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Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1255
   |
Posted - 2011.12.09 10:09:00 -
[151] - Quote
Nullbeard Rager wrote:Andski wrote:Alexander Jabez wrote:Lol if "look how dumb you are" is the best retort you have I think this battle of wits goes to him. I don't engage in "battles of wit" with cowards hiding behind forum alts. Because no one is sneaky in EVE amirite? Gosh you are SOOOO cool for being a nullbear ranger living a life of virtual danger AND calling people cowards...in a video game. 
ah, that's what they call it nowadays, it's not aversion to being known as a terrible poster, you're just being ~sneaky~ |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
Petition Blizzard
385
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 15:04:00 -
[152] - Quote
Andski wrote:I'm saying that new players don't follow hyperoptimized skillplans focused on two attributes. "Only buy what you need" doesn't really apply.
No, but new players are also generally using +3s at most, have ****-poor attribute maps (I know I did) and aren't generally operating on anything resembling a plan. If we're going to base everything in this on what players do in their first few months, I've got some suggestions... |
Amarr Champine
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2011.12.09 22:08:00 -
[153] - Quote
Andski wrote:Alexander Jabez wrote:Lol if "look how dumb you are" is the best retort you have I think this battle of wits goes to him. I don't engage in "battles of wit" with cowards hiding behind forum alts.
Lawls. In any case, its internet spaceshipz and some guy hiding behind a PC calling me a coward doesn't offend me. =)
If perhaps the topic of discussion was getting rid of forum alts, then I or anyone else would care about your weak comeback. In this case, it isn't. Its about goons seemingly trying to ruin/kill the very game they play. Its sad. On the matter of cowards, grow a pair and buy some +5s if you are living in null. Problem solved! Perhaps this no-name forum alt should run for CSM. =P
If any of you want to p**s and moan about forums alts, then post another topic and maybe CCP can try what blizzard tried. Make everyone post with their real name. Forum would probably be barren of insults then.
Happy Holidays. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
278
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 22:36:00 -
[154] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Andski wrote:I'm saying that new players don't follow hyperoptimized skillplans focused on two attributes. "Only buy what you need" doesn't really apply. No, but new players are also generally using +3s at most, have ****-poor attribute maps (I know I did) and aren't generally operating on anything resembling a plan. If we're going to base everything in this on what players do in their first few months, I've got some suggestions...
Visual skill trees ala Diablo 2 without needing Evemon would be pretty cool for newbies.
Right now it's just a bunch of books and show info.
Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks. |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate
The Dominion Empire
67
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 19:41:00 -
[155] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Andski wrote:I'm saying that new players don't follow hyperoptimized skillplans focused on two attributes. "Only buy what you need" doesn't really apply. No, but new players are also generally using +3s at most, have ****-poor attribute maps (I know I did) and aren't generally operating on anything resembling a plan. If we're going to base everything in this on what players do in their first few months, I've got some suggestions... Visual skill trees ala Diablo 2 without needing Evemon would be pretty cool for newbies. Right now it's just a bunch of books and show info.
If you want skill trees layed out for you then go play WoW or Rift. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1274
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:25:00 -
[156] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote:If you want skill trees layed out for you then go play WoW or Rift.
"Go play this other game, EVE should be undocumented and bad"
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Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate
The Dominion Empire
67
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:28:00 -
[157] - Quote
Andski wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:If you want skill trees layed out for you then go play WoW or Rift. "Go play this other game, EVE should be undocumented and bad"
EVE is in no way undocumented or bad. EVE is fairly unique and should stay that way. I'm sorry if people want the game to be "dumbed down" because they are incapable of understanding something more complex than a game that has your plan laid out for you from day 1. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1282
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:30:00 -
[158] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote:Andski wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:If you want skill trees layed out for you then go play WoW or Rift. "Go play this other game, EVE should be undocumented and bad" EVE is in no way undocumented or bad. EVE is fairly unique and should stay that way. I'm sorry if people want the game to be "dumbed down" because they are incapable of understanding something more complex than a game that has your plan laid out for you from day 1.
btw, the game already has this, they're called "certificates." go unsub over CCP dumbing it down. |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate
The Dominion Empire
67
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:37:00 -
[159] - Quote
Andski wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:Andski wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:If you want skill trees layed out for you then go play WoW or Rift. "Go play this other game, EVE should be undocumented and bad" EVE is in no way undocumented or bad. EVE is fairly unique and should stay that way. I'm sorry if people want the game to be "dumbed down" because they are incapable of understanding something more complex than a game that has your plan laid out for you from day 1. btw, the game already has this, they're called "certificates." go unsub over CCP dumbing it down.
