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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Specia1 K
State War Academy
Caldari State
57
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Posted - 2015.05.10 00:07:07 -
[31] - Quote
Maurice Shepard wrote:Onslaughtor wrote:... honestly this is very disappointing. With only two lows there is no room for the fun and creative fits that made the other two so much fun, not counting the silliness that was the 10mn version(But we fixed those and we still can have fun fits like LSE svipuls with web and scram). I don't need 6 mids. Personally I would leave most the stats and just swap a mid to a low. 3-5-6 thats well balanced and keeps it in a different space than the other ships it has to compete against in its own missile using category.
If I were to make more changes I would have strived for a different bonus for the missiles, like a 7.5% for rockets and a 5% for lights. But that can be fixed on the weapons themselves. The Propulsion bonus also feels very lackluster to the point where I really donGÇÖt see myself using it for much else than insta warping from gate to gate. I completely agree with this. Also all the people above in this thread that are whining about the PG should probably stop comparing this thing to the pre-nerf extremely OP 10MN AB dual ASB I'm-gonna-moonwalk-out-of-here Svipul and think about why this thing has so little pg.
I said this ship was pre-nerfed and it is.
Might have a few specific roles, but Svipul will still dominate the kills. |
Maurice Shepard
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.05.10 00:07:32 -
[32] - Quote
Theronth Valarax wrote:I did some math with the stats we have atm and it seems like its gonna be way better as a brawler.
Still, LML fit it gonna be proper cancerous. All those mids for ewar, yo.
Kite fits possibly with 2 tracking disruptors or something, I don't know. Could be pretty OP. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12940
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Posted - 2015.05.10 00:15:45 -
[33] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:But these things don't belong in small complexes and I think most of us can agree that we shouldn't be balancing ships around facwar alone.
That's pretty much the gist of it. Yes, it is pain train against mostly commonly flown faction warfare ships, but otherwise I don't see a whole lot of use for it, and there are other things that already do that anyway.
Like I said, I'm holding out for the Hecate. That thing will be obscene.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Onslaughtor
Occult National Security
Phoenix Naval Systems
124
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Posted - 2015.05.10 00:35:01 -
[34] - Quote
Ok, now having taken the time to run some basic numbers I am even more upset. You are starting this thing very heavily postnerfed. With this slot layout and the power-grid there are only a very few ways to fit it. Nothing fun or creative to see here only a more powerful flycatcher with mode switching. There is way too little pwg as well, for anything. Taking my other post into account I would swap a mid to a low for a 3 -5- 6 set up and add maybe up to 4 power grid (so that it is in line with the others), and compress the bonuses for the guns so it can have 2 utility highs like everyone else. The reason for adding 4 powergrid is that unlike guns you cant change the pwg used by missiles. There is no better option when fitting them, only fitting less.
Maybe this will make it overpowered with the silly prop bonus when people manage to squeeze on a 10mn ab, but really that bonus should be changed anyway because we can barely fit the ab that it was meant to fly with when you came up with it with the pre nerf T3Ds. The postnerf T3Ds with 10mns from what I have seen aren't very good, this would be no different if this thing was made to match.
But we can be honest with that as well, it the stats do appear to be out of line or the ship is getting way more use than it needs once it is out, then scale it back. You werenGÇÖt heavy handed with the Ishtar why be so heavy handed with this? The Gila and Worm havenGÇÖt been touched yet and they are still silly strong.
* Edit*
I feel I should reiterate my earlier point, these things don't belong in small complexes and I think most of us can agree that we shouldn't be balancing ships around facwar alone. |
Lev Ironwill
World Burning
0
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Posted - 2015.05.10 01:00:22 -
[35] - Quote
afkalt wrote:If you're doing a missile look-at in June too, you need to tell us now. Feedback is worthless without knowing this.
I say this because it was mooted previously.
This is what I would like to know as well, lasers and projectiles were both addressed with their respective T3D's so will missiles be getting a look with the Jackdaw?
I would like to be exited for this new ship, I should be, but I'm hesitant to get my hopes up about a missile ship being more than niche. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12941
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Posted - 2015.05.10 01:09:44 -
[36] - Quote
Lev Ironwill wrote:afkalt wrote:If you're doing a missile look-at in June too, you need to tell us now. Feedback is worthless without knowing this.
