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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1161	Posted - 2015.05.15 11:46:56 - [241] - Quote the sig is too high .. dessies sig needs too be lower than logi cruisers sig .. that and logi sig rad should be higher too. Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
Janeway84 Def Squadron Pride Before Fall 165	Posted - 2015.05.15 11:51:15 - [242] - Quote Meh I can imagine using this as a fast attack dessy like i have a seboed corax for jumping on unsuspecting hacking frigates or sloppy cov op frigates Does it get any decent scan res with a t2 sebo and in the right mode? Otherwise it could perhaps work as a more exciting C1 wh pve boat than cerberus / caracal with its low hp tank
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 602	Posted - 2015.05.15 11:59:58 - [243] - Quote Scan res is 300 base * 1.25 Skill = 375 and 750 in Sharpshooter mode. Svipul has 375 base, with 940 in SS. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1038	Posted - 2015.05.15 16:34:57 - [244] - Quote With proper skills, getting about those sigs: 2MSE - mwd - LML: 83m sig 2MASB - dp - rockets: 74m sig An MSE-svipul sits at 64m. An active tanked svipul sits at around 55m. Since the svipul is about twice as fast out of propulsion, and ~50% faster in propulsion mode, this is quite some huge discrepancy. To add to that, the jackdaw is not really moving or sigtanking anything in defensive mode, being just a tad faster than a cane. So propmode is several times tankier compared to defensive when AB'ing. The big hit to the nuts here: Sigtanking is made worse by making it slow. But since that's not enough yet, better give it a huge sig, too. The ship is still capable to do things, but when flying the jackdaw it really raises the question why you put up with this and not take a svipul instead.
Terra Chrall Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2015.05.15 17:34:28 - [245] - Quote Harvey James wrote: the HP bonus is out of place on a T3 ship its supposed to offer versatility and adaptability, thus the modes if you want the extra tank , mobility etc.. having hp baked in violates this theme, tracking or even just run with 1 bonus is the logical choice here. No it is baked in so they can justify low power grid. People might cry "I can't fit enough shield extenders" and they would say "yeah but we made each SE more effective so you don't need as many." Also we don't want cookie cutter bonuses. Having something different is nice for a change.
Terra Chrall Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2015.05.15 17:38:43 - [246] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: I really don't see the jackdaw being as bad as people make it out to be. Most certainly it is underwhelming compared to the other T3Ds, but a small gang of them have terrifying application to that range and volley. Then in Propmode, you burn closer to or further from something you want to point. ... pull range and switch over to sharpshooter ..., while one of your mates takes over tackle ... instead of clinching a target, you can zip around and screen heavier ships while applying dps to primaries half across the grid. What are the targets in this scenario, Battle Cruiser and up? Cause almost anything else can prevent you zipping in or out on them.
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 249	Posted - 2015.05.15 18:16:15 - [247] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: With proper skills, getting about those sigs: 2MSE - mwd - LML: 83m sig 2MASB - dp - rockets: 74m sig An MSE-svipul sits at 64m. An active tanked svipul sits at around 55m. Since the svipul is about twice as fast out of propulsion, and ~50% faster in propulsion mode, this is quite some huge discrepancy. To add to that, the jackdaw is not really moving or sigtanking anything in defensive mode, being just a tad faster than a cane. So propmode is several times tankier compared to defensive when AB'ing. The big hit to the nuts here: Sigtanking is made worse by making it slow. But since that's not enough yet, better give it a huge sig, too. The ship is still capable to do things, but when flying the jackdaw it really raises the question why you put up with this and not take a svipul instead. The only big hit to the nuts is the one svipul deserves. It ought to be gutted to the jackdaw level and then buffed a little if it stops seeing any usage after that. Theres been too many ships released in a cancerous state in the past year.
