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does anyone disagree with halving all training times?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:32:00 - [151] In a few weeks I will be able to fly a command ship and I'm really looking forward to undock it. If I only had had to wait a week or so to get it most of the fun had been lost. For T2 it is good that there are a few lvl 5 skills needed but a few more weapon related skills added to the list would be welcome. T1 ships should need a few weapon/support skills as well (lvl 1 for frigs, lvl 2 for cruisers and lvl 3 for battleships). That way we might see less battleships fitted with small or medium weapons.
Billy Sastard Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:44:00 - [152] I did not read all of the replies to this post, so forgive me if I repeat, but... We do not need training times halved! This would be a bad thing. What would happen to all the people who have been playing the game for years? Would they suddenly have 50% of their SP 'freed' to spend to instantly get new skills (the skills they could have trained in the past, given the reduction in time), I think this highly unlikely. I could see a move like this drving away quite a few players. The training times are really not all that bad, you just have to find stuff to do while you are working on that next skill. EVE is the only online game I know of where I can take 2 weeks off from the game and still advance in the game. That alone is worth the time it takes to train skills. -=^=-
Phalyssa Truixim Caldari Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:38:00 - [153] I find this thread amusing. Of course they aren't going to halve the times. But so many people coming out and saying long training times are good...how would you like to double training time then? That adds to the "challenge". Quite frankly, that is a load of bs. Training time has nothing to do with challenge or skill. I'd rather an outcome of a fight be determined by the actual skill and knowledge of the person rather than whether or not some guy started training since Beta. Really, the only thing halving the time does is makes it faster for people to get to their goals. Once they get to their goals, they will probably get bored and move to a different MMO. CCP will keep training time as long as they can get away with so it will never change. Plus, everyone would complain since they will think new players are getting it easier (which they are now anyways with how much SP they start with).
Spektral Caldari DarkStar 1	Posted - 2007.01.03 17:15:00 - [154] Originally by: kieron There are no plans to reduce the amount of time it takes to train skills. Some consideration is being given to reducing the level requirement of certain skills from level 5 to level 4. Also on The Drawing Board is the possibility if adding a training queue (with some limitations) or dual skill training, but no development has been done to date. Personally, I dont see the realism (sorry for the term) of the toons stopping learning at a arbitrary # of points. Allow for the skills to continue to accrue past the barriers and only stop them when they hit 5. I dont know how many days/weeks I have lost to training snafus over the last 2.5 years. Plus this mitigates newer players losing valuable training time as well.
Cammulos Magnetar Ltd DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.01.03 17:24:00 - [155] Edited by: Cammulos on 03/01/2007 17:25:32 Long train times suck and are totally tedious, but man is it the right way to go in this game. Devs don't change a GD thing. I've been workin on Amarr BS 5 now for god knows how long and I still have a good month to go, and man would I be ****ed if right after I got my Revelation the train times got cut in half, so yeah. Not gonna happen, too many old timers would quit. I do support 'elite' or whatever learning skills tho, heck even an advanced learning skill would be nice. The 60 day training is quite nice tho, I've played for 7 months now and have found my own niche with a good variety of modules/guns/missles/ships to fool around with, so its plenty time to enjoy the game and not worry about the other crap.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.03 17:53:00 - [156] Training times as they are now: Lenient. We train a skill to highly usable level in less than a month for any and all skills. Even Titan level 4 is trained to level 4 in less than a month. Level 5 is square root of 32 times longer time and meant for those who not only want to be good, but cutting edge. If you want to discuss accessibility, do it properly and discuss level requirements, as mr Yellow-bar pointed out above there are plans to make certain skills more easily accessible by reducing requirements to level 4 skills rather than level 5 skills. Here's a few numbers, for the unenlightened: Skill point gain rate per year is roughly 15 million for a non-specialized character. While it is difficult to numerically assign illustrative values to a skill point's worth, one can say that it declines by (sqrt(32))^(skill's level). This means that a character can be viewed as being one level higher if he is 5.66 times older. Translated, EVE still has no "level 5" character. Regardless of my skill point amount (which is somewhere in the upper 40's) I am infinitely worse at capital ships than, for example, Farjung. Also, when I am flying an Armageddon, I have the skills associated with a 6 month dedicated character - I'm not even using 30 million of my skill points, not even as prerequisites! It is, at the end of the day, a strict matter of how you spend your time, and thus your skill points. It's not like halving training times is going to solve anything. Fundamentally, new players might need to be even more fortified than they are now, even after the character creation boost! Skill points in EVE is only a measurement of worth for the ignorant, and decisive for the stupid. Once past a certain threshold, which is entirely dependant on your motive and direction, all skill points will grant you is diversity. No. We do certainly not need to cut training times down by half. We do not need more people ignorant of what they are doing flying ships far too expensive for them. We do not need cheaper alts floating around as secondary and tertiary characters on accounts. We don't need to dumb this game down to get masses of people into it - EVE is sick.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.03 18:19:00 - [157] I say no to doing anything at all with skill time or SP. It's already bad enough that people can spam 800kSP suicide alts now.