I say this because it was mooted previously. This is what I would like to know as well, lasers and projectiles were both addressed with their respective T3D's so will missiles be getting a look with the Jackdaw? I would like to be exited for this new ship, I should be, but I'm hesitant to get my hopes up about a missile ship being more than niche.
No, because that might possibly mean that Caldari would get buffed. Pretty sure that it's in the rules somewhere that they aren't allowed to buff Caldari.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Wild Things
Mining Industry Exile Foundation
Warlords of the Deep
27
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Posted - 2015.05.10 02:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'm concerned about the possible large fleet application of these compared to the other T3D's. I'd really like to see the raw HP bonus reconsidered and possibly changed to a shield boost amount bonus if you're still keen on having it be extremely tanky.
People complaining about it not having enough powergrid... christ.
In this moment, I am euphoric.
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Tiberian Deci
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu
Test Alliance Please Ignore
131
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Posted - 2015.05.10 03:36:36 -
[38] - Quote
Thank you for not kinetic locking the damage bonus. |
Grm Makentor
Oruze Cruise
29
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Posted - 2015.05.10 03:53:43 -
[39] - Quote
On the whole, not that impressed.
Huge sig + no room for 10mn is going to gimp it against anything larger than itself
Low base speed, poor speed bonus means it can't LML kite anything smaller than itself
Jackdaw is already basically consigned to insane rocket brawler that no-one will engage in FW space or en mass alpha strike gang, like an expensive overtanked talwar. I really cant see any other setups where it would be effective at all.
Nothing about this ship makes me want to fly it or bring it to a gang to be honest
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Dato Koppla
Konvict Cartel
The Asylum.
827
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Posted - 2015.05.10 04:48:50 -
[40] - Quote
Because the first iteration of T3Ds were so broken with 10MN it seems people can't see past it anymore. 50% of this thread is "it can't fit 10MN therefore it's useless".
Overall it looks pretty good, 6 mids is definitely powerful and can allow for some nice brawl fits. LML kite will probably be quite deadly especially with lots of defensive options like damps/defensive web/defensive scram etc. |
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elitatwo
Eve Minions
Poopstain Removal Team
663
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Posted - 2015.05.10 04:49:51 -
[41] - Quote
Weeeeh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111eleven
I see what you did there  and who wouldn't love a 94km missile range destroyer that volley tackle of the field so fast that linked interceptors just don't bother.
I love her!
/me wants to inject the book right now!!!
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Longdrinks
Love Squad
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
187
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Posted - 2015.05.10 05:46:46 -
[42] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Weeeeh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111eleven I see what you did there and who wouldn't love a 94km missile range destroyer that volley tackle of the field so fast that linked interceptors just don't bother. I love her! /me wants to inject the book right now!!!
Thats called a talwar and unlike a talwar this ship cant shoot far and tank at the same time. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
357
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Posted - 2015.05.10 06:45:44 -
[43] - Quote
10 effective launchers? If my math is not broken, a 50% damage role bonus applied to 5 launchers means 7.5 launchers ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Traejun DiSanctis
Astro Technologies
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
107
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Posted - 2015.05.10 07:04:01 -
[44] - Quote
Saerin Korvalu wrote:The main problem I'm seeing with the ship is the gimped PWG. It's ridiculously low.
Less PWG than a Corax. -_-
That jumps off the page for me as well. It's so low that I'm thinking you're essentially locked into rockets. Looking at things, it makes sense since you're getting a really nice damage bonus and, apparently, the agility of a frigate. Jackdaw is gonna be a brawler, and probably nothing more.
In it's "sharpshooter" mode, which would seem to benefit Light Missiles the most, the powergrid appears incapable of supporting the full 5, plus any kind of tank and tackle. With only 2 lows, you can't put PG on it without sacrificing BCUs.
I'm hoping the PG gets bumped at least a little, but time will tell. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Fidelas Constans
2389
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Posted - 2015.05.10 07:33:52 -
[45] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:10 effective launchers? If my math is not broken, a 50% damage role bonus applied to 5 launchers means 7.5 launchers ...
caldari tactical destroyer 5% rof per level |
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
144
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Posted - 2015.05.10 10:28:59 -
[46] - Quote
Does this thing do the same thing as the Golem when switching modes? As in, when you enter/exit bastion with a Golem, all missiles currently in flight will do no damage (not even a damage notification, they just go poof) - will this happen when switching to/from Sharpshooter mode in the Jackdaw? |
Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
2065
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Posted - 2015.05.10 11:03:31 -
[47] - Quote
Got to admit that as a predominantly solo lowsec player I am getting more and more frustrated by each ship release. Garmur, Orthrus, T3Ds all OP and breaking a lowsec meta that was reasonably healthy. I understand that you want people to be excited about new ships but isn't the meta health also important?