Terra Chrall Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2015.05.15 18:24:35 - [248] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: With proper skills, getting about those sigs: 2MSE - mwd - LML: 83m sig 2MASB - dp - rockets: 74m sig An MSE-svipul sits at 64m. An active tanked svipul sits at around 55m. Since the svipul is about twice as fast out of propulsion, and ~50% faster in propulsion mode, this is quite some huge discrepancy. To add to that, the jackdaw is not really moving or sigtanking anything in defensive mode, being just a tad faster than a cane. So propmode is several times tankier compared to defensive when AB'ing. The big hit to the nuts here: Sigtanking is made worse by making it slow. But since that's not enough yet, better give it a huge sig, too. The ship is still capable to do things, but when flying the jackdaw it really raises the question why you put up with this and not take a svipul instead. I get the feeling that they went with the base stats to be really lack luster so that no tactical mode would be overpowered. Unfortunately this make performance while not in those modes kinda bad. I mean to use Sharpshooter or Defense, you are going to be not just be slow but lack agility too. Align time while not in prop mode is over 9 seconds, 10 ticks. It is like they made it worse than it should be so that the mode buff was not too much. I would rather have a smaller agility buff and better base agility while having the same max agility while in prop mode. My feeling on the base stats- Defense: average, Propulsion: below average, Offense: average. And then the modes take it to: Defense: above average, Propulsion: average, Offense: above average Which makes it feel underwhelming, since you are never really good at any one thing, can only be good at 1 thing at a time, and in prop mode you are just average at everything. I would like to see 2x average 1x above average as the base. So that in any mode you are good at that role and in one mode very good while average in the other areas. If this is supposed to be a slow tanky ship then: Offense should remain about the same: Base>Average, Mode>Above Average. Deffense should be buffed: Base>Above Average, Mode>Excellent Propulsion buffed: Base>Average, Mode>Above Average I think what holds overall defense back is the signature coupled with the need for a MWD for any reasonable speed. I think if the sig was dropped to 60, base speed increased to 190, and better base inertia that could make up a lot of the shortcomings without making it OP.
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 249	Posted - 2015.05.15 18:38:16 - [249] - Quote Terra Chrall wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: With proper skills, getting about those sigs: 2MSE - mwd - LML: 83m sig 2MASB - dp - rockets: 74m sig An MSE-svipul sits at 64m. An active tanked svipul sits at around 55m. Since the svipul is about twice as fast out of propulsion, and ~50% faster in propulsion mode, this is quite some huge discrepancy. To add to that, the jackdaw is not really moving or sigtanking anything in defensive mode, being just a tad faster than a cane. So propmode is several times tankier compared to defensive when AB'ing. The big hit to the nuts here: Sigtanking is made worse by making it slow. But since that's not enough yet, better give it a huge sig, too. The ship is still capable to do things, but when flying the jackdaw it really raises the question why you put up with this and not take a svipul instead. I get the feeling that they went with the base stats to be really lack luster so that no tactical mode would be overpowered. Unfortunately this make performance while not in those modes kinda bad. I mean to use Sharpshooter or Defense, you are going to be not just be slow but lack agility too. Align time while not in prop mode is over 9 seconds, 10 ticks. It is like they made it worse than it should be so that the mode buff was not too much. I would rather have a smaller agility buff and better base agility while having the same max agility while in prop mode. My feeling on the base stats- Defense: average, Propulsion: below average, Offense: average. And then the modes take it to: Defense: above average, Propulsion: average, Offense: above average Which makes it feel underwhelming, since you are never really good at any one thing, can only be good at 1 thing at a time, and in prop mode you are just average at everything. I would like to see 2x average 1x above average as the base. So that in any mode you are good at that role and in one mode very good while average in the other areas. If this is supposed to be a slow tanky ship then: Offense should remain about the same: Base>Average, Mode>Above Average. Deffense should be buffed: Base>Above Average, Mode>Excellent Propulsion buffed: Base>Average, Mode>Above Average I think what holds overall defense back is the signature coupled with the need for a MWD for any reasonable speed. I think if the sig was dropped to 60, base speed increased to 190, and better base inertia that could make up a lot of the shortcomings without making it OP. It has above average defense against its own weight class and smaller, and thats before you take defensive mode into account. I cant see why people expect a hull to be amazing at fighting frigates dessies and cruisers all at the same time.