The certificate planner is not what he was talking about. Go unsub over not understanding the context of the discussion. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1283
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:53:00 -
[160] - Quote
Then go yell at EVEMon's developers? |
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tEcHnOkRaT
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.11 05:23:00 -
[161] - Quote
and if u remove the learning implants u can also remove the costs for re-upgrading ur clone.(or remove the clone feature altogether) cuz if u can calculate ur loses only in ship cost alot more peapole would stop being carebears and start some pvp |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
308
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 05:53:00 -
[162] - Quote
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:and if u remove the learning implants u can also remove the costs for re-upgrading ur clone.(or remove the clone feature altogether) cuz if u can calculate ur loses only in ship cost alot more peapole would stop being carebears and start some pvp
And thus, consequence is removed from Eve. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1288
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 07:03:00 -
[163] - Quote
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:and if u remove the learning implants u can also remove the costs for re-upgrading ur clone.(or remove the clone feature altogether) cuz if u can calculate ur loses only in ship cost alot more peapole would stop being carebears and start some pvp
god no |
Desmont McCallock
64
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 08:57:00 -
[164] - Quote
Andski wrote:Then go yell at EVEMon's developers?
I heard some yelling. What's the fuzz all about? |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate
The Dominion Empire
67
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 17:36:00 -
[165] - Quote
I just thought of something that was fairly interesting to me....
The guys here in Null want learning implants to go away. I also saw a few of you asking for more combat implants. My question is this...
If you already unwilling to lose 600m worth of +5 learning implants, how can you justify more high grade and low grade combat implants when they're going to cost 700-2b isk with Omega ? If you won't lose simple +5 implants then I highly doubt that you'll ever use combat implants. |
Takeshi Yamato
ALA Biomedical
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 18:05:00 -
[166] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote:I just thought of something that was fairly interesting to me....
The guys here in Null want learning implants to go away. I also saw a few of you asking for more combat implants. My question is this...
If you already unwilling to lose 600m worth of +5 learning implants, how can you justify more high grade and low grade combat implants when they're going to cost 700-2b isk with Omega ? If you won't lose simple +5 implants then I highly doubt that you'll ever use combat implants.
More combat implants is a red herring. This thread is about removal of learning implants, nowhere does the proposal mention anything about more combat implants. |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
312
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 18:23:00 -
[167] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote:I just thought of something that was fairly interesting to me....
The guys here in Null want learning implants to go away. I also saw a few of you asking for more combat implants. My question is this...
If you already unwilling to lose 600m worth of +5 learning implants, how can you justify more high grade and low grade combat implants when they're going to cost 700-2b isk with Omega ? If you won't lose simple +5 implants then I highly doubt that you'll ever use combat implants.
They know that already, which is the whole point. It's just a distraction, silly. The whole point is to remove consequence from Eve. I should be able to get podded with zero loss. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 18:25:00 -
[168] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:I just thought of something that was fairly interesting to me....
The guys here in Null want learning implants to go away. I also saw a few of you asking for more combat implants. My question is this...
If you already unwilling to lose 600m worth of +5 learning implants, how can you justify more high grade and low grade combat implants when they're going to cost 700-2b isk with Omega ? If you won't lose simple +5 implants then I highly doubt that you'll ever use combat implants. They know that already, which is the whole point. It's just a distraction, silly. The whole point is to remove consequence from Eve. I should be able to get podded with zero loss.
lmao alt posting  |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
31
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Posted - 2011.12.11 19:39:00 -
[169] - Quote
Andski wrote:I'm saying that new players don't follow hyperoptimized skillplans focused on two attributes. "Only buy what you need" doesn't really apply. I believe it can apply. You only train using two attributes at a time; no more, no less. There is a dominant pairing: Intelligence/Memory and Perception/Willpower. Two jump clones, a few spares, and you are set. While I used +3s out in nullsec, I recommend a +4/3 combination. It really isnGÇÖt too bad on the wallet if you lose them.
Once you are more established, it becomes a choice between more toys or more SP.
