EVE Search - does anyone disagree with halving all training times?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

does anyone disagree with halving all training times?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Tisanta Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:45:00 - [1] ?? --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Drakonei	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:46:00 - [2] Everybody who's already invested time in training them?
Tisanta Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:47:00 - [3] lol so you want to moan about having ur 120 day capital 5 reduced to 60 because u already did it? thats sour.. --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Sinlare Gallente Sinlare Auditorium	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:49:00 - [4] Originally by: Tisanta lol so you want to moan about having ur 120 day capital 5 reduced to 60 because u already did it? thats sour.. That's really constructive, sounds to me like you're the one moaning though.
Tisanta Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:51:00 - [5] its not really a moan its more of a poll but im adding opposition to peoples opinions.. =D besides i mean who wouldn't want capital 5 reduced? --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Nerf Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:53:00 - [6] I sure as ******* hell would. I play this game for a challenge, not instant gratification. ------------ HOW TO WIN EVE
Tisanta Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:55:00 - [7] oh ok.. well i like playing for the challenge too but it gets a bit boring waiting on those lvl 5 skills that take 60 days.. sorta cancel ur eve account for 2 months and play WoW for 2 months.. not that i would do that but it is SOOOOOO tedious... --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Varis Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:57:00 - [8] ha. I like about eve that you set training, then forget about it and do fun stuff - until that little mail pops up saying "training complete". Half training time - no thanks.
Wardani Minmatar The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:00:00 - [9] Nah, with longer training times people are forced to specialize. Good thing. - Obsidian Enforcer - The Black Rabbits
MyDoctor	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:01:00 - [10] Edited by: MyDoctor on 01/01/2007 11:03:10 I think there should be some kind of advanced-advanced learnings if you have the normal and the advanced skilled to lvl 5, you've the possibility to get 5 points more. That would be a good thing and even fair to the older ones

Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:02:00 - [11] Near everyone would disagree. --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:03:00 - [12] ok have the devs indicated a possible halving of training times i have yet to see any offical comment. Their latest line with kali was in fact reducing some level 5 skills to 4 to allow players access to mid tier stuff a bit quicker
Samirol Turbulent	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:03:00 - [13] I disagree because the training time is part of eve's nubbin filter. If you dont want to wait 60 days to get capital 5 or whatever, then dont spec in it. Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it? Join channel 'Turby' ingame.
tiewan	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:03:00 - [14] Even though I already posted a thread about training times.. I think cutting them in half is a bit much. I'd just like to see something else in the game I can work towards to increase attributes.. even if it is a temporary thing such as a booster. I don't really want to see more learning skills or implants..
Amaron Ghant Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Tisanta oh ok.. well i like playing for the challenge too but it gets a bit boring waiting on those lvl 5 skills that take 60 days.. sorta cancel ur eve account for 2 months and play WoW for 2 months.. not that i would do that but it is SOOOOOO tedious... Sooooo you sit in station for sixty days whilst your skill trains to level 5, doing nothing but twiddling your thumbs and watching the skill bar progressions with baited breath? How the hell can it be "a bit boring" or even "tedious"? Set training and forget about it, then get out there and kill something. Asteroid, player, rat, yourself. I don¦t care. training is something that happens in the background. Set it, forget it, and get playing the damn game. Oh and No to the question posed by the OP. Why? Because long training times for certain skills keeps the majority of the emo whiny WOW brats out of EVE. Most of them, though unfortunately not all it seems. I would sup with the devil and forget to use a long spoon if it led to me spitting on the grave of nationalism.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:05:00 - [16] Skill training times are already being reduced gradually by releasing more implants and now boosters. That is enough of a reduction.
Cupertino Castellum	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:05:00 - [17] Quote: oh ok.. well i like playing for the challenge too but it gets a bit boring waiting on those lvl 5 skills that take 60 days.. sorta cancel ur eve account for 2 months and play WoW for 2 months. You know you can actually still play even if you didn't learn a new skill today.
Katrina Coreli Soar Angelic	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:06:00 - [18] Im guessing you have a big skill to train and want it over quicker? Sorry m8 but /not signed
Hard Kandy	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:08:00 - [19] Edited by: Hard Kandy on 01/01/2007 11:10:06 As a newbie, I like the long training times. The fact is, I can't suddenly insta-win after a month or two of playing. No amount of crazy game time will get me to my goals any faster. I want to use a mining barge? Well then I can not train the missile skills I need to improve missioning, I have to wait a and prioritise. I feel this should be the same only on a larger scale (like 60 days for a big level 5 skill) for long running players, make you really wait for the best goodies, otherwise you'll have everything now and quit soon when theres nothing new to get. So not signed either, sorry.
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:11:00 - [20] Yes, everybody that's already spent years trianing the skills they have? Though I agree, shorten training across the board. Kick anything above a cruiser out of nuub corps. No lvl 3 or 4 agents for nuub corps. No freighters for NPC corps. No lvl 4 agents for NPC corps.

Duck Andcover Don't be Alarmed	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:17:00 - [21] Edited by: Duck Andcover on 01/01/2007 11:18:41 Mmm, yes and no to shorter training times. No, because on the whole I find it to be an awful idea. One of the wonderful things about Eve is that you don't just get to have all the skills maxed. Making the elusive "perfect" skillset for a given ship(class) or setup easily attainable is a step towards a game where you simply have to have a bunch of level 5 skills to even be considered worth having in a corp. "Oh, you don't have max gunnery skills? Come back when you do, it only takes like 3 days anyway". As others have said, go do stuff while skill training happens in the background. - And while were at it, raising the skill book prices to match current inflation wouldn't be a bad thing either. Yes, because with even less (forced) time for newer players to familiarize themselves with the relationship between their skills and the performance of their ships, there will be ravens fitted with cruiser sized lasers everywhere in no time. And _that_ I want to see. Lasers are cool, yanno?
Kaaln Gallente Soar Angelic	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:23:00 - [22] I like the skill times as they are, sure they may take a long time but I think that's important for character advancement. Then again, I havn't had to train anything skill for longer than 20 days.
Calidor Droks Caldari Central Elite Mining Operations Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:25:00 - [23] There's a big problem with macro miners as it is, halving training times would just have them all in exhumers instead of barges. I'm quite happy with the training times as they are, besides you can greatly reduce the times already if you spend your first month or so doing the learning skills. ubi concordia ibi victoria
Kaaln Gallente Soar Angelic	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:29:00 - [24] Edited by: Kaaln on 01/01/2007 11:29:34 Originally by: Calidor Droks There's a big problem with macro miners as it is, halving training times would just have them all in exhumers instead of barges. I'm quite happy with the training times as they are, besides you can greatly reduce the times already if you spend your first month or so doing the learning skills. Learning skills help a great deal, but I think if I was forced to train them and nothing else during my first month I would have gone insane. I barely managed it as it is. Many people would get bored and quit too, I suspect. I suppose the new starting skill points help with this though. Good point about the macro miners.
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:30:00 - [25] this thread is kinda pointless really fix concord agents first thx
Rhedea Final Crusade Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:35:00 - [26] Originally by: Nox Solaris Kick anything above a cruiser out of nuub corps. No lvl 3 or 4 agents for nuub corps. No freighters for NPC corps. No lvl 4 agents for NPC corps. What happens when a corp dies? Where do you go? I think a fixed tax rate of 20% would be better, pay to be in a n00b corp. Hunter~Trader~Thug
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Rhedea Originally by: Nox Solaris Kick anything above a cruiser out of nuub corps. No lvl 3 or 4 agents for nuub corps. No freighters for NPC corps. No lvl 4 agents for NPC corps. What happens when a corp dies? Where do you go? I think a fixed tax rate of 20% would be better, pay to be in a n00b corp. Macro slaves get around tax rates by handing ore over to a one-person corp to do their refining and selling. They move the minerals to an NPC corp freighter to move them around completely untouchable. If your corp disolves, find another corp, simple enough. Yes, that can sometimes take time, but it's an inconvenience I am more than willing to shoulder to kick macro slaves in the cajones.
RedLion Caldari evenova	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:41:00 - [28] I think there should be rewards for active players... Limited training boost or whatever.
Tachy	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:43:00 - [29] It would fit pretty well with the new char generation. Nearly perfect specialists right out of the clone vats aren't that good, but the new char generation procedure is pretty nice! --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Shayleigh Snowflower DarkStar 1	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:45:00 - [30] don't think halfing the training time would be so good, but, to do a : perception = perception +5 ... and so on, on the entire database holding all our chars should , pretty much, solve some of the problems you are thinking about. The new chars would never catch up the old once, but, they will grow faster in the beginning..

Tisanta Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:50:00 - [31] Originally by: Katrina Coreli Im guessing you have a big skill to train and want it over quicker? Sorry m8 but /not signed that means you agree that they should be halved by doing double negative making posetive? either way nope im quite happy floating around in my pilgrim i just felt like stiring up sumthing for those bored people to discuss while its downtime.. like me:D im providing you with a nice sirvice! be happy people of eve! --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Tisanta Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:52:00 - [32] Originally by: RedLion I think there should be rewards for active players... Limited training boost or whatever. /signed such as 25% decrease in training times whilst you are online... but an auto afk logging out system to stop abuse. --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Hirokishi Gallente Delta-Fr	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:57:00 - [33] Edited by: Hirokishi on 01/01/2007 11:58:28 The only concern I have about training time is when I think about the future of EVE (time is almost perfect as it is now) when tech 3, 4,... will come, what'll be the requirements to use them ? what about the training time you'll have to do in order to fit those requirements ? then maybe new adv - adv learning books would be a good idea... and then another question comes: Will the gap between new and old player grow exponentially ?
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.01.01 12:00:00 - [34] No ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
DOGNOSH Minmatar Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.01 12:07:00 - [35] /signed if all current characters get their skills doubled too but otherwise a very silly idea /not signed -------------------------
jorrel1	Posted - 2007.01.01 12:14:00 - [36] i gthink they should allow us to train all 3 carecters on our carecter sheet
Tachy	Posted - 2007.01.01 12:25:00 - [37] ccp removed the training by doing feature a long time ago. Not many pilots ever came to know why some of their skills did rise without them training, or why the training was finished early. Others used it to make their chars train skills much faster than others, even with macros. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Morkus Rex Amarr Vure	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:53:00 - [38] Edited by: Morkus Rex on 01/01/2007 16:55:12 Originally by: DOGNOSH /signed if all current characters get their skills doubled too but otherwise a very silly idea /not signed Agree 100 with DOGNOSH ___________________________________ Remember to set long skill training EVERY time you lagout!
Mayoz Miner	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:13:00 - [39] Halfing the training times is a bad idea you would have people with ships/items they hardly know anything about. I have been playing about 2 months and theres still things that im learning about my frigate and recently accuired cruiser nvm my being able to be in some of the higher lvl ships.
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:14:00 - [40] Originally by: Tisanta Originally by: RedLion I think there should be rewards for active players... Limited training boost or whatever. /signed such as 25% decrease in training times whilst you are online... but an auto afk logging out system to stop abuse. OH GOD NO. --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.

Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:41:00 - [41] If they did that, I'd probably quit in despair. I mean seriously, if someone told me that the 14 months or so training time I've been playing is only worth 7 months now, I'd probably cry. The game is meant to be about long term goals and achievments, not Quake style logging on to nab a quick "frag" with your insta-pwn character. The game is the way it is, and shouldn't change in any drastic way. Anyhow, its that kind of change that heralds the death of any major MMO, like the death throws of SWG or Planetside. The day EVE stoops to something like that, you know its on its way out. -----------------------------------------------
Hakera Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:52:00 - [42] Edited by: Hakera on 01/01/2007 17:52:49 bad idea. Not only is it a major nerf for exisiting players, it throws a finely tuned system out of whack, devalues the point of attribute enhancers and prcatically removes totally any hurdle bar the skill cost itself. The system as it stands is fine and ranks work perfectly well to ensure low sp are not a barrier to play.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:02:00 - [43] "??" profit! ... oh, wait-
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:06:00 - [44] I would disagree. I only have 15mill sp.
Mrmuttley House of Tempers Kurai Komichi	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:14:00 - [45] If yiu halve training times then everyone who has already trained at current training times should get to double their SP in whatever skills they want I will have all weapons and weapon specs to V and every non capital ship to V as well that will prevent me from getting too screwed when a flavour of the month turns up. Anything left over can go in to Nav enginnering and electronics skills I reckon if you doubled Dr Caymus' SP he would be left training Gunnery and spaceship command. Seriously though how about no it a terrible idea. Im all for extra implants and so on but just halving training times would be lame as ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Time for a new Sig. Any Ideas?
Tripoli XenTech	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:32:00 - [46] Bad idea. Leave them how they are. --- 319 of 341 skills trained.
Ash Vincetti Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:39:00 - [47] omg. you already get a 800K skillpoint advantage at character generation. What more do you want? -----
Dr Slice MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:09:00 - [48] Originally by: Ash Vincetti omg. you already get a 800K skillpoint advantage at character generation. What more do you want? QFT
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:10:00 - [49] Originally by: Sinlare Originally by: Tisanta lol so you want to moan about having ur 120 day capital 5 reduced to 60 because u already did it? thats sour.. That's really constructive, sounds to me like you're the one moaning though. Ditto ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:14:00 - [50] Let me see, instant gratification kid with bloated modded signature and the corporate initials D.I.C.K, I'm fairly sure I'll oppose anything you have to say about game mechanics, do surprise me though. No and double hell no. Ourselves Alone

Roy Batty68	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:31:00 - [51] There's always going to be the "I did my time, you should have to do yours" crowd. There was quite a bit of ***ing about the recent 800k SP change. Should training times be reduced? Yes and no. I think there should be other ways of reducing training times that you can work for ingame. This keeps it fair across the board for everyone to pick up at the same point, rather than simply halving everything across the board. That would make it much like the time they added the learning skills. The reason I think this is simple; EVE is becoming too much of a game of alts. And long training times is at the heart of it. The more content they add, the worse it gets. Originally by:** Big Al Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:33:00 - [52] I would not halve them but I would indeed reduce total time by say 33% and take them off the exponential curve into something a bit more phased. As more and more activities are being piled into EVE it just maked sense. And why should this be retroactive to existing players? You allready have millions of skillpoints ahead of new players and would also benefit from the training time decrease. Seems the more skillpoints you have the sillier you become sometimes... This way newer players could specialize quicker and it would also help them keep up with EVE inflation as they could run missions, mine, rat, whatever, sooner. As the game is now older players have a colossal advantage over new players and IMO that should be reduced, allthough I agree that time invested should be rewarded. 33% decrease in training time and a more phased training instead of the exponential curve between levels is what I propose. Disclaimer: This is just an opinion, no need to flame me to a crisp for it.
Elliot Reid Digital Fury Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:45:00 - [53] Originally by: Tisanta oh ok.. well i like playing for the challenge too but it gets a bit boring waiting on those lvl 5 skills that take 60 days.. sorta cancel ur eve account for 2 months and play WoW for 2 months.. not that i would do that but it is SOOOOOO tedious... You do realise you can do stuff whilst training skills? Make isk or PvP to name but 2. _______________________________
Emo Jelli	Posted - 2007.01.01 20:00:00 - [54] Absolutely not.
Arondos Minmatar Old Timers Guild	Posted - 2007.01.01 20:01:00 - [55] While I hate seeing 25 days to train BC V. The training times make people specialize. If you could cruise through them then everyone would be able to do everything. Bad idea IMO. Life isn't fair and neither is Eve. Get over it.
Serpensis Gallente UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.01 20:34:00 - [56] Just double my other SPs as well, and you`re on. -- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty."
Vanlade Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:19:00 - [57] I am Vanlade, and I disagree. dot . - Vanlade
DunNa	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Elliot Reid You do realise you can do stuff whilst training skills? Make isk or PvP to name but 2. There is a certain point where its not worth it... Being stuck in crappy ships with crappy fittings because you don't have 2000mil sp invested in gunnery or no where near enough in fitting skills and well it really cuts into making isk/pvp. I just like the idea of being active increasing training time. Every roid poped -1min from current train time, every 5 wrecks -1min train time. Something like that where it wouln't become part of the economy simulator while still benefitting active people.
Petrothian Tong	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:39:00 - [59] I woudlnt mind....however, some might noticed, I dont like solutions that **es off people... so think of a way that it doesnt ** off vets/people with tons invested already then we will talk...
chrisreeves Gallente Asgard Protectorate	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:40:00 - [60] Originally by: Tisanta ?? Yes, I disagree. Go save some isk up, go to the want to sell forums and buy a character that has the skill that you want trained up.

Carter Burke	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:55:00 - [61] You bet your ass I'd mind. I left Earth and Beyond and WoW because they were both worthless as far as challenge. I'd also mind because training times are a serious obstacle that keeps whiney punks out of my way. Even if they did cut the times, the next whiner would come along and think those times were too long. Get over it and either put the time in, or go back to WoW. CB
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:59:00 - [62] me _
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:00:00 - [63] I don't mind having the skill times INCREASED, it would increase the amount of specialised players and decrease those that do everything. Of course... that's bad for minnies. "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:24:00 - [64] /signed. Halving training times is the best idea ever for eVe. It is good for newbs and empire based pilots to have a chance to level up and compete with all vets and allow them to spread in low secs and null secs. The idea holds well with warp to zero. Everyone has the same feature and can compete equally. By the way, WTZ is halfway implemented. Please allow WTZ for autopilot. It makes no sense to have WTZ for manual pilot and WT15 for autopilot. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:44:00 - [65] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /signed. Halving training times is the best idea ever for eVe. It is good for newbs and empire based pilots to have a chance to level up and compete with all vets and allow them to spread in low secs and null secs. The idea holds well with warp to zero. Everyone has the same feature and can compete equally. By the way, WTZ is halfway implemented. Please allow WTZ for autopilot. It makes no sense to have WTZ for manual pilot and WT15 for autopilot. Not signed. And being a vet (+3 years in game) I'd not be pleased if those years suddenly becomes worth less as it's faster to train everything. Sure, half the training time but then I want that on all my old skillpoints too.....
Mitten Caldari Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:51:00 - [66] So all those people who have played nearly 4 years now, would they be willing to have 2 of their years of training be for naught?
Zeke Novak	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:53:00 - [67] How about.... No?
Nikla Uthaan Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:24:00 - [68] Sure, halve training times. So long as I can have my current skillbase doubled, distributed how I'd like. ----------------- One word,, emo,,, The Mishing is an ethnic group in the districts of North Lakhimpur, Sonitput, Dhemaji, Dibrugarh, Sibsagar, Jorhat, Golaghat, Tinsukia of Assam.
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:26:00 - [69] Originally by: Nikla Uthaan Sure, halve training times. So long as I can have my current skillbase doubled, distributed how I'd like. QFT -------------- Dang nabit
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:55:00 - [70] "Halving training times is the best idea ever for eVe. It is good for newbs and empire based pilots to have a chance to level up and compete with all vets and allow them to spread in low secs and null secs." By logical extension it is best idea for EVE to eliminate the skill model altogether -- just allow everyone use everything at maximum proficiency straight from the first login. Anything lesser is not allowing the "newbs and empire based pilots" to be on the equal footing with people who already spent time and money on the game ... and as such it must be hurting the game if i follow your view on it. By equally logical extension the same should be done with game items -- as long as anyone isn't straight from the start equipped with all the game has to offer in unlimited supply, they are in disadvantage when facing someone who does. Which is apparently a no-no so clearly we must get rid of it. ... the nearest FPS du jour that way ----> It will offer you everything you are asking for.

Romulie Minmatar M.A.C.K.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:52:00 - [71] I disagree with lowering the training times. This is what makes this game different from others. Also it cheapens the skill training. Work it like the others before you. Time and patience are what make this game great.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:04:00 - [72] Originally by: DunNa There is a certain point where its not worth it... Being stuck in crappy ships with crappy fittings because you don't have 2000mil sp invested in gunnery or no where near enough in fitting skills and well it really cuts into making isk/pvp. Funny, I played this game (shockingly) since the days when I had about 100k SP, and enjoyed every minute of it. I loved the challenge of doing level 2 missions in my frigate, I tried mining and manufacturing, I got into PvP when I only had a few million SP and a cruiser to my name (could have even earlier, but didn't get the urge too ) and loved the sense of achievment every time my skills "unlocked" another interesting bit of technology for me to try out. So a handful of players are impatient and want to be flying Battleships by their second week. Tough. It'd ruin the game, period. -----------------------------------------------
JADE DRAG0NESS	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:06:00 - [73] I have to admit id love this considering im still just a few days old and very eager to go out there and compete. Cant do that in a slasher with basic guns.
Nikla Uthaan Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:15:00 - [74] with only 200-300k skillpoints (considering people can start with 800k these days i dont find that unreasonable :P) you can fit a nice PVP frig for frigpack operations. Oh thats right, it's an MMORPG, you actually have to work with others, not just instantly fly an omgwtfpwnmobile. Man,, first time I've used that god awful argument which gets thrown at mish runners. ----------------- One word,, emo,,, The Mishing is an ethnic group in the districts of North Lakhimpur, Sonitput, Dhemaji, Dibrugarh, Sibsagar, Jorhat, Golaghat, Tinsukia of Assam.
deathforge The Accursed	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:17:00 - [75] Edited by: deathforge on 02/01/2007 01:18:34 Originally by: JADE DRAG0NESS I have to admit id love this considering im still just a few days old and very eager to go out there and compete. Cant do that in a slasher with basic guns. You already got 8 times the skillpints at creation everyone else did, let's not hear any compaints On a side note, this character is 5 months old, -10 sec, and until revelations had 220,000 skillpoints (now i have 600k more useless skillpoints). I was -7.2 sec before my first 24 hours in game with a rifter and unnamed crap for mods. Halving training times is just being lazy, specialize like the rest of eve PS: 98% of the time I fly entirely solo, frig packs are for goonfleet and failures
Nathanial Victor	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:17:00 - [76] hey. here is an idea! Lets just hand out 50million Skillpoint characters for all the people that cant be bothered to invest time into the game. Even better, for ppl that feel 'left behind' and dont like the drag of making isk to pay for ships, lets just have cheat codes . we can have one for free isk, one for finishing skill, one for extra 20k shield HPs ... ok sarcasm off. retarded idea. catering to the lazy ftl
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:18:00 - [77] Edited by: Siege on 02/01/2007 03:21:19 Sure, I agree. I always found this whole system slow and I hate the fact that there will always be somebody with more skillpoints than me. We should just put a maximum cap on things. I also think we should just convert this whole over-complicated skills system to a flat 'level' system that improves all your stats across the board. I think that's all we need. Except Elves, turn all the ships into Elves... maybe some dwarves for good measure. God knows that Skeletons have been overdone, so lets leave them out and call the game original. We need SOMETHING to separate it from all the other cookie-cutter MMO's out there. Either that, or use your braincase and appreciate the system for the glorious idea that it is. It may seem rough now at your point in the game, but just wait until you get some time into the game and realize that the time spent holds a lot more reward for its efforts than grinding a city of diseased gnomes for two weeks. This isn't a game that you just play for three months, hit level 60, and unload your character on E-bay. This is a game that you keep, because there is no limit to what you can do.
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:19:00 - [78] To OP: yes, cutting training time in half would be great. Enjoy the selfish flames though ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Angel Violette N.W.A	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:08:00 - [79] I dont think decreasing the training time by 50% is a good idea.. however it would be nice to train more then one skill at time... and say have like a training percentage so you want to train this level V skill and a level I skill set the level V to train at say 70% of learning capablitiy, and then do the level I skill using the rest of the % so then you could train a long skill, but still get some other skills or something Just an idea
Nnam Pir	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:29:00 - [80] I'll be happy when I start seeing the +7 attribute implants on the Market. Even though they'll be ungodly expensive...

Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:36:00 - [81] damn 70 odd opposing posts :P well meh im happy waiting another 5-10 years for all the skills in the game :D --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Jarnau Gurgeh	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Nox Solaris Yes, everybody that's already spent years trianing the skills they have? Though I agree, shorten training across the board. Kick anything above a cruiser out of nuub corps. No lvl 3 or 4 agents for nuub corps. No freighters for NPC corps. No lvl 4 agents for NPC corps. /signed additonal: no lvl3 agents no acess to areas under 0.4
Lowanaera Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.01.02 08:04:00 - [83] I'm a relatively new player, two months, halving training times would definitely benefit me greatly. However, I see absolutely no need for it. There's a threshold you can reach inside a year where you're pretty much on the same level as a 2003 character. They're able to fly a dozen or more different types of ships at max effectiveness, while you can only fly one at that level, but in that one ship you're perfectly able to compete. The only thing I would change would be to do away with learning skills, they're boring and it doesn't feel like you're actually making any progress when you're training them.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.01.02 08:47:00 - [84] Originally by: Jarnau Gurgeh Originally by: Nox Solaris Yes, everybody that's already spent years trianing the skills they have? Though I agree, shorten training across the board. Kick anything above a cruiser out of nuub corps. No lvl 3 or 4 agents for nuub corps. No freighters for NPC corps. No lvl 4 agents for NPC corps. /signed additonal: no lvl3 agents no acess to areas under 0.4 Ahh, the little empire griefers pokes out their little heads Thread hi-jacking is bad, mkay? And to the OP. BAD idea! What makes EVE diverse is that players are FORCED to specialise, often to a high degree. Lessening training times would take away from that. Long training times means a player has to make his choices and live with the consequences. It means that fleets will consist of all types of ships, not just the flavor of the month. It means that you can feel that you've accomplished something when you train BS 5 (or worse). It means that those willing to specialise gets benefit from it. Most of all, it means we're not having loads of whining WoW kids around!!!!! You can make a perfectly usable character with very few skills trained to 5. I did that with my main, and can now fly every class of non-capital ship with all relevant skills at 4+ for my chosen race (Caldari missile). This has been about a years work. Only thing missing for the char is gun skills (could be trained in 3 months if I wanted to). If you want a game where you can train everything, try WoW... General advice: Stop whining!
babyblue	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:16:00 - [85] I have to admit to getting a real sense of achievement when I hit amarr carrier 5 and before that when I hit Amarr Battleship 5 (despite the obvious disadvantages to choosing that path a few years ago) and my alt with Gallente Freighter 5. It isn't like you have to sit and watch the SP incrementing or anything. I suppose you always want to be training something that will help with what you are doing now, rather than what you will be doing in two months time. Thats why it's good to build up an all-round character first and then specialize.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:18:00 - [86] Training times are fine. They are there not as a timesink but to give players a sense of accomplishment and pride once they reach high levels. Its to make the struggle meaningful and promote specialization. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Regulator02	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:27:00 - [87] Look at it from CCP'S point. Long training times means more playing time means more money for ccp. Business wise smart idea. In a sence why would they cut that in half. Or am I totaly wrong on that. Playing wise I agree it's a pain to wait for those skills. But, if everybody had the same things where would the fun be in that.
Mikel Crenshaw Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:27:00 - [88] I don't really mind the training times myself. Halfing them, in any case, would be far too extreme a reduction. Even a 25% decrease may be too much. As is the NPE system they have in place gives enough of a boost to starting characters and that was really all that was needed. Just remember that level five is not that much better than level four, but it can give some good benefits but at a heavy cost in time. The way it is right now is just fine as I see it. If you want to be good at something quickly, train up to level 4. If you want to be great at something in the long run then bite the bullet and put the time into level five. --------------------- "I am not a liberator. Liberators do not exist. The people liberate themselves."
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:32:00 - [89] Originally by: Regulator02 Look at it from CCP'S point. Long training times means more playing time means more money for ccp. Business wise smart idea. In a sence why would they cut that in half. Or am I totaly wrong on that. Playing wise I agree it's a pain to wait for those skills. But, if everybody had the same things where would the fun be in that. Like I said, the mmorpg companies arent putting in time sinks to earn money. They put them in to make the work meaningful. Of course they also earn money, but it also make the game worth playing at the same time. If you could get what you want quickly, then you would feel you have finished the game quickly, and start whining for more content (or quit). --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:42:00 - [90] Why do a generic slash of training times? Eve has, if you simplify thins alot, three types of skills. #1: Basic skills, thise are the ones that have low or no prerequisits, the skills usually train fast with the most time consuming ones being the BS skills and similar. Any player can in a fairly short time gain all thise skills to some level and this allowes for wide diversification. #2: Advanced skills, thise skills are general skills but with high prerequisits meening you will have to play for a fairly long time to aquire thise skills. A player has to make a commitment to the game (in time) to gain thise skills and the player is rewarded for it by being a bit better with them. #3: Specialized skills, Thise are basically T2 and capital skills, it is the intention of CCP that at this point you will be forced to specialize, should you go for Amarr or Gallente, go for tackling or damage, scouting or support. A very old players main advantage over a younger one is that he will be able to alternate between more of thise functions as he has the time to have trained several roles, it is however the intent of CCP that noone should be able to train all thise roles and thus the very long training times for them. Additionally the new players already have a heads upp on us old players, when I started a very large number of skills simply didnt exist, the best skill training boost you could get was learning 5 and a +5 skillbased stat boost. Today a new player starts with considerably more skillpoints, he has a possible +10 from skills and implants to boost ever further. As for altering training times... While some skills take a long time to train there are alot more skills that take a very short time to train thus in short dont ask for a straight cut of training times, rather ask for a cut in specific skills ranks. My guess would be that CCP would be alot more sympathetic to a good argument to lower the rank of this or that skill than the eloquent "halve training times" presentation. If a skill takes too long to train, and there becomes a concensus on this, its alot more likelly that CCP will alter the skills ranks than alter the skillpoint formula, it would be faster, easier and have a far lower chance of mucking the game upp. I can at present however not think of a single skill that I feel takes too long to train and being an old char many if not most of the skills I train are of the 30+ day training type.

Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:11:00 - [91] Originally by: Jim McGregor Training times are fine. They are there not as a timesink but to give players a sense of accomplishment and pride once they reach high levels. Its to make the struggle meaningful and promote specialization. Agreed, and people that act like all you do in EVE is watching skillbars move is getting a bit old, you can play the game while trainign you know!
Flaming sambuka Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:03:00 - [92] Hey, why not just switch skill training over to a wow style xp gaining system, you know, kill 2 guristas spies and get 67xp, sweet Trinity Nova Mercenary Services
MMXMMX Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:07:00 - [93] Originally by: MyDoctor Edited by: MyDoctor on 01/01/2007 11:03:10 I think there should be some kind of advanced-advanced learnings if you have the normal and the advanced skilled to lvl 5, you've the possibility to get 5 points more. That would be a good thing and even fair to the older ones advanced-advanced learnings sound great . Or maiby +6 implants or even +7 implants .
Flaming sambuka Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:13:00 - [94] Originally by: MMXMMX advanced-advanced learnings sound great . Or maiby +6 implants or even +7 implants . I dont agree with the advanced advanced learning, trainign adv learning to 5takes too much time to be really worth while unless your planning on playing for years more, the implants tho, much needed :D Trinity Nova Mercenary Services
Hertford Ars Caelestis Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:14:00 - [95] Halving training times is already implemented in the game. Characters start with 39 attribute points. Taking the learning skills to 4 and the advanced learning skills to 4 nets you 8 points per attribute, or 40 in total. Skill training times are based off of attributes. You start with 39, can easily add 40 with skills, giving you 79. Overall, this will halve your training times.
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 12:08:00 - [96] Originally by: Samirol I disagree because the training time is part of eve's nubbin filter. If you dont want to wait 60 days to get capital 5 or whatever, then dont spec in it. I heard that ccp were thinking about getting rid of adv learning skills and halving in training time. Though i think that would be great for newer players but then ccp will need to work out a way to compensate those who had already trained those skills. ThatÆs why what we got instead was the pre-requirements to train adv-learning skills. But back on topic. No training times is perfect atm. If your waiting for 60days for a skill then its a pretty big skill.
Sartaron Amarr Circle of Violence	Posted - 2007.01.02 12:21:00 - [97] Edited by: Sartaron on 02/01/2007 12:23:02 Edited by: Sartaron on 02/01/2007 12:21:43 Well, I think the training times are correct. But i think that the requirements for some ships are far too low. Yes, you are reading right. I think especially with T2 ships, there should be more requirements. And they should add more advanced skills on the basic ones. Mostly, the difference between 2 players is just the 5% from leve 4 to level 5. There should be really hard to learn advanced skills for those who really want to specialize. Another solution could be a sixth skilll level, that takes the same amount of time to learn than the 5th level. Some kind of "Master-Level". This Master-Level should not be a prerequisite for any other skill, so that nobody trains it, because he just needs it for something else in his skill progression.
Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:29:00 - [98] Originally by: Tisanta ?? I disagree. Leave them as they are.
Sathynos Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:33:00 - [99] I disagree and I sure hope CCP disagrees too. -- "Say yes to pron on Concord billboards" campaing. Eve mercenaries portal: http://www.eve-mercs.com
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2007.01.02 14:04:00 - [100] Originally by: Ash Vincetti omg. you already get a 800K skillpoint advantage at character generation. What more do you want? QFT. As it stands now the new character creations will kit your characters skills to the correct specialisation. If you do your character correctly then the sp don't become an issue. To give you an example. My character is nearing 8 million SP. Because this is literally one of my first characters the spread of SP means I am not an expert in a lot of areas but I have a good spread. It is only recently for example I could fly good ships with good load outs. My friend on the other hand has 5 million SP. When he started he had a clear idea of what he wanted to do (combat fighter) and has been flying ships I couldn't for ages and happily sailing through level 3 missions, while they are still a little tricky for me. The only reason I can think someone wants the training time halfed is because they have either messed up, or want all the skills in the game.

Admiral Pieg Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.02 14:07:00 - [101] See what youve done ccp? PLEASE remove the new trial and bring back the tard-weeding mechanicsm that was the steep learning curve of old. ______________ Pod from above.
Exelsior Endangered Species	Posted - 2007.01.02 14:11:00 - [102] Leave training times as they currently are. This means that: 1) People have to specialise. 2) 14 year olds from WoW leave the game and we have a more mature community. 3) I won't hate myself for spending 56 days doing capital ships to 5 lol.
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.02 14:33:00 - [103] Originally by: Tisanta oh ok.. well i like playing for the challenge too but it gets a bit boring waiting on those lvl 5 skills that take 60 days.. sorta cancel ur eve account for 2 months and play WoW for 2 months.. not that i would do that but it is SOOOOOO tedious... It's not that hard to play eve while waiting for a skill to finish. I never understood why people cancel their account to wait on a skill. Is EVE not fun, but will somehow magically become fun after that one skill is done? Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer
Mesacc Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:52:00 - [104] /sign, but not everything. Some of the lev5 training times are rediculous, they could use some cutting back. Of course that is gonna pi$$ off people who already trained the skills, but like alot of other people say on these forums..."adapt"!!
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:54:00 - [105] No I dont agree. Why Eve-online is a time sink, its not ment to be won, there is no end game. Ask Cyvok and ASCN. If you halved training then what, your character will be sitting around with nothing to do...and your want more skills to train...etc...etc Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Mog Carns Gallente Iron Hammer Academy The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:01:00 - [106] I joined EVE with Revelations. I started with a paid account, I did not know a trial existed. I wasn't waiting on Revelations, I was just maxxed on my elf tolerance, and investigating the usually half done and poorly implemented Sci Fis. As a player of Darkspace, I knew for a fact that EVE was the absolutely last place I needed to look. However, I decided to check it out on the off chance that I might be one of the total 4 people on the entire planet who likes it. I love it. Others who are skeptical have tried it and loved it in my wake. The skill system lets me go on a date with my wife without falling behind, join up a with a friend who started yesterday and a buddy who has been playing two years (fictional, for example only) at the same time, and all i have to do is make money when I feel like it. If I log in, sit in a station, and use the chat box for four hours, there is nothing the worse for it. If I decide to try mining, I lose nothing. If I sit outside a station waiting for the non blue to come back out, I lose nothing. I like the system, and I like the immense time it takes. When I have a carrier of my own, with fighters swarming, it will feel good. I would like to have a skill in the learning tree that allows you to cue up one skill to start when the previous finishs per level. That would be nice. But I can live without it. Clueless Noob
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:06:00 - [107] It shouldn't take level 5 of anything to use ANY piece of equipment. Equipment req should top out at level 4. And level 5 should not be a pre-req for any other skills either. Other than that, no I don't think skilltimes should be halved. If you want to max something out to level 5, it should take as long as it currently does. It would be worth it to do only if you are a specialist.
Rhaall	Posted - 2007.01.02 16:43:00 - [108] I remember when I first started playing WOW at release, and some guy hit level 60 in TWO WEEKS! I figured then that the game would be a big dissapointment and it was. EVE training time is fine the way it is.
Katrina Coreli Soar Angelic	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:25:00 - [109] Originally by: Tisanta Originally by: Katrina Coreli Im guessing you have a big skill to train and want it over quicker? Sorry m8 but /not signed that means you agree that they should be halved by doing double negative making posetive? either way nope im quite happy floating around in my pilgrim i just felt like stiring up sumthing for those bored people to discuss while its downtime.. like me:D im providing you with a nice sirvice! be happy people of eve! Stop confusing me! Also "/" means end rather than negative so i was ending my "not signed" post as such "/not signed
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:05:00 - [110] Edited by: j0sephine on 02/01/2007 18:07:01 "I heard that ccp were thinking about getting rid of adv learning skills and halving in training time." They lowered requirements of advanced learning skills to lvl.4 of basic learning skills instead of lvl.5 which is excellent change imo as it shortens considerably the training (okay so am biased because i've been asking for exactly this kind of fix) For that matter i'd like the same thing done to the other skills (lvl.4 being the top pre-requisite to train anything further up the chain) ... which would work much better for what the OP is asking than just halving the skill training across the board, but realistically i don't see this quite happen :\|

