Posted - 2006.10.02 23:36:00 -
[34]
Fantastic tool. Is it safe to assume that by the addition of the skills calc along with the currently 0 time research you will be introducing research times? If so it would be nice to have a check box to differentiate between NPC stations and POSÆs along with a ôfrom ME to MEö time calculation. As it is right now itÆs a huge time saver, a few small additions including the possibility of recursive costs on sub components would make it spot on for anything needed that I can come up with.
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Lab Technician071548
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Posted - 2006.10.03 00:04:00 -
[35]
I would like to be able to compare the mineral savings on two levels of ME on the same BPO.
So, essentially, there would be two parts to the window that would allow me to show the requirements at each of two different ME levels.
This is a really great tool and hopefully it will prevent so much wasted lab time and reduce the waiting lines in empire for those BPOs you don't want to risk in 0.0.
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Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.03 04:08:00 -
[36]
I need a suggestion for how to handle the cost generating routine for tech 1 equipment used in t2 production. Should the cost be equal to the production cost on an unresearched BPO manufactured with perfect skills (namely Production Efficiency 5?) Another option is to allow the user to set that item's BPO's ME and have that saved in the matprices file, it all depends on what you guys request. :)
Sorry for the lack of updates, I've taken a short break from working on this program so I could make some progress on the EVE HW2 Mod, but I do expect to get some programming done tonight.
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
NiBorg
Dominus Nihil EVE
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Posted - 2006.10.03 06:33:00 -
[37]
Perhaps an inventory screen on the backside for owned BP's allowing storage of ME levels with a check filter for the front side. This would also allow for simpler calculations when figuring out a ôfrom toö time frame option. If itÆs possible it might be a good idea to set that info in a separate file so as to reduce any chance of corruption with changes to the main data file. Personally I'd rather have to reinput mineral prices then have to reinput dozens or hundreds of BPO stats. Another addition would be a very small routine to take the numbers off the front side and use the pop up screen like you have for the graph and make one for production numbers. Select your BP, right click and have a popup asking X quantity which multiplies out the mineral needs and costs by X value. Obviously you could just grab a calculator but it would make it quicker to eyeball inventories. Just a thought. 
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Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.03 21:26:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Zatch on 03/10/2006 21:27:25
Thanks again for all of the suggestions! Also thanks to Jacqueline Skouris for the kind donation.
I have released version 1.3.3 of the program, changes include:
* "Next Improvement" field may now be toggled (since the lag is annoying.)
* Metallurgy and Production Efficiency now appropriately affect ML Research Time and production costs.
* Research time is now displayed in the Analysis frame.
* Bugfix: Some tech 2 ships/items were displaying negative requirements on some of the minerals, these minerals are no longer displayed (they don't show up ingame either.)
Also, a complete list of the current planned changes:
1) Implement a more advanced suggestion feature (beyond the simple "IdealML" value) that, given a threshold, suggest a more practical ML to reach (where you get a substantial wastage reduction without needing to research an extra 100 ML just to beat the curve and remove that 1 last Tritanium...)
2) Expand the functionality of the Graph window to allow interaction such as scaling/zooming.
3) Create another graph, this one of ME versus ISK wastage. Include a modifiable threshold value that will graphically indicate where the wastage reduction per ME drops below a certain point (to help determine a "reasonable" ME.)
4) Auto-pricing of T1 components in T2 production.
5) Ability to break down T2 construction components into their raw materials.
6) Breakpoint display on wastage graph (aka improvement points.)
7) NPC versus POS research times (POS research speed multiplier.)
8) Popup ME-to-ME calculation (e.g. ME25 to ME55, display research time as well as savings between these two points.)
9) Productivity Level calculations (maybe.)
10) Save previous ME values for owned blueprints (e.g. provide a checkbox "Own" next to the BPO name, serving as a 'save this BPO' toggle.)
11) Multi-run readout (show mineral usage for multiple runs of the same BPO.)
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
Akbar Jafarr
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Posted - 2006.10.03 22:02:00 -
[39]
Great job man! This thing is nice..but...am I dumb? I cant find the graph button.
Also, for finding the BPO- I would strongly suggest having a checkbox "Include faction parts?" They dont release faction BPO, although a fraction of eve-ites WILL see one at one point.
Being able to set minerals prices would be great as well.
and then, if you want to completely replace battleclinic's eve building tool, you can have it remember BPOs that I have.
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Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.03 23:24:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Zatch on 03/10/2006 23:29:35
You can set mineral prices. Just type in the value and hit enter.
Also, right clicking on a material name will provide a context menu with the graphing option.
