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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Disdaine
182
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Posted - 2012.01.08 05:40:00 -
[331] - Quote
Andski wrote: tell me more about risk aversion, NPC corp forum alt poster
Are you suggesting there's a risk in posting with my main?
You and your friends gonna dec me?
Risky.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1503
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Posted - 2012.01.08 05:42:00 -
[332] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Andski wrote: tell me more about risk aversion, NPC corp forum alt poster
Are you suggesting there's a risk in posting with my main? You and your friends gonna dec me? Risky.
No, but by posting with an alt you're showing an aversion to a perceived risk, regardless of its existence. |
Disdaine
182
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Posted - 2012.01.08 05:56:00 -
[333] - Quote
Andski wrote: No, but by posting with an alt you're showing an aversion to a perceived risk, regardless of its existence.
So by posting with an alt I'm minimising potential risk?
If only there was a risk minimising mechanic for implants.
Something like jump clones or not flying, oops, I meant not wearing what you can't afford to lose.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1503
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Posted - 2012.01.08 05:57:00 -
[334] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Andski wrote: No, but by posting with an alt you're showing an aversion to a perceived risk, regardless of its existence.
So by posting with an alt I'm minimising potential risk? If only there was a risk minimising mechanic for implants. Something like jump clones or not flying, oops, I meant not wearing what you can't afford to lose.
lol you're dumb, all of this was discussed, go roll another NPC corp alt and perhaps put it in a vanity alliance along with the monocle lmao |
Disdaine
182
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Posted - 2012.01.08 06:28:00 -
[335] - Quote
Andski wrote: lol you're dumb, all of this was discussed, go roll another NPC corp alt and perhaps put it in a vanity alliance along with the monocle lmao
Don't be like that broski. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1050
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 07:16:00 -
[336] - Quote
Not supporting and obvious Mittens troll backed by remunerated test-goon slave and pet labor. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1503
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 07:21:00 -
[337] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Not supporting and obvious Mittens troll backed by remunerated test-goon slave and pet labor.
i wish i was a ~free spirit~ like you
oh wait, no, i don't want to be a peasant lmao |
Pietr Serras
Point of No Return Waterboard
3
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Posted - 2012.01.08 08:14:00 -
[338] - Quote
Andski wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:Not supporting and obvious Mittens troll backed by remunerated test-goon slave and pet labor. i wish i was a ~free spirit~ like you oh wait, no, i don't want to be a peasant lmao
lolwut? |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
36
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Posted - 2012.01.08 09:36:00 -
[339] - Quote
J Kunjeh wrote:Mars Theran wrote:J Kunjeh wrote:Mars Theran wrote: I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.
Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.
I agree, which is why I think we should also do away with skilling entirely and give everyone Level V skills on everything from day one. Pesky skill training restricts my game play. Uneccessary sarcasm. Also out of context. This isn't about training skills. It's about everyone having unrestricted training times and-importantly-alternative options for implants, while being able to play where-ever they may be, without having to worry about clone-jumping to Jita and flying 40 jumps into 0.0 just to get in a battle. Alternative example, clone-jumping to Jita and 2-1/2 hours later finding out your Corpmates need you in Stain to help them fight off an offensive by a Rival corp, and you in your civies. Another example: Playing for 6 months as a Pirate in Delve, while running basic hardwirings and having 19 and 20 respectively, in your current primary attributes. With Pod-a-day podding, who's going to fit 300 Million ISK in implants? So you're the arbiter of what is and is not appropriate sarcasm? Puleeez. If you don't want to lose your implants, don't use them...simple. Stop whining, there is no need to remove learning implants. They add meaningful choice to the game, which is a GOOD thing.
In relation to my posts, yes.
I use them and lose them, because I cannot afford to leave them out of my training regimen on the off-chance I'll get podded. That also means I don't generally take much in the way of risk in many cases; choosing instead, to stay in a POS shield, sit on a station, stick to highsec lanes, or not go anywhere without much intel.
Unfortunately, there are times I have not had the ability to mitigate risk to to circumstances, and then I usually have ended up taking a Billion ISK chance, including ship, fit, and implants getting my ass somewhere safe. Sure, I could have stayed in, but I really had to gtfo. WH's drive you nuts, and sometimes, 5 jumps to an exit 15 jumps into 0.0 is better than staying in one.
Frankly, I don't do that-wormholes-anymore, and I've gotten rid of that character, but it hasn't stopped me from considering that one less risk amongst all of them, would make this game a little easier to play.
