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does anyone disagree with halving all training times?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2007.01.24 03:11:00 - [211] Originally by: Tisanta haha so funny Just being an ass 'cause I can't sleep. On topic again, I dont agree with your OP. Originally by: Tisanta i cry when i read your sig...
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.24 03:14:00 - [212] Go away. Little kids this is not for you, WoW is that way -------> Eve is for adults. Stop watering down the game.
Tisanta Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom	Posted - 2007.01.24 03:15:00 - [213] neither do i any more.. lol.. Im the OP kill my thread down with the fool who started it! --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Tripoli XenTech	Posted - 2007.01.24 04:29:00 - [214] j0s and Reiisha understand. Want to half training times? Give me 58 million SP to distribute wherever I want. What happens then? Then, I have every skill in the game trained. ALL OF THEM...and with 35 million skill points to spare. Then what? No. Just no. --- 321 of 341 skills trained.
Bawldeux IV Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.01.24 04:40:00 - [215] I like pie.
nutbar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.01.24 04:42:00 - [216] I wouldn't complain - it'd mean that instead of me having lost over a week worth of training time due to missing scheduling new skills for numerous reasons, I've only lost 1/2 a weeks time instead :D
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.24 06:08:00 - [217] One of the issues that you do run into that drives people who love the idea out of the game is the fact you'll never catch up to some of these 'uberpwnpowergamers' that have been here so long. A graduated system that would speed up character development earlier, then slow you down after say, ten mil sp, might encourage some who despair at how far behind they are to give it a go anyhow. Because there is far too many occurances where all other things being equal, simple time ticking away means this character can pwn you and you don't even get the option to flee the situation (too many almost instant pops IOW). Especially since they bashed so hard on stabs (not that an Amarr or Gallente ever really got to utilize them that much, but still). The three years of history lends to too much tilt to people already established as well as lends to alliances already established. It SHOULD lend SOME tilt. It should not be the 'don't bother even trying' button it usually is for these older guys and gals. ------ Sub ends Feb 13. No you can't have my stuff, why should I reward bullies and phishers?
Jokim	Posted - 2007.01.24 06:20:00 - [218] Originally by: MyDoctor Edited by: MyDoctor on 01/01/2007 11:03:10 I think there should be some kind of advanced-advanced learnings if you have the normal and the advanced skilled to lvl 5, you've the possibility to get 5 points more. That would be a good thing and even fair to the older ones Redicilous idea would force new people to spend EVEN MORE time in learning (thats what free trial people do now btw, start doing learning skills as they basically are required, decide this game reeks of manure because they have no progress, quits the game) I say REMOVE LEARNING SKILLS FROM THE GAME !
Jokim	Posted - 2007.01.24 06:22:00 - [219] Originally by: Lyn30101 One of the issues that you do run into that drives people who love the idea out of the game is the fact you'll never catch up to some of these 'uberpwnpowergamers' that have been here so long. A graduated system that would speed up character development earlier, then slow you down after say, ten mil sp, might encourage some who despair at how far behind they are to give it a go anyhow. Because there is far too many occurances where all other things being equal, simple time ticking away means this character can pwn you and you don't even get the option to flee the situation (too many almost instant pops IOW). Especially since they bashed so hard on stabs (not that an Amarr or Gallente ever really got to utilize them that much, but still). The three years of history lends to too much tilt to people already established as well as lends to alliances already established. It SHOULD lend SOME tilt. It should not be the 'don't bother even trying' button it usually is for these older guys and gals. Its not too bad really I had this mindset when i first started the game too, but realised that its not such a huge deal First of all, theres a limit to how much SP you can have in one branch for it to be useful You couldnt have 70m SP in missiles even if you wanted, there simply arent that many skills Secondly, you get 80% of the benefit of a skill in 20% of the time it takes to get it to lvl 5 The main difference between someone with 3m sp and someone with 50m sp is the 50m person has all the support skills at lvl 5, while the 3m guy has them at 4
The Fates Perkone	Posted - 2007.02.20 11:17:00 - [220] Some really good things said since I posted in this thread last. Like this one. All say EVE is without pro gamer ... If, by pro gamer, you mean the typical version where there is a level playing field and the only difference is the actions, reflexes, computer equipment, and internet connection, then this is correct. EVE is not Quake. OTOH, I think that your "pro gamer" should find that this system is much more challenging. I don't think the bar should be lowered for them. I think if they are as good as they say they are, then they should overcome a lack of skill points with actual skill and intelligence, and prove the "pro" state of their gaming. To put the blame on EVE for this is an excuse. Skill points is often not the deciding factor in a fight. That said, EVE is not commercially viable in the same way as other games and that's a problem of which the developers are probably aware. I don't believe EVE was designed with this sort of competition in mind, and in my mind that is a good thing, in others minds I'm sure it is not, but that doesn't mean you should be down on it becuase it doesn't fit into the cookie cutter impression of professional gaming. To make a game like this fit would require you to re-think some things and realize that its not the same animal. It is, imho, a BETTER one, but thats an opinion. I could add more to other points but they've been beat to death. Any reduction of training times will benefit older players more unless they are limited to the new players, and really if you don't have the patience to train long skills, you won't have the patience to aquire the wealth and connections needed to use them. These concepts go hand in hand. Originally by: Napoleon Bonaparte Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force.

Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:40:00 - [221] perhaos some sort of system where repeatedly fighting npcs made us gain skills...
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:46:00 - [222] Why won't this thread die?! -------- Originally by: Constantine Arcanum most problems can be solved with chloroform.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:45:00 - [223] Yes, half the training times, it's stupid that you have to buy multiple accounts in order to access what you want in the game (mining/production/trading alt, Capital alt, racial pvp specialist/mission runner/ratter, covert alt, etc.). I don't care about all the time I could have saved in the past it's about the future. It allows me to actually have one character and play that instead of the bleeding alts. My skillpoint advantage over others will remain the same and it's not like you'd be able to complete the skill tree (currently 16+ years with max implants, would be cut to 8+ then). Another solution could be to allow training on all character slots on an account, still lame, but at least it wouldnt mean having to buy multiple accounts in order to enjoy all content. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:50:00 - [224] No. But there could be a lot of T2 stuff that didn't require loads of lvl5 skills. If you wanna fly around in an Absolution for example you should be allowed that without having to take lots of very high ranking skills to lvl5. Wanna fly around in that baby with lots of lvl4 skills? Be my guest. I'll pwn your face with my lvl5 skills that I took the time to train as a personal choice. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.02.20 14:29:00 - [225] Originally by: Nifel No. But there could be a lot of T2 stuff that didn't require loads of lvl5 skills. If you wanna fly around in an Absolution for example you should be allowed that without having to take lots of very high ranking skills to lvl5. Wanna fly around in that baby with lots of lvl4 skills? Be my guest. I'll pwn your face with my lvl5 skills that I took the time to train as a personal choice. Agreed. It's kinda dumb that lvl 5s are a requirement and as such most ppl try to get them at some point. It would be a lot better if those lvl 5s would be "that something extra" instead... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
RaTTuS BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.20 14:41:00 - [226] reducce everything by a factor of 10 - there that solves everything .. the only advantage of reduced 1/2 train times is that the longer skilled people whouylc have more advantage - ... -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal \| RaTTuS @ Skills Showroom
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.02.20 16:19:00 - [227] Edited by: DrAtomic on 20/02/2007 16:16:07 Originally by: RaTTuS the only advantage of reduced 1/2 train times is that the longer skilled people whouylc have more advantage - ... Incorrect, what most people fail to see is that halving training times would unlock access to the games content through one character instead of through multiple characters. Fact is that you cannot experience everything in EvE without training for a stupid amount of time, given that the average player plays for 7 months and that access to all content requires around 8 years something is wrong... very wrong. We've accepted specialization too much to the extend that we're screaming no to halving training time only because it would make it easier for others to specialize the way we are specialised. But what people are forgetting is that it would allow us to deversify our specializations and with that unlock access to more content. Any serious 0.0 player nowadays has at least 2 accounts, one pvp account and one carebear account, The truly dedicated are running a third account for capitalships. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2007.02.20 16:30:00 - [228] Originally by: DrAtomic Any serious 0.0 player nowadays has at least 2 accounts, one pvp account and one carebear account, The truly dedicated are running a third account for capitalships.[/quote and this being true is going to motivate ccp to change things? eve is a game for the patient not the fast twitch gamer.
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2007.02.20 16:30:00 - [229] Originally by: Zirze Originally by: Sylthi I couldn't disagree more. Why should it be that you should, in effect, be "rewarded" for not having played the game for as long as others? You have more ISK and Items as a new Player, you have more Standing for Agents, you have more played and viewed as new player ... why you think you have only paid for SP??? New Player have NO time machine to go back to 2003 and start the game ... i never heard about EVE before i started 2006 ... Originally by: Sylthi Why should new players get a leg up that the old players didn't have? Because you have a 3 Years advance in SP and a new player never catch up you?? Because now is now and then is then? Because BPO II Pool are empty and new player have nothing? Because everything is changing? Originally by: Sylthi WHY is it important to have everyone at the same "level"? All say EVE is without pro gamer ... but for me is old player (2003) = pro gamer ... new player (2006) = casual player. Originally by: Sylthi If everyone was at or close to the same "level" then PvP in Eve would become as POINTLESS and BORING as in other MMOs. Why?? ... If everyone has the same "level" in PvP the better player win¦s and not the player who pay longer for his SP in EvE. Why you think if you pay longer for EVE then you are a better player and all new player = "cannon fodder". ... then CCP can make a button in "my account" pay 500$ and i become a GOMODE-Skill/button because i have paid more $ as you Why is it BORING if everyone have the same SP ... the "fitting" is not the same and not all take the same skills for his SP. Tough **? Byte me? Your misconseptions have bugger all to do with it? Boohoo you never herad of eve till recently...sucks to be you basicly. Hands up how many vets in this thread have said in game to a newer player "Cool you can fly <random expensive/big ship>, what can you fit on it? <random crap fitting/wrong size weapons/really ** support skills>" leading to non insured large ship somebody has sunk all thier ISK into going boom? I would say most of us, now how many of us have done it? I know I have when I started <sob my first cruiser it lasted about 30 mins max>. The true learning cost and time IMO. You want equality in SPs? all you are going to be is a target that can't afford to fly your best ships as you are making learning mistakes in bleeding expensive ships and gear. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.02.20 18:22:00 - [230] Originally by: The Fates Cutting training times will 100% anger the existing player base, and I think they know that. Reducing the requirements for some things will do that too if the reductions are too great. It takes so long at this point that I'm stumbling with the issue too, since I'm at the point of considering whether or not to keep playing EvE. In that consideration there is something I'd like to say... The reasons why specialization is important, and the reason why certain things in EvE are relatively rare is due to the extreme costs and time involved in training the skills and aquiring the appropriate resources, and too many changes in this area could be game breaking, imho. I think the entire problem can be solved from a different angle than either of the solutions provided, and that this problem is a symptom rather than the cause. The solution imo lies in changing the game so that there is more to do, and different rewards, and losses, since this is EvE, while you train those longer skills. The problem that results from the current skill and game system arises from players being bored due to a lack of progression... and that, as I've said elsewhere, after isk is no longer an issue to you, or you have no urgent need of it, then skill points is the only character advancement, and there needs to be more... I don't have the right answer, I'm just trying to point in the right direction here. The short answer is reducing training times isn't a good idea, and I don't think that will really solve the underlying problem. Remember, older characters train faster than you from day 1, if you reduce training times, or requirements, they advance even faster than a new player... As far as you catching up to an older player, thats where specialization comes in, but that requires a certain plan, and dedication to that plan, careful research and knowledge of the game, and how you like to play it, all of which a new player is unlikely to have or do right from the start. Perhaps some new things could be put into the game to help new players into a specialized path, while giving them more to do while long skills train, and that might help to solve both issues... as well as helping the worst side of EvE, which is PVE. signed/ I thought that this was a really great post and am a little upset that it appeared to recieve no consideration whatsoever from anyone else posting.

Syrann The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.20 19:17:00 - [231] I'd support lowering the reqs for some of the ships/mods out there. The whole point of the diminishing returns system is exactly that, at level 4 you should be able to do the same as level 5, just level 5 should let you do it better. T2 gear that requires level 5 completely ignores the diminishing returns policy. Instead of a minor gain from level 4->5, you get a huge leap in the form of T2 ships/mods. That's what's at the base of this complaint. Yes, it sucks that some people (myself included) will have been forced to spend a lot more time in training, but that's not a reason to leave things as they are. ------------ It's great to be Ama... Erm crappit, nevermind.
Vasco Falcon Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.02.20 20:31:00 - [232] Originally by: Drakonei Everybody who's already invested time in training them? Thats about it, personally i dont have a problem with people being able to competently fly BS/frigs sooner rather than later, as in being able to play the game with some flexibily and different set ups. Game content shouldnt revolve around skill training, after a month or so in most mmorpgs u can hold your own, 6 months seems to be time it takes to make a decent all rounder "veteran" type in Eve, way too long imo.


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