At first glance this looks like a double web rocket brawler that I'm just not going to be interested in fighting. Just like the Garmur is a ridiculous spec kiter that I am also not interested in fighting. Or the Worm which is just frustrating with those drones. Or the 10mn Svipul.
Maybe I should just jump on the bandwagon and fly FOTM from now on. Or just leave lowsec.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Rosal Milag
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.05.10 11:51:14 -
[48] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:... honestly this is very disappointing. With only two lows there is no room for the fun and creative fits that made the other two so much fun, not counting the silliness that was the 10mn version(But we fixed those and we still can have fun fits like LSE svipuls with web and scram). I don't need 6 mids. Personally I would leave most the stats and just swap a mid to a low. 3-5-6 thats well balanced and keeps it in a different space than the other ships it has to compete against in its own missile using category.
If I were to make more changes I would have strived for a different bonus for the missiles, like a 7.5% for rockets and a 5% for lights. But that can be fixed on the weapons themselves. The Propulsion bonus also feels very lackluster to the point where I really donGÇÖt see myself using it for much else than insta warping from gate to gate.
*Edit*
Thinking about this more I do agree with people that they would reap facwar as fast as a drifter. But these things don't belong in small complexes and I think most of us can agree that we shouldn't be balancing ships around facwar alone.
Asks for more unique fits, yet wants to strip away unique fitting options.... Two highs will not increase choices, it homogenizes the t3 destroyer class. With 1 utility, you have to make much more meaningful decisions. Probe Launcher? Cloak? Neut? Nos? All correct options depending on your circumstances. Same with dropping a mid for a low. All a low does is give fitting space, damage, and maneuvering. A mid opens up dual prop, ewar, tank, sensor boosters, dual point, etc. A mid slot has so many more uses than a low for a shield ship. You say you want unique fits, yet your changes would remove that potential.
Propulsion mode useless? So, orbiting at 500m, full speed mwd isn't something that you'd want? Especially with a rocket brawler? Please. Propulsion mode will make this ship the hardest t3 destroyer to deal with for large hulls. Additionally, with the quick align, you can bail from a fight gone sour in a heartbeat after shaking a point. Basically, in prop mode, the jackdaw wins any fights based on positioning, forcing the opponent to be perfect with cap use and point range. Which also leads into the two utility highs. Dual Neut brawlers would be able to disengage at their leisure if they can't win in prop mode. You don't have to be aligned, signaling your intentions. Just focus the neuts, flip to prop mod when the point drops and gtfo. |
Gustav Mannfred
Summer of Mumuit
109
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Posted - 2015.05.10 13:03:15 -
[49] - Quote
Why is the Jackdaw slower than all cruisers and minmatar Bc's?
I think, increasing the speed to about 220 m/s would be better than 160.
I also propose a 6/5/3 slot layout, that it can fit more damage modules
i'm REALY miss the old stuff.-á
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1023
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Posted - 2015.05.10 14:39:39 -
[50] - Quote
Thanks a lot for not introducing the lml-AB-RR-jackdaw fleet with 2 utility highs and 6 mids :D |
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Lura Zara
Worlds Without Boundaries Special Forces
0
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Posted - 2015.05.10 15:23:16 -
[51] - Quote
How are people getting these dps/fitting ideas? I cant find anything for EFT on it. |
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
2
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Posted - 2015.05.10 16:10:23 -
[52] - Quote
before you start to criticize, post this:
i am addicted for 10MN T3d. CCP, where my drug? |
elitatwo
Eve Minions
Poopstain Removal Team
664
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Posted - 2015.05.10 16:41:32 -
[53] - Quote
Gustav Mannfred wrote:Why is the Jackdaw slower than all cruisers and minmatar Bc's?
I think, increasing the speed to about 220 m/s would be better than 160.
I also propose a 6/5/3 slot layout, that it can fit more damage modules
160 x 1.25 = 200(m/s) with Navigation V. If you put a nano on you should be at 212m/s (guestimated).