Terra Chrall Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2015.05.15 21:30:15 - [250] - Quote Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Terra Chrall wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: With proper skills, getting about those sigs: 2MSE - mwd - LML: 83m sig 2MASB - dp - rockets: 74m sig An MSE-svipul sits at 64m. An active tanked svipul sits at around 55m. Since the svipul is about twice as fast out of propulsion, and ~50% faster in propulsion mode, this is quite some huge discrepancy. To add to that, the jackdaw is not really moving or sigtanking anything in defensive mode, being just a tad faster than a cane. So propmode is several times tankier compared to defensive when AB'ing. The big hit to the nuts here: Sigtanking is made worse by making it slow. But since that's not enough yet, better give it a huge sig, too. The ship is still capable to do things, but when flying the jackdaw it really raises the question why you put up with this and not take a svipul instead. I get the feeling that they went with the base stats to be really lack luster so that no tactical mode would be overpowered. Unfortunately this make performance while not in those modes kinda bad. I mean to use Sharpshooter or Defense, you are going to be not just be slow but lack agility too. Align time while not in prop mode is over 9 seconds, 10 ticks. It is like they made it worse than it should be so that the mode buff was not too much. I would rather have a smaller agility buff and better base agility while having the same max agility while in prop mode. My feeling on the base stats- Defense: average, Propulsion: below average, Offense: average. And then the modes take it to: Defense: above average, Propulsion: average, Offense: above average Which makes it feel underwhelming, since you are never really good at any one thing, can only be good at 1 thing at a time, and in prop mode you are just average at everything. I would like to see 2x average 1x above average as the base. So that in any mode you are good at that role and in one mode very good while average in the other areas. If this is supposed to be a slow tanky ship then: Offense should remain about the same: Base>Average, Mode>Above Average. Deffense should be buffed: Base>Above Average, Mode>Excellent Propulsion buffed: Base>Average, Mode>Above Average I think what holds overall defense back is the signature coupled with the need for a MWD for any reasonable speed. I think if the sig was dropped to 60, base speed increased to 190, and better base inertia that could make up a lot of the shortcomings without making it OP. It has above average defense against its own weight class and smaller, and thats before you take defensive mode into account. I cant see why people expect a hull to be amazing at fighting frigates dessies and cruisers all at the same time. The shield tank is above average, but the signature and lack of speed is bellow average. Which makes its overall defense just average in my view. My complaint is, that on paper, it does not look "amazing at fighting frigates dessies and cruisers all at the same time." It looks like a ship that will require a lot of skill to compete against T2 frigates and cruisers. It will probably be very strong against T1 cruiser and down. Is it so slow that frigates will dictate range and kiting frigates will be a real threat. The speed, DPS, and small signatures of the other T3D, and AF should allow them to brawl against the Jackdaw effectively. Scram range kiting cruisers are a real threat as the Jack will be hard pressed to escape a web+sram. And I don't see the Jackdaw being any better than a T2 HAC and will need to constantly shift modes to have a chance against a competent pilot in a HAC. So I don't want it to be amazing. I want it to have a chance at being good. Missile ships rely on rigs to change the application of their missile. So a Jackdaw will have to choose if it wants damage, application, range, tank, or fitting rigs. The velocity bonus of sharpshooter mode only lets the missile catch the target, it does not help apply damage. So most frigates with a prop mods are taking a significant reduction in damage before resists. The fitting of the Jackdaw will determine what it is really good at. I want it to be at least average in the areas that it is not really good at. It is supposed to be a versatile T3 ship that uses its modes to switch what it is good at. And for it to achieve that goal, that means not starting with such low base numbers that it is actually bad at something while not in a that mode. The speed, agility, scan res are all worse than a T1 Destroyer. The signature is at the high end but not the worst. I'd like to see stats that are a little closer to T1 levels and bonuses in tactical mode that make them strong in that mode not just a little better. Of the stats the shield tank with T3 resists is the best thing it has. Now bring it up slightly in some other areas to make that mean something and we have a worthwhile T3D. You can fit the Jack to be amazing at range in sharpshooter mode or to have amazing tank in or out of defense mode, but it will never have amazing dps or speed and to make it amazing at any thing you make it lacking in most other areas. You won't be able to fit it to be amazing at multiple jobs at the same time. But it should be able to be amazing at something in one of the modes without making so sub par in the others.