Implants on killboards though; wow, that's more points for pods. Heck, that's gotta make a podkill worth as much as a faction BS now, in some cases. Awesome dude.
I'm sure someone's thinking that out there; even if they won't admit it.
Fact is, you don't really have a valid reason for arguing changes like this, or many others. It's not a mechanics issue, it's only mildly impacting on the economy, and it isn't really neccessary after the removal of static attributes, and introduction of remaps.
Lots of other things impact the economy, give more to make ISK off of, create dynamic change in much more noticeable fashion; and with only a few exceptions, nobody says anything about them, except maybe, "I want Moar!!"
edit: Also, I'm not out in 0.0, and have nothing to do with it yet, nor have I, wormholes aside. I just take the time to consider others before I formulate a response to many threads and posts within them.
post-edit: ..and meaningful choice, is not taking a Battleship fit with faction mods into 0.0 solo, when you really could. |
Neo160
S0utherN Comfort Controlled Chaos
4
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Posted - 2012.01.14 22:15:00 -
[340] - Quote
i could say lots of stuff about how restrictive learning implants are, but since most of you have already thoroughly and effectively explained that, I'll just say this:
+1 |
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Ms Twitch
Skunkwerx Manufacturing
4
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Posted - 2012.01.15 17:10:00 -
[341] - Quote
Let me see, the number of goons or friends of goons answering, they are obviously told there stupid mindless hoard that they needed to post.
I disagree about removing implants, it allow options. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1547
|
Posted - 2012.01.15 19:39:00 -
[342] - Quote
Ms Twitch wrote:Let me see, the number of goons or friends of goons answering, they are obviously told there stupid mindless hoard that they needed to post.
I disagree about removing implants, it allow options.
look how dumb and mad you are!!!!
thanks for branch btw m8 |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
216
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Posted - 2012.01.15 22:34:00 -
[343] - Quote
Andski wrote:Disdaine wrote:Eve is a game of consequences, if plugging in +5's limits your playstyle because you're risk averse then don't plug them in.
Risk vs reward.
Do not support. tell me more about risk aversion, NPC corp forum alt poster ban npc forum alts from csm forums
o/'\o |
Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
3
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Posted - 2012.01.17 16:59:00 -
[344] - Quote
Agree. Learning implants is the main reason why I don't want to leave high-sec. |
Goose99
681
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Posted - 2012.01.17 18:19:00 -
[345] - Quote
Jasdemi wrote:Agree. Learning implants is the main reason why I don't want to leave high-sec.
No, your risk aversion is the main reason you don't leave highsec. Btw, nice monocle. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1563
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 18:21:00 -
[346] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Jasdemi wrote:Agree. Learning implants is the main reason why I don't want to leave high-sec. No, your risk aversion is the main reason you don't leave highsec. Btw, nice monocle.
your risk aversion is the main reason you post with an alt laffeaux |
Disdaine
208
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Posted - 2012.01.18 01:28:00 -
[347] - Quote
Andski wrote: your risk aversion is the main reason you post with an alt laffeaux
Your risk aversion is the main reason you're in a 5000 strong nbsi alliance.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1568
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:03:00 -
[348] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Andski wrote: your risk aversion is the main reason you post with an alt laffeaux
Your risk aversion is the main reason you're in a 5000 strong nbsi alliance.
i'm just going to assume that you're some scrublord highsec incursion runner and lawl |
Mechatronicus Anihilus
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:22:00 -
[349] - Quote
Andski wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:
Its the point you make, not the toon you post with. Posting with an alt doesn't give your post less credence so long as you make a good argument and stick to the topic at hand.
wrong, forum alts are used by those who cannot stand behind their words.
Perhaps they are used by people who've had Goon gank squads sent after them for daring to disagree with the high and mighty Goons on the forums.
But you are the one who is quite wrong. Your logic is fail. 1+1 =2 regardless of whether I "stand behind it" on my main or quote it with an alt. That statement is correct no matter how many people call the person making it dumb. This applies to more complex arguments as well, such as the one at hand. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1574
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 18:35:00 -
[350] - Quote
Mechatronicus Anihilus wrote:Andski wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:
Its the point you make, not the toon you post with. Posting with an alt doesn't give your post less credence so long as you make a good argument and stick to the topic at hand.
wrong, forum alts are used by those who cannot stand behind their words. Perhaps they are used by people who've had Goon gank squads sent after them for daring to disagree with the high and mighty Goons on the forums.
you've foiled my plan!!!!!!!