Constantine Arcanum Gallente IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2007.01.03 18:23:00 - [158] Originally by: Tisanta damn 70 odd opposing posts :P well meh im happy waiting another 5-10 years for all the skills in the game :D 19, actually. I helped - Cortes What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1 I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:24:00 - [159] Sure. I'll go for halving the training times. One condition though: CCP has to refund me half of my subscription fees over my 5 accounts for the roughly 3 years I have been playing each. I think that comes out to around $1350 USD, roughly. Hell, I'll give them a price break like they do for us signing up for more than one month at a time and call it an even $1200. Only one problem though: Hell would freeze over and Satan would have frostie treats for all the good little boys and girls before CCP gave ANY of its customers ANY kind of a cash refund for ANY reason. So, I guess that kinda puts a damper on the whole idea, huh? Seriously though, you have a problem with training times the way they are? Do what the rest of us do: PLAN your character build according to your own NEEDS and WANTS. If you like quick gratification, I guess your limited to the low rank skills. Nothing wrong with that, you can make some MORE than decent builds sticking with low ranking skills, I know, I've done it. You want to fly with the big boys? Then you have to pony up the subscription fees and put in your time just like the rest of us had to Noobin. Sum up: That's a BIG "no way Noob" on the messing with the training times. You want to train faster? Put in the effort to run missions and earn high end implants. Next!!! * *
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:32:00 - [160] Well since you asked for 'opposers' to respond, I'll respond. I disagree with halving training times. Changing prereqs from 5 to 4, on the other hand, sounds like a smart move if done with care. Even though I was already at advanced 4's when CCP changed the advanced prereqs, I was pleased that they did that. Originally by: oveur EVE is primarily a PVP game from the following dev post

Gothikia Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:52:00 - [161] training is fine the way it is atm, does not need stuff done to it.. _________________________ ISD pwned my last sig.. just imagine a really hawt guy with cool eye makeup on and a pic of a deimos with my name on it... gothie > mods tbh, muahaha one love, gothie &#
Aneis Evisceration. Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.03 21:54:00 - [162] I completely disagree with this. ___
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:39:00 - [163] I do disagree with halving training times, because it would be for everyone. However, every day the gap between old players and newbies born this day becomes bigger, and bigger, and bigger... Advanced training skills are no solution : they are both used by newbies and vets. Implants are WORSE : they require cash that newbies don't have, and just make vets cruise ahead even faster. For me there is only two solutions possible : 1 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition when under a SP limit 2 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition of only a certain set of skills (I prefer this one) "Acquisition" is NOT training. I think that you need something that requires the player to be active, and should not work for alts never undocking, breed only to be sold. To avoid the "vets have much more money" problem, it should not be something that can be traded. In a hurry I can think of two ways: - Missions including things of the kind of "1.000 SP in electronics" as bonus time rewards. - Loot items wich cannot be moved at all out of wrecks, only right click "destroy" or "use" and also give a small boost in SP in a predefined skill. Do not allow the player to chose were the SP go and only have a limited set of basic skills wich can be improved this way. Considering the discussion in this thread and the little time I took to think about it, it's a solution wich reduces the "I'll just never be able to compete" feeling of beginners, doesn't make vets think "that's not fair!" as much (because it requires work from the newbies and is not a complete gift to them), and is not easily exploitable by "what is undocking?" future "WTS" alts. Have a nice day.
Reiisha Satal's Legion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:47:00 - [164] Originally by: Tisanta ?? Only if you can promise me 45 million extra SP to cover the almost 4 years i spent on training what i have now. EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
LuthienTinuviel Starlancers	Posted - 2007.01.04 01:48:00 - [165] well hmm lemme see I still have 3 to 4 months to train for carriers do i want it halved? god no what would be the point..... Eve isn't easy and should not be it is also for the long term if you want the big toys also has anyone ever said to you specialise? I know characters younger than my main that are more skillfull in certain fields than I will probably ever train him. Old sig.... will update soon tm
RedLion Caldari evenova	Posted - 2007.01.04 01:50:00 - [166] Activity rewards, please! If it's just a little, please!