Fourteen Maken The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted. 160	Posted - 2015.05.16 00:08:17 - [251] - Quote Hakaari Inkuran wrote: It has above average defense against its own weight class and smaller, and thats before you take defensive mode into account. I cant see why people expect a hull to be amazing at fighting frigates dessies and cruisers all at the same time. Maybe because a benchmark has already been set by the other two and this one is hardcoded by the designer to be weaker in every way? The jackdaw will have to use fitting slots just to achieve the base stats of the others, if you want the same lock speed you need to fit an extra sebo, if you want range control you need to fit 1 or 2 extra webs, if you want the same dps you need to fit an extra bcu, you need to fit em hardeners because of the em hole as well. Whereas the other two start with all this goodness designed into the hull.
Squid Cake Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.05.16 00:14:34 - [252] - Quote Solj RichPopolous wrote: Altrue wrote: The signature radius worries me, especially given that it won't be able to fit an oversized AB given both the low base speed and incredibly low PWG. So it will almost certainly be an MWD, which is rather sad given that an agility bonus really has an impact on 10mn ABs. I will find a way to 10MN AB it or I won't buy the ship, simple as that. I've been waiting awhile for this ship hoping I could finally add something to my very small collection of viable ships in the game, guess its not going to happen . looks at your KB, last 3 losses Garmur, Tengu Checks recent, has flown nothing but Gila and Svipul Now understand what it is you want Sorry, looks you aren't getting another lowrisk OP missile boat. Guess you'll just have to make do with the other "viable" ships you currently use. The tantrums in this thread are ridiculous.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1042	Posted - 2015.05.16 02:56:45 - [253] - Quote The fitting I've been trying most had (linked) about 6k shield hp with 75% resists in defensive mode and a 40m sig I believe. So with some help, you can get those useful numbers. It had a nano and no dcu. Been running with empty head and my TQ-links with skirmish mindlink. In propmode, you make about 290m/s boatin and 2.5km/s with mwd, with the agility of a crow and a cap stable point. A bit awkward is the stacking of velocity modifiers, defensive mode still makes ~1.9k but the agility takes a massive hit, it's however useful if you got to pilot manually anyways and benefit from resists and sig while working around your turn rate, retaining most of the raw speed. If you do something like rockets, pith c-type med and c-type 10mn AB, you get about 1500m/s defensive, 2km/s propmode with links. You can actually accelerate to ~1.6k in prop and then switch. With HG snkaes, speeds with no mindlink have been 2km/s defensive and 2.4km/s in prop. Again the weird stacking. Defensive+links got a 36m sig with that speed as an argument, and rockets are solid at applying damage. But that's just snakes+links+any ship. The lml fit though, it's very tanky and very much not able to break serious tanks on its own. If you take a few or more though, their range and tank starts to matter a lot more.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 612	Posted - 2015.05.16 03:34:57 - [254] - Quote Terra Chrall wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: With proper skills, getting about those sigs: 2MSE - mwd - LML: 83m sig 2MASB - dp - rockets: 74m sig An MSE-svipul sits at 64m. An active tanked svipul sits at around 55m. Since the svipul is about twice as fast out of propulsion, and ~50% faster in propulsion mode, this is quite some huge discrepancy. To add to that, the jackdaw is not really moving or sigtanking anything in defensive mode, being just a tad faster than a cane. So propmode is several times tankier compared to defensive when AB'ing. The big hit to the nuts here: Sigtanking is made worse by making it slow. But since that's not enough yet, better give it a huge sig, too. The ship is still capable to do things, but when flying the jackdaw it really raises the question why you put up with this and not take a svipul instead. I get the feeling that they went with the base stats to be really lack luster so that no tactical mode would be overpowered. That is exactly the case - Confessor employs all 3 modes to even function properly. Quote: Unfortunately this make performance while not in those modes kinda bad. That's the whole point of T3 generalisation. Svipul in non-stop Propulsion mode notwithstanding. The only thing that needs to happen now is: Reduce both the Confessor's and Svipul's Prop mode velocity bonus from 66.6% to 50%. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 84	Posted - 2015.05.16 04:39:43 - [255] - Quote Only 2 lowslots? Where am I supposed to put the armor for the EWAR fitting... On a more serious note, I like the ship and would like it more with a tad bit more PG. Less reliance on the rigs for anything non-missile related. I can live with slow-pokey if this thing hits hard. Otherwise I ain't gonna live long in it. Now if the Hecate gets released without these kind of tight fitting restrictions...
