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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1031
   |
Posted - 2015.05.14 11:36:51 -
[211] - Quote
Anything with snakes and links is amazing, even my Draek. |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage
RAZOR Alliance
537
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 13:09:37 -
[212] - Quote
afkalt wrote:
Exactly.
The fit in these quotes are the purview of eft warriors and high sec 'PvPers'.
Meanwhile, in the real world the ship is meh.
The ship isn't amazing yeah. On sisi I saw one kill a confessor but with sisi it's practically impossible to determine who has links or not.
......
Eh. I just can't get hyped any more. Probably cancel my sub at this rate.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1182
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 13:43:21 -
[213] - Quote
Well, it depends on the larger meta plans from CCP. If a few other outliers are battered back into line, it will be just fine.
Likewise if missiles are being reviewed here, it may make more sense. But we lack sufficient information as to the future so can only base on the known data today. |
Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc.
Lasers Are Magic
24
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Posted - 2015.05.14 13:58:58 -
[214] - Quote
As it stands, this will be the only t3 destroyer to not receive a 66% speed boost (assuming the hecate retains its slated bonuses). That alone is troubling to me. However, that fact coupled with the incredibly prenerfed, and I do not use that term lightly, base speed (and to a lesser degree it has prenerfed agility) this ship is really a joke in speed mode.
With a MWD in speed mode this ship does align with incredible ease, no doubt about it, no complaints. However, the agility is largely irrelevant due to this ship being slower than anything it will ever engage _period_dot_com_.
Tooling around with the ship on sisi I think the fitting is more than ample for what I would consider "reasonable" fittings. The dps does tend to be a bit low in general however, which is somewhat annoying as this ship is relegated to brawling, where dps is much more important. Seeing a larger damage bonus on the base hull (5% damage _and_ rate of fire). Double BCU with rage rockets is barely topping 320 dps. Your garden variety arty svipul does slightly less (about 30) dps, and a beam confessor dwarfs this ship's dps with around 430 dps with multifrequency _cold_. To top it off, both of those ships would outrange a rage fitted jackdaw, and would be significantly faster regardless of the prop mod they chose to fit.
Just because the svipul is still the most popular ship in the game, and still does too much dps doesn't mean the jackdaw should be punished for it.
The fitting on the jackdaw is fine. It needs more speed _or_ more damage but not both. Six mid slots is still silly. Is this ship supposed to always fit 2 webs to make up for its low speed? |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage
RAZOR Alliance
537
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 14:29:11 -
[215] - Quote
It could probably get a point range bonus instead or something. That would help it. 12km scram + faction web or 28km t2 longpoint. It could then possibly scram kite some things.
The thing about EVE is an agility bonus just isn't that useful unless you're trying to run away. It helps with oversize prop mods but this ship came predesigned as not being able to really benefit from those.
I'd rather fly my flycatcher tbh at least that thing hauls ass when it has to.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
581
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 14:47:54 -
[216] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Jackdaw
Caldari Tactical Destroyer Bonuses Per Level:
5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile Launcher rate of fire
5% bonus to Shield Hitpoints
5% reduction in heat damage generated by modules
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile damage
95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements
Additional bonuses are available when one of three Tactical Destroyer Modes are active. Modes may be changed no more than once every 10 seconds.
