Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 26 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Anhenka
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 05:25:46 -
[271] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote: I Want to mine in highsec space, that is my chosen profession and game playing region. I in no way expect untold riches or widespread acclaim for doing so but I do expect my already modest income to be kept from going into the toilet.
This discussion is about mining, industrialists, and miners. Not about people that want to do FW, incursions, scamming and all the rest of that irrelevant stuff you are bringing up. If I wanted to do all that other stuff I would not have made a single post in this thread. And you arrived at the conclusion that what you do, unlike every other activity in the game, was a protected activity where CCP was not allowed to make changes that could negative impact your income....
Why again?
I'm honestly curious. Your chosen profession in game is the most reactive portion of the supply/demand economy, yet you believe that you should be exempt from changes in supply and demand if they would negatively effect you. |
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
207
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 05:36:56 -
[272] - Quote
Just an idea regarding Lowsec Mining:
Could you increase the number of Mining Anomalys in Low as you did with the WH Spawns? Could make mining Lowsec a bit safer (more places to check for PvPers), more profitable and most important, maybe a bit more interesting for Highseccers to test the lowsec waters. |
Simon Alfrir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 05:59:39 -
[273] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote: I Want to mine in highsec space, that is my chosen profession and game playing region. I in no way expect untold riches or widespread acclaim for doing so but I do expect my already modest income to be kept from going into the toilet.
This discussion is about mining, industrialists, and miners. Not about people that want to do FW, incursions, scamming and all the rest of that irrelevant stuff you are bringing up. If I wanted to do all that other stuff I would not have made a single post in this thread. And you arrived at the conclusion that what you do, unlike every other activity in the game, was a protected activity where CCP was not allowed to make changes that could negative impact your income.... Why again? I'm honestly curious. Your chosen profession in game is the most reactive portion of the economy in terms of supply and demand, yet you believe that you should be exempt from changes in supply and demand if they would negatively effect you. Before Nullsec started churning out supercaps by the hundreds, Tritanium hovered at 3.5 ish isk per unit, and Pyerite at 7. As of a week or two ago, Trit was at almost 6, and Pyerite at 13. You might not like it, but the fact is that you have been living fat off of an unnatural level of demand for Trit for years. Unnatural in that sooner or later, CCP was going to do something to stop it, and mineral prices would sink back towards pre-demand levels. So if your income drops by 1/3, it's not that CCP has a mad on for you, it's simply that the changes to nullsec canceled your food stamps, and you actually have to rely on more local market demand to drive demand.
I always thought this was a player driven economy. These changes are not driven by us but by CCP. He has every right to question them as do I. It is going to make the rich, richer. I see a problem with that. Miners can not suddenly fight over the resources so this is not adding to any game content.
You live in Nullsec. Tell us why these changes are necessary. What is not working in the game for you guys? Does this have to do with jump fatigue making it hard to move things down there? Why are nullsec corps not actively seeking miners given these recent changes to the game? I've visited the recruiting forums and miners for nullsec corps are never wanted it's only PvPers. Is there an adequate risk to miners in Null that would warrant these changes? I've read that the better corps protect their mining ops fairly well. Where is the added risk then that warrants these changes?
|
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2292
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 06:24:08 -
[274] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote:Edit: I do believe in risk/reward. I went over to zkillboard and searched on some of the mining ships to see where the kills are located. It's roughly 50/50 with just over half of the kills happening due to gankers in Highsec. Given that it is so dangerous to be a miner I feel compelled to demand we have access to nullsec ores in highsec. Fair is fair. Do you believe the number of miners in null is equivalent to that in highsec? |
Simon Alfrir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 06:44:26 -
[275] - Quote
Thanks, I am having a look over the rest of the thread as the initial post, your post and the announcement didn't answer my questions. For the entire game I believe the total amount of ISK lost for mining is equal between nullsec and highsec. I believe that currently the amount of money made per miner is far greater for those who do it in Nullsec. (You are already being rewarded).
Maybe you can clear it up. How much do your miners make per hour right now?
It is very hard to be profitable with industry in Highsec, I know this first hand. I heard/read that PI was also not worth doing in Highsec but does well in low/Null. Now mining is going south as well. I would like to know how many miners has your corp lost in the past month. Can you prove to me that mining in Null has added risks which warrant getting a larger reward? |
Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
168
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 06:53:46 -
[276] - Quote
Querns wrote:So what sort of EHP would you consider to not "die pathetically"? I am interested to hear how deep this well of cognitive dissonance goes. Any EHP would die, more EHP just takes longer to do so. Barge is fundamentally defenseless, no matter how much EHP it brings. In null outside of blue donut it will just die longer, in hi it will be bumped all over the place, EHP doesn't solve any of those problems, and pretending that it matters is typical igewnorance.
Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.
If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
|
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2292
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 07:38:29 -
[277] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote:Thanks, I am having a look over the rest of the thread as the initial post, your post and the announcement didn't answer my questions. For the entire game I believe the total amount of ISK lost for mining is equal between nullsec and highsec. I believe that currently the amount of money made per miner is far greater for those who do it in Nullsec. (You are already being rewarded). Ok, so unless the number of miners in each sector are roughly equal, a 50/50 split doesnt show a similar trend. If there are more miners in highsec, a 50/50 means more losses per person null. If more miners in null, then higher loss per person in highsec. The 50/50 ratio shows us nothing about frequency.
Simon Alfrir wrote:Maybe you can clear it up. How much do your miners make per hour right now? Before the recent market shenanigans, I would say 40-60mil/hr being the appropriate range, however those numbers are very dependent on which ores they chose and fits they used and gang links and other such factors.
Simon Alfrir wrote:It is very hard to be profitable with industry in Highsec, I know this first hand. I heard/read that PI was also not worth doing in Highsec but does well in low/Null. Now mining is going south as well. I would like to know how many miners has your corp lost in the past month. Can you prove to me that mining in Null has added risks which warrant getting a larger reward? I couldn't actually say how many miners we've lost. Circumstances beyond my control had a corp merger and a brief period of time away from the game (about a month or two). Even before that I can only say I was aware of about 5 other miners (pilots, not to include alts) personally, though i'm sure there were a few more. However there were a couple that mined ice primarily as I did for a period before glitter value tanked.
As for the extra risk? Essentially it comes down to the difference in mechanics.
- In null anyone can shoot you at any time, so anytime hostiles came around you had to either dock up and wait or get in a fleet to fight.
- The logistics to move the ore to highsec includes its own risks as well. Depending on the size of your shipment you could end up losing a lot, it didn't happen often (I praise our JF pilots on this), but I'm aware that some groups have honed skills on hunting hostile JF pilots. And this is necessary since there is only so much you can do with surplus high-ends if you keep it local, and then you have to decide whether to refine at home and keep the low ends or if it is more profitable to save the cargo space in compressed form
- Then there is the sov and index requirements. This can be considered to be split up amongst the alliance, but it definitely makes it very difficult if you try to run the operation with less people.
- Risk to assets if you lose your station, and the loss of isk on anything destroyed in the process of defense (ihubs, TCUs, ships, etc.).
Most of these risks are shared by the group, and also the methods used to reduce it are shared as well, but adding all of these divided costs still adds up to quite a bit more than what is needed in any other area of space. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2292
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 07:43:40 -
[278] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Querns wrote:So what sort of EHP would you consider to not "die pathetically"? I am interested to hear how deep this well of cognitive dissonance goes. Any EHP would die, more EHP just takes longer to do so. Barge is fundamentally defenseless, no matter how much EHP it brings. In null outside of blue donut it will just die longer, in hi it will be bumped all over the place, EHP doesn't solve any of those problems, and pretending that it matters is typical igewnorance. so, what in your opinion, would make them safe enough then?
I still stand by my statement, that any ship trying to do things in hostile space will die. |
Simon Alfrir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 07:56:15 -
[279] - Quote
Thanks for the answers Rowells. Your miners currently make about 4-5 more than me and do have more risk. Transportation is also a greater risk. I'm trying to understand why it is needed and I just don't see it. The system seems to be working. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2293
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 08:14:13 -
[280] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote:Thanks for the answers Rowells. Your miners currently make about 4-5 more than me and do have more risk. Transportation is also a greater risk. I'm trying to understand why it is needed and I just don't see it. The system seems to be working. Forgive me if I don't believe that number, My low end estimate includes the low end ores, so I'm a bit skeptical on how two of the same ores mined in different areas of space are worth less in one and not another.