Ghoest	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:09:00 - [111] If training timer was cut in half I would cancel today. Call me petty, I dont care. Frankly much of whats happening(or not happening) with the game has me unhappy, but I holding out for improvments. If they destroy the one thing in my favor for hanging around, then Im done. Wherever you went - here you are.
De'Hestus Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:21:00 - [112] Absolutely not. I am speaking as a player who has only been here two weeks now. Every single game always has the whiners that want everything the veterans have and they want it NOW. I left SWG after the devs there buckled under the pressure and nullified my year and a half grind for Jedi by making it a class that anyone could have right from character creation. I don't want to see that again. Leave things just the way that they are.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:34:00 - [113] Yes, I disagree with changing skill training time and yes its partly because I spent a lot of time already training them. If thats sour then get over it. I also think the skill training time makes eve what it is, the best MMO out there. Change one thing and it will change the other just has it always has done with other MMOs that take the easy option part way through there life. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:28:00 - [114] my god, some of you are damn stupid, you will quit because your now able to learn something twice as FAST? you say that the noobie 14 year olds will ruin the game etc, well there will be more bastard kids to shoot. i think 1/2 is to much, maybe lower the actual skill points down for skill book. the game will evenually die with older player because the grind is to long for new gamers. as new books come out, they will requirer more sps, thus making the older players untouchable. i think it will happen, more and more MMORPGs are coming out and if you want your trials to convert you goto give them something to do other than train skills that get you in crap ships.
digitalwanderer Gallente The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:01:00 - [115] Don't need it or want it,since i'll be running out of skills that i want to train up this year as it is... Need T3 gear or T3 ships to keep me interested(3 1/2 year old char BTW).
Ghoest	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:07:00 - [116] Originally by: FuzzBuzz my god, some of you are damn stupid, you will quit because your now able to learn something twice as FAST? you say that the noobie 14 year olds will ruin the game etc, well there will be more bastard kids to shoot. i think 1/2 is to much, maybe lower the actual skill points down for skill book. the game will evenually die with older player because the grind is to long for new gamers. as new books come out, they will requirer more sps, thus making the older players untouchable. i think it will happen, more and more MMORPGs are coming out and if you want your trials to convert you goto give them something to do other than train skills that get you in crap ships. No. Just because I my priorities arent yours doesnt mean Im stupid. You ugly fat *****(random insults are fun eh?) Currently the game is getting stale. Im only keeping my sub up hoping it gets better. If they make it so I dont even get an advantage out of that Im gone. Ill just come back later if they make it fun. Wherever you went - here you are.
Martin Mckenna Caldari Navy Raiders DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:14:00 - [117] if they were to ever do that i realy would quit eve for good.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:20:00 - [118] Originally by: Mangold Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /signed. Halving training times is the best idea ever for eVe. It is good for newbs and empire based pilots to have a chance to level up and compete with all vets and allow them to spread in low secs and null secs. The idea holds well with warp to zero. Everyone has the same feature and can compete equally. By the way, WTZ is halfway implemented. Please allow WTZ for autopilot. It makes no sense to have WTZ for manual pilot and WT15 for autopilot. Not signed. And being a vet (+3 years in game) I'd not be pleased if those years suddenly becomes worth less as it's faster to train everything. Sure, half the training time but then I want that on all my old skillpoints too..... /SIGNED to halving training times. Halving training times will not change the gameplay. Everyone had instas before and WTZ did not change the gameplay. It levels up the gameplay for new and old players. Instas and WTZ do not affect serious eVe pilots. Halving training times will not change the gameplay. Old pilots had the skills and young pilots could level up faster. At the end, the gameplay is levelled up for new and old players. Halving training times does not affect serious eVe players who already have the skills. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Kylania Gallente Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:40:00 - [119] I disagree. I enjoy playing a game where you're rewarded for sticking with it and being patient. I don't want to play the kind of game where you can get to mid levels in a day, max out in a week as many WoW converts seem to want EVE to become. The functional levels of skills are already quick enough to get into. The advanced skills really should take as long as they do currently. Not everyone needs to max out EVE quickly. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| How to Build from a BPO
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:40:00 - [120] "Halving training times will not change the gameplay. Old pilots had the skills and young pilots could level up faster. At the end, the gameplay is levelled up for new and old players." So again, if the goal is to allow people to be on equal footing why not remove skill training altogether and just give people complete skills right from the start? Anything less than that will still be "too slow" for some of the players, after all. And that is apparently bad.

Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:45:00 - [121] Originally by: j0sephine So again, if the goal is to allow people to be on equal footing why not remove skill training altogether and just give people complete skills right from the start? Anything less than that will still be "too slow" for some of the players, after all. And that is apparently bad. Unfortunately CCP thinks otherwise. WTZ is a good idea. Halving skill training times is a great idea. Bringing more players to eVe is the best idea. All other games allow new players to catch up with old players but eVe does not allow that. How can it be bad? WTZ is good. Halving skill training times is great. More subs to CCP is best. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:14:00 - [122] Eve has managed just fine for 3 years. Why now do we suddenly need an influx of more players and quicker skills? This game has progressed steadily and been all the better for it. Its player base grows at a rate CCP seem able to manage. It has enabled CCP to become one of the better known names in the gaming industry and has successfully balanced (in the main) old and new players in this time. Short skill time, sure I'll be in my carrier quick sharp. Trouble is I won't have earnt it, can't afford it and everyone else will be there with me. Maybe we should suddenly increase all isk rewards at the same time and freeze all market prices so everyone can be on that same steady ladder together. Way to kill a game with these silly ideas that keep strolling in off the pavement. If it ain't broken, Don't fix it. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Zirator Times of Ancar THE R0NIN	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:19:00 - [123] I disagree This would be very unfair for everyone who is playing for quite a bit now. It would only cater to the noobs that we don't want in this game. And with noobs I'm not talking about people who just begun playing but a different kind of gamer.
GI0VANNI	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:19:00 - [124] *******s to that. The olny way i will accept it is to have CCP doubly my skill points. I have invested a lot of time n skill points in this game for that to happen.
Major Stallion Caldari The Dark Horses	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:20:00 - [125] I, personally, love this aspect of Eve. Set a skill to train, and you don't even have to be online to gain skill points, unlike many other MMO's. The ONLY thing i WISH there would be--and i'm not really sure in what form--is some sort of combat experience which goes towards other skills, or something along those lines. But as it stands right now, the thing that makes Eve unique is its skill training system. Although it doesnt allow the newer players to catch up to older players in skill points, but correct allocation of your training time will make you a viable PvPer in the longrun.
Nikla Uthaan Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:38:00 - [126] CCP would never halve training times, simply because it would cut their own development schedule time in half. At present, it takes a bit over 3 years iirc to train every skill to max. To double skill training speed would cut that to one and a half years. My point? People who have been playing the game since the word go (and some are still around) would only have about 5-6 months of skilltraining left, meaning CCP has 5-6 months to release more skills. Double skill speed means they now have less than 2-3 months to release new skills and stuff. Less development time = poor quality product = more ***ing and moaning on the forums ----------------- One word,, emo,,, The Mishing** is an ethnic group in the districts of North Lakhimpur, Sonitput, Dhemaji, Dibrugarh, Sibsagar, Jorhat, Golaghat, Tinsukia of Assam.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:44:00 - [127] "Halving skill training times is a great idea." No, Jenny; halving the training times doesn't change anything because you still have people who already played the game for monrhs when new people join, so there's always the skill gap to "catch up" if you are viewing the difference in skill level as some sort of game-breaking obstacle. It doesn't matter if you make two year worth of catching up into a year worth of time, it's still going to be too much for some people. The only way to give what you want would be to make everyone have all skills from the very beginning. After all if i make alt now, they'd be forever at disadvantage to you, so it's logical to provide my alts with all the skills you have spent months training, otherwise i'll never catch up. What would you say about this kind of change to the game?
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:10:00 - [128] Originally by: Rhedea Originally by: Nox Solaris Kick anything above a cruiser out of nuub corps. No lvl 3 or 4 agents for nuub corps. No freighters for NPC corps. No lvl 4 agents for NPC corps. What happens when a corp dies? Where do you go? I think a fixed tax rate of 20% would be better, pay to be in a n00b corp. interesting idea. i think that replacing noob corps with a new corp in which the player is the only member - but there is no CEO, so all ceo related abilities and corp management are removed. this would also allow the war deccing of those who hide behind NPC corps, or on those pesky AFK/macro miners (though i sincerely doubt there are many who use macros, more likely sweat-shop accounts). ========================================== Iy

kieron	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:22:00 - [129] There are no plans to reduce the amount of time it takes to train skills. Some consideration is being given to reducing the level requirement of certain skills from level 5 to level 4. Also on The Drawing Board is the possibility if adding a training queue (with some limitations) or dual skill training, but no development has been done to date. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Nikla Uthaan Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:28:00 - [130] Heh, dual skill training would be pretty sweet,, so many times I wish that 22 day skilltrain would go that little bit longer so it'd last out the entire time I'm on my training courses. ----------------- One word,, emo,,, The Mishing is an ethnic group in the districts of North Lakhimpur, Sonitput, Dhemaji, Dibrugarh, Sibsagar, Jorhat, Golaghat, Tinsukia of Assam.

darkmancer	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:36:00 - [131] Personally i'd like to see the trainning times of skills shortened but to the effect of lenghening overs. Hey want cruise missile spec 5 halfed - fine but double the time it takes to learn refine/research/whatever, would still take the same time to learn everything (forever) but it'd allow specialists to max out quicker, it might also tempt me to train some sp on the over chars besides my main. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong
Morgen Amarou	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:31:00 - [132] Training times seem to be working as they should. There should NOT, for instance, be 10,000 players who can fly a titan, or able to do any other extremely advanced task, let alone be able to do 2 or 3 or 4 of them. Isn't it enough that (1) you can train as many or as few skills as you want and (2) you can do it offline as well? Specialization in Eve goes many layers deep. Diminishing returns insures that you can be extremely competent in many things in Eve (reach level 4), but to reach the epitome of specialization in a certain field, you have to eat those diminishing returns (reach level 5).
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:01:00 - [133] Long skill training time is the price we pay for 1. Having characters whose skills evolve rather than remain static. 2. Having no endgame or ceiling to speak of. 3. Having every skill in the game open to us, instead of being stuck playing a "class". Make training times too short, and you make much of that meaningless. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:13:00 - [134] i knew it was only a matter of time till the WoW fanboys that invaded these boards came up with this suggestion :/ -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.- -nerf Missles-
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:17:00 - [135] Originally by: kieron There are no plans to reduce the amount of time it takes to train skills. Some consideration is being given to reducing the level requirement of certain skills from level 5 to level 4. Also on The Drawing Board is the possibility if adding a training queue (with some limitations) or dual skill training, but no development has been done to date. pretty please change the skill reqs for carriers to advanced spaceship command IV.
The Fates Perkone	Posted - 2007.01.03 04:17:00 - [136] Cutting training times will 100% anger the existing player base, and I think they know that. Reducing the requirements for some things will do that too if the reductions are too great. It takes so long at this point that I'm stumbling with the issue too, since I'm at the point of considering whether or not to keep playing EvE. In that consideration there is something I'd like to say... The reasons why specialization is important, and the reason why certain things in EvE are relatively rare is due to the extreme costs and time involved in training the skills and aquiring the appropriate resources, and too many changes in this area could be game breaking, imho. I think the entire problem can be solved from a different angle than either of the solutions provided, and that this problem is a symptom rather than the cause. The solution imo lies in changing the game so that there is more to do, and different rewards, and losses, since this is EvE, while you train those longer skills. The problem that results from the current skill and game system arises from players being bored due to a lack of progression... and that, as I've said elsewhere, after isk is no longer an issue to you, or you have no urgent need of it, then skill points is the only character advancement, and there needs to be more... I don't have the right answer, I'm just trying to point in the right direction here. The short answer is reducing training times isn't a good idea, and I don't think that will really solve the underlying problem. Remember, older characters train faster than you from day 1, if you reduce training times, or requirements, they advance even faster than a new player... As far as you catching up to an older player, thats where specialization comes in, but that requires a certain plan, and dedication to that plan, careful research and knowledge of the game, and how you like to play it, all of which a new player is unlikely to have or do right from the start. Perhaps some new things could be put into the game to help new players into a specialized path, while giving them more to do while long skills train, and that might help to solve both issues... as well as helping the worst side of EvE, which is PVE. Originally by: My Best Friend You do realize, you could get a college education before you train all those skills?
Lorth Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:51:00 - [137] I'd be up for duel training till a certain level. Certainly not for an allaround halving of the training times, I think that opens up a whole new can of worms, including vets who have already mastered one races, or multipile races if they didn't go for capital ships being very overpowered. Since I have no plans for Lorth to learn to fly any capital ships, imagine what would happen when I out pace new skills by a ways, and have time to train up say.. missile skills and caldari BS 5.. To add to my collection of tech 2 fitted ships.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 10:27:00 - [138] Originally by: Nikla Uthaan CCP would never halve training times, simply because it would cut their own development schedule time in half. At present, it takes a bit over 3 years iirc to train every skill to max. To double skill training speed would cut that to one and a half years. My point? People who have been playing the game since the word go (and some are still around) would only have about 5-6 months of skilltraining left, meaning CCP has 5-6 months to release more skills. Double skill speed means they now have less than 2-3 months to release new skills and stuff. Less development time = poor quality product = more *****ing and moaning on the forums 3 years? Make that 20 years!
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:39:00 - [139] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 03/01/2007 11:47:58 Originally by: Nikla Uthaan CCP would never halve training times, simply because it would cut their own development schedule time in half. At present, it takes a bit over 3 years iirc to train every skill to max. To double skill training speed would cut that to one and a half years. My point? Not even close. I've been playing for just shy of three years, I'm at 45M Skill-points (essentially going all out on any skills related to Gallente Battleships, no T2 ships), and I am only 1/8th of the way to training every skill available in game to the max - I know this from maxed out ISD characters on Sisi posting their skill/skill-point totals, it's over 360M total Skill-points now... Gariuys' 20 Year estimate is a pretty good guess I would say... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Syril Mert Serenity Technology	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:41:00 - [140] I don't want half training time. The training time is keeping the impatient brats out of this game :)

