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[Proposal] Get rid of learning implants.

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Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc 39	Posted - 2012.03.02 20:11:00 - [451] - Quote I have a couple ideas that could fix the problems and avoid removing the implants entirely: 1.) Make pirate implants cheap and illegal, so in nullsec they can be used freely (with a small amount of discretion) while highseccers will be stuck with the bland highsec implants. Everyone with a pirate set already could be refunded whatever it costs to get them (I don't even know how they are obtained) but there should be some refund policy even if they're using it in nullsec because they paid a lot for it. 2.) Make the jump clone timer go both ways, so you can jump twice per 2 days. If you join fleets less often than once per two days, you could jump to null for the duration of the fleet and then jump right back. But I like the above idea better.
OfBalance Caldari State 126	Posted - 2012.03.09 02:52:00 - [452] - Quote They should have left at the same time as learning skills. +1
Boo mkII Sense of Serendipity Echoes of Nowhere 10	Posted - 2012.04.23 16:19:00 - [453] - Quote I was wondering... Is it the right place to discuss subjects like this ? Cause here I believe at best we only will have CSM attention... :)
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant 0	Posted - 2012.04.23 18:30:00 - [454] - Quote Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice.
Dexxel Farcry Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness 1	Posted - 2012.04.23 22:41:00 - [455] - Quote This proposal sucks.
Drake Draconis Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans 519	Posted - 2012.04.23 22:45:00 - [456] - Quote So are people who necro. ================ Get PAID FOR SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Davon Mandra'thin Solar Horizon Directive 16	Posted - 2012.04.23 23:08:00 - [457] - Quote No. That is all.
Nazowa UK Corp RAZOR Alliance 1	Posted - 2012.04.25 09:07:00 - [458] - Quote Remove learning implants. I do support this.
Iri'yana State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.04.25 09:24:00 - [459] - Quote Eternal Error wrote: Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice. Good argument. Plus, implant also serve a an ISK drain on the game economy being only produced and offered by NPC. Get rid of them and CCP will take away your money in just another way or limit you income by botteling up one or two ISK faucets.
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 1562	Posted - 2012.04.25 13:12:00 - [460] - Quote Iri'yana wrote: Eternal Error wrote: Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice. Good argument. Plus, implant also serve a an ISK drain on the game economy being only produced and offered by NPC. Get rid of them and CCP will take away your money in just another way or limit you income by botteling up one or two ISK faucets. You don't know what an ISK sink is, do you? EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 3485	Posted - 2012.04.25 14:39:00 - [461] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Iri'yana wrote: Eternal Error wrote: Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice. Good argument. Plus, implant also serve a an ISK drain on the game economy being only produced and offered by NPC. Get rid of them and CCP will take away your money in just another way or limit you income by botteling up one or two ISK faucets. You don't know what an ISK sink is, do you? Learning implants sourced from the LP store are a considerable ISK sink (12M ISK for a +4, I believe) Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Drake Draconis Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans 521	Posted - 2012.04.25 14:56:00 - [462] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Iri'yana wrote: Eternal Error wrote: Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice. Good argument. Plus, implant also serve a an ISK drain on the game economy being only produced and offered by NPC. Get rid of them and CCP will take away your money in just another way or limit you income by botteling up one or two ISK faucets. You don't know what an ISK sink is, do you? Learning implants sourced from the LP store are a considerable ISK sink (12M ISK for a +4, I believe) Was Gonna say....someone forgot to get their cup of quafe. ================ Get PAID FOR SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 347	Posted - 2012.04.25 17:01:00 - [463] - Quote Andski wrote: Nathaniel Sandalphon wrote: No way is this supported!! Read all the post to page 10 and I believe all has been said there. The most important thing is: EVE is a risk game, if you don't like it go play WOW or some other crap more suitable to your ***** gameplay style. If you don't want to loose implants then just don't buy them, simple as that. Oh wait...you want to skill faster,well guess what buy an implant!! Goos69 for president nah...not really but I like his style tell me more about the risks you take avoiding PvP Your argument here is a bit hamfisted. Your logic is that anything that involves risk in pvp can prevent pvp and therefore should be removed. That sort of ruins the entire point of the game. If implants are a particular problem for null sec due to bubbles then make it so null sec bubbles don't hold pods. Thats easy. But don't ruin the game for everyone due to one particular isolated problem. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 214	Posted - 2012.04.25 22:28:00 - [464] - Quote wow it's like you totally missed the last 23 pages of this discussion let's get something out of the way here: this isn't about risks in pvp, this is about being rewarded for /not/ taking risks eh
Iri'yana State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2012.04.26 12:17:00 - [465] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Iri'yana wrote: Eternal Error wrote: Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice. Good argument. Plus, implant also serve a an ISK drain on the game economy being only produced and offered by NPC. Get rid of them and CCP will take away your money in just another way or limit you income by botteling up one or two ISK faucets. You don't know what an ISK sink is, do you? Well ... I think I do. Basically it comes down to interaction with NPCs. If you get money from them (bounties, mission rewards, insurance payouts etc.), then its an ISK faucet. If you give money to them (LP stores, NPC taxes, fees etc.), then it is an ISK sind. Payments between players don't change the amount of ISK in game. If your ship gets shot down, then you have lost an investment and assets worth a certain amount of ISK. But another player, who manufactured all that stuff, got paid for those assets and still has the money. So no change to the overall in-game ISK amount.
Anton Abo State War Academy Caldari State 8	Posted - 2012.04.27 11:51:00 - [466] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Iri'yana wrote: Eternal Error wrote: Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice. Good argument. Plus, implant also serve a an ISK drain on the game economy being only produced and offered by NPC. Get rid of them and CCP will take away your money in just another way or limit you income by botteling up one or two ISK faucets. You don't know what an ISK sink is, do you? Learning implants sourced from the LP store are a considerable ISK sink (12M ISK for a +4, I believe) Not exactly ; The LP store is an ISK sink. The implants are just one of many elements of the store. If you don't buy implants with the LP, you will still use those points for other things, and the sink will remain. And, no, implants are a reward for not taking risk. Hence i support the thread from OP.
Drake Draconis Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans 527	Posted - 2012.04.27 14:24:00 - [467] - Quote Anton Abo wrote: Malcanis wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Iri'yana wrote: Eternal Error wrote: Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice. Good argument. Plus, implant also serve a an ISK drain on the game economy being only produced and offered by NPC. Get rid of them and CCP will take away your money in just another way or limit you income by botteling up one or two ISK faucets. You don't know what an ISK sink is, do you? Learning implants sourced from the LP store are a considerable ISK sink (12M ISK for a +4, I believe) Not exactly ; The LP store is an ISK sink. The implants are just one of many elements of the store. If you don't buy implants with the LP, you will still use those points for other things, and the sink will remain. And, no, implants are a reward for not taking risk. Hence i support the thread from OP. How do you figure? Haven't been watching the killboards lately I take it? ================ Get PAID FOR SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Corbin Blair Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2012.04.28 09:48:00 - [468] - Quote Faife wrote: Posters attitude is typical of high sec carebears like him. The point of learning implants is to give an advantage to people who don't die and create a greater death penalty for people who die and are bad at pvp. This is something he might find exciting and intriguing if he were to join an actual corp and move to 0.0, which I recommend for him. I was going to flame you until I saw your alliance. Well played sir. Almost got me. Anton Abo wrote: And, no, implants are a reward for not taking risk. Hence i support the thread from OP. I completely agree.
Valkyrie D'ark Armed Resistance Movement 5	Posted - 2012.04.28 10:11:00 - [469] - Quote So this is how the drones are controlled to manipulate things. Interesting. Anyway, Leave our attribute implants alone. No real pilot ever stopped himself from having funn coz of impants. Only wimps like you. If you havent noticed the best combat implants are the most expensive ones. If anything theyv should change sets to give +5 to char attributes
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3922	Posted - 2012.04.28 10:14:00 - [470] - Quote Valkyrie D'ark wrote: So this is how the drones are controlled to manipulate things. Interesting. Anyway, Leave our attribute implants alone. No real pilot ever stopped himself from having funn coz of impants. Only wimps like you. If you havent noticed the best combat implants are the most expensive ones. If anything theyv should change sets to give +5 to char attributes "drones" lol "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed 1462	Posted - 2012.04.28 10:41:00 - [471] - Quote Drake Draconis wrote: Anton Abo wrote: And, no, implants are a reward for not taking risk. Hence i support the thread from OP. How do you figure? Haven't been watching the killboards lately I take it? Given the same amount of ISK to spend on implants, someone in a Low-Risk environment will gain SP faster than someone in a High-Risk environment because Low-Risk guy can stock a small number of expensive implants, expecting that he will not be podded often, while High-Risk guy has to stock a large number of cheaper implants, expecting that he will be podded frequently. So Implants reward Low-Risk activities by allowing you to amortize their cost over a much greater number of SP. Single-Shard, *Player Driven*Sandbox. 5 words. That's what makes it special.
DODGE CITY We are the few. -Silicon Heaven- 5	Posted - 2012.04.28 14:33:00 - [472] - Quote +4 implants are really not that expensive if you use LP . you probably came upon this ideal after you fail suicide ganked a noob and lost your implants if ccp did do away with implants i would want my isk value reimbursed to me i bought them so i could train faster than new players. i consider them a bonus for having alot of high level skills and ability to afford them they should change the name of -áGëíGêÜGëí to nerf this nerf that.. that players wallet is to fat..lol GëíGêÜGëí
Marlona Sky Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 829	Posted - 2012.04.28 23:06:00 - [473] - Quote DODGE CITY wrote: +4 implants are really not that expensive if you use LP . you probably came upon this ideal after you fail suicide ganked a noob and lost your implants if ccp did do away with implants i would want my isk value reimbursed to me i bought them so i could train faster than new players. i consider them a bonus for having alot of high level skills and ability to afford them 0/10 Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed 1463	Posted - 2012.04.29 01:32:00 - [474] - Quote DODGE CITY wrote: +4 implants are really not that expensive if you use LP . you probably came upon this ideal after you fail suicide ganked a noob and lost your implants if ccp did do away with implants i would want my isk value reimbursed to me i bought them so i could train faster than new players. i consider them a bonus for having alot of high level skills and ability to afford them LP you mine are free, amirite? As for getting the isk value reimbursed, it's like learning skills, they promised that you would train faster full stop, no reference to other players. Any scheme that replaced learning implants would need some way, besides straight reimbursement, to make sure nobody trains significantly slower than they do now. By the way, +4 implants are cheap if you buy them in isk, but a 30m Isk skull still makes you think twice before jumping in a 5m isk frigate to go on a roam where you don't expect to be able to make it home if your ship asplodes. That's the type of PvP implants end up discouraging. Thinking about it, what about a hybrid system, Implants AND Boosters (no stacking bonuses ofc). It's not great from a perspective of avoiding rewarding risk-averse behavior, but it would stop punishing risk loving behavior so much. Single-Shard, *Player Driven*Sandbox. 5 words. That's what makes it special.