Faction BPOs aren't released, but BPCs are. I'll get to work on allowing you to toggle them, but it's going to take a while since that involves actually looking at each of the 2339 legal blueprints and then manually recoding them (I wrote other programs to parse the files released in the latest Data Export, to save me from a lot of repetitive work.)
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
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Lab Technician071548
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Posted - 2006.10.04 17:27:00 -
[41]
I can kind of narrow down what I was suggesting earlier now that I have made far more use of the tool.
It really drives home to your planned change number 1: what is the next "reasonable" level to research to.
Here are some thoughts that may help you refine the tool.
The reason why I asked for an additional window was so that I could compare the relative mienral savings at one leve of ME versus another. This same thing could be accomplished by adding an additional column of waste or savings indication that was set to a different ME level. The idea being that I can see the value of going from, say, 69 to 109 and, perhaps, learning that there's no additional savings beyond 83.
The thought process I find myself using as I use the tool as it is goes something like this:
OK, here's a BPO. I look it up with the handy search feature and select it from the drop down. I notice that it is optimal at, say, 732. However, I don't really want to mess with tying up a research slot for, say, an indicated 9 days and 3 hours (these numbers are all from the nether regions). So I plug in the magic 19. It says I get an improvement at 20. So I plug in 20. It says I can get an improvement at 21. Arghhhh, I plug in 21, etc.
So it dawns on me, that a handy column would indicate the ME you can improve to before there is a break and what the level after the break is. That would prevent a lot of incremental entry.
For example, let's say that a BPO improves at 1, 2, 4, 9, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 60, 159, 472, and maxes out at 112.
It would be nice if upon trying 19, and seeing 21, that when I plugged 21 in, it would tell me that the next break in the action is at 27 followed by 60.
It might be that the median number (the center number in a list of sorted numbers) is a good indicator of where to start or, even, where to end.
It also might be nice to know that, for instance, you have to pay 40,000 more ISK to research to ME level X and that you would have to manufacture 20,000 widgets at the same price to recoup the value of the savings (e.g., 1 trit per unit at 2 isk each).
Just some thoughts. Great tool, and thanks again.
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Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.04 17:47:00 -
[42]
Let me make sure I'm understanding your suggestion properly before I start coding it:
When you say "break" you mean the next improvement where a subsequent ME increase will not affect wastage? E.g. the BPO improves at 1,2,3,4,12, then a breakpoint would be at 4 since there's a "gap" in the ME improvement levels?
I'm thinking about changing the internal array structure and re-sorting the BPOs, to improve performance, and I'm keeping any suggestions related to "improvement levels" in mind while I rethink the structure. Hopefully that means the program will run smooth even with the Improve At... column enabled.
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
Lab Technician071548
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Posted - 2006.10.04 21:08:00 -
[43]
That's exactly what I'm thinking.
Having put together several batches of research across accounts together by using the tool, I find myself looking for a sweet spot. it is often, but not always, at the end of a run of incremental improvements or not long thereafter.
I also have been observing that the median is a good startnig place. :)
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Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.04 21:19:00 -
[44]
Tritanium has no breakpoints at any reasonable level, on most blueprints.
What you're asking for is a tool that goes beyond presenting data, and moves into an expert system for deciding what that data means. It'd be very tricky to code enough intelligence into the tool to have it select optimal ME levels for you... and, I suspect, whatever system was coded in would not match my own preferences most of the time anyway.
The information it already provides is enough for you to make those decisions on your own... less than a minute of trial and error will get me results I'm happy with on any BP I've played with. The job of this program, or any program, ought to be to make it easier for people to make good decisions, not to tell them what those good decisions are.
One thing that might make things a little easier, though, is keyboard shortcuts for +1 and -1 ME. Cursor keys would be ideal. Maybe right/left +1/-1, up/down +10/-10?
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Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.10.05 01:27:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Audrea on 05/10/2006 01:31:38
Great tool there! wanted one ever since I learned what is bpo
Couple suggestions:
- BUG: When setting price of the minerals when trying various ME levels, and then cahnging shiptype, the price being reset. Instead, the last values used should be saved.
- Add a PE research functionality as well, would be useful to see.
- About the breakdowns of ME: Make a button which calls a sub window, and asks for input there, such as to what delta the player wants to reach: For example, say I want it to find for me the ME, where the diffrence between each level for Megathron BPO would be 300,000 ISK. This way everyone defines his own breakpoint, and its easy to program such algorithm.
- Seems that there is problem with capital ships: it doesnt have the costs of capital components to calculate cost of the ship. I would really love it if you could add in a way to set what ME to use for various components, to calculate the final product cost. and then of course it would use the mineral costs I am using :)
- Last but not least: Compile it for Linux too pls!
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Save Deimos!
All posts are my personal opinions.  |
Lab Technician071548
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Posted - 2006.10.05 03:40:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Guurzak
Tritanium has no breakpoints at any reasonable level, on most blueprints.
What you're asking for is a tool that goes beyond presenting data, and moves into an expert system for deciding what that data means. It'd be very tricky to code enough intelligence into the tool to have it select optimal ME levels for you... and, I suspect, whatever system was coded in would not match my own preferences most of the time anyway.
The information it already provides is enough for you to make those decisions on your own... less than a minute of trial and error will get me results I'm happy with on any BP I've played with. The job of this program, or any program, ought to be to make it easier for people to make good decisions, not to tell them what those good decisions are. [...]
Rubbish. I'm asking for improved search tools.
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Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.05 07:06:00 -
[47]
@Audrea: All of your suggestions are currently planned features, with the exception of compiling it for Linux. The program is written in Visual Basic so, unless you're running a Windows emulator, you won't be able to run the program (it can only be compiled for Win32/64 systems.)
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
UK Glum
Gallente
Azure Horizon
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Posted - 2006.10.05 14:27:00 -
[48]
Edited by: UK Glum on 05/10/2006 14:28:34
great tool,
what I'd like to see is a facility to enter the cost of renting the lab. that way we can determine the actual ISK cost of going from one ME level to another ME level. It only has to be a value. no need for look ups and stuff.
for example, the lab costs 1000 isk, plus 1000 isk an hour. A megathron takes 16 hours of research per ME level. thats 17,000 isk for 1 ME, 33k for 2 ME etc. Compare that with the saving of minerals going from ME 20 to to ME 21, which is about 16,000 isk. So its clear thats it not cost effective to increase the ME of the BPO
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Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.05 20:10:00 -
[49]
It is if you manufacture the ship twice. :)
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll get right on it.
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
Lab Technician071548
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Posted - 2006.10.06 14:36:00 -
[50]
bump/sticky?
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MORRS
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Posted - 2006.10.06 20:11:00 -
[51]
Very Nice Tool!
Lately, working with capital component and capital ship BPO's where the pe is very important especially when the PE takes so long to achieve ie: modules 3.5 days per pe, ships 30 to 90 days per PE. I am very interested in a PE tool integrated into your program if possible. Curently, I have to do the PE and hope to get something out of it.
Would be real nice to see if I took, say, my cargo bay bpo to PE:20 or 30 to see what my manufacturing time would be on 100 peices. Or if I took my Fighter BPO to PE:10 or PE:20 what the result would be. Wonder what an Obelisk or Thanatos production time would be at PE:1. Should I spend 45 days doing it to PE:1?
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Lab Technician071548
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Posted - 2006.10.07 19:04:00 -
[52]
1.3.3 was not updating next improvement level for me (yes the box was checked)
Anybody else having this problem or should I try a reinstall?
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Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.07 21:08:00 -
[53]
That's odd, it works fine on my computer. Are you sure you hadn't already researched past the BPO's IdealML? Also, did you enter a new ML after checking the box? It won't update immediately when you check the box (I'll change that in the next version.)
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.08 04:57:00 -
[54]
Version 1.3.4 is now available, it now supports saving your BPs and the search box should now clear the screen instead of leaving the last BP's stats viewable.
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
Kaaii
Caldari
Equilibrium LLC
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2006.10.08 11:10:00 -
[55]
I just want to say what a fantastic tool this is..
Good job, and thank you very much!
Kaaii
"..Red Alliance aren't better pilots...just better exploiters..."
Trading 101 |
Spektral
Caldari
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.08 13:00:00 -
[56]
A tool of this quality and usefulness should be appreciated by the community. I would suggest we start submitting donations to his His Supreme Code Monkeyness Zatch!!!
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Dr Mary
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Posted - 2006.10.09 12:09:00 -
[57]
Very nice and useful tool. Thank you Zatch!
Would be nice if program could save which blueprints you have and at whihc ML and PL.
Cheers!
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Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.09 15:09:00 -
[58]
It does save which blueprints you have and their ML, just not their PL yet.
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
Zatch
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.10.09 19:07:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Zatch on 09/10/2006 19:08:23
Just a small update: the version I'm working on right now has an auto-pricing feature, and I'm working on getting the "breakdown" feature to work. Also I'll probably include an option to display only BPOs you own, in the list.
Note that the auto-pricing feature works with any item that has a blueprint. That means t1 modules, capital ship construction parts, etc...
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Creator of the standalone EVE Material Level Calculator MLCalc |
test12346567
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Posted - 2006.10.09 23:42:00 -
[60]
cheers for a great tool Zatch
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