Defense Mode:
33.3% bonus to all shield resistances while Defense Mode is active
33.3% reduction in ship signature radius while Defense Mode is active
Propulsion Mode:
33.3% bonus to max velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
66.6% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active
Sharpshooter Mode:
66.6% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity while Sharpshooter Mode is active
100% bonus to sensor strength, scan resolution and targeting range while Sharpshooter Mode is active
Slot layout: 6 H, 6 M, 2 L, 5 launchers
3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 56 PWG, 270 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 / 550 / 600
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60 / 55 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 72.5 / 43.75 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 700 / 300s / 2.333
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 160 / 6.4 / 1,050,000 / 4.5 / 9.32s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 15 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 70
Cargo capacity: 450
Stats when compared to flycatcher same shield/armour resist profile, 50gj more cap 10 less cpu 350,000kg less mass (-23%) 155m/s slower (-49%) 5km less targeting range 175less scan res (-37%) 50hp more shield (+6%) 10 sigres less (-12.5%) 7grid less (-11%) Not feeling very impressed. This thing is super super slow and in a meta where speed dominates I think this ship risks woefully underperforming. I don't know what kind of role this thing is trying to fill and I don't know what role it should have either. I was really looking forwards to this but now I can't understand why.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/8742/1/Shiptech_1920.jpg
Oh look!
Just pretend that Tech 3 cruisers don't exist and everything will be fine, and nevermind dem three buttan Modes.
Mark my words, the Propulsion mode bonuses on the Confessor and Svipul will be reviewed before long. 
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
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Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1790
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 14:55:32 -
[217] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:It could probably get a point range bonus instead or something. That would help it. 12km scram + faction web or 28km t2 longpoint. It could then possibly scram kite some things.
The thing about EVE is an agility bonus just isn't that useful unless you're trying to run away. It helps with oversize prop mods but this ship came predesigned as not being able to really benefit from those.
I'd rather fly my flycatcher tbh at least that thing hauls ass when it has to.
I think the problem is everybody was and is still hoping for a solo boat and CCP didn't deliver that. The 2 previous T3D set the tone for what these were all going to be and the jackdaw then is out of the mold. Everybody was expecting a confessor/svipul hibrid spewing missiles instead of laser/projectiles. The tank was obvioulsy aimed toward shield and more than likely a resist bonus and not active reps.
It's racially fitting (buffer shield tank, missiles as main weapon) but feels at an odd place within it's ship class. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
248
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 15:20:08 -
[218] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Jackdaw
Caldari Tactical Destroyer Bonuses Per Level:
5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile Launcher rate of fire
5% bonus to Shield Hitpoints
5% reduction in heat damage generated by modules
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile damage
95% reduction in Scan Probe Launcher CPU requirements
Additional bonuses are available when one of three Tactical Destroyer Modes are active. Modes may be changed no more than once every 10 seconds.
Defense Mode:
33.3% bonus to all shield resistances while Defense Mode is active
33.3% reduction in ship signature radius while Defense Mode is active
Propulsion Mode:
33.3% bonus to max velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
66.6% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active
Sharpshooter Mode:
66.6% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity while Sharpshooter Mode is active
100% bonus to sensor strength, scan resolution and targeting range while Sharpshooter Mode is active
Slot layout: 6 H, 6 M, 2 L, 5 launchers
3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 56 PWG, 270 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 / 550 / 600
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60 / 55 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 72.5 / 43.75 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 700 / 300s / 2.333
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 160 / 6.4 / 1,050,000 / 4.5 / 9.32s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 15 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 70
Cargo capacity: 450
Stats when compared to flycatcher same shield/armour resist profile, 50gj more cap 10 less cpu 350,000kg less mass (-23%) 155m/s slower (-49%) 5km less targeting range 175less scan res (-37%) 50hp more shield (+6%) 10 sigres less (-12.5%) 7grid less (-11%) Not feeling very impressed. This thing is super super slow and in a meta where speed dominates I think this ship risks woefully underperforming. I don't know what kind of role this thing is trying to fill and I don't know what role it should have either. I was really looking forwards to this but now I can't understand why. sure if you want to ignore the actual shield hp role bonus this ship has thats always on and boosts all extenders by 50 percent and the fact it fits fewer launchers so comes out beating the flycatcher on powergrid.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1159
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 15:27:09 -
[219] - Quote
and all the extra mids it has ofc..
Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
585
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 15:39:02 -
[220] - Quote
Seeing as this is the default T3D thread now, I propose the following:
Reduce the velocity bonus in Propulsion mode on both the Svipul and the Confessor from,
Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to maximum velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
to
Propulsion Mode:
50% bonus to maximum velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
And then adjust the Inertia one on the Jackdaw to reflect it,
Propulsion Mode:
33.3% bonus to max velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
66.6% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active
to
Propulsion Mode:
33.3% bonus to max velocity while Propulsion Mode is active
50% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active
On balance, Jackdaw will remain slower by some 100 m/s against the Confessor and around 450 m/s slower than the Svipul with an MWD, all the while reducing cancer.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1032
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 15:41:53 -
[221] - Quote
I really don't see the jackdaw being as bad as people make it out to be. Most certainly it is underwhelming compared to the other T3Ds, but a small gang of them have terrifying application to that range and volley.
One decent cookie cutter I ran across had mwd, 2 MSEs, an EM ward, point and web, with a BCS+nano in the lows and LMLs and combat probes in the highs. Two ACRs and a missile speed rig. Three of them easily push your collective volley towards 5k.
Then in Propmode, you burn closer to or further from something you want to point. Then you switch to defensive mode and soak up roughly 15k ehp before you go into propmode again, pull range and switch over to sharpshooter for 55km fury and 80km CN range, while one of your mates takes over tackle and you wait for your shields to come up again.
In a mixed gang, the jackdaw does a variation of the svipuls job. It too can combat probe things, but instead of clinching a target, you can zip around and screen heavier ships while applying dps to primaries half across the grid.
In short: Jackdaw is underwhelming compared to T3Ds, but feels superfluffy and caldari and actually is a decent ship in a small gang. |
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1183
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 16:03:48 -
[222] - Quote
Tbh given the cost, I'd be more inclined to just run a bunch of caracals to achieve the same thing, but without needing to retreat to address shields.
I mean, they're ok and all but just lack a certain....pizzazz* and niche. That's where I really struggle - finding a niche to put them in. There are a couple, but they are so narrow I'm left wondering why.
*Note this doesn't need to be a "power" thing, just some more style. For example I'd have liked to see them test out making them more alpha based, perhaps with negatives to RoF to compensate. You know, something different, |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1159
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 16:53:09 -
[223] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Tbh given the cost, I'd be more inclined to just run a bunch of caracals to achieve the same thing, but without needing to retreat to address shields.
I mean, they're ok and all but just lack a certain....pizzazz* and niche. That's where I really struggle - finding a niche to put them in. There are a couple, but they are so narrow I'm left wondering why.
*Note this doesn't need to be a "power" thing, just some more style. For example I'd have liked to see them test out making them more alpha based, perhaps with negatives to RoF to compensate. You know, something different,
the whole point of T3 is too avoid a specific niche entirely .. instead offers versatility and adaptability.. atm though all T3's are just plain better than the current niche ships (T2 ships)
Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
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elitatwo
Eve Minions
Poopstain Removal Team
669
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 17:14:12 -
[224] - Quote
The last two days I was trying to figure this boat out but for the live of me it wasn't successful. The bullet points have been covered by now and only little comes to mind.
The shield hp bonus feels out of place on that ship and unvoluntarly forces the ship into a pre-fit kind of fitting and flying the ship in a pre-set fit in the mind of the creator.
Yeah, we get it you don't like missiles so why not make the blueprint have the buffer fit preassembled when the ship comes out of the bakery so the more than obvious weaknesses get masked in a shiney package?
The Confessor and that minmatar thing make fun of the Jackdaw or leave whenever they think they don't like to be there anymore, every time.
If you were to engage something like three Tristans in lowsec they will dismantle the Jackdaw so quickly that the unlucky pilot doesn't even know what's happening all the while the Confessor and that minmatar monstrocity would have made jokes about 'only three of them'.
It was already mentioned that one medslot could move in the lows and I would suggest baking the inertia bonus into the hull and increase the base speed of the Jackdaw by 33% in propulsion mode instead.
And while we are talking about missiles, we should talk rockets a bit. Rockets have been a joke since the day I joined and maybe they deserve to be made into a proper small missiles instead for once.
So a renaming would go a long way in public relations in favor of the rockets and when they have a cool name like 'small or light attack missile' and they would definately need an increase of base damage by 25%.
No hold your breath for a minute and let this sink in. On the first look 25% sounds like a ton and I already hear the outcry of OP on comms later today already.
In any case an example should put your minds at ease and 25% of 100 isn't that much all of a sudden anymore.
(And in case of the Jackdaw with one tech2 ballistic control one rocket volley would go from 460hp to 575hp damage rage rocket damage flying 8434 meters into the void hitting or not a shield or armor layer with 50% or less % of that 575hp every 1.8 seconds or 2 server ticks.)
Keep in mind that missiles do not really work in terms of dps and not all dps that your fitting screen shows is the same as the other dps and if people would finally realize and memorize it until the end of time some of our lifes would be much easier.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
163
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 17:28:22 -
[225] - Quote
Fun ship, but compared to the other two that are out... it's a joke. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1159
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 17:58:58 -
[226] - Quote
the HP bonus is out of place on a T3 ship its supposed to offer versatility and adaptability, thus the modes if you want the extra tank , mobility etc.. having hp baked in violates this theme, tracking or even just run with 1 bonus is the logical choice here.
Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
586
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 18:01:53 -
[227] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:the HP bonus is out of place on a T3 ship its supposed to offer versatility and adaptability, thus the modes if you want the extra tank , mobility etc.. having hp baked in violates this theme, tracking or even just run with 1 bonus is the logical choice here.
You mean like the Svipul? 
* * *
The Sig radius reduction in Defensive mode is identical to the Confessor, and could be replaced with Increased shield regeneration rate if it is balanced through high base hull shield recharge time, or Decreased Shield Booster activation cost is also an option.
Gÿæ Not a gimmick
Gÿæ Not OP
Gÿæ Adds variety
Talk to us CCP. (Gò»-¦Gûí-¦n+ëGò»
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
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Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Solarus Explorer
The Church of Awesome
Heiian Conglomerate
5
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Posted - 2015.05.14 18:19:04 -
[228] - Quote
I think the devs slightly underestimate the importance of speed in the current meta. There is a reason the garmur and orthrus are totally OP..... the ability to completely dictate range via speed and manouverability..... alongwith the ability to point and apply dps at that range.
The confessor and svipul will be superior boats to this ship, they have more speed and manouverability as well as significantly higher dps (though they have a lesser tank). Frankly, tank is irrelevant if u cant catch anything and everything else in the game can catch you when it wants to, cause it will be prepared when it does...... and then it will kill you irrespective of your tank. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
587
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 18:38:35 -
[229] - Quote
Therefore, we need less cancer, not more cancer.
Reduce the 66.6% Velocity bonus in Prop mode for the Confessor and Svipul to 50%, and Jackdaw's Inertial modifier bonus from 66.6% to 50% = They become only 110-450 m/s faster than the Jackdaw, instead of 350-800 m/s right now.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Solarus Explorer
The Church of Awesome
Heiian Conglomerate
5
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Posted - 2015.05.14 18:40:53 -
[230] - Quote
Honestly, IMO the cancer reduction should start from bringing over-speeding cruisers back in line, and reigning in the garmur and orthrus. They are already faster than the current t3ds.
Just my 2 cents..... |
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
248
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Posted - 2015.05.14 18:47:52 -
[231] - Quote
Solarus Explorer wrote:Honestly, IMO the cancer reduction should start from bringing over-speeding cruisers back in line, and reigning in the garmur and orthrus. They are already faster than the current t3ds.
Just my 2 cents.....