DR HK Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.04 02:01:00 - [167] Edited by: DR HK on 04/01/2007 02:01:55 TO THE OP WITH THE GREATEST OF RESPECT NO MEATBAG!!
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.01.04 02:11:00 - [168] It's fine. Also I'd rather not have 1/2 of my skilltraining time sinse feb 2004' be a waste. I see absolutly no reason for this change to happen. Eve does not need to be made "more friendly" in the skill manner, it just needs more content for the players starting out. And CCP is adressing this. There are thousands of reasons why this should not and will never happen.
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.04 03:36:00 - [169] Originally by: Kaaln Learning skills help a great deal, but I think if I was forced to train them and nothing else during my first month I would have gone insane. I barely managed it as it is. Many people would get bored and quit too, I suspect. I suppose the new starting skill points help with this though.. yeah, learning skills are a horribly boring part of the game. over a month training them, no new skills. sooo boring!
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2007.01.04 04:02:00 - [170] Actually, I think we may be looking in the wrong direction. If you double the rate that players train skills, then it simply means that older players will be TWICE as far ahead, compared to how they are now. Take the number quoted a few posts back of 15mil points per year. Player A: Starts January 2007. Player B: Starts January 2009. Under the current rate, that will give a 30mil SP advantage when player B starts. Under a double rate, it means player A will have a 60mil point advantage. So, if the goal is to give more equality, and less of a point advantage to older players. Then you would actually want to SLOW skill training down. And while it may reduce the gap, it will have its own consequences as well... such as people leaving the game when Cruiser V becomes a 2 month skill as opposed to the 1 month skill it is now. This means major tweaking to skills requirements for a lot of stuff as well.

Zirze	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:33:00 - [171] Originally by: Forum Joe However, every day the gap between old players and newbies born this day becomes bigger, and bigger, and bigger... For me there is only two solutions possible : 1 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition when under a SP limit 2 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition of only a certain set of skills (I prefer this one) Very nice suggestion especially (1) this is better as my suggestions in some posts earlier. point 1 is very good to make the difference smaller between old and new players ... for a PvP Game it is very important that all player have the same "Level" ... and every new patch bring more skills so old player have max old-fighting-skills and can skill the new-fighting-skills to lvl5, but newer player have not max old-fighting-skills and can only max his old-fighting-skills or new-fighting-skills ... never ending story. I wait for a changing to make the gap smaller between old and new players!!
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:37:00 - [172] fleets of 100 dreads would sure break the game if they were too common ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:50:00 - [173] Edited by: Sylthi on 05/01/2007 07:53:00 Originally by: Zirze Originally by: Forum Joe However, every day the gap between old players and newbies born this day becomes bigger, and bigger, and bigger... For me there is only two solutions possible : 1 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition when under a SP limit 2 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition of only a certain set of skills (I prefer this one) Very nice suggestion especially (1) this is better as my suggestions in some posts earlier. point 1 is very good to make the difference smaller between old and new players ... for a PvP Game it is very important that all player have the same "Level" ... and every new patch bring more skills so old player have max old-fighting-skills and can skill the new-fighting-skills to lvl5, but newer player have not max old-fighting-skills and can only max his old-fighting-skills or new-fighting-skills ... never ending story. I wait for a changing to make the gap smaller between old and new players!! I couldn't disagree more. Why should it be that you should, in effect, be "rewarded" for not having played the game for as long as others? Why should new players get a leg up that the old players didn't have? WHY is it important to have everyone at the same "level"? If everyone was at or close to the same "level" then PvP in Eve would become as POINTLESS and BORING as in other MMOs. Also, all #1 would do would be to encourage more players to develop "disposable" characters on thier accounts to use in situations that they didn't want to risk their "mains" in. It really wouldn't "help" in any way except to cater to the "instant gratification crowd", which in my opinion, do not belong in Eve in the first place. #2 is equally as pointless. It would unbalance the game TERRIBLY (more than it already is) a give certain professions even MORE of an advantage over others than they already have now. (I.E. Oveur HIMSELF has stated on more than one occassion that "Eve is primarily a PvP game." This is a statement which I HATE, and deeply want them to change. Eve IS and SHOULD BE much more than that, and they should STOP giving so much love to the PvPers and start thinking about the rest of the player base a little more. Oh, and yes, I AM a PvPer. But, I digress.) Which group of skills would you boost? Combat or starship command skills I assume? So you could get into that ship or mount those weapons you want SOONER? Because, lets face it, that is what the core thought and purpose behind BOTH of these ideas is. YOU want something, (whatever that "something" might be) and YOU want it SOONER than the game is going to give it to you. Sum up: FACE FACTS the way us old timers had to. If you want a high ranking skill at level 5, you're going to have to pony up the subscription fees and WAIT for it; just like all the REST of us had to, Noobin. * *