Andski wrote:Can you tell me the pros of living in nullsec?
Increased income? High-sec L4s and incursions have marginally lower payouts with substantially decreased risk.
Safe, secure sov space? Sure, and the risk of losing everything when you lose your space and it gets trapped in a station, with no way out but spies or retaking. I actually can. I can tell you about life in nullsec, lowsec, getting constantly war-deced, and being the one doing the war-decing. I know what itGÇÖs like to lose your space too.
Missions to null, null wins hands down. Sure, you can narrow the gap by sinking isk into an expensive ship, but then you can get ganked by an Oracle swarm on a Guristas mission.
Incursions, that is a different story. However, donGÇÖt they have much better ones in nullsec? |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1289
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 20:30:00 -
[170] - Quote
Obsidiana wrote:Incursions, that is a different story. However, donGÇÖt they have much better ones in nullsec?
No idea, I hear lowsec incursions are where it's at.
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Malcorath Sacerdos
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
8
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Posted - 2011.12.12 08:24:00 -
[171] - Quote
@ op
hmm intresting ..
i completly agree
+1 m8 |
Mixu Paatelainen
Ore Mongers
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 16:03:00 -
[172] - Quote
Supported. Long since given up on learning implants. Whether something takes 19 days or 16, who cares? |
MNagy
Yo-Mama
Quixotic Hegemony
42
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 17:39:00 -
[173] - Quote
Mixu Paatelainen wrote:Supported. Long since given up on learning implants. Whether something takes 19 days or 16, who cares?
I always liked the 'implant' portion of the game.
Even more so now that a pod kill shows the expensive implants you have popped. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 18:13:00 -
[174] - Quote
I'm mixed on this topic.
Attribute implants make up a decent part of the eve market. I'm not sure just ripping it out is a good idea. Would all the attribute implants I own just vanish with no reimbursment?
But there is definitely a problem with people not wanting to go into null sec because of bubbles.
What if you could warp your pod out of a bubble? The risk in null sec would be the same as the risk in low sec/high sec.
It seems less drastic than making all these implants go out of existance and changing several others that include this bonus.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Takeshi Yamato
ALA Biomedical
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 18:50:00 -
[175] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I'm mixed on this topic.
Attribute implants make up a decent part of the eve market. I'm not sure just ripping it out is a good idea. Would all the attribute implants I own just vanish with no reimbursment?
But there is definitely a problem with people not wanting to go into null sec because of bubbles.
What if you could warp your pod out of a bubble? The risk in null sec would be the same as the risk in low sec/high sec.
Pods would make nearly unstoppable scouts - probably not a good thing.
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Mocam
EVE University
Ivy League
71
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Posted - 2011.12.12 18:57:00 -
[176] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:thetwilitehour wrote:Goose99 wrote:Andski wrote:butthurt  This is just a nullbear whine. Bubbles are dangerous, you lose your implants. Working as intended. Do you not understand that we are proposing additional implants to exist, simply not learning ones?  Yes, certain implants should be more special to others. Learning is sacred, and should not be lost just because I choose to live in null. I want the benefits of null, but not consequences.
Less so about this than about getting more folks involved.
I'll give you a funny point to look at.
"back in the day, we used to get up at 3AM to adjust our queue for training!" - ever read these kinds of posts?
Guess what - there is a portion of this community that the only way in hell they are up at 3AM is if it's feeding time and no, that isn't from smoking a bowl and getting the muchies.
That "real life" portion also cannot guarantee they can be online every day to jump clone around nor are they very good at PvP due to lack of time to invest in playing. They know it - most of those "more dedicated" players know it too. In general, they don't mind this but will only risk what they can afford to lose at each outing.
2006 - the average online time for EVE players is 17 hours a week. That's a part time job.
So if you have those with "real lives" that play EVE, who may spend 17 hours a MONTH in the game, that average means there are a lot who are spending vastly more time in it.
These "vastly more" types are the ones that seem to post sneers all over. They figure they are the "normal EVE player" - which may be true nowadays but if you ever want the game to grow, I'd advise players start looking at those more casual types as where to focus for growth - not your "10 accounts, 16 hours a day in EVE" players - which seem to the the ones all these penalty discussions are aimed at.
When you are cranking in tens of billions a month from your alts, and insist that others pay the penalties as if they were; only those who also are doing that CAN participate. The rest ... Don't even bother trying it - those portions of the game aren't designed for them so they should just stay out of it - which they tend to do. The "alt army" is, again, a rather thinner layer of the gaming community than those who spend far less time "playing".
So making things more accessible - enabling folks to follow the golden rule of EVE - "don't fly what you cannot afford to lose" but aiming those losses farther down the income chain, to encourage more player involvement... Yeah I kind of like the idea but I'm confused as hell seeing it coming from Andski.
You see I've seen him chatting in EVE - this guy loves being involved in things like hulkageddon laughing about how those "bot pilot" tears are so great - except, last time I checked, bot pilots weren't around their keyboard to whine when they were blown up ... Be that as it may - He has been a proponent of more griefing of anyone who plays this game than most I've seen. He's about as far from "nullbear" as you'll get and has a bunch of accounts to fund his PvP.
I saw this thread and the first thing that went through my head was "the second post has to be his alt. He's trolling here..." because THAT post sounded more like him than his suggestion. When he says losses like this don't bother him, he's being honest. It's the mitigation of any PvP penalties that just doesn't make sense - that just doesn't sound like him.
/boggle |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 23:40:00 -
[177] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Cearain wrote:I'm mixed on this topic.
Attribute implants make up a decent part of the eve market. I'm not sure just ripping it out is a good idea. Would all the attribute implants I own just vanish with no reimbursment?
But there is definitely a problem with people not wanting to go into null sec because of bubbles.
What if you could warp your pod out of a bubble? The risk in null sec would be the same as the risk in low sec/high sec. Pods would make nearly unstoppable scouts - probably not a good thing.
Aren't cov ops already nearly unstoppable? With the ability to cloak and scan they would still seem to be a better choice than a pod.
Comparing that to increasing everyone's attributes by 5 points, taking valuable assets from players with no reimbursment, and demolishing what is left of already almost useless lp stores, it seems a relatively minor disadvantage.
Plus allowing pods to warp out of bubbles would lead to more people buying implants and actually make the economy more robust instead of eliminating a large part of it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Rellik B00n
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
61
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Posted - 2011.12.13 01:47:00 -
[178] - Quote
sounds good, get rid. 
IF post = alt AND subject is positive for goons THEN assume goon alt post. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:52:00 -
[179] - Quote
I dont like the ideal anymore then I liked having my Learning skills removed.
But omost everything here transfers from Learning skills to Learning Implants so mybe CCP will.
But I dout it. There all about painfull deaths and burning though isk.
Other wise they would have though out the Learning Implants witch is a bad ideal to begin with and keept the Learning skills. |
Xander Hunt
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 08:02:00 -
[180] - Quote
Not supported
EVE is about making decisions. To those people that put +5 implants in their head put on the table that they are willing to risk said implants in whatever they decide to do in EVE, be it PvP, PvE, PvMarket, PvAsteroids.
EVE boils down to this;
Risk management. Every single one of us decided that we're willing to risk whatever it is we put in our heads in whatever adventures we have in EVE. If you want to train faster on certain skills, you put the implants in. If you don't want to train faster, then you don't put anything in. That's your business. Just because you feel that you're being jipped on training, or, you've seen other players not want to join you on roams because of THEIR decisions, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry that not everyone wants to play the game the same way you want to. I genuinely am. But, if this game was the way you wanted to play, there would be a lot missing. Like, no miners, no one building anything, nothing. If anything, people would all be shooting at each other in their rookie ships.
With the scope on blanketing everyone with the a buff on the training, I can't support that either.
First, there is no risk of losing anything with the buff, just the same as there was no risk of losing anything with the learning skills themselves, as someone else already mentioned.
Second, EVE is about taking every damned advantage you can over another player. Buffing EVERYONE only lessens the chance of superseding someone else because you're equals. All players now training at the same speeds to get to their first battleship at the same time will now all get that battleship at the same time. However, if someone gets that implant in, they'll train faster to that battleship to beat out their competitors sooner. Advantage implant user.
The game mechanic is risk. If someone puts in +5s and not willing to risk them in PvP, that is their game mechanic decision. I feel sorry that you feel that you're at the disadvantage of those who do have the nards to put expensive implants in to get the advantage on you to get better equipment to beat you faster. Because, ... well.. Really... the black and white of it is that you are at the disadvantage. |
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