In the same patch they then kill offgrid boosting forever. Assuming brain in a box is working. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
592
|
Posted - 2015.05.14 20:17:31 -
[232] - Quote
Solarus Explorer wrote:Honestly, IMO the cancer reduction should start from bringing over-speeding cruisers back in line, and reigning in the garmur and orthrus. They are already faster than the current t3ds.
Just my 2 cents.....
On average, they are equal and slightly slower than T3Ds in Propulsion mode, with few notable exceptions like the Nomen, Orthus and most Matari boats.
But I see your point.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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elitatwo
Eve Minions
Poopstain Removal Team
669
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Posted - 2015.05.14 22:59:15 -
[233] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Dual prop (or even triple prop fits) can be incredibly powerful, combining speed & signature tanking.
And yes, over-fitting is another interesting choice. Getting back a chunk of the speed but loosing agility.
A 'choice' that the Jackdaw cannot make anymore by 'design'. Maybe it escapes the drawing board but a regular web will pin down the Jackdaw so hard the buffer tank only buys you a few more seconds to watch your boat go boom.
728m/s with a tech2 1mn afterburner doesn't feel 'propelled' at all and with a mwd the signature of that boat is a slower Naga. So either make it immune to stasis webs or give them a Sansha like small ab speed bonus.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage
RAZOR Alliance
537
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 04:57:01 -
[234] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Dual prop (or even triple prop fits) can be incredibly powerful, combining speed & signature tanking.
And yes, over-fitting is another interesting choice. Getting back a chunk of the speed but loosing agility. A 'choice' that the Jackdaw cannot make anymore by 'design'. Maybe it escapes the drawing board but a regular web will pin down the Jackdaw so hard the buffer tank only buys you a few more seconds to watch your boat go boom. 728m/s with a tech2 1mn afterburner doesn't feel 'propelled' at all and with a mwd the signature of that boat is a slower Naga. So either make it immune to stasis webs or give them a Sansha like small ab speed bonus.
When someone figures out what the jackdaw is supposed to do let me know.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Fourteen Maken
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology
Enemy Spotted.
153
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Posted - 2015.05.15 06:06:44 -
[235] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
When someone figures out what the jackdaw is supposed to do let me know.
It's a stealth buff for heavy missiles, finally there's something they can shoot at besides npc's. |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
338
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 08:40:33 -
[236] - Quote
Ahh this is some funny stuff.
First CCP learn absolutely no lessons from the broken mess that is T3 cruisers, implement a second arbitrarily overpowered line of ships - but make an exception on the OPness for the Caldari one because of their standard "**** Caldari" doctrine.
This is of course assuming the Gallente one is going to follow the trend of the first two and will be a hilariously overpowered pwnmobile that obsoletes T1. If not, well at least they're picking on two races and not just their usual buttmonkey. |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage
RAZOR Alliance
537
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Posted - 2015.05.15 08:45:47 -
[237] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:
When someone figures out what the jackdaw is supposed to do let me know.
It's a stealth buff for heavy missiles, finally there's something they can shoot at besides npc's.
I was being sincere. Fwiw a jackdaw with active reps and a strong blue doesn't do toooooo bad. Even if the blue fires and you get a hp nerf it's still only 5% less than base stats which isnt too shabby when you take in to account the resist bonus.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Heinrich Rotwang
Zentralrat deutscher Fliesentischbesitzer e.V.
65
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Posted - 2015.05.15 08:57:32 -
[238] - Quote
If this ship has got a winning fit, it is well hidden. |
Arla Sarain
446
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Posted - 2015.05.15 09:50:15 -
[239] - Quote
ITs pretty much exclusively either a rocket fit with dual webs for rage rockets, which WILL apply full damage, and then racks of resist amps and an invuln field.
Or a LML fit with TPs, TDs and damps.
The sig bonus is useless. The ship has a 70m sig radius. |
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
66
|
Posted - 2015.05.15 10:42:22 -
[240] - Quote
You can always bet on a caldari thread to have the wittiest comments! =)
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