Pweese everyone, the values in the thread are the one without any skills applied to them.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc
Gentlemen's.Club
42
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Posted - 2015.05.10 17:50:11 -
[54] - Quote
Why so slow? lol And only with 2 lows... |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
245
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Posted - 2015.05.10 18:10:41 -
[55] - Quote
It gets ten effective launchers and uhh...whos complaining that it cant lml kite frigates? Arent you being a little bit silly right now? |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
245
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Posted - 2015.05.10 18:21:40 -
[56] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:10 effective launchers? If my math is not broken, a 50% damage role bonus applied to 5 launchers means 7.5 launchers ...
Rate of fire bonus |
Bob Shaftoes
TURN LEFT
The Camel Empire
47
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Posted - 2015.05.10 18:35:06 -
[57] - Quote
Yeah this ship is going to be pretty worthless for kiting.
If I am doing the math right it will do 1136 with navigation and acceleration control 5 , outside of speed mode |
Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
523
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Posted - 2015.05.10 19:06:36 -
[58] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:With only two lowslots, you might as well just auto fit it with a Damage Control and a BCU. Two lowslots is not as crippling as two mids, but it's still really restrictive of potential fits.
I'm holding out for the Hecate.
[edit: I mean, it has enough mids to double web, so it slaughters frigates, but lots of things slaughter frigates. dude its already absolutely absurd with 2 lows nothing can fight this 1v1 in faction war you want it to be good with light missiles too?
Yes, actually, we do. Being viable with lights is something the Corax falls flat on its face over compared to the Talwar, and the anemic powergrid certainly puts a wrench in it with that. Bumping up the powergrid and scan res would be very important since at this stage it would have quite a bit of difficulty fitting a full rack of light missiles and a normal tank on its mids without investing heavily in powergrid mods/rigs.
I can safely say that a lot of us do NOT want to see a second Corax in terms of fitting options. We'd rather it be competitive with the Flycatcher, since aside from the extra mid slot and damage selectibility, the flycatcher would still kick the crap out of this in a 1v1 in any engagement. You cannot say the same for the minmatar and amarrian d3s vs their dictors. |
Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
523
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Posted - 2015.05.10 19:17:22 -
[59] - Quote
Saerin Korvalu wrote:The main problem I'm seeing with the ship is the gimped PWG. It's ridiculously low.
Less PWG than a Corax. -_-
I find this infuriating. They shouldn't be locking it to one weapon system; it needs to have usability with light missiles without fitting a crapload of pg mods to even be passable with just a med extender and mwd.
Hell, even the speed is wrong. If they're going to make it a strict brawler, it needs to be able to catch up and grab things; the flycatcher is wonderful for that. The hawk gets away with it since it has oodles of tank (and it's still faster than the jackdaw, I believe). Being slow is ONLY ok if you have good viability with light missiles.
Give defensive mode a rep bonus instead of the bloody useless sig radius bonus; it only works on the Confessor since it's an armor boat. Bump up speed and powergrid significantly; you already have the 10mn problem fixed by the low mass so you don't need to worry as much about oversized fitting.
I will repeat; you NEED to have light missile be the base for what it can fit normally. If you can't fit med extender, mwd, and all the other mids, lows and rigs without any assistance you're doing the build wrong. Please don't give us another Corax. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
245
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Posted - 2015.05.10 19:26:09 -
[60] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Saerin Korvalu wrote:The main problem I'm seeing with the ship is the gimped PWG. It's ridiculously low.
Less PWG than a Corax. -_- I find this infuriating. They shouldn't be locking it to one weapon system; it needs to have usability with light missiles without fitting a crapload of pg mods to even be passable with just a med extender and mwd. Hell, even the speed is wrong. If they're going to make it a strict brawler, it needs to be able to catch up and grab things; the flycatcher is wonderful for that. The hawk gets away with it since it has oodles of tank (and it's still faster than the jackdaw, I believe). Being slow is ONLY ok if you have good viability with light missiles. Give defensive mode a rep bonus instead of the bloody useless sig radius bonus; it only works on the Confessor since it's an armor boat. Bump up speed and powergrid significantly; you already have the 10mn problem fixed by the low mass so you don't need to worry as much about oversized fitting. I will repeat; you NEED to have light missile be the base for what it can fit normally. If you can't fit med extender, mwd, and all the other mids, lows and rigs without any assistance you're doing the build wrong. Please don't give us another Corax.
Dude. Flycatcher has 63 pwg and has to fit 7 launchers. This has 56 and only needs to fit 5. It has a built in extender. Calm down. |
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