Mechatronicus Anihilus wrote:But you are the one who is quite wrong. Your logic is fail. 1+1 =2 regardless of whether I "stand behind it" on my main or quote it with an alt. That statement is correct no matter how many people call the person making it dumb. This applies to more complex arguments as well, such as the one at hand.
Rolling a forum alt essentially makes you able to shitpost all over the Eve forums (short of CAOD if it's NPC) and if you start to gain a reputation as a terrible poster, you simply biomass and roll a new forum alt. If you roll a forum alt, it is either for this reason, or because you're dumb enough to believe that somebody will wardec you or send ~goon einsatzgruppen~ after you. It's tinfoil bullshit and you know it. |
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Mechatronicus Anihilus
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:52:00 -
[351] - Quote
Andski wrote:
Rolling a forum alt essentially makes you able to shitpost all over the Eve forums (short of CAOD if it's NPC) and if you start to gain a reputation as a terrible poster, you simply biomass and roll a new forum alt. If you roll a forum alt, it is either for this reason, or because you're dumb enough to believe that somebody will wardec you or send ~goon einsatzgruppen~ after you. It's tinfoil bullshit and you know it.
I count 2 "*****" and 1 "dumb" in the above. At this rate you are well on your way to cementing your reputation as a terrible poster. You will do better by acknowledging a good argument, and offering a better counter argument, instead of cursing and insulting other posters.
You could try to offer a counterargument to mine by explaining exactly why a correct statement becomes invalid depending on who makes it. But you cannot do this. Because you are wrong. And you know it.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1574
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:07:00 -
[352] - Quote
Mechatronicus Anihilus wrote:I count 2 "*****" and 1 "dumb" in the above. At this rate you are well on your way to cementing your reputation as a terrible poster. You will do better by acknowledging a good argument, and offering a better counter argument, instead of cursing and insulting other posters.
You could try to offer a counterargument to mine by explaining exactly why a correct statement becomes invalid depending on who makes it. But you cannot do this. Because you are wrong. And you know it.
tell me more about how an NPC corp alt's worthless opinion is "correct" or otherwise |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1574
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:14:00 -
[353] - Quote
I mean, really, by your alliance tag I can tell that you are a) primarily based out of nullsec, b) understand the logistics involved in living in nullsec and c) have to deal with jump clones. If you were posting with an NPC corp alt, those observations would not be immediately obvious and I'd assume you're just part of the crowd of aspies who truly and honestly believe that nullsec is a land of honey with zero risk, where people mine ABC (lol) in cynojammed systems with 300km of bubbles on every inbound gate. |
Iris Bravemount
Airkio Mining Corp Bloodbound.
23
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Posted - 2012.01.18 19:54:00 -
[354] - Quote
Didn't read every single post in here, but :
OP doesn't suggest the removal of all implants. Only the attribute enhancers, so that you would still have a death penalty when you lose other implants.
And I agree. Attributes add no fun to the game and only make people worry about them. As far as I am concerned, attributes can be entirely remove (including said implants and remaps).
Give every skill the same SP/hour rate.
Edit : Oh, and set JC timers to 1 hour or 2. This is also an unneeded annoyance. |
Mechatronicus Anihilus
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
2
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Posted - 2012.01.18 21:10:00 -
[355] - Quote
Andski wrote:I mean, really, by your alliance tag I can tell that you are a) primarily based out of nullsec, b) understand the logistics involved in living in nullsec and c) have to deal with jump clones. If you were posting with an NPC corp alt, those observations would not be immediately obvious and I'd assume you're just part of the crowd of aspies who truly and honestly believe that nullsec is a land of honey with zero risk, where people mine ABC (lol) in cynojammed systems with 300km of bubbles on every inbound gate.
Your observations about me are correct. I live and fight in null. This is a fact.
The observation that the removal of learning implants would eliminate most of the cost of dying for low sp null secers who fly without hardwiring is also correct. All that remains is the cost to upgrade the clone. This is also a fact.
Adding slot 1-5 hardwiring implants to the game would not contribute to the cost of dying for pilots who aren't going to use them. Look up mathematical proof of 0+0=0. This is also a fact.
It doesn't matter who makes the above statements. They are not opinions and so whether I or some nameless faceless forum alt makes them they are still correct statements.