Saerin Korvalu Scope Works 21	Posted - 2015.05.16 09:50:57 - [256] - Quote When T3 destroyers were announced, it was said that they'd be a different take on Tech 3 versatility and unpredictability, hence the 'Tactical Destroyer' class. Now we're seeing these 'Tactical' destroyers being placed into specific niches rather than what they were originally intended for. I understand that the Jackdaw is supposed to be the slowest T3 destroyer, but having the native speed on the level of battlecruisers? This eliminates the Jackdaw's viability as a kiting ship, and nudges the ship towards brawling. As I've stated before, these ships are meant to be versatile and unpredictable. The Confessor and Svipul have the ability to kite (and based on rough concept of stats given by CCP, the Hecate) unlike the Jackdaw. You'd need to go far out of your way to make this a viable kiting vessel to the point that switching from propulsion mode would be a death sentence. Even when you make the ship a brawling vessel, it still doesn't hold a candle to the abilities of the Confessor and Svipul. In short: Why fly the Jackdaw when the other T3 destroyers outclass it in almost every way?
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1076	Posted - 2015.05.16 10:20:38 - [257] - Quote Saerin Korvalu wrote: When T3 destroyers were announced, it was said that they'd be a different take on Tech 3 versatility and unpredictability, hence the 'Tactical Destroyer' class. Now we're seeing these 'Tactical' destroyers being placed into specific niches rather than what they were originally intended for. I understand that the Jackdaw is supposed to be the slowest T3 destroyer, but having the native speed on the level of battlecruisers? This eliminates the Jackdaw's viability as a kiting ship, and nudges the ship towards brawling. As I've stated before, these ships are meant to be versatile and unpredictable. The Confessor and Svipul have the ability to kite (and based on rough concept of stats given by CCP, the Hecate) unlike the Jackdaw. You'd need to go far out of your way to make this a viable kiting vessel to the point that switching from propulsion mode would be a death sentence. Even when you make the ship a brawling vessel, it still doesn't hold a candle to the abilities of the Confessor and Svipul. In short: Why fly the Jackdaw when the other T3 destroyers outclass it in almost every way? I don't think that matters. the mode thing is supposed to be actual flexibility on the field, not the less interesting 'you can use any fit you like' type. the confessor and svipul only brawl better because CCP still have their heads up their asses regarding oversized prop mods.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 537	Posted - 2015.05.16 10:41:59 - [258] - Quote One thing I noticed on the jackdaw is a 137km lock range in sniper mode. But you'd only hit about 100km with t2 velocity rigs so I'm at a loss? Why even give ships that can't benefit from so much range that much range to start with? Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1076	Posted - 2015.05.16 10:49:38 - [259] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: One thing I noticed on the jackdaw is a 137km lock range in sniper mode. But you'd only hit about 100km with t2 velocity rigs so I'm at a loss? Why even give ships that can't benefit from so much range that much range to start with? I think it's their dumb way of giving resistance to damps. they did it with recon ships. pilgrim had 12km range, but like 150km lock range.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 537	Posted - 2015.05.16 11:03:34 - [260] - Quote I see. It would be sad if dual-damp condors started killing off t3d's after all, not that someone won't get killed like that anyway. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.

Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 537	Posted - 2015.05.16 12:55:25 - [261] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: I see. It would be sad if dual-damp condors started killing off t3d's after all, not that someone won't get killed like that anyway. I've managed to find a fit that kind of works. Currently 7 kills no losses, victims so far are 3x jackdaws, 2xsvipul, dragoon, confessor. I'll post the fit here when it dies. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 254	Posted - 2015.05.16 13:16:19 - [262] - Quote Saerin Korvalu wrote: When T3 destroyers were announced, it was said that they'd be a different take on Tech 3 versatility and unpredictability, hence the 'Tactical Destroyer' class. Now we're seeing these 'Tactical' destroyers being placed into specific niches rather than what they were originally intended for. I understand that the Jackdaw is supposed to be the slowest T3 destroyer, but having the native speed on the level of battlecruisers? This eliminates the Jackdaw's viability as a kiting ship, and nudges the ship towards brawling. As I've stated before, these ships are meant to be versatile and unpredictable. The Confessor and Svipul have the ability to kite (and based on rough concept of stats given by CCP, the Hecate) unlike the Jackdaw. You'd need to go far out of your way to make this a viable kiting vessel to the point that switching from propulsion mode would be a death sentence. Even when you make the ship a brawling vessel, it still doesn't hold a candle to the abilities of the Confessor and Svipul. In short: Why fly the Jackdaw when the other T3 destroyers outclass it in almost every way? Because the others need another nerf and the jackdaw is a fine ship as it stands.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 537	Posted - 2015.05.16 13:27:34 - [263] - Quote Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Saerin Korvalu wrote: When T3 destroyers were announced, it was said that they'd be a different take on Tech 3 versatility and unpredictability, hence the 'Tactical Destroyer' class. Even when you make the ship a brawling vessel, it still doesn't hold a candle to the abilities of the Confessor and Svipul. In short: Why fly the Jackdaw when the other T3 destroyers outclass it in almost every way? Because the others need another nerf and the jackdaw is a fine ship as it stands. I don't necessarily think the ship is fine but it sure isn't great. Anything with more speed will be able to beat this ship. It's not a revelation to point that out but I don't think cruisers should be able to catch and kill it. If a small ship has to sacrifice so much speed then it should be compensated accordingly and in this case I don't think it has. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 255	Posted - 2015.05.16 13:31:56 - [264] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Saerin Korvalu wrote: When T3 destroyers were announced, it was said that they'd be a different take on Tech 3 versatility and unpredictability, hence the 'Tactical Destroyer' class. Even when you make the ship a brawling vessel, it still doesn't hold a candle to the abilities of the Confessor and Svipul. In short: Why fly the Jackdaw when the other T3 destroyers outclass it in almost every way? Because the others need another nerf and the jackdaw is a fine ship as it stands. I don't necessarily think the ship is fine but it sure isn't great. Anything with more speed will be able to beat this ship. It's not a revelation to point that out but I don't think cruisers should be able to catch and kill it. If a small ship has to sacrifice so much speed then it should be compensated accordingly and in this case I don't think it has. And how will that ship break this brick tank before it dies to ten launchers?
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1076	Posted - 2015.05.16 13:57:18 - [265] - Quote pretty amazing how long destroyers have been slower than cruisers for. it makes no sense whatsoever. if it's ok for dictors to go as fast as they do, it should be ok for T1s to go that fast. I'm not saying it is though - sensible gaps between classes would be nice, without just buffing everything.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 537	Posted - 2015.05.16 14:11:27 - [266] - Quote Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Caleb Seremshur wrote: Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Saerin Korvalu wrote: When T3 destroyers were announced, it was said that they'd be a different take on Tech 3 versatility and unpredictability, hence the 'Tactical Destroyer' class. Even when you make the ship a brawling vessel, it still doesn't hold a candle to the abilities of the Confessor and Svipul. In short: Why fly the Jackdaw when the other T3 destroyers outclass it in almost every way? Because the others need another nerf and the jackdaw is a fine ship as it stands. I don't necessarily think the ship is fine but it sure isn't great. Anything with more speed will be able to beat this ship. It's not a revelation to point that out but I don't think cruisers should be able to catch and kill it. If a small ship has to sacrifice so much speed then it should be compensated accordingly and in this case I don't think it has. And how will that ship break this brick tank before it dies to ten launchers? Breaking 24k brick tank? You mean by using like your superior dps and cap pool? T1 cruisers might find themselves challenged by T3D but really no with double the dps available and a much larger cap pool I just don't see it being a problem. Gonna jump on sisi right now and see if I can't Caracal a jackdaw to death Thorax a jackdaw Rupture Omen This is what 64 mil sp in combat skills nets me, the ability to fly just about anything I like and to test for myself. I'll return with the results. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
Solarus Explorer The Church of Awesome Heiian Conglomerate 6	Posted - 2015.05.16 18:00:18 - [267] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: pretty amazing how long destroyers have been slower than cruisers for. it makes no sense whatsoever. if it's ok for dictors to go as fast as they do, it should be ok for T1s to go that fast. I'm not saying it is though - sensible gaps between classes would be nice, without just buffing everything. ^ What this guy said..... dessies should be faster than cruisers. It makes no sense for a bigger ship to be able to outrun and catch smaller ships.