Draqun Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:54:00 - [174] Originally by: Stakhanov RP wise especially , tell me why a clueless navy cadet who entered space a week ago should fly such massive ships ? Their Father was a senator and CIA cheif? --------------------------------------- First rule of playing EVE online If your too paranoid to play Eve your not paranoid enough to play Eve
Draqun Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:58:00 - [175] Well lets be honest, I am for halfing the time it takes to get to level 5 in a skill if they raise the cap to level 10. . . . and it takes longer to get to 10 than it did originaly to level 5 --------------------------------------- First rule of playing EVE online If your too paranoid to play Eve your not paranoid enough to play Eve
Zirze	Posted - 2007.01.05 08:55:00 - [176] Originally by: Sylthi I couldn't disagree more. Why should it be that you should, in effect, be "rewarded" for not having played the game for as long as others? You have more ISK and Items as a new Player, you have more Standing for Agents, you have more played and viewed as new player ... why you think you have only paid for SP??? New Player have NO time machine to go back to 2003 and start the game ... i never heard about EVE before i started 2006 ... Originally by: Sylthi Why should new players get a leg up that the old players didn't have? Because you have a 3 Years advance in SP and a new player never catch up you?? Because now is now and then is then? Because BPO II Pool are empty and new player have nothing? Because everything is changing? Originally by: Sylthi WHY is it important to have everyone at the same "level"? All say EVE is without pro gamer ... but for me is old player (2003) = pro gamer ... new player (2006) = casual player. Originally by: Sylthi If everyone was at or close to the same "level" then PvP in Eve would become as POINTLESS and BORING as in other MMOs. Why?? ... If everyone has the same "level" in PvP the better player win¦s and not the player who pay longer for his SP in EvE. Why you think if you pay longer for EVE then you are a better player and all new player = "cannon fodder". ... then CCP can make a button in "my account" pay 500$ and i become a GOMODE-Skill/button because i have paid more $ as you Why is it BORING if everyone have the same SP ... the "fitting" is not the same and not all take the same skills for his SP.
SwitchBl4d3 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.05 09:12:00 - [177] its only a week more than bs 5 Originally by: Stavros BUNGLE IN JUNGLE? J tHX OMG YEAH CHICKEN WINGS K? LOLLER SKATESWIHT LUBE K? MIUOINKEYT!!!
Ultim8Evil Lunar Dawn Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.05 09:17:00 - [178] Originally by: Tisanta oh ok.. well i like playing for the challenge too but it gets a bit boring waiting on those lvl 5 skills that take 60 days.. sorta cancel ur eve account for 2 months and play WoW for 2 months.. not that i would do that but it is SOOOOOO tedious... So basically, what you're saying there is that you only pay your subscription to EVE to train skills and when you're not training skills, you've got nothing else better to do? Lol, how sad. WoW is that way --------> --------------------------------------------------------------------
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.05 10:01:00 - [179] Originally by: Zirze ... then CCP can make a button in "my account" pay 500$ and i become a GOMODE-Skill/button because i have paid more $ as you It already exists. Sell GTCs for ISK, buy a character with those ISK. The only good thing is that, at least, the money goes into CCP wallet, instead of an ebayer
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.05 14:26:00 - [180] I think leaving it as is would be just fine. In fact, reducing requirements for some skills to only level 4 of the primary skill might be a bit much. If you don't put the time in to get level V in one skill...why should you be able to advance to the next? As far as people asking why older players should be the only ones getting the rewards, they're not. They've simply spent more time working for what they have. I've not seen any *good* reasons why player x with 6 months should be as capable as player Y with 4 years. This mimics reality, as well. In the military, you're not going to jump to master sergeant in a month just because Billy Bob, who's been in 18 years, is a master sergeant and you don't think it's fair that he has it and you don't. In Eve, you're not going to jump into a carrier just because billy bob has one of those and you don't think it's fair that you have to wait. Billy Bob put in the time and effort and research to get the skills and isk required. So what if you joined the game a year later.



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