The matter of opinion here is whether or not removal of learning implants is good for the game. I agree it's good for low sp t1-fit pvpers who fly without hardwiring. It's not inherently bad for pilots who use a lot of hardwiring. I'm not convinced it is good for the game, because it does remove most of the of risk/reward for losing/keeping a pod. I have yet to hear a good argument that this will result in many more players for Eve or significantly more pvp. The way Time Dilation is working in its current implementation I can predict a lot less fleet pvp in null, but that's another issue.
Will Eve really have a lot more PVP if learning implants are removed? I doubt it. If you map a training plan correctly you make 2610 sp/hour with 2 +4 implants (vs 2700 sp/hour-only 3.33% faster with 2 +5s). Most t2 fit battlecruisers cost more than 2 +4s, and a t2 fit bc really is a baseline for what is needed for competent nullsec pvp. So if a 40 million isk implant loss scares people from pvping in null, it should. They obviously can't afford it.
Pvping cheaply in lowsec and highsec and learning how to save your pod with the warpoff trick as you hit structure eliminates 90% of pod losses. People who cannot manage simple stuff like that are not going to succeed in epic fleet pvp just because the cost of losing implants has been removed. They will just welp and die and lose as much or more isk pvp'ing that way.
Mastery of game mechanics is what makes Eve cheap. If I can grind 200 mill isk/hour I'm not going to sweat a 100 mill clone loss. I will make that during a quick downtime between ops or roams. Someone who has trouble making 20 mill/hour is going to be hurt more by implant loss and they should.
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72inches
Jian Products Engineering Group Nulli Secunda
0
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Posted - 2012.01.19 02:13:00 -
[356] - Quote
Shaera Taam wrote: i secretly think the guys in my corp get a little rise out of it when they hear on TS that their only verified female corp-mate is 'flying naked'
i find the above quote to be of the most interesting read on this threadnought . . . . . . . although i support learning boosters, they would have to be seeded ofc |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1584
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 02:16:00 -
[357] - Quote
72inches wrote:Shaera Taam wrote: i secretly think the guys in my corp get a little rise out of it when they hear on TS that their only verified female corp-mate is 'flying naked' i find the above quote to be of the most interesting read on this threadnought . . . . . . . although i support learning boosters, they would have to be seeded ofc
this is so far from a threadnaught |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1584
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 03:38:00 -
[358] - Quote
I was reading the CSM minutes, and I found an interesting paragraph at page 20:
Quote:This [discussion about Rorquals' clone vat bays in regards to wormholes] was followed by a discussion about removing learning implants, to encourage more risk taking. This was generally unpopular with most of the CSM at first. The discussion turned towards clone costs, which were widely agreed to be too high for high SP characters, which discourages high SP players from going on random suicide Rifter roams. One CSM stated a point in favor of removing learning implants, as that would be a nerf to highsec income, and he is always in favor of those where possible. Other members of the CSM were quick to object to that suggestion. Another CSM objected to "his peeps being thrown under the bus". It was suggested that CCP look into the implant losses in PVP, to try to determine the amount people are currently risking in implants.
I'm glad that there was a discussion regarding learning implants at the summit. I doubt that it will lead to their outright removal, not that I'd lose any sleep over it - they are an established part of the game. It's good to see attention focused on the topic regardless. |
Jish Ness
Invictus Industries Eternal Strife
2
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Posted - 2012.01.19 09:14:00 -
[359] - Quote
Where's that dislike button...
To be honest, I understand learning skills being removed. They took a fair amount of time to train and did discourage new players. The implants however do not have that same effect on new players. Your argument is for experienced, older players. These players know that going into a wormhole, or nullsec, is a risk. Its the risk vs reward deal that Eve stands for. By removing implants you're just removing part of that risk without removing part of that reward.
Your proposal is stupid. Present a balanced argument instead of demanding the game be made the way you want it. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1589
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 16:12:00 -
[360] - Quote
Jish Ness wrote:Where's that dislike button...
To be honest, I understand learning skills being removed. They took a fair amount of time to train and did discourage new players. The implants however do not have that same effect on new players. Your argument is for experienced, older players. These players know that going into a wormhole, or nullsec, is a risk. Its the risk vs reward deal that Eve stands for. By removing implants you're just removing part of that risk without removing part of that reward.
Your proposal is stupid. Present a balanced argument instead of demanding the game be made the way you want it.
part of what reward? |
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