Originally by: Zeveron

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Originally by: Sprak

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Originally by: Roxanna Kell

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Sunday 08 October 2006
[90 battleships destroyed] [3 battleships lost]

Saturday 07 October 2006
[47 battleships destroyed] [12 battleships lost]

Friday 06 October 2006
[76 battleships destroyed] [1 battleship lost]

Thursday 05 October 2006
[28 battleships destroyed] [2 battleships lost]

Wednesday 04 October 2006
[23 battleships destroyed] [4 battleships lost]

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Add 3 carriers to that count and countless fighters [approximately the cost of 1 BC each]

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This numbers are 99% accurate.
But there are some further points to discuss.
Node crashed about 10 times during these engagments (except at the late one b4 dt on saturday, where the 12 BoB losses occured)

At that engagment combined forces of ASCN/AXE/POS had better kill/loss ratio than BoB.
Check the killboards for forther intel (7.10.2006 between 05:55:00 - 07:41:00 according to AXE killboard).

The most BSs BoB killed on the rest of the engagments were easy kills, when the node crashed and the won the login race. I say most not all, not to get flamed here.
I am not saying that these are not kills and they have to be removed from the killboards, but u cannot get killed from some1 who is currently login and not loaded yet.

So that explains the big diference on the kill/loss ratio on the ASCN side.

BoB is maybe the best PvP alliance in the game.
They have supperior engagment tactics, great FCs and they had won the most of the engagments anyway, even if the node didnt crashed.

But claiming 70 and 50 and 30 BSs kills bcs u guys won the login race is a bit odd.
Again u would have won those engagments anyway, but we have killed some BSs of urs too.
70 kills and 0 loss is a fact only bcs the node crashed.

I know ppl who tried to login hours later after the node crashed while jumping in, only to get ganged at the gate.
I know ppl who were at the pos b4 the node crash and after the node crash they login at the gate, only to get ganged.

So u got the kills and thats fair enough.
I am trying only to explain why we didnt get ours as well here :-)

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Originally by: Tadis

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Lot harder to defend against a dozen small roaming fleets with objectives and planned withdrawal strategies than it is a singular system. I know which I'd prefer to co-ordinate defence against anyhow ^^

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Edited by: Butter Dog on 09/10/2006 12:12:22

Originally by: Auman

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I understand your point and it's a good one. No one outside of ASCN knows how many losses they can really absorb. However, it's morale that will break them. It's very early days and it's great ASCN have been so aggresive, so we'll just have to see what happens over the next few months

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As they are WILLINGLY taking the fight to your space, I'd say it looks like they are enjoying themselves.

They have near unlimited resources to fund the war, they are learning, they are clearly having fun. If anything, their morale is probably better than before the war started. As I am sure yours is. Wars bring alliances together, and make them stronger, provided they are enjoying them which you both seem to be doing.

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Originally by: HostageTaker
The reason why we're winning the "login race" is because every single BoB player restarts and logs in after every node crash. Unlike most ASCN people and FCs telling them to stay logged off. [:roll:

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(While claiming that BoB use login-hack-tactics till a certain ASCN .wav file was made public)

You want to stop giving us "easy kills"? Tell your people to start logging in after node deaths and while you're at it, replace your FCs with more competent ones.

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Originally by: Zeveron

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Node crashed about 10 times during these engagments (except at the late one b4 dt on saturday, where the 12 BoB losses occured)

At that engagment combined forces of ASCN/AXE/POS had better kill/loss ratio than BoB.
Check the killboards for forther intel (7.10.2006 between 05:55:00 - 07:41:00 according to AXE killboard).

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Quote:

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As far as the 2 carriers lost during the small pos attack, well they didnt asked for help, when they asked we came and you hit the belts and the SSs :-)

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Originally by: Farjung

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Edited by: Farjung on 09/10/2006 13:00:08

Originally by: Zeveron

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Node crashed about 10 times during these engagments (except at the late one b4 dt on saturday, where the 12 BoB losses occured)

At that engagment combined forces of ASCN/AXE/POS had better kill/loss ratio than BoB.
Check the killboards for forther intel (7.10.2006 between 05:55:00 - 07:41:00 according to AXE killboard).

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During that period (well up until 07:55) according to the BoB killboard, in TPAR-G BoB killed 9 battleships, 7 frigates, and 2 carriers, and lost 11 battleships, 2 cruisers, 2 frigates and 1 hac.

A resounding victory for us? Hardly - but I'd still suggest we probably came out ahead. Not bad considering it was 25-30 of us attacking over a hundred of you.

Edit:

Quote:

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As far as the 2 carriers lost during the small pos attack, well they didnt asked for help, when they asked we came and you hit the belts and the SSs :-)

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If you're not going to include them in your total, please don't claim your total represents the "combined forces of ASCN/AXE/POS".

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Originally by: Zeveron

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Snip

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Originally by: Alasse Cuthalion

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Originally by: Zeveron

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Snip

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So basically what you're saying is that you can beat us with even numbers but you keep losing because of the lag?

If that's the case then why don't you only bring 50 people at a time and we'll do the same?

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Originally by: Rebellion

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Edited by: Rebellion on 09/10/2006 13:19:40
Regardless of whether ASCN succeed or fail in their TPAR-G assault, regardless of who loses the most ships in the end...

What matters is that ASCN (AXE and POS too btw) had the guts to take 130BS, POS and sundry and commit them fully to an attack of this magnitude.

They had the courage to take the risks and now they are already lightyears above all the other "PVP alliances" that initially used to whine at BoB for NOT attacking "big alliances like ASCN" in the past, and now when we do, whine about attacking a non-PVP alliance. You guys are really hard to please.

As far as it looks now, ASCN is more of a PVP alliance than a lot of the PVP alliances out there.

There is honor in the mere act of fighting in this war, and I will not begrudge any respect for ASCN even if they lose more than they should. Kudos to ASCN for the audacity of the assault on TPAR-G, and I hope we see more of the same aggressiveness (with better follow though next time).

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Originally by: Zeveron

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alot random talk

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Originally by: Sir JoJo

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Originally by: Zeveron

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alot random talk

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Listen dude. because half u fleet is out of range does not make numbers even.

either u fc ****** up or our did some smart.

learn from it and try and adapt a bit or hire some mercs to fc for u

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Originally by: Rebellion

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Edited by: Rebellion on 09/10/2006 13:19:40
Regardless of whether ASCN succeed or fail in their TPAR-G assault, regardless of who loses the most ships in the end...

What matters is that ASCN (AXE and POS too btw) had the guts to take 130BS, POS and sundry and commit them fully to an attack of this magnitude.

They had the courage to take the risks and now they are already lightyears above all the other "PVP alliances" that initially used to whine at BoB for NOT attacking "big alliances like ASCN" in the past, and now when we do, whine about attacking a non-PVP alliance. You guys are really hard to please.

As far as it looks now, ASCN is more of a PVP alliance than a lot of the PVP alliances out there.

There is honor in the mere act of fighting in this war, and I will not begrudge any respect for ASCN even if they lose more than they should. Kudos to ASCN for the audacity of the assault on TPAR-G, and I hope we see more of the same aggressiveness (with better follow though next time).

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Originally by: ElCoCo

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Is Cyvok playing lemmings with you guys(ASCN)?
How can you be so deluded to think you're even close to doing "good".

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Originally by: Sir Erighan

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Originally by: ElCoCo

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Is Cyvok playing lemmings with you guys(ASCN)?
How can you be so deluded to think you're even close to doing "good".

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"Good" is an opinion based on what? Are we losing more ships than them? Hell yes. Are we taking an offensive approach? Hell yes. Are we turtling in our home space? Hell no. Are we learning from past mistakes? Most of us are. Are we getting stronger? Hope so.

Most of the outside community is focusing too much on the kill boards. Yes, we lose more battleships than they do, but how many of them are T2 fitting compared to BoBs? Yes, we lose more T1 ships like frigates and cruisers, but how many interceptors, HACs and other T2 ships do they lose? You can check the KB for previous weeks and see that we come out on top for most of those ships classes.

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Originally by: Zeveron

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If you include that MC Astarte in the loss ratio it would be more accurate, but i dont wana heat up the discussion here again.

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Originally by: Neurotic cat teh nub from the comments of his loss

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I was in J-8, did a little patrol to see if the asshats were about. Took a trip to TPAR to play tourist. Local jumped from 95 to over 200. I found an entire wall of red at one of the gates. Didn't last long after that. :)

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Originally by: Sir Erighan

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Of course we don't want lose ships. I was only pointing some of the "good" points that others may not have noticed. I can't speak about the push on TPAR that just happened because I wasn't there, but I'm sure it was the same old story. We attacked, lagged, relogged/whatever, and were picked off one at a time when we logged back on, came out of warp or came out of cloak from jumping through a gate.

Or did it happen differently this time? If it did happen differently, then better luck to us next time.

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Originally by: Sir Erighan

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Edited by: Sir Erighan on 09/10/2006 13:53:46

Originally by: Rebellion

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Edited by: Rebellion on 09/10/2006 13:19:40
Regardless of whether ASCN succeed or fail in their TPAR-G assault, regardless of who loses the most ships in the end...

What matters is that ASCN (AXE and POS too btw) had the guts to take 130BS, POS and sundry and commit them fully to an attack of this magnitude.

They had the courage to take the risks and now they are already lightyears above all the other "PVP alliances" that initially used to whine at BoB for NOT attacking "big alliances like ASCN" in the past, and now when we do, whine about attacking a non-PVP alliance. You guys are really hard to please.

As far as it looks now, ASCN is more of a PVP alliance than a lot of the PVP alliances out there.

There is honor in the mere act of fighting in this war, and I will not begrudge any respect for ASCN even if they lose more than they should. Kudos to ASCN for the audacity of the assault on TPAR-G, and I hope we see more of the same aggressiveness (with better follow though next time).

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Thanks for the kind words Rebellion. I, as most of ASCN, share the mutual respect for your abilities in war.

To everyone else, I do want to clarify a few things. Yes, weÆve lost a crap load of ships. Yes, BoB is kicking our butts in head-to-head fleet battles. No one is going to deny those facts. However, BoB is not beating us because of the strength of their guns. They are beating us because of ASCNÆs lack of experience in fleet ops during the ôcurrent state of the gameö. BoB knows how to handle the lag and node crashes and have been, unfortunately for us, been able to take advantage the situation.

Almost all of our losses have been because we tried jumping into their blobàlagged, crashed, relogged and were picked off 1, 2, 3 at a time. Most of our kills and fun have been from smaller engagements and weÆve done really well in those situations. WeÆve been able to compete with them on a smaller scale, but have not been able to beat them when large blobs were involved.

WeÆre still learning what the system can handle and what it canÆt. The past week has taught us a lot. The learning curve was steep and we paid for it in the price of ships, but weÆre still very well in this war.

Thanks

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Originally by: Trooper B99

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Originally by: Zeveron

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If you include that MC Astarte in the loss ratio it would be more accurate, but i dont wana heat up the discussion here again.

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I suggest you don't bother to include it as Neurotic cat was there solo unless you want to claim that the MC was there with a fleet of one.

Originally by: Neurotic cat teh nub from the comments of his loss

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I was in J-8, did a little patrol to see if the asshats were about. Took a trip to TPAR to play tourist. Local jumped from 95 to over 200. I found an entire wall of red at one of the gates. Didn't last long after that. :)

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Originally by: Zeveron

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Originally by: Trooper B99

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Originally by: Zeveron

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If you include that MC Astarte in the loss ratio it would be more accurate, but i dont wana heat up the discussion here again.

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I suggest you don't bother to include it as Neurotic cat was there solo unless you want to claim that the MC was there with a fleet of one.

Originally by: Neurotic cat teh nub from the comments of his loss

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I was in J-8, did a little patrol to see if the asshats were about. Took a trip to TPAR to play tourist. Local jumped from 95 to over 200. I found an entire wall of red at one of the gates. Didn't last long after that. :)

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yeah, was a bit strange watching a lonely fleet cmd ship at the gate.
Well i have to say he warped/jumped there on his own, after bob gang warped off.

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