Terra Chrall Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2015.05.16 18:45:39 - [268] - Quote Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Caleb Seremshur wrote: Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Saerin Korvalu wrote: When T3 destroyers were announced, it was said that they'd be a different take on Tech 3 versatility and unpredictability, hence the 'Tactical Destroyer' class. Even when you make the ship a brawling vessel, it still doesn't hold a candle to the abilities of the Confessor and Svipul. In short: Why fly the Jackdaw when the other T3 destroyers outclass it in almost every way? Because the others need another nerf and the jackdaw is a fine ship as it stands. I don't necessarily think the ship is fine but it sure isn't great. Anything with more speed will be able to beat this ship. It's not a revelation to point that out but I don't think cruisers should be able to catch and kill it. If a small ship has to sacrifice so much speed then it should be compensated accordingly and in this case I don't think it has. And how will that ship break this brick tank before it dies to ten launchers? Ten lights on a tank fit Jack is gonna be well less than 300DPS. That is not too scary for a cruiser with some tank fit. Many cruisers will be able to exceed that DPS and tank. Plus be faster too. Ten rockets will be a little better DPS but need close range and most MWD fit cruisesr will be able to stay out of range. And if the cruiser is a brawler with a scram it will be straight race of DPS vs tank. And many cruisers should have a fair shot at winning that race.
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 257	Posted - 2015.05.16 19:29:35 - [269] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Caleb Seremshur wrote: Hakaari Inkuran wrote: Saerin Korvalu wrote: When T3 destroyers were announced, it was said that they'd be a different take on Tech 3 versatility and unpredictability, hence the 'Tactical Destroyer' class. Even when you make the ship a brawling vessel, it still doesn't hold a candle to the abilities of the Confessor and Svipul. In short: Why fly the Jackdaw when the other T3 destroyers outclass it in almost every way? Because the others need another nerf and the jackdaw is a fine ship as it stands. I don't necessarily think the ship is fine but it sure isn't great. Anything with more speed will be able to beat this ship. It's not a revelation to point that out but I don't think cruisers should be able to catch and kill it. If a small ship has to sacrifice so much speed then it should be compensated accordingly and in this case I don't think it has. And how will that ship break this brick tank before it dies to ten launchers? Breaking 24k brick tank? You mean by using like your superior dps and cap pool? T1 cruisers might find themselves challenged by T3D but really no with double the dps available and a much larger cap pool I just don't see it being a problem. Gonna jump on sisi right now and see if I can't Caracal a jackdaw to death Thorax a jackdaw Rupture Omen This is what 64 mil sp in combat skills nets me, the ability to fly just about anything I like and to test for myself. I'll return with the results. But did you try flying the Jackdaw?
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2170	Posted - 2015.05.16 20:32:24 - [270] - Quote Solarus Explorer wrote: ^ What this guy said..... dessies should be faster than cruisers. It makes no sense for a bigger ship to be able to outrun and catch smaller ships. Just as much sense as Destroyers having more DPS than most Cruisers...... You can't have everything.



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