Zirze	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:06:00 - [141] In 2 years if EVE Online is 5 Years old ... the SP-Rangs between new and old players is too high . I think it should be give free SP for new player every Year so they are after 1-2 Years in same SP-range with players which start 2003. such as Player 1 (start 2003) have 2006 ~ 40 Mil SP Player 2 (start 2006) have 2006 ~ 0,8 Mil SP after 1 year Player 1 (start 2003) have 2007 ~ 4X Mil SP Player 2 (start 2006) have 2007 ~ 4 Mil SP + XX Mill SP (Bonus SP for 1 year playing) = 20 Mil SP ... in year 2008 next bonus and same SP like Player 1 and no more bonus xp next year (2009) and for all who think "oh no i have so hard work for this" ... lol which hard work you mean? skilltrain afk is for me no hard work ... In all other mmog¦s new players have a chance to catch up old players ... but no in Eve. P.S.: sorry for my bad english^^
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:18:00 - [142] No. What might be a good idea is to make all level 5 requirements into level 4 requirements instead (except maybe for rank 1 or 2 skills), so that if you decide you want to use something you don't have to wait a month. But that's the only change I'd make. After that, if someone feels that he "can't play" until some +8% bonus has become +10%, to the point where he thinks that he should suspend his subscription until that +8% has become +10%, because there is nothing he can do with +8% but without +10%... well, he can fire himself out of his torpedo tubes for all that I care.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:48:00 - [143] Originally by: Zirze In 2 years if EVE Online is 5 Years old ... the SP-Rangs between new and old players is too high . I think it should be give free SP for new player every Year so they are after 1-2 Years in same SP-range with players which start 2003. such as Player 1 (start 2003) have 2006 ~ 40 Mil SP Player 2 (start 2006) have 2006 ~ 0,8 Mil SP after 1 year Player 1 (start 2003) have 2007 ~ 4X Mil SP Player 2 (start 2006) have 2007 ~ 4 Mil SP + XX Mill SP (Bonus SP for 1 year playing) = 20 Mil SP ... in year 2008 next bonus and same SP like Player 1 and no more bonus xp next year (2009) and for all who think "oh no i have so hard work for this" ... lol which hard work you mean? skilltrain afk is for me no hard work ... In all other mmog¦s new players have a chance to catch up old players ... but no in Eve. P.S.: sorry for my bad english^^ 1/ You're not supposed to catch up. 2/Hard work?, how about paying for subscription for much longer... or do you propose discounted subscriptions for vets, maybe 50% after 3 years? ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Na'Kunni Amarr Warped Mining	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:30:00 - [144] I agree to some point, but seriously its what makes this game what it is also, the fact its not for the impatient, and usually impatient people crave for power, like the power crazy WoW kids who spend day an night playing an get to lvl 60 in like a month an half then realise they have to grind grind grind to get the uber powerful epics, then ** the game off cause they cant do it in a matter of days... I do agree to maybe add an option to raise your attribute points maybe that extra bit higher, but not training skill times by half wtf lol Originally by:** Xenofur Everyone wants to kick you in the nuts until your voice is stuck at the pitch of a japanese schoolgirl for the rest of your life.
Sean Dillon Caldari FM Corp	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:44:00 - [145] I wouldn't mind, if I can get in a dread under 60 days that would be cool imho.
Na'Kunni Amarr Warped Mining	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:48:00 - [146] Originally by: Sean Dillon I wouldn't mind, if I can get in a dread under 60 days that would be cool imho. thats considering you have a main to fund your guy for the dread?? its like a thread i made about someone sigs saying 800k SP, Day One:Caracal.. Day Two:Ferox gj ccp was something like that, but what i written gets to the point.. If your a new player starting out (which i doubt you are :P), you still wont be able to fund for bigger things, so long training times = more time gathering money/experience to get ready for when you grow bigga Originally by: Xenofur Everyone wants to kick you in the nuts until your voice is stuck at the pitch of a japanese schoolgirl for the rest of your life.
Yumina Tsumiko	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:54:00 - [147] Originally by: Nerf Caldari I sure as ******* hell would. I play this game for a challenge, not instant gratification. Wow, right-click to change skill is a challange now seriously though, i wouldnt mind either way tbh.. but ccp have now got chars that come out of the oven at 800+sp!!! thats pretty sweet imho... combine that with the change to allow advanced learning to be trained at 4 rather than 5 and its quite a boost... I dont see how implants (as someone suggested) really impact that given they've not released new ones with higher +'s that i know of. What i would be all-for is perhaps 3months of double-speed training for newbies (or maybe double speed only on the learning skills?), as halving the skill training time across the board benefits the vets as much (if not more) as the new players
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:59:00 - [148] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: kieron There are no plans to reduce the amount of time it takes to train skills. Some consideration is being given to reducing the level requirement of certain skills from level 5 to level 4. Also on The Drawing Board is the possibility if adding a training queue (with some limitations) or dual skill training, but no development has been done to date. pretty please change the skill reqs for carriers to advanced spaceship command IV. Because we really need MORE carrier pilots --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:29:00 - [149] Originally by: Audri Fisher pretty please change the skill reqs for carriers to advanced spaceship command IV. 200 days to use a carrier properley dident phase me. what phases me is the combined skillbooks cost more than the dam carrier. advanced spaceship command? easssssyyy, BS 5 is the long one, and A.S.S.C is only 90m 500m for carrier and 360m for capital ships, thats the real bastard when it comes to training carriers. -
Stakhanov Gallente Newbies On Xstacy	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:10:00 - [150] The skillpoint gradient is fine at the moment , specialization doesn't seem massively overpriced time wise. The +800k starting SP makes things much easier for newbies (but also alts) yet has upset the balance somewhat. It's fun to kill noob fitted BC/BS but it looks so wrong... RP wise especially , tell me why a clueless navy cadet who entered space a week ago should fly such massive ships ?

Mashie Saldana Minmatar Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:32:00 - [151] In a few weeks I will be able to fly a command ship and I'm really looking forward to undock it. If I only had had to wait a week or so to get it most of the fun had been lost. For T2 it is good that there are a few lvl 5 skills needed but a few more weapon related skills added to the list would be welcome. T1 ships should need a few weapon/support skills as well (lvl 1 for frigs, lvl 2 for cruisers and lvl 3 for battleships). That way we might see less battleships fitted with small or medium weapons.
Billy Sastard Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:44:00 - [152] I did not read all of the replies to this post, so forgive me if I repeat, but... We do not need training times halved! This would be a bad thing. What would happen to all the people who have been playing the game for years? Would they suddenly have 50% of their SP 'freed' to spend to instantly get new skills (the skills they could have trained in the past, given the reduction in time), I think this highly unlikely. I could see a move like this drving away quite a few players. The training times are really not all that bad, you just have to find stuff to do while you are working on that next skill. EVE is the only online game I know of where I can take 2 weeks off from the game and still advance in the game. That alone is worth the time it takes to train skills. -=^=-
Phalyssa Truixim Caldari Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:38:00 - [153] I find this thread amusing. Of course they aren't going to halve the times. But so many people coming out and saying long training times are good...how would you like to double training time then? That adds to the "challenge". Quite frankly, that is a load of bs. Training time has nothing to do with challenge or skill. I'd rather an outcome of a fight be determined by the actual skill and knowledge of the person rather than whether or not some guy started training since Beta. Really, the only thing halving the time does is makes it faster for people to get to their goals. Once they get to their goals, they will probably get bored and move to a different MMO. CCP will keep training time as long as they can get away with so it will never change. Plus, everyone would complain since they will think new players are getting it easier (which they are now anyways with how much SP they start with).
Spektral Caldari DarkStar 1	Posted - 2007.01.03 17:15:00 - [154] Originally by: kieron There are no plans to reduce the amount of time it takes to train skills. Some consideration is being given to reducing the level requirement of certain skills from level 5 to level 4. Also on The Drawing Board is the possibility if adding a training queue (with some limitations) or dual skill training, but no development has been done to date. Personally, I dont see the realism (sorry for the term) of the toons stopping learning at a arbitrary # of points. Allow for the skills to continue to accrue past the barriers and only stop them when they hit 5. I dont know how many days/weeks I have lost to training snafus over the last 2.5 years. Plus this mitigates newer players losing valuable training time as well.
Cammulos Magnetar Ltd DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.01.03 17:24:00 - [155] Edited by: Cammulos on 03/01/2007 17:25:32 Long train times suck and are totally tedious, but man is it the right way to go in this game. Devs don't change a GD thing. I've been workin on Amarr BS 5 now for god knows how long and I still have a good month to go, and man would I be ****ed if right after I got my Revelation the train times got cut in half, so yeah. Not gonna happen, too many old timers would quit. I do support 'elite' or whatever learning skills tho, heck even an advanced learning skill would be nice. The 60 day training is quite nice tho, I've played for 7 months now and have found my own niche with a good variety of modules/guns/missles/ships to fool around with, so its plenty time to enjoy the game and not worry about the other crap.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.03 17:53:00 - [156] Training times as they are now: Lenient. We train a skill to highly usable level in less than a month for any and all skills. Even Titan level 4 is trained to level 4 in less than a month. Level 5 is square root of 32 times longer time and meant for those who not only want to be good, but cutting edge. If you want to discuss accessibility, do it properly and discuss level requirements, as mr Yellow-bar pointed out above there are plans to make certain skills more easily accessible by reducing requirements to level 4 skills rather than level 5 skills. Here's a few numbers, for the unenlightened: Skill point gain rate per year is roughly 15 million for a non-specialized character. While it is difficult to numerically assign illustrative values to a skill point's worth, one can say that it declines by (sqrt(32))^(skill's level). This means that a character can be viewed as being one level higher if he is 5.66 times older. Translated, EVE still has no "level 5" character. Regardless of my skill point amount (which is somewhere in the upper 40's) I am infinitely worse at capital ships than, for example, Farjung. Also, when I am flying an Armageddon, I have the skills associated with a 6 month dedicated character - I'm not even using 30 million of my skill points, not even as prerequisites! It is, at the end of the day, a strict matter of how you spend your time, and thus your skill points. It's not like halving training times is going to solve anything. Fundamentally, new players might need to be even more fortified than they are now, even after the character creation boost! Skill points in EVE is only a measurement of worth for the ignorant, and decisive for the stupid. Once past a certain threshold, which is entirely dependant on your motive and direction, all skill points will grant you is diversity. No. We do certainly not need to cut training times down by half. We do not need more people ignorant of what they are doing flying ships far too expensive for them. We do not need cheaper alts floating around as secondary and tertiary characters on accounts. We don't need to dumb this game down to get masses of people into it - EVE is sick.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.03 18:19:00 - [157] I say no to doing anything at all with skill time or SP. It's already bad enough that people can spam 800kSP suicide alts now.
Constantine Arcanum Gallente IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2007.01.03 18:23:00 - [158] Originally by: Tisanta damn 70 odd opposing posts :P well meh im happy waiting another 5-10 years for all the skills in the game :D 19, actually. I helped - Cortes What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1 I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:24:00 - [159] Sure. I'll go for halving the training times. One condition though: CCP has to refund me half of my subscription fees over my 5 accounts for the roughly 3 years I have been playing each. I think that comes out to around $1350 USD, roughly. Hell, I'll give them a price break like they do for us signing up for more than one month at a time and call it an even $1200. Only one problem though: Hell would freeze over and Satan would have frostie treats for all the good little boys and girls before CCP gave ANY of its customers ANY kind of a cash refund for ANY reason. So, I guess that kinda puts a damper on the whole idea, huh? Seriously though, you have a problem with training times the way they are? Do what the rest of us do: PLAN your character build according to your own NEEDS and WANTS. If you like quick gratification, I guess your limited to the low rank skills. Nothing wrong with that, you can make some MORE than decent builds sticking with low ranking skills, I know, I've done it. You want to fly with the big boys? Then you have to pony up the subscription fees and put in your time just like the rest of us had to Noobin. Sum up: That's a BIG "no way Noob" on the messing with the training times. You want to train faster? Put in the effort to run missions and earn high end implants. Next!!! * *
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:32:00 - [160] Well since you asked for 'opposers' to respond, I'll respond. I disagree with halving training times. Changing prereqs from 5 to 4, on the other hand, sounds like a smart move if done with care. Even though I was already at advanced 4's when CCP changed the advanced prereqs, I was pleased that they did that. Originally by: oveur EVE is primarily a PVP game from the following dev post

Gothikia Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:52:00 - [161] training is fine the way it is atm, does not need stuff done to it.. _________________________ ISD pwned my last sig.. just imagine a really hawt guy with cool eye makeup on and a pic of a deimos with my name on it... gothie > mods tbh, muahaha one love, gothie &#
Aneis Evisceration. Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.03 21:54:00 - [162] I completely disagree with this. ___
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:39:00 - [163] I do disagree with halving training times, because it would be for everyone. However, every day the gap between old players and newbies born this day becomes bigger, and bigger, and bigger... Advanced training skills are no solution : they are both used by newbies and vets. Implants are WORSE : they require cash that newbies don't have, and just make vets cruise ahead even faster. For me there is only two solutions possible : 1 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition when under a SP limit 2 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition of only a certain set of skills (I prefer this one) "Acquisition" is NOT training. I think that you need something that requires the player to be active, and should not work for alts never undocking, breed only to be sold. To avoid the "vets have much more money" problem, it should not be something that can be traded. In a hurry I can think of two ways: - Missions including things of the kind of "1.000 SP in electronics" as bonus time rewards. - Loot items wich cannot be moved at all out of wrecks, only right click "destroy" or "use" and also give a small boost in SP in a predefined skill. Do not allow the player to chose were the SP go and only have a limited set of basic skills wich can be improved this way. Considering the discussion in this thread and the little time I took to think about it, it's a solution wich reduces the "I'll just never be able to compete" feeling of beginners, doesn't make vets think "that's not fair!" as much (because it requires work from the newbies and is not a complete gift to them), and is not easily exploitable by "what is undocking?" future "WTS" alts. Have a nice day.
Reiisha Satal's Legion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:47:00 - [164] Originally by: Tisanta ?? Only if you can promise me 45 million extra SP to cover the almost 4 years i spent on training what i have now. EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
LuthienTinuviel Starlancers	Posted - 2007.01.04 01:48:00 - [165] well hmm lemme see I still have 3 to 4 months to train for carriers do i want it halved? god no what would be the point..... Eve isn't easy and should not be it is also for the long term if you want the big toys also has anyone ever said to you specialise? I know characters younger than my main that are more skillfull in certain fields than I will probably ever train him. Old sig.... will update soon tm
RedLion Caldari evenova	Posted - 2007.01.04 01:50:00 - [166] Activity rewards, please! If it's just a little, please!
DR HK Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.04 02:01:00 - [167] Edited by: DR HK on 04/01/2007 02:01:55 TO THE OP WITH THE GREATEST OF RESPECT NO MEATBAG!!
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.01.04 02:11:00 - [168] It's fine. Also I'd rather not have 1/2 of my skilltraining time sinse feb 2004' be a waste. I see absolutly no reason for this change to happen. Eve does not need to be made "more friendly" in the skill manner, it just needs more content for the players starting out. And CCP is adressing this. There are thousands of reasons why this should not and will never happen.
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.04 03:36:00 - [169] Originally by: Kaaln Learning skills help a great deal, but I think if I was forced to train them and nothing else during my first month I would have gone insane. I barely managed it as it is. Many people would get bored and quit too, I suspect. I suppose the new starting skill points help with this though.. yeah, learning skills are a horribly boring part of the game. over a month training them, no new skills. sooo boring!
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2007.01.04 04:02:00 - [170] Actually, I think we may be looking in the wrong direction. If you double the rate that players train skills, then it simply means that older players will be TWICE as far ahead, compared to how they are now. Take the number quoted a few posts back of 15mil points per year. Player A: Starts January 2007. Player B: Starts January 2009. Under the current rate, that will give a 30mil SP advantage when player B starts. Under a double rate, it means player A will have a 60mil point advantage. So, if the goal is to give more equality, and less of a point advantage to older players. Then you would actually want to SLOW skill training down. And while it may reduce the gap, it will have its own consequences as well... such as people leaving the game when Cruiser V becomes a 2 month skill as opposed to the 1 month skill it is now. This means major tweaking to skills requirements for a lot of stuff as well.

Zirze	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:33:00 - [171] Originally by: Forum Joe However, every day the gap between old players and newbies born this day becomes bigger, and bigger, and bigger... For me there is only two solutions possible : 1 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition when under a SP limit 2 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition of only a certain set of skills (I prefer this one) Very nice suggestion especially (1) this is better as my suggestions in some posts earlier. point 1 is very good to make the difference smaller between old and new players ... for a PvP Game it is very important that all player have the same "Level" ... and every new patch bring more skills so old player have max old-fighting-skills and can skill the new-fighting-skills to lvl5, but newer player have not max old-fighting-skills and can only max his old-fighting-skills or new-fighting-skills ... never ending story. I wait for a changing to make the gap smaller between old and new players!!
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:37:00 - [172] fleets of 100 dreads would sure break the game if they were too common ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:50:00 - [173] Edited by: Sylthi on 05/01/2007 07:53:00 Originally by: Zirze Originally by: Forum Joe However, every day the gap between old players and newbies born this day becomes bigger, and bigger, and bigger... For me there is only two solutions possible : 1 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition when under a SP limit 2 - Have a system wich allows faster SP acquisition of only a certain set of skills (I prefer this one) Very nice suggestion especially (1) this is better as my suggestions in some posts earlier. point 1 is very good to make the difference smaller between old and new players ... for a PvP Game it is very important that all player have the same "Level" ... and every new patch bring more skills so old player have max old-fighting-skills and can skill the new-fighting-skills to lvl5, but newer player have not max old-fighting-skills and can only max his old-fighting-skills or new-fighting-skills ... never ending story. I wait for a changing to make the gap smaller between old and new players!! I couldn't disagree more. Why should it be that you should, in effect, be "rewarded" for not having played the game for as long as others? Why should new players get a leg up that the old players didn't have? WHY is it important to have everyone at the same "level"? If everyone was at or close to the same "level" then PvP in Eve would become as POINTLESS and BORING as in other MMOs. Also, all #1 would do would be to encourage more players to develop "disposable" characters on thier accounts to use in situations that they didn't want to risk their "mains" in. It really wouldn't "help" in any way except to cater to the "instant gratification crowd", which in my opinion, do not belong in Eve in the first place. #2 is equally as pointless. It would unbalance the game TERRIBLY (more than it already is) a give certain professions even MORE of an advantage over others than they already have now. (I.E. Oveur HIMSELF has stated on more than one occassion that "Eve is primarily a PvP game." This is a statement which I HATE, and deeply want them to change. Eve IS and SHOULD BE much more than that, and they should STOP giving so much love to the PvPers and start thinking about the rest of the player base a little more. Oh, and yes, I AM a PvPer. But, I digress.) Which group of skills would you boost? Combat or starship command skills I assume? So you could get into that ship or mount those weapons you want SOONER? Because, lets face it, that is what the core thought and purpose behind BOTH of these ideas is. YOU want something, (whatever that "something" might be) and YOU want it SOONER than the game is going to give it to you. Sum up: FACE FACTS the way us old timers had to. If you want a high ranking skill at level 5, you're going to have to pony up the subscription fees and WAIT for it; just like all the REST of us had to, Noobin. * *
Draqun Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:54:00 - [174] Originally by: Stakhanov RP wise especially , tell me why a clueless navy cadet who entered space a week ago should fly such massive ships ? Their Father was a senator and CIA cheif? --------------------------------------- First rule of playing EVE online If your too paranoid to play Eve your not paranoid enough to play Eve
Draqun Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:58:00 - [175] Well lets be honest, I am for halfing the time it takes to get to level 5 in a skill if they raise the cap to level 10. . . . and it takes longer to get to 10 than it did originaly to level 5 --------------------------------------- First rule of playing EVE online If your too paranoid to play Eve your not paranoid enough to play Eve
Zirze	Posted - 2007.01.05 08:55:00 - [176] Originally by: Sylthi I couldn't disagree more. Why should it be that you should, in effect, be "rewarded" for not having played the game for as long as others? You have more ISK and Items as a new Player, you have more Standing for Agents, you have more played and viewed as new player ... why you think you have only paid for SP??? New Player have NO time machine to go back to 2003 and start the game ... i never heard about EVE before i started 2006 ... Originally by: Sylthi Why should new players get a leg up that the old players didn't have? Because you have a 3 Years advance in SP and a new player never catch up you?? Because now is now and then is then? Because BPO II Pool are empty and new player have nothing? Because everything is changing? Originally by: Sylthi WHY is it important to have everyone at the same "level"? All say EVE is without pro gamer ... but for me is old player (2003) = pro gamer ... new player (2006) = casual player. Originally by: Sylthi If everyone was at or close to the same "level" then PvP in Eve would become as POINTLESS and BORING as in other MMOs. Why?? ... If everyone has the same "level" in PvP the better player win¦s and not the player who pay longer for his SP in EvE. Why you think if you pay longer for EVE then you are a better player and all new player = "cannon fodder". ... then CCP can make a button in "my account" pay 500$ and i become a GOMODE-Skill/button because i have paid more $ as you Why is it BORING if everyone have the same SP ... the "fitting" is not the same and not all take the same skills for his SP.
SwitchBl4d3 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.05 09:12:00 - [177] its only a week more than bs 5 Originally by: Stavros BUNGLE IN JUNGLE? J tHX OMG YEAH CHICKEN WINGS K? LOLLER SKATESWIHT LUBE K? MIUOINKEYT!!!
Ultim8Evil Lunar Dawn Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.05 09:17:00 - [178] Originally by: Tisanta oh ok.. well i like playing for the challenge too but it gets a bit boring waiting on those lvl 5 skills that take 60 days.. sorta cancel ur eve account for 2 months and play WoW for 2 months.. not that i would do that but it is SOOOOOO tedious... So basically, what you're saying there is that you only pay your subscription to EVE to train skills and when you're not training skills, you've got nothing else better to do? Lol, how sad. WoW is that way --------> --------------------------------------------------------------------
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.05 10:01:00 - [179] Originally by: Zirze ... then CCP can make a button in "my account" pay 500$ and i become a GOMODE-Skill/button because i have paid more $ as you It already exists. Sell GTCs for ISK, buy a character with those ISK. The only good thing is that, at least, the money goes into CCP wallet, instead of an ebayer
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.05 14:26:00 - [180] I think leaving it as is would be just fine. In fact, reducing requirements for some skills to only level 4 of the primary skill might be a bit much. If you don't put the time in to get level V in one skill...why should you be able to advance to the next? As far as people asking why older players should be the only ones getting the rewards, they're not. They've simply spent more time working for what they have. I've not seen any *good* reasons why player x with 6 months should be as capable as player Y with 4 years. This mimics reality, as well. In the military, you're not going to jump to master sergeant in a month just because Billy Bob, who's been in 18 years, is a master sergeant and you don't think it's fair that he has it and you don't. In Eve, you're not going to jump into a carrier just because billy bob has one of those and you don't think it's fair that you have to wait. Billy Bob put in the time and effort and research to get the skills and isk required. So what if you joined the game a year later.

Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2007.01.05 15:25:00 - [181] Originally by: Zirze Why?? ... If everyone has the same "level" in PvP the better player win¦s and not the player who pay longer for his SP in EvE. Why is it BORING if everyone have the same SP ... the "fitting" is not the same and not all take the same skills for his SP. So after that extremely long set of quotes you are saying you want us all to peak at lvl60 just like some other games out there. You just lost your own argument mucker. Just reactivate your wow account and give up. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Serendib	Posted - 2007.01.07 20:10:00 - [182] The beauty of eve is that unlikely any other mmorpg you don't have to grind grind grind and grind a bit more to level a bit. In here the only factor that counts is TIME, yes how much time you have the account and not how much time you been online playing. Did the starter of this post ever think why does most of eve players have between 25 - 35 years? Because unlikely other mmorpg people that play this game have a real life, they work, most have families and can't play 24/7 like some kids do. Why do they play eve? well they play eve because eve allows them to have a good char without the need of being 24/7 leveling it, you just need time to get the skills. If you don't like the current system then go search any of the other 20 mmorpgs where you can spend an entire month awake and be n¦1. This ain't that kind of game and i love it because of this. So i decline this offer and hope that all others do.
Nicholai Thomasovich Caldari Acerbus Vindictum	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:54:00 - [183] It's not just time, it's how smart you play. If you nailed down those crucial 1.4 million SP in Learning early in your career, you will already be learning much faster than those that don't. If you manage your characters carefully (either through the old pen and paper, or a utility like EveMon), you can maximize your training times. A player with 1 year in that spent his first two months mostly training those Learning skills will catch up to a several year vet who didn't. THAT'S what I love about the game.
Reiisha Satal's Legion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:04:00 - [184] Originally by: RedLion I think there should be rewards for active players... Limited training boost or whatever. They already get a reward by spending more time, thus getting more isk/sec status/standing in the process than people who play less. Making the gap even bigger would be simply stupid. EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:06:00 - [185] Can't we let this thread die yet? -----------------------------------------------
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:35:00 - [186] worst thread ever. skill training should stay the way it is. newbs should stay where they belong (everyone was a newb once so why should we suddenly remove this part of game experience? 800k sp starter chars is bad enough, imo they should be brought back to 30k). Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Trilliam Blackthorn	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:41:00 - [187] The only changes I would like to see to training time(s) would be to implement a system that decreases training time as relevant skills are used in the game...i.e. if you're doing PVE, PVP, using combat-based skills would decrease training times in those areas. the same with mining, etc. Maybe as some kind of bonus?
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:51:00 - [188] Read first page only, so excuse me if this has been covered. No. Im sorry, but that just goes against the way the game works for me. However, a new genereation of Learning skills would be in part of the game and it would decrease learning time. Storm Thesis CEO
Joe Chancian Minmatar Priuma Interstellar Commerce	Posted - 2007.01.23 19:21:00 - [189] Arr! Die thread! DIIIIEE! ----------------------------------------- "You think they know what we're doing?" "Well, we're not here to sell cookies.. So they know something's up.." I'm all out of sig.
Soon Tzu	Posted - 2007.01.23 19:42:00 - [190] TTC's for the eve-store... Training Time Cards, buy yourself some skill points, at the low low low price of a 90 day GTC, but the reward is instant (after the next DT, you have those points applied to the skill you selected...) get 3 months of training overnight.... me...naaaa, others would like it...and with 7-8 months the average time a player stays ingame, ccp wouldn't lose much, might even retain a few players longer (and make some real isk in their bank accounts too)

Claude Leon Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.01.23 20:33:00 - [191] Originally by: Nox Solaris Yes, everybody that's already spent years trianing the skills they have? Though I agree, shorten training across the board. Kick anything above a cruiser out of nuub corps. No lvl 3 or 4 agents for nuub corps. No freighters for NPC corps. No lvl 4 agents for NPC corps. Wow, force everyone into a player corp. Maybe some people actually like being in NPC corps. That allows them to enjoy the game withou worrying about some griefers declaring war on them. No,No and No. CCP already bowed down to the whining of people who wanted to compete against 2-3 year old vets. This is getting old. If you don't like a long training skill, then DON'T train or just stop playing. null
Vizranuh	Posted - 2007.01.23 20:51:00 - [192] I'm not a fan of waiting for training either, but it's not something I wish is changed. Yeah, I'm impatient and I want my new skillz done so I can use them etc, but whatever... not that big a deal for me. However, I do wish the new character creation would allow you a certain amount of SP to spend and allow you to choose what you want to spend them in, instead of the presets currently given. Cheers --
MYSTERY ALT	Posted - 2007.01.23 21:16:00 - [193] Cutting down training times by a little bit would do wonders for opening up the market to more gamers. I know alot of people are in the "keep the game as complicated as possible and as hard as possible" crowd, but they are in the vast minority, eve is getting a little stagnant as more players get bored of waiting for skills to train, the isk grind for ships to PVP in and quit. Forcing newer players to wait half a year to fly a fun spaceship in a video game is a bit much, and puts alot of people off playing EVE.
CrimsonSky Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 21:17:00 - [194] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Mangold Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /signed. Halving training times is the best idea ever for eVe. It is good for newbs and empire based pilots to have a chance to level up and compete with all vets and allow them to spread in low secs and null secs. The idea holds well with warp to zero. Everyone has the same feature and can compete equally. By the way, WTZ is halfway implemented. Please allow WTZ for autopilot. It makes no sense to have WTZ for manual pilot and WT15 for autopilot. Not signed. And being a vet (+3 years in game) I'd not be pleased if those years suddenly becomes worth less as it's faster to train everything. Sure, half the training time but then I want that on all my old skillpoints too..... /SIGNED to halving training times. Halving training times will not change the gameplay. Everyone had instas before and WTZ did not change the gameplay. It levels up the gameplay for new and old players. Instas and WTZ do not affect serious eVe pilots. Halving training times will not change the gameplay. Old pilots had the skills and young pilots could level up faster. At the end, the gameplay is levelled up for new and old players. Halving training times does not affect serious eVe players who already have the skills. Wow Jenny... in the (Admittedly short) time I knew you, I didn't ever get the feeling that you were one of the 'newbies have no way to catch up to the vets' crowd. Newbies in EVE already have it far better than newbies in any other MMO out there. No, they'll never catch up to a veteran players SP total. But how many other games do you see where a 1 month old newbie in his Frigate is able to kill a year and a half old character in a Cruiser, despite the older character having 20x the newbies SP? And as has been said by other posters, in EVE you don't have to catch up to the other player's SP-Total to compete. You only have to become good in a single ship, and know what you're doing. Sure, the 2003 player can probably fly six ships that would kill yours without breaking a sweat. But if he's in one of the dozens of ships you can kill him in, he could have 150 million SP, it isn't going to save him, is it? Also I, and quite a few other EVE players, I'm sure, like that EVE is a game where you set goals and work towards them, instead of starting a character and being in a Titan within two months. Many EVE players (And judging by Dev comments and the way the game has gone, CCP also) like that it takes time to work your way towards what you want. CCP doesn't need to make the game into Easymode-Online, because the game they made has been steadily growing since release, whereas other MMOs start out strong and slowly die. They don't need a huge influx of fourteen year old instant-gratification kiddies who want everything handed to them on a silver plate, then get bored and leave within 2 months. What a game needs to survive is a dedicated playerbase who enjoys the game, and will keep playing it. They have this, and this playerbase is constantly growing. Why risk losing a good thing on the chance that these changes could prop the subscriber numbers up for a year and then have the game die? "But again, EVE is much less focused on combat and dangerous encounters than other online RPGs"-Gamespot.com
CrimsonSky Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 21:20:00 - [195] Originally by: MYSTERY ALT Cutting down training times by a little bit would do wonders for opening up the market to more gamers. I know alot of people are in the "keep the game as complicated as possible and as hard as possible" crowd, but they are in the vast minority, eve is getting a little stagnant as more players get bored of waiting for skills to train, the isk grind for ships to PVP in and quit. Forcing newer players to wait half a year to fly a fun spaceship in a video game is a bit much, and puts alot of people off playing EVE. Yes random alt, EVE is getting stagnant and players are leaving in droves. Which explains the constantly increasing number of subscribers. Nothing says a game is stagnating and slowly dying like an increasing number of subscribers. "But again, EVE is much less focused on combat and dangerous encounters than other online RPGs"-Gamespot.com
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.23 21:23:00 - [196] Originally by: MYSTERY ALT Cutting down training times by a little bit would do wonders for opening up the market to more gamers. I know alot of people are in the "keep the game as complicated as possible and as hard as possible" crowd, but they are in the vast minority, eve is getting a little stagnant as more players get bored of waiting for skills to train, the isk grind for ships to PVP in and quit. Forcing newer players to wait half a year to fly a fun spaceship in a video game is a bit much, and puts alot of people off playing EVE. It's always been the same, if not worse for the veterans. When I started out (my other characters) when the game was released there were no advanced training skills or good implants. We now have huge attribute boosts with these items but to counter those we have very long training times for advanced skills. Well that sounds about right to me.
The Armin Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.23 21:26:00 - [197] No matter what y'all say you gotta agree long lvl5 rank6 skills are boooooring. Could speed them up, I certainly wouldn't mind
Claude Leon Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:07:00 - [198] Originally by: CrimsonSky Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Mangold Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /signed. Halving training times is the best idea ever for eVe. It is good for newbs and empire based pilots to have a chance to level up and compete with all vets and allow them to spread in low secs and null secs. The idea holds well with warp to zero. Everyone has the same feature and can compete equally. By the way, WTZ is halfway implemented. Please allow WTZ for autopilot. It makes no sense to have WTZ for manual pilot and WT15 for autopilot. Not signed. And being a vet (+3 years in game) I'd not be pleased if those years suddenly becomes worth less as it's faster to train everything. Sure, half the training time but then I want that on all my old skillpoints too..... /SIGNED to halving training times. Halving training times will not change the gameplay. Everyone had instas before and WTZ did not change the gameplay. It levels up the gameplay for new and old players. Instas and WTZ do not affect serious eVe pilots. Halving training times will not change the gameplay. Old pilots had the skills and young pilots could level up faster. At the end, the gameplay is levelled up for new and old players. Halving training times does not affect serious eVe players who already have the skills. Wow Jenny... in the (Admittedly short) time I knew you, I didn't ever get the feeling that you were one of the 'newbies have no way to catch up to the vets' crowd. Newbies in EVE already have it far better than newbies in any other MMO out there. No, they'll never catch up to a veteran players SP total. But how many other games do you see where a 1 month old newbie in his Frigate is able to kill a year and a half old character in a Cruiser, despite the older character having 20x the newbies SP? And as has been said by other posters, in EVE you don't have to catch up to the other player's SP-Total to compete. You only have to become good in a single ship, and know what you're doing. Sure, the 2003 player can probably fly six ships that would kill yours without breaking a sweat. But if he's in one of the dozens of ships you can kill him in, he could have 150 million SP, it isn't going to save him, is it? Also I, and quite a few other EVE players, I'm sure, like that EVE is a game where you set goals and work towards them, instead of starting a character and being in a Titan within two months. Many EVE players (And judging by Dev comments and the way the game has gone, CCP also) like that it takes time to work your way towards what you want. CCP doesn't need to make the game into Easymode-Online, because the game they made has been steadily growing since release, whereas other MMOs start out strong and slowly die. They don't need a huge influx of fourteen year old instant-gratification kiddies who want everything handed to them on a silver plate, then get bored and leave within 2 months. What a game needs to survive is a dedicated playerbase who enjoys the game, and will keep playing it. They have this, and this playerbase is constantly growing. Why risk losing a good thing on the chance that these changes could prop the subscriber numbers up for a year and then have the game die? I couldn't have said it any better.
Shu'val	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:18:00 - [199] Hmmm, it would be nice, on the other hand you can earn isk for the things you are actually training for. Take carriers for instance, I'd be buggered if I was sitting about training, or even turning eve off whilst it trained as I would'nt have the isk for the skills and ships. Play eve, skills allow you to do more as time passes. Just enjoy and explore what you can do.
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:20:00 - [200] Can someone please derail this thing already.

Taaketa Frist	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:22:00 - [201] I LIKE STRAWBERRYS WITH CREAM!!!!! -------------- Dang nabit
sartorii Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:36:00 - [202] i cant believe this is even a discussion. ah the "gimme gimme gimme' crowd has found eve i see... suck it up, get some implants and try not to get podded to often.. tbh i want the 'bonus' points you nubs get at creation now added where ever i like.. what did the 'new blood' really do to deserve it that the vets didnt? *To Bad Ignorance isnt Painful*
Betonela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.24 01:00:00 - [203] mammaa i wanna get all EvE skill at lvl 5, and leave after 3 week couse is bored to the best on all --------- join on New Movement of Market Traders
Commander Sten	Posted - 2007.01.24 02:00:00 - [204] lol, this post reminds me of last week when i caught and dragged a 14 yr old and a 13 yr old back into the local store for shoplifting. while waiting for the cops, turns out both punks have lvl 60 WoW characters. instant gratification is for loosers. get with it, or get out
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.01.24 02:04:00 - [205] yay for my thread still going! --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.24 02:24:00 - [206] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /signed. Halving training times is the best idea ever for eVe. It is good for newbs and empire based pilots to have a chance to level up and compete with all vets and allow them to spread in low secs and null secs. The idea holds well with warp to zero. Everyone has the same feature and can compete equally. By the way, WTZ is halfway implemented. Please allow WTZ for autopilot. It makes no sense to have WTZ for manual pilot and WT15 for autopilot. _________________________________________________ Breetime
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.24 02:27:00 - [207] Originally by: Tisanta yay for my thread still going! Hmm....please tell me your corp ticker isn't what I think it is. (If you woke up breathing today, CONGRATULATIONS!, you get another chance!)
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.01.24 02:28:00 - [208] Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: Tisanta yay for my thread still going! Hmm....please tell me your corp ticker isn't what I think it is. yep yep it is but why does it bother you? --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.24 02:39:00 - [209] Originally by: Tisanta yep yep it is but why does it bother you? Bother me, oh no. I think its quite apt actually. Originally by: Tisanta i cry when i read your sig...
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.01.24 02:59:00 - [210] Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: Tisanta yep yep it is but why does it bother you? Bother me, oh no. I think its quite apt actually. haha so funny i just relized what it says! --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes

Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.24 03:11:00 - [211] Originally by: Tisanta haha so funny Just being an ass 'cause I can't sleep. On topic again, I dont agree with your OP. Originally by: Tisanta i cry when i read your sig...
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.24 03:14:00 - [212] Go away. Little kids this is not for you, WoW is that way -------> Eve is for adults. Stop watering down the game.
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.01.24 03:15:00 - [213] neither do i any more.. lol.. Im the OP kill my thread down with the fool who started it! --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Tripoli XenTech	Posted - 2007.01.24 04:29:00 - [214] j0s and Reiisha understand. Want to half training times? Give me 58 million SP to distribute wherever I want. What happens then? Then, I have every skill in the game trained. ALL OF THEM...and with 35 million skill points to spare. Then what? No. Just no. --- 321 of 341 skills trained.
Bawldeux IV Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.01.24 04:40:00 - [215] I like pie.
nutbar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.01.24 04:42:00 - [216] I wouldn't complain - it'd mean that instead of me having lost over a week worth of training time due to missing scheduling new skills for numerous reasons, I've only lost 1/2 a weeks time instead :D
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.24 06:08:00 - [217] One of the issues that you do run into that drives people who love the idea out of the game is the fact you'll never catch up to some of these 'uberpwnpowergamers' that have been here so long. A graduated system that would speed up character development earlier, then slow you down after say, ten mil sp, might encourage some who despair at how far behind they are to give it a go anyhow. Because there is far too many occurances where all other things being equal, simple time ticking away means this character can pwn you and you don't even get the option to flee the situation (too many almost instant pops IOW). Especially since they bashed so hard on stabs (not that an Amarr or Gallente ever really got to utilize them that much, but still). The three years of history lends to too much tilt to people already established as well as lends to alliances already established. It SHOULD lend SOME tilt. It should not be the 'don't bother even trying' button it usually is for these older guys and gals. ------ Sub ends Feb 13. No you can't have my stuff, why should I reward bullies and phishers?
Jokim	Posted - 2007.01.24 06:20:00 - [218] Originally by: MyDoctor Edited by: MyDoctor on 01/01/2007 11:03:10 I think there should be some kind of advanced-advanced learnings if you have the normal and the advanced skilled to lvl 5, you've the possibility to get 5 points more. That would be a good thing and even fair to the older ones Redicilous idea would force new people to spend EVEN MORE time in learning (thats what free trial people do now btw, start doing learning skills as they basically are required, decide this game reeks of manure because they have no progress, quits the game) I say REMOVE LEARNING SKILLS FROM THE GAME !
Jokim	Posted - 2007.01.24 06:22:00 - [219] Originally by: Lyn30101 One of the issues that you do run into that drives people who love the idea out of the game is the fact you'll never catch up to some of these 'uberpwnpowergamers' that have been here so long. A graduated system that would speed up character development earlier, then slow you down after say, ten mil sp, might encourage some who despair at how far behind they are to give it a go anyhow. Because there is far too many occurances where all other things being equal, simple time ticking away means this character can pwn you and you don't even get the option to flee the situation (too many almost instant pops IOW). Especially since they bashed so hard on stabs (not that an Amarr or Gallente ever really got to utilize them that much, but still). The three years of history lends to too much tilt to people already established as well as lends to alliances already established. It SHOULD lend SOME tilt. It should not be the 'don't bother even trying' button it usually is for these older guys and gals. Its not too bad really I had this mindset when i first started the game too, but realised that its not such a huge deal First of all, theres a limit to how much SP you can have in one branch for it to be useful You couldnt have 70m SP in missiles even if you wanted, there simply arent that many skills Secondly, you get 80% of the benefit of a skill in 20% of the time it takes to get it to lvl 5 The main difference between someone with 3m sp and someone with 50m sp is the 50m person has all the support skills at lvl 5, while the 3m guy has them at 4
The Fates Perkone	Posted - 2007.02.20 11:17:00 - [220] Some really good things said since I posted in this thread last. Like this one. All say EVE is without pro gamer ... If, by pro gamer, you mean the typical version where there is a level playing field and the only difference is the actions, reflexes, computer equipment, and internet connection, then this is correct. EVE is not Quake. OTOH, I think that your "pro gamer" should find that this system is much more challenging. I don't think the bar should be lowered for them. I think if they are as good as they say they are, then they should overcome a lack of skill points with actual skill and intelligence, and prove the "pro" state of their gaming. To put the blame on EVE for this is an excuse. Skill points is often not the deciding factor in a fight. That said, EVE is not commercially viable in the same way as other games and that's a problem of which the developers are probably aware. I don't believe EVE was designed with this sort of competition in mind, and in my mind that is a good thing, in others minds I'm sure it is not, but that doesn't mean you should be down on it becuase it doesn't fit into the cookie cutter impression of professional gaming. To make a game like this fit would require you to re-think some things and realize that its not the same animal. It is, imho, a BETTER one, but thats an opinion. I could add more to other points but they've been beat to death. Any reduction of training times will benefit older players more unless they are limited to the new players, and really if you don't have the patience to train long skills, you won't have the patience to aquire the wealth and connections needed to use them. These concepts go hand in hand. Originally by: Napoleon Bonaparte Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force.

Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:40:00 - [221] perhaos some sort of system where repeatedly fighting npcs made us gain skills...
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:46:00 - [222] Why won't this thread die?! -------- Originally by: Constantine Arcanum most problems can be solved with chloroform.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:45:00 - [223] Yes, half the training times, it's stupid that you have to buy multiple accounts in order to access what you want in the game (mining/production/trading alt, Capital alt, racial pvp specialist/mission runner/ratter, covert alt, etc.). I don't care about all the time I could have saved in the past it's about the future. It allows me to actually have one character and play that instead of the bleeding alts. My skillpoint advantage over others will remain the same and it's not like you'd be able to complete the skill tree (currently 16+ years with max implants, would be cut to 8+ then). Another solution could be to allow training on all character slots on an account, still lame, but at least it wouldnt mean having to buy multiple accounts in order to enjoy all content. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:50:00 - [224] No. But there could be a lot of T2 stuff that didn't require loads of lvl5 skills. If you wanna fly around in an Absolution for example you should be allowed that without having to take lots of very high ranking skills to lvl5. Wanna fly around in that baby with lots of lvl4 skills? Be my guest. I'll pwn your face with my lvl5 skills that I took the time to train as a personal choice. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.02.20 14:29:00 - [225] Originally by: Nifel No. But there could be a lot of T2 stuff that didn't require loads of lvl5 skills. If you wanna fly around in an Absolution for example you should be allowed that without having to take lots of very high ranking skills to lvl5. Wanna fly around in that baby with lots of lvl4 skills? Be my guest. I'll pwn your face with my lvl5 skills that I took the time to train as a personal choice. Agreed. It's kinda dumb that lvl 5s are a requirement and as such most ppl try to get them at some point. It would be a lot better if those lvl 5s would be "that something extra" instead... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
RaTTuS BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.20 14:41:00 - [226] reducce everything by a factor of 10 - there that solves everything .. the only advantage of reduced 1/2 train times is that the longer skilled people whouylc have more advantage - ... -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal \| RaTTuS @ Skills Showroom
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.02.20 16:19:00 - [227] Edited by: DrAtomic on 20/02/2007 16:16:07 Originally by: RaTTuS the only advantage of reduced 1/2 train times is that the longer skilled people whouylc have more advantage - ... Incorrect, what most people fail to see is that halving training times would unlock access to the games content through one character instead of through multiple characters. Fact is that you cannot experience everything in EvE without training for a stupid amount of time, given that the average player plays for 7 months and that access to all content requires around 8 years something is wrong... very wrong. We've accepted specialization too much to the extend that we're screaming no to halving training time only because it would make it easier for others to specialize the way we are specialised. But what people are forgetting is that it would allow us to deversify our specializations and with that unlock access to more content. Any serious 0.0 player nowadays has at least 2 accounts, one pvp account and one carebear account, The truly dedicated are running a third account for capitalships. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2007.02.20 16:30:00 - [228] Originally by: DrAtomic Any serious 0.0 player nowadays has at least 2 accounts, one pvp account and one carebear account, The truly dedicated are running a third account for capitalships.[/quote and this being true is going to motivate ccp to change things? eve is a game for the patient not the fast twitch gamer.
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2007.02.20 16:30:00 - [229] Originally by: Zirze Originally by: Sylthi I couldn't disagree more. Why should it be that you should, in effect, be "rewarded" for not having played the game for as long as others? You have more ISK and Items as a new Player, you have more Standing for Agents, you have more played and viewed as new player ... why you think you have only paid for SP??? New Player have NO time machine to go back to 2003 and start the game ... i never heard about EVE before i started 2006 ... Originally by: Sylthi Why should new players get a leg up that the old players didn't have? Because you have a 3 Years advance in SP and a new player never catch up you?? Because now is now and then is then? Because BPO II Pool are empty and new player have nothing? Because everything is changing? Originally by: Sylthi WHY is it important to have everyone at the same "level"? All say EVE is without pro gamer ... but for me is old player (2003) = pro gamer ... new player (2006) = casual player. Originally by: Sylthi If everyone was at or close to the same "level" then PvP in Eve would become as POINTLESS and BORING as in other MMOs. Why?? ... If everyone has the same "level" in PvP the better player win¦s and not the player who pay longer for his SP in EvE. Why you think if you pay longer for EVE then you are a better player and all new player = "cannon fodder". ... then CCP can make a button in "my account" pay 500$ and i become a GOMODE-Skill/button because i have paid more $ as you Why is it BORING if everyone have the same SP ... the "fitting" is not the same and not all take the same skills for his SP. Tough **? Byte me? Your misconseptions have bugger all to do with it? Boohoo you never herad of eve till recently...sucks to be you basicly. Hands up how many vets in this thread have said in game to a newer player "Cool you can fly <random expensive/big ship>, what can you fit on it? <random crap fitting/wrong size weapons/really ** support skills>" leading to non insured large ship somebody has sunk all thier ISK into going boom? I would say most of us, now how many of us have done it? I know I have when I started <sob my first cruiser it lasted about 30 mins max>. The true learning cost and time IMO. You want equality in SPs? all you are going to be is a target that can't afford to fly your best ships as you are making learning mistakes in bleeding expensive ships and gear. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.02.20 18:22:00 - [230] Originally by: The Fates Cutting training times will 100% anger the existing player base, and I think they know that. Reducing the requirements for some things will do that too if the reductions are too great. It takes so long at this point that I'm stumbling with the issue too, since I'm at the point of considering whether or not to keep playing EvE. In that consideration there is something I'd like to say... The reasons why specialization is important, and the reason why certain things in EvE are relatively rare is due to the extreme costs and time involved in training the skills and aquiring the appropriate resources, and too many changes in this area could be game breaking, imho. I think the entire problem can be solved from a different angle than either of the solutions provided, and that this problem is a symptom rather than the cause. The solution imo lies in changing the game so that there is more to do, and different rewards, and losses, since this is EvE, while you train those longer skills. The problem that results from the current skill and game system arises from players being bored due to a lack of progression... and that, as I've said elsewhere, after isk is no longer an issue to you, or you have no urgent need of it, then skill points is the only character advancement, and there needs to be more... I don't have the right answer, I'm just trying to point in the right direction here. The short answer is reducing training times isn't a good idea, and I don't think that will really solve the underlying problem. Remember, older characters train faster than you from day 1, if you reduce training times, or requirements, they advance even faster than a new player... As far as you catching up to an older player, thats where specialization comes in, but that requires a certain plan, and dedication to that plan, careful research and knowledge of the game, and how you like to play it, all of which a new player is unlikely to have or do right from the start. Perhaps some new things could be put into the game to help new players into a specialized path, while giving them more to do while long skills train, and that might help to solve both issues... as well as helping the worst side of EvE, which is PVE. signed/ I thought that this was a really great post and am a little upset that it appeared to recieve no consideration whatsoever from anyone else posting.

Syrann The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.20 19:17:00 - [231] I'd support lowering the reqs for some of the ships/mods out there. The whole point of the diminishing returns system is exactly that, at level 4 you should be able to do the same as level 5, just level 5 should let you do it better. T2 gear that requires level 5 completely ignores the diminishing returns policy. Instead of a minor gain from level 4->5, you get a huge leap in the form of T2 ships/mods. That's what's at the base of this complaint. Yes, it sucks that some people (myself included) will have been forced to spend a lot more time in training, but that's not a reason to leave things as they are. ------------ It's great to be Ama... Erm crappit, nevermind.
Vasco Falcon Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.02.20 20:31:00 - [232] Originally by: Drakonei Everybody who's already invested time in training them? Thats about it, personally i dont have a problem with people being able to competently fly BS/frigs sooner rather than later, as in being able to play the game with some flexibily and different set ups. Game content shouldnt revolve around skill training, after a month or so in most mmorpgs u can hold your own, 6 months seems to be time it takes to make a decent all rounder "veteran" type in Eve, way too long imo.


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.