and as for the shipment aspect I'll have to disagree again. The only risk is of being ganked, and their are plenty of deterant options available if the pilot is so inclined to choose. A little bit anecdotal here, but the only times I've ever lost a hauler were in low and nul (excluding that one time I learned the rules about entering hostile faction space in highsec). both losses were above 500mil too (freighter+lowsec=badidea). The only real difference I would argue is you cant use JF jump drive between systems. |
|
Simon Alfrir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 08:25:55 -
[281] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Simon Alfrir wrote:Thanks for the answers Rowells. Your miners currently make about 4-5 more than me and do have more risk. Transportation is also a greater risk. I'm trying to understand why it is needed and I just don't see it. The system seems to be working. Forgive me if I don't believe that number, My low end estimate includes the low end ores, so I'm a bit skeptical on how two of the same ores mined in different areas of space are worth less in one and not another. and as for the shipment aspect I'll have to disagree again. The only risk is of being ganked, and their are plenty of deterant options available if the pilot is so inclined to choose. A little bit anecdotal here, but the only times I've ever lost a hauler were in low and nul (excluding that one time I learned the rules about entering hostile faction space in highsec). both losses were above 500mil too (freighter+lowsec=badidea). The only real difference I would argue is you cant use JF jump drive between systems.
Currently I can make about 10 Mill. an hour in a barge mining ore. You stated you make between 40-60 Mill. an hour. So you make 4-6 times more than I do. I also am acknowledging that transportation is riskier for you in Null. My income is now going to slip. I will be making less and your numbers will rise you will be making more. BTW, our haulers also are increasingly at risk of being ganked. It's not a zero-risk process.
Can you honestly tell me your miners/industry are currently so hobbled that these changes are necessary?
|
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2295
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 09:11:29 -
[282] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote:Rowells wrote:Simon Alfrir wrote:Thanks for the answers Rowells. Your miners currently make about 4-5 more than me and do have more risk. Transportation is also a greater risk. I'm trying to understand why it is needed and I just don't see it. The system seems to be working. Forgive me if I don't believe that number, My low end estimate includes the low end ores, so I'm a bit skeptical on how two of the same ores mined in different areas of space are worth less in one and not another. and as for the shipment aspect I'll have to disagree again. The only risk is of being ganked, and their are plenty of deterant options available if the pilot is so inclined to choose. A little bit anecdotal here, but the only times I've ever lost a hauler were in low and nul (excluding that one time I learned the rules about entering hostile faction space in highsec). both losses were above 500mil too (freighter+lowsec=badidea). The only real difference I would argue is you cant use JF jump drive between systems. Currently I can make about 10 Mill. an hour in a barge mining ore. You stated you make between 40-60 Mill. an hour. So you make 4-6 times more than I do. I also am acknowledging that transportation is riskier for you in Null. My income is now going to slip. I will be making less and your numbers will rise you will be making more. BTW, our haulers also are increasingly at risk of being ganked. It's not a zero-risk process. Can you honestly tell me your miners/industry are currently so hobbled that these changes are necessary? I would like some details on that setup before i try to hazard any guesses why the income is so low. I'm not even matching any numbers like that on any of my tools. Closest I could get is omber, which is currently the worst ore to mine for value.
The problem these changes address wasn't just the isk/hr comparison. It was the large disparity of the minerals in high end ores. If you were to mine everything you could get your hands on you would end up with a massive overstock of high end mins, which surely doesn't encourage the kind of sov space use that is being expected.
currently you have little choice, but to mine the best you can get and ship to empire so you can use the isk to buy what you need. I don't have the stats on all builds, however meg and zyd take up an extremely small portion of the bill. This is one of the things explained in the OP, the price changes on final products will be almost negligible, whereas if you have serious amounts of it in surplus, you are going to earn quite a bit more for it. While at the same time, some extra minerals are being removed with some higher volume of others added, to make the ores themselves line up more closely with actual manufacturing demands. Meaning it will be easier than before to use your own space to your advantage.
In case you weren't aware, the low end ores typically take up the vast majority of the cost in any assembly line. anywhere from 90% of the cost and 95% of the volume depending on what you build (im currently looking at the spread on a super which has higher ratios than mentioned). |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1600
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 10:24:09 -
[283] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote: I would also ask CCP to investigate the possible insider trading of Zydrine and Megacyte prior to the announcement of these changes being made public. I believe that the there may have been large spikes in the purchases of both minerals before CCP Fozzie went onto Twitch with the initial announcement. Has this been looked into?
There's nothing to investigate. These changes were announced first at Fanfest. You are aware that anyone can watch the Fanfest stream, without going to Iceland, right?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Simon Alfrir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 10:29:26 -
[284] - Quote
I'm in a retriever solo mining. 2 strip miner IIs, 2 mining crystal IIs, 5 mining drone IIs when I can get them out. My guess is you are getting rorqual boosts and maybe in an exhumer. I am getting my exhumer going in a few more weeks but the rorq is of course not allowed in Highsec. I could try to find a free Orca boost but there goes the idea of solo mining.