Tri Vetra Ascetic Virtues 47	Posted - 2012.04.30 07:30:00 - [475] - Quote i like learning implants because i literally love superficial complexity in my videogames and i hate having fun eragjigjareiejrsgajgrigjrea
Eryn Velasquez 37	Posted - 2012.04.30 09:00:00 - [476] - Quote Did'nt read all the 23 pages, but i support the idea to get rid of the learning implants. If someone posted this before, i apologize, but what about race specific implants? What i like is the diversity and complexity of this game, but when your toon has trained cybernetics to V, every race is able to use the same implants with the same features. That's boring. Some new skills like Minmatar/Amarr/Caldari/Gallente cybernetic specialisation would add the ability to use race specific implants. So a Minmatar could better use race specific weapons like Autocannons than an also fully trained Caldari using these. GÇ£A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.GÇ¥-áGÇò Jean-Jacques Rousseau-á
Blastfizzle Quondam Souls of the Universe corporation G00DFELLAS 59	Posted - 2012.05.02 09:19:00 - [477] - Quote Faife wrote: Posters attitude is typical of high sec carebears like him. The point of learning implants is to give an advantage to people who don't die and create a greater death penalty for people who die and are bad at pvp. This is something he might find exciting and intriguing if he were to join an actual corp and move to 0.0, which I recommend for him. It's the opposite. Hi-sec carebears are the ones who are quite safe from dying. They might be the worst PvPers, but if they stay away from smartbombing-worthy targets, they are very, very safe. I am pretty bad PvPer, but even the best in our alliance know that there are daily risks of losing your pod at 0.0. Being good PvPer does not make you invulnerable to getting alphaed and stuck in a bubble. Therefore, learning implants actually reward carebears.
Rimase Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse 27	Posted - 2012.05.02 09:39:00 - [478] - Quote Attribute Implants buffing skills are ok. There is no problem with that. Pros: They reward the player who wants to progress faster, the player who makes an investment to achieve a target quicker through deciding to play the game longer than expected. LP system is a money-sink. It's where ISK leaves the economy, and this not arguable - it is good. Cons: They can be a tad bit excessive in their buffs. There so much sandbox ** in EVE, it's kinda of redonkulous to have another layer of buffers being Implants and Boosters. Boosters for are especially f-ing excessive. Too much is going on - reduce the madness! After all, if this is not resolved, how can CCP truly balance ships as they say? Proposal:** Change Attribute Implants to be Attribute-only! Change Attribute Implant's 'named' set to give an additional boost in specific attribute(s) (Instead of skill-buffs) Remove Hardwiring Implants but; keep Boosters and change them as contraband for upcoming Smuggler professionals. NEW: Immortal-grade Clones (Implant) (Ideal for null sec PvPers and Militia. Illegal in Concord & Empire zones unless Militia) (Why CCP no improve Shareholding?): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=71032#post71032
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 353	Posted - 2012.05.02 13:38:00 - [479] - Quote Anton Abo wrote: Malcanis wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Iri'yana wrote: Eternal Error wrote: Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice. Good argument. Plus, implant also serve a an ISK drain on the game economy being only produced and offered by NPC. Get rid of them and CCP will take away your money in just another way or limit you income by botteling up one or two ISK faucets. You don't know what an ISK sink is, do you? Learning implants sourced from the LP store are a considerable ISK sink (12M ISK for a +4, I believe) Not exactly ; The LP store is an ISK sink. The implants are just one of many elements of the store. If you don't buy implants with the LP, you will still use those points for other things, and the sink will remain. And, no, implants are a reward for not taking risk. Hence i support the thread from OP. The lp store is pretty much dead already due to lots of lp from incursions and the agent quality changes. The implants are a very large part of what is left of it. If you take out that substantial amount of the store without replacing it then the few items left will be swampted and the lp stores will almost certainly be worthless. That is a big impact on the game. Now why not allow pods to warp out of bubbles? And then you don't have this problem anymore. I mean shooting bubbled pods is not really that challenging is it? You want to destroy a major part of the game (the lp store) that requires thought and research so you can continue to shoot fish in a barrel. That is about as clear an example of dumbing the game down that I can find. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Archdaimon NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred 33	Posted - 2012.05.05 00:47:00 - [480] - Quote Learning implants like learning skills should be removed. Keep the hardwirings though. They make a fun risk/reward system.

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