If you read my post 1039 in this thread where I am providing example scenarios for both static sov structure and freshly spawned command bunkers you will see that this trollceptor will die in about 10.. 15 minutes when creating initial timers or is fully neutered in regards of capping bunkers. Death probability depends on the luck of both interceptor and defender. That is against general sniping cormorant fit. If you fit a ship specifically against trollceptor this could be further reduced.

I red two nice ideas how to make Entosis links work.
. Imo balancing pvp around BC and BS hulls is the best path to take if we want a balanced game.

i'm sorry post 1039 and every single goddamn post of yours since then neglects to explain how it's actually fun to spend 4hrs a day chasing interceptors you've got like a 75% chance of not killing (or whatever statistic you pulled out of your ass).

perchance, is that because it simply isn't?

It's because you don't need to chase it. You defend your current system and when it moves on to another system, the locals there can defend against it.

No chasing required.

I've not seen any scrutiny which has actually dissolved this as of yet. So far we've had intelligent responses stating what the problem is and they've been met by:

• FW players who have no concept of more than one system being fought over
• Canned responses of "You don't deserve to have the sov..." from people who've clearly not taken the time to think about this (or can't)
• "grr gons are saying it, so must be bad"
• The same posters who thought Pheobe was good, threatened to come to null and predicted the collapse of the blocs, all of which are proven to be incorrect.
• People trying to score internet points.
• People who think alarm clocking system police etc is somehow good for this game/fun.
• A combination of the above

The penultimate one is probably the only valid, rational response.

i'm sorry post 1039 and every single goddamn post of yours since then neglects to explain how it's actually fun to spend 4hrs a day chasing interceptors you've got like a 75% chance of not killing (or whatever statistic you pulled out of your ass).

perchance, is that because it simply isn't?

you don't chase it, it comes back 5 mins later. we do the same dance every 5 mins for 4 hours.

how's this interesting and/or engaging gameplay?

In that example it is clear that one does not need to "spend 4hrs a day chasing interceptors". It dies in about 4 tries of creating a timer against a standard cormorant. All it takes is having someone in local willing to respond to a solo inty poking at structure within about 7-8 minutes or so.

Feel free to provide counter example scenario with numbers how a trollceptor would be invincible herald of doom. Just moaning how it is so is not particularly convincing.

nobody gives a **** how easy it is to counter because nobody will bother because it's boring.

for the sake of discussion, please list them so i can respond to each and every one.

if a defender is willing to just feed ships in to a meat grinder faster than you can kill them and you have 0 way to pause the progress - you lose by default.

edit: also in the post you quoted i perhaps should have said "pause" not "prevent" but oh well. pause is closer to what i meant.

Hit the nail on the head finally. It's upto 4x as boring for the attacker, so remind me how this is effective trolling or griefing?

because if you don't waste your time going and defending a node people aren't really trying to capture, you end up with multiple instances of the same crap you then have to defend in the same potentially boring and uninteresting manner or you lose your sov/ihub/station.

that's how it's effective. you're forced to endure boring content or lose sov basically

[quote=Querns]Now instead of attempting to attack the man, try and attack his points

well lets negate the fact most weapon systems can deal dps beyond the 25km range you harp on about and talk about non damage specific examples being both ECM and Ewar, and inclusive of that it also makes the once irrelevant lockbreaker bomb somewhat worthwhile as a somewhat viable ecm burst. additionaly to that is actual ecm bursts that can be fitted on ceptors that can land ecm burst and warp off pretty much without getting caught

and considering the second point you made, forces are strong in their ability to do the heavy lifting and provide the logistics to heel the war machine rolling are part and parcel of what makes an occupying force dominant enough to occupy. Your entirely assumed idea that a force that has both the strength of willpower and resource might to keep reshipping and keep at the objective regardless of losses is a show of dominance and strength. Brave are a prime example of that where other lesser orgs have not had the determination that they possess.

and finally yes pause and prevent are two different things, and you should be mindful where you use either, as one is a complete denial of one thing over another and the other is a temporary scenario that trends towards a conclusion.

Sure. Raise a few points and we'll attack em. Still waiting for any meaningful argument from you in the ISBoxer thread btw.

That sounds like a fair game of attrition. The attacker puts up 4x the manhours as the defender to grind them into submission.

I don't really see the problem there.

It's the attacker's prerogative - they *could* actually start a fight instead of using attrition if they desired!

again, i honestly couldn't give a stuff about "fair"

i'm interested in having a fun and interesting system - the one suggested is far from it.

I just noticed its now post # 973

As far "its boring" goes - it is less boring that shooting a structure in my opinion. Sov warfare has been traditionally a battle of will in EVE - until at some point number of supercapitals went so high that will had not much to do with holding a sov anymore - it was just a question of having a critical mass of supers.

Shooting trollceptors would be reasonably rewarding activity in addition isk/h wise. Spending about 4.. 5 (1..2 min ship change, about 1 min to try to kill it, 1..2 min ship change back) minutes to a counter one with 25% probability of a kill and 50% probability of 80 mil drop if getting a kill would net roughly 40 mil/tick (a trollceptor kill every 20 minutes but only every second would drop the mod). Sure it will not knock ones socks off but on the other hand it would not be a totally wasted time either isk/h wise.

"Its boring" is anyway a bit too general statement. People find different things interesting. I still cant understand, for example, what was going on in the head of ice miner before the ice mining changes but people were actually doing it. Boring to some guy interesting to some other.

If I would have a sov and I would have a trollceptor problem where I would be dealing with them 4h straight I would fit a specific ship extra for these guys which would be able to kill one reliably in ~60 seconds or more (which would increase the kill rate to 50%).

It seems incredible that some people are still defending trollceptors in light of Fozzie's original post:. In that post, he said this:


We've been seeing quite a bit of concern from parts of the community that the Entosis Link mechanics will push people to pure evasion fits, the so called trollceptors. It goes without saying that we do not want the sov war meta turn into nothing but sensor boosting Interceptors, but we have plenty of time and tools to help ensure that scenario doesn't occur.

One of the points of this thread is to discuss how CCP can avoid trollceptors becoming a thing.

I suggest a speed limit of 3500m/s on ships using the entosis link.

Goons should stop saying how stupid trollceptors are (that is a given) and start making suggestions as to how to avoid them.

The other posters should stop defending the idea of a trollceptor. Fozzie's post says that CCP's focus is to ensure a command node is won by the party controlling the grid. Kiting interceptors at 10,000m/s do not fulfil that goal and will therefore not be allowed.

When i like to play with small ships frigates and destros i go to FW

when i want to conquer something i think i might need a bigger boat

E-Link can be fitted in :

Ceptors frigates destroyers = NO
Cruisers = Maybe
Battlecruisers = YES YES HELL YES ( brings a reason for peeps to actually use them once again )
Batleships =yes
Carriers= maybe
Supers= NO NO NO HELL NO

also i dont like the idea of the skill.. "hey i can jump clone i can go and conquer the world also now"
it should be under "Corporation Managment" group of skills

it should simply be the case that the capture of a node should not happen until only one man is left standing on the grid; as such unless you can pause an attackers progress, or a defender's progress one will inevitably win regardless of who is left standing at the end not that i think that's good or bad one way or the other but it goes against the idea fozzie said he's working to.

anyway nearly time to leave the office.

Everyone who has never had to defend sov should ask yourselves what you could possibly contribute to this discussion.

If I'm in a trollceptor, and you damp me with a Celestis or whatever, I move three systems over and lose you, and start again. I don't even have to go for sov, I'll just turn off station services because it's faster and it creates work for you. This is going to happen every day until we're all too bored to deal with it anymore. And then we'll all just play a different game.

as some one who has participated in both sov warfare, and ice mining. i can tell you what goes through the head of some one ice mining, or structure bashing.

it's the same.

it's netflix.

can't even watch netflix while doing the boring part of this new sov system.

I see you joined goons to cry in this one as well?

Let's hear your argument regarding this change.

(1) If there is no one present in local you can freely to do so regardless of ship used.
(2) If there is someone present in local willing to do something about you you will be unsuccessful in that trollceptor and probably die within about 4 tries to create the timer. Exact number depends on what the defender brings.
(3) If you are happy to lose about 2-3 trollceptors / hour I am pretty sure there will be defenders willing to farm you grinning all the way through it every day you are willing to do so.