Again, are you hurting that badly in Nullsec where this change is necessary? I don't mind a little pain if it helps balance things out but I don't think it's needed given all the things you guys already get that we can't use due to CCPs heavy hand. These changes seem far too large and are from my standpoint unnecessary. I don't expect it to add any additional players to Null given the lack of recruitment posts on the board for miners. I've been checking and it's fairly silent unless you want to go with a small outfit and have a big target on your back. Or should we pay up and become renters? That's not my play style at all. |
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
69
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 10:39:58 -
[285] - Quote
When will we see mining redesign?! Mining drone redesign (srsly, their speed...)? Tell us CCP! Please... |
Simon Alfrir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 10:40:24 -
[286] - Quote
Querns wrote:Simon Alfrir wrote: I would also ask CCP to investigate the possible insider trading of Zydrine and Megacyte prior to the announcement of these changes being made public. I believe that the there may have been large spikes in the purchases of both minerals before CCP Fozzie went onto Twitch with the initial announcement. Has this been looked into?
There's nothing to investigate. These changes were announced first at Fanfest. You are aware that anyone can watch the Fanfest stream, without going to Iceland, right?
That is for CCP to determine, not you. I am not the only one who has questioned the trades therefore it deserves being looked into. |
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
178
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 11:27:57 -
[287] - Quote
my sheets show veldspar at 40m per hour scordite at 50m per hour
where as spodumain is also at 50m per hour, mercoxit is 50m per hour, dark ochre 50m per hour.
before the announcement, abc's were averaging 40m per hour.
this figures are baised on an exhumers 5 hulk with bonuses, no drones or implants.
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1600
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 11:57:18 -
[288] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote:Querns wrote:Simon Alfrir wrote: I would also ask CCP to investigate the possible insider trading of Zydrine and Megacyte prior to the announcement of these changes being made public. I believe that the there may have been large spikes in the purchases of both minerals before CCP Fozzie went onto Twitch with the initial announcement. Has this been looked into?
There's nothing to investigate. These changes were announced first at Fanfest. You are aware that anyone can watch the Fanfest stream, without going to Iceland, right? That is for CCP to determine, not you. I am not the only one who has questioned the trades therefore it deserves being looked into. It's up to CCP to determine whether or not they announced the changes at Fanfest?
I mean, shit, I'll admit to buying the hell out of highends after the Fanfest announcement. It was a smart buy and one was an idiot for not getting in on a painfully obvious thing.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1600
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 12:34:10 -
[289] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:outside of blue donut How do you get "outside" a blue donut? A donut implies that all of nullsec is blue to each other. Saying that areas are "outside" of it fundamentally implies that not all of nullsec is blue to each other.
Which is it?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1097
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 12:40:24 -
[290] - Quote
Querns wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:outside of blue donut How do you get "outside" a blue donut? A donut implies that all of nullsec is blue to each other. Saying that areas are "outside" of it fundamentally implies that not all of nullsec is blue to each other. Which is it?
Perhaps it's the bit cut out of the middle and set aside so that hisec can fit in the hole
Maybe that bit is where the Drifters came from |
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1600
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 12:55:27 -
[291] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote: Again, are you hurting that badly in Nullsec where this change is necessary? I don't mind a little pain if it helps balance things out but I don't think it's needed given all the things you guys already get that we can't use due to CCPs heavy hand. These changes seem far too large and are from my standpoint unnecessary. I don't expect it to add any additional players to Null given the lack of recruitment posts on the board for miners. I've been checking and it's fairly silent unless you want to go with a small outfit and have a big target on your back. Or should we pay up and become renters? That's not my play style at all.
CCP's goal is to reduce the reliance of nullsec on the almighty Jump Freighter, and its reliance on Jita. To do so, more self-sufficiency is required.
Nullsec groups tend not to recruit miners because miners don't actively contribute to the defense of an empire. Furthermore, mining is not a particularly difficult thing to train; PvPers will typically train PvE alts or train PvE skills as a secondary objective on their main. Right now, it's also not necessary GÇö a single pilot with 10 JF characters can do the work of hundreds of miners by JFing in compressed ore. Additionally, dedicated industrialists tend to be the worst drama llamas known to eve online (second only to FCs.)
Regarding "all the things you guys already get," you vastly underestimate the amount of work and will needed to keep an area of nullsec. You need military power to take and hold space. You need logistical power to deploy and maintain sov structures, and to fuel towers. You need a steady income stream to pay sov bills. (One particular upgrade costs 600m a month to keep online!) You need diplomatic power to maintain good standings with your neighbors and to put out brush fires between members. For all that, you get moderately nicer mining and ratting.
If your playstyle is solo, more power to you, but you are playing a game in which cooperation is vastly rewarded. CCP will always reward cooperation over solo play due to its demonstrable effect on retention.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1600
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 12:57:35 -
[292] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Querns wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:outside of blue donut How do you get "outside" a blue donut? A donut implies that all of nullsec is blue to each other. Saying that areas are "outside" of it fundamentally implies that not all of nullsec is blue to each other. Which is it? Perhaps it's the bit cut out of the middle and set aside so that hisec can fit in the hole Maybe that bit is where the Drifters came from So, Drifters are the filling of a blue jelly donut?
(i'm hungry)
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
sackofwine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 13:27:28 -
[293] - Quote
Bah this reminds me of when ccp killed drone poo. All that is going to happen is prices go up, and null seccers mine the snot out of the anomalies-- and then prices will crash. Long term we will be lucky if megacyte stays in the 1300-1500 range and zydrine in the 700-900 range. Whoop-ti-do. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1097
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 13:32:23 -
[294] - Quote
Querns wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Querns wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:outside of blue donut How do you get "outside" a blue donut? A donut implies that all of nullsec is blue to each other. Saying that areas are "outside" of it fundamentally implies that not all of nullsec is blue to each other. Which is it? Perhaps it's the bit cut out of the middle and set aside so that hisec can fit in the hole Maybe that bit is where the Drifters came from So, Drifters are the filling of a blue jelly donut? (i'm hungry)
I was thinking more along the lines of strwberry jam once they're pulverized :D
General interest for folks here...say hello to the future:
http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_038654/bae-systems-newest-naval-railgun-prototype-fires-first-shot?_afrLoop=3133069812279000&_afrWindowMode=0&_afrWindowId=null#!%40%40%3F_afrWindowId%3Dnull%26_afrLoop%3D3133069812279000%26_afrWindowMode%3D0%26_adf.ctrl-state%3Dpnziqtu4a_4 |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1717
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 14:19:41 -
[295] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote:I saw the spikes 8 hours after the announcement on Twitch. It appears the purchases were made before the show. They are still visible, more so with Meg.
It's possible speculation from Fanfest but it appears they did not purchase Morphite and only bought large quantities of Megacyte and Zydrine. There is probably little that can be done but it looks very suspicious and below board to me. This seemed as good a place as any to raise my suspicions about it. I think it also demonstrates how drastic these changes are to the game.Let's let them sit on those assets for a few more months and slow down these changes.
We were investing last year, I have called multiple hits for goonkind in the past few months. How would you explain this behavior without LEAKS OMGOMG.
Oh right, because smart people predict what CCP is going to do either way.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
106
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 15:15:27 -
[296] - Quote
Simon Alfrir wrote: I would also ask CCP to investigate the possible insider trading of Zydrine and Megacyte prior to the announcement of these changes being made public. I believe that the there may have been large spikes in the purchases of both minerals before CCP Fozzie went onto Twitch with the initial announcement. Has this been looked into?
Oh, HAHAHAHA!
So you missed my March 20 thread in Science & Trade - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=413489&find=unread ?
And then you missed another March 20th thread in Market Discussion - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=413509&find=unread ?
I am indeed very sorry for placing large volume spikes on your charts.
Xaxaxa
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
|
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
186
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 15:51:48 -
[297] - Quote
Ncc 1709 wrote:my sheets show veldspar at 40m per hour scordite at 50m per hour
where as spodumain is also at 50m per hour, mercoxit is 50m per hour, dark ochre 50m per hour.
before the announcement, abc's were averaging 40m per hour.
this figures are baised on an exhumers 5 hulk with bonuses, no drones or implants.
I don't have any experience of revenue from null-sec mining so I can't comment on your workings for Spodumain, Mercoxit, & Dark Ochre.
On the other hand if you actually want to sell your mined materials , even in compressed format which is optimal, you will not get 40 million ISK p/h from mining even Dense Veldspar let alone the standard Veldspar variant. Using an absolute maxed skilled Orca/Hulk combo but without a Michi fitted you are talking 25 million ISK p/h mining Veldspar and Scordite will bring in less than this. Throwing ****** statistics out like those I have quoted from your post above will not get you anywhere.
Regarding insider trading I'm reminded of the famous quote from the main character in 'House of Cards'. A lot of stirring GSF forum posts regarding Megacyte & Zydrine price increases came before CCP Fozzies Fanfest announcement that, in all but name, GSF had convinced him to do the announced ore changes in null-sec. I'll leave it up to you to decide if this is the case or not. |
Anhenka
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
1413
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 16:20:35 -
[298] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:Ncc 1709 wrote:my sheets show veldspar at 40m per hour scordite at 50m per hour
where as spodumain is also at 50m per hour, mercoxit is 50m per hour, dark ochre 50m per hour.
before the announcement, abc's were averaging 40m per hour.
this figures are baised on an exhumers 5 hulk with bonuses, no drones or implants.
I don't have any experience of revenue from null-sec mining so I can't comment on your workings for Spodumain, Mercoxit, & Dark Ochre. On the other hand if you actually want to sell your mined materials , even in compressed format which is optimal, you will not get 40 million ISK p/h from mining even Dense Veldspar let alone the standard Veldspar variant. Using an absolute maxed skilled Orca/Hulk combo but without a Michi fitted you are talking 25 million ISK p/h mining Veldspar and Scordite will bring in less than this. Throwing ****** statistics out like those I have quoted from your post above will not get you anywhere. Regarding insider trading I'm reminded of the famous quote from the main character in 'House of Cards'. A lot of stirring GSF forum posts regarding Megacyte & Zydrine price increases came before CCP Fozzies Fanfest announcement that, in all but name, GSF had convinced him to do the announced ore changes in null-sec. I'll leave it up to you to decide if this is the case or not.
1: Are your figures "paper figures" or yield in practice?. Because due to the huge nature of the rocks in nullsec, actual yield is far higher due to barely losing any ore to partial cycles.
From a few minutes of EFT, I get 3100 (rounded down from 3139) m3 per minute on a Hulk with one MLU and rorqual boosts, using t2 Veldspar crystals.
That's 186,000 m3 per hour of Veldspar if everything was perfect. Using mineral values pulled off of the Cerlestes table for today (And before you ask, yes accounting for the new not perfect refining efficiency), Veldspar is worth 203 isk per m3 in minerals.
Ehh.... 186,000 * 203 = 37.75 million per hour in Trit. Given that Trit prices in nullsec tend to run 10%ish higher, his 40 million per hour is basically correct, if you do not account for human error in losing ore to over-cycling. Which happen far less when the rocks you mine make highsec ones look like pebbles.
|
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
186
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 16:23:20 -
[299] - Quote
Querns wrote:Sienna Vanjarc wrote:I understand and really like the intention of making sov-null more self-sufficient, and increasing income for nullsec miners (to fix risk/reward). That change is needed. But i have the fear this change will reduce income of highsec-miners, possibly even making it not worthwile. This is not needed by any means, as their income is very low already. So you might want to rework the highsec-ores too.
Besides, i want to suggest, that the ore-specialized mining-anomalys (not ice-belts and the ihub-sites), were scannable grav-sites again. This would especially be usefull for mining in lowsec and npc-null, where you don't have unlimited resources like sov 0.0 but the same kind of risk. Folks mined the hell out of highsec back when trit was under 3 isk a unit. They'll be fine.
I think there are two possible outcomes from these mining changes:
1) The nullsec community generally views miners in New Eden as some kind of Dalit sub-class and would rather not board a mining vessel. The existing ones who do still mine in null-sec will operate as they do now exporting high ends to high sec and enjoy increased profits from the higher prices. High sec will continue as it does now. This is the more likely outcome.
2) The null-sec community will take advantage of the changes and industry will flourish in null-sec. Prices of low end minerals on the market will collapse falling to values present a few years ago. A fair percentage of miners in high sec have either left New Eden or switched profession, to mission running for example, after the ruling on certain usage of ISBoxer type software. A potential 40% drop in revenue from mining high-sec rocks will result in even more miners moving to other professions and the mining career option becoming a peasants trade. This is the less likely outcome.
PS. Please note I fully support CCPs decision on ISBoxer type software use and would have liked to see ALL usage of these types of software made illegal under the EULA. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1600
|
Posted - 2015.04.17 16:23:22 -
[300] - Quote
Except that there will be no more veldspar in ore prospecting sites